Miami Heat 118, Orlando Magic 85
The Miami Heat ended the Orlando Magic's 21-game preseason winning streak Sunday night, 118-85, as six Heat players scored in double-figures. LeBron James put up 19 points in just 26 minutes to lead Miami. J.J. Redick and Ryan Anderson scored 22 points apiece off the Magic's bench. Orlando shot just 35.4 percent from the field, while the Heat sank 58.7 percent of their shots and held a 42-31 advantage on the glass.
Sunday's game was the first of two preseason meetings between the Southeast Division rivals. Though the Magic kept the game close early--trailin gby just nine at halftime--the Heat pulled away in the third quarter, limiting the Magic to 15 points while scoring 29 themselves to pull away.
Newcomer Glen Davis tallied six points and five boards in 32 minutes for Orlando. Jameer Nelson led the Magic with seven assists, but shot 0-of-10 from the field.
Orlando rookies Justin Harper and DeAndre Liggins did not play. Von Wafer, who arrived with Davis via trade with the Boston Celtics earlier in the week, scored four points in 13 reserve minutes.
Prior to Sunday's loss, Orlando's last preseason defeat came on October 8th, 2007.
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good job of getting Howard the ball early in the shot clock
"Generally, when I draw the play, it's just who's going where. Maybe I have not made it clear enough that we would like the ball to go in the basket."
by AB's triple double on Dec 18, 2011 9:50 PM EST reply actions
Other than Turkoglu, the starters did not play well at all
Hedo had a very efficient stat line of 5 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists in just 13 minutes.
The other four starters combined to shoot 9 of 39 (23.1%) from the field, including 1 for 12 (8.3%) on threes, and 4 of 8 (50%) on free throws for 23 points, and they played between 30 and 32 minutes each.
Looking forward to a much better effort against Miami in Orlando.
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC North Champion
Orlando Magic... 1995 and 2009 Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 18, 2011 11:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Newly acquired Davis had a +/- of -22!
Does Turk have such a big impact on the team and nobody else knows the play once he left?
I hope Stan will let the rookies play in these pre-season games (and Orton).
Bill Simmons on Davis:
Orlando dealt Brandon Bass to Boston for Glen “Big Baby” Davis, then gave Davis $26 million over four years. I’m actually glad this happened because it allowed me to have the following exchange with my dad.
Dad: “I’ve always liked Brandon Bass!”
Me: “I know!”
Dad: “Big Baby was our worst player after we traded Perkins, he absolutely killed us!”
Me: “I know!”
Dad: “He couldn’t do anything. He lost the ability to play basketball!”
Me: “I know!”
Dad: “And now we’re paying Bass less money for less years when he’s a better player!”
Me: “I know!”
Dad: “I’m really glad Otis Smith is still in the league!”
Me: “I know!”
BIG THUMBS UP OTIS
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Bass's performance from his first preseason game with the Celtics
Against Toronto on Sunday, in 25 minutes, Bass had a respectable stat line of 9 points off the bench on 4 of 9 shooting, along with 5 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 1 assist, and 0 turnovers.
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC North Champion
Orlando Magic... 1995 and 2009 Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 19, 2011 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
How about a little context. Bass was playing against Toronto's world famous frontline of Amir Johnson and Ed Davis.
Big Baby was playing against Chris Bosh and Udonis Haslem and the Eastern Conference Champions.
and Bass was also playing against the second unit of a team that went 22-60 last season.
…remember Bass was decent on offense as long as he didn’t have to move or pass. But on defense he got eviscerated nightly by opposing 4’s. That is why we traded him – to help Dwight from getting beat up nightly and to help him on defense.
by MagicLA on Dec 19, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
also
we got Von Wafer in that deal..that dude can ball
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
Right... thanks for bringing that up
Miami’s frontline was a much stiffer test for Davis than Toronto’s frontline for Bass.
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC North Champion
Orlando Magic... 1995 and 2009 Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 19, 2011 4:33 AM EST up reply actions
I'll believe Davis can still play D when I see it
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 4:57 AM EST up reply actions
I only watched the first half last night
And while he definitely got in the wrong places at times (new system and all and no worse than Bass’ first game for the Magic) he looked to play solid individual defense to me.
Can we just start playing games on the court already?!
Not sure "solid individual D"
Is worth $6.5m a season.
That’s elite, shutdown D money if that’s the only thing you bring to the table.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
When two bench players have over 50% of your points.
It never ends well. And yes, I realize Ryan Anderson is not technically a bench guy. But he was today. Also has Dwight decided to mail it in until he’s traded? 5 points, really? C’Mon Man.
Watched Howards post game interview on OS
and he makes statements like "I told my guys", "Don’t Panic", "We are a Family", "It’s just the 1st game in 7 months" , "We could win 20 games out the gate", and "Our goal is to still win a championship". Hard to take that seriously when he’s demanded a trade and hasn’t recanted it.
He's right, though
Orlando’s a system team, not a talent team. You don’t learn a system in two weeks – LeBron James could probably spend a year doing nothing but practicing and still drop 25 in a half.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The "Family" line is from Davis.
I saw an interview with Davis after he first got to Orlando and they were asking what he was bringing to the team and he kept saying “family” over and over.
“This team is a family.”
“This team is my family now.”
“We are family.”
“We will always have each other’s back, because we’re family.”
He specifically said that the “family” mantra/attitude is something he was going to bring to Orlando, to help the team work better as a cohesive unit.
It’s really interesting to see it already cropping up…
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 19, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
we were looking okay before Turk left
then Miami went on a run and then the half came and then we collapsed in the third…
But those first 2 quarters weren’t half bad! :D?
Fetch me a crocodile sandwich and make it snappy!
When the shots are falling everything looks ok.
But truthfully the only thing that made the 1st half look close was the three’s. But the offense did not look good early on and degraded as the game went on. The ball was moving around the perimeter decently but not inside out except for a few drive and kick possessions .
Plus I think every shot Dwight took was 10 feet out…against frkn Joel Anthony. Looked to me like he was just mailing it in. I didn’t see deep post positioning by him on hardly any possessions. Sure sign of detachment.
It could also be that Dwight was using a preseason game to practice his improved jumper in game situations
Can we just start playing games on the court already?!
I missed everything after early-2nd quarter...
…so what I saw looked pretty good, although a bit rough.
I just saw the play Turk went down on. I’m surprised that was just a normal foul — clearly a sloppy and unsafe play by Bosh. He wasn’t even trying to defend, he just tried to move out of the way by ducking…something they teach you never to do because of the potential to hurt someone exactly that way. I recall when Asik of the Bulls hurt Bosh’s ankle diving at a loose ball, and Bosh’s whining about how players shouldn’t do stuff like that because it could cause injuries. What a little Bosh.
I do have to say though, it was awesome seeing Turk take it into the lane. I hope this event doesn’t keep him from being willing to do that more. His money is made by being a versitile threat, and him actually being willing to take some contact like that (well, not exactly like that) could really help the Magic on the offensive end. I also saw J-Rich willing to take a bit more contact…also a good sign. Upping the FTAs would be a welcome sight.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 19, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Definitely a good move (and decent game to that point) from Turk
In Bosh’s defense (never thought I’d write that), it did look like he was knocked off balance trying to come around Howard’s screen and was simply losing balance and out of control. Perhaps he continued it farther than he needed to (though not obviously so), but it just looked like a freak collision in the replay to me.
Can we just start playing games on the court already?!
Speaking of that incident...has anyone heard an update on Turk's injury?
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 19, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
They said a bruise and would reevaluate on Tuesday.
Can we just start playing games on the court already?!
Big Baby sure came to impress on his first game in pinstripes didn't he!?!?
And the award for most consecutive poor trades goes to….OTIS SMITH!
It’s just preseason. Give him some time and relax! It’s like you want the trade to look bad… We will see whether it was a good trade or not, but I don’t think one can judge it right now..
by Robin from Germany on Dec 19, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
The trade looks bad
because Orlando’s paying more for a similarish player who doesn’t add anything that Orlando needed, not because Davis didn’t have a breakout pre-season game.
Weoejuwejhdjwe!
Twitter
by Chekhov's Spread Gun Option on Dec 19, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
Wouldn't exactly call 6-9 290 lbs - smallish
Especially if he’s playing in his natural position at power forward.
BBD is not a center, in fact Boston fans loved him until after the Perkins trade when he was asked to play center a lot. You can’t really criticize a player for not performing great when being played out of position.
Yeah, complaining about Davis now is so short sighted.
I’m curious if we’ll see Orton in the next Pre-Season game…limit the amount of time Davis has at the 5.
He looked a bit thinner than he did in Boston, which I thought would quell some of the fears about his weight. He still had quick feet and some great body control. Maybe the focus shoudn’t be soley on the fact that he didn’t completely learn SVG’s defense is 6 days, and more on the fundementals?
Also…it’d be nice if I didn’t see a single post complaining about his lack of big offensive #s when a) He scored more than Howard and b) Meer went 0-10.
He wasn’t great, but some context on these threads would be wonderful.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 19, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's 2 inches taller than Bass and more mobile with a wider base to hold his ground
Not similarish it all in my mind.
Can we just start playing games on the court already?!
did you not get the memo?
He isnt 290 anymore.. He’s Brandon Bass size now
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Are you saying Davis lost 40 lbs?
uhm Bass is 6-8 (on a good day) and 250…Davis was 6-9 and 290
you might want to reconsider the source of your memo’s because looking leaner and dropping nearly a quarter of your total body mass are just a tad bit different.
Every player who's left the celts for more money
in recent times has not played as well as they did with the team. With the exception of Tony Allen. The celtics system and veteran players can make others look better than they actually are. But D12 must have liked Davis because of the way he played him on defense just like Kobe requested Matt Barnes and Artest.
This game reaffirms my belief
that we need a new starting PG..Jameer cannot distribute the ball to Dwight well.. he would be the perfect 6th man (a la Jason Terry), but he just can’t cut it as the starting PG for this team if we want Dwight to improve and be happy. I really think Jameer is also butt hurt from hearing how Dwight wanted Arenas back (especially because Arenas could deliver the ball to Dwight better than Nelson), and the CP3 signs in Orlando. Hopefully we can swing a deal for Monta Ellis or Devin Harris (Utah might be interested in Jameer since his contract is shorter and Harris is probably not in their future plans).
Glen Davis did not impress that much at all..hopefully it is due to not being familiar with our system yet
I was glad to see Redick and Anderson ball it up..and Turk was playing efficiently before getting hurt…J Rich looked good too in the beginning offensively
However, I’m not panicking too much from this game considering the Heat are the best team in the NBA and have better chemistry. But I do think it would be great if we could get Harris or Ellis somehow..Harris would probably be more reailstic
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 2:39 AM EST reply actions
o wait nm
Jameer and Harris both have the same amount of years left..maybe if we package someone else with Nelson they might bite
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
Neither Ellis nor Harris are significant playmaking upgrades over Nelson
Harris is a much better creator than Ellis, who puts the ball hog in shoot first, but even Harris is only about as good as Nelson.
Ellis does other things, of course, but he’s not going to be an elite – or even solid – playmaker for Howard.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 5:02 AM EST up reply actions
Andre Miller in Denver would be a good swap for Jameer.
Puts Neslon coming off the bench behind Ty Lawson—ala a 6th man role. Orlando gets a experiences up expiring-contract vet. Makes sense, so probably never happens.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 19, 2011 6:11 AM EST up reply actions
*experienced, but expiring
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 19, 2011 6:12 AM EST up reply actions
haha you said it
We needed Baron Davis or Billups
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
i wish the magic could get a better backup pg
it would be cool if they could get eric maynor from okc
by turbo champion on Dec 19, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Harris can penetrate
better than Jameer…thus setting up more wide open 3s..and he is a better player than Jameer
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Arguable
I’ve not seen anything from him that indicates he’s going to consistently outperform Nelson. He’s better in some areas, worse in others.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think
Jameer is a better shooter but that’s it. Harris is faster, a better defender, can penetrate better, and is a better passer. He also stepped his game up by being able to shoot the 3. He would be a big upgrade over Jameer in my opinion
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
If we could keep Jameer as our 6th man that would be dope
and trade like Redick and some of our yuong players for Harris
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he's a particularly better passer
He gets assists at about the same rate as Nelson, despite not “losing” assists to Howard’s slow post moves (a relatively large proportion of Orlando’s baskets are unassisted because Dwight takes the most shots in the block).
I’’ll give you faster, a better defender and maybe bigger, though not especially, but overall they’re pretty similar. And, given the original point was that Harris was somehow going to be better at getting the ball to Dwight than Nelson is – I’m sorry, I’ve seen nothing in Harris’ career that indicates that would be true.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
i just feel like he would be an upgrade over Jameer especially since he is butthurt after all the drama surrounding ORL needing a new PG..but yea passing wise maybe he isnt a lot better..but i still think hes a better passer
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Nelson shoots better from 3pt, but thats really the only area he is better at. Go check the stats. Plus Harris is 6’3", compared to Nelson who is generously listed at 6’.
i agree
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Thabeet is like 7' or 7'1" and Dwight is "generously" listed at 6'10" or 6'11"
So whats your point?
Sorry, just tired of hearing the “Jameer is short so he isn’t good” excuse. Everything else? Fair game. Just not that.
by JeffShann3 on Dec 20, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Harris has never done anything in his career to show he's better than Nelson
Same shooting %, same assist rate, same turnover rate, significantly worse rebound rate.
All he is is taller and quicker. Otherwise, he’s Jameer Nelson with a higher usage rate. He’s a step sideways at best.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As I've said before
Nothing has convinced me that Harris or Mo Williams are better than Jameer. They’re just taller.
If we’re seriously considering PG’s then we should be looking at someone who offers us a completely different style of play rather than suggesting other score first guards. That or legitimately promising rookies.
Im ok with disagreeing with everyone
I see Nelson as just an average PG, while I see Harris as an above average PG…. No one’s claiming him to be a superstar…. just better than Nelson.
p.s. in the NBA, a few inches is a big deal. With so much talent and athleticism in the league, a few inches can be the difference between getting a steal, getting a block, getting your shot off, great entry passing, etc..
Please do not simply dismiss it.
Harris has those inches
And does none of those things better than Nelson.
He could be 7" tall but if he doesn’t use it to produce more, it’s irrelevant. His production is, and has been over his career, about the same as Nelson’s. They’re both borderline All Stars at their absolute best, and decent without being great the rest of the time.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
"Harris has those inches"
heh heh heh
Fetch me a crocodile sandwich and make it snappy!
by TheGiantSquid on Dec 20, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
*experienced, but expiring-
Sheesh. I’m fighting a fever.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
as you can tell from the continued reply fail.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 19, 2011 6:12 AM EST up reply actions
*pet pet*
Fetch me a crocodile sandwich and make it snappy!
by TheGiantSquid on Dec 19, 2011 6:42 AM EST up reply actions
You can have my chicken and stars
(i hate them)
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Gee, thanks.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 19, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Someone's gotta eat them
they’ve been sittin in my pantry for like 5 years
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Boston fan here
I think what you can reasonably expect from Big Baby is solid defense at the post. With his size, it’s pretty hard to move him around and let other guys establish easy and comfortable position. Also, I expect his rebounding to be better since he’s playing as a starter, and all the shots altered by Dwight, he’ll be able to rebound them since he has the size and tools to box out really well.
However, his offense isn’t really his bread and butter. Bass can definitely shoot better from outside (though Baby has stretches where he’s consistent enough to be a real threat out there), but Baby is nimble with his feet and can go for nifty layups (as long as he positions himself well not to get blocked). He also has the strength to absorb contact and get to the free throw line well, and he definitely plays bigger than his size. (Look at game 4 of the 2010 finals how he matched up with the Lakers front court)
Thanks for your input.
Players don’t rebound better playing alongside Dwight.
I wouldn't have any issue with Davis at $3m a year
What we’re paying is a pretty steep price for solid post defense when he’s got the best defender in the world behind him.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Can you give an example of who and where you find that $3 million PF/C?
by MagicLA on Dec 19, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Glen Davis 2009-10 $3m
Glen Davis 2010-2011 $3.3m
I wouldn’t have any issue with Davis at $3.6 for 2011-2012, or even $4.
They wouldn't have gotten Davis for $3.6, or $4.
And the Magic likely wouldn’t have been able to resign Bass for that amount of money, either.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 20, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They didn't need to re-sign him
They already had him at that amount of money.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
Then let him go.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 20, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
If Howard is traded or leaves in FA
Keeping Bass or not makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to the team. And if Howard stayed, we could pay Bass because we’d have his Bird rights.
Signing Davis to a big contract for the long term is an utterly stupid basketball and business decision. Keeping Bass – a better player for less – and seeing what happened would have been far better.
Or even trading Bass for someone actually good.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I trust Stan Van Gundy's opinion
Stan Van Gundy on Glen Davis:
" I think clearly a great deal of toughness. Secondly (and I think this is huge) a guy who will help the other players play better at both ends of the floor. I think he does it a couple of different ways:
Number one, on the defensive end he’s very smart; he’s ahead of the play, he’s a very good team defender; and he’s constantly talking – which helps everybody else.
On offense, he really knows how to play the game; he moves the ball; and he is a great great screener. He really thrives on (even his own game comes from) forcing defenses to do things because of his screens and then he gets open.
So, I think the two main reasons why we wanted him here where great toughness and that he helps his teammates play better. "
by MagicLA on Dec 20, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Individual stats aside
I believe Davis will have a bigger impact on the Magic than Bass will have on the Celtics. Therefore it wasn’t a bad trade…. and Davis may still put up better numbers.
by Justin85 on Dec 20, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it was a good move for both teams
Let’s say their stats are a wash, but I acknowledge that Bass’ are slightly better. I think Glen’s vocal leadership is a great thing for the Magic right now and could strive other players on the team to play harder and more cohesive.
Bass was quiet and rarely spoke up which I think works great for the Celtics because they already have a vocal leader in Kevin Garnett.
If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.
by funny80sguy on Dec 21, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I trust Stan van Gundy's opinion as well
But he’s hardly going to come out and say “Davis is a solid player but he’s not as good as Bass and we’re paying him twice as much as we should be for twice as long as we should be”, is he?
by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd. We need to remember that we are paying more than 60% extra and two additional years on a deal that is lateral - at best - on a team that most probably would be in re-building mode.
No matter how one cuts it, Bass was good enough to win the starting role over a player as good as Anderson … he is a better shooter and dunker and has shown that his body can take 35-40 minutes of playing time per game.
In Dwight’s departure, Davis would be another contract which is gonna be hung around our neck unless somebody could sufficiently argue that he is an important piece in re-building. Naught.
You are contextualizing the trade without including some very important facts into the equation.
Next summer, Brandon Bass has a player option and Ryan Anderson will be a restricted free agent next summer. Meaning that it is very likely we lose both to free agency.
• Bass (26) is a solid big on a good team and will be in his prime through his next contract – he will surely opt out knowing he will get a better offer than $4M.
• Anderson (23) is a near 7’ sharpshooter on a rookie scale contract; he will for certain get large offers.
Next summer the Magic will have to sign new contracts for the (1) starting PF and the (2) back up PF position; and since Bass has been playing (3) back up C you also have to sign a new contract for that role. All this is before you even factor in the very likely loss of the starting C position.
Glen Davis fills two of those needs at a very reasonable $6.5M. He is secured through his prime at this price. And most importantly, he provides leverage and insurance for next summer’s impending free agency negotiations with Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson.
by MagicLA on Dec 21, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are making it more complaicated than it should be. If Dwight leaves, we would be filling positions with the cheapest players we could get on the shortest terms possible.
We would certainly retain Anderson – as a young proven commodity – but may have a fire sale on everybody else. Additionally, in Davis’ condition, if he can play two positions, starting one and backing up another (potentially 35-40 minutes per game) I would cry out “miracle”.
I disagree on Anderson.
Without a dominant post presence, Anderson’s game suffers greatly and won’t be worth the contract he will surely get offered from teams looking for a complementary player.
Davis is a good 3d big – for the most part those guys get paid in the $6 million a year range unless they are on their first contract and if so those players are rarely traded.
Who's going to watch that team, though?
I’m all for rebuilding if Dwight leaves, but the Magic is a business and you do still have to fill the seats. You can’t just have a team of the “cheapest players.” Bass is a good player, but Bass isn’t going to put butts in seats. Davis is actually somewhat fun to watch. I’m really not interested in paying to see Heart and Hustle 2. To be honest Heart and Hustle was pretty crappy, no need to make a sequel.
"
by TheOtherWhiteMeat on Dec 21, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fans watch their teams although the number may decrease in short-term ... who was watching CLE after LeBron left?
The team needs to get really bad to have better chances at draft lotteries, as well as shed salary for better FA signings. The alternative would be to remain mediocre for years.
You have to hit the salary floor anyway
But the Magic brass are smart enough to eat a season of poor ticket sales to build a long term future for the team, I hope.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
nope...it does not count towards any cap ceiling or floor.
But that’s not really that big of an issue with 13 minimum players.
can you find that in the CBA?
word was the amnestied players will count toward the minimum salary floor but not the cap or tax
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 21, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
I looked for that but couldn’t find any language that specifically addressed it, except that an amnestied contract becomes entirely disconnected from cap regulations. So I understood that to infer it becomes a franchise expense entirely unrelated to payroll.
But that is only my guess, so I could be totally wrong.
Right now we are relying on the "tentative" CBA document. Is the full CBA document published yet?
What we know for sure from the tentative document is that the amnestied salary is removed “for cap and tax purposes”. There is no clarification with regard to the “salary floor”, but from a logical standpoint, this is an expenditure which the teams carry and if it is not counted towards the floor, it would constitute a double-penalty. I cannot imagine the owners agreeing to double-penalty.
I, however, cannot wait to get my hands on the full CBA document.
Double-penalty argument makes sense
It would adversely effect player movement, which was a big issue to the blue collar level players who held the majority vote.
But I can see that having been one of their concessions since owners conceded at the other end of the cap spectrum.
Reading the whole thing would be an epic achievement
I’m looking forward to Larry Coon updating his FAQ with the relevant bits…
by eltharion_doa on Dec 22, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I would never read a long legal document in its entirety, but rather glance through pausing on sections of interest.
I think I have seen an abbreviated write-up from Larry Coon comparing and contrasting the old and new CBA. I would post the link if I come around to it.
Amnestied players do count towards the floor.
(tho I am a fan of the Davis trade)
Can we just start playing games on the court already?!
Oh, I know
I guess my point is that you can’t just sign 13 minimum salary guys or anything. I guess you could have a team of the “cheapest players” if their total salaries were still $30m or so.
Not that I’d advise it…
by eltharion_doa on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 AM EST up reply actions
Understood.
My point is to keep the salaries to the minimum with:
a) young building blocks; and
b) expiring or moveable contracts
so that we would be cap-flexible when we need it.
Definitely
If we’re rebuilding, we should be stacking our roster with first rounders. They’ll learn, they won’t win many games, they should have plenty of upside, and they’ll be pretty cheap. And you never know when you’ll find a breakout player.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 22, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Jameer Jameer Jameer...
Dwight really looked disinterested to me. I’ll chalk that up to the first preseason game for now.
Yugly.
Something I haven't heard mentioned yet....
The Clippers have 5 PG’s on their roster: Paul, Billups, Eric Bledsoe, Mo Williams, Willie Warren… 6 if you count Randy Foye who’s more of a combo guard.
Paul isn’t going anywhere. Bledsoe is a good young player who should back up Paul. Billups and Foye will probably share the SG duties because they literally don’t have any one else to do so.
That leaves the veteran Mo Williams, and the good young prospect Willie Warren as possible trade bait. Either one of them should be better than Duhon as a bench option, and could push Nelson for starters minutes.
Maybe if we give them some wing players (Wafer or Q + Hughes) to fill out their roster and a 2nd round pick, we could pry one of them away.
When we're speaking about Nelson... Taller is an upgrade!
by Justin85 on Dec 19, 2011 8:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
that's what she said
"Generally, when I draw the play, it's just who's going where. Maybe I have not made it clear enough that we would like the ball to go in the basket."
by AB's triple double on Dec 19, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Just saw that the Clippers waived PG Wille Warren
I think he could be a steal for someone…. we should give his agent a call.
Wow, we are desperate.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 19, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Warren was well respected coming into that draft.
Unless Duhon really bounces back in a big way, we owe it to ourselves to check Warren out.
by Justin85 on Dec 19, 2011 11:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree. Just shows how desperate we are to keep doughy Duhon on the bench.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 20, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Hes got a major attitude problem
but he proved he can score in college, however if I recall, he played terribly in the NCAA tourney.
Reports say he torn up the d-league last year with the third highest PER. That has to be better than Duhon right?
And so ends one of the great streaks in all of sports.
The Orlando Magic’s thrilling preseason run comes to an abrupt end. Let it endure in the annals of basketball lore for generations to cherish henceforth into eternity.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
i might cry
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
ESPN on Miami: "They shot the ball remarkably well, including their training camp free agents who are likely a few days from heading back to the D-League. "
I don’t care beyin destroyed by Lebron, Wade and Bosh,they are great players. But by D league players? Come on!! Our bench lost to them, that’s plain awful.
I was hoping to see our rookies play towards the end,
maybe one of them could have showed some energy.
by INTOTHEMEATGRINDER on Dec 19, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
that's good ol' SVG for you right there
he never seems to want to develop players (unlike JERRY SLOAN)…I like SVG and he’s a good coach BUT his "tactics"when it comes to young players are a broken record
by extremoceleste on Dec 19, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
this is unacceptable
30 minutes for the starters in a pre-season game and no time for Liggins,Harper or Hughes. I personally want to see if the 6’5 Hughes can play some point for us.
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe SVG saw Hughes play point in practice and determined that it really wasn't worth watching it in a game
If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.
Practice? We talkin bout practice???
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Again
The expectation right now is that the Magic are a title-winning team, potentially. van Gundy isn’t paid for player development right now. He’s paid to get his top 8-10 guys into game winning shape, with around 20% of their normal pre-season fitness schedule.
There will be a time for the kids to play, but it’s not now.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When you've only got two pre-season games
It’s pretty pointless putting kids out there when you’re expected to compete for a title.
Maybe teams like the Kings have the luxury of giving kids a taste, but the Magic need to figure this out ASAP to hit the ground running – unless management decides to trade Dwight and blow it up, at which point everything reverses. But they’ve not done that, and until they do, the goal is a title.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
true
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Umm..hate to be the bearer of bad news but..
We are not expected to compete for a title. If we were, Dwight wouldn’t want to get on the first thing smokin out of town. I’m a Orlando Magic diehard..but I’m also realistic..and realistically we aren’t very good. SVG needs to see what kind of talent he has in these young guys..especially competing against the best team with the best wings in the league (Wade and LeBron). You won’t know what you got until you give them a chance and let them play a little. I understand that we do need to get our rotation guys back in NBA shape..especially with only 2 preseason games and a short training camp..but we also need to take time and evaluate what new talent we potentially have as well..cause we need all the help we can get. Hopefully SVG’ll give them some PT this next game..
Your opinion is irrelevant (so is mine)
The Magic front office are expecting this season’s team to compete for a title, no matter how unrealistically. They’re the ones who pay Stan van Gundy’s salary and evaluate his performance. He needs to convince them he’s doing the best he can to get this team into title winning form.
You’re not going to get starting quality players on a title contending side from low first round picks or high second round picks in their rookie seasons. van Gundy knows it, the front office knows it, which is why they aren’t playing and won’t play.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So much truth it hurts my eyes to read it.
RAWR! (╯°□°)╯︵ ƃuıuɹnqǝʞı˥ǝʇsɐ┴ɐ
by aTasteLikeBurning on Dec 20, 2011 3:55 AM EST up reply actions
courtney lee was a low first round pick and he played well
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 20, 2011 4:01 AM EST up reply actions
He wasn't competing with the same calibre of talent for game time
With all due respect to Bogans and then-JJ.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 5:52 AM EST up reply actions
Plus
Lee had training camp, a full pre-season and 82 games to learn – the current lot just don’t have the time right now. 6 minutes of garbage time is not going to help them any.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 20, 2011 5:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ok...
i was just responding to your statement…
You’re not going to get starting quality players on a title contending side from low first round picks or high second round picks in their rookie seasons.
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 20, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
If you want
Add “especially when they have absolutely no time to learn how to play NBA basketball before the season starts” if it helps. It’s implied because, y’know, that’s what is actually happening this season but if I need to be explicit, there it is.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 21, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Same thought I had.
I was watching Play by Play and couldn’t even recognise those names on Miami and they still out-played our players. :(
Norris Cole has been raising eyebrows in South Florida since training camp started.
He appears to be D League gem find of the season.
Ira Winderman said last week that Cole would be the starting PG in a few weeks by the way he had been blowing Chalmers out of the water in camp. He looked really good yesterday.
Why can’t the Magic find a gem back up point guard in the D League….
Because Otis is our GM
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
what bout Gortat?
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Gortat was a second round pick
He was only ever assigned to the D-league for game time. Not “found” in the D league.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 19, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
oh ok word
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Miami's
defensive rotations were really good. Every time we moved the ball around to the next guy they almost always had someone waiting there with a hand in there face.
I also thought at times we made unnecessary extra passes or dribbled to much. On more than one occasion I saw both JJ and Jameer get past a screen into space and pass up on an open look , then pass to someone who was being defended and watch them put up junk.
I know its pre-season but it’s not like we had a huge roster overhaul or anything. Most of them know the SVG’s system already.
Every defense looks good when your post player doesnt want to play and nobody is creating off the dribble
Its the main problem with the 4-1.. Guys get lazy and dont want to drive when the post isnt open
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 19, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Game 2 Predictions Anybody?
Will Dwight turn it on? Will Hedo be back strong? Will Jameer catch his rhythm?
by DaytonaJim00 on Dec 19, 2011 4:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
we lose by 15 this time
Don't be a follower homie, be a leader! And if I lose you on twitter, then so be it
by supermantotherescue on Dec 19, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
My biggest problem with the game was Dwight's post game
He was doing well early with average position and trying to use his speed against guys who are roughly his size which is what he should do in that situation. But in others it seemed he was trying to force up a shot when he was almost a little bit closer than the foul line. That’s not the shot he should be looking for. What also ticked me off was when he had the ball in the latter situation and a second defender came, he didn’t pass the ball out. I saw three instances where JJ or Jameer was open for a three and he didn’t get the ball to them. I get it’s the preseason and he’s the best big man in the game, but if you see a guy open and you’re double-teamed, pass it! Also, I can’t read too much into Jameer shooting 0-10. I’d say 7 or 8 of those shots were quality shots that just didn’t go in. Most were short and you can blame that on the tired legs. Only J-Rich and Anderson looked to have rested legs and have the energy to play. Jameer still had 7 assists so he wasn’t a waste, he just needs to use his size and speed to his advantage and take it to the hoop. He did that some last night but not to the extent most people would like. Turk was also doing great until that injury. I wouldn’t say he’s in “09” form, but he definitely looks better than last year and looks like he can bring a ton to the team as the secondary ball handler/facilitator when healthy. Last thing: Anderson should definitely be starting, and, depending on how JJ does in the next couple games, you could make the case for Redick to start too. He got to the line more than J-Rich and shot better than him imo, but if J-Rich drives to the hoop like he started to do in the first quarter, I think we can have a great 1-2 punch at the two-guard spot. That’s what I got from the game and I just hope the Magic come out with some more energy and rested legs. Maybe we can get a blow-out and play some rookies :P Go Magic!
EAT ME
If we had a point guard who...
could bring the ball up the court quickly and get the offense started early in the clock, I think that would go a long way to solving problems with Dwight’s post game. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand what Duhon (and sometimes Jameer) was doing last night, almost every posession he struggled to get the ball up the court. I refuse to believe he’s an NBA player, when a d-league recruit (Cole) out-plays him in every aspect of the game, including the simple-est—just getting the damn ball up the court and starting the offense. (Anyway rant over). In Dwight’s defense, quite a few of his crappier shots came late in the shot clock, when the only option was to chuck up a turd.
"
by TheOtherWhiteMeat on Dec 19, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions

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