Deron Williams?
by Daffe1sFlame on Dec 23, 2011 1:13 AM EST
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From everything i have read the consensus is this, "You cannot lose Dwight Howard for nothing!!!!!" (which I vehemently disagree with but thats for another time).
My question to all my fellow magic fans... and you few trolling nets fans (can you guys tone down the trolling just a bit please? So much bluster coming from a franchise that is no more successful than the magic. Have some class!), can the Nets afford to run the risk of losing Deron Williams for nothing?
If the answer to this is no, then what would they be able to get back in a trade? If Lopez and picks is supposedly fair compensation... which its not, then maybe we can respond with Jameer Nelson, Ryan Anderson, Jason Richardson, Daniel Orton and picks in return. Does this sound bad? Not fair compensation? Well neither is the nets offer, and this can possibly be a bit better as they get 3 starters and a young center at least, and jameer is to point guards as Lopez is to centers imo, just older.
The only thing the Nets have better than the Magic is cap space. Well guess how you go about attaining cap space and high draft picks... you are BAD for a long time! Why should the Nets or any other franchise be rewarded with another teams franchise player simply for having sucked long enough to attain the grand prize of cap space? If anyone recalls, Miami was not the only team to shed tons of salary in the hopes of getting Lebron or some other top free agent last year. What got Miami to win that race is not the cap space, it was that they had their own franchise player in Dwyane Wade who was loyal to Miami and recruited. Deron Williams is NOT the Nets franchise player, they rented him and took him from the Jazz and he has no loyalty to NJ. There are only two teams in the league that can take a teams free agents simply because of the market, and those teams are the Knicks and Lakers. No being in brooklyn doesnt count, and no the clippers dont count (Paul only was ok with that as a last resort). Blame Otis or Clevlands GM and others for failing to bring in quality talent to build around their superstars, but we as fans forget that it isnt as easy as it seems. You can only trade for what is available, and whats available is usually only what doesnt want to play with their team or what isnt all that good to begin with. See above for why only a couple teams luck out on the players who dont want to play with their former franchises.
So congrats NJ you won the grand prize of having been terrible for the past 5 years and now think you can trade practically nothing to take our franchise player just because and become a contender. Orlando attained our contender status through hard work and years of developing our own superstar. If we can make Dwight happy then id like to see if we can turn the tables and pry Williams out of NJ instead. I would like to see what he would command in a trade if he outright said he wanted to play in orlando (the other way a D Will D12 pairing can occur).
/End Rant, Sorry just having to read all the rumors and the audacity of some Nets fans to be so jubilant about our dilemma when they could easily suffer the same fate is annoying. Ignoring the fact that Otis Smith is our GM, presume we had a good one, what then would be our chances of turning the tables and getting D will, and what would it take to get him?
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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Rec'd for voicing exactly what I was thinking concerning this whole thing
Besides, if Deron and Dwight truly want to play together, and franchise loyalty doesn’t matter, and money isn’t that big an object, they should both go to Dallas during the offseason. Dallas will have cap space, a waiting Nowitzski, an owner willing to spend crazy money on anything to make the team better, and it is a franchise that has been very successful the past decade
As far as us getting Deron, I just don’t see it unless he makes a demand to come to the Magic (which I doubt he will, but I guess crazier things have happened). Plus after reading a few things about him, he seems like a bit of a prick, so I would rather just have Jameer as our point (then again I tend to be emotionally attached to our players that we develop and/or are Turkish).
If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.
If Otis played the cut throat business-man...
…he’d be on the phone with the Nets as soon as humanly possible. While the shock is still setting in.
Call them up and say:
“Look, your season is lost and your best trade chip is now tainted. It’s really unlikely you put together a trade that I’ll take. I’m going to be building around Howard as well, and can offer him $30+ million more than you in the coming off season — both our teams are a few years away from really Contending, and mine is closer than yours. You can take your chances in the off season, and hope Howard joins a worse squad for less money, risking not getting Howard and D-Will bolting from your franchise for nothing — leaving you with a d-league team and a couple “ok” draft picks. Or you can choose to be proactive.
What will it take to get you to trade D-Will now? Before the possibility of him leaving. Everything is on the able, let’s just open it up for whatever. I can get you a couple solid rotation players, maybe a young talent, and another draft pick down the line. You’ll have a rough year or two, but you’ll have plenty of picks to rebuild with, and a core of NBA-level talent to round out your squad.
What will it take?"
Put everyone on the table other than Howard and just see what comes back. Otis doesn’t have to take it, but it could start a negotiation. From a Nets point of view, they are in the same boat as the Magic are — in fact it’s kind of worse for them. Orlando can’t land a star like NJ can, but all NJ’s eggs are in the basket of landing a huge FA. Orlando at least has some talent surrounding Howard currently, and a half-decent stable of promising young guys.
Now is probably the best chance for the Magic (or any team, really) to go after D-Will. At least try to talk about it. Worst case they simply say there’s no way they move him, and that’s that.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 23, 2011 10:06 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
will be moving to NYC, not because they sucked for the better part of the last decade and have cap space.
If that were the only criterion there would be other doormats also on the table, like the Bucks, Wizards and Bobcats
by WhatAboutFran on Dec 23, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
If NJ didnt have Deron Williams
Do you really think Howard would want to go there? That was my point on how only two markets can do that. It isnt because they are going to brooklyn, its because they have Deron. If Deron bolts would Howard want to still go there or even pretend like they are an option?
by Daffe1sFlame on Dec 24, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
'it isnt as easy as it seems. You can only trade for what is available, and whats available is usually only what doesnt want to play with their team or what isnt all that good to begin with'
This isn’t really true. Gasol & Odom were not necessarily disgruntled or acquired because they were pouting (i’m sure gasol wasn’t happy in memphis, but he had a young playoff team for a few years, and he certainly wasn’t mailing it in demanding a trade). Bynum was acquired via the draft
Same goes for the Spurs—every core member of their both their championship runs was acquired through the draft. And none of their trades were for disgruntled players on other teams. In fact, they would probably avoid such players.
Point being, you can field a championship contender by smart FA signings, trades and draft picks. Which is the exact opposite to what the Magic have done. And thats why they are in the position they are in. Not because of the theory you propose.
Yes Smart FA signings and Draft go a long way
But i was referring to trading for top flight talent. That is much more difficult. As for “smart” FA signings, that also isnt hard, look if a player was sooooo great, meaning super star and not number two type player like gasol and number 3-6 type like bynum and odem, then their original team would be hell bent to keep them unless they became disgruntled like Chris Paul. When we had huge cap space (and wasted on Rashard….) who was truly available? Lewis, i think Ray Allen, and some others? Sounds like tier two to me. Howard/Wade/Paul/Kobe/James/Bosh, all the tier one players dont want to be the long super star with tier two and tier three players around them any more. They want the easy route, and trading for tier one players is VERY difficult.
As for the draft, yeah getting lucky with late round draft picks can help a ton ala the Spurs, but come on dont kid yourself on the idea that its easy to get great talent with picks 20-30 and beyond. Thats even more difficult. The Pistons GM was thought to be a genius when he assembled that championship squad… now is he all of a sudden a moron? NO, he got lucky then and he isnt lucky now. The spurs got lucky and when it all craps out on them they wont get lucky again. People over estimate the greatness of some GMs as being any more than a little bit of diligence and a lot of luck.
So then when it comes to getting Tier 1 free agents, they always want to go to the freaking lakers/knicks/bulls and so on… so yeah its hard to get them too. So yeah your left with those tier two FA’s. So seriously this isnt so easy as you think it is. If it were most teams wouldnt be BLOWING UP their roster and coaching staff every few years practically admitting failure. Also its impossible for everyone to be a champion, so we rank below so many other teams as being the premier destination for superstars. So yes we have to get lucky on assembling a TEAM. Dallas tried that and failed for several years, then they got lucky and succeeded. They werent dumb before and brilliant now, they were more lucky trying different things until finally something worked. If it was so easy then we could just plug in the Spurs GM and win right? …
by Daffe1sFlame on Dec 24, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just for the sake of argument, if we signed Deron as a FA for the midlevel exception, one year contract..
after his deal ends can we sign him to a max contract because we would own his bird rights? This would be a good way to pay Deron what he is worth without needing to clear cap room.
Of course for this to happen Howard would have to sign a multi year deal first and Deron should be willing to give up around 5M in his first year to play in Orlando (Still that is way less of what Lebron gave up for Miami).
I've wondered that too!
but it seems way too easy/shady to do that. It could be legal, but bad business. In theory you could make an all-star team that way as long as the organization/owner was willing and had enough money to pay the overage.
Unless things have changed in the new CBA, you need to spend 3 years with a team to get bird rights.
Please leave a message, I'm busy hiding my cat from TGS.
Perhaps im bitter, or perhaps im hopeful
either way im just trying to get everyone to understand our situation for what it is. A crap shoot. One that can easily infect any team at any time, even the great lakers dealt with it when Kobe requested a trade. None are immune and only few survive it (coincidentally the lakers are one such team and the heat). When it happens others should be more sad than jubilant at the fact that its happening again. How long before Blake Griffin or Eric Gordon or Kevin Durant or Derrick Rose even and any other new young upcoming super stars get tired of not winning it all and want to bolt? Oh but that could never happen right?! Ha it easily could and thats truly terrible for the NBA.
Heat win 6 straight… Bulls never blow it up thus never have true cap space for 2nd and 3rd super star… Rose gets fed up and bolts to bad team with cap space who can sign him, Durant and Gordon or something creating the next super team. Fair? No bad and terrible for the NBA. And this new CBA didnt help it at all….
by Daffe1sFlame on Dec 24, 2011 12:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Magic simply don't have the assets to get it done, if they were able to pry away a lotto pick for next year it might be plausible
The difference that the OP failed to realize is, Deron hasn’t requested a trade, and has put his chances of staying with the Nets at 90%. Deron is all about his money, he was the first NBA player to sign in Europe. He’s not gonna leave all that money sitting on the table by losing his bird rights or leaving in free agency IMO. On the other hand I think Dwight will stay in ORL if the Magic FO calls his bluff and doesn’t trade him. $25 million or whatever it is he would lose by signing elsewhere is A LOT of money to anybody, and I doubt he could make it up in endorsements like Woj has alluded to by signing in a major market. As much as I would like Dwight on the Nets I’m sick and tired of these players holding their franchises hostage. The Nets front office buffoonery has cost them 3 years by trying to hold cap space for superstars. The NBA needs a franchise tag IMO. You simply don’t see this in the NFL, it’s there in the MLB but it’s not as insane because of their lack of salary cap and 1 player can’t dramatically change your team like the NBA.
by William_H_HOLLA on Dec 26, 2011 5:46 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I think the 90% staying with the Nets was a reflection of his optimism that NJ would be landing Howard, I’m sure that’s what Billy King was telling him every day…
Its a new world now that Lopez is hurt, I expect the Nets to be a below 500 team without Brook…
DWill will be disgruntled sooner than later and will probally be a Mav next yea
by Chris3035 on Dec 27, 2011 11:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
We’re all sick and tired of it, William, we’re all sick and tired of it. I personally don’t sympathize with any player that wants out of his contract just on account that he is unlikely to win a championship with his current team. To me, to be a man is worth more than to have a ring. But that is just me, of course.
Considering market size, the fact that the Nets are willing to give Deron personnel input (which the Magic don't give Dwight), and the fact that he hasn't asked for a trade
Is evidence that the Nets chances of retaining Deron are probably much higher than the Magic’s chances of keeping Dwight.
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