Assessing the Orlando Magic's Failure, Part II: Midseason Acquisitions Can't Spark Offense
by Evan Dunlap on May 13, 2011 8:00 AM EDT
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Otis Smith, the Orlando Magic's President of Basketball Operations, pushed all his trade chips to the center of the table in December when he acquired Gilbert Arenas, Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Clark in two separate deals designed to reinvigorate his flagging team--which had lost five of its last six--and bolster its offense. Superficially, the trades worked: the team's offense improved slightly, and they had the ancillary benefit of helping center Dwight Howard reach new heights at that end of the floor. But overall, the newcomers disappointed, which ranks among the reasons the team found itself out of the playoffs in the first round for the first time since Stan Van Gundy took over head-coaching duties.
"I thought we needed scoring, we needed a bit more punch," Smith said at the news conference announcing the acquisitions. "[L]ooking at our team, we were pretty much through 25 games and we were missing a little something and I thought change was needed." Smith brought about that change by swapping Rashard Lewis, the floor-stretching power forward whose productivity had dipped in each of his three-plus seasons with Orlando, for Arenas, a shoot-first combo guard. He got younger at shooting guard by effectively exchanging Vince Carter for Jason Richardson, with Richardson's athleticism and reliable outside shot trumping Carter's ability to make plays for others. Turkoglu's passing, versatility, and previous success under Van Gundy--he won the league's Most Improved Player award in 2008, with Van Gundy as his coach--made him a good fit for a team in need of another facilitator. Clark never really carved out a spot in the rotation and his athleticism is best used defensively.
The trades, as we can see with the benefit of hindsight, backfired, though it's not too terribly difficult to understand what Smith might have been thinking with the shakeup. On the day of the trades, for instance, the Magic's offensive rating stood at 106.3; when the season ended, the newcomers had helped boost that figure to 107.7. The upshot is the team scored more efficiently, but on the other hand, it didn't improve its overall standing in the league. The 106.3 figure was good for 14th in the league at the time.
107.7? Also 14th in the league.
In short, the trades were meant to make the Magic a more potent offensive club, and they didn't actually do that. The team's effective field-goal percentage at the time of the trades was 52.3. The made-over club posted an effective field-goal percentage of 52.2. Indeed, Smith's moves ultimately proved lateral at best on the court, while compromising the team's long-term financial future.
It's unfair to pin responsibility for the team's offensive shortcomings on any one player, but I do think Richardson has to go under the microscope a bit here. He averaged 19.3 points in just 31.8 minutes per game with the Phoenix Suns prior to the deals, shooting 41.9 percent from beyond the arc and 47.7 percent overall. Though he played more minutes with Orlando--34.9, to be precise--his productivity declined sharply, perhaps as a natural consequence of no longer having a point guard of Steve Nash's caliber feeding him the ball. Richardson shot a good, but not great, 38.4 percent on threes and, worrisomely, just 43.3 percent from the field. Carter, thanks to his foul-drawing ability and improved accuracy on twos, actually scored more efficiently for Orlando than Richardson did this season.
Arenas is another scapegoat of sorts, though I'm not sure what anyone might have expected a man coming off three knee surgeries in the last three years to accomplish in the smallest role he's ever held at the professional level. He proved an unmitigated disaster offensively, shooting more often, per minute, than everyone on the team, but converting just 34.4 percent of his shots. He had the right idea when it came to pushing the pace in transition, but still made curious decisions in the halfcourt, resulting in his unacceptably high turnover rate of 19.3. And the poor decision-making also manifested itself in his shot selection. Arenas showed flashes of usefulness in the Magic's playoff loss to the Atlanta Hawks by attacking the basket for scores or passes to teammates, but his greatly diminished speed and leaping ability raises questions about his long-term prospects. And the Magic owe him fore than $62 million over the next three seasons.
Turkoglu simply isn't the same player he was during his first Magic stint with Van Gundy. He shot less often than in prior years, seeming more comfortable as a passer or loiterer on the perimeter. Love his team-best 40.4 percent mark from long range, but hate his reluctance to actually shoot the damn ball, and his curiously poor (66.7 percent) foul shooting. Add to all that his poor showing in the playoffs--he had the fourth-worst True Shooting mark of any player to average at least 11 shot attempts in the postseason in the last 10 years--and one wonders just how much he can offer Orlando going forward.
Van Gundy lamented the state of his roster, or so it would appear, when the Hawks took a 3-1 lead on the Magic. "We don't have the Jamal Crawford or a Joe Johnson," he said, "guys who can break you down off the dribble." This much is true. Van Gundy's offense is one that relies less on one-on-one play than any other in the league, instead calling for precise ball movement to create high-percentage shots at the rim or from three-point range. The Magic don't take many in-between shots, which in theory ought to help their efficiency. In practice, though, the offense doesn't quite accomplish that, because all the passing necessary makes it prone to turnovers. Plus, Howard's frequent post-ups have the nasty side-effect of causing stagnation as his teammates stand around, watching him put the moves on his man.
One can see why a shot-creating wing of the Johnson or Crawford vintage could help this Magic squad, just as one wonders if Carter represented the Magic's last, best hope at filling that role.
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The offensive decline is still a mystery to me
though I’ve not looked at it deeply enough. Worst offense of the SVG era? Mind boggling. Big drop off in eFG%, worst TOV offense by a full percentage point, and ineffective at getting to the line and making our foul shots. And this coming off our best offensive season. Yikes.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
Carter would not have helped this team
I agree Richardson struggled here, but I have stated reasons why he struggled. On the bright side the defense did get better.
Anyways, it is easy to say now the trade was bad move but you gotta wonder if Orlando shoots better than 20% from 3 in the Atlanta series would really be having this discussion or talking about how Orlando just beat the Chicago Bulls and are now about to play the Heat? Easy to say this guy didn’t do this or that, but they didn’t hit wide open shots. Time to go to work in the offseason.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
by Mateo9399 on May 13, 2011 8:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Right, there weren't warning signs prior to the playoffs.
And Richardson was so worried about cutting his foot at some point in the series that it allowed him to only have one good game and get suspended for another. He just knew something bad was going to happen so he figured he might as well mail it in before the series started.
It’s easy to say “Carter would not have helped this team” without having any real logic supporting that, simply because it’s been what you’ve been saying for 6 months now, hoping to be right.
Bottom line is, we went from Game 6 in the ECF against a healthy Boston team to Game 6 in the 1st round against an ATL team we crushed last year. Accept it.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on May 13, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I bought into Carter before got here.
Didn’t like him against Boston. Still think we should have traded him. Now for Turk? Obviously now no. But regardless, we still were not going to beat the Heat. So we get to the ECF and lose again? Maybe losing in the first round could benefit the team. Again it is going to be hard, but there are trades that can be made out there.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
We shall see once the CBA is completed.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Yeah, go back through the game log and find out how accurate that is.
He was inconsistent, which is more than I can say for J-Rich or Hedo in the first round against ATL.
He averaged 18 pts/gm in the first three games against Boston while many other players on the team failed to show up. He did miss two clutch free throws (Dwight did also, but we’re not killing him) in Game 2 which certainly sucked.. He didn’t play well in the two wins we had against Boston. He was the only one to show up besides Dwight in Game 6.
Let’s go to the previous rounds, shall we? Starting with ATL: He had 3 games of over 20 points on a combined 48% FG%, with one game of 7 points on 2-5 shooting in 22 minutes. We blew the Hawks out each game, so I’ll say we had an overall successful showing there. Moving on to Charlotte: Two bad games of 12 and 10 on a combined 26% shooting and two good games of 19 and 21 on a combined 46% shooting. Again, we won all four close games, despite Dwight playing so little. I consider that a success too.
Vince, even with that inconsistency, had a better PER than J-Rich or Hedo. He also played better defense than either (did Joe Johnson tear apart Vince? I don’t think so). So again, ask yourself, would Vince have helped more than Hedo or J-Rich???
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on May 16, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
???
Can you explain the “On the bright side the defense did get better.” comment?
That boggles my mind more than the problems on offense.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 13, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Simple explanation.
Dwight elevated his game after the trades. I remember thinking he was looking a bit off in the first month or two. After the trades, he just activated beast mode.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Well then no credit goes to the trades.
All credit to Dwight. All hail Dwight.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 14, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Right on the mark with the analyses.
But one may note that a statement of “deals [were] designed to reinvigorate his flagging team—which had lost five of its last six—and bolster its offense” needs further qualification that the results prior to trades were on par with previous two years, and losing 5 out of 6 were at the tail end of a road trip hampered by wide-spread illness of the team requiring extended minutes for the healthy players hence draining the overall energy of the team. To act upon such anomaly – as Smith did – could not be supported by common sense let alone quantitative/qualitative data which all indicate that such moves – set aside financial implications – would render nothing more than lateral results, at best.
Just a thought.
I don’t think J Rich was brought here to replace Carter. I think he was brought here to replace Lewis in terms of what he was to the offense. Turkoglu and Arenas were brought in to replace Carter(and knowing Otis Arenas to replace Jameer). Yes they play the same position, but I think Richardson was brought in to replace Lewis’s offensive role. Turk and Arenas were brought in to replace the playmaking skills. Bass and Anderson were to replace the zero offense we were getting from the 3 position. You have to look it at as not position fo position swap, but more like role for role swap. In which case Turk was not better than VC. Maybe you slid VC to the 3(he is 6’7"[I think] and he was in much better shape this season).
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
by Mateo9399 on May 13, 2011 8:51 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
role for role swap makes a lot of sense
I don’t think the trades were done so people would get replaced. Offence was the main goal, I just feel Otis went about it in the wrong way.
For me the 2 biggest mistakes of the trade where trading away Gortat and Pietrus and not getting the same thing back. We lost our back up centre and a good defender in MP and we didn’t have anything tangible to show for it other than a work in progress Earl Clark, who could potentially develop into a very good defender.
True.
However, from what I have seen not many GM’s were sold on Gortat. Makes them look like idiots now. Seriously. A team like Philly really could have used the dumping of Iggy’s contract while getting the chance to clear 13 million off their books. Oh well. Even OKC. I know they got Perkins, but don’t tell me he is better than Gortat. I always thought a Gortat for Jeff Green would benefit both teams. Magic need a SF, OKC needed a center. But OKC fans didn’t think Gortat would be that good. They also overvalued Green a little. But he would have been a nice fit here. Then Orlando would have been able to still dump Carter in the offseason, and have that little thing called cap space potentially. Oh well.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
The trades were a complete disaster
The team is now stuck with a subpar roster around Dwight. Even worse is the brutal contracts for that subpar roster. Otis should pay for this fiasco with his job.
by aakks on May 13, 2011 8:59 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Amen
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by gridiron_mike on May 13, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Teams know how to beat our offense, that's all.
4-1 is not working anymore. Change it.
I said it was gonna doom us in the playoffs, and it did.
It is not that.
They just went to the Finals 2 years ago. But this team does not have 2009 Turk, 2009 Lewis, Courtney Lee and Pietrus on the wings, 2009 Jameer Nelson. Those players with this Dwight Howard could win a title. Can Anderson turn into Lewis? I do not know, he is not the same player. He is a bit bulkier. A better rebounder. Lewis is a much better defender. But Lewis was not known before he got here, so there is hope that SVG can get Anderson into a much better defender. You do not have to scrap the offense, you have to get players who fit better. If you swap Anderson instead of Bass starting, that would make this team better. But we will see. You got to the point where you were 3 wins away from a title.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Defenses hoping wide-open players missing shots is how to beat our offense.
Or hoping for more brainless TO’s. Don’t try to act like Nostradamus without bringing any real facts to the table.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on May 13, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
May be he isn't acting like Nostradamus...........
May be is acting like Plato and philosphising which you don’t really need to have any real facts in order to do, just need a lot speculation and circumstance.
Hey, no need to throw Plato under the bus. He was a bright dude.
"Basketball is a team game. But that doesn't mean all five players should have the same amount of shots." - Dean Smith
Fire Stan!
REP96st knows how to fix things, hire him!
SMH.
Never been afraid to say what's on my mind at any given time of day. Renegade.
Evan: "David Polega. Banned."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
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I would hope the Magic don’t try to resign J Rich, but instead get a wing man with more of a defensive presence even if not a great one-on-one guy.
The Magic are an old team. Why not trade for younger, more athletic players? It is painful watching the team operate without that spark who can make hustle plays or get defensive stops to keep the other players engaged.
I like Arenas’s loose style of play (when he is not turning the ball over) and I hope he can make significant mental & physical improvements over the summer. To me, Jameer must be on the move because I just don’t understand paying a back-up pg $17 mil a year. Also, Arenas just doesn’t have the ability to play the 2 against the likes of D-Wade, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen in the East, and even a declining Kobe in the West. Both Jameer and Arenas already have trouble keeping up with the new age PGs who can dominate the game with explosiveness to the rim. I don’t think we can improve with both of these guys on the roster.
Hedo has to get himself more involved. But it must be hard when you’re on a team full of shooters. I like the Magic’s balanced attack, but I think now is the time to pinpoint exactly who our options are after Dwight and let those guys go to work. We need more role players who can impact the game in other ways than scoring so that Dwight, Arenas, & Hedo can do the heavy lifting on the offensive end.
I think Otis has to pull all the rabbits he can out of his GM hat this summer to make the Magic a serious contender and keep Dwight in Orlando.
by slc1083 on May 13, 2011 10:27 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Nobody will take our old crappy players
Any GM with 3 brain cells would never take on the contracts of Hedo or Arenas unless Dwight Howard was attached to them.
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by gridiron_mike on May 13, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree there are moves to be made – there are possibilities that while not fantasy scenarios can be solid moves that keep us at a high level and take steps toward the future – something like:
Nelson / Bass / JJ for Verajao / B Davis
Magic take on more salary at the PG but increase considerably in size and skill both offensively and defensively at the position. Davis (ETO) contract expires same as Jameers and while I dont like losing JJ, we would secure a perfect PF/C sidekick to Dwight. The frontcourt rotation would be solidified for 3 years – giving it a serious defense boost plus energy.
Cavs would love to shed the (at minimum) $13M over 2 years in Davis/Nelson swap – and while they love Verajao his contract while not an albatross is disproportionate for a team rebuilding so if they can get young pieces such as JJ/Bass (and possible throw ins like Orton/re signed Clark/rights to Fran/ future 1st) they very well could do this trade
Man the Cavs though??
I think we should trade Jameer to Minnesota, at least Minnesota is not a terrible place to go to. The T’Wolves may be a small market team, but minnesota is not a small market city. And at least jameer would play with Kevin Love. There is nothing to be excited about in Cleveland.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Rubio?
could he be had for Nelson….Ridnour is a good back up and their projected starter Flynn has been a flop so maybe. But then again they’re trying to implement the triangle there so adding a small pg probably isn’t high on their list of wants and they already have a pretty good frontcourt rotation so its very unlikely
Flynn was terrible this year.
But he actually had a decent rookie season. You may have noticed that Kurt Rambis was their coach….but I was thinking Flynn and Beasley, maybe the rights for Rubio(especially if they get the number 1 pick why in the world would they need Rubio). Derek Fisher is small. The trianlge requires a PG who can shoot. But that team as assembled should not be running the triangle. Rambis is a terrible coach.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
You must be smoking crack
You want Verajao and Brandon Davis? Yeah, because Cleveland Cavalier players are so good. Look how many championships they helped Lebron win! And Davis has bounced around forever. He is simply not that good. I would rather keep Nelson and Bass than get those two jokers.
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by gridiron_mike on May 13, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Baron Davis is actually a better player Brandon Davis
But jokes aside, Baron Davis is good when he is motivated. Did you see the way he played with Blake Griffin? He would be like that with Dwight. The problem is you would have Davis and Areanas. Davis and Arenas?? Yikes…..
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Baron Davis is who I meant
Thanks for the correction, I was indeed referring to Baron Davis, the Guard formerly of the Clippers that lacks self motivation and is often the butt of Bill Simmons jokes.
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by gridiron_mike on May 13, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Dwight Howard is the butt of Simmons jokes.
He is still bitter that they, the Celtics, lost to Orlando two years ago. Then outplayed his hated rivals and did not win.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Not that I’m saying BDavis is amazing or anything but he certainly is an upgrade over Nelson. Really the only thing that has held BDavis from reaching star level has been his drive – specifically conditioning. But one has to wonder if that didn’t have to do with being on lousy teams and lousy situations. His ability to get his bigs good looks and that he is much more of a classic pg than Nelson I like. A big difference though is that he can post up on top of being able to hit midrange-3pt shots at a good % and can still be a decent defender with size.
As for Verajao, I hate him as a Cav but would love him as a Magic. The guy’s motor is something we haven’t had here since the heart and hustle days. He’ll have Dwight’s back and will draw a lot of foul pressure and confrontational energy away from Dwight. Him and Dwight on the floor would greatly diminish the perimeter defensive weakness of Hedo as he is one of the best defensive centers as far as mobility out to the perimeter and back.
When teams are in bad situations that is when opportunities arise to steal a quality player.
^This
Playing with Dwight, like how excited he was with Griffin, could revive his career. But to have his contract ON TOP of Arenas. Yeesh.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
that is a lot of money for the pg rotation but it expires same as Nelson.
if he doesn’t p/u his option then Magic save a huge chunk of $ at the right time
and if does exercise his option then his expiring contract is a good size to be able to trade for a good player – better than what we could get in exchange for Nelson’s expiring in my opinion.
Plus this trade allows us to keep Anderson and fill/upgrade two-three positions. His offense also alleviates the need to sign Richardson and be able to focus the MLE on defensive minded wings.
Exactly.
I would not do the trade. Just saying that baron Davis is better than both nelson and Arenas.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
money aside – it does make the Magic better (at least on paper) – so if the Magic are willing to spend – it has no effect cap wise as we are over either way and the contract expires at the right time anyhow.
If his contract was a year longer ok I could see it as a bad move, but its not so you have to look at it solely as a basketball move…and if so -
this:
B Davis / Arenas / Duhon
__ / Arenas / Q
Hedo / Q
Verajao / Anderson
Howard / Verajao
+MLE (for a def wing and a 4th big)
is way better than this:
Nelson / Arenas / Duhon
_ / JJ / Arenas
Hedo / Q
Bass / Anderson
Howard / _
+MLE
I would love to see B Davies/Arenas combo just to have a good reason
to shoot myself. And would be qfter some appointements with Artest’s psy in order to accept Verajao in a Magic jersey.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
by 44792212 on May 13, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd take Nelson over Davis without even thinking about it.
I also bet that Davis in this Magic team could probably be as bad or even worse as Gil this year. I would, on the other hand, gladly take Baron over Duhon any day of the week (not that this will ever happen).
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Can I have Davis from early 2000's? Simply b/c if he was on our team, he couldn't kill us in the playoffs.
If not, I’ll keep Jameer. Thanks.
Never been afraid to say what's on my mind at any given time of day. Renegade.
Evan: "David Polega. Banned."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
"Not that I’m saying BDavis is amazing or anything but he certainly is an upgrade over Nelson"
No.
by Evan Dunlap on May 13, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yea
id rather have Nelson than B Davis, especially since we have Arenas who is a similar player to Davis (shoot bad fg% but can dish out dimes)
Hedo is the player who should get the most heat for our first round exit, not Arenas
by supermantotherescue on May 14, 2011 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions
stats don't really back your NO statement up entirely
BD PER : 17.5 (+ 2.03)
JN PER : 15.47
…Nelson is more efficient as a scorer primarily because he is a better 3pt shooter – he takes only 1 less fg attempt than Davis in essentially the same mpg
but he’s a much worse distributor (of note to the interior – even with Dwight as his target).
PASSING -
BD A/TO Rate: 2.80 (.45)
JN A/TO Rate: 2.35
BD Assist Rate: 44.93 ( 3.69)
JN Assist Rate: 41.24
BD Avg/pg Assist leading to scores <10 to rim: 4.5 (+ 2.0)
JN Avg/pg Assist leading to scores <10 to rim: 2.5
BD Assist Ratio: 30.4 (+ 1.2)
JN Assist Ratio: 29.2
BD TO Ratio: 11.34 (+ 1.10)
JN TO Ratio: 12.44
BD Assist % : 38.8 (+ 6.4)
JN Assist %: 32.4
SCORING –
BD PPG / Attempts pg: 13.1 / 11.9
JN PPG / Attempts pg: 13.1 / 11.0 ( + 0.8+)
BD USG Rate: 27.0
JN USG Rate: 21.9 (+ 5.1)
BD TS%: 49.20
JN TS%: 54.8 (5.6)
BD FT Rate: .20 (.01)
JN FT Rate: .19
BD 3PT%/Attempts pg: .34 / 4.1
JN 3PT%/Attempts pg: .40 / 3.9 (+ .6)
regardless of all these stats, the quote you pulled out of context Evan, had less to do with switching out Nelson for Davis but rather adding Verajao whom would be a huge upgrade to the PF/C rotation giving DH protection and take a nice chunk of the defensive load off of Howard not to mention the hustle off rebounds and xtra possesion plus defense intensity he would add.
I agree sic1083, I am a huge fan of Jameer Nelson but it is clear that while Dwight’s game dictates the type of offense that SVG (4+1) opts for, it is Nelson’s style and skill set that truly limits SVG options. Mateo 9399’s comments about Gortat in an indirect way point to the difference a true point guard can make – is it Gortat’s increased role or is it Nash?
Nelson can certainly create his own shot but his inability to make the right pass at the right time in the right spot when the defensive pressure intensifies or throws knuckleballs at him is often a problem that really magnifies in post season play. That in combination with the 4+1 predictability is a huge reason for why the offense hit a brick wall this season.
Now moving Nelson, well that is putting an awful lot in the hands of Arenas – who I agree when given freedom is better- but a very very high risk indeed. But on the other hand Nelson, Bass, Anderson and JJ may be the only assets that can realistically net us a high caliber player. If you move Bass or Anderson you have to get a big in return so that really limits any wing upgrade as you would create a huge hole at PF and possibly back up C if you don’t get that big in return.
So the question is what can Nelson (and JJ combined) get you that compensates for the potentially huge downgrade from the starting point guard position.
The problem was not who we traded.
It was what we traded it for. Otis turned most of our valuable assets (and our first round pick) into scraps that another team did not want. Instead of, y’know, riding out this year, letting a team that was the best in basketball for a 3 month stretch (February to May), seeing what happened with the CBA, and then trying for a major star…. Splendid work.
Also, let’s not forget the fact that these moves were made to cover up other big gaffes that he made, such as giving Rashard the 2nd worst contract in the league and signing Duhon to a 4 year deal to be our back-up PG. Well, we killed two birds with one stone by acquiring the worst contract in the league owed to a guy who is marginally better than Duhon. Huzzah!
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on May 13, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I agree with you on this.
Although the Rashard contract was not an issue when we were in the Finals. He was injured. Really do not understand why they just did not shut him down this season.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Yeah, I would rather have Rashard for two more years than Arenas for three.
But hey, Otis was in “win now” mode… but he failed at that too.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
And as much as I like Rashard as a player and a pro...
His contract was always an issue. He was always going to be overpaid, it’s just that his contract wasn’t a hindrance then because it was really the only bad contract we had.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
*sigh* indeed.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
…as one wonders if Carter represented the Magic’s last, best hope at filling that role.
We are doomed.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Couldn't have said it better (than either of you).
That was our shot. Vince was it.
We aren’t one guy away from a Championship anymore.
Our only hope is that Howard stays long enough for us to rebuild around him once the money is freed up.
We went from a all-around team to a pretty predictable team
i thought this team was better before the trade and we all know Otis rushed things without thinking. this team was an all-elite team. even with a no-more-enhanced up lewis and quitting Vince. we should okay next year with what we get. but i feel we need to trade jameer and bass.
pardon my ignorance
but instead of working the ball into the post for Dwight and spacing for high percentage 3’s when double’s come, why doesn’t SVG add off ball movement (screens, flares, back door cuts etc) and screens once (and perhaps even as) the pass is sent to him?
That could cause defensive confusion, wear the other team down over time and create open looks even if help doesn’t come to Dwight if the timing is right. Instead it often looks like the off ball defenders get a breather while Dwight pounds whichever poor soul is guarding him.
Or are we already doing stuff like that? This is all just eye test stuff.
I often wonder the ballmovement part of this but at times the team seems to do it
great and I know that it’s the way Stan wants them to play and then other times seems like no one is moving aroung. I just think that our roster isn’t athletic enough to keep the ball movement and transitoin game up in a regular rate. Other times it also seems that they fold once the other team starts to put a real tough pressure in the perimetter. But again, it’s the Magic, so, expecting consistency from them is like expecting one day they’ll lead the league in fewer TOs committed.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
This.
"Basketball is a team game. But that doesn't mean all five players should have the same amount of shots." - Dean Smith
I really wish they watched the Dallas series.
Of course Dallas has no inside game and that makes them a very different team, but the way the guards moved the ball and Barea used drives and kicks or was beating his man off the dribble was a thing of beauty. Dallas isn’t that athletic either and some could say that the Lakers D just didn’t show up in the series but it was a great display of how ball movement and penetration/kick can destroy a team defense. The other difference of course is that Dallas has the “guy” in Dirk who can shoot over anyone in the universe but still, games 3 and especialy 4 they didn’t even need to go to him, that as how good they played.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Actually
They did do something like that in game 5 when J.J and Gil were running the floor. everybody was getting involved and we looked like a dominant team. but for some odd reason they completely forget what they did and did the same thing they’ve been doing all series. shooting 3’s,missing them, give it to howard, and play catch-up. but yeah they need to take a note from Dallas.
Do people here think that J-Rich's "decline" had something to do with the fact
that someon actually asked him to play defense ? I don’t know if there are number who could help answer the question.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
No
He didn’t play with an elite passing PG. Also his usage was not as high here as other places. He lost about 5 shots on his career average.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Who cares?
The past is the past let’s talking about the future;
1- Dwight Howard?
2- Otis and SVG….. are they will be fired?
3- Free agents signing… Who is available and how the Magic can afford?
4- Trades….. Can we trade at least one of these two (Gil and/or Hedo)?
5- Can we fired Mike Bianchi?…… and so and so and so
so many things that we have to worry about and you guys talking about the past
C’mon give me a break.
wow, chill out man, we kinda care to know E.D.'s opinion on the season.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Several months of time to fill with content.
Potentially longer than normal with the lockout looming. Oh, and why this team with title aspirations entering the year lost in the first round is a worthy story.
Trades and free agent speculation is mostly fruitless until the CBA is cleared up.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
1. Getting to it. A lot to sort through.
2. Vander Weide said Smith and Stan are safe. So no, we’re not going there.
3. The playoffs aren’t even over and we don’t know what the new CBA will allow, so free agency is on hold.
4. Same CBA comment applies here, but even if it didn’t, the answer to that question is “no.”
5. I’m not having that discussion.
Before we address the future, we must also make sense of the past. Perhaps you’ve already uncovered all the answers, so you’re ready to move on. I haven’t, and am not.
We’ll discuss the future at the appropriate time.
CEOs' public announcements are directly related to the organizations' interests.
Since Bob Vander Weide cannot claim that he was not in the loop on the decision making process relevant to trades, he cannot make Otis Smith the scapegoat, and he does not need to at least not in the current condition. But if the condition changes and pressure builds up, he may adopt a different approach.
Otis Smith’s interview whereby he stated that he would do the same trades again if he had the chance, was plain stupid. I can imagine that he has been told afterwards to lay low and keep quiet. Then Vander Weide had the lengthy interview with Orlando Sentinel which did not go down well. The situation is still fluid and who knows what the future holds for Smith? The fact remains that after the trades he was the front face of the organization, and if there is a blow up in the business community, he would be the natural target of criticism. In the long run, the organization’s interests dictate the future course of action.
You should write a fanpost. Don't hijack someone else's thread.
"Basketball is a team game. But that doesn't mean all five players should have the same amount of shots." - Dean Smith
I didnt understand half of the things you said.
Never been afraid to say what's on my mind at any given time of day. Renegade.
Evan: "David Polega. Banned."
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by JeffShann3 on May 13, 2011 10:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Study of the past is always recommended in business - or other fields for that matter - for two reasons:
1 – To learn about the mistakes so that they would not be repeated.
2 – To learn about the points of success so that they will be expanded or built upon.
We often tend to forget about the second point and just focus on the first, and that applies to many businesses, large and small alike.
In the future, basketball will be played on the moon!
1. He is the center for the Orlando Magic. Wears #12… You should prob know who he is if you watch TV or follow sports at all.
2. This are make no sense.
3. Right now, the Magic can only afford the MLE.
4. No.
5. Sure, just go buy the Sentinel and do it already.
by INTOTHEMEATGRINDER on May 13, 2011 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It looked like the Magic were about to establish themselves as an elite team after the trades on their nine game winning streak
Included in that nine game streak were wins against top teams San Antonio, Boston, and Dallas.
After that nine game winning streak, the longest Magic winning streak the rest of the season was just five games.
From the four players acquired in the trade, I expected the most from Jason Richardson. Even though Richardson had some injury problems, his inconsistent play was very disappointing. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, though, because he had no adjustment time going from Phoenix to the Magic. He probably will be better next season should the Magic re-sign him, having a whole off-season to adjust.
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC Conference runners-up
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on May 14, 2011 2:59 AM EDT reply actions
Not according to some Magic fans.
They figured he would be a beast halfway through the season and no offseason training camp and doing it while a whole team was blown up. I know you make look at a Rasheed Wallace trade that propelled Detroit to a title, but that was just one player added to a core. They entire team was changed here. I know my expectations were high, but maybe I should have known better. I mean every other team in the playoffs has either had a whole offseason and the season to to play together. I admit being wrong to the team, but the fact that they still won 50+ games was a miracle in itself.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
They won 50 games because Dwight was the statistical MVP and the defensive player of the year.
That’s it.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 14, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed.
And I’m sorry, but by the time the playoffs start, J-Rich had 4+ months in the system with practices and game scenarios to build off. I mean, I thought that making the trades so early in the season were to be prepared for the playoffs, not because they were panic moves… right? He had open shots and missed them. He didn’t attack the basket nearly enough and hardly got to the FT line. That wasn’t him failing to adapt in the system. That was him sucking. His laissez faire attitude towards defense didn’t help either.
Nobody was expecting him to average 20 pts/gm here (at least I hope not), but to not even average 15 and then to tank most of the playoff series is unacceptable given the circumstances.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
4 months does not equal Two offseasons.
Many coaches state that during the season they don’t actually get to practice like they do in an offseason.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Players get traded at the trade deadline and have more impact than Richardson did.
He failed. So did Turk. So did many other players.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Because they were not radically changing the entire team.
Orlando literally blew up the whole team. Outside of Phoenix players, Orlando players, Denver players and New York players, no other player was traded that was basically deconstructing the roster. Gerald Wallace fit seemslessly because he is one player. Phoenix was not better after the trade. New York was not better. Only Denver was. And all they did was lose in 5 games. So not as better as everyone thought they were. Phoenix did not make the playoffs and our old friend VC tanked their season. New York had one nice win against the Heat and did nothing of significance of the season. Orlando didn’t do anything outside of winning 50 games and the continued devolpment of D12. So again, you need offseasons to have real practices. I just find it funny that everyone is ready to kill J Rich after 4 months, but VC keeps getting excuse after excuse after excuse. Literally only this site has VC supporters in the entire world. Literally no one else thinks Orlando should have kept him. Rashard has more of an argument than VC.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Other people think things, so they must be right. Nice logical fallacy there.
Jason Richardson, aside from the enormous outlier of last postseason that seems to be the only time you can remember him doing anything at all, has been nothing but average. For his entire career. I know, I know, J-Rich had both of his feet amputated before the Atlanta series, so that is why he sucked. Oh, what is that? He only slightly injured one of his feet before Game 6 and otherwise sucked the entire series because of completely natural causes? Well then nevermind.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 17, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The same could be said about Rashard Lewis.
I didn’t say Richardson is an all-timer. I have said he is a volume shooter. Could he have done better? Yes. Should he get a big time contract from us? No. A reasonable 3 year $24 mil contract would be fine with me. Everyone compares him to VC, he was brought in to replace Rashard Lewis spot/role in the offense. Rashard Lewis had to be feed the ball. So does J Rich. Always thought they should have moved VC to the SF and put JJ as a starter. Doesn’t matter defensively when you have the SVG system and Dwight Howard.
I am not comparing J Rich to VC. I am comparing that VC has more support from this site than J Rich did, but they may have played the same position, but they had different roles. And I already stated that VC outperformed Turk. So if you compare J Rich to Lewis, it is not even close to being fair. Lewis had his struggles his first season here defensively. Then he became a stout defender here. Stop comparing J Rich to VC. Compare him to Lewis.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Wow.
Rashard Lewis was traded because Otis felt that his replacement was already on the team with Anderson and/or Bass. That PF rotation needed playing time, and the transition from Lewis to those guys was supposedly going to be seamless.
Vince Carter was traded because a vocal part of the fanbase wanted blood for the 2010 Eastern Finals, and because there was a perception that he was not a “winner” and all that he did was shoot long 2s and play bad defense (not true). Enter Jason Richardson, a man coming off a monster 2010 postseason who had those monster performances by shooting well, driving, and creating for himself as well as benefiting from playing with Steve Nash.
Make no mistake: J-Rich was expressly supposed to be an upgrade from VC, not from Rashard. J-Rich was supposed to be the athletic perimeter star that VC was probably too old to be. Rashard had nothing to do with that trade. Rashard’s trade had everything to do with Anderson, Bass, and the fact that Otis loves Arenas. That’s it.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 19, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Turk was brought in to create offensively where VC could not, and J Rich was suppose to receive passes from Turk, kind of how Lewis was suppose to receive passes from VC. Anderson and Bass were not going to be second and third options for this team. Lewis was second or third option. J Rich’s game is more similar to Lewis. J Rich is still athletic. I hate to keep repeating myself but if you go back and watch games, he is missed about 2-5 times a game for easy fast break points.
Turk was suppose to be creating on offense like he did two years ago. Anderson and Bass were more effective during the regular season. It allowed the trade for Lewis easier to do. Arenas was brought to replace Duhon, and probably Nelson if he is traded in the offseason. But J Rich has never been a VC type player. His game is pretty similar to Lewis. Shoot 3’s? Check. Drive to the rim once in awhile? Check. Grab about 4-6 rebounds a game? Check. Lewis is just a 6" taller Richardson. Anderson and Bass are different players than Lewis. Those guys provided rebounding and offense that they were not getting from Q. Don’t look at positions, more like role on the team(although Bass nor Anderson provided D that Q was suppose to bring to the starting lineup.)
Spot Up Shooter/Second scroing option-Lewis replaced by J Rich
Passer/Creator at the Wing-Carter replaced by Turk(Who was a better creator than VC, but not as good a scorer as VC)
5 starter-Bass replaced Q(who was better offensively[although he never passes, something Ryan rarely does as well]and solid individually, but still does not have team d concept down)
Bench-Duhon, Pietrus,Gortat, Bass, JJ- Shrank down to JJ, Ryno, and Gil(with J Rich spending more minutes at the 3).
That is what the trades did.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Should have kept VC and moved J Rich to the 3
Would he have got crushed defensively? Probably. But all of our players not named Dwight did. So no big deal to me.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Here are some facts:
-Otis did the trade in order to get Jason Richardson, and Turkoglu was the necessary baggage that the Suns required the Magic to take.
-At the time of the trade, Rashard Lewis was solidly the 4th option behind Dwight, VC, and Nelson.
-Richardson was always supposed to use his athleticism to create shots from the perimeter; that is his game.
-Shooting guard and stretch 4 are not the same position, no matter how many times you say it is. A stretch 4 is a spot-up shooter that drags defenders away from the rim, creating extra space for other players down low. A shooting guard like VC and what Richardson was supposed to be like drives and creates his own shots.
-It does not matter how many times Jason Richardson was missed for fast break opportunities; you don’t trade for someone because you think it will help your transition game. You trade for people because you need to improve something about the halfcourt game, which makes up the vast majority of basketball plays.
And until you accept those facts, which are facts, there is no point in discussing this further.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 19, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what?
I’ve given it a little more thought, and you’re a little right. Jason Richardson has always been more of a catch-and-shoot player than a driver. Yet Otis did still get him to replace Carter’s perimeter scoring, since Bassderson’s need for rotation minutes is what helped to cause Lewis’s trade. It’s fair to compare Bassderson to Lewis, and it’s fair to compare Arenas to Duhon (which is just about the only comparison that doesn’t end with Arenas EPICFAILing),
…and it’s fair to compare Richardson to Carter. Just because Otis doesn’t know what he’s doing doesn’t excuse Richardson. Yes, Otis traded for the wrong kind of player. No, Richardson doesn’t do anything for this team that someone else (Redick) couldn’t also do.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 19, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
I would compare Turk to VC Richardson to Lewis. In which case Richardson was a little bit better than Lewis, and Turk passed better, but VC scored more. I know Lewis was our 4th option. But our team was better when Lewis was the second option. That’s how we got to the Finals. So Otis tried to recreate that albeit with a smaller and less deep roster. Obviously it didn’t work.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Rip Hamilton, John Hornacek,
And others…..all starting 2 guards who did not create their own shots. Yes Richardson was suppose to replace VC scoring on the wing, but as far as what VC was suppose to do as in create for others that is not J Rich’s game. Never said it was. Never said it will be. Obviously he is not a stretch four. His game is similar to Lewis. Yes Turk had to be taken back, but he was taken because VC could not or would not create anymore and also we were getting 0 out of Q. J Rich was not asked to create for others. If he was, he would have had the ball in his hands more. Gil and Turk were brought in with the idea to create and get their shots. J Rich has never done that. He can be your leading scorer, but you gotta have a PG with elite-great passing skills. We never used him in the way his game is. Which is why he would be terrible in Chicago, but fantastic in New Orleans. If we had Turk from two years ago, I am pretty sure he would have had a better 4 months with us.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
What frustrates me the most is the lack of accountability. Otis ruins this teams chemistry (and future) and blunders more than once, yet his job is safe? SVG admits that alot of the teams problems stemmed directly from him, he had stated that several times even dating back to last season, yet we don’t even consider replacing him? How many times does Dwight have to call out his teammates for lack of effort before Van Gundy is seen as a terrible motivator and not a very good tactitian? And don’t give me this “SVG is an amazing coach” garbage. You know who was a good coach? Avery Johnson…the same Avery Johnson who was let go after having the best record in the league and taking his team to the finals. Who else was let go after similar success as SVG? Flip Saunders was handed as pink slip after having taken the Pistons to the ECF finals and having won over 50 games…Rick Adelman? Houston won’t bring him back despite having to work with a depleted roster and still overachieving. not only is SVG not held accountable, he refuses to bench starters who aren’t playing well, stubbornly keeping them in the game despite them struggling mightily all series (Rashard against Boston, JRich last series). G.M.? Fire Otis. I don’t even want to talk about Otis. Fire him. I’ll wait for the backlash for the audacity to question a coach that is apparently, on this site at least, above reprise.
My 'can do' spirits in the house, and its possessing your possessions did you hear it by the couch?
by Dome of the Rock on May 14, 2011 2:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I totally agree that Otis really has blundered enough to be dismissed.
And, sure Stan has his weaknesses. Motivating multi-millionaires to play full-tilt may be one of them. But I also think there are things about Stan that the players love.
I think Stan’s offense (limited as it may be at times) can work just fine if the players will execute it.
Hedo doesn’t.
Arenas? I’m frankly not sure.
Jameer seems to drift in and out of nova mode.
Bass? Can he?
The offense is predicated on ball movement and player movement, but players just stand around.
And pulling players to the bench for poor performance is a bit of a catch-22. You can’t have everyone playing tight and looking over their shoulder all the time. Nor can you ignore when players are going 1/2 way on the floor. But don’t be too quick to play armchair psychologist. Managing the egos of these ultra-competitive professional athletes is not an easy task (even though most every fan thinks it should be easy).
I think the combo of Otis as good [motivation] cop and Stan as bad [do-it-the-right-way] cop has worked pretty well since SVG joined the franchise. We have very little insight into the workings of the locker room or team dynamics, so a lot of what fans say is simply speculation based on trying to connect the dots we see while often ignoring the fact that the whole picture may require dots completely out of our vision.
I would be disappointed to lose SVG, but I would not be totally surprised to see him go.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on May 15, 2011 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions
people keep underestimating the fact that SVG managed to get defense from the current
roster (thanks also to Dwight). Of course he ain’t perfect and, like you, I can even understand after a really disapointing season (not last year) some folks wanted him out. Other times I think that this current roster doesn’t even deserve SVG. Avery Johnson got all the heat cause he clearly had the better team IMO. I don’t think we were better than Boston in that series last year and frankly after the trades and the weird season we had, most of us were counting on a miracle to go deep in the playoffs. The biggest issue with this team has been consistency and even if I can find things to blame Stan for, I can’t really blame him for that.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
by 44792212 on May 15, 2011 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This post is perfectly framed, and I only want to complement it in some regards.
Of course nobody is perfect, and neither is coach Van Gundy. What I recall from last year, though, is the ball movement which we have been praised for it, time after time. I tend to relate the deficiencies in that regard to the personnel’s failure to buy in – or adapt to – SVG’s system. Big flops were the signing of Duhon, and trade for J-Rich (none good movers of the ball) accompanied by loss of Rashard.
valid points. I just feel like there comes a point where you need to stop making trades and blowing up the team when you felt they’ve under achieved, and start holding the front office/coaching staff more accountable. I personally agree that it’s not easy to motivate players and get them to have full faith in the system, as well I can agree that it isn’t SVG’s fault the team shot so poorly. However, if the players have tuned him out and/or the system has been figured out by the opposing teams coaching staff, then that alone, in my humble opinion would justify letting him go. On the other hand, to be completely honest, if SVG were to be given another chance it wouldn’t totally upset me. Now Otis on the other hand, there should be no debate about his job security. He should have been fired the second we went down 3-1.
My 'can do' spirits in the house, and its possessing your possessions did you hear it by the couch?
by Dome of the Rock on May 15, 2011 4:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Arenas: "a man coming off three knee surgeries in the last three years "
I’m confused. Gil had his last knee surgery in September 2008.
A Magic fan here: I don’t like to say this but there is a great chance that Howard will moving to somewhere else unless Otis Smith can upgrade the rosters or he will be able to convince Dwight Howard to sign an extension. But if there is no major upgrade, I think its better to move Dwight Howard to New Jersey (his possible destination during free agency) together with Quentin Richardson, JJ Reddick for Brook Lopez, Brendan Wright, Damion James, Anthony Morrow and 2011 27th pick and 2012 1st round pick. Move Jameer Nelson and Brandon Bass to Minnesota Timberwoves for Johnny Flynn and Anthony Randolph and Martell Webster. Then we can shift Brendan Wright to Houston Rockets for Terrence Williams… STARTERS: Lopez, Anderson, Turkoglu, Morrow and Arenas… BENCH: Randolph, Vasquez, Williams, Webster, James, Flynn and Duhon….. For the 27th pick in the 2011 draft maybe the Magic can go for Jordan Williams or Jeremy Tyler both playing center position. I think I will settle with this rosters than picturing out the current rosters without Dwight Howard. But I’m hoping the Otis Smith has some tricks in his bag and get another caliber player like Chris Paul to pair with Howard and give him a reason to sign an extension.
Am i the only one laughing at this?
"You're gonna notice me when I come in. I'm gonna make a statement without opening my mouth, and when I leave, you're gonna remember that."
I think you're the only one that bothered to read through that.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on May 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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