Would Turk be Better Off the Bench??
by PSWINZ on Feb 21, 2012 11:25 AM EST
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Over the last few games I have really started to think that we would be a much better team with Turk coming off the bench. I know he is our best passer but to me it just looks like the ball sticks every time he touches it. I think having him come off the bench would give us a much better scoring punch. Let's say instead we start Earl Clark in his place for size on the perimeter and defensive capabilities.
Having Hedo come off the bench would provide a scoring punch for our second unit which definitely struggles at times. His defense wouldn't be as big an issue against other teams second units. It would take some of the pressure off JJ and provide better shots for both. Also, when Dwight goes out you could have a very decent lineup with Davis (5), Anderson/clark (4), Hedo (3), JJ (2) and Duhon (1). It just seems to make more sense.
When Turk used to come off the bench for us back in the day he was a reliable scorer for the second unit. This is what got him the starting spot. It seems now that he is a liability. he's taking forced shots against starting defenses. Put him in as 6th man and come the 4th quarter he will still have gas in the tank and might just bring some of his old Magic back. He will create better shots and drive more without Dwight in the paint. It could free up JJ and overall provide us with a very lethal and sizeable bench!
Current Starters (when healthy......)
Dwight
Jameer
Ryan
Turk
JRich
My Proposed Starters are the above with Clark instead of Turk. This would make our second unit look like this...
Davis
Anderson/Clark
JJ
Duhon
Turk
I'm interested to know what other fans think. Just seems more logical and balanced to me.
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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i want to see more of harper and liggins!
by mrgodfrey on Feb 21, 2012 12:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Would Clark be able to handle starter minutes?
Would this move hurt the starters chemistry?
It takes a 6/7 assist guy off the starting unit composed of
Howard who only take hook shots/dunks
Anderson who leads in attempted 3s
Nelson is on career lows
Clark won’t be a good shooter
It would be hard for this team to not force shots w/o a distributor
Each year I hope the Warriors, Colts, Cavs, and the Magic get better yet the opposite happens.
by BobInBlue on Feb 21, 2012 2:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You're starting Earl Clark.
/end thread
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 21, 2012 2:24 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Rec'd. Going by that my post is 'one too many'.
Learning is not compulsory, but have you learned anything today?
I’m starting Earl for D. I think he would also drive to the basket, which we desperately need! Turk is quite suspect and lets anyone stroll to the basket. Coming off the bench he would probably score more and it would simply increase Jameer and JRich’s assists. Most of which come from post passes to Dwight right now anyway. Bottom line, our bench play is a problem and we need to mix things up. Our starting unit would operate just as well with Turk coming in as 6th man in my opinion. However, our second unit would be much more effective. This is why we keep blowing big leads… the starters go out and the other team gets right back in the game.
Phil
Most of these guys aren't to high on Clark
Regardless of how well he plays or what he brings to the table. Honestly i would rather see Clark,Harper, Liggins, and Orton more on the floor then Duhon, Glen, and Q.
No. Seriously. You're starting Earl Clark.
PSWINZ, don’t think that this is me posting that I think your idea is THAT bad. I’m just saying, we’ve hit a point where the question was asked, should we start Earl Clark over Hedo.
I think I need a drink.
Have you seen Earl on defense this year? He is ballin
4 of our starters are strict offensive players. Then our bench has guys like Davis,Duhon and Earl all coming in at the same time which kills our offense. Playing a defensive player like Earl as a starter would give us more balance as a team
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Feb 22, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Our starters still struggle with offense, above all.
And in order to fix that, you’re going to take out the second most important facilitator on the team and replace him with Earl Clark? REALLY? That would fix absolutely nothing.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 22, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How do you know that
It may give us the type jump we need. Just because you say play Clark, doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea.
Yeah, putting an offensive black hole into the lineup tends to help offense, right?
That makes total sense.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 22, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Earl Clark misses more shots than anyone on the team.
He’s shooting 35%. Not from 3, but PERIOD. That’s worse than Duhon. That’s worse than Glen Davis. He never passes, ever (his assist , which is how often he’s assisted teammates’ FGs while on the floor, is 4, the worst on the team). He doesn’t draw fouls. His offensive rating is 83, putrid and the worst on the team (non-Ish Smith/Justin Harper Division). His TS% of 37.7% is again the worst on the team, and it is worse by far than even Gilbert Arenas’s darkest moments last year.
So, to review, if Clark gets the ball, he’s almost certainly shooting instead of passing, and he’s terrible at shooting, and he’s probably not going to draw a foul on that shot. Of the people who play meaningful minutes, Earl Clark is the worst offensive player on the Orlando Magic.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 22, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
(That should be assist % in the first parentheses; I don’t know why that didn’t format right.)
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 22, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm Glen shooting 35% too
With 3 times as many as shots and twice the minutes from Clark. Does that mean Glen is a black hole. He’s also the worse player on the team so far. Clark brings much better D. Also what does assists have to do with Clark’s position? He does pass the ball, but doesn’t get assists. Just because you don’t like the guy, doesn’t mean he’s bad.
This is just silly. I'm really baffled by your opinion of Clark, here.
Glen is having a bad season, sure, but right now there is just no way that Clark makes more sense than him. History suggests he’ll positively regress at some point.
Glen Davis is, from a career perspective better than Earl Clark in FG%, FT%, TR%, APG, SPG, and PPG. Clark is superior in 3PT%, which doesn’t mean much for either of them.
And there’s only a difference of 2 years in their career, right?
I don’t care for Glen Davis, personally-I think he’s kind of a jerk.
But just because I don’t like the guy, doesn’t mean he’s bad at basketball.
I can’t understand what empirical evidence you would have for saying that Clark should get more minutes. And the argument that he’s better than Davis does not stand up. I guess you could say, “I predict that he’ll be better than Davis”- but at this point, there is no evidence to suggest that will be the case.
"There's a fine line between 'aging vet' and 'has-been.' Otis Smith treads it more often than most." - EnnBee
Clark hasn't gotten the chance Glen has
Also i’m stating facts. I haven’t said he’s be the best. But he does deserve some minutes on the floor. I have no hate against Glen, but he’s been bad, yet Clark gets more heat.
In their first three seasons, EC = 9.6 minutes per game, GD = 17.47 minutes per game. I think there is a reason that Glen has gotten more of a chance.
I didn’t say state facts. “Water is wet” is a fact. I said provide evidence to support your position.
Your post above makes it sound like Clark is better than Glen, or at least as good as Glen.
Clark only gets heat when people suggest that he should start over Glen Davis.
Fin.
"There's a fine line between 'aging vet' and 'has-been.' Otis Smith treads it more often than most." - EnnBee
I can't provide that much evidence on Clark being better then Glen
Because he hasn’t played as much Glen. but i can say his defense is better then Glen’s. Offensively Glen has the edge (not by much with me), but i like Clark on the floor for defensive purposes and energy.
Glen makes three pointers. He's the winner
"If Dwight spent more time practicing and less time b!tching, then maybe he’d be playing a little better." -My Mom
i'd rather figure out a 2nd unit that doesnt feature Duhon
that will improve our 2nd unit greatly
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Feb 21, 2012 6:55 PM EST reply actions
best reply here......
i mean having poohon as our second unit PG is so depressing. Every time he comes on the floor the dynamics change and my confidence in our offence quickly evaporates.
It would be nice to see him play well on a regular basis but its way to hit and miss with him. I just don’t trust the guy to run any kind of offence for us.
You're crazy
Start Clark over Turk? wow. Starting JJ over J Rich is a better idea. If you start Clark, you’d have to start Wafer to balance out the offense, but wafer’s defense would cancel our clark’s D, so you might as well just do what SVG is doing.
And I like the 1 on 1 for all-star weekend idea. How sweet would it be to see Durant vs Rose?
I like it.
Plus hedo is getting abused by the athletic SF’s he plays night in night out. He can defintely be the primary ball handler when all he is going up against is a 2nd unit SF. My team would be a little different
Starters: PG – Nelson, SG – J-Rich, SF – Clark, PF- Anderson, C- Howard
Hedo comes in for Nelson, JJ comes in for J-Rich, and Wafer comes in to defend PG’s. Duhon is where he belongs becuase Hedo will be the primary 2nd unit ball handler with Wafer giving him help if needed.
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
Makes the 2nd unit solid and it keeps the ball Out of Duhon's hands.
Not the ideal situation, but the Magic needs consistency in it’s starting 5. And thats the last thing Turk is. Clark would give us defensive energy. Defense is the best offense. Plus, this move would give Jameer an identity. With Dwight getting his touches, Ryno jackin threes, JRich doing this and that, Jameer can’t do what he does best.
by Memphissleek on Feb 22, 2012 12:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Plus Clark gives us another shot blocker on the court at the same time as Howard. offenses will be shooting alot of jumpers
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Feb 22, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Glad You All (Pretty Much) Agree!
I just think it would provide a bit more consistency to our bench play. Turk used to be so great off the bench. Maybe it would spark some energy and make him earn that 10+ mil a year.
Phil
I count...3 people that agree with you.
And Turk hasn’t regularly come off the bench since six seasons ago…before this team was any good.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 22, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
The year we went to the finals he came off the bench for the first portion of the season. He earned his spot and played hard to keep it. He got the big contract and has shown next to 0 effort since. Note the multiple trades in the last three seasons…
Phil
by PSWINZ on Feb 23, 2012 12:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Excellent job counting by the way….
Phil
by PSWINZ on Feb 23, 2012 12:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Actually Turk has never come off the bench while with SVG coaching the Magic
Additionally, he started every game the year before SVG arrived, so no, he wasn’t on the bench ever in the year we went to the finals. Just saying.
I also disagree about starting Clark over Turk, but that’s fine.
If the Magic must trade Dwight, Hedo better stay. He needs to retire a Magic.
by funny80sguy on Feb 23, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Hm, interesting, because the facts say that Hedo started 73 of 73 games in 2006-7, all 82 games 2007-8, and 77 out of 77 games in 2008-9 (the Finals year). So, excellent job counting.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 23, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
34 comments on this FanPost, counting this one in? It's absurd ... stop this insanity.
Learning is not compulsory, but have you learned anything today?
I don't know any turkish franchise players that come off the bench.
I don’t know any turkish olympian to come off the bench.
I don’t know any turkish all-star come off the bench.
I don’t know any turkish former MVP to come off the bench.
I don’t know any turkish three time scoring champ come off the bech.
I don’t know any turkish 1rst team all NBA come off the bench.
Why the hell Hidayet Turkoglu ?!
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Point Blank...
Earl has not been given a chance. Hedo has. Earl is a better defender and has more size. The second unit needs more balanced scoring and duhon could realllllly use some help bringing the ball up court.
As far as Glen… He comes off the bench because he’s the closest thing we have to a back up center. Earl doesn’t have the body mass to effectively cover other centers. He’s a solid PF and a big SF. Glen definitely shouldn’t start over Anderson and that would b the only option.
Overall, Turk needs to earn his spot again. He’s been a huge disappointment since his new contract. Earl deserves more minutes in the second unit before starting but deserves a chance none the less. In the long run, D wins championships and Turk offers next to none.
Phil
by PSWINZ on Feb 23, 2012 12:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
So despite the fact that his track record is better and that he's the best SF on the team,
Hedo has to earn his playing time, but Earl Clark doesn’t? Do you know how you earn playing time? By making the most out of limited time. So, in his limited time, Earl Clark has flashed exactly nothing. For all the Hedo hate you have, he’s playing circles around Earl Clark. You fundamentally don’t understand why this team loses – it loses when the offense stagnates, not usually because it’s getting torched defensively.
Hedo shoots much better, has more shots in his arsenal, creates better, and isn’t as bad at defense as you think: Turk’s D rating is 103 compared to Clark at 98, with lower being better, but that’s honestly not that much difference. It’s definitely not enough to make up for the fact that Clark’s Offensive Rating is 82 compared to Turk’s 99, where higher is better and there’s a huge difference between 99 and 82.
Overall, your arguments make no sense and would make the team worse.
Fin.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 23, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have a feeling the 2nd paragraph will go over your head, so I'll phrase it differently:
What those numbers mean is that it is estimated that over the course of 100 possessions, Turk would give up 5 more points than Clark would. It also means that over those same 100 possessions, Turk would be responsible for 17 more points than Clark would. Ergo, the Magic would be 17-5 = 12 points better with Turkoglu in the lineup instead of Clark.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 23, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
The last sentence of your first paragraph...
… when you’re talking about how the Magic lose when their offense stagnates, definitely makes solid sense.
When the Magic had that 5 losses in 6 games stretch last month, they allowed an average of just 89 points a game, which is really good. Their offense, though, averaged a mere 77 points a game in that span.
Chicago Blackhawks... back on the winning track... keep it going
Chicago Bears... entering a new era with Phil Emery as GM
"Orlando Pinstriped Post... the best, most modest Magic blog on the planet"
by Mike from Illinois on Feb 23, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
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