Orlando Magic 102, Toronto Raptors 96
by Evan Dunlap on Jan 1, 2012 10:17 PM EST
in 2011/2012 Recaps
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PrintRyan Anderson scored 24 points, J.J. Redick added 21, and the Orlando Magic rallied from a 16-point deficit in the second half to defeat the Toronto Raptors, 102-96, to open 2012. Orlando prevailed despite a brilliant performace from Raptors center Andrea Bargnani, who scored a game-high 28 points on 10-of-21 shooting, and did so with a variety of moves from all around the court. Point guard José Calderón did his part to set Bargnani and his other teammates up, dishing 13 assists and just one turnover in 36 minutes while scoring 18 points of his own.
For the first 39 minutes or so of Sunday's game, Toronto badly outplayed Orlando. It ran its offense with more precision, defended more aggressively, and appeared to be at least a half-step quicker overall. A pair of free throws by DeMar DeRozan--who had the sneakiest 17-point outing I've ever seen--at the 9:43 mark of the fourth period put Toronto up by 13. To that point, the only flash of competence Orlando showed on either end of the floor came in the second period, when it needed just three minutes to turn a 10-point deficit into a three-point lead. The Raptors would go on an 11-3 scoring run to enter halftime with a five-point edge.
But in the fourth, the Magic found their footing, and began an impressive rally in which they moved the ball on offense and challenged the Raptors on defense. It was an effort reminiscent of the more memorable games of the team's 2008/09 NBA Finals season. In no way do I mean to suggest that the Magic are championship-caliber; the point is that for nine minutes on Sunday, they played like they were.
| Team | Pace | Efficiency | eFG% | FT Rate | OReb% | TO Rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Raptors | 90.0 | 106.7 | 44.2% | 34.6 | 16.7 | 12.2 |
| Magic | 90.0 | 113.4 | 57.3% | 21.3 | 22.2 | 13.3 |
| Green denotes a stat better than the team's 2010/11 average; red denotes a stat worse than the team's 2010/11 average. | ||||||
Calderón and Bargnani are talented players in their own rights, but watching them for most of Sunday's game, one might have mistaken them for the Dallas Mavericks' old Steve Nash/Dirk Nowitzki combination. And as lazily as the Magic defended--letting Calderón into the lane almost at will, conceding jumpers to Bargnani--one has to credit the Raptors' top players for an outstanding showing. Bargnani, who entered the league as a spot-up shooter, showed a diverse offensive game. He befuddled whomever Stan Van Gundy assigned to cover him, even defensive specialist Earl Clark.
And Calderón got to wherever he wanted to go, it seemend, whenever he wanted to go. Not a flashy point guard by any means, the seven-year veteran clinically dismantled Orlando's defense with dribble penetration. When afforded the opportunity, he knocked down his shots, shooting 6-of-9 from the field on the night, and 3-of-4 on threes.
But when the Magic knuckled down defensively, when they didn't allow Bargnani to roll or pop free from his man in the two-man game between him and Calderón, when they rotated correctly and closed out aggressively, the Raptors' offense went bust. After making their first two shots of the fourth period, Toronto ended the game in a 3-of-13 drought. Just as importantly, the Magic didn't send the Raptors to the foul line as often as they had in previous quarters, yielding just four attempts from the charity stripe in the fourth period.
The three-point shot fueled the Magic's comeback, as they nailed 5-of-7 of their triple-tries in the fourth. Hedo Turkoglu accounted for three of them (two makes and one assist), including the go-ahead three which provided the game's only lead change of the second half.
Anderson and Redick stole the show for Orlando, and the game ended on a high note, obviously, but there are still signs for concern. That Orlando played as lethargically as it did Sunday night bodes ill, especially on the front end of a back-to-back set. Further, Jason Richardson took a step backward after two solid outings, shooting 1-of-8 from the floor for five points; Redick, his backup, earned the team's crunch-time minutes at shooting guard and finished with 34 minutes to Richardson's 28. Further, Orlando remains vulnerable when it's not hitting from the outside. The Magic can't rely on the three-pointer every night. It used to be they could count on their defense to keep them in games, but based on the ease with which the likes of Calderón and Bargnani scored for the balance of Sunday's contest, that's simply not the case with the 2011/12 squad.
The Magic now jet to the Motor City for a matchup against the Detroit Pistons on Monday.
We invite you to follow Orlando Pinstriped Post on Twitter and like Orlando Pinstriped Post on Facebook.
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Good win tonight
I think there will be plenty of nights like tonight this season with such a condensed schedule. The fact we kept at it and got the win is very nice. Interesting comments by d12 after game about this team reminding him of Finals team.
Happy New Year!!
Great comeback from the Magic. We got this.
#freestevenash
What a crazy 4th quarter.
My biggest issue was with Howard in the second half and really the whole game. He played pretty well but too many guys were getting right past him in the paint for long stretches. Plus we were continually trying to get him the ball but he was very rarely set up in good position to have the ball passed to him. Once or twice I saw our guys miss him open but other than that he just wasn’t open. Luckily Jameer was able to get that classic drive and lob with Dwight going. That play is always a classic when getting to Dwight in the post isn’t working. As a positive, I definitely think Dwight’s passing out of the double this year has been great so far. He’s definitely improved and the earlier games weren’t a fluke.
Other than that, I think it’s safe to say that Redick and Anderson have taken steps forward this year. JJ in particular has become a really solid all-around player. His defense has improved exponentially over the years, he’s always been a solid shooter, he makes his free throws and now he’s become a decent ball handler and playmaker. Anderson would be an early candidate for Most Improved but he has to improve his defense. His on-ball defense doesn’t seem so bad but he loses his man too often. If he was a better defender I’d say he’s a shoo in for the All-Star team.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
by cgsimone on Jan 1, 2012 11:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That's weird...
…last year, Ryan occasionally struggled with on-ball defense, but rarely if ever lost his man. Does anyone else think that’s what’s happening this year? I haven’t had a chance to see much of the first week of games, but from what I have seen, I didn’t notice Ryan’s D being unusually erratic so far.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
look what the cat dragged in
"Generally, when I draw the play, it's just who's going where. Maybe I have not made it clear enough that we would like the ball to go in the basket."
by AB's triple double on Jan 1, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was a case of who he was guarding
Bargnani is one of the rare players with both an outside shot and enough foot speed to challenge Ryan. He couldn’t sag off because of the outside shot, and if Bagnani got the first step on him, he isn’t quick enough to cut Bargnani off from the rim. It’s something to keep an eye on, but I think it’s more a matchup issue than an Anderson issue.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jan 2, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, understood.
Yeah, I don’t think problems against Bargnani translate to problems in general. That guy does have a weird skill set, and I can’t think of any other PFs on contending teams who share it. (Well, except maybe Dirk… and it’s no news to anyone that Dirk is a mess to guard.)
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Bargnani was having a great game.
It is true that I’m picking on him and maybe it was more that Bargnani was having a great game. The only guys that have burned Ryan so far this year that I can remember are Bargnani and Scola and they’re both tough match ups.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
This is why Earl got minutes guarding Andrea
Earl vs Barg is a better matchup, but Earl just doesn’t have the same offensive ability as Ryan. If he was a more consistent scorer I’m sure he’d have had more minutes. Having said that I don’t think Ryan did that badly.
Earl doesn't have the same offensive ability as ANYBODY.
I like Earl just fine, and I think he’s a good defender, but if there’s a worse offensive player in the league, I don’t know of one.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
You're wrong
He has my offensive ability.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
Yeah. And he'd probably beat me one-on-one.
Fair enough.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
A great final ten minutes from the Magic offense
In the final 9:42 of the game, the Magic scored 28 points on 11 of 14 shooting (78.6%), including 4 of 5 on threes and 2 of 2 on free throws, while committing just one turnover. Their eFG% in that span was 92.9%.
Compare that to the Raptors, who scored 9 points on 3 of 12 shooting (25%) in that same span, including just 2 of 7 on threes and 1 of 2 on free throws while committing four turnovers.
The Magic were able to survive Toronto’s brilliant free throw shooting. The Raptors’ 93.1% from the line tied for the ninth highest percentage by a Magic opponent for a game, with a minimum of 25 free throws attempted.
The Raptors also were 16 of 16 on free throws in the third quarter.
The efficiency of Ryan Anderson and J.J. Redick through the first five games is absolutely off the charts! Here are their offensive stats through five games:
Anderson: 36/74 FGs (48.6%), 21/45 3 PT FGs (46.7%), 9/10 FTs (90%), while averaging 20.4 PPG. His eFG% is 62.8% and TS% is 65.1%.
Redick: 24/43 FGs (55.8%), 8/16 3 PT FGs (50%), 19/21 FTs (90.5%), while averaging 15.0 PPG. His eFG% is 65.1% and TS% is 71.8%.
I know it’s early in the season and that the amazing efficiency will level off some as the season goes on, but Anderson is indeed a candidate for most improved player as cgsimone mentioned, and I think that Redick could be a great candidate for sixth man of the year.
Exciting comeback win for the Magic!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC North Champion
Orlando Magic... 1995 and 2009 Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 1, 2012 11:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We play terrible FT defense
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
by 4QB on Jan 2, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
Great observation.
I think that the high efficiency rate of that 9:42 minutes in the 4th quarter is not sustainable but what we can take away from that example is that, in a Stan Van Gundy’s system, it all starts with good defense leading to good offense. The question, yet to be answered, is that whether or not this team is capable of playing sustained defense for longer stretches of the games … the squad after the trade of Dec 2010 also showed glimpses of being able to defend well but only in short spurts.
The defense changed in that stretch, too
In the post game, SVG said they had tried to get tricky and do some scheming on their pick and rolls and were clearly having issues. In the 4th quarter, they threw out the specialty wrinkles and went to their standard PnR defense. Clearly, that was the right choice as they held Toronto scoreless while also being able to rack up some points.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
Following on from my comments during the game
J.J. Redick now leads the league in offensive rating, at 148.5 (i.e. he’s scoring an estimated 148.5 points per 100 possessions). Ryan Anderson is #5, at 136.1. Dwight Howard is #1 in defensive rating, at a ridiculous 88.8 (opponents score only 88.8 points per 100 possessions against him).
Anderson is #2 in offensive win shares, behind only LeBron James, and Redick is #5 in that stat, with Durant and Harden at #3 and #4. Anderson is also tied for #2 in overall win shares with Durant, again behind LBJ. Redick is #7 in overall win shares, and Howard is #11. The only other team with two players in the top 10 is Oklahoma City (Durant and Harden at #2 and #6), and the only other team with three in the top 20 is Philadelphia (Iguodala at #13, Williams at #15, Hawes at #18).
For minute-adjusted win shares (since win shares are a counting stat, reducing them for bench players), Anderson is #2 and Redick #3, behind LeBron. Louis Williams and Kevin Love round out the top 5.
Anderson and Redick are now both averaging over 20 points per 36 minutes (23.1 for Anderson, 20.5 for Redick). The last Magic duo to do that were Steve Francis and Grant Hill.
Dwight Howard’s scoring should improve – he hasn’t scored this little on a per-minute basis since the 2005-06 season, when he was 20 years old. However, he’s fouling at the lowest rate for his career, and rebounding and assisting at the highest rates in his career.
Anderson currently has a PER of 27.5. How ridiculous is that? Well, last year, LBJ had the highest PER in the league – at 27.3.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jan 2, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good stats.
But let’s keep them in the longer term perspective by tossing in the applicable “sample size warning.” :)
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
Heck, everything at this point is Small Sample Size
Around the All-Star break is when we’ll start having sample sizes I’m actually confident in. There will always be a couple guys that suddenly get hot or fall off the face of the Earth late in the season, but for probably 90% of the players, how they do up to the ASG will be a pretty good predictor of the rest of their season. In a longer season, it’d be earlier time-wise, but I want 25-30 games for things to settle down before I consider those ratings to be a reasonable indicator.
Bob.
Welcome back!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC North Champion
Orlando Magic... 1995 and 2009 Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 1, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
p_ ss poor defence - p_ss poor point guard
play most of the game and yet we are fortunate enough to win the game. Credit to the team’s resiliance – may it continue!
I was a big critic of Redick during the last few years but to his credit he has worked his butt off and become a good player.
the Magic's game was so ugly that I left with about 9 minutes left in the 4th quarter to grab some lunch
(I’m writing this from Australia)
lo and behold, once I had microwaved my leftovers and checked the score, it had gone from a 13 point deficit into 5… then 2… then a lead… Some of those three pointers were reminiscent of 2009, especially that Hedo one. But there’s so much more to like about this team than last year. Ball movement is better, especially from Dwight. He’s still getting points, but the others are getting their fair share as well. To be honest, I’d rather that than Dwight scoring 40 a night any everyone else not getting past double digits.
Is anyone else dying a little inside everytime
Davis attempts a long distance 2? Especially considering how much bass has been tearing t up in Boston. Why couldn’t bass backup Dwight at the 4 again?
by WhatAboutFran on Jan 2, 2012 12:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
He did, but he's 2 inches sorter than Davis.
Height wise, Bass is on the small side for a PF – let alone logging lots of minutes at C.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
Davis is 6'8" too.
Or 6’9" — he lists at 6’9" now, but listed at 6’8" in the draft. He’s bigger, certainly, but not that much taller.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Bass's draft measurements.
6’ 6.25"
RAWR! (╯°□°）╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ
by aTasteLikeBurning on Jan 2, 2012 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
I except his shot to come back, it's a matter of time- hopefully not as long as Chris Duhon
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
by 4QB on Jan 2, 2012 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
I just used Duhon's first name today
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
by 4QB on Jan 2, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
*Filed under "2012 is upon us"
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
by 4QB on Jan 2, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
I screamed no at the computer monitor today when that happened. It's not just him missing, it's his technique. Looks horrible to me
But he didn’t chuck it up that much. I think he’ll need to find a way to be more efficient. Defense will earn him minutes though, but too many empty trips in offense will put him below Ryan in the pecking order
Bass is wayyyyyyyyy better than Big baby
in this era of basketball teams can get away with a small center in the rotation
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
do YOU believe in TEBOW
Smallville, J-Rich, and Turk
It was Peaches, Carter, Gortat, and a pick for Earl Clark, Jason Richardville, and Hedo Turkoglu. The problem with keeping Gortat as a backup C was that he makes almost as much money as Bass and Davis combined.
Bob.
Bass has also been tearing up Boston's defensive schemes
Boston’s the 23rd worst defensive team in the league. Bass is one of the worst defenders on that team – out of regular rotation players, only Ray Allen and the ghost of Keyon Dooling have worse defensive ratings than Bass. Yes, he’s shooting well in the first five games of the season, but he’s still got the defensive IQ of a small cucumber.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jan 2, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
small cucumber's are offended by that comparison
"Generally, when I draw the play, it's just who's going where. Maybe I have not made it clear enough that we would like the ball to go in the basket."
by AB's triple double on Jan 2, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you for keeping me from having to write this
There is more to the game than shooting the ball.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
Good lord, thank you.
As much as I dislike Davis’ personality, he passes the ball and doesn’t get lost on rotations. Bass was the dumbest basketball player I’ve ever seen in my life, pro, college, or rec ball. I still have nightmares about him posting up his man… right next to a certain Dwight Howard who already had his man sealed off.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Great game except
I’m wondering if JJ can fill the role of backup PG, so we can let Von Wafer play SG. Duhon is still worthless to me, even with his “decent” past couple games. Plus, Von Wafer can penetrate when our 3 point shot isn’t working cuz we rely on the 3 too much still.
With that said, if Hedo plays like the ’09 Hedo (which he currently is), then this team looks REAL solid, and a lot better than last year, especially with Ryan Anderson performing at a high level CONSISTENTLY, and JJ looking like a stud.
J Rich needs to get his act together and remember how to hit WIDE OPEN 3’s… I think he will bounce back, but he needs to be more consistent. Same goes with Nelson,he needs to play with more energy.
But overall, a GREAT comeback…
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 1:56 AM EST reply actions
I guess Stan can go with a lineup of JJ-Wafer-Hedo-Anderson-Davis
But more often than not he puts Duhon because his defense is above average. Hedo does most of the playmaking anyway.
Yea that would be a cool lineup
have Hedo run the point…I hope SVG tries this at some point
In other interesting news, Im reading ESPN Insider on the top 5 potential first time all stars, and they mention how Rudy Gay’s “lack of passing” can lead him to Orlando…
THAT WOULD BE SO DOPE! I’ve been focusing so much on getting CP3 or Ellis, that I forgot the Grizzs have been rumored in the past to be shopping Gay…the question is, would you give up Ryan Anderson for him?
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions
No
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
by 4QB on Jan 2, 2012 3:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely not.
Rudy is a 15-18 PPG scorer who’s not especially efficient, doesn’t do much else well, and plays a position where we already have a starter. Anderson is a much, much better scorer who actually fills a need for us.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
yea im starting to agree haha
Ryan Anderson is the GREAT WHITE HOPE!!! him and redick…they are playing outta their minds, this is so fun to watch
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 3:16 AM EST up reply actions
but i think you're undervaluing Rudy Gay
he can block shots, shoot 3s, and is clutch..he had 2 game winners against Miami i think
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
Rudy Gay has averaged 0.8 blocks for his career, he’s a 35% three-point shooter at fairly low volume, and “clutch” isn’t a real thing.
More to the point, his career true shooting hovers around league average — 54%. He’s a decent rebounder for his position, and I’ve heard good things about his defense, but I’d say he’s only somewhat above league average as a starter. The fact that a guy gets a big volume of shots doesn’t make him a better player — that just means he plays in an offense that gives him a bunch of shots.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
what bout for Deron Williams?
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 3:57 AM EST up reply actions
Not going to happen for several reasons.
Cap reasons, the fact that we only have three playable big men on the roster, and the fact that the Nets would never do it. Aside from that, of course you’d have to consider it.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Maybe J-Rich, Earl Clark, and Duhon for Rudy Gay.
Doubt they’d do it though.
by Justin85 on Jan 2, 2012 4:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And play Gay at SG?
And play who at backup PG? That doesn’t fit what we need.
And yeah, they wouldn’t do it anyway.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Also
I was an Otis supporter, even when he did those trades last year…while i admit i’ve grown to dislike him due to Dwight demanding a trade earlier this season, you have to give credit when credits due.That trade that Otis did with NJ, VC and Anderson for Lee, Battie, and Alston, is a STEAL!!!! Once Anderson rebounds the ball more, he’s gonna be an all star REAL SOON.
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 2:27 AM EST reply actions
one last thing
I’m kinda wishing that Otis didn’t resign J Rich and kept Arenas now, given Anderson and Redick stepping their game up, and we would have a decent backup sg in Von Wafer…Arenas might have been bad last season, but he was a lot more usable than Chris Poohon…but I guess Otis couldn’t have predicted it, although I’m curious as to why he obtained Wafer if we arent even gonna play him.. SVG needs to stop playing Poohon and try the lineup of
Pg: Redick
Sg: Wafer
Sf: Turk/J Rich
Pf: Anderson
C: Davis
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well, right now, Duhon is a solid backup.
Whereas Arenas chucked plenty of low-percentage shots and disrupted the offense. That’s not the main point — the main point is that they needed to get Arenas’ contract off the cap — but Duhon this year does what he does and doesn’t cause trouble.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
i guess
compared to last year, Duhon is playing better…but he still sucks in my opinion…look at this mixtape:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNmNj_zsVyU&feature=related
Look at the last play Wafer does, this dude is a BALLER! I think he could guard the Pgs on defense, and then have Hedo handle the ball most the time. I think that lineup would be 10x better, than with Duhon on the floor
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 3:17 AM EST up reply actions
oops i forgot what you were responding too
I’d still have Arenas over Duhon ANYDAY…Arenas can at least score, and pass the ball to Dwight, and drive down the middle of the lane and actually do something
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 3:20 AM EST up reply actions
sorry, let me fix that for you
Arenas can at least (chuck the ball and miss), and pass the ball to Dwight (as well as committing turnovers), and drive down in the middle of the lane and actually do something (like get 1 inch elevation off his dodgy knee and take running jump shots that never go in)
You know there’s a reason no one has signed him yet – whilst other amnesties were instantly snapped up.
Arenas and Duhon both had ORtgs of 88 with Orlando last year
The difference is, Duhon had a USG% that was half of Arenas, so his suck only sucked half as much as Arenas’ suck.
Bob.
And this season, Duhon's stats are killing Gilbert's
In both rating and usage
If the Magic must trade Dwight, Hedo better stay. He needs to retire a Magic.
I underestimated him because of his epic-fail last year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmz0qQp4OmI&feature=fvwrel…. couldn’t stop laughing
I'm a guy
Well, no.
Wafer is not a point guard. And highlights aren’t basketball.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Duhon is now what I expected him to be last year ... a "solid backup", as you have noted.
Last year he was so hesitant to shoot, which has somewhat changed this year although not to the extent I may have wished for. Looking at that preseason game with MIA, it is still intriguing to see how Hughes may compete with Duhon for minutes at guards’ position.
by Matt1325 on Jan 2, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, god, Hughes.
I hope not. It’s like they decided “hey, we don’t have Arenas any more, who’s going to to be our terrible combo guard with no basketball IQ?”
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
LOL. I guess you did not watch that MIA game.
I did not have high hopes on Hughes, and not saying that one game is any indicator, but Hughes looked good in that game and run the PG position effectively.
Eh...
…I didn’t see that one preseason game, but I have seen the last eight or so years of Hughes’ career.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Hughes played great in that game and was key in the comeback
His other minutes this season have not been like that game, unfortunately.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
Yeah, I can see that.
Hughes does a lot of risky low-percentage stuff… if he gets lucky on some of it, he probably does look good. It’s just that the odds catch up with him in the long run.
He’s not like Gilbert, who literally can’t do anything any more. I could see Hughes being pretty decent if he plays within himself — I just can’t imagine that this is the year he finally learns to do that, even outside of the fact that he’s now 32 and has been out of the league for a year.
And with Duhon not being awful thus far at the backup point, and Richardson and Redick both commanding big minutes at the 2 (and Wafer standing behind them, and then Liggins in garbage time?), I just don’t see where Hughes fits in. I called him a combo guard, but let’s face it, he’s a natural SG — a position where he’s no. 4 on the depth chart, and the team has more incentive to play the no. 5 guy for the future.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
I think he's more like Rafer Alston for the Magic position-wise.
He’s got an erratic shot and decent handle. He gambles too much, but he’s got length to effectively guard against taller PGs.
Obviously, he’s the 3rd string guy so you have insurance at the PG spot. If he plays, it’s going to be because someone else is injured or ejected. But when he does play, he’ll be used like Rafer. In those emergency situations SVG will attempt to limit his shot attempts (if possible) by having Hedo or even JJ be the primary shot creators and Hughes guards the guy that JJ can’t.
So, while I (obviously) don’t want Larry Hughes starting in the playoffs, I think he can/will fill holes on the floor in a very similar manner.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
"Decent handle" how so?
Hughes, 2009-10: 24.8 MPG, 3.0 APG.
Hughes, 2008-09: 26.9 MPG, 2.9 APG.
Hughes, 2007-08: 29.7 MPG, 3.4 APG.
Hughes, career: 30.9 MPG, 3.2 APG.
Alston, with Orlando: 29.5 MPG, 5.1 APG
Alston, career: 28.9 MPG, 4.8 APG
When the Magic got Alston, he was coming off four seasons with Houston/Toronto in which he had averaged between 5.4 and 6.7 assists a game. He’s a point guard. Hughes is 32, and has never been a point guard.
And I’ll believe Hughes can play defense when I see it. He was always a lousy man-to-man defender who got an undeserved reputation as a strong defender because he played the passing lanes instead of his man. And yeah, you can get away with a bit of that when you’re guarding a SG. But against a PG? No chance. Add in the fact that he’s 32 and coming off a year out of the league, and I just don’t see him being able to keep up with anyone.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Off topic, but
Does your handle 3.3seconds refer to the 21 jump street episode?
by Justin85 on Jan 2, 2012 4:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nope.
It refers to a play Darrell Armstrong made once.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BQSq31ZfzCg
(Starts at 1:20 or so.)
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
by 3.3seconds on Jan 2, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
After watching the video, I totally remember wathcing that play live when it happened.
I also really miss Darrell Armstrong!
Could you imagine if Nelson played with that much energy and hustle. Or anyone on our team for that matter. I believe it could literally push us into title contention if we had someone like that.
by Justin85 on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Three things:
1) Hedo tried to draw a foul when shooting one of those three pointers in the 4th. He missed the defender entirely, heaved up the ball on a prayer anyway, and it somehow fell in. Vintage 08/09 Hedo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh6npHfQm6U)
2) Anderson defended Bargnani poorly and that worries me. There aren’t many PFs like Bargnani but having him defend against Kevin Garnett might be an exceptional problem come playoff time
3) I heard somebody call Ryan ‘The Rhino’. Please, let’s not use that nickname ever again
You're not the arbiter on that nickname
I’m quite sure his teammates call him that too – “Superman” sounds ridiculous for Dwight but it stuck.
The three pointer he wasn't trying to draw the foul. He ducked under his man so that he could shoot the three.
I don’t call Ryan “Rhino” but if people want to they can. It’s just a nickname. And Anderson played Bargnani pretty well. Andrea used many post moves and Anderson had to respect the man’s jumper so he couldn’t try to cheat the first step like you can most PF’s. I have no worries about how him guarding other PF’s this year; he’ll be fine.
"If Dwight spent more time practicing and less time b!tching, then maybe he’d be playing a little better." -My Mom
Trade Proposal For Deron
Redick, Harper, Liggens, Clark, 5 #1 picks for Deron Williams and Mehmet Okur
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Jan 2, 2012 4:25 AM EST reply actions
Hmm if I were the Nets I'd want Anderson and not Clark
And where would the 5 first round picks come from?
So the Nets just give up any chance of landing Howard?
unless comes out and flatly states that he will not sign with the Nets we aren’t getting Deron. Magic fans need to ask themselves is this guy worth it? He was one of the main reason’s (headaches) that NBA legend HC Jerry Sloan just quit. He has been injured and unimpressive the past 2 years. The guy seems like a douche to me personally
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jan 2, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I've had this concern as well
He’s a great player, but there are definitely chemistry questions. Of course, winning cures lots of chemistry problems. Still, it is a valid concern. The one positive is that it seems like a lot of his prickishness is rooted in wanting to win, but still a question mark.
I'm torn. Is JJ Redick the White Mamba or the White Ray Allen?
I'd say the injuries are maybe even more of a question mark.
He has a nominal three-point shot but isn’t a great outside shooter, so he has to be able to drive the lane in order to remain an offensive threat. He’s more of a power guy than a speed guy, so he can’t really afford to lose a lot of foot speed. And he’s shot 35% from the field since joining the Nets, so I think it’s valid to ask whether some kind of physical decline is affecting him. (Granted, it’s only 17 games, and you’d expect some decline due to the Nets’ general crappiness, but that’s a big drop.)
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
This is true.
Deron Williams. Deron Williams? Seriously?
Deron Williams is a borderline top 10 PG.
Think about it. Here are the PGs that are definitely better than him:
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
And here are the PGs that are arguably about the same:
Steve Nash
Tony Parker
And here are the young PGs that are one jump away from being better than Williams:
Stephen Curry
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Brandon Jennings
Jrue Holiday / Louis Williams
Ty Lawson
Ricky Rubio
Kyrie Irving
D.J. Augustin
Depending on how you feel about Parker and Nash at this point, Williams is maybe the 5th best PG in the league. And holding on by a thread. How long until one of the younger PGs knocks him further down the list? (probably already happened judging by the way Williams has been playing)
So with all of the Howard to the Nets talk I feel like we’ve had Williams shoved down are throats. Like we are forced to accept that Williams is an elite talent that would pair perfectly with Howard. I don’t buy it.
He’s an aging mobility challenged PG with injury problems and character issues that is barely holding on to all-star consideration.
RAWR! (╯°□°）╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ
by aTasteLikeBurning on Jan 2, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'd take him over...
…Westbrook, definitely. Parker, definitely at this point. Rondo, maybe depending on the team. Nash, maybe, depending on how good Nash is. (But of course Nash is nothing to build around at this point.)
I like Curry better than him, but I suspect I overestimate Curry. Jury’s still out on whether Wall can help his team win, or whether he’s a modern-day Stephon Marbury/Steve Francis/Baron Davis like Westbrook. Lowry is beyond mediocre, Jennings is a disaster, Holiday and Williams are non-entities, Lawson is intriguing but I can’t help feeling like he’s a product of his system, there’s no way of knowing WHO Rubio and/or Irving is, and I’m pretty convinced Augustin just gets his numbers because there’s nobody else on that horrendous Charlotte team to get them.
So yeah… Rose, Paul, maybe Wall, maybe Curry. Williams is clearly top 5, maybe top 3.
Bottom line is, he’s an 17/9 guy who doesn’t have the extreme scoring efficiency problems that plague Westbrook and (so far) Wall. And let’s not overestimate this age/injury business… he’s 27 years old, he’s played 65+ games in every season, and it’s not like his skill set is completely defined by his foot speed.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
by 3.3seconds on Jan 2, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I meant “Rose, Paul, probably Rondo, maybe Wall, maybe Curry.” So still, worst-case scenario, no. 6.
Not that I think we need to replace Jameer, mind you. That’s a strong argument to me — the fact that we have a solid starting PG who fits what we need perfectly and knows our system inside and out. (And a SF who would probably struggle if we brought in a PG who monopolizes the ball the way Williams does.)
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
Yeah, I mean, player rankings are a very subjective thing. Everyone likes different players for different reasons.
We’re mostly in agreement.
My major point is that Williams is in a pack, with a good handful of players ahead of him, a fair amount of players around him, and a lot of young players behind him nipping at his heels.
He is not some “once-in-a-generation” player. He is not going to retire and be in the “Greatest-PG-of-all-time” debate.
He seems to have been elevated to superstar status by mere virtue of being in the Howard-Paul free agent class media extravaganza.
In reality he is just a very good very overrated point guard. (cough) product of Utah’s system (cough)
RAWR! (╯°□°）╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ
by aTasteLikeBurning on Jan 2, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You see, I think he’s in the first pack, not the second pack. I’d set the sharp divide between elite and not-elite after the 4-6 guys I named… to my mind, Williams is one of the four players I know is elite.
Not saying the Magic need him. Jameer + Hedo is working just fine, thanks.
It's on like Gregg Zaun!
he’s an upgrade over Jameer so it’s not like I would turn a Deron-Jameer trade down. It’s just beyond impossible for the Magic to trade for him. So, I really don’t know why we’re always talking about it.
RAWR! (╯°□°）╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ
by aTasteLikeBurning on Jan 2, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Williams is not the PG I want on my team, but he's still a top 5 PG easy
The only PG that might’ve jumped him over the years is Rondo for the 3 spot in the league. But I have CP3 and D-Rose as one and two and the rest is subjective. I’d rather have a Steve Nash/Rondo/CP3 point guard than a Deron Williams/D-Rose/Westbrook. We need a high assist guy and not a high scorer who takes ill advised shots but that isn’t the point. To Williams credit, he can destroy the smaller PG’s, he has a a strong body that can take contact when he goes to the lane, and he is an above average defender because of his said body. He’s on a REALLY bad team right now which I think is the main reason for him not being as prolific as he used to be. Heck. He went from having Boozer, Milsap, and Kirilenko on the Jazz to what? Lopez and Morrow? That’s a major downgrade
"If Dwight spent more time practicing and less time b!tching, then maybe he’d be playing a little better." -My Mom
Lets not get carried away
Deron Williams is a legit top 3 PG. He is better than westbrook and rondo.
"I may be wrong...but I doubt it"~Charles Barkley
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