New Orleans Hornets 93, Orlando Magic 67
by Evan Dunlap on Jan 27, 2012 11:05 PM EST
in 2011/2012 Recaps
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In another dreadful offensive performance, the Orlando Magic went through the motions Friday night against the New Orleans Hornets, falling by a 93-67 final score and being outscored in every quarter. Dwight Howard was the only Magic player to score in double figures, with 28 points. J.J. Redick, with nine, was the only one of 12 Magic players to score more than six. The Hornets got 17 points from Carl Landry off their bench, while Marco Belinelli rifled in four three-pointers. Floor-spacing forward Jason Smith shot 7-of-9 from the field, and 6-of-7 on mid-range jumpers, en route to scoring 14 points of his own.
On some level, it's difficult to assess this game, as it is Orlando's fourth in five nights in four different cities. But that excuse can only carry so far; the Magic are hardly the only team with a travel-heavy schedule in this lockout-shortened season. Given the long layoff, nobody ought to expect them to be the 1986 Boston Celtics in late January. But they shouldn't be the 2005 Orlando Magic either.
Within the game's opening moments it became clear Orlando had very little energy. Its offense stagnated to a frightening degree: Howard would post up, a wing player would make a post-entry pass and stand in place, while three other players stood still on the weak side. That comes straight out of the Brian Hill playbook: no creativity, no movement, no flow. Would it kill someone on this team to cut? To set a back pick? To move without the ball in any way?
| Team | Pace | Efficiency | eFG% | FT Rate | OReb% | TO Rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Magic | 88.3 | 75.9 | 44.3% | 21.3 | 11.4 | 26.0 |
| Hornets | 88.3 | 105.3 | 53.7% | 7.4 | 27.3 | 14.7 |
| Green denotes a stat better than the team's season average; red denotes a stat worse than the team's season average. | ||||||
New Orleans played with pride and lots of heart, and clearly earned this win. Take nothing away from that team. But even ignoring the fact that the Hornets had lost nine straight games; the fact that they were without their best player, Eric Gordon, due to injury; and the fact that they were without an All-Star big man, Chris Kaman, due to wanting to unload his salary, one might get the impression that they were the better team.
The blowout did afford coach Stan Van Gundy the opportunity to allow Daniel Orton to make his first NBA appearance. In three minutes of toxic-waste time, Orton scored two points on 2-of-2 from the foul line. In addition, he recorded a goaltend on his first defensive possession at the professional level. Scoring two points for the other team is bad, obviously, but it was at least encouraging to see Orton, who has battled knee injuries extensively over the last several years, get impressive elevation on the block attempt.
Orton made his pro debut at center alongside fellow rookie Justin Harper at power forward. The Richmond product made his fifth career appearance and missed his only shot attempt, bringing his career scoring numbers to 0 points on 0-of-3 shooting in 14 minutes.
Orlando needs to find answers, and quickly, because the schedule does not relent. After an off day Saturday, the Magic will play five times in the next seven nights, with two back-to-back sets. Also, starting point guard Jameer Nelson and starting power forward Ryan Anderson are nursing injuries to their jaw and calf, respectively.
For the Magic, things might get worse before they get better.
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Me
I'm just a sucker with no self esteem
by tiquanunderwear on Jan 27, 2012 11:41 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Since the Magic led Boston 52-25 late in the second quarter Thursday...
…they have been outscored 159-98 in 6+ quarters.
The Magic scored 67 points and committed 23 total turnovers. This was the fourth game in franchise history that the Magic scored 70 or fewer points along with 20 or more turnovers. Two of those games have occurred within the last week.
The final score would have been even worse had the Hornets shot better than 6 of 16 (37.5%) at the free throw line. This ties the record for the lowest free throw percentage by an opposing team in a game in Magic franchise history. The 37.5% also sets a new Hornets’ franchise record for the worst free throw percentage in a game.
With Ryan Anderson out, other players needed to step up to help Dwight Howard. This obviously didn’t happen. The other four Magic starters combined for 11 points on 5 of 23 FG shooting (21.7%).
The Hornets shot 50% or better in three of the four quarters, while the Magic shot no better than 42% in any quarter.
Thank goodness for the day off Saturday.
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions, and contenders for 2012
Chicago Bears... as many playoff wins this year as Green Bay... zero
Orlando Magic... 2009 Eastern Conference Champions, and contenders for 2012
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 28, 2012 12:08 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Some quotes from Dwight Howard after the game
Courtesy of the post-game recap from Yahoo! Sports:
“I look at guys and they don’t look like they want to play. I told them at halftime, ‘If you don’t want to play, just stay in the locker room, because it don’t make sense for a team who we should beat to just demolish us.”
“It hurts to get out there and play your hardest and you expect everybody to play the same way, and I’m not calling anybody out by no means because we all have to get better … but if you don’t want to be out there, don’t dress up. If you don’t want to play, stay home. People work too hard. I want to win a championship. I work too hard every night for anybody to not want to go out there and play hard.”
“They killed us because they just played hard and they wanted it. Look at their roster, but they play hard every night. … They kicked our butts tonight, not because they’re a way better team than us, but because they play harder than us.”
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions, and contenders for 2012
Chicago Bears... as many playoff wins this year as Green Bay... zero
Orlando Magic... 2009 Eastern Conference Champions, and contenders for 2012
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 28, 2012 3:12 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Howard is a cancer to this team
The pressure he puts on his team as a “captain”, who is going to listen to someone who outright says he doesnt want to play with them? I feel like everyone is too pressured,, especially Baby, when he came Orlando told him he is what was gonna save D12, thats a lot of pressure, we need this to be away from our team and baby and everyone else can play with this weight lifted. Time for Howard to go and I will be booing him Sunday against Indianna, TIRED OF HIS ANTICS!!! funny he shows up for the LA game, shaq needs to call him out everynight, maybe he wants to play to prove something, well we need to rid ourselves of this crap and move on
by Magical-OverHauL on Jan 28, 2012 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah. more & more i'm seeing a camelo thing here.
He doesn’t do much against boston and calls his team-mates out (even though he had just as much do with that lost). and keeps talking about leaving. I don’t get why some superstars wants their team to give a 110%, if their gonna abandon them anyway. Time to do a denver and get some young talent and a couple of picks. trade howard, jameer, and j-rich (keep turk) and get on with the future of this team.
by Lil J on Jan 28, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Have to get rid of ALL bad contracts...
This means Hedo, J.Rich, Duhon… and now, add Nelson too! We NEED the cap space to add a good Free Agent.
I say; let’s make separate deals, one with Howard and Turk; another with J.Rich and Nelson, with maybe Orton thrown in to spice it up.
Turk HAS to go with Dwight; it’s our trump card…
Are you kidding?
How can you disagree with what he’s saying, especially since he would have a better idea about his teammates’ level of desire than you would? A lot of guys just look like they don’t want to be here, and they’re not the ones making trade demands. Meanwhile the one guy that has made a trade request continues to play hard. He’s giving the team every last chance to make a case for him to stay, and they’re blowing it.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 28, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Why do you think they don't want to be here?
Dwight is concerned about his image which is why he is putting in game time effort; not because he wants to win and certainly not for the team.
The minute Dwight asked for a trade he was no longer a teammate to anyone in that locker room and absolutely not their leader. Now that he has decided to continuously insult his teammates publicly, he is more likely an enemy. I am actually surprised they held together this long.
How many times would you let someone insult and publicly humiliate you?
by MagicLA on Jan 28, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I'd make sure that someone wouldn't have anything to insult and humiliate me about first.
You only have solid ground to stand on when the other person is clearly wrong. And that starts with effort, which Dwight still is giving. He’s not the four other guys standing around doing nothing.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 28, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
At what point does he look in the mirror and recognize that he is as much of the 'soft' problem - if not the primary cause of it.
His technicals and breakdowns vs physical teams and inability to hit free throws are as harmful to the team’s trophy aspirations as any of the other team deficiencies.
by MagicLA on Jan 28, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Like I said in another post,
not every star is a star against every team (and again, think of the Lakers always losing to the Bobcats). Dwight used to be able to count on his teammates to pick him up when he was struggling. He can’t count on them anymore. His free throws are what they are. His technicals have almost no effect on games until he gets suspended. He’s not perfect. But his teammates are worse.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 28, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Also, The Magic where 11-4 going into the Boston game and a lot of that had to do with Anderson, Hedo and JJ.
Just because Nelson and JRich have been playing bad it does not mean the whole team sucks. In fact if you look at win shares Anderson ranks higher than Dwight.
by MagicLA on Jan 28, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Anderson's had a pretty good season so far,
but his consistency isn’t where it needs to be yet (and is of course the only one that didn’t get a contract extension, which makes total sense…sigh). JJ is a backup, Hedo’s effort always deserves criticism, and literally everyone else is not doing very well, at best. If you play well and give good effort, you don’t get called out. Simple as that. Dwight’s not in the wrong here.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 28, 2012 2:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What are his teammates competing for? because of him they could be playing anywhere tomorrow.
In a month it is very unlikely that this roster looks the same.
Dwight is totally in the wrong. First of all he quit on his teammates by asking for a trade – not the other way around. After that nothing matters.
Once the trust is broken, you can’t duct tape it together. You really think those professional athletes that have been part of team sports their whole lives believe that fake BS – “hey guys lets giggle and plank together and pretend I didn’t just tell the world that I think you all suck” .."oh and btw you have to try really really hard because "I’ want to win “my way”
Screw that….
by MagicLA on Jan 28, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Yeah, it's a two-way street.
Dwight wants to “win a title” and keeps saying “we’re a family”… But he’s already filed for divorce. Doc Rivers kept preaching “Ubuntu”, while Dwight is pointing fingers at everyone except himself.
I have no problem whatsoever with Dwight wanting to leave. I totally get why. But trying to talk about family togetherness one day and then trashing his teammates the next is just a lame move.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Shuh-weet!
That’s gonna leave a mark.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 29, 2012 3:10 AM EST up reply actions
OMG Bruce Bowen is so silly, wears a bow-tie.
That clip gave me the willies (had to stop it halfway). Neither of you realize that no one on the roster matters except Dwight. Redick and Anderson become readily available in order to rebuild if Dwight is gone. Dwight is talking to Otis just as much (probably more) as the other players.
He is giving Otis one last heads up, after media speculation sort of implied this roster could play itself into keeping Dwight as is. Otis has a hell of a choice to foolishly call Dwight’s bluff or find a presently unknown trade and get some assets. Or I guess Otis could miraculously figure a way to get a 2nd all star by July while keeping at least Anderson.
But those are basically the options Dwight is clearly setting for Otis. Hate Dwight for it (I don’t), but he has the power to set this agenda. All the Bruce Bowen dribble is just blah blah. (full disclosure: I do not think Bruce Bowen deserves to have a jersey retired)
Whether you think his play on the court deserves enshrinement or not...
The dude was a key part in multiple championships. He wasn’t providing basketball analysis there, talking X’s and O’s, or doing talent evaluation (which some might question his ability to do those). He was talking about what it takes to be a leader, what’s expected of a superstar on a winning team (he played a lot of games with Tim Duncan, mind you).
Silly bowtie notwithstanding, he was speaking seriously about what a player of his level (a role player on a supposed title-contender) expects their “leader” to do. He was right on target about Dwight not being there on the weakside help. His defense is not where it was in previous years. His FT’s are worse than ever. He still hasn’t matured to handle physical play. He’s not perfect, but you don’t see any other guys calling him out. He’s the only one pointing fingers right now. And it’s not helping his team at all, given the fact they know he’s not committed long term.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 29, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
you are kidding me right??
The only game Howard has played hard all game is LA, even when he plays so-called hard lately its half spirited, how do u get blocked by Brand, seriously? and how does Battie ball over u,
by Magical-OverHauL on Jan 31, 2012 6:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dwight (outside of requesting a trade) is saying the same things he was saying last year...
He called them out when they needed to be called out. I don’t question Dwight’s desire to win…and it’s really hard to point out many instances where he hasn’t gone out there and played hard. Regardless to whether he is traded or not…the rest of the team has to play…and they definitely(as of late) do not look like they want to win a championship.
Whoever heard of a cat eating porridge? Why can't we have a mouse like other pussycats?
by Mr_Major on Jan 28, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True on one point
This latest barrage by Dwight will take away his remaining credibility and make it nearly impossible to lead this team.
I have a feeling we’re going down a nasty losing streak, including next game vs Indiana Pacers. It will take something dramatic to jolt out of it. Injuries could have additional impact too…
by manny55 on Jan 29, 2012 4:07 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The Dwight System: How to inspire and lead with one foot out the door.
March can not come quick enough.
by MagicLA on Jan 28, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, I don't understand it at all.
At least LeBron was putting up a front and people honestly believed he could stay in Cleveland and that he liked his teammates. He wasn’t calling them out after each loss.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Has this team quit on Dwight?
And, no Dwight, you don’t play as hard as you can every night. Lots of coasting from him, too.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 28, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly I don't know what's going on with them
When howard was off the floor during the boston game, They played with fire in their hearts. When howard got back on the floor it’s like they got lazy. In the NO game they looked uninspired. I think all this talking is getting to them. (big example jameer nelson). Their playing to me is like, with boston, hey dwight this is how we can play without you complaining so damn much and the NO game was like them saying just go dwight. i don’t know what’s gonna happen this week. but really i just want all this to stop.
by Lil J on Jan 28, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The offense is a one-dimensional as a team can possibly get, which is nothing new.
1. Offense isn’t SVG’s “forte”.
2. Most plays are either pass to dwight iso or high-screen/screen defenders to death & shoot jumper.
3. With that said, you rarely see plays set up for players to attack the basket, and while we don’t have players who are “great” at it besides Jason, wafer and JJ are both “decent” at it imo.
4. Lotsa jump shooters. Outside shooting isn’t always reliable in the long run.
5. It seems like they almost need a (guard) who has a good inside game.
6. Terrible pick and roll/screen defenders suddenly(?!). Doc Rivers used this todevastating effect in the game @ Amway. Time and time again the Magic defenders couldnt rotate to the open man on identical plays.
I’ll stop there. Even when theyre winning the offense (to me) is so frustratingly simple. I could be wrong though…
Reply:
2. Pick and rolls are the basic NBA play. Nothing wrong there. We do need a better Dwight post up play.
4. Outside shooting is actually more reliable in the long run. It’s highly variable in the short run, but over a season when your shooting percentages smooth out, it’s a highly efficient shot.
5. J-Rich actually has (had?) a really good inside post up game.
6. Have to agree that the Boston adjustments late game were really bad. But it was one night, I’ll give them a break this time.
by nastynate2012 on Jan 29, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
There’s nothing wrong with P&R but its seems simple to a fault. Unless Dwight is involved, the end result is always for someone to get an open jump shot instead of driving. How reliable has jump shooting been for ORL? They’ll have a great game then shoot 30% the next game, its not reliable game-to-game. J-Rich does have a good inside game but the plays called are not facilitating to JRich (or Q) to allow them to get good machups inside. The offense just looks way too one dimensional to me, and its been a disaster so far.
Dear Santa
I would really like us to have at least one player other than Dwight that attacks the rim aggressively and frequently, rather than settle for a jumper.
So we see what this team is like without Ryan on the floor.
So I guess that’s instructive. We see that Jameer not playing doesn’t automatically make the team better either, so that helps too. That’s the only positive thing I can say right now. Is it telling that the team has played a lot better with Dwight off the floor than on the floor during this “swoon”?
The past 4 games, Dwight’s +/- is at -56. Hedo is at -34 (with 32 of it coming just from the NO game). Jameer is at -18 (definitely the #1 problem!). J-Rich is at -28. Glen Davis is at -20. Ryan is at +9 (in only 3 games).
Either way, I’m beyond frustrated with this team. I started to drink a little kool-aid after the LA win, and was even dismissive of the Boston loss as an aberration. But, this is the same stuff that happened to us against Boston in the ECF. This is the same stuff that happened against ATL in the first round. And now 3 out of 4 games the same thing happened. Dwight needs to shut up if he actually means to do well (while he’s here), Stan needs to get these guys on the same page, and Otis needs to be fired.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 11:28 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
SVG was talking about how important Ryan was last night (and not in a good way) so I looked it up.
This got to be way longer than I expected, but it is kind of interesting (though nerdy).
If you look at 5 man lineup +/- stats you can see the various lineups and their +/- stats. I threw this into a spreadsheet and did some playing around with the numbers.
The first thing I did was remove any lineup that had played fewer than 10 minutes together. That quickly whittled the list from 50 lineups to 12. I then ran some analysis to see which players appeared the most often in the best lineups.
To begin, let’s look at the likelihood of the top rotation players to appear in the 12 most frequently used lineups and their total minutes.
J. Redick: 83.9% (241:57)
D. Howard: 82.6% (238:08)
H. Turkoglu: 60.6% (174:40)
R. Anderson: 59.5% (171:39)
C. Duhon: 55.2% (159:09)
G. Davis: 52.2% (150:28)
J. Nelson: 40.4% (116:23)
J. Rich: 30.1% (86:48)
Q. Rich: 15.1% (43:32)
V. Wafer: 10.3% (29:35)
OK. That is just pretty much an examination of how many minutes the top rotation players play in a the most frequently used lineups. Where it gets interesting is if you start running those numbers against the most productive units and compare the difference.
If every player was identical at all times abd you looked at just the most productive of these units, everyone would play the same percentage of the available minutes. Of course, that doesn’t happen. Since it doesn’t we can compare the above numbers to how often someone appears in the best lineups to get an idea of their individual impact.
For example, in the most frequently used lineups Ryan Anderson is on the floor 59% of the time. However, if you rank these lineups by total +/- and only look at the top half, he is on the floor 90% of the time. If you rank the lineups by +/- per minute, he appears on the floor 89% of the time in the top half.
By contrast, Glen Davis is on the floor with the top lineups 52% of the time. But if you look at these lineups that produce the most, he is the floor just 30.6% (total /-) or 34.8% (/- per minute).
Obviously, this shows that Ryno is far more productive for the five man unit than Davis is. It’s not a surprise, but with Ryan’s presence in the best lineups +31% and Davis’ -21%, it becomes pretty glaring the swing.
What is most interesting is that when you look at all of the players on the team, the guys who are most likely to be on the floor when the lineups are stongest are not necessarily who you’d think. I’ve sorted them by the difference between their total precentage time on the floor and their percentage in best lineups by +/- per minute.
R. Anderson: 88.6% (29.1)
H. Turkoglu: 72.1% (11.5)
V. Wafer: 20.5% (10.2)
C. Duhon: 62.9% (7.7)
Q. Rich: 18.8% (3.7)
J. Nelson: 37.1% (-3.3)
D. Howard: 76.6% (-6.0)
J. Richardson: 20.7% (-9.5)
J. Redick: 68.0% (-16.0)
G. Davis: 37.1% (-17.4)
I have to say that I was surprised by exactly how this list shakes down.Now that I’ve got this spreadsheet setup I can even slice and dice this more, but this is an interesting start at least.
And SVG was right. Ryno really has been the key to the whole thing this year.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
by EnnBee on Jan 28, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
What I meant about what SVG said...
He said the team can’t seem to score without Anderson. So, it was “a bad way” about the Magic and how they rely on Anderson too much and without him, they struggle badly. These numbers show that quite dramatically.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
Great research and fact-finding
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions, and contenders for 2012
Chicago Bears... as many playoff wins this year as Green Bay... zero
Orlando Magic... 2009 Eastern Conference Champions, and contenders for 2012
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 28, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Is it a coincidence that every game we lost.
Anderson has played poorly.(expect a couple of games)
No. It's not.
He’s our best scoring threat outside of Dwight. He doesn’t turn the ball over like Dwight. He helps on the offensive glass a lot, especially when so much attention is on Dwight. Is he anywhere as good as Dwight? No. But he’s the only guy that can make things easier on Dwight right now (unless Hedo is actually giving full effort and being aggressive).
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, that's exactly what you should expect.
If he’s as key as the stats EnnBee found indicate, then it makes complete sense that if Anderson isn’t playing well, the Magic are in trouble. This is not a deep team.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 28, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What a mess
"Generally, when I draw the play, it's just who's going where. Maybe I have not made it clear enough that we would like the ball to go in the basket."
by AB's triple double on Jan 28, 2012 11:47 AM EST reply actions
Where is Otis to chat about the state of the roster now?
To talk about the glaring holes that he created? To talk about why he didn’t give Ryan an extension after giving J-Rich and Glen Davis 4 year deals? Has he put his foot in his mouth enough times that ownership has finally told him to just keep quiet? Stan has to get up after every game and try to explain away why his guys can’t beat anyone one-on-one, and (to his credit) own up to his mistakes in addition to trying to fall on the sword for the mistakes of his players.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Not Anderson.
But otherwise, I pretty much agree with you.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
by EnnBee on Jan 28, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
u people are talking about anderson like hes really that good all he does is shoot are we that bad to were people think aderson is that good lol smfh
Try checking out my post above and still see if you think that way.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
You should watch Magic games
"If Dwight spent more time practicing and less time b!tching, then maybe he’d be playing a little better." -My Mom
Let me introduce you to "Mr. Period"
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/07/07
And to echo what BigMac12111 said, let me introduce you to Magic games.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dwight Howard is not the problem!
The roster sucks! Anderson and Redick are the only pieces anyone should care about keeping. And they’re both role players!
Dwight is top 2 best players in the league. No one else dominates on both ends more than Dwight. He works very hard, is very talented, and is very competitive.
The roster sucks! He is frustrated. This is not complicated.
by CaliFlorida on Jan 28, 2012 3:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
As a Net fan who watched the Melo drama closely last season
I can tell you that it is a mix of both.
The Magic DO have some decent players( I still regret the Nets trading Anderson), but the distraction of a trade request hanging over the team kills chemistry. The Magic remind me of the Nuggets last year.
by NetsKiNG on Jan 28, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah great, the Magic have some decent players. They DON'T have a 2nd all-star.
This roster is lottery level outside of Dwight. Same as last year.
This is way different than Carmelo and the Nuggets. Among other things, Carmelo was overrated (bad at defense, high usage and inefficient offensively). Denver is better off without Carmelo (and the Knicks may be as well). There is no conceivable scenario where the Magic are better off without Dwight Howard.
Everything, including chemistry issues, relates back to the roster sucking.
I admit I think Otis has done a poor job constructing your team
and in no way am I comparing Melo to Dwight as players, Dwight is clearly superior.
I’m just saying that the trade request DOES effect how these guys play together. It’s the elephant in the room.
by NetsKiNG on Jan 28, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All true points.
But what are you going to do, get pissed off at all of the players? I don’t feel like there’s been many times that the players on the court haven’t stepped out on the court and cared. Hell, the D has played well even in our low points of the year. But are you really going to ask a 31 year-old J-Rich, a 30 year-old Jameer (who’s been totally disrespected for years now), a 31 year-old Hedo, a 1st year starter Ryan Anderson, Glen Davis, Chris Duhon, or JJ Redick to be all-stars? No, you’re not, otherwise you’d be crazy.
Dwight wants guys to “be better”. What does he think the ceiling is for those guys? How much harder can they really play? How many more “I don’t see talent on this roster” or “This team doesn’t have a winning attitude” interviews can the players see before really believing it themselves?
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, I'm sure it's an awkward situation.
But I’m not sure it’s correct to say Dwight is handling this poorly. The alternative would be to not give the team any notice as to his intentions and bolt like Lebron. Or tell the team there is no way he will ever consider staying no matter how much the roster improves like Carmelo did to Denver. The situation is a bad one. But for me, it starts and ends with the roster Otis has assembled.
Regarding the other players, I think there’s a clear difference in how some are handling the situation. Anderson and Redick seem to actually be competing. Jameer and J-Rich not so much. I don’t have a problem with Dwight calling out players who don’t seem to care.
Howard is handling it just like any diva or spoiled brat would.
This is the correct way to handle it:
Marc Stein: Isn’t it time to finally ask for a trade? Don’t you want one more shot at a ring before you retire? How much more of this can you take?
Steve Nash: “What does that mean?” Nash asks back. "Do I go in and say, ‘Trade me to a top two or three team?’ I think it’s lot more difficult than people think.
“One, it’s not my style. Maybe I’m old school, but I feel like that’s not my place to give up on my team, give up on my teammates. I signed a contract and made a commitment.
“And two, I don’t feel it’s like choosing a restaurant. It’s got to be a situation that works for two teams. And I don’t know how simple that is. But before we even get to that part of it, I just feel that I owe it to my teammates to stay committed to them. I feel that I owe it to the fans and the organization to fight.”
by MagicLA on Jan 28, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
For a 38 year old veteran, past his prime with limited trade value?
Sure . . . it’s the correct way to handle it.
For a 26 year old, ‘best in the league’ level talent, GM’s are drooling over, and who is stuck on an inferior, veteran roster without much flexibility?
That’s called pulling a Lebron.
But for a 38 yr old past his prime
He still has more then enough in the tank to win a championship. Still today he makes his team-mates look great. You put Nash on this team and i think we would flourish. it’s not gonna happen (i think) but it’s nice to dream.
Agreed, it would be nice for this year.
But I think it only helps for this year. I don’t think it keeps Dwight here past another year.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I never thought we needed an second all-star in the 1st place.
But what does Otis smith do after the 2009 finals. BREAK UP THE TEAM THAT GOT TO FINALS. Ever sense then our team has gone from great (09) to good (10), to bad (11), and finally pathetic (now). We had great team balance that could go toe-to-toe with anybody.But otis smith let that “we need a go-to-guy talk” get to his head. We got to the finals fine without a go-to-guy and lost mainly because stan forced jameer (who didn’t play for 4 months) to play in the finals. He then again breaks up an good team again when that flu hit us. because we didn’t start playing well after they just got better and back on the court. then he trades bass for practically nothing. Otis smith should have been fired 2010 for putting an arrow in our hearts. yeah we got anderson. but what else?
by Lil J on Jan 28, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This roster is not that much worse than Dallas' entering last year.
At least from a talent standpoint. What it lacks right now is someone who can beat others one-on-one, and confidence/will/mental fortitude/whatever someone wants to call it. Dwight can’t do a damn thing about the former. But he sure as hell can assist some with the latter. He’s putting dudes down instead of bringing them up. Freaking Kobe Bryant learned how to walk that line (for the most part).
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I don't think the Dallas comparison works very well at all.
Veterans with mental toughness like Jason Kidd and Jason Terry are not walking through that door. Neither is a backup pg like JJ Barea. Neither is an addition like Tyson Chandler who cures the exact issue holding the team back. Hell …. a backup center isn’t even going to cross our threshold!
There are deep deep holes in the Magic roster, as has been the case for quite some time.
I Dont blame Dwight
He maybe going about things wrong by airing out stuff that should be kept between the team but we are only fans and all of us have been saying the same things he did and we’re just fans imagine him playing through games where only he can get a rebound or a shot. The last 3 games is an example of why he wanted a trade. The guys that were brought in to help seems worse than those that were traded. As bad as Arenas was is Jameer looking any better ? The team as good as the record may have been is giving us a preview of what is most likely to happen come playoff time.
Me Against The World And I'm Winning
This same Dallas team with "mental toughness"...
Were guys who were being questioned for that very same thing even up to the point where they blew that huge lead in the playoffs against Portland. Did Dirk publicly rip them for choking? I honestly don’t know, but I don’t recall it. Dwight choked against Boston too. Did you see anyone calling him out for failing to produce against a 63 year old KG who was sweating gallons?
This team isn’t winning a title, we all know it. But this team should make it past the 1st round, and by and large, the players on the team aren’t the ones he should be publicly ripping. These guys care, you can see it. They’re just as frustrated as he is when every loss means the doom of the franchise, and they all know they’re on the trading block.
If Dwight really wanted to help, he’d go to ownership and tell them the only chance they have for him to stay is for Otis to get fired. He’s the one who expected Hedo and Jameer and J-Rich to be all-star quality compliments to Dwight.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You get the sense Jameer and J-Rich care?
Jameer seems to me to have checked out based on Dwight wanting to play with a different pg. I think that’s on Jameer (if it’s true). Prove him wrong or accept the fact you’re better suited for a more limited role at this point. But don’t quit competing.
If what Avery Bradley said about Jameer backing off is true, Dwight has every right to call him out.
Jameer had 11, 5 and 5 with only 1 TO the 2nd game.
I’d say he responded within his ability. He didn’t turn the ball over like he did the other game. He left the game with the team up 16, and came back to a debacle with the game tied and Boston having all the momentum.
Jameer’s shot has been really off, but I think it has more to do with conditioning and y’know, maybe confidence. If Dwight was his friend, he’d try to pick him up.
J-Rich, I think he cares, he’s emotional on the court… But I don’t think he has it anymore. He’s not playing with Steve Nash, and he’s not athletic enough to beat people off the dribble. He’s a catch-and-shoot guy who’s been inconsistent with his shot.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 28, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If Jameer checked out...
Then, WHY is he still in this team… Is Howard still protecting him, after calling out for a better pg?
We fundamentally disagree that these guys care.
As long as we don’t agree on that, we aren’t going to agree on whether or not Dwight is doing the right thing here.
I like to watch.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 28, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
we need to play von wafer more
he outscored J rich while playin like 20 less minutes…hes the only player on our team that can drive effectively and either dish it to Dwight or go up for a layup…he’s the only wing player than can get fouled multiple times a game, and he can make plays in the fast break
How many more 2 pt games are we gonna let J Rich have before we realize he can’t cut it as the starting SG of this team???
I propose making JJ our starting SG, Wafer our backup SG, and J Rich our backup SF
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 28, 2012 6:29 PM EST reply actions
I know that some people disagree with making JJ a starter, but what you say is pretty reasonable
I’m really disappointed SVG’s not using Wafer more, he’s shown a lot of explosiveness (Spurs game off the top of my head) but yes his ability to go 1-on-1 and drive constantly can’t be overlooked. Seriously, at some points during the Boston games when we weren’t doing much there was too much hesitation and a lack of movement at times. Being idle just led to more turnovers, and even when we got a defensive stop I feel that we were too reckless and threw a court-length pass that either wasn’t accurate or picked up by the other team. I kind of feel bad for Arenas now, he was really limited in his role off the bench and never really did get a feel for the team.
I'm a guy
I'm one of those that thought having Von Wafer vs. Boston couldn't make things worse than they were...
I can’t agree with you about Arenas. Arenas was not going to help the Magic one bit. Look how long it’s taken for any team to get interested in him, and nothing… yet. The Lakers might get him, but only because they are pretty desperate themselves.
The Orlando Magic: A team that flirts with Greatness, but Greatness just won't put out.
Caracas, Venezuela.
by North of the South on Jan 29, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying Arenas was playing decent when he was with us
It’s just kinda disheartening how far his ability dropped compared to previous years, which disappointed us and him.
I'm a guy
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