What kind of player would be ideal for the Orlando Magic?
by Jtyler998 on Jun 2, 2011 2:26 PM EDT
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PrintI find the debate regarding a hypothetical trade for Monta Ellis pretty interesting. On one hand you have some eager Magic fans, who are drawn by Ellis' aggressiveness and scoring ability. On the other, you have Evan and others (myself included) who are quick to point out Ellis' high volume, sloppy play. He would not fit smoothly into Stan Van Gundy's offense.
My question is, who would?
Ever since the NBA Finals run of 2009, Otis Smith has worked to fill an apparent hole at two guard; more specifically, a hole in the offense, the lack of a dynamic scoring option. He traded for Vince Carter, then traded Carter for Jason Richardson.
As Evan has pointed out, on paper Richardson fit in great. He's a historically great perimeter shooter who can, when necessary, attack the basket. Unfortunately he never really became the player we thought he would.
And holding on the Carter likely wouldn't have paid off either, as his decline in Phoenix suggests.
But who, then, is the guy? A better question is: what do the Magic need (short of cap room to sign Chris Paul) to curb two straight years of decline?
What would be a prototypical two guard be able to do in Stan Van Gundy's systems, and who in the NBA comes closest?
Even if he is a bit of a reach (and someone who has been mentioned on these boards a lot ) I think Andre Iguodala might be the best fit. His perimeter shooting could stand to improve, but he's a dynamic scorer who can rebound, move the ball and defend very, very well. He may not be Dwyane Wade, but he can certainly create his own shot.
Assuming we can't pull Iggy, who is the closest comparison? And who comes after that? Name names.
And if Iguodala isn't a good fit for SVG's system, who is and why?
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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This is a great post question
Depends. Even a Chris Paul is not enough. To me, even though Paul is better if the Magic could only bring one guy it would be Deron Williams. Just because he is bigger. And he is a little more aggressive than Paul. Don’t get me wrong Paul is better, but if I could only have one player it would have to be Williams. Having said that, I am interested in Ellis. But Ellis alone does not make Orlando a great team. To me you would have to get Iguodala and Ellis. I know Ellis is not efficient, but that is fine. Dwight Howard is uber efficient. So I think Orlando needs someone like Ellis. Ellis is vastly underrated on defense, and he would fit this defense fine. To me though you would have to put him at point. Yes I know this is where everyone jumps on and says he is not a PG. What is the difference between someone like Ellis and say Rose and Westbrook? All three are basically the same type of player. Ellis is not as good as those two, but again with Dwight Howard as the numero uno he does not have to. Iggy could play the two or three. So you put Ellis on Wade and Iggy on LeBron. Then Dwight Howard dominates. If you put the right players there it could work. My lineup that seems semi plausible would be-
Ellis
Iggy
Clark
Anderson
Howard.
Blend of offense and defense.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
But do you think SVG wants a player like Ellis?
SVG is an offensive strategist. He’s not the kind of coach who wants to effectively turn a guy loose. Arenas is already frustrated by this, and Ellis would be no different. And I’m disinclined to think a player like Ellis would adapt his game.
Are there any talented, young game-managing point guards who aren’t CP3 or Deron Williams? Playmakers who can score, rather than scorers who can make plays?
The main reason I like Iggy is his defensive play, and his explosiveness on offense. We wouldn’t need him to put up 20-25ppg, but in the event our offense slows down he does have the ability to create shots.
Still, I feel like SVG needs a scoring option at the 2. A great shooter who can score off the dribble. The problem is, I can’t think of anybody who fits this description who isn’t a loose, freestyle player like Ellis.
Eric Maynor
No idea how hard it would be to get him. Unless OKC wants some “veteran leadership.” But he could he a great fit.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
. . .
The team clearly needs a player who can create their own shot. All we’ve got is Jameer & Dwight, and that’s not enough. Too many times, we’ve seen the perimeter guys shoot contested threes and miss ‘em, because they all rely on everyone else to get them shots rather than themselves. I think Monta Ellis could be a good option. He can clearly create his own shot and do it rather efficiently, and he’s a high-minute player, so he could even play point for stretches with Jameer on the bench.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jun 2, 2011 5:35 PM EDT reply actions
I don't see how he's inefficient
Career 47% shooter (53% TS%), increased his 3P% each of the last 3 seasons, up to a very respectable 36% this previous season.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jun 2, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he has a bad rap
He had a really great season this season. I, personally, think you can mold him into Rose. Eric Maynor and OJ Mayo could be a nice back court. But you still need an Iggy. Also I don’t mind Beasley. If you could find a way to get Mayo, Maynor, and Beasley you got something. Especially around Dwight.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
As "bad" as Vince and J-Rich were for us last season...
they each still had higher TS%‘s with us than Ellis did despite Ellis’ improved efficiency. If Vince and J-Rich (both first-options with their respective teams prior to Orlando) fell off a cliff here, how do you think Ellis (first-option, high-volume, low-efficiency scorer in an uptempo offense) would do here since he wouldn’t be a first-option and would play in a significantly slower paced offense?
I don't think this team needs a guy who can create his own
What this team needs is ball-movement and good team basketball. When they played like a true team and getting each other involved frequently. i say say we would be the best. look at the ball-movement in the Chicago game. look at Game 5. if this team can do that consistently everynight we will be a elite team. sure getting Iggy would be a great upgrade. with the potential we have in clark. and if (and i mean if) Gil can get into better shape. we will have a good team in the magic. but we won’t know until it gets there.
I would normally agree with you.
But the decision happened. The NBA has changed. Ball movement and team ball worked last year. But if you want to beat the Heat you need wings who can defend and create. That’s why I think Orlando needs Maynor, Mayo and one more piece. Iggy could he hard to get. So could Josh Smith. There has to be a 3 who has semi disappointed or is not wanted. Actually J Rich at the 3 if you get Maynor and Mayo would not he bad.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
i do agree with u but,
When i talk about ball-movement look at the Heat when a team starts to use great ball-movement. when the magic did it they came back from a 24 pt lead. Dallas did it tonight. played great D and use great movement and the heat will crumble.
Why bring players that we won't use?
We all agree that we need a player “who can create his own shot”. That’s why we traded for VC, Arenas and Richardson. But we also agree that SVG doesn’t like players to create their shots, but he wants them to shoot after executing plays in an structured offense. So we told VC “you need to be VC”, we tell Richardson “you need to draw fouls as you did in Phoenix”. it was already mentioned Arenas frustation for not being able to play his game (after posting good numbers when being allowed to). But VC wasn’t allowed to play as VC, nor Richardson is allowed to play as he did in Phoenix. So why would we bring another player who can create his own show when we are not going to allow him to create? It seems that the perfect fit for SVG system is someone like Bruce Bowen, a spot up shooter that plays great D. But I really think that if you have the talent you have to use it. SVG should change his offense, and play a “Shaq-Kobe” offense. The guard dribble past his player, if Howard mans rotate, then is an alley oop, if not the guard gets a layup.
Apparently Orlando is looking to bring in an offensive minded assistant like RIck Adelman
to help out because right now our offense is way too simple, either its the P&R or its feeding dwight down low and try and get a double team out of it for the three….we do need guys to create on their own. Richardson couldn’t do that, Vince was barely able to and we allowed him more times than not. We need Iggy and Mayo. Those two would put us over the hump. Defensive guys who can score. Iggy creates for a lot of people, and neither of those guys “NEED” the ball in their hands, making dwight the first option when needed. With Mayo and Iggy we can match up GREAT vs the Heat n LBJ/Wade. Those two actually aren’t that far of a reach at this point.
Especially if there was this whole amnesty rule put in place, HEDO would be gone with Gilbert, we trade for IGGY or Sign him if Phi lets him go, and then can get Mayo pretty easily.
I would be interested in trading Bass, giving Ryno more minutes as he spreads the court on offense and rebounds better, but needs to work on his shooting inside the ARC.
Dwight
Ryno
Iggy
Mayo/Reddick
Nelson
Tell me why a guy like CP3 wouldnt want to come to a team like that in 2 years…
I mean then we can really get crazy and trade Nelso, Ryno, and Orton, for CP3 and Okafor…but I wouldnt count on that happening.
You still have to get a new PG.
I still think Orlando needs to try and target Eric Maynor, OJ Mayo, and I still think you can salvage Michael Besley.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
i agree, but i rather have nelson than maynor...
and i rather barea than maynor also…i also rather donnie walsh than otis smith…i think arenas will improve next year if he’s not gone through amnesty…hedo will be gone with bass…which means clark needs to improve, and we should sign sheldon williams to back up dwight/ryno. He is servicable and def better than malik allen.
I would rather have Maynor than Nelson.
And you do not realize how hard that was for me to type. Seriously.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I don't know.
Maynor knows how to run an offense. His shooting/finishing needs a lot of work, though.
collison doesnt have the ability to score 20 points in one half like jameer did vs the hawks to keep us in the game...
thats why until we have someone else who can score 20 pts a game aside from dwight, we need jameer to play as he does.
I think he does
he’s still very raw, so he’s still developing and learning the game, plus how often do you get a guy who had a year of tutelage from CP3?
Get out of my House!
Well without going back and actually breaking dow n per half
I did find this nifty gem of a game from this year
Minutes played – 31:26 Points scored – 29 Shooting – 12/14 4/5 from 3pt, with 6 assists.
on a per minute basis he’s right there, so the potential for a 20 point half, to me is there.
Get out of my House!
Ideally?
Lebron or Wade.
Realistically? I honestly don’t know.
Fear the Beard!
by BleedingBlueSince89 on Jun 3, 2011 1:02 AM EDT reply actions
Kevin Martin would be the man
Creates his own shot consistently, hits the 3 well, generates alot of FT’s and his defense is not anything Dwight can’t hide or outside of SVG’s help.
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
Very true.
But no one would create for others. Kevin Martin is great, but all he does is score. Literally nothing else. Doesn’t pass, rebound, defend, anything other than score.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I hear you about that, but when our biggest problem is our offense and you want to increase it efficiently
I don’t think you’ll find more realistic option than Kevin Martin. I know there are the rumors that Otis was in conversation w/ the Rockets last yr about him and it is possible that Otis was not willing to give up Jameer, Bass or Redick in a mid-season trade for him.
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
by stanleygoober on Jun 3, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Houston was not ready for to trade Martin for Gortat.
I am sure Otis offered VC expiring and Gortat, but Morey was not ready to hand the franchise over to Gortat. Which makes him look stupid now becasue he traded Battier for Hasheem Thabeet…….
But Orlando needs a creator more than an efficient guy.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
When you say "creator"...
do you mean a guy who can create his own shot, create for others, or both? If you’re talking strictly about a guy who creates his own shot, Kevin Martin would be the perfect fit here. Shoots a very respectable percentage from 3, gets to the line a lot, and is extremely efficient. Despite his lack of other skills, his main problem has been injuries over the years. However, we don’t have the assets to get him, nor do I believe Houston is interested in trading him.
Both
Oh I love Kevin Martin. However on a legit title contender at best he can be your third best player. Or if he plays with an elite passing big or a Chris Paul maybe number two. But he really is a third banana. Ellis despite all his shortcomings could he a second banana. But that depends on the rest of the team.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
O.J. Mayo.
If you don't have anything good to say about the Cards this season, you'd be correct.
by hevchv on Jun 3, 2011 9:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Chris Paul. Deron Williams.
Jameer’s fine, he’s above average, but those type of players make everyone around them look special.
Whoops forgot to add... we also need more "three and D" guys.
Lee, Bogans, Pietrus.. those type of players. If you look at our wing roster, it’s almost counter that: Arenas, Redick, and the Richardsons. It’s mostly threes and little D.
Yea. And Clark is only a good defensive player on certain people
My dream would be to get Shane Battier. He’s a little older but he hits threes pretty well and plays great D on the wings and he doesn’t care about starting or coming off the bench. Sounds like a cool guy
How can we say that the bench wings are defenders?
If they were better defenders Stan would play them more, because he’s all about defense and then the 3.
Get out of my House!
Pass on Ellis; Trade Turk for Iggy
We shouldn’t pull the trigger on a Monta Ellis trade just because it’s the first name to be thrown out there. The Magic would be better served to make a smart trade and pursue this Andre Iguodala for Turkoglu trade
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/213969/Questions_And_Rumors_Of_The_Orlando_Magic
Iguodala is only 27 to Turkoglu’s 32. Iguodala was all Defensive 2nd team last season and it would finally bring another good defender into the fold besides Dwight Howard. Iguodala is one of the few players in the league that can “D” up any team’s best wing player (LeBron/Wade, Pierce, Kobe, etc). The Magic need to build teams that are built to compete deep in the playoffs; removing an aging defensive liability w/ an ever atrophying offensive game (Turkoglu), while adding one of the best defensive players (Iguodala) in the league is an intelligent move for the Magic to make.
Iggy would have a more natural role in Orlando than the one he’s being asked to do by the 76ers. The 76ers are asking for Iggy to take on too large of an offensive role. Him being the #2 offensive option after Dwight is much more reasonable. The amount of defensive attention that Dwight commands when the Magic are on offense should help make it easier for Iggy to score.
It’s almost common knowledge at this point that Monta Ellis is a regular season stat stuffer kind of guy who is a volume shooter and not as efficient a player as you’d be led to believe. He’s not known for his defensive prowess. And at 6’3" he’s gonna have unfavorable match ups against superior defenses, especially in the post season when teams like Miami will put LeBron on Ellis if he gets too hot, as evidenced by LeBron shutting down DRose.
I don’t think Andre Iguodala will be enough to put the Magic over the top though. However teams often need to get that first star in order to entice another star or superstar to join the team. i.e. 2007 Celtics: needed to get Ray Allen first in order to make KG open to the idea of being traded to Boston.
Another + to this trade is that the Magic will retain what is probably their best bargaining chip, Jameer & BBass in some sort of package. Not a bad thing if you want to be in the Chris Paul sweepstakes or any other marquee player looking to change area codes.
how do you expect us to retain bass and give up hedo...
what do you think we would be giving up for Iggy along with Hedo? I’m not saying you wrong im just curious to see what you think would be included IF that deal were able to be done. I was thinking it would take a hedo and Bass, or hedo and orton and a pick. P.S. I’ve been on the trade for Iggy bandwagon since I first heard this rumor way back in the middle of the season. I agree he won’t put us in the finals but we’d improve a lot with him, and especially if we could keep Bass, then we’d have a lot to work with in trying to get CP3 or Deron. Also, if we had the amnesty clause in the new CBA and remove Gilbert that would clear up room to bring a guy like Mayo and really solidy our wing defenders.
I honestly do think a front line of
Dwight
Bass/Ryno
Iggy
Mayo
Jameer
Bench
Reddick
Duhon
Ryno/Bass
Fazquez(if he signed)/back up center like Sheldon Williams
could do VERY well. Maybe even bench Mayo and start JJ.
Either way I think that team can beat Boston and Chi in a 7 gamer.
I’d also like to see us go after Big Baby after hearing rumors Dwight wants to play with him and Boston might not be able to sign him. But thats only if Bass doesn’t come back because those two have very similiar styles.
Q-Rich
tonyy may have two "y"s but Redick has one "d"
/nit-picking :)
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jun 6, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Fazquez? Interesting
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I was reading through a lot of those threads and apparently it seems like the 76ers want to make it a straight-up trade, Iggy for Turk.
The 76ers are trying to make cap space for for 2013 to coincide w/ Elton Brand’s expiring contract.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the 76ers also tried to unload Andres Noicioni’s nearly 7 mil contract on us
I really don’t see why people are infatuated w/ OJ Mayo a 3rd year player who has seen his PPG decrease every season (18.5 , 17.5 , 11.3) His FT% has decreased every season (87.9 , 80.9 , 75. 6) and so has his 3FG%
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3450/oj-mayo
His rookie season was clearly his best season and he hasn’t gotten better since. The Magic can do better than get OJ Mayo. The Magic are going to need a player better than Iguodala in all likelihood in order to compete for the title.
Pass on Mayo
overrated never applied so well, he’s like Sebastian Telfair … all hype but no hustle.
Get out of my House!
i disagree..
O.J is a good defender, and maybe with more minutes can provide more points. I think he ’s a 2 guard in this league with the ability to sometimes be able to bring up the ball. In the playoffs I think he played very solid offense and defense and usually was guarding the best wing player on the other team aside from durant. He would be a good compliment to Iggy and Jameer in that he can drive to the baset, has a decent shot, and good defense…to me thats all we really need out of our 2 if we were to get Iggy and still have Jammer (the scoring point guard) and dwight of course.
Such a combination that would have to work
Jameer is actually pretty ideal to play PG with Dwight; he just is a bit short but makes up for it with his strength. Other than Deron Williams, I think Steph Curry would be the best PG to play with Dwight.
On the wings, other than LeBron and Wade, probably some combination of a defensive player and offensive player. I would prefer Kevin Martin and Luol Deng, but something like Afflalo and Granger/Iguodala would work awesome also.
I would want the PF to be able to be versatile and able to do a lot of things well. Guys like Josh Smith and Lamar Odom. But I like Scola a lot and he would be great as well.
"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.
Fantasy scenario with little to no thought process as to why/how they get here
1.) Tayshaun Prince signs as a free agent.
2.) Andrei Kirilenko Sign and trade with Utah for Bass (maybe turkoglu).
3.) Chris Paul miracle trade.
The lineup would look like this:
C – Howard
PF – Kirilenko
SF – Turkoglu (defaulting to the Bass trade. If the trade is for turk Prince starts at SF)
SG – Prince (with turk trade Redick would start)
PG – Paul
It’s hard to say who would be left if allowing for a Chris Paul miracle trade, so I’ll forgo much discussion of the bench. But this lineup basically improves the Magic across the board with huge gains in defense and rebounding. We also regain the length advantage we enjoyed with Lewis and Turkoglu during the Finals season. Obviously Kirilenko isn’t a great three point shooter but neither is Bass and Kirilenko is better in every other facet of the game.
Prince, I think, fantasy scenario or no is the player Orlando should go after this summer. He’d be a perfect fit.
Chris Paul obviously would make the Magic title contenders again. Though the likelihood of this acquisition is doubtful at best.
by aTasteLikeBurning on Jun 6, 2011 6:47 PM EDT reply actions
Imo
I believe that Deron would be a better fit that Paul even tho Paul is a better point.
Deron is of the style of nelson…just bigger, stronger, and better. I would like Iggy at the 3, bass/ryno at the four, Howard at center, and JJ at 2.
Deron and Iggy can both create their own shot, which would help keep our offense from stagnating when our shots aren’t falling. JJ, when healthy, has an excellent shot and he excels in ball movement which is key in our system. I believe bass and ryno are both high energy players that compliment each other well and allow us to mix and match depending on the opponent. Obliviously Howard at center, but we would need to sign some kind of serviceable backup. No…malik allen is NOT serviceable. Hopefully Clark continues to improve and can back up at the 3 and have either Qrich back up at the 2 or find someone else for that. Gil would be the backup 1 unless we can get rid of him lol.
Tbh I would be very pleased if we did hire someone to help with the offense, because Stan’s system is just to generic. We have two ways to score…force feed howard or make 3s and most times it requires a combination of those two. Short of P&Rs, some generic howard baseline screens and howard double teams, we really have no ball movement to free up shooters. We need way more penetration with the intent to make the defense move and we need more cutters to the basket. When Barnes was here I thought his shot was atrocious looking, but he was always great at making cuts to the basket. This past year we did not have a single person that made those cuts save for Jrich on a rare occasion.
In conclusion, realistically the best we can hope for is to get rid of some of the salary we have and hope the FO actually signs people that will work with the system. O and that Howard doesn’t leave, lol.
Igudala n bring back Lee n maybe kurt thomas as our back up big....thats all we need and of course fire van gundy!
Howard Bench: Kthomas
Bass Clark
Iguadala Turk
Lee Redick
Nelson Arenas……………..= improved wing defense/speed/and bench!
No way we could possibly have a team with Howard, Turk, Arenas and Iggy as currently structured. I like Courtney Lee but he’s not solving the Magic’s problems.
Get out of my House!
"Of course" means i have no idea what i'm talking about
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 7, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
"of course" means that we have become a joke under van gundy..
“of course” means that every 20+ points per game player that we have picked up like Lewis/Carter/J-rich..have all averaged 15pts or LESS when joining the Magic…“of course” means that since we picked up van gundy he has ruined the team from the moment he made his first decision in putting lewis at the 4 making him into a stiff one dementional undersized 4 . Instead of using his talents in the post to slow game down from time to time..“of course” means building a team of One dementional shooters to satisfy a non playoff system of STATISICAL shooters…“of course” means that van gundy has had a variety of talent on his teams but still manages to keep scrambling lineups instead of keeping one together and building some chemistry…“of course” means because van gundy doesnt have faith in certain players like Bass and clark so he doesnt play them as often as he should like say early on in the season so they can adjust to the game and get comfortable???..".of course means Van gundy is a joke of a coach thats why the magic will never get the respect they deserve…..and finally “of course” means the heat knew what they were doing getting rid of this bum!..“of course”
That you can operate a computer inspires me.
by Evan Dunlap on Jun 9, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
sorry if im not part of the "STATISTICAL" crew that this franchise runs by..
I assess talent and not only go by what this stat says or that stat says..Thats what so sad with this Franchise..Ive been a fan since Day one!…Its mindboggling that just because you can write well that you think you know about the game of basketball…Let me guess you are a Ryan Anderson junkie???..smh
Not a terrible way, but definately not the way to win a championship or keep a good team intact as well.
Stats are a good resource to have on your side no doubt about it but you cant write your game plan on it. Sure use it as a tool but instincts and addressing your talent and potential at hand is the key to success…Not stats….van gundy has no true basketball IQ to be a Head coach hes been riding the coat tails of Howard’s incline of success while the team Van gundys part is rapidly declining.
Yeah, and look at all the other years between SVG leaving and purchasing Lebron! Look at all those championships and winning seasons!
…oh.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 9, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not a very good troll.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 9, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
....I don't even
Get out of here.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 9, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Can i pose a question.
why is it everytime somebody says something u guys don’t like they’re a troll?
Really?
You read through all his stuff (“Didnt think none of you pencil pushers could hang with big boy talk…hahaha…not even if you quadruple team me chumps…”) and took him seriously?
Which is to say nothing about the fact that he’s straight-up wrong. SVG is demonstrably one of the biggest reasons the Magic even managed to crawl to 54 wins with a roster nearly bereft of talent and effort. If you say differently, you’re wrong. If you say differently a bunch of times, provide no reasoning or backing, pull the tired “I’ve been a fan since Day One” card that no true fan would feel the need to ever pull, and are generally ill-tempered, you’re a troll.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 9, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy is stating his opinion
That doesn’t mean he’s a troll. There are some good points he makes. however there are some things i don’t agree with but i’m not attacking him about it.
It's him making questionable points that irks me, I don't mind that he can rant-
but calling Ariza and Lee “great talents” is something that WILL make me laugh at you.
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
Yeah i can agree on that
But Lee and Ariza do have good talent. but they were never fully used here. as i said before we would have never seen how well Lee may have fully adapted with us. and he was good his rookie seaon playing as a starter in the playoff’s.
Ehh, hindsight is 2020- we needed someone who can create their own shot and VC was the only one that made sense
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
We didn't need someone who could create there own shot
if we needed a guy like that so badly, how did we make it to the finals in 09? teamwork basketball. moving the ball, hitting threes. we had a slasher in Lee. Three point monster in Pietrus. great back-up in Gortart, clutch shooter in lewis(when he was enhanced) howard (nothing needs to be said about that) good bench and good team. we were more balanced back then. and we did that without a guy who could create his own shot. now i might ask. do we really need a guy who can create his own shot that badly?
That's what we've been looking for, haven't we?
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
Ummmm
This Trevor Ariza?
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/03/10/is-trevor-ariza-the-worst-shooter-ever/
Never been afraid to say what's on my mind at any given time of day. Renegade.
Evan: "David Polega. Banned."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Yes?
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
Exactly. He sucks.
Never been afraid to say what's on my mind at any given time of day. Renegade.
Evan: "David Polega. Banned."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Ariza and lee are great talents? Im dreaming
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 9, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee may have been average
but he had something we needed. and had the potential to get better. we would have never fully seen that potential if Otis never traded him. He performed pretty well for a starter (in the playoff’s i might add) while as a rookie.
Umm, Ok- I guess i'll take them anyday over guys like Kobe, Wade, Roy, Allen, etc.
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 9, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
#oddthread.org
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 9, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Im sorry, i think i misunderstood this:
We trade away great talents like ariza and Lee for what??..Because they cant shoot 3s and van gundy does not know how to insert them otherwise!….its very easy to coach a team that just kicks it to dwight then shoots threes over and over again..and its m
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 9, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you misunderstood this
who said anything about Those players we never had any of those players ???…wow…as for roy and allen ..roy for one is not healthy and it would be dumb to go after him and allen is aged..i would take lee n ariza upside ……
as a response to this
Umm, Ok- I guess i’ll take them anyday over guys like Kobe, Wade, Roy, Allen, etc.
"GREAT PLAYERS"
now that doesnt mean that they are superstars..It means they are great talents to have on your team especially being young/athletic/and full of potential!
They have 0 potential, that's why Lee doesn't start for his team.
and Ariza has a .397 shooting percentage. Stop making stuff up.
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 9, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
as for Ariza
he is a defender you know not all players on the court have to be a shooter??!!…that is our main problem lack of movement and trying to make shooters into hustle/defenders!
Ohhhh! Like Matt Barnes!
That worked out amazingly against Bost…oh, wait. That’s right.
Never been afraid to say what's on my mind at any given time of day. Renegade.
Evan: "David Polega. Banned."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Are you seriously new to commenting?
Umm, Ok- I guess i’ll take them anyday over guys like Kobe, Wade, Roy, Allen, etc.
In case you don’t realize this, it’s called sarcasm. Learn it
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 9, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, im done
Cock my 40 glock and my partna just bought a replica
Now Asians sayin they don’t keep no cash in they register
We run from red & blue lights to get that green
But whoever got that white is winnin like Charlie Sheen
by 4QB on Jun 9, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You're also not part of the "knows what they're talking about" crew.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jun 9, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course being 6'10" is undersized at the 4
since when?
out of the 68 forwards who started atleast 41 games this past season the average height is 6’9" with Lewis falling in the top 23 and only 13 players are taller than him, and only 4 are 2 inches or more taller than him. Those four are Bargnani, Pau Gasol (a F/C), Darko Milicic (F/C), and Dirk Nowitzki. So I don’t get why someone would be upset about Lewis playing the 4, especially due to his height.
Weight is too relative, some players play too heavy and some play too light. What you don’t want is player playing too heavy that it reduces his ability to perform.
Get out of my House!
obviously this playoffs showed you what a skinny 6''10 guy can do
Lewis at the 4 is as bad as Ryno at the 4..they are too weak to defend true power forwards and on the offensive end you limit their talents to just an outside shooter(mainly 3pt)…Going up against the likes of Kg, Bosh,D west or any true power forward Lewis or Ryno automatically become hesitant on Offense due to size and length. While Lewis at the 3 would provide you another inside and outside scorer with great post game against much smaller 3s..For example last years playoffs against boston Lewis was dominating pierce in the post the few times they were matched up..instead of letting pierce get whatever shot he wanted against our smaller 3s, why not make pierce work on defensive end guarding lewis with bass on garnett?…Thats rite we waited till the end of our season to use bass because van gundy had no faith in him!……….As for the weight issues that goes on the Training staff of the magic to either make a player more powerful or train a player to have good foot work “of course” that would mean the player would have to be in natural position….
Rashard was pretty good
last year against the Hawks. Against KG his shot just wasn’t falling but KG wasn’t scoring either so that’s a wash. The only thing Anderson and lewis stuggled with on defense was that lateral movement of keeping in front of Josh Smith or Horford. That has nothing to do with how skinny they are. And besides I do’t think anyone thinks Ryno is skinny.
Get out of my House!
Lewis was going up against a long armed top rate defender in Kg that automatically takes his aggressive attacking nature..When lewis should of been playing the 3 and having boston play to us not other way around...
As for Smith and horford they were to physical for either lewis or anderson…we did not use the Million dollar man lewis talents his whole tenure with the magic. We simply overpaid lewis to play out of postion and out of his comfort zone to fullfill “van gundys comfort zone”…Van gundy made lewis game and talent dissppear as well as carter etc…we Need Larry brown he will know what to do.
You think it would be easier for them to keep up laterally with a 3 as opposed to a 4?
If anything 3s are quicker, Ryan should never play the 3 unless we are playing a team like the L*kers. And KG is one of the best defenders in the game, it’s not unreasonable to think he can shutdown a top notch PF.
I think what we really need to factor in here is by the time the Magic had gone to Finals and were trying to get back, Lewis was not the same player, he was little more off in his shot, and less athletic, but he still held his own against some of the more athletic PF (i.e. Josh Smith, that year we swept the Hawks). Throw in how we lost to what would’ve been the NBA Champs had Perkins not gotten injured for game 7 of the Finals, and it was just a case of Rashard not making shots, not that he’s too soft or too small, he kept KG from being a huge factor on the offensive end, he just wasn’t a good factor on the Magic’s offensive end. Which was weird because the 2 series before he was playing great offensively. KG is just really that good of a defender.
Get out of my House!
We did overpay him
I’ll give you that … but not the out of position part. I wouldn’t want Lewis playing the 3 he becomes a huge defensive liablity there, due to his athletic decline.
Get out of my House!
Sixers are about to be sold
What (if anything) does that mean in regards to them trading Iggy?
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