Over-valuing Jameer

by skutchmiami on Jan 19, 2012 6:16 PM EST

I'm seeing all these trade scenarios with Jameer and J-Rich included...Memo to Magic fans: These guys have far more value to Orlando than anyone else...and that's because of the system, not because they are ultra-talented...

The reality is Orlando has one real asset aside from D-12, and that's Ryan Anderson...Maybe JJ, but besides that, the Magic have no real trading options ASIDE from sending Dwight away...wish it were different, but it's not...

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Still waiting for the 10th "we have a PG problem" post.

"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"

by 4QB on Jan 19, 2012 6:47 PM EST reply actions

Jrich has more value to other teams.

Jason Richardson is very much antithetical to the Magic’s system.

He averaged 19ppg 42% 3FG with the Suns.
He averaged 22ppg 40% 3FG with the Bobcats.
He averaged 18ppg, 21ppg, and 23ppg with the Warriors between 04-06.

He is obviously better suited to a high pace high volume offense than to the incredibly slow fast break ignoring Magic system.

He would have more value to the Nuggets, Heat, Knicks, Cavs, Blazers, Kings, Wizards, Bobcats, Wolves, or 76ers (the top 10 NBA teams in pace factor).

RAWR! (╯°□°）╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ

by aTasteLikeBurning on Jan 19, 2012 7:57 PM EST reply actions

Not anymore....

I think him being locked up for 4 yrs decreases his value for all those teams

by AdnanBashir on Jan 19, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions

thank you Otis

I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?

by Souwantmyname on Jan 19, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions

Yes, but, his excessively long contract decreases his value for all teams equally.

This includes the Magic.

So his relative value is still higher in a situation better suited to his skill set.

That doesn’t mean that the Magic can trade him for anything. It just means he would be a better player on a faster team.

RAWR! (╯°□°）╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ

by aTasteLikeBurning on Jan 19, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions

I disagree...

His skill set matches what the magic are looking for quite well….As you mentioned earlier J-Rich had great three pt shoot percentage and would also attack the basket…unfortunately he does not go to the basket as often since he arrived in orlando…..also you have to factor in age….the numbers you provided were all in his prime and he is way past that….thus his value is much lower….shooting guards usually dont age well either…..add that to fact that the teams you listed really dont have a need for a shooting guard because they either have someone in place who is younger ,more skilled or cheaper.

by AdnanBashir on Jan 20, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions

Most of this is untrue.

His skill set doesn’t fit well with the Magic in his role. He is playing the Barnes, Pietrus, Lee role in the offense but without the defensive ability of those players. So he actually is over qualified for his offensive role and under qualified for what the Magic need from his spot defensively.

Jrich has never been a guy that attacks the basket in the half-court offense. He is a finisher. Either on the fast break or in the half-court when someone else creates him a shot. He isn’t a guy that handles the ball on the pick-and-roll or creates for himself. So his play style with the Magic isn’t an aberration or indicative of him not being able to “penetrate” like he used to because of age. It is the expected result when combining his play style with the Magic’s play style.

The numbers I provided were last year (Suns) and three years ago (Bobcats). And, obviously, his Warriors days were quite some time ago now.

The argument here is that:

a.) Jrich is a system player for the Magic.

b.) Jrich is more valuable to the Magic than to any other teams.

a.) – Is ridiculous. Richardson is averaging the some of the worst numbers and percentages of his career with the Magic.

b.) – You seem to be unable to fully comprehend. All of the factors that you say lower his value also lower his value for the Magic. So if we are gaging relative value between teams his value is inherently greater in a system where his performance would be better. All other factors (age, contract, position, etc) are universal amongst all teams. Therefore his value cannot be highest on the 6th slowest paced team in the league.

RAWR! (╯°□°）╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ

by aTasteLikeBurning on Jan 20, 2012 4:27 AM EST up reply actions

Agree to disagree?

1) You compared j-rich to barnes, petrius and lee. All three of those guys are known for their defense before their offense. J-rich is the complete opposite. I’m pretty sure when the Magic made the trade for him and Turk it was due to wanting more offensive punch. The decision for the trade was based on knowing they would get a player that is worse defensively so I don’t see how that plays into this discussion. They wanted a more qualified offensive player. Whether he has lived up to those expectations is a difference story.

2) The Magic have never asked any of the guys you listed to play pick and roll basket ball. They were pretty much all spot of shooters for Orlando. J-Rich can do more than spot up. He is known as a much better catch and shoot guy as well as a post up guy compared to those guys. I’m pretty sure Evan wrote an article breaking down these stats as well. Also, the Magic have not asked him to be a pick and roll player or to pentrate. He has no performed well in the situations the coaching staff has put him thus far. And I think Van Gundy knows that his player do well and dont. Again if he doesn;t perform that is not a system issue. That is up to the player.

3) You listed 10 teams that you thought he would be more suitable for. I don’t want to write an essay so wont go into much detail but 7 of those 10 teams have a good one two punch at shooting guard and no need for a player like J-Rich because he has no value to them. Of the three left two are rebuilding and one doesn’t have the money of assets to acquire him (referring to the Knicks). Contracts, age and performance all play a huge factor in a players value. Don’t just look at it from the Magic’s point of view. Look at the benefit for the other team as well. A 31 yr old shooting guard who is under contract till the age of 35 have very little value.

by AdnanBashir on Jan 20, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions