On Gilbert
Dwight Howard has expressed his displeasure with the way the Orlando Magic used Gilbert Arenas last season. "I just felt like he didn’t get the opportunity to play his style but also play with me," Orlando's franchise cornerstone told Jorge Sierra of HoopsHype.com. "I think he needed to. I think he got a couple of opportunities to do it in the playoffs, but it was kind of too late."
Arenas, who finished no worse than seventh in the league in scoring for three straight seasons earlier in his career, arrived in Orlando via a trade with the Washington Wizards last December. Brought in to bolster Orlando's offense, he faltered, shooting 34.4 percent from the field while shooting more often, per minute, than every Magic player apart from Howard. Though he showed aptitude in pushing the pace in transition and running the high pick-and-roll, Arenas did precious little else well, committing too many turnovers and proving to be a liability on defense.
Yet perhaps he, more than any Magic player other than Howard, might be the key to Orlando's future, according to not a few analysts, as well as Magic fans who've tweeted me. Orlando's biggest issue going forward is its lack of dynamic perimeter scoring, which Arenas can provide in spurts if healthy. Indeed, in his last injury-free season, Arenas averaged 28.4 points, good for third in the league. That's the good news. The bad is that it was five years ago, in the 2006/07 campaign. That was the year, you may recall, wherein Darko Milicic was a rotation player for Orlando. Yup.
What are we to make of Howard's claims? And can Arenas return to a form approximating his former self?
First, we need to unpack what Howard means by "his style." Arenas' is to dominate the ball and try to break defenses down off the dribble, usually going toward the basket, potentially to draw fouls. He is what one might call a classic scoring point guard. When at his best, he doesn't even need the help of a screen to get to where he wants to go.
But the whole "dominate the ball" thing isn't part of coach Stan Van Gundy's offense, which instead preaches spacing and quick, smart ball movement to create open shots. The Magic haven't employed a player who so desperately needs the ball, as Arenas does, during Van Gundy's tenure. Moreover, Van Gundy's previous backup point guards tended to be game-manager types. He tasked Carlos Arroyo, Anthony Johnson, Jason Williams, and (briefly) Chris Duhon to run the offense, distribute, and shoot only when necessary. Keyon Dooling proved to be the exception, with Van Gundy using him as the go-to scorer for his second unit in 2007/08.
Of course, Otis Smith didn't trade for Arenas expecting him to play like Anthony Johnson. He traded for Arenas to play like Gilbert Arenas. Arenas tried to oblige--as I said, he shot more frequently on a per-minute basis than all Orlando players save for Howard--but only saw the court for 21.8 minutes per game, on average. Obviously, he played miserably, and perhaps that word works two ways: "miserably" as in "poorly," and "miserably" as in "sad."
It's possible for score-first point guards to thrive in reserve roles. Look at Louis Williams (13.7 points in 23.3 minutes) in Philadelphia, Leandro Barbosa (13.3 points in 24.1 minutes) in Toronto, or J.J. Barea (9.5 points in 20.6 minutes) in Dallas. The problem for Arenas is adjusting to that role. It's perfectly reasonable that he'd struggle to adapt. He'd come off the bench just 26 times in his nine seasons prior to the last one, and 17 of those were in his rookie year. Then, boom, he arrives in Orlando and comes off the bench 47 times out of 49.
There is something to be said about the difference between starting and coming off the bench. J.J. Redick, Arenas' teammate in the reserve backcourt, has commented on it as well. Starters tend to have more freedom: they usually play more total minutes, and play longer stints than their backups as well. Time is on their side, in multiple ways.
If Arenas' challenge is to adapt to playing fewer minutes, then Van Gundy's is to figure a way to maximize Arenas' skills. Good luck with that.
Arenas has never been a great outside shooter, so spotting up isn't something Van Gundy can count on him to do. And the three operations he's had on his left knee have robbed Arenas of the athleticism which made him a great finisher and foul-drawer. Despite that, I do believe he has to continue driving to the basket; those flat-footed long twos off the dribble are simply hopeless, and the fewer he takes, the better.
Nobody knows quite yet what Arenas is capable of, but if his last four seasons are any indication, it isn't much. Perhaps we ought to give him the benefit of the doubt. Between his injuries, legal issues, and personal problems, he's had to deal with a lot these last few years. I believe there's middle ground between Arenas and Van Gundy. If the two can strike a satisfactory balance, perhaps he can challenge Jameer Nelson for the starting point guard job, which is something Smith has said he'd like to see happen.
What we do know, however, is this: if those two don't meet each other halfway, somehow, and Arenas is again mired on the bench and/or playing ineffective ball next season, Orlando is in a heap of trouble. With no particularly enticing trade assets or salary-cap room, the Magic almost certainly have to improve their offense from within. A bounce-back season from Arenas is their last, best hope of that.
Having laid all that out, it'd be unfair not to mention that Orlando tends to play fairly well with Arenas on the court, and that he's a great passer. His biggest problems pertain to shooting percentage, shot-selection, and defense. The first two, one hopes, can be remedied. The last one, however, may not be, given his loss of athleticism. Even a full commitment on that end of the floor may not be enough to make him serviceable there.
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He loves passing to the bench
Amnesty please. If our “last, best hope” is Arenas then we’re already doomed.
what other hope do we have?
Arenas is the only one that has a chance to play way better. Well, besides the whole team in the playoffs. No one played worse than Arenas (Duhon’s play won’t affect the future the the franchise), so I think he has the most room for improvement.
I’d love to hear stan’s views on what Howard said.
"Generally, when I draw the play, it's just who's going where. Maybe I have not made it clear enough that we would like the ball to go in the basket."
by AB's triple double on Jun 20, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Arenas isn't turning it around
I’d love to eat my words here, but I don’t see it happening. If we’re pinning all our hopes of Howard staying on Arenas’ play then we’re toast.
My question is
Why would we use the Amnesty on someone who Dwight directly says he wants the ability to have on the court with him? That sounds like the complete opposite of what we should do, unless we can use the amnesty and bring him back on a smaller contract; however, I believe that one of the clauses in the amnesty agreement opposes that when used? Am I correct?
Fear the Beard!
by BleedingBlueSince89 on Jun 20, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
And when Arenas sucks again next year
Dwight will surely be happy since he was the one that wanted him to stay. Right? RIGHT?
No.
We keep Dwight by putting the franchise in the position to be a contender and selling him on a solid and short (as possible) rebuilding plan. It is not a contender right now because of the desperation trades that have made the team worse each season since our finals appearance.
by aakks on Jun 20, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this
And if you look around this site, I’ve been a proponent of this plan. The problem for me is hearing Dwight say that he wants some input on personnel decisions, and then to just turn a blind eye to what he’s asking. “We know you want to see what Gilbert can do, but we think it’s best to go a different direction.” I wouldn’t be happy hearing that. IDK Personal opinion I guess.
Fear the Beard!
by BleedingBlueSince89 on Jun 20, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand where you're coming from
I just also think that plugging Gil in as the starter and letting Gil be Gil will be a disaster. And I don’t think a disaster is the way to convince Dwight to come back, even if that’s what he thinks he wants. Like you said, personal opinion.
It seems like a lose-lose unfortunately
Maybe Dwight knows that Gilbert will be horrible and he wants him to play so he can say “Look at how horrible the team is. I have to leave.” If we don’t appease him, it could be the “They wouldn’t give me any input on decisions.” Could be why he said it. Sigh…
Fear the Beard!
by BleedingBlueSince89 on Jun 20, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm trying to give Dwight the benefit of the doubt here
I think he’s just frustrated right now and that’s coming out in his (sometimes confusing) comments.
If you remember the picnic that Dwight put on a few weeks ago
Who was standing in the picture with Dwight?? Gilbert!!! I think he is in Dwight’s ear!! Good plan Otis!!
Also,
the comments a while back after the playoff loss to Atlanta, it was Gilbert who was heard to say “Why would he sign an extension when he can sign a max contract?” It does sound like Gilbert is stirring the pot with both hands.
Fear the Beard!
by BleedingBlueSince89 on Jun 20, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
D12 wants player personnel inputs
BUT – it’s highly unlikley that if things bomb that he’d take ownership, say he had a hand in the decision and is going to stay with Orlando. If the team isn’t better by the end of next year, I still see him leaving even if he had personnel input.
Live life to the fullest, and do it in the fast lane
Gilbert is our only and best hope?
I just can’t see Gilbert ever getting along with Stan for this partnership to work. Gilbert is almost the anti-Stan. OR Gilbert was the anti-Stan when he had all the talent, no he is anti-basketball I guess.
I am made of bits of real panther so you know I'm good.
Man, I expected some folks around here to have those type of comments aout Gil,
but coming from Dwight,WTF. Didn’t he see him play last season ? Is this cause he knows he’s stuck with him and tries to find some “positive thinking” ? or is this one of those “shots at Stan” he enjoys from time to time ? Either way, that wa a weird comment.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Yuck - time to give up my season tickets - I'm not paying to see the Gil show
Live life to the fullest, and do it in the fast lane
Aren't Dwight's comments essentially a clear distancing from Jameer?
The prevailing storyline of the last seven years has been the notion that Jameer was Dwight’s boy and was protected by him. Dwight wanting GIlbert on the floor with him is Dwight saying Jameer isn’t the #1 PG I want anymore.
That was the case last year when D12 requested CP3.
If you don't have anything good to say about the Cards this season, you'd be correct.
by hevchv on Jun 20, 2011 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I appreciate D12 for trying....
There’s no pleasing you guys sometimes. Knock it if you want, but I’m a huge believer of “If you don’t believe in yourself—who will?” So if Dwight (the superstar who actually plays with Gilbert) is optimistic, why can’t we be optimistic about him? Would you rather Dwight trash talk the whole organization like some\most of the bloggers do?
I think he's trying to make the most out of what we currently have, which isn't a bad idea.
He could be trying to engineer a healthy battle between Jameer and Gil for that starting spot. I’m pretty sure he’d rather the team be successful with him there than leave and start over again. Yes people here are very pessimistic but with good reason too. I think in the end it’d be better to try and retain some form of hope or positive thinking than writing ourselves of before anything is set in stone.
*Que Star Wars Music*
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
I think I meant cue
:D
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jun 20, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
This seems appropriate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPf-MRKITg
I don't get the whole 'pop-tart cats pooping rainbows thing,' but then, I'm old. So, there it is.
I have a feeling Gilbert's goofy nature appeals to Howard.
And Howard likes Gil for Gil, and that translates to him wanting to see Gil succeed on the floor.
I seriously doubt Howard is thinking in real terms of Gilbert’s numerous knee surgeries, his unwillingness to cut weight or adapt, or the incredible strain his contract is putting on the franchise.
Pure speculation, of course.
It's one thing to believe in yourself (or have Dwight believe in you).
It’s quite another thing to actually have the ability to do what you believe you can. Unfortunately for the Magic, that is where Arenas actually finds himself. He has, over the course of the past four seasons, shown that he’s not nearly as good as he thinks he is. He has no athleticism left, which happens to be THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that a speed-based perimeter player like Arenas needs to be successful. But because of his injuries, he doesn’t have “it”, so he’s not successful.
More to the point: he can’t shoot, can’t shoot the right shots, he can’t defend, and he can’t keep his mouth from saying really dumb things. Those are some pretty gaping holes in his game (and his face).
And I’m just saying, but the 4 awful years he’s had since his injuries are a larger sample size than those three years in Washington when he had a 20+ PER. He’s been writing checks his body can’t cash for years now, and he hasn’t hit (and won’t hit) the new-body lottery. The Arenas we see now is the real Arenas.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 20, 2011 10:26 AM EDT reply actions
I'm going to take the liberty of reposting most of a comment that I made on another fanshot, since it is much more relevant here.
Again, the reason that I’m not optimistic about Arenas at all is because his knees are ruined to the point of him never being the same player again.
Between April 4, 2007, and September 17, 2008, Arenas had three separate surgeries on his left knee. The first two were to repair torn menisci, and the third was to "remove lingering debris, which has caused continual pain and discomfort". Individually, these are probably not career-ending. Cumulatively, it is a different story.
All of his surgeries result from the meniscus tears (the menusci are specific pieces of cartilage in the knee). Cartilage damage is scary stuff. I’m sure you’ve heard of microfracture surgery; the whole reason athletes undergo this risky procedure is a desperate attempt to fix cartilage damage. Cartilage injuries can absolutely be career enders – look at Brandon Roy. Consequently, Arenas has developed arthritis. More specifically, Arenas suffers from osteoarthritis, which results from the breakdown of cartilage. By definition, his cartilage is not still functional.
And then there’s the empirical evidence. Just look at him try for a simple layup, and you immediately see a player that is completely robbed of both explosion and lift. No explosion and lift? That’s not what you’d expect from a 29-year-old player. But it certainly is something you’d expect from a player with knees that are old enough in basketball and injury years to have their own hip replacement procedures.
Gilbert Arenas has absolutely had destructive injuries, has arthritis and cartilage damage, clearly has no explosion and lift, and all of this is permanent. He’s done, drained, spent, used up, and finished as a productive basketball player. Anyone who thinks otherwise is insane, wrong, and Otis Smith. (And now also apparently Dwight)
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 20, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Not disagreeing w your larger point
But he played 234 games in 3 years from the 2004-05 thru 2006-07 season (when he had the 20+ PER). He’s only played a total of 114 games in the 4 years since. Not sure how the last 4 years are a larger sample size.
by Three The Hardaway on Jun 20, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I kinda looked it as it’s a longer period of time, plus the fact that he missed so many games actually is part of my point. That point being that he’s not physically the same player.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 20, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a fair point, but it could also be argued that because he’s missed so much time, we haven’t seen him play a full season in a consistent role with him being properly conditioned since the knee surgeries. The closest example we’ve seen of well-conditioned, post-surgery Gilbert was the 2009-10 season, as he averaged almost 23 and 7 assists/gm in 32 games before the suspension. He seemed to be returning to a level consistent with his wonder years in the mid 2000’s (including the middling fg%). And that sample was only a year and half ago. To be clear, I was not a proponent of the Arenas trade, and I recognize that an Arenas comeback is about as far from a sure thing as you can get, but to believe that there is absolutely no chance for improvement, and that he’s ‘done, drained, spent, used up, and finished’ seems just as far off given the very recent evidence to the contrary. Sorry for the run-on.
by Three The Hardaway on Jun 20, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He missed 12 games this season (I’m assuming all relating to the knee). He was not in good condition this past season as we all know.
by Three The Hardaway on Jun 20, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks. too lazy to look up.
He was not in good condition. But why wasn’t he in good condition? People say he’s not motivated to get in shape during last offseason in Washington. If that’s true, I just don’t like the attitude. As a professional player, your job is get ready to play basketball.
Especially at that salary
Not making excuses for the guy because there are none, but perhaps it could have been the direction that the Wizards franchise took that bummed him out and/or de-motivated him. They essentially took the keys from him and handed them over to the rookie John Wall. The Wizards have also been on the rebuild for some time now, so perhaps having an offseason with a winning organization and a hard-working superstar can change his attitude. Again, I’m not getting my hopes up, but I do think that the surrounding environment can impact a change.
by Three The Hardaway on Jun 20, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair...
Arenasa was doing about 10,5,5 when he first got here. Offense was much faster, assists were up, fast break points up, shooting % up, and the defense per 100 possessions was technically better. On the counterside he was inefficient. But with Gil you literally have to close your eyes and let things happen. SVG tried to contain him, he lost confidence, papers, fans, media, wife all collapsed on him. I don’t like what comes out of his mouth, and he is a slight headcase, but I think he does want to win.
Having said that, I do not think he will be here, with the amnesty clause coming.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Arenas needs a motivator. If motivated, and pushed hard by trainers, Gil could be what we need
I still hold hope for Gil to return to a feared scorer. He just needs to get his confidence back up, and with a strong summer of workouts and being healthy for the first time, I think we will see him come back with a renewed sense of competitiveness. Granted he is on the downslope as of now, if he can right the ship, I like our chances with Gil on the roster. Honestly, I would LOVE to see him start efficiently, and then have Jameer be a spark off the bench.
We should all wait to see Gil after the summer is over to determine whether or not he will be any good for the Magic from there on.
I can also remember Carter coming in at the start of last season . . . .
in much better shape than after the ECF final loss to the Celtics in 2009-2010. That didn’t work out too well.
I would also love to see Gil start the season hot. But the reality is he’s one of the highest paid players in the league and not close to contributing what he’s being paid. My hope is for full amnesty that goes against the team cap as well as lux tax and that the Magic use it. If we use amnesty, we’ll not be able to resign him. So be it. I have far less fear of Gil signing with another team and hurting us than I do with the downright frightening fear of the Magic being saddled with his $60M over he next 3 years. The amnesty thing is likely for this year only with the new CBA. USE IT if it comes in the new CBA.
I don’t have $60+M of optimism that he’ll somehow return to 2006 level and his contract will be good for the Magic in the long term.
Live life to the fullest, and do it in the fast lane
by UCLA_Alum on Jun 20, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jun 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take Darko being a rotation player for us
in a heartbeat if it means we can get rid of Agent Goose Egg
Let me start by saying I have nothing to back this up
And this is only an opinion from a devout Magic fan, but I feel if we give Gil the chance, he can produce for us. And I think Dwight feels the same. I read every argument against him, see the stats, and yet I still have this feeling.
I mean, I think if given 30 mpg like Jameer is given, he could produce better stats if in shape. We can expect less efficiency, but as said here multiple time when you have a player as efficient as Dwight you can afford to have a player like Arenas.
That being said, if we get an amnesty clause I would use it in a heartbeat. I wouldnt pay any player 17 million for a big maybe. But if we dont get amnesty we should jump on board and hope for the best!
Only way to deal with this situation. Ship em' both out.
Been saying it and will continue to say it. Dwight is leaving. He’s setting up every excuse possible via his last 5 public statements. It couldn’t be more clear to me. If Otis must be fired soon and ANY possible GM candidate must be brought in with the goal of finding the best possible trade for Dwight. The key to this new GM’s move must be finding a way to include Gilbert in any trade for Dwight. I promise you, without a shadow of a doubt, the Dwight era in Orlando is over. We must embrace the opportunity to clean house, save a few bucks and start fresh. Counting on Gil to have a great season and thrill Dwight into staying is a ludicrous fantasy. It’s just not gonna happen… and Dwight knows it.
Danger Zone
by IsisAgentArcher on Jun 21, 2011 2:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Arenas
I don’t care what Dwight says or what Otis says or even what Rich DeVos says until that new CBA is done, Arenas’ standing on the team is sketchy at best with a healthy dose of underwhelming. Can he do better? Yes, but so can the entire team.
Get out of my House!
I don't know.
Hoping Gilbert comes around now is kinda like hoping Greg Oden gets healthy. Some things just ain’t happening.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
Hoping Gilbert stops being goofy with groupies
is like hoping Oden gets healthy. Best case scenario for him is to have a Grant Hill like comeback.
Listen to Otis
http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/otisinterview4_062211.mp3
he first needs to get healthy before we should critique him
Statistically, any chance of Arenas' improvement with serious impact is slim to none regardless of the level of discipline, on which he has not been so good in the last 3 years.
As for Dwight’s input, I am sure you have heard of the old say about feeding the dragon; the more one feeds the dragon, the more the dragon would want. I am not saying that is the case with Dwight, but it has been with LeBron James who eventually dashed all the hopes and aspirations of a city – or even a state – despite CAVS giving in to all his whims.
I mentioned earlier that a line of communication between the ownership and a COMPETENT GM with Dwight should be kept open to REALISTICALLY address his concerns. It would be foolish to give in to some demands which would destroy any chances of winning championship next season, and since that has been Dwight’s condition for staying we end up losing him anyways but leave the franchise in ruins, in the process.

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