SVG has done the least with the most
by Ahillock on Apr 5, 2011 11:23 AM EDT
Email
Print
Happy I'm not the only one that thinks SVG has done the least with the amount of talent he has had:
Which coach has done the least with the most
Graydon Gordian, 48 Minutes of Hell: Meanwhile, even with the significant roster changes, Stan Van Gundy's Magic should be on the other side of 50 wins at this point in the season. Orlando doesn't look like a contender, and much of the responsibility for that has to fall on Van Gundy's shoulders.
For which three coaches are the stakes highest this postseason?
Rahat Huq, Red94.net: Van Gundy for the Magic's imminent stagnation in the face of an impending Howard free agency;
David Thorpe, ESPN.com: Stan Van Gundy, because even though the poor personnel decisions made were not his choices, he still has to get this team to play like contenders this spring.
You can read more here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=5-on-5-110404
Sure Otis Smith might have made some poor decisions, however SVG has had more than enough talent to play better than they have been. If we don't get out of first round, SVG has to go. I'm sure DeVos will think the same after spending as much as they have this year and if they have nothing to show for it. Hopefully things will turn around soon.
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
79 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Okay.
I think the previous three years of exceeding expectations amidst a lot of doubts speak more volumes than winning 50ish games with one elite player and most of the other players playing at replacement level or below. He had his frontcourt depth taken away from him, was given a terrible back-up PG to start the year and was replaced with a barely better back-up PG. He’s had to watch perimeter players constantly allow guys to blow by them, leaving everything in Dwight’s hands to save the day. He can’t give his frustrated superstar any rest for fear of the entire team collapsing.
“He has to go”? Okay.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Apr 5, 2011 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Here is what a non-bias person had to say when I asked a question in his chat today.
Matt (Orlando)
So in the end of world scenario that Orlando fires SVG, please no, wouldn’t a team like the Hawks fire their coach just to get him? Actually wouldn’t 25 teams fire their coach to get him?
David Thorpe (12:31 PM)
When the Bucs unceremoniously fired Tony Dungy, everyone felt sorry for him. Except me, because I knew he’d be able to name his price and pick the perfect team. I was right. You are right on this. SVG would have almost any job he wanted.
All these guys have their own angles and have bias. Thorpe is one of those guys (Hollinger, Abbott come to mind) who basically calls what they see. If SVG gets fired trust me he will find a job in 30 seconds. Actually be scared if he goes to Atlanta. Or Indiana. Or Sacramento/Anaheim. Anywhere actually. He is just as integral to our success as Dwight is.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Obviously that is your opinion, but there are more and more sports commentators making these same
comments and conclusions. We will wait and see what the playoffs bear. That will separate the men from the boys.
"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10
"That will separate the men from the boys". WTF does that mean, man ?
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
I think that you (Ahillock) are misinterpreting the quote from Graydon.
Graydon is not saying that he approves of SVG’s work, rather, the opposite.
Fortunately, the NBA has a well-tested quantitative formula for determining who the best team is. It's called "the playoffs." - Robert Silverman
My mistake. I understand your post after a re-read. Please redact my previous comment.
I dissagree with your position.
Fortunately, the NBA has a well-tested quantitative formula for determining who the best team is. It's called "the playoffs." - Robert Silverman
When the players have shut it down for the last few weeks or so you can not do anything as a coach.
And I do not think the players have tuned out SVG either. I think they know they are knicked, have no depth, are locked into the 4th seed, and really just want to get to the playoffs. That is almost another half season people.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I think that seperates a great coach from a mediocre one
A great coach is able to rally his troops (i.e. players) and get them to play above their abilities. I guess the playoffs will show us the true character/makeup of this team. Just look at what Karl has been able to do with Denver lately. Now that is impressive.
"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10
George Karl also has a roster that goes 10 deep.
With guys who actually care to play defense and rebound, no less. Van Gundy has very few players who care about that. Also, some people felt Denver might have won that trade to begin with, including Knicks GM Donnie Walsh, reportedly.
This team’s performance only falls on Stan’s shoulders if you were foolish enough to believe those damn trades were productive in the first place.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Um...
Please explain to me how Gilbert and Duhon is “as much to work with” as Wilson Chandler and Ray Felton. I think you’re just reaching here. Stan has taken us pretty freaking far with a system that was worked very well offensively and defensively until this season. And as much as we all like to think the sky is falling, we’re something like 4th-5th in defense this year. It’s most certainly not SVG’s fault that I watched Gilb miss about 5 barely contested point blank layups against the Nets last week. Just name a better coaching candidate that is on the market right now than Stan. Waiting………still waiting……..right. There isn’t one. SVG is legit, we just have some seriously shaky (at best) depth right now.
Maybe if Phil Jackson wants back in post-lockout
He’d be the only guy I’d even consider replacing van Gundy with.
by eltharion_doa on Apr 6, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Doc is a great motivator...
But let’s not forget he’s the guy that Celtics fans were killing as recently as their playoff run to the title when they had to sneak by significantly inferior Hawks and Cavs teams.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
He won't have players in Orlando
He’ll have player.
by eltharion_doa on Apr 6, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No doubt
41 games is a long way from a title.
by eltharion_doa on Apr 6, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't rate Doc
When he doesn’t have three Hall of Famers.
Or, I should say, I don’t rate him as better than van Gundy. I think he’s a good coach, but no better than Stan. His players won him that title.
by eltharion_doa on Apr 6, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah well he outcoached SVG last year in the ECF and should have won another title
That is like saying Phil does not win without Michael, Kobe, and Shaq etc. No coach wins without HOF. Only Larry Brown and that is because Karl Malone was injured.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I know
My point is that he’s not going to have HoF caliber players in Orlando.
by eltharion_doa on Apr 6, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I just shudder to think what happens to a guy like Turkoglu with any other coach.
Oh wait, we’ve seen what happens and it’s ghastly. The way our team is constructed, we need a coach that will hold guys accountable or we’ll become a team that doesn’t play hard and has no chance in the playoffs. The Magic need guys like Van Gundy or Skiles in their coaching department to keep players honest.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
What some of us dreaded all along was that when the trades don't pan out, all the blames will be piled up on coach Van Gundy, and we are seeing the signs of that, here and there.
I have a suggestion for the proponents of the trades, if they care to retain coach Van Gundy; modify your position – even if so ever slightly – to protect the coach who has done “a lot” with “less” not the other way around, as this FanPost claims in its title. I recall a comment by Evan, basically asking – and I paraphrase – where the Magic could have been after the trades, if Van Gundy was not at the helm.
So who would you be happy with????
Phil Jackson???
Should we exhume Chuck Daly?
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Apr 5, 2011 3:56 PM EDT reply actions
That's what I don't get
Everyone bitches about SVG and says “fire him” But not one legitimate replacement candidate is ever named. He’s a top 5 coach in this league right now. Who the F could we replace this guy with?
Although, really, Thorpe isn't saying van Gundy's done the least with the most
All he’s saying is that van Gundy is under pressure to get this team performing in the playoffs, which I don’t think anyone would disagree with. That doesn’t mean he’s “done the least with the most” or even that he’s responsible for the team’s poor performance, or that he could or should be fired.
It just means he’s under pressure to get the team performing.
by eltharion_doa on Apr 5, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Stan definitely is expected to get this team Championship-caliber, yah, so I agree.
He /should feel pressure, definitely.
But I don’t think he should be fired if our off-season doesn’t go as planned. Unless Jerry Sloan expresses LARGE interest in coming to sunny FL, I don’t see anyone better.
"(Dwight) Howard averages 23 points and 14 rebounds per game and is the defensive basketball equivalent of a guy carrying a bazooka during laser tag. No one wants to play with that kid."-Matt Moore
I don't think championship caliber
Is a realistic expectation for this roster. If the Magic get bounced in the first round, I think van Gundy’s going to feel the heat but realistically, the Magic will be big underdogs in the second round.
by eltharion_doa on Apr 5, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the players and the GM, not the coach.
SVG doing a very good but not great job. Most of the issue that people seem to be blaming on Stan should instead be blamed on the players. We’re not a tough, scrappy, hustling team and we’re not going to be with this roster. Dwight is not even that player. Sure he’s a monster who can send a guy flying with the flick of a wrist but there in nothing intense about Dwight or any other member of the Magic since the loss of Matt Barns.
You also have to realize that Stan is being forced to “be easier” then he would normally be on these guys because of Dwight’s contract situation. He defends Dwight to a fault, doesn’t rip him for his many mistakes, needless fouls and abundant turnovers because the organization is playing the “be nice to Dwight and maybe he’ll resign” game. This spills down to other players as well.
Another key point is that there is NO floor leader on this team. Dwight should be but lacks the ability to formulate words into meaningful directions, especially on the fly. They most you’ll get out of him is “We just gotta play hard”. Nelson is no court leader and prefers to chew on his mouth piece rather then instruct or motivate. So who does that leave? Hedo? Nobody can understand him and even if they could Turk could care less on most nights.
There are dozens of problems on this roster and only the blind can overlook those faults and place the blame on Stan. We are a soft team, who doesn’t hustle or play with any intensity on most nights. We are a quiet team. That is the kind of players we’ve acquired. Stan cannot be blamed for that. All of the blame goes on Otis and I hope every day that I’ll wake up and he’ll be fired. It’s rare to fire a GM and not also change coaches but I hope we get the opportunity to experience that here.
Crushing weaker minds since 1978
Over 1 million served.
I think the team is coasting right now, and SVG has trouble with coasting
The players have got to be thinking, “Why shouldn’t we coast?”. They’re in 4th place no matter how hard or little they try in any given game. If the try too hard, they might incur injuries. Who wants Jameer in the doctor’s office with JJ?
This article is fine, but the timing is wrong. I think the Magic are biding their time because they have nothing to gain or lose in these final games. They are saving their energy for the playoffs.
Stan must understand all this, but he takes every loss personally, which is one of the main reasons I love him as our team’s coach. With that said, I’m betting what he’s telling the players in the locker room in these final weeks is a bit different from what he’s telling the press after each loss. He’s a tactician. His public statements are part of his game plan leading to the playoffs. Stan isn’t the problem. The roster’s the problem.
To say he’s doing the least with the most is naive and to some extent, probably emotional.
"The least with the most"?
Neither he has done “the least” nor he had work with “the most.” This team is just not good enough. Which is unfortunate. For us.
I for one Hopes SVG is gone after this season.
I don’t like his Offense at all. His matchup game is suspect and it will show int the Playoffs.
Sloan for coach… Pick and roll all day!
Pick and Roll??
And what exactly do Turk and Dwight run? The Turk and Dwight? Its called pick and roll. You know you never really make sense when you talk bro. SVG has a supreme offense and defense(top 10 in both ever since he has been in Orlando just in case). Hence the reason he has won 50 games or more in EVERY SINGLE SEASON except one. And that was when he took over a team that was already 0-7. Do not blame SVG for trading for Vince Carter. Do not blame SVG for not getting Kyle Lowry in a trade two years ago(if we were giving up a first round pick why did we ger Rafer Alston instead of Kyle Lowry?). Do not blame SVG for not being able to give Dwight a breather. Do not blame SVG for having no backup PG. Do not blame SVG for anything wrong with the Magic at all this year. We are going to win 50 games yet again, and you want to blame the coach?
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
YUP.
Turk & Howard run the pick and roll… SOMETIMES. And Defense? C’mon.. We’re up there ONLY because of one man, Dwight Howard. And as for the trades (like it or not), SVG has “some” sort of say in any transactions.. We’re not as good as last year and our record shows it.
I’m tired of people praising him when it’s his fault why we got knocked out last playoffs. His lack of matchmaking killed us, as well as our outside game.
Blame the players, sure.. But he has to get his fair share of blame as well, that’s why I say he should go.
A lot of fans here love the 3pt game as well as the 4-1 SVG offense, and barely complain about it. I think our 3 Pt game and our offense is suspect.
We still go away from Howard in the 4th Qtr. Most notably in a close game. Howard should be our go-to guy, Period. 1st or 4th Qtr. Who’s fault is that? Don’t tell me the players!
Suspect enough for 4 straight 50 wins. Yup.
Come on man. Apparently you are not troll because of how long you have been here, but every single time it is the same thing…SVG sucks, the offense is terrible, the defense is worst, blah, blah, blah, blah , blah. So if the Magic make it to the Finals will they better than last year’s team? Nope because their record is worst right? Dwight lead the league in rebounds and blocks last year, so was he better last year or this year? Blame? Marginal in my opinion. In the playoffs with Orlando he has always made it past the first round. 1 Finals appearance and two ECF appearances. Also the Finals run was without his All-Star Point Guard. SVG is not one of the problems with this team. If he is he is at the bottom of the list. Below Dwight by the way. SVG does not turn the ball over 4 times a game. Dwight is still the MVP.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
The Magic run more pick-and-rolls than the Jazz do. In fact, the Jazz hardly run pick-and-roll anymore. Near the bottom of the league the last several years.
They run the flex offense, which is brilliant when the right players are involved.
Sloan’s a pretty bad defensive coach, really. His teams foul too often.
Look at the Jazz's historical foul rate. It should indicate his teams foul a TON, even as personnel changes.
He urges them to hammer people if they get close to the goal. Old-school intimidation rhetoric. It’s ineffective.
Evan why are we even bothering?
This guy obviously does not watch games or use stats.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Take a look at our records for the past 3 years..
59 wins, 23 L’s from 2008-2010.. Decline.
Our home and away wins/losses.. Decline.
Yeah, we made changes, had injuries.. Not an excuse.. Not now. You can go only so far blaming the players.. It’s time for SVG to take some blame. He’s the Coach.
Yeah, Sounds like a broken record for three years..
2008-09: Finals
2009-10: ECF
2010-11: First round out? 2nd round??
We’ll see.
Yeah, it's SVG's fault the quality of the players has uniformly declined across that period
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Is stupidity an emotion?
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Apr 6, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The only team to win more playoff games or series the past 2 years is the 2-time-champion Lakers
Pretty much makes the Magic elite by definition.
The plural of "anecdote" isn't "data."
Sloan for coach...
For one year before he finally is physically unable to keep up with the rigors of being a head coach in the NBA. Maybe we can rotate him with Larry Brown.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Hey at the end of the day, SVG is a Good coach.
But the Magic are on the Decline. We need new Everything.
New GM, New Coach and some New players as well. The Magic need to have a Fire sale in order to keep Howard in Orlando and on the road to a Championship. I personally don’t think we can do that with Stan and Otis at the helm.
We need a new arena too
new dancers
new mascot
new jerseys
new panic buttons
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Apr 6, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
LMAO Rec'd for "new panic buttons"
"I never look at the points," Howard said. "Rebounds and blocks are what win games for me."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
You expect a firesale to be complete...
And the entire thing to be rebuilt to championship level by the end of next season, which will likely be shortened? Okay.
If we go through a firesale, Dwight will be part of it, in the scenario where Dwight plainly states he won’t resign here.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
That type of attitude got us into the situation we are in now.
And this blame is not squarely on Otis. Turk put him in a bas situation. Orlando wanted to keep him, but he wanted too much money. If Turk didn’t get greedy, which he had the right too but he really should have realized how perfect he fit here, the Magic could have added Bass and kept Gortat, I think the Magic would have gone back to the title. I know Courtney has been an “average” player since he left, but he also has not played with Dwight Howard since he left. Or been coached by SVG. Again the VC trade was not a bad trade, literally turned Rafer Alston and Tony Battie into someone who just had averaged 20 5 5 the season before while also adding Ryan Anderson. It is easy to say now that they should have let core grow together, but you have to give the management group credit for going into the luxury tax and trying to swing for a home run deal, it was, but it ended up being a fly out at the warning track.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
This thread needs an UN-Rec.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Apr 7, 2011 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I am with you.
"I never look at the points," Howard said. "Rebounds and blocks are what win games for me."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
It's sometimes hard to appreciate a good coach
Then again, when the two time champs are considering your coach as a possible successor for arguably the best coach of all time, you guys might want to throw him a bone:
http://losangeles.sbnation.com/los-angeles-lakers/2011/4/5/2091754/lakers-phil-jackson-stan-van-gundy-coaching-rumors-dwight-howard-andrew-bynum-orlando-magic-nba
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/4/5/2092244/how-about-stan-van-gundy-as-next-coach-of-the-lakers
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/4/5/2092993/open-discussion-re-stan-van-gundy-other-laker-coaching-candidates
When it comes down to it, he’s made the best out of a crap roster outside of Howard. He’s devised a system that works for them on both ends, and if you want to tweak him, that’s fine, as we do the same for Phil all the time, but in the end, he’s probably the best coach available for your club.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Aw, crap.
That’d be great, just great: to see Howard and Stan win titles with the Lakers. ugh
/shoots self
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
Caracas, Venezuela.
by North of the South on Apr 7, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This has always been my nightmare scenario
Dwight taking SVG wherever he goes. I really do not think people understand how good their relationship actually is. Also veteran’s who have played for him, aside from Shaq, have always respected him. He helped make Lamar Odom into Lamar Odom. Easy to forget Wade was injured in Game 7 of the ECF when they lost to Detroit. He played, but he was not 100%.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
You've got it completely backwards
SVG gets more out of less than any other “contender” in the league…
You think Billy Donovan even sniffs the playoffs, let alone brings a team to the finals ahead of schedule, or drags the corpse of Vince Carter to the conference finals?
SVG is one of the top 3, if not the top, coaches in the NBA…not many have a better understanding of the game, few can get a defensive system in place like he can.
Look at the roster aside from Dwight Howard. These are horrid defenders. Yet the team is once again a top 5 defense, even with below average guys all over the court. You can give dwight some credit, but that is all SVG……
If you want SVG gone after this year...
Enjoy your 42-45 wins, 5 seed, and Dwight in purple & gold…cause that’s where the team is headed without him
by ManBearPig21 on Apr 9, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd be freaking ecstatic if the Magic managed to be the 5 seed in a post-Dwight and post-SVG world.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Apr 9, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Man, that would depend on what type of deal we could get from a trade with the Lakers...
if the Magic get nothing in exchange, and considering how the team would be over the salary cap anyways… the Magic wont be a playoff team (despite the effort they showed today against Chicago).
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
Caracas, Venezuela.
by North of the South on Apr 11, 2011 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Given the lack of legit size in the East
And how crappy the middling and lower playoff teams are, I wouldn’t call ~40 wins with say Bynum instead of Howard completely unreasonable.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Orlando Pinstriped Post
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Contact Us
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Finally, Shelvin Mack and Robert Pack have a dance dedicated to them (VIDEO)
- Create-a-Caption: Allen Iverson, superfan
- Kobe Bryant-themed Gotye cover song waxes wistful for ‘The Kobe That We Used to Know’ (VIDEO)
- After the city canceled its outdoor viewing party, Oklahoma City Thunder fans work to get it back
- Chris Kaman eats breakfast in room of death, plays Sasquatch, builds giant medieval weapon
