NBA Trade Deadline: Orlando Magic Unlikely to Make a Trade, Says Source
by Evan Dunlap on Feb 21, 2011 9:24 PM EST
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The Orlando Magic are still unlikely to make a deal before Thursday's 3 PM NBA trade deadline, according to a source who spoke to Orlando Pinstriped Post. Orlando, which already made two dramatic deals this season, probably needs another backup big man prior to the playoffs in order to strengthen its rotation against deeper teams. However, those earlier trades cost the Magic, in Marcin Gortat and their 2011 first-round draft pick, their best trade assets.
The Magic could still add to their roster after the deadline via free agency, especially when the pool expands to include players whose teams have bought out their contracts. The most prominent name linked to Orlando in this scenario is that of New Jersey Nets power forward Troy Murphy, who's surfaced in multiple reports over the last month. In the latest one, Sam Smith says rival executives expect Murphy to sign with Orlando if he is bought out.
Obviously, the situation is fluid and could change at any moment. In 2009, Orlando landed Rafer Alston just before the deadline despite remaining quiet in the days leading up to it. Alston started at point guard for the injured Jameer Nelson, then an All-Star, and helped propel Orlando to the second NBA Finals appearance in franchise history.
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orlando can still land murphy after the trade deadline..
right?
by bimbim3000 on Feb 21, 2011 9:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes, after the deadline is buyout season.
Murphy would become a free agent if the Nets bought him out. So he can be picked up by any team.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
Looks like he's headed to GS
http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/40247058824835072
Adrian Wojnarowski just tweeted it. Says the GS – NJ part is solid (aka done) and then he added…
http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/40248058579132417
Where he wrote it is believed he would be bought out from GS making Orlando one of the main players for him.
Im down with OPP, yeah you know me!
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Its looking more likely
that Melo will be heading over to NY, so the Nets just might buy out Murphy instead of dealing him to GSW in a 3 way trade
*kills*
:D?
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 21, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
A mental picture
of a white flag pops up.
Otis, you better not lose the best Magic player in history to FA. You made this mess you SOB.
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Feb 21, 2011 10:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
What's he supposed to do?
If there were an obvious trade to make, he would have made it already. There’s not a big market for what Orlando can offer.
by Evan Dunlap on Feb 21, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
do you think we overpaid in the PHX deal?
what did PHX really give up? an expiring deal in JR for an expiring deal for VC? virtual wash no matter which player is marginally better.
hedo? they were dying to trade him.
clark? though he shows real promise, he wasn’t getting any time there on a .500 team, reflecting their low opinion.
essentially, they received gortat, a first rounder, and excised hedo’s contract for the small onus of taking pietrus and a marginal loss in the jr/vc component.
hard to see why we had to throw in the 1st rounder.
by Half-man Half-gortat on Feb 21, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
But Hedo was more valuable to us than Gortat.
You think the Suns didn’t know that?
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Not trade for Arenas, that's one thing.
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Feb 21, 2011 11:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Is J. Rich really that devalued on the trade market?
He still has years left if a team wants to resign him or they could use his expiring contract to free up cap room for the future. Seems someone would want him for a useable piece for orlando.
Man you know what I'm sorry but if we dont get a bigman before the deadline Otis is and Idiot.
I credit him for things like the Rafer Alston trade and drafting C.Lee but guess what he does he trades him away after 1 year for a over-the-hill-star. You know what I just think he should get fired. Don’t forget about him trading for Arenas which seems it was more personal than business like.
Finally, finally the Melo saga is over.
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17443219
The domino will now start falling.
damn dude
you had this on before espn did
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Feb 21, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
You mean us?
Dwight, Deron and Durant. The best set of D’s since Pam Anderson’s younger years.
jk.
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Feb 21, 2011 11:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I replied to the super team comment
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Feb 22, 2011 12:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That has been the history of the NBA
Wilt and Kareem forced themselves to the Lakers. Carter forced his way out of Toronto. T Mac forced his way out of Orlando. Shaq left Orlando. Boston got Ray Allen and KG. Houston tried Hakeem, Scottie, and Barkley. Lakers had Payton, Malone, Kobe, and Shaq. LeBron took his talents to South Beach. And now Melo is in the Big Apple. Players always want to play in certain spots. I do not understand what the big deal is. We want Dwight to be loyal, but fans are pleading with Chris Paul to come here. Huh? These guys have a right to leave. Does it suck? Sure. But if they leave, it is not because they are not loyal, they found a better way to do their business.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
by Mateo9399 on Feb 22, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
"But I'm still down with OPP."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Let the Chris Paul to NYC rumours begin!
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
pfft
puh-lease, he’s going to Miami! WOO!
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 22, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
This is a big gamble on Otis' part
He’s basically putting all his eggs in Murphys basket. If he’s traded to a team like Golden State they just might keep him to spite Otis (remember the CJ Watson fiasco?). If we don’t get another big man we can kiss this seasons title goodbye. Howard can’t do it all.
the cj watson "fiasco" was with different GS ownership
by Half-man Half-gortat on Feb 21, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
The only “CJ Watson fiasco” I can think of offhand is his shooting percentage with the Bulls.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
All I know is this is a huge gamble on his part, so we’ll see if Murphy is here in the next week or two. But if he’s not Otis has some problems on his hands.
Well, yes and no.
There will likely be multiple big men who ARE bought out. So even if the Magic don’t land Murphy, they could get one of them.
And even if they don’t pick up a big man, they’re probably okay provided Dwight, Bass and Anderson all stay healthy.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
For some reason
I initially thought you meant Stephen Curry.
He doesn’t even play for Minnesota.
But if the Wolves had any sense whatsoever, he would have.
(If Stephen Curry does get bought out, I say we sign the guy.)
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Our best hope is:
Troy Murphy?
Why not Fran Vag-quest also?
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Feb 21, 2011 11:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Trashing people that have done nothing to deserve trashing - very classy.
Vasquez is under contract until the end of his current season, and will be eligible to come over during the summer, CBA talks permitting.
lol
It’s what he didn’t do
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Feb 22, 2011 12:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Unaware that you were apart of the class police
I know you’re not talking. You talking the most BS around here. Gtfoh with that class talk bro.
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Feb 22, 2011 12:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
"nothing to deserve trashing"???
I kindly disagree with that statement.
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Feb 22, 2011 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Fran aint coming to save nobody
If this guy wanted to play in the NBA he would have done it by now… and if he does decide to come he’s not going to all of a sudden play at an NBA level… he will have to transition… Dont think Dwight Howard is counting on him helping him win a title any time soon…
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not exactly dying with anticipation with this acquisition
it all hinges on circumstantial things to all fall into place. The Nets needs to buy out Murphy, if they find a bidder then this is all of naught. Then he has to consider new offers. I suppose Orlando will offer the most money, but perhaps he might get more minutes elsewhere.
Even if he signs, he’s not exactly the “big man” I envisioned. I was expecting a ‘Brandon Bass on stilts’ kind of player. And he hasn’t played regularly for months, he must be out of match fitness and be overweight. Ah well, he’ll be 6 more fouls for us.
If we're getting Troy Murphy like 5 years ago...then I'd be excited.
Otis’ has been getting players who are past their prime. I can’t blame Howard if he decides to leave. There’s a trend going and Otis seems to be the only one who thinks that Dwight can do it all.
So when the Celtics got everyone past their prime in 07 it was ok??
Don’t be mistaken, KG, Ray Allen, and Pierce were all past their primes. Yes Rondo was their, but he was not Rondo yet. IF they get Troy, I would like the team even more. They would have 4 legit bigs plus an x factor in Clark. Plus Troy can rebound and shoot the 3.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
When the Celts got KG, Ray Allen
Both players were playing some of their best ball in their careers… plus they are Hall of Famers… Troy Murphy is just another Average joe
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Back in '07 I don't think they were that done yet...
Yes, I guess you can say they were past their prime but they’re still playing well. Heck even right now, Allen and Pierce can still bring it. Now you talk about a guy like Murphy who is not even getting floor time.
My point is, why not just get another fresh starter who can take some load off Dwight, instead of getting more role players. We already have a lot of great role players and we have one of the deepest bench in the league, this is not “Who’s got the deepest bench contest”.
As Evan already noted
The only reason Murphy wasn’t getting PT is because he was hurt to start the year and Avery Johnson is a wannabe Greg Popovich w/o the coaching ability. He put Murphy in the doghouse for some reason and told him to get lost.
Im down with OPP, yeah you know me!
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
You take what's available
A 3 month Murphy rental is better than no 3 month Murphy rental.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly People
What is Troy Murphy going to do? He cant even get on the floor for a sorry New Jersey team… His hay days in Golden state are long behind him… Troy Murphy isnt going to help this team worth a Poooo….
Otis made our bed with the Gilbert Trade…. now we have to lay in it and watch all these other teams assemble trio’s of superstars……
If Gil doesnt play like a super star (which I highly doubt he ever will) then the Magic are done for!!
Thanks Otis for morgaging our franchise on your buddy Gil who is fat lazy and old
Well, Murphy is an upgrade over Allen but I doubt that he would come even close to Gortat which was foolishly lost.
In addition, our other problem remains to be quality perimeter defenders, which could only be fixed through creative trades. But it seems that would not be forthcoming.
And by “foolishly”, you mean “in order to get Hedo, without whom we’d still be lacking in ball movement on the floor.”
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Wasn't PHO willing to dump Hedo's contract?
I exhausted this debate before. As confirmed by Evan, our intention was to get J-Rich for Vince, but PHO wanted to dump Hedo’s contract. Considering J-Rich for Vince a wash – this has been argued to death before – which side should have the leverage? We needed to make salaries work, but give up one of the best back-up centers in the league + our best perimeter defender + cash + a pick? If that is not the definition of foolish by itself, I don’t know what is?
Pietrus and Gortat for Hedo
I would do that trade. Wait for Hedo to be healthy, when he was when he first got here, and the Magic will be fine.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
So what else did you want from Phoenix?
Nothing else entices me. We grabbed Earl Clark, and actually if do not resign J Rich we do not have to pay him 4 mil and we save 2 million more(14 instead of 13 and the extra million is luxury tax savings). But what other player would you have liked from Phoenix? Robin Lopez? And seriously stop acting like you know more than every other poster, I thought we out this to rest when we kind of shut you down about the your “Opinion” of the defense instead of the actual stats, or facts, about the defense. Maybe you are missing a point.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
by Mateo9399 on Feb 22, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Matt
You really need to work on your put downs lol.
“Mr. amateur statistician!” wow. just sayin…
Im down with OPP, yeah you know me!
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Yeah, you may be right.
Sarcasm and put downs are not my strong points. But seriously, it baffles me when people throw stats in my face, especially those who hardly – if ever – have used stats in their lives.
So what?
Orlando can’t just agree to take it. The Magic had to give up (near) equal value in a trade. By packaging a Hedo deal with the Carter/Richardson swap, the Magic scored a TPE and Earl Clark as well.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
He can't get on the floor for New Jersey because a) he was hurt and b) Avery Johnson is a clown who'd prefer to play Kris Humphries.
by Evan Dunlap on Feb 22, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Is there any sign he's healthy and playing better /now/ though?
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Feb 22, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
He's healthy
Though no “fit” in a basketball sense. Whether or not he’s actually any good any more remains to be seen.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
Um, no.
They traded Lewis for Arenas. Not saying Arenas is helping, but was playing Lewis over Anderson or Bass doing anyone any good?
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
What would have done us good
was to keep Lewis for next season and in 2013 when he had one year left on his contract we could of used him in a trade to aquire another big star…… now we have Gil who is signed through 2014
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
So in other words, it's exactly the same thing.
Except it’s one year later. Big freaking deal.
Oh, and Gilbert isn’t blocking two better players from playing.
And who knows, maybe Gilbert will find a way to adjust and contribute. Do you really think Lewis was going to adjust to anything?
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
by 3.3seconds on Feb 22, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I second this
Gilbert isn’t as horrible and washed up as some people make him as. He’s definitely not ever going to be the Gilbert of 4 years ago, but he still has game and was playing pretty well with Washington (fg% aside) before he got traded.
He is still getting used to SVG and coming off the bench/playing less minutes..and the best part of that trade was being able to play Bass and Anderson more. Rashard Lewis got OLD fast, and he was nothing more than a spot up 3 point shooter. Just like Arenas has lost a step due to injuries, Lewis lost a step due to age. The trade added another year, but Dwight will make up his mind in 2012, so even if we had Lewis, we might have lost Dwight anyways the year before Lewis’ contract is up. And since expiring contracts are not what they used to be, we might not have been able to trade Lewis
by supermantotherescue on Feb 22, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
He has very little game
He’s a decent playmaker who doesn’t defend, can’t drive, and can’t shoot. He has no explosiveness left, he’s overweight, and his knees are done.
Lewis, with Washington, is most or less an average NBA player, and he’s back to scoring efficiently and defending rangy forwards well. Arenas, with Orlando, is one of the worst PGs in the NBA, and he can’t defend anyone.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Lewis is a much, much smarter player than Arenas
And he’s shown in the past he’s willing to moderate his natural game to better fit the team’s needs. I have no reason to suspect he wouldn’t adapt to whatever role van Gundy gave him. And, as we’ve seen by his very solid numbers in Washington, he’s still a capable player, if not what he was.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Lewis could have backed up Hedo
And given the big man rotation depth. Maybe Orlando wouldn’t have dropped so many games with Bass hurt if Lewis was off the bench instead of Clark. Who knows?
You didn’t have to trade Lewis to bench him.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
who cares what team they previously played for?
It’s one thing to not like Troy Murphy because you might not feel like he will help the team, however it’s a completely different thing to not like him simply because he played for 1 particular team years ago.
Also, why do you not like Murphy so much? We add a good rebounding and shooting big man (who’s much better than Malik Allen, btw) without having to give up any of our assets.
And if you think that the Magic haven’t been looking for a guy like Joel Pryzbilla (sp?), you’ve got to be kidding yourself.
"But I'm still down with OPP."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
You're missing the point there...
Otis is oddly bringing in all his ol’ “boys” form GS. J-Rich, Gil, and Murf. Doesn’t exactly seem professional. It’s amost as though he’s not looking at anyone who wasn’t a player in the good ol’ GS days. Makes me wonder, as I always have, how well Otis actually looks around the league or if he ONLY talks to people he used to know.
Either way, the end is near, with Melo in NY now, it’s possible we become the 5th team in the East. And it because of Otis, passing, ignoring or slacking on opportunities. But he’ll remain ever patient, and wait himself right out of the GM position.
Crushing weaker minds since 1978
Over 1 million served.
by Matty B on Feb 22, 2011 12:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, Earl Clark, Hedo Turkoglu, Rafer Alston. Those guys played on Golden State too didn't they?
Also, you’re nuts if you think this trade will help the Knicks improve in the standings. They have 4 players who should play rotation minutes in the league, past that they have nothing. Their defense is going to be abominable.
I'm more curious about their offense than their defense:
Melo + Amare/D’Antoni’s system = what exactly?
Although I guess Billups could be the missing piece of that equation.
I guess that's the way the whole durned human comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself.
Oh, I absolutely acknowledge that their defense will probably be in shambles,
particularly under D’Antoni. That’s why it’s not really interesting to me.
I just wonder if they are actually going to improve on offense. I think they are already around 8th or so, and it seems like to me they’ve just paired two guys together who don’t move the rock so well. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t really improve across the rest of the season.
I guess that's the way the whole durned human comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself.
Agreed.
Not to mention, they won’t have the cap space or assets to obtain CP3 or D-Will since they just exhausted all of their assets on Melo.
Matty B got it right...
Also my frustration over this issue isnt all about Troy Murphy… its about the fact that All the other Eastern Confrence teams are getting better and filling their teams with All-stars… and we have dwight and a bunch of Okay players……..
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
J-Rich
Everybody hates the Gortat trade, but Dwight has gotten much better at staying out of foul trouble and he’s such a specimen that he can play 38-40 minutes a game and not show signs of wear. I agree we should get a big man, but I think we need a defensive minded big who can come in and spell Howard for short stretches. We have plenty of bench scoring with JJ, Anderson, Gilbert (gag), and whatever starter we leave out there with them. I don’t think Troy Murphy is the answer. That being said, it doesn’t look like there are a lot of options out there. Looking forward to a good second half/playoffs from J-Rich, he’s getting good shots, and I’m assuming he starts knocking them down now.
OK, who?
If Murphy isn’t the answer, where does Orlando magically obtain this defensive minded big from?
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Off topic
Does anyone else realize our first 3 games in March are as follows:
1st vs. NY
3rd @ MIA
4th vs. CHI
Yikes! We will certainly know who the Magic are by March 5th! We should be able to sweep the 3 games in Feb though…
Yeah, DJ Magic MagicMark, they are good...
Oh and the just added a guy who we can’t guard. Some Melo character. So yes, their pretty good. Despite giving up some decent players to acquire him.
Crushing weaker minds since 1978
Over 1 million served.
by Matty B on Feb 22, 2011 12:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right, because outcomes of games in early March win you a Championship or lose you one
Or because records against top record teams in the regular season are good predictors of teams that win championships.
"But I'm still down with OPP."
http://www.twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://www.twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Yes but Orlando's next five games are over 10 days with no back-to-backs
until the night after the Miami game. That part of the schedule I do like. That the game after Miami is against Chicago I don’t really like, but we’re at home on that one.
If Otis is smart..
He better be working on when Williams and Paul is available.. Or we can all wave bye to Howard.
So is winning the lotto but it doesn't hurt to try.
Crushing weaker minds since 1978
Over 1 million served.
by Matty B on Feb 22, 2011 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think he probably is concerned with it,
but I think it is all up to the new CBA, at this point.
I guess that's the way the whole durned human comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself.
He's Not
He bet all his chips on that lame duck Gilbert…. With Gil’s contract we will be handicapped for 3 years now… especially when the new CBA is formed where im guessing teams will not be able to go over the Salary Cap anymore
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Either that or he's scheming toward the CBA.
He did say he “might” plan for some short term losses in order to achieve long-term gains.
the problem is
No one in the NBA will take on Gilbert and the 3 years remaining on that contract…. We are stuck with him for 3 freaking years… Dwight knows that and, does anyone really think dwight wants to wait 3 more years to play with another All-star player…
Otis single handedly destroyed this franchise with that Gilbert trade….
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
It was a pre-existing situation, though.
They already had a guy with a $20 million contract who didn’t deserve playing time. At least Gilbert isn’t blocking Bass or Anderson from playing.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
He's blocking something bigger than that
He’s blocking the possibililty of us signing another star… now that we have gilbert we have no chance at getting a D. Williams or CP3… and we might have just made Dwight’s decision next season easy for him as well………
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Hello.
Did you not see what I just wrote? Lewis was already doing that. The only difference is that Arenas is doing it for one more season, in 2013-14, at which point none of this talk will be relevant anyway.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
That one extra season is 22 million dollars and a whole year
thats a lot of money that we could be paying someone else who is worth something……. thats all im saying
people act like that one year isnt a big deal but thats a ton of money man
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Which is important to the Magic's bottom line, maybe -- but not to the cap.
The Magic are over the cap indefinitely anyway. Assuming Howard sticks around and the Magic keep a supporting team around him, Arenas’ contract will have no effect on the team the Magic put on the floor — the only free agents this team is signing any time soon are minimum and exception guys.
In the unlikely event that Howard walks, Arenas’ deal will probably delay the team’s rebuilding efforts by a season. In that case, they’re probably better off staying bad for one more year and getting one more high draft pick anyway.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Which is relevant how?
Unless you’re telling me these Magic aren’t better than the Magic before the trades. I don’t think it’s even particularly close when everyone’s healthy. This is clearly an improved team. You forget because Bass was hurt and that threw everything off.
I bet they’ll be even better after the break, given that Stan has had time to run several days of practices and keep integrating the new guys into the team. And they’ll be even sturdier when they pick up SOME kind of bought-out guy to be the fourth big man, whether it’s Murphy or anyone else.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
We have exhausted this debate over the comparison of pre and post-trade teams while you took a leave of absence, and I hope we are not renewing that debate.
“This is [not] clearly an improved team”, as you have mentioned in your post. There is not such a clear cut difference between the two, to say the least. I think between you and I, we discussed the potential offensive improvement while concerns on defensive liabilities were raised relevant to wing players – individual capacities, in particular – and thinness of the frontline. Yes, Murphy is an upgrade over Allen, but he could come nowhere close to Gortat, in my view, plus he has been away from in-game playing for a while, and it is not clear what shape he is in.
The Magic are better offensively
And the defense the last 10 games has given up 92.9 points per 100 poss. I thought we went over the stats already?
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
We are not going to renew this discussion, are we?
Throwing stats at me is really smart. 1) 10-game stats don’t matter; 2) Hollinger’s stats, as I pointed out before, is the for the whole year and the pre-trade team has something to do with it; and 3) individual defense is not measured in defensive efficiency.
But post trade team has play more games than pre trade team
And yet now they are 3rd instead of 5th. Interesting.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Individual defense is actually measured in defensive efficiency. It doesn't really say a lot, other than which players play on better defensive teams.
It is really only useful for determining how that player defends in isolation. Even that is a bit flawed.
Team defense is better overall then individual anyways.
I would rather shut a team down instead of individual since basketball is a team sport. But didn’t you and I already show how the defense is practically the same??
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Between your lack of logic and MagicMark's persistence you make a good team.
This would be my last post on Magic’s defense with you two guys, and I would not respond to any response afterwards.
You can make whatever you want out of stats, but have shown that you don’t have the slightest idea how to combine quantitative and qualitative assessments. Individual intangibles matter in defense, and as we look at two starters (Hedo and J-Rich) and at least one PG back-up (Arenas) who are average or below average defenders that puts extra pressure on other players to compensate for their deficiencies, hence opening up opportunities for other opposing players. I have a world of faith in coach Van Gundy’s team defense anchored by the best defensive players in the league, but regardless individual defense matters. Done.
I don't even read your posts or MagicMark's or Mateo's when you guys are talking to each other. Didn't read this one.
Because you seem to just be bitching and sniping at each other.
Please, go hijack some other blog, all 3 of you. You’re dragging this one down.
Wow. I thought it was all 3 of you. But maybe it's just you and the others are right.
“Shut the hell up” isn’t a quality response.
Soooo…how ’bout that Magic, huh?
You really should read before lumping everyone.
I apologize if the whole blog suffers, but if I have an opinion and I see stats that support it I will defend it. If I’m wrong I’m wrong. Ethariondoa proved me wrong about J Rich compared to Anderson and Redick when it came to shot attempts. I have no problem accepting if I’m wrong, as long as you prove I’m wrong.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Brandon Bass is a good individual defender.
Brandon Bass was a terrible team defender last year.
Oh look, another one of your points refuted.
Our defense is sufficient to beat any team in a series, provided the guys play motivated and with energy.
What does it have to do with the opposite which is my base point?
I should have known the futility of trying to reason with you. You keep twisting issues to have the last word. You have the potential to surpass Mr. Polega in continuing with senseless debates. Good for you.
"You keep twisting issues to have the last word. "
The irony of this statement is shattering.
I've been doing some research and it turns out that Matt1325's responses don't mean anything.
It’s weird, but the analyses keep pointing to the same thing: this guy is drunk! or perhaps 15 years old, the models don’t square up 100%. Either way, every time this guy posts something, experts say that at the moment he hits “send”, his eyebrows pop up and he yells “boo-yah!!!”.
I am just a bystander, so I can’t say for sure if any of this is true. But in the interest of honest blogging, I have to say that matt1325 appears to be either a child, or a grown man off his medication.
by MagicPhan on Feb 22, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow. An idiot writes a stupid comment and another idiot recommends it.
It would have sufficed for both to admit that my writings are too complicated for their puny minds to comprehend.
Evan, this blog has plunged to a level which is unbearable for me to continue with contributing to it in terms of my writings. I will be reading your material and that of a few informed and intelligent contributors.
Evan, this blog has plunged to a level which is unbearable for me to continue with contributing to it in terms of my writings.
aw that’s a shame
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 23, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah.
That really matters.
In, um, 2013-14.
Up till then, Gilbert’s contract is just Lewis’ contract attached to a different guy.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
no
Gilbert’s Contract is more money and an extra year… that one year may be the difference in Dwight staying or Going
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
yes but
he would be on the last year of his contract when Dwight could opt out… making his contract easily tradeable……. we could have worked a sign and trade deal out in the summer of ’12 for a CP3 or D. Williams……..
Make sense now?
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Semantics
Regardless of when exactly it could be traded it was tradeable whereas Gilberts is not
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
He actually would not be on the last year of his contract.
The next year would be his final. Either way I understand what you are saying.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Why -- you want to end up like the Knicks?
New York shot themselves in the foot with this trade.
Carmelo Anthony is good at one thing and only one thing — making a large volume of average-efficiency shots. That’s great if he’s playing for a team that allows below-average shooting, but he’s a horrible fit with New York, which needs efficient scoring.
Meanwhile, say what you want about Raymond Felton… he’s not as good as his stats. But the Knicks need a point guard who thrives in the transition game, and Felton did that. Now they have Chauncey Billups, who is a great leader and not as washed up as some people are saying… but he’s too old and too half-court for this team.
And in 2 years, he’ll be retired. And they’ll have nobody under contract but a PF and a SF, both of whom do nothing but score. And those two guys will be making $40 million combined.
Depth is crucial. The difference between a regular player and a star is the same as the difference between a regular player and an empty roster space. The Magic have enough depth now, but just barely. They can’t mortgage it for the first guy they see with name value.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
I don't think Billups will retire in two years
He’ll only be 35/36, and right now he’s balling. Point guards last a lot longer than players at other positions. Even if he falls off the production cliff next season, he’ll be able to contribute to a veteran squad for a couple of seasons after that.
Wouldn’t surprise me to see him chasing a ring with Miami, actually.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe.
But Billups looked shaky early this year before rebounding with a good month or two. I could be wrong, but he doesn’t strike me as a player who has that much left to give.
I mean, he could hang on a while as a backup, or as a Derek Fisher-esque fifth starter for some team that is letting a wing guy run the offense — Miami sounds entirely plausible, actually.
But I feel he’s clearly declining, and having to play at the Knicks’ pace is not going to extend his career any.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Well, no
But even if the Knicks take up his option, it’ll only be to trade him next season.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 23, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
Depending on the trade
I am not sure we should make one. Really we need our open shots to fall in. They are not in the last week or so. The defense has been fantastic, but the ball is just not going in the hoop. Again barring Chris Paul throwing the gauntlet down, we should be fine. Hopefully Miami or Chicago gets the first seed. Want to avoid Boston as long as possible. But I do not see a reason the Magic can not at least make the ECF. If they get there anything can happen. If Turk is finally healthy now, the Magic will be ok.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
"But I do not see a reason the Magic can not at least make the ECF". At least? How so?
Do you realize that for the Magic to make it to the ECF they have to go through the 2nd or 3rd seed, which could be any of BOS, MIA or CHI? NNTR.
Unless you mean “if they can get to the ECF, there’s no reason they can’t go further, because the team they’ll face in the second round is as good as anyone in the league”…
…well.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
He said "can at least"
Not “will at least”.
I don’t think anyone’s claiming it’s a done deal, just that the Magic as they stand now have the potential to be that good.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
when do all the players on the magic
Play really really good??? I havent seen that happen in 20 yrs
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Your point?
They can — and have — beaten all of those teams.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
If they play Miami or Chicago
they should make it to the ECF. I still think that Magic have a decisive at center, and while the Heat have better players at 2 and 3, Richardson/JJ and Turk are not as bad to their opposites compared to whoever they line up at 5 to combat Dwight. And Jameer is better than any PG Miami has. Now, hopefully by then Jason Richardson will be Jason Richardson in which case Nelson would run wild(a la last year against Atlanta and Charlotte) and kills their PGs. Against Chicago, Nelson has actually outplayed Rose(I wonder if anyone realizes that if Jameer took as many shots as Derrick Rose he would probably average more points because he is a better shooter) when they have matched up. I think the Bulls matchup with good with the Heat only. Turk vs Deng, playoff Turk mind you, is a wash. Boozer is better than Anderons/Bass. Dwight destroys Noah. And J Rich/JJ destroy their two guards as well. So the Bulls do not actually matchup good with the Magic. The only matchup that scares me is Boston. Orlando rushes things too much sometimes against them. Everyone else they execute their offense, but they play figety(?) sometimes. When they play patient against them they are better than the Celtics. But either way if the Magic play the Bulls or Celtics, they will walk in with the best player in the series. And against Miami, Dwight negates LeBron. Everyone else plays to their potential they can beat Miami. So yes the Media will say Orlando is done, I think the Magic, depending on the matchups, should make the ECF. They will walk in with the combination of best player and the best coach in about in every series except the Lakers. (Dwight and SVG combined is better than LeBron/Spolstra, KG/Rivers, Thibs/Rose)
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I think I'd rather see Orlando face Boston than Miami, but the problem is...
They’re going to have to beat them both in order to reach the finals.
Really?
I think you might be the first. What scares you more about Miami? Aside from LeBron. What scares me about Miami is the refs. If LeBron and Wade go for a combined 50 free throws the NBA is screwed.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
It isn't what scares me about Miami...
I’m just more comfortable with Boston because the Magic have faced this squad the past 2 years in the playoffs. Third time’s a charm. I think the Magic believe they can take Boston down. I also think they had the talent to take them down last year, but not the belief that they could.
Miami has been a different team every time we’ve played them, this year. I think they’re more of a wild card in matching up to Orlando. Who knows what they’ll look like in round 2 or 3 of the playoffs?
But seeing as we’re going to have to play both of them to reach the finals, I would rather have Miami first. They’ll be equally dangerous in the 2nd or 3rd round. But Boston might be a bit more tired after 2 rounds of playoff basketball. In that scenario, they’ll probably have to go through Philly and the Knicks first. If we catch them in the 2nd round, they should be well rested after dusting off Indiana.
Trade for LOVE......
T’wolves are a joke… They just took Eddy Curry and Randolph contracts just to help the knicks to trade for Melo, in addition they give Corey Brewer to the knicks to help them (N.Y.) even more….WHAT A JOKE…. T’WOLVES SUCKS.
Otis try to get Kevin Love for Malik Allen, hey you never know Minnesota’s GM really “LOVE” to make no senses trades……..
Taking Curry is not that bad.
He fills up cap space that they were never going to use, and then expires so that they get ir right back while also picking up Randolph who would fit perfect next to Kevin Love. So Minny did really great in their trade.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I think Randolph is massively overrated, and this is still a good deal for the Timberwolves.
Brewer is a terrible player, and anything that gets him off the books is a bonus.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Oh, that's unfair.
He’s not as bad as Earl Clark. But he’s still not an NBA player.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Brewer has one skill: on-ball defense. He's also very athletic.
But he can’t dribble, shoot, rebound, or pass. He is not a rotation-caliber NBA player.
In all fairness
I didn’t realize Brewer’s contract was also expiring. So unless Randolph or Brewer suddenly starts not being awful, this trade is a wash.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
Earl Clark is pretty terrible
He just has a lot of upside. Brewer has no upside.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
I loved celebrating Brewer's contributions to the title teams on University Ave just as much as I think you did.
But Brewer is not very NBA good. At all.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 22, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
ditto
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 22, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
damn and blast!
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 22, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
You know the way ppl are acting in these threads
it makes me want to go back to celticsblog from last year when they were playing .500 basketball OVER THEIR LAST 50 GAMES.
Chill on the panic button people. Watch the Magic mess around and have one of their best post seasons yet!
by gatorboi352 on Feb 22, 2011 1:45 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Thank you. That needed to be said.
I’d be happy will less intra-blogger sniping, too.
by MagicPhan on Feb 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I believe otis
with a little luck has setup some really good moves. 1st we all know he is crazy about Mayo and i believe he will try and trade J.Rich for Mayo and whatever else memphis wants to throw away. 2nd Gil will opt out and sign for less bc it shows his loyalty to otis for saving his career and giving him a fresh start plus i live in the DC area and that was the first thing that was brought up when the trade went down. 3rd Otis has put together a very deep and talented team and we could make a strong push for Williams IMO over Paul bc Williams has great size 6’3 205 or plug Mayo in at the 1 and go after a top 2 guard. I think we just have to be patient and let otis do his thing even though right now things dont look to good for us. But we could easily have a trio of Williams Mayo and Howard which would be alot younger than the constructed trios
You really think Gil wil opt out of his contract?
To quote Mulder, “I want to believe….”
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I think so! I also believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and I plan to visit Middle Earth for my birthday!
(Kidding. But I shouldn’t have to write it this time.)
I guess that's the way the whole durned human comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself.
Well you can actually go to Middle Earth.
Go to New Zealand. They left all the sets there. It was out in the middle of nowhere anyways. Maybe Gil will opt out.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Just kidding on that last part
But the whole Middle Earth thing is real.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
LOL. Thanks. That was awesome.
I guess that's the way the whole durned human comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself.
Mayo isn't a point guard. We have almost literally zero chance of trading for DWill or CP3 at this point in time.
And while I certainly would do no-handed backflips if Gil opted out of his current contract, I am absolutely not holding my breath.
I think it's more likely
that the new CBA includes some kind of Allan Houston deal that will allow us to void Gilbert’s contract. (Or at least to let it out of the cap.)
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
I don’t think it’ll make much difference, given that we’re over the cap anyway. As I said, it might make a difference in 2013-14, but not before then.
And I haven’t heard it discussed specifically. But it stands to reason that, if they do end up lowering the cap as it’s expected they will, they will give teams some way to get a little closer to complying with the new cap…
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
it would be great if there was a pool of money from the revenue stream that is set aside for teams to dump a contract. a once in ten years type limit.
ex. gil would get his money and the magic can walk away from the contract. it would be like half percent of every contract can go into that pool. a bad deal insurance plan.
That would just make teams
More likely to give out crappy contracts.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Hope for an Allan Houston clause
And a hard cap. That immediately makes Orlando competitive post-new CBA, given most of our competitors will have to dump a lot of salary to get under the cap.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
We are right now, yes
But assume we don’t re-sign Richardson and Arenas gets Houston’d, and we’ve “only” got $56m committed next season.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
The Lakers, by comparison
Have $74m committed even if Brown and Barnes decline their player options and the Lakers Houston Bynum’s contract, meaning they’d have to dump over $20m just to get under a (say) $55m hard cap.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I just made this sort of point (in a roundabout way) on another thread.
But it all hinges on letting JRich expire, which absolutely needs to happen.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Feb 22, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Mayo wouldn't
have to be a true PG with Turk on the floor. Mayo would simply guard the other teams PG and with his size and quickness that shouldn’t be a problem. I could see a guy like Williams wanting to come here instead of us having to go after him bc we have dwight and roles players in tact. Paul is apart of that Lebron Melo Dwade Amare click so i could see him putting those guys ahead of dwight even if its clear that orlando is the right chioce. Example Melo says he’s all about winning but picks NY which will be average at best instead of coming here where we would be deep post trade and ready to win.
Gil to me is a wild card type of dude but he is far from dumb. He has never been apart of anything worth getting excited for and after next season he will see that if he doesnt put the team first his career will be over bc know will offer a 32 yr old Arenas the money he can get if he just opts out next summer.
Gil will have 4 years of financila security of this current contract.
I just don’t see him opting out. I will give it 1%, because you never know and Gil is kind of crazy. But 1% might still be too high.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
No way Gilbert Opts out of his contract
Gilbert is a looney toon with money… I read a story not too long ago that he spends like 200 thousand a month on all his sharks in his big shark tank in his home in DC…. This guy buys a new pair of shoes for every ball game…. he has ex-wives with children to feed…
Fact is the way this guy lives he probably needs/wants more money!
by MagicMichael on Feb 22, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Turkoglu can’t run an entire offense by himself. Maybe for a few minutes against backups, but not against starters. He’s a good passer, but he’s no play-caller.
I know you want to believe, but that’s the truth.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
He's taken less money before...
You’ve gotta read this crazy article. It has some great quotes and remarks. It’s about the last contract Gil signed with Washington.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/03/AR2008070304161.html
One thing about his contract that is fascinating to me: He can opt out after next year, but if he chooses not to, he’s owed guaranteed money the following year. So if he DOESN’T choose to relinquish a 20 million dollar year, the Magic will owe him 22M to play the following year. If he does opt out, he loses 44M in favor of whatever else he can get.
I found only one other contract in the league that does this, but on a much smaller scale. Ron Artest can opt out of a 7M year or stay onboard and be guaranteed 7.7M the following year.
Other anomalies include the Miami superfriends, who all have player options 2 years in a row (smart); and to a lesser degree of strangeness (except nobody else is in this situation) Brandon Roy has a 17.8M option one year, and his team has an option on him for 19.2M the next year.
haha wow that is a crazy article and some amazing quotes
Sad thing is I don’t see him taking a dime less of anything having been served child support papers though. What a downward spiral he has been since signing that in the summer of ’08
BTW how eerie is this quote in hindsight: “It just gave me reassurance,” said Arenas, who accepted a six-year, $65 million deal from Pollin in 2003. "He told me: ‘When I picked you up five years ago, you’re my guy and I meant that. You’re the face of the Wizards. When you’re out of the country walking down the street, I know that I have a fine young man representing me, this organization and the city of Washington to the fullest.’
There's a difference between taking less money
For long term financial security, and walking away from $44m.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Can Nene' play PF...
Idk if Nene can play PF. I haven’t really noticed if he has a outside jumper to his game. He is planning to opt out of his contract after this season to test FA. Most likely going to MIA. If Nene can play PF along D12, we should go trade for him knowing that Denver is trying to move him by the deadline. JR Smith is also on the block to be traded. Denver is looking to move both and Harrington. Den will defitnitely see a positive moving atleast 2 of the 3. Otis should pitch the following trade so we can have 2 legit 6’11’’ BIGS up front and we’ll kill the Heat, Celtics and finally match up with Bynum and Gasol. If Otis made the deal, Nene will still probably leave after the season but I think its’s a worth a gamble to win it THIS yr. I mean Lakers have won it with 2 BIGS and a scorer 2 times the past 3 seasons. If he leaves next year well our salary slowing will reduce to set up for 2012 for DWill. CP3 is already looking for his residence in NYC.
Orl gets – Nene, Smith
Den gets – J. Rich, Bass
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4982y84
12 Man Playoff Roster
D12 Murphy (After buyout)
Nene Anderson Clark
Hedo Q
JJ Smith
Arenas Nelson Duhon
Magic already have two PFs.
I don’t see them acquiring a starter, especially one who fits so badly with Howard. Bass is a borderline starter already, and it’s looking like Anderson will be a starter for years to come. They both fit better with Dwight on offense — and Bass doesn’t even fit very well with Dwight.
Bass and sharks are BOTH fish.
He can play PF but it'd shrink the court.
And the Nuggets are trying to sign him to an extension. They’re telling teams not to bother calling about him.
I hope he stays in Denver....
Gr8 news to know they’re talking extention and cutting the lines on the phones. Keep him in the West, especially away from MIA an NY.
It was leaked some site...
Rumour was MIA his #1 choice in FA, just like there was rumour NY was Melo’s #1 choice.
Probably some Miami shill
His family is from Denver, he’s settled there. He’s staying there unless the Nuggets lowball him.
by eltharion_doa on Feb 22, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
Plus...
I don’t see the Nuggets getting rid of their best big man after trading their star player to the Big Apple.
by GameManager on Feb 22, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Here's another quote from Gil:
“That really got me thinking. I mean, this man has given me over $170 million so what’s $16 million now? If he’s put that much belief in me without hesitating, why should I hesitate on what I need to do?”
if he’s nothing else, he’s a straight talker! On the other hand, he probably wishes he had that extra 16 million, now.
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