Playing around with some trade thoughts, wanted an Orlando Opinion
Hi Guys,
I know you guys probably hate any discussion involving a dwight howard trade, so i apologize in advance.
I was considering some trade thoughts off a current rumor (btw im a bulls fan) where supposedly rose asked the bulls organization to try to trade for pau gasol. Whether or not there is truth to this rumor is untrue, it was just something that got me thinking of possible scenerios of trades. I try to be an objective trade creator, which is hard to do mainly because i am a bulls fan first. At any rate i came up with a trade to which a Laker fan responded that he liked. I'm fairly certain the magic fanbase itself will not like this trade idea for obvious reasons, however i was wondering if regardless you think there was a chance the Magic organization would go ahead with this trade or if it was within the realm of possibiliity of happening or even eventually becoming fair. I ask you to be as objective in your reasonings as possible, and to go ahead and list and faults or possible corrections. I thank you in advance, the idea comes after the jump with a link to the blogabull page where i first posted the trade so you can read some of the comments regarding the entire subject.
Again thanks for your time (and a side thanks to mike from illinois who sometimes provides awesome statistical facts to blogabull, its pretty awesome and im glad he gets a ton of recognition on this blog)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7puh6kjthe following is taken from my comment that i posted on blogabull with the link
Lakers do what lakers do, they pull off a huge blockbuster trade that shakes around several pieces but also means they walk away with the best player in the trade…dwight howard. They pick up boozer, another big name, in hopes that chicago fans were right that howard could cover boozers mistakes. Its certainly a win now kind of move, but boozers bound to get worse within two years… Lakers, in exchange for getting howard, also pick up some putrid contracts in both boozer and turkey glue. They get cj watson who is a pg that would work well in the kobe system. A poor mans mo williams like player….
Magic will be getting flak from the media about the trade, people will suggest all they did was get rid of a problematic situation, but they wont realize how the move helps in the long run. Magic get bynum, who may not be dwight howard, but has been playing like a top 5 center undoubtedly. Him matched with ryan anderson is a ton of offensive power, surrounded by other shooters. Magic also recieve asik, who defensively keeps the interior strong when bynum needs rest, has a small contract, and reminds them of gortat or something. They also recieve matt barnes, a nice expiring defensive wing. Van gundy might actually enjoy these new toys, but getting rid of turkey glues contract is probably their biggest gain. Obviously they probably get both a bulls and lakers future draft pick. ASSETS!!!
For the bulls, its a quiet move, but they end up getting pau gasol without really getting rid of the their beloved core. Fisher is a bulls type, professional defensive (theoretically) smart pg, who can fill in for that coach/player role when scalabrine is finally promoted to assistant the next year. Mike james will probably have to be signed (i predict this will happen) at any rate.
here is the link to the blogabull page with the original comment, i made it so it jumps straight to the comment so you can read the replies if you want.
thank you all for your time, i also apologize for the length of the post.
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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Given two of those are expiring contracts...
We’re giving up Howard and Turk just for Andrew Bynum?
No thanks.
hmmm
going into this offseason you would have a team of
nelson/duhon
jj/wafer
richardson/clark/q. rich
davis/orton
bynum
as well as being11.5 million UNDER the cap.
here is a list of nba free agents for this off season, by position
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-nba-free-agents
since ryan anderson is restricted you can, and probably will sign him and match any offer, and you probably should since ryan anderson matched with bynum is a nice varied offensive power from your bigs. You could use the 11 mil you are under the cap and offer a nice contract to eric gordonm use the mle on resigning omer asik as your backup big, and retain anderson, plus you would have an orlando draft pick, a lakers draft pick, and a chicago draft pick ( i would assume the laker draft pick would be this year, and the bulls next year, with another laker draft pick for the year after)
you could find a nice sf in the draft and package the lakers pick and maybe pick up terrence ross (a sf with great shooting abililty and solid defense)
so….possibly have a team of
Nelson/Duhon
Gordon/Redick/wafer
J.Rich/rookie/q.rich
Anderson/davis/orton
Bynum/asik
thats a pretty strong team man, and you have plenty of assets to trade to bolster that sf position.
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Orlando are only 11m under the cap
If Anderson signs a deal at or around the qualifying offer.
Which he won’t. Because someone will offer him $10m and the Magic will have to match. And then they’ve probably only got the MLE to offer Gordon (or whoever).
So their net trade gain is Bynum, a MLE player and a couple of lousy draft picks.
For the best center in a generation.
Uh…no thanks?
by eltharion_doa on Feb 20, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
yea sorry about that, i got my restricted free agent rules confused somehow
let me ask you, what would you change to this trade, or ideally what would be the trade you would be looking for ( doesnt have to involve bulls or lakers)
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Two lottery picks
And a potential star on his rookie deal still. Take Turk, and throw in expiring deals as needed.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 20, 2012 11:03 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Do you think that LA would really do this?
They seem adamantly against giving up Bynum and Gasol together. I know that you have them taking back Boozer to deal with that, but then that seems like an awful lot of salary to take on.
I’m not familiar with LA’s money situation, other than knowing that they spend a ton of cash.
As to how this plays out for the Magic, well, I’d say no-but that’s just simply because I am not a Bynum fan. If he’s part of the deal, well, maybe-but if he’s the main piece, absolutely not. My three reasons: 1. obvious bias on my part (I just don’t like the guy), 2. he’s a petulant child with behavior issues (see him knocking down Barea, etc.), 3. dependability (he’s not hurt now, but he’ll be hurt again.)
I think getting Bynum as you’ve outlined it makes us one of those 7-8 East playoffs teams-consistently mediocre, and not winning many draft picks (though I don’t know how the picks you mentioned from LA/CHI would play out). It may be a better idea to just genuinely suck for a little while.
Thanks for your post.
"There's a fine line between 'aging vet' and 'has-been.' Otis Smith treads it more often than most." - EnnBee
one of the la guys was lurking and said he liked the trade for all parties
but was just unsure if orlando would do it, which is what led me to posting the trade here…..
I tried to figure out how to shed as much salary for orlando while they maintain bynum, who may not be anywhere near as good as dwight defensively, but at least in terms of offensive talent is a bit more varied. I hate that trade machine cant include a few simple tweaks like including draft picks (how hard is it to add a little slot that shows what picks each team has?) and salary info post trade.
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by piccolomair on Feb 20, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
To Boston: Steve Nash, JJ Redick, Robin Lopez
To Phoenix: Pau Gasol, Steve Blake, Daniel Orton
To Los Angeles: Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, Channing Frye
To Orlando: Andrew Bynum, Rajon Rondo, Jermaine O’neal, Avery Bradley
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 11:30 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This
I like this. But I don’t see how we could pull this off.
by winteriscoming on Feb 20, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
If the Magic want to trade Howard and the Laker will part with Bynum and Gasol then the rest is pretty easy.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Can't see the Celtics accepting Redick and Nash for Rondo
by eltharion_doa on Feb 21, 2012 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not.
But the Celtics aren’t going to be able to ride the Big Three into the ground and then turn around and rebuild around Rondo. They know this. That is the reason his name keeps popping up in trade scenarios.
The other reason is that even as good as he is distributing the ball and scoring himself his poor outside shooting hurts the overall team offense. I mean, obviously Rondo helps the Boston offense overall. But when he doesn’t have the ball, during Pierce isolations et cetera he hurts them.
Nash is still statistically better than Rondo. And his fantastic outside shooting makes him dangerous off the ball while not giving up anything in terms of passing, scoring, and playmaking.
So you could argue that for the purposes of competing for a championship the next two years Nash > Rondo.
Lopez is younger, more active, and more durable than O’neal at this point. Lopez > O’neal
JJ Redick is lightyears beyond Avery Bradley. Redick > Bradley
So the 15-16 Boston Celtics who don’t care about anything but winning one more championship get offered a trade that ostensibly makes them a better team and gives them a better chance of winning a championship. While not only maintaining their salary cap space but increasing their space.
I don’t think they turn it down.
Maybe they have to get that Dallas 1st rnd pick from LA or a 2nd rnd from somebody, but, this is pretty plausible.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 21, 2012 5:14 AM EST up reply actions
They may not wish to build around Rondo, no
But if they do decide to ship him, they can get an awful lot more than 3 months of Steve Nash, and JJ.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2012 4:04 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
If we made any trade it should be with Golden State, Dwight and maybe some other player on Orlando like Hedo for Curry, Lee and Thompson
Go Jags Go Magic
It involves Golden State, so Otis is on board.
"There's a fine line between 'aging vet' and 'has-been.' Otis Smith treads it more often than most." - EnnBee
by Redfield on Feb 20, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
im bias, but certainly it is not as bad as you think if
the magic recieve(cha1strd via bulls, which is certainly a lottery pick) then 2 1st rd by lakers via own pick and dallas.. so that’s bynum+asik+a lottery pick(high probability of top 3 pick)+two 1st rd pick. -i am almost certain that bulls and lakers will do the trade, but it is also not that bad for the magic.
by letsgolal on Feb 20, 2012 12:21 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
getting Curry, Lee, and Thompson would be a better deal than that one though in my opinion
Go Jags Go Magic
i guess im sort of also assuming dwight howards say in this
and he probably wants to either be in laker land or new jersey, due to the injury to lopez new jersey seems out of the question, and the lakers just invested in this highly expensive local tv plan which is a bad investment unless the lakers are planning on fielding a team worth watching asap. most pundits seem to suggest dwight wants to go to la and will go to the lakers….
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Curry, Lee, Thompson doesn't work
Dwight said he wouldn’t re-sign with Golden State when the Magic played them earlier this year.
Lee doesn’t make sense to acquire because he has a huge contract and plays PF, which is the same position as Ryan Anderson.
It just doesn’t make sense for anyone.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
btw i kinda like your 4 team 12 player trade
too bad it doesnt include the bulls, but it does make sense for all parties, not sure if its your own or if its been a ciculating rumor, but i feel it can go down….but bias dictates that i wish the bulls were somehow in their to nab pau
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Golden state said they would give up a lot for a big man like Dwight Howard, without him signing a new contract first. They think when he gets there he they can persuade him
The players make sense for the magic, Lee can play Center and Power Foward and Stephen Curry is a good point guard we can use. Thompson also can be very good.
Go Jags Go Magic
Lee can't play Center.
Lee is a 6’9" finesse power forward. He played a little center for the Knicks when they were incredibly bad.
I don’t see why when trading the consensus 2nd best player on earth and you have the whole of basketballdom at your beck and call… you decide to create the dream frontcourt of David Lee and Ryan Anderson. I know we can do better.
There’s no championship window with that team.
Lee is 5 years older than Anderson/Curry.
So the Magic would pay a lot of money to Anderson/Lee/Curry and that core would be good enough to keep us out of good draft position, but nowhere near good enough for a championship.
Too expensive to sign any elite free agents.
And when Anderson/Curry are peaking Lee would be on the decline, same as Turkoglu now.
Senseless, small, unathletic team that would take too many long jumpers and play too little defense.
I vote, Nay.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I guess your right we can do better but what is your favorite trade that you think we can get for Dwight
Go Jags Go Magic
Dude... I don't know...
That’s the million dollar question, right?
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
i think orlando would get the charlotte pick
as well as a future first from the bulls, and definetly every pick the lakers can possibly give up
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its lottery protected this year
its top 10 protected next year
its top 3 protected the year after that
after that its unprotected….
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This trade is kind of a weird to me.
I mean, I kind of agree that Gasol is an upgrade over Boozer. But Boozer is playing pretty good ball for the Bulls who are one of the best teams in the league. I don’t think you upset the chemistry on a highly performing team for a minor upgrade.
Especially if you have to give up a draft pick like that.
The talent difference between Boozer and Gasol is less than a lottery pick.
Which means that if this trade was made and the Bulls lost out on a reasonably high draft pick. Then it was a mistake for the Bulls to trade for Gasol (who is a year older than Boozer) and give up that pick.
The other side of it is that given the protections present on the pick the Bobcats have two years to become somewhat mediocre and get out of the lottery or at least late in the lottery. Which is certainly possible seeing as how they are about to have a very very high pick in a very very strong draft and have tons of cap space.
If that happens and the pick that is eventually conveyed isn’t that high then the Magic did end up pretty much trading Howard for Bynum straight up.
It just seems like too big a gamble for either team to bite. I think the Magic would look for more certainty in a Howard trade than a pick “somewhere between 5 and 15” 3 years from now.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
the problem with boozer is more than just numbers
defensively pau is putting up numbers head and shoulders above boozer when standardized by per36. Offensively pau gives the bulls a better post presence, something boozer has struggled to be all year mainly due to nagging injuries. Boozers ineffective defense has also added more stress to noah’s game. The only player who can really bring out the best in boozer is probably howard, because howard is the only player in the league who can on his own turn a bad defense into a great defense (of course you guys knew that already) and where boozer has aged into a less physical offensive player, howard is the exact opposite. Boozer and howard would actually be a nice pairing, as howard is the ideal frontcourt mate for boozer.
Lottery picks are nice, but the bulls are in this rare window of win now. Not because of rose, who is still young, but more because of the role players around rose. Deng had his first injury free season last season, and this year he got injured again. I say he only has about 3-4 years AT MOST at playing at an all-star level.
The bulls role players like korver and rip all have contracts that expire within 2 years, there is a chance with age and other opportunities they decide to play elsewhere. In order to rebuild tomorrow the bulls have to be competing for championships today. Being an elite team in the regular season but constantly coming up short in the playoffs to the heat isnt good for attracting players. And keeping boozer any longer, well his trade value is probably going to continue to decline and the bulls could amnesty him but then finding someone good enough to replace him just by signing is far more difficult than trading for one especially when you have several assets.
Essentially the bulls assets are in their prime right now to be traded, and in no more than 2 years no one will want them.
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I pretty much agree with you on all accounts.
Except I don’t really think that Gasol is a better defensive player than Boozer.
I mean, don’t get me wrong Boozer isn’t a very good defender. But you basically have Boozer who is an undersized 4 that plays with a lot of effort defensively but can’t quite overcome his lack of size and athleticism. And then there’s Gasol who is an oversized 4, plays with almost no defensive energy, but uses his length to bother/block some shots, and also has very limited mobility.
I see it as kind of a wash. Gasol is no all-defensive team type player. And age is causing his decline at the same rate as Boozer and Deng.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
dude....
boozer has no effort on defense at all, i mean…..im not kidding its bad man…..his idea of defense is screaming at his opponent…..theres a game today, find league pass or an illegal stream and watch boozer….
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I just watched the Bulls/Celtics and he played very hard defensively.
Kind of dumb. But very hard.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 20, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
I know Bulls' fans are very frustrated with Boozer because of his erratic defense
…and Kendall Gill of CSN always kills Boozer on the post-game shows when Boozer’s defense leads to a Bulls’ loss.
Despite all that, Boozer is actually having a heck of a year offensively, averaging around 16 points on over 53% shooting. He and Noah also have been playing much better lately on the offensive end when they’re on the court at the same time.
He’s well-liked on the team and a good locker room guy. There’s no way the Bulls trade Boozer mid-season and risk disrupting team chemistry.
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by Mike from Illinois on Feb 20, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
I am against trading Dwight except for cap relief and promising draft picks, and that happens only with teams under salary cap, which are not going to be good any time soon. And under no condition I want an overrated player, Bynum, in Magic uniform.
Learning is not compulsory, but have you learned anything today?
I'd take Bynum in a S&T with the Lakers
If there was no way to convince Howard to stay. If the alternatives are trading him to LA for Bynum or seeing him walk to Jersey for nothing, I’ll take Bynum.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 21, 2012 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
The problem of trading with LA is that we are receiving an unreliable/risky player with draft picks, if any, wroth effectively zilch.
I am not advocating to let him walk for nothing if a good trade presents itself – still NJ is the best – whereby we could dump salary and receive draft picks which, even with Dwight there, are worth something. Even if Dwight walks, it’s not the end of the world … the least would be that we could create cap space for a max player of our own choosing.
Learning is not compulsory, but have you learned anything today?
Honestly, I am doubtful the Nets are even really willing to trade for Dwight.
While Dallas is a threat to challenge the Nets, moving 34 year old Shaun Marion’s contract in the summertime with two years left at (8.4m and 9.1m) will be very difficult. If they manage to do that, then Dallas does have a few incentives working in their favor.
But in the end Dallas can’t compete with the upside, newness and attention that Brooklyn promises.
BROOKLYN:
Deron Williams 27 / Jordan Farmar 25 (2012 PO)
Marshon Brooks 23 / Anthony Morrow 26
? / ?
? / Jordan Williams 24
Dwight Howard 26 / Johan Petro 26
+ what will very likely be a top 5 lottery pick
* Nets will have to disclaim rights to Humphries, Lopez, James & S Williams to make cap room for 2 max contracts. Or trade them for draft picks.
I get what you're saying, but I think the ownership of Dallas and their championship offsets the upside, newness, and attention in Brooklyn.
Whether you like Cuban or not, he’s a committed owner. Hard to tell how the Russian will pan out at this point.
"There's a fine line between 'aging vet' and 'has-been.' Otis Smith treads it more often than most." - EnnBee
Deron Williams > Dirk Nowitzki
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 21, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but Deron Williams and Nowitzki is greater than Deron Williams alone
If the Magic must trade Dwight, Hedo better stay. He needs to retire a Magic.
There is absolutely no chance that Howard and Williams both go to Dallas.
That is a media fabrication to have something crazy to talk about.
Dallas, even if they TO Odom and Amnesty Haywood and renounce every free agent they have will only be $20.3M-ish under the cap.
Which is enough for one max contract… or two $10.15M contracts. Anyone who thinks Williams & Howard are signing for Hedo Turkoglu money for the chance to attend Dirk “I don’t think I should be and all-star” Nowitzki’s 35th birthday party and be a part of the jersey retirement ceremony in a couple years… is out of their gawddamn minds.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 22, 2012 2:39 AM EST up reply actions
That is a valid point, but one needs to consider that if NJ doesn't initiate a trade - before March 15 trade deadline - they are risking that Dwight may be traded elsewhere.
Learning is not compulsory, but have you learned anything today?
Yeah but the Nets know he will just sign with them in the summer
The only two cities that can feasibly lure him to resigning after a trade are NY (Knicks and Nets) and LA (Lakers and Clippers).
Whatever trade the Magic might have with the Nets will be adjusted for that.
I think the Knicks are a team that could be a wildcard in this whole scenario.
If they look like crap w/Carmelo in the lineup, its not a stretch that they start considering trading him. Stealing Dwight from the Nets would be a huge win for the Knicks organization with the Nets creeping in on their turf….and that incentive could work very well in the Magic’s favor.
Dallas can certainly sign both Howard and Williams to max contracts.
I was wrong about Shaun Marion being the player they had to move.
Next summer there are four contracts on the Mavericks books that they can not be fully in control of:
Dirk Nowitski: 2012/13 = 20.1 (2013/14 22.7 exp)
Shaun Marion: 2012/13 = 8.4
Rodrigue Beauboix: 2012/13 = 2.2
Dominique Jones: 2012/13 = 1.3
• total salary summer 2012 = 32.0
• 2012/2013 salary cap = 58.1
• available cap space: 26.1
• max salary for 7-9 year vets – new contract = 15.5 (x2 for D Williams/D Howard)
• 30.1 needed cap space – 26.1 available = 4.0 amount that needs to be cleared
In other words, the Mavericks can give both Williams and Howard the max salary available if they trade Beaubois + Jones for an (125% -150% value) expiring contract Which is why it is being reported that Beaubois is being shopped by Dallas (ESPN).
All other contracts can be removed by them:
Jason Terry: Renounce the rights to contract which expires summer 2012 to void 16.7 cap hold
Jason Kidd: Renounce the rights to contract which expires summer 2012 to void 15.2 cap hold
Lamar Odom: Decline team option for 12-13 season + Renounce rights to void cap hold
Brendan Haywood: Amnesty the remaining 3y / $37.8
Vince Carter: Decline team options for (2012-13) and (2013-14) + Renounce rights to void cap hold
Ian Mahinmi: Renounce the rights to contract which expires summer 2012 to void 0.9 cap hold
Brandan Wright: Decline team option for 12-13 season + Renounce rights to void cap hold
Sean Williams: Decline team option for 12-13 season + Renounce rights to void cap hold
Brian Cardinal: Renounce the rights to contract which expires summer 2012 to void 0.9 cap hold
Delonte West: Renounce the rights to contract which expires summer 2012 to void 0.9 cap hold
+Misc : Renounce the rights to several previous exp. contracts to void all cap holds
- Declined team options must occur by June 30, 2012
- NBA season ends (for a 7 game finals series) on June 26, 2012
*Jason Kidd and Jason Terry will very likely re sign for vet minimum to end their careers in Dallas. It is even conceivable that Vince Carter returns for vet minimum (if him and Dwight are ok).
Potential Roster:
Derek Williams / Jason Kidd
Vince Carter / Jason Terry
S Marion / ?
Dirk Novitski / ?
Dwight Howard / ?
I'm no great fan of Bynum either
But the dude can ball and has tons of value, even with the injury and character history. Big guys who play D are always valued important the league, even more so if they’re good defensively too.
Even as trade bait, Bynum’s way better than nothing.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2012 4:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I know Im dreaming, but what about this trade, chances of Dwight Staying increase
Magic give
Nelson, Redick & Orton
Boston gives
Rondo and Wilcox
Minnesota
Beasly
Boston gets
Nelson and Beasly
Orlando gets
Rondo and Wilcox
Minny gets
Reddick
Rondo is unhappy in Boston and many believe he wants out (Cp3 to boston for Rondo attempt made him made mad). The celtics get a proven point guard in Nelson, whom under Doc Rivers will revive (just as Pietrus did) and who can spread the court and is a great shooter. They get a scoring beast in Beasly. So basically this revives their stagnant offense and gives them more depth.
Minny is losing to get rid of Beasly (they have enough SF) and they need a SG. Reddick will fit perfectly, great shooter and a efficient player posting good numbers. Good complement to Rubio’s passing ability and Loves’s inside game. Not to mention he is a great looker room guy and a hard worker.
Orlando gets Rondo. Great combo of Howard, Anderson and Rondo. He gives us a more stable PG and a much needed perimeter defender. Having Anderson, Turk and J Rich spacing the floor, Howard inside, Rondo will penetrate at will (offsetting his lack of shooting) and ramp up his assist avg to 12 -14 a game. Orlando finally gets a Robin to Batman and they can contend against Bulls and Heat, thereby increasing chances to convince Dwight to stay. I know it will be hard to sell the Celtics on it, but they basically gave away Perkins last year (killing their championship window)..
Minnesota says no. Boston doesn't returns a phone call from us for the next 10 years.
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by aTasteLikeBurning on Feb 22, 2012 2:41 AM EST up reply actions

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