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Around SBN: Where Do The Lakers Go From Here?

A Compendium of Otis' Greatest Hits


I'm trying to catalog all of the Magic's misadventures under his tenure. Feel free to correct any mistakes or omissions.

  • Drafting Vasquez over Granger & David Lee. For a team with holes everywhere, passing on a stud like Granger was unforgivable. Especially since he's a deadly 3-point shooter and big enough to play 4. Could have bypassed the entire Lewis-Arenas debacle with this move.
  • Rashard Lewis for 100+ mil. Ultimately, it bit the team in the a$$, as we all knew it would, but it was a fun ride for a couple of years. What irks me, is that no one else was offering anywhere near what Otis paid. And he gave lewis the extra year a via sign and trade with the (then) sonics, in which the sonics got a ~9 mil trade exception. Presti then used the TE to get Kurt Thomas and two first rounds picks from Phoenix. He then flipped Thomas for two expiring contracts and another first round pick from the Spurs. Total haul: 3 first round picks, one of which became Serge Ibaka. Thats how you do it, create a rotation stalwart/possible all-star from nothing (or, in this case, the stupidity of Otis Smith).
  • Trading a first round pick (which became Rodney Stuckey) to run the Darko experiment. Not a bad move at the time--trading a mid first rounder for a big with a lot of talent--but its clear it was an unmitigated disaster, especially when Stuckey blew up against the Magic in the first round of the playoffs as a rookie.
  • Trading for Rafer Alston instead of Kyle Lowry. To be fair, they did ride him to the nba finals and lowry was never much of a shooter. But he was then, and is certainly now, the better player. Since Hedo ran most of the offense anyway, all lowry needed to do was bring the ball upcourt and not turn it over. Also, skip shot awfully during his 29 game stint.
  • Trading Gortat and VC for a one year rental on Jason Richardson & Turk's onerous contract. Lost a prime trade asset *and* got a horrible contract in return.
  • The Duhon signing. This is a guy who was cited for public urination and spurned the magic a few years earlier when he signed with NY instead. Now he's imploding offensive possessions for the Magic.
  • The Q-Rich signing. Nice guy, plays hard but he's also carrying a spare tire around his waist and was 3 years past being effective when Otis signed him.
  • Drafting Daniel Orton. He may not be a bust yet, but for a team in a win-now mode, it didnt make any sense to draft a major project center, when all you need is a stopgap for 10-12 mins a night. There is no scenario in which this move made sense for the Magic. Assuming he turns out to be a talented player, he's never going to develop that talent in Orlando, so you'll lose him in restricted FA when someone gives him crazy money. If he takes a while to develop, you've lost the immediate productivity you could have gotten from a 3-4 yr college player like Landry Fields (although the rest of the draft board below Orton was horrible). If he's a bust, well, thats self-explanatory. You can always try to roll over the pick to another year.
  • Arenas! Bad knees, 100+ mil, threatened to shoot someone, twitter feed, black hole on offense, terribly inefficient even when he was good
  • Trading Bass for Big Baby. No explanation needed.
  • Resigning Richardson. No explanation needed.
  • Waiting to move Dwight. If he says he's only interested in 3 teams, and those are the only ones willing to make serious bids, the offers are unlikely to improve before march. I forsee the Magic moving him in disgrace in late february for a much smaller haul than the 5 first rounders + Lopez + Hedo amnesty they passed on.
  • Trading Trevor Ariza for Mo Evans and Brian Cook. Where to begin. After somehow wrangling Ariza in the Steve Francis trade, Otis goes ahead and moves him for a 3-point shooting big man (except he never shot well in Orlando, his defense was horrendous, and he perpetually looked like he'd been picked from a lineup at the local Y to meet the minimum dressed players requirement). Then there was Mo Evans, a serviceable 2 guard, except thats exactly what ariza was, except he was younger, more athletic and capable of guarding multiple positions. Of course, all this blew up spectacularly when Ariza torched the magic in the finals, in a series where two games were lost in overtime no less.
  • Forgot to add: trading Drew Gooden and Anderson Varejao to cleveland for an aging Tony Battie. Great great locker room presence for a young dwight, but how on earth do you trade two young bigs for an old one? Battie also missed an entire year with a shoulder injury and was never the offensive player gooden was, nor the defensive player varejao became. Update: Weisbrod was calling the shots on this one.
  • And lastly, how could I forget (seriously, I forgot in the original version of this post): The Stevie Franchise pu-pu platter. Though this was many years ago, I remember the Suns dangling a young Amare and picks and Weisbrod and company passing because they also wanted Joe Johnson, or something. So Weisbrod goes after Franchise because (and this is true), he saw Franchise cold-cock Amare when STAT dunked on Yao Ming and then started scowling at him. In that game franchise got ejected for the punch, the suns won in overtime and Amare tore up the stat sheet. And what weisbrod took away is 'I really need a hockey enforcer on my team.'

The last two were under weisbrod's tenure, but I know Otis figured prominently in the decision making as part of the Magic's 'brain trust'

Something that generally bothers me about Otis' deals is his inability to get a team option on the final year of a contract. Instead, he always makes it a player option, and even for mid-tier players like bass.

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

Comment 38 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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To be fair, 29 GMs in the league was kicking themselves for passing on Granger

And the Arenas trade is also forgivable imo. He was the only player at that time with a comparably bad contract to Lewis. He was a great PG before he got injured so it was worth risking Lewis who looked horrible the year after ORL went to the finals. He’s basically Ryan Anderson with a huge contract. You guys already have Ryan Anderson with a regular contract so what’s the point in keeping him around. Everything else I agree with. Shard’s contract has to be one of the worst in NBA history.

by William_H_HOLLA on Dec 20, 2011 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

wha?

Arenas might have been the only player with as bad a contract as Lewis, but there’s no way in the world trading the second worst contract in the NBA for the absolute hands down worst contract in NBA history is “defensible”.

There was no upside. You destroy dressing room chemistry, the team structure and ruin your long term cap for a guy who’d repeatedly proven he lost his game when he lost his knees. Arenas gave nothing to Orlando – Lewis could at least play defense on rangy forwards and hit threes.

(And Anderson, whatever he brings to the table, was and is no Rashard Lewis.)

by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Arenas for Lewis was indefensible for so many reasons

Not least of which is he traded a great locker room presence FOR A GUY WHO BROUGHT A GUN INTO A LOCKER ROOM AND THREATENED TO SHOOT ONE OF HIS TEAMMATES.

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 20, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

There are apparently only 3 teams on his list. Of those, Dallas has nothing to offer outside of a multi-team scenario, which is unlikely. LA is not going to magically acquire more assets than Bynum, Gasol and a few firsts, which they’ve probably already offered. That leaves only NJ.

It is very possible that Dwight starts sulking (he cant even make a firm decision on his future with the team, and apparently wants to walk and be the good guy too), the team begins tanking and the writing on the wall becomes so clear you can see it from space. In that case, there is no reason for NJ to offer more than they have, and lots of reasons for them to reduce their offer.

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 20, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Nets can't trade for Dwight, they risk him not signing in the offseason and/or losing Deron, too.

Nets have plenty of reasons to increase their offer (tho not many ways to do it).

Can we just start playing games on the court already?!

by EnnBee on Dec 20, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

This is all well and good

except it ignores the fact that dwight has very few teams that he would seriously consider if he hits the unrestricted FA next year. From all accounts, his demands include:

1) a big market
2) a chance to win titles immediately
3) warm weather (apparently this excludes Chicago, but not NJ. Go figure, Dwight logic)

that leaves a very small swath of teams. These (Lakers, Clips, Mavs, NJ) teams would also have to create the cap space to sign him outright, which is no small task given the new CBA. The lakers would have to gut their team of bynum and gasol, and does anyone really think that without those two or odom, and just dwight and an aging kobe, the lakers get to the finals in the west, much less win? The clips blew their cap space on jordon and CP3 invoking his option next year. The Mavs are an aging team with lots of expensive (though not cap killing) contracts. They could maneuver to sign him outright, but would he want to, when he could be playing in NYC, in a brand new arena, with an all-nba PG?

Of course, a sign and trade may be possible fr any of those teams if they cant get under the cap (I believe, not sure how the new cba deals with it).

But NJ will have no trouble being under the cap and signing him without shelling out any compensation to orlando. The Nets have the upper hand in this game. Its only a question of how long it will take Otis to figure it out. I

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 20, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

In the game of D12 you win or you draft high.

(/sigh I’m such a nerd)

RAWR! (╯°□°)╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ

by aTasteLikeBurning on Dec 20, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Game of Thrones ♥♥♥♥♥

Fetch me a crocodile sandwich and make it snappy!

by TheGiantSquid on Dec 21, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Lakers have NOT put Gasol + Bynum on the table

Bynum + picks/deals/bit parts is on the table, but Gasol is not. So far.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

and certainly not Bynum/Gasol and 'a few firsts'

I think if the Lakers had offered up Bynum/Gasol straight up already, we’d have already pulled the trigger.

Yugly.

by aakks on Dec 21, 2011 6:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm hoping they will...

If we can trade Dwight for Bynum/Gasol; and somehow turn any combination of Anderson, JJ, JRich, or Jameer into Monte Ellis. I think that’s a potential title contender, and wouldn’t it be poetic justice if the Magic won a title this season w/o Dwight.

"

by TheOtherWhiteMeat on Dec 21, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Where would these picks be coming from?

I don’t believe that any of Dwight’s preferred destination teams have or will have high picks in next years draft (especially if they get Dwight). However, if the Magic wanted to, they could probably turn some of that “fools gold” into high draft picks at the end of the season (if things didn’t work out). Also, I would hope Turk would be going to LA in the trade for Dwight, so I guess it would only be Von Wafer. Since, you’re right, all of our other players would Magically disappear if this trade were to happen.

"

by TheOtherWhiteMeat on Dec 21, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Apology accepted...

You’re right Von Wafer is the best player on the team outside of Dwight. Sorry for being a snarky d*ck, but our team isn’t that bad. I know it sucks that Dwight wants to leave and probably will, but I’m resigned to that fact. Personally, I’d rather watch Bynam/Gasol and (if we can get him) Monta Ellis this (shorten) season than Lopez and what ever other expiring contract/vet minimum crap we can get. Then, in the summer, if things don’t work out, blow it all up, trade everyone with value for picks and rebuild.

"

by TheOtherWhiteMeat on Dec 21, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Picks come from trades

You get Gasol and Bynum, then flip them in multi party deals to third and fourth teams for draft picks. If the Nets could get together four picks to trade for Wallace, the Lakers/Rockets/whoever can put together 3 or 4 picks in a different deal.

It’s a deep draft, and the Magic will stink without Howard – definitely a lottery team. Throw in maybe another lottery pick, a non-lottery 1st rounder or two and suddenly you have a lot of tickets in the draw for the next big thing. Plus if you’re really rebuilding, you move guys like Redick, J-Rich and Nelson to contenders for more picks. Take on shitty big short term contracts, get salary space, overpay crap guys for a season to hit the floor – whatever you need to do.

If Howard goes, the Magic are rebuilding. They need to do it properly – like 15-67 properly. Get those top lottery picks, turn them into talent. And put the right pieces around them this time. (ie fire Otis).

by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The only way acquiring bynum and gasol makes sense

is if you can flip them for picks and other young players. Orlando’s not going anywhere with those two.

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 21, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

But that assumes that Otis is functionally capable enough to make additional moves

to convert those players into picks. Its like poker. The best players have a statistical advantage against the lambs. But that advantage only appears over hundreds and hundreds of hands. So they keep pressing their advantage by forcing poorer players into pots where they have to make decisions. It doesnt really matter what the odds are, what the cards are at any given point, just that poorer players have to make decisions—because if they are doing that, over time, they’re gonna lose.

In this analogy, Otis Smith is the meat, and the rest of the 29 gms are the wolves. So even if he were to get Gasol and Bynum, whats to say he doesnt trade Gasol for gerald wallace and a flyer on odom’s knees.

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 21, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Excuse my ignorance...

but is there an advantage to flipping them immediately, rather than at the end of the season. I guess the obvious is if Bynum were to get injured. But, if your trading them for picks and young players, I would still think they’d retain their value in that situation if you waited until the end of the season. I say let it ride and see what happens. But, I do agree with you on the point that Otis is probably not functionally capable of making smart moves.

"

by TheOtherWhiteMeat on Dec 21, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

The biggest problem with keeping them

Is that it’d be a decent, but not great team, which means no high lottery pick.

The absolutely last thing the Magic want to do is go 33-33 this season and make the playoffs, then have to blow up the roster without a high lottery pick.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair...

When it comes to draft pick speculation (i.e. when teams choose future top players with our draft picks), like in the case of Rodney Stuckey, it really is a multi-variable situation. Had we had the pick, would the Magic have drafted Stuckey? It really could have gone anywhere, as teams normally draft to their needs.

Basketball Lover & English Major

by Reediculous on Dec 21, 2011 9:30 AM EST reply actions  

Majority of your points I don't have issue with except I think you're being a tad unfair on these few

Point 3: Darko/Stuckey – As you said Otis took a flyer on a coveted 7-footer with potential, and Darko actually wasn’t that bad for the Magic (well, he wasn’t atrocious anyway). Mid-round picks are typically crapshoots and Darko was still young enough at that time that he still would have been a conceivable high pick himself. It was a potential twin tower lineup of Dwight and Darko, and it was worth the gamble in my opinion. (I do agree though that it sucks that it was Stuckey who killed us in the playoffs, but that is just Magic’s karma from the Anthony Bowie triple double against the Pistons over a decade ago). At the time, Otis traded Kelvin Cato and vapor (1st round pick) for Darko and Carlos Arroyo. It was actually a decent trade.

Point 4: Alston/Lowry – Maybe Lowry wasn’t even available to the Magic at the time (Grizzlies received a decent draft pick from Houston in that deal that the Magic didn’t have to offer) and was the price Houston insisted on from Memphis for trading Alston to the Magic. Also, Alston got us to the Finals as you said AND he was a trade chip that helped netted us Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson later. No way Lowry would have led us to the Finals at that time. If anything, I would say that trade was an almost complete success. There was even an Otis love train going on here for a while from those moves.

Last point: Battie/Varejo – I think John Weisbrod actually made that trade, but I’m not sure.

Again, your other points I tend to agree with (with the exception of me actually liking the Bass/Davis trade, but I understand why you and others might not like it), but let’s be fair here. He sucks, but it wasn’t like every move he made was crap.

If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.

by funny80sguy on Dec 21, 2011 11:10 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

One quick note on Darko's situation ... the trade was good - considering Cato turning into a locker room cancer - but what transpired afterwards was foolish.

Darko was really a kid and needed "coaching" in all senses especially after how badly he was handled in Detroit. He had found a home in Orlando, but somebody needed to get in Brian Hill’s empty head to play him instead of his favorite, Pat Garrity, which he was touting as "the most fundamentally sound defensive player". The game in SA comes to mind whereby the twin towers were dominant, and we won a great battle against SA’s front-line. Then the free agency comes around, and Otis Smith – probably Hill being a culprit too – wanted Darko to establish his value in "open market", an idea which, thereafter, has been applied only by choice (i.e., not applied to Jameer but to Barnes). The kid was insulted and devastated, and never recovered from that shock. A fatherly approach – I wish SVG was here back then – would have made a huge difference, in my view. What a waste!

by Matt1325 on Dec 21, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Houston didnt receive a first in that trade...

memphis did, and it was orlando’s first round pick.

Memphis receives: Orlando’s First Round Pick + Mike Wilks (aah the mike wilks era) + Foyle + Cash (from orlando)

Houston receives: Lowry + Brian Cook

Orlando receives: Alston

Orlando could have just traded for lowry instead of alston, and (as the stats from alston’s stint attest), lowry would have outperformed him, and likely not gotten into a fight with eddie house that got him suspended in game 3—though the magic did thoroughly dismantle the celts without him (or perhaps because of it).

It is true that alston was integral as trade bait for VC and Anderson.

Its true that hockey puck traded for battie. Amended post.

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 21, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, my mistake on the first rd pick

So you are correct that Magic could have definitely had Lowry (and we would have even kept Brian Cook!), but even with 20/20 hindsight, I think I would still take that Alston trade. There were other tangibles here: Alston played for SVG before, so he was able to jump right into the starting lineup (it seems like it takes players a while to get used to SVG’s play schemes, and we didn’t have the time for Lowry to get up to snuff) and that was a huge plus. Also, Alston was a seasoned vet while Lowry was still young.

Still, I see your point; it would probably would have benefitted the Magic more for the future if we got Lowry. I wouldn’t call the Alston trade a bust though; it was a borderline brilliant midseason trade in my opinion because when you have a chance for the title, you go all in.

If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.

by funny80sguy on Dec 21, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

on face value, trading for a young, talented 7 footer for a mid first rounder is sound.
But as others have alluded to, losing him soon thereafter was foolish. Its possible he would have gotten more burn with SVG, but its also possible SVG would have tired of him after he began pouting. Also, darko had no future in orlando as anything other than dwight’s backup. Dwight was always going to mature into the center position. Then what? Lose him to FA, a sign and trade? What was the plan in acquiring him in the first place, b/c twin towers isnt going to work unless one can space the floor for the other.

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 21, 2011 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

If you can turn a big into a solid player

They always have trade value.

See: Marcin Gortat.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

This is not, strictly, true

If you have the playing time (not behind dwight) and coaching (unlikely under SVG since he has yet to develop many rooks and seems to tire of complainers) its worth a shot. But I would argue the magic had neither, so they were unlikely to realize that potential (not that he had it anyway). Also, Gortat was different, he was a 2nd round pick, not a mid first rounder.

by WhatAboutFran on Dec 21, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see the difference

If Gortat could develop despite only backing up Dwight, why could Milicic have done the same? Darko’s arguably a better talent, too.

Young players van Gundy has developed – Ryan Anderson, JJ Redick, Marcin Gortat, Courtney Lee. Whenever he’s given talent, he uses it.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

generally agree

except for ariza, whom he mostly planted on the bench, despite huge flashes of talent

by Half-man Half-gortat on Dec 29, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions  

don't forget ...

hiring billy donovan before SVG

attempting to give duhon THE FULL MLE before he mercifully rejected us for the knicks

attempting to give adonal foyle THE FULL MLE before he mercifully rejected us for the warriors

trading locker room cancer, wall development inhibitor and one year more expensive arenas to the wizards for locker room prince and one year less expensive lewis without exploiting this leverage and demanding extra compensation in the form of young talent or picks

letting matt barnes walk only to sign a far less effective q-rich for more money than barnes ultimately took

trading gortat in a transaction that the suns would almost certainly have done without gortat in order to dump turkoglu’s contract, and for some unknown reason including a first round pick…. made all the worse when gamechanger forward gerald wallace gets traded later in the season for joel pryzbilla.. pryzbilla!

by Half-man Half-gortat on Dec 29, 2011 2:52 AM EST reply actions  

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