In Search for Backup Center, Orlando Magic Seek Impact Player, Not Simply a Warm Body
by Evan Dunlap on Jan 5, 2011 7:01 AM EST
in Commentary
Email
Print
The Orlando Magic are serious about winning a championship this season. Otis Smith, the team's President of Basketball Operations, made that much abundantly clear when he traded four rotation players last December 18th for Gilbert Arenas, Earl Clark, Jason Richardson, and Hedo Turkoglu, but he'd long before instilled an organizational philosophy of winning sooner rather than later. Images of the Larry O'Brien Trophy hang throughout the Magic's facilities in Amway Center, for example. There's no confusion as to the team's goal.
And HOOPSWORLD's latest report about the Magic's trade activity affirms that. After losing Marcin Gortat in that trade with the Phoenix Suns, the Magic have only three rotation-caliber big men on their roster, and naturally, they're searching for another. Coach Stan Van Gundy downplayed that need on New Year's Eve, saying he's comfortable using Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, and Dwight Howard as his only bigs on a nightly basis. But Orlando indeed needs another big guy, one who can play center, if it's going to challenge the rest of the league's elite this postseason.
Alex Kennedy says, however, Smith "wants someone that can have a significant role for the remainder of the season." Orlando isn't interested in scraping the bottom of the barrel for a veteran retread, or just another seven-footer; it wants a contributor.
If nothing else, you've got to commend Smith's ambition here. Why settle for the recently waived Jarron Collins or Pops Mensah-Bonsu, after all, when the Portland Trail Blazers may make Marcus Camby available? Kennedy mentions Camby as someone in whom Smith has interest, which makes sense. Though nearly 37, the Trail Blazers' starting center is averaging 11.6 rebounds and 1.8 blocked shots. He'd be wildly overqualified as a backup center.
The biggest issue in acquiring Camby, or any other competent center, is that Orlando has precious little to offer in a trade. Chris Duhon and Quentin Richardson, on whom Smith split the Mid-Level Exception last summer, are out of the rotation and have almost no trade value. Jason Williams' arthritic feet aren't getting better, and although he'd be an ideal fit for some teams needing a push-the-pace backup point guard--think the New York Knicks--his health is a huge question mark, and his league-minimum salary means Orlando couldn't get much for him in a trade.
The Magic sent this year's first-round draft selection to Phoenix, meaning the next-best pick it could use to sweeten a deal in 2013's first-rounder, as NBA rules prohibit teams from trading draft picks in consecutive seasons. The trade cupboard is really, really bare.
If Smith could have obtained a reliable seven-footer in exchange for Quentin Richardson and Duhon, he would have done it already. About that there should be little doubt. Similarly, were he interested in free-agents like Jake Voskuhl or Earl Barron, he would have signed one.
Which brings us to J.J. Redick, the Magic's backup shooting guard and among the league's most efficient offensive players. Kennedy, citing "league sources," says the Magic "may have to part with J.J. Redick if they're eyeing a veteran big who can contribute much more than just six fouls each night."
Last week, I argued against trading Redick, for a number of reasons. But if the Magic truly feel like they need a contributor on the level of Camby, Jeff Foster, or Samuel Dalembert--to name but a few commodities--they probably will have no choice but to trade Redick.
Smith's patient approach could pay dividends here. It's nearly February, when teams out of the playoff picture may begin buying out their veterans in order to free them to sign with contenders. Orlando will be an attractive destination for such players. Smith can still offer a pro-rated portion of the bi-annual exception; among championship-caliber teams, only the San Antonio Spurs and Dallas Mavericks can do the same. The other reasons for signing with a Florida team, including the weather and lack of a state income tax, also apply here. Should the right player become available then, I fully expect Smith to make him an attractive offer.
But if not, he might have to make the difficult decision to unload Redick, who has, in one of the greatest success stories of Smith's tenure as a Magic executive, developed into one of the league's better young guards in the non-superstar class. Or he could keep Redick and sign the sort of unhelpful stiff he's resisted adding to date.
Waiting for the right big man to come along is a high-risk, high-reward proposition. Though risky, it's also the right tactic for Smith to use.
241 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Just don't see that happening.
I’d rather keep Redick and sign a scrub than trade him for 37 yr old Camby. I’m sure most of you will agree.
by INTOTHEMEATGRINDER on Jan 5, 2011 7:08 AM EST reply actions
I agree
I’m pretty comfortable with Bass and Anderson holding down our backup C duties. The only contending teams with good backup Cs are the Lakers, Mavs, and Celtics
So basically, our only concern in the EC is when we have to play Bass against Shaq. I think Bass won’t be able to contain shaq, but shaq will also have a hard time containing Bass’s 15 ft jumper and speed/athleticism.
In conclusion, I am not too worried about our lack of “size”. I think the fact that we beat Boston and SA with Bass and Anderson should prove that we don’t really have a pressing need to find a backup C
And I would definitely not trade JJ for Camby, as JJ has become one of our most clutch and reliable players..in all honesty, I think I would rather trade Jameer over JJ, considering the logjam at PG now
What about Jameer, Duhon, and our trade exception for Camby and Andre Miller?
by supermantotherescue on Jan 5, 2011 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
Um, what about no?
Why would we completely shoot ourselves in the foot like that? We’d be crazy to take that kind of hit at point guard and lose our leader in exchange for two guys on the verge of retirement.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
hey..........looks who's back
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Jan 5, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Um, how about are you crazy?
So you are saying Camby and Miller < Nelson and Duhon. Have you lost your mind. I will agree to disagree because there is just no way I could even begin to debate this. Yes Jameer is great, but Miller is better than him at just about every aspect of the PG position. Then you add a Duhon for a Camby and the war is over everyone can go home. Portland is the one who would never do this trade as it would make absolutely no sense for them. Not to mention even if both guys retired at season’s end, which they would not, then you would have just knocked off a bunch of salary to undo the Duhon signing.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
Andre Miller's a better passer, and he's bigger than Jameer.
Jameer is quicker, a much MUCH better shooter, is on a better contract than Miller, is younger, and oh, he’s also the co-captain of the team.
Besides, Portland would never do that deal to begin with, ever. You don’t trade Camby unless you get cap relief or a young talent in return. Duhon is neither. Besides, two PG’s in one trade? They have Patty Mills as their back-up. Is someone else really going to trade for Duhon just to make him a $4 million third stringer like he is here?
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Miller is not nearly the player he once was.
And Jameer is a better passer than his assist totals suggest — always has been. (And he’s a better organizer of the offense than he is a passer.)
What tips this offer from unlikely over into insulting to me is the fact that both of these players are much older. Even if you think Miller is better than Jameer, even if you think Miller is ENOUGH better than Jameer to make up for the fact that he doesn’t know the Magic’s system by heart, you’re still left with nothing in a year or two. (Or whenever Miller retires/becomes unable to start.) And salary doesn’t matter at that point — the Magic are over the cap for years to come.
It’s the opposite of what the Magic have been doing. By dealing Carter and Lewis for Hedo, Arenas and Richardson, the Magic got younger — not MUCH younger, but 2-3 years younger.
Which is the crucial underrated part of the trade to me… in a year and a half, when Dwight is a free agent, he’s not going to look around and see a 35-year-old Vince and a 33-year-old Rashard. he’s going to see guys in the 30-33 range… definitely not young, but not so old that they don’t have years to come.
Jameer is in the same age bracket as the guys we got in that trade. We’re not trading him for last-chance aging guys. Not happening.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I am debating only hypotheticals now
as we all know this trade would never happen, due to Portland’s GM still having a brain, but while I agree with getting younger in a lot of respects, a player like Andre Miller is of the Jason Kidd mold, big PG that uses his size and passing to make it happen. And looking down the road, which to me is the biggest appeal to that deal, is that it knocks Duhon’s contract off the books and allows for a better PG to be signed. Lest you forget we currently have a PG signed for a few years at 20 mil per, and a point forward that will be wanting the ball at crunch time that makes a lot of money. All of that, and I don’t want to sound like I wouldn’t like to keep Jameer, I am very fond of what he brings to the Magic. I am just saying that the whole of that trade brings back a lot more value now and down the road than what would leave. Which is again the reason it would never happen anyhow. The salaries are way off anyhow, I am pretty sure Camby is around 11 million, and that is what Jameer and Duhon make combined. And now you are talking Jameer and Duhon for Camby, which doesn’t sit well with me at all.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
The value would come from
I will use Nelson and Duhon’s salary as this conversation is based off of mythical trades that don’t even match up thus are impossible, so:
Duhon – 3.5mil
Nelson 8 mil
Which is 11.5 million coming off the books when Camby and Miller retire (in this made up trade, I am acting like the salaries match). Then you couple that with J Rich’s expiring 14.5 and that is 26 million off the top. The Magic are currently I am approzimating about 20 million over the tax threshhold, so they would then be under by 6 million. That doesn’t take into account that Jason Williams and Earl Clark’s deals will be through which brings us down another 2.75 mil, not sure about Malik and Q Rich, so I will leave them out of this. But as such we would be almost 9 million under with holes at backup PG and center, and depending on who you ask, a hole at either backup or starting SG (depending on if you think Redick can be a starter or not, I tend to think he can now). Granted my logic is flawed without actual research, as I am not a GM, and this is an impossible trade anyhow, but basically the value of removing a 4 mil third stringer is good for the long run is my consensus.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
Eh.
Still over the cap, right? We’d be left over the cap, with 5-6 rotation quality players and no easy way to replace the rest. Who even cares about the tax? That’s money stuff, and the team doesn’t seem desperate to cut costs or anything.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
When's the last time you saw Andre Miller?
I’m not arguing that he wasn’t good in 2005 or whatever.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
This hypothetical
was contigent on getting rid of Duhon by sending out Nelson, and getting back Camby and Miller. I would not trade Nelson for Miller straight up, I was pointing out that Miller’s skills would be utilized easily as a starting but backup PG mold as Arenas would take most minutes.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
So you want to downgrade BOTH PG spots?
Understood. Not sure how 10-15 minutes of Marcus Camby justifies doing that, but understood.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I don't understand what you mean
How would getting Miller and Camby for Nelson and Duhon a downgrade on two PG spots?
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
Arenas is a downgrade from Nelson as a starting PG, and Miller is a downgrade from Arenas as the backup.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
But damn it
this trade is not possible, and I really like Jameer, so this debate is fruitless. Having a fantastic backup big man, and a great PG come in at the expense of Jameer and Duhon was a good deal due to the facts I outlined at length above imo. Miller is not a great fit for the Magic, but his size and passing would definitely make it work. And there is no doubting Camby could fill in for backup / injury / foul minutes for Dwight. Losing Jameer while ridding Duhon’s long deal, and gaining a great backup PG and C in the process would make sense to me from that standpoint.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
Well
The reason I would want to do that trade is because I believe Arenas can be more productive than Jameer, and should play 30+ mins a game.
I think Andre Miller would be a great backup PG, and while I believe Jameer is slightly better than Miller, I think the addition of Camby would make the trade worth it.
Maybe we can include Orton? I only included Duhon to make the salaries match up
by supermantotherescue on Jan 5, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
By the way
can we use the trade exception as part of a deal to make the salaries match?
by supermantotherescue on Jan 5, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Oh ok
thanks for the info! that’s too bad that we can’t use it with players though
by supermantotherescue on Jan 5, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don't want to get into the Meer vs. Miller debate.
I am just curious as to whether or not Portland would trade Camby for JJ? I thought Portland already had quite a few guards themselves (Fernandez, Miller, Roy, etc.). Would they part with Camby to get another? And that only leaves them with Prybzilla and Marks as dependable centers, doesn’t it? (And no, I’m not counting Oden right now.)
Denmark, rotten, etc.
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
I'm just saying: What if "being right" and "having the last post" as an anonymous personality on a sports blog aren't really big deals?
salaries are way too different for a straight up trade involving jj
redick’s value in a trade is like 3.6 million. camby contract is close to 10 million.
Magic would have to send JJ and Duhon and Q-Rich to make a trade work.
I can’t Portland taking on 3 more guards.
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
Hello, handsome, is that a ten-gallon hat or are you just enjoying the show?
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Jan 5, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
KAHN!!!!
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
Hello, handsome, is that a ten-gallon hat or are you just enjoying the show?
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Jan 5, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Duhon and QRich for Love!!!! Make it work Kahn!!!!
Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are special in their own ways. OK?
He would find a way
He would probably throw in the rights to Ricky Rubio just to make sure we would uh “take” the deal. lol.
"I can't see Portland taking on 3 more guards."
That’s what I was trying to say above, I just got all tied up in doing so.
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
I'm just saying: What if "being right" and "having the last post" as an anonymous personality on a sports blog aren't really big deals?
Sure.
Sorry I wasn’t clear-I was just speaking to the personnel side of the issue. Regardless of money, I don’t see the Blazers trading away Camby for two guards and a forward, given their current personnel. But stranger things have happened.
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
I'm just saying: What if "being right" and "having the last post" as an anonymous personality on a sports blog aren't really big deals?
What trade value does Q Rich and Duhon hold?
They seem to be the odd men out (in my book)…
Bleeding Blue Black and Silver for 21 of my 24 years
by FLYNN47 on Jan 5, 2011 7:22 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Never mind that, just read the rest of the article...
I see the answer is their value is slightly higher than a large popcorn and coke combo from the snack bar…
Bleeding Blue Black and Silver for 21 of my 24 years
by FLYNN47 on Jan 5, 2011 7:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well...
…we just need to find the big man version of Richardson or Duhon… a guy signed to a mid-level exception or thereabouts, who hasn’t panned out with his team, but might do so in new surroundings.
Duhon and Richardson’s shaky performance this year means they certainly don’t have MUCH trade value… but they’ve done enough in the past to suggest they could contribute for someone. It’s a gamble for the team taking them…the key is gambling in return. If we can find a team actively looking to get rid of a big man, it’s not out of the question for both teams to swap bad contracts in the hopes that the new arrival will fit in better with he new tam.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
The trouble is
Duhon’s contract is so damn long.
So damn long.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:40 AM EST up reply actions
What a stupid move that would be.
Right now the Magic have the best guard rotation in the league…and league in which everyone keeps saying is more guard-centric than ever before. The idea that they would give that advantage up for a guy who should only be playing 10 min. a night just doesn’t make sense.
The Magic saved $4.5 million in salary this year from the trade, so they have a little over $2 million to offer a FA to basically be in the same place they were before it. That’s well over the veterans minimum they’ll need to pay to pick up a decent veteran FA. Wait until after the veteran buy-out period, then pick someone up without trading anyone.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 5, 2011 8:04 AM EST reply actions
The only way they can offer more than the minimum is using their bi-annual exception.
If you’re over the salary cap, you don’t get extra cap room for a FA just because you lose some of the salary. You can’t offer a normal contract as long as you’re above the cap limit.
I do agree 100% that giving up Redick for a guy that should only be playing 10-15 min/night is stupid though.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
That snide remark about Mensah-Bonsu was uncalled for.
He’s got no offensive game, true, but Mensah-Bonsu is a skilled rebounder, and definitely worthy of NBA playing time.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Otis.would lose alot of fans if Refuck goes!
Redick is the hardest playing and smartest playrer ORL has along with consistent. He has been the 2nd leading scorer during our win streak. Dont get too cute Otis! What we have on perimeter chemistry is pretty good. Just get us a body and leave our boy alone!
LOL. So that's what the phone predicts when you type "Re-"?
by The Stan 'Stache on Jan 5, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
I have no clue how that happened??????
by O-Town MagiCane on Jan 5, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Fat Thumbs/User Error :)
“R-e” = correct
“D” is next to “F”, so you accidentally hit “F”
“I” is next to “U”, so you accidentally hit “U”
“c-k” = correct
So by accidentally hitting the keys next to the two correct keys, you have your funny typo. Kudos!
I'm sure it was just a mistake
Randomly successive 4 letters…
Phone auto-completes can screw things up, man.
I just want to know how that word was entered into his phone’s vocab list…
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
lmfao
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 5, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
We don't need anybody the caliber of Marcus Camby coming off the bench for 10 minutes a game
Especially if it means giving up JJ, who I feel is vital to a championship run.
Cannot Trade Redick
As a player in the first year of a re-signed deal, he cannot be traded without his permission, which I very much doubt he would grant to any team that is not a championship contender where he would be starting. Like Chicago or…..well Chicago. Think he’d veto a trade to Portland
I know I would, if I were in his position.
Also…it’s worth noting that no matter how many trades Redick refuses, I think SVG is going to keep playing him. Stan doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to let upper-office anger determine who goes on the floor.
There’s really almost no incentive at all for Redick to be willing to go anywhere at this point.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 5, 2011 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
I honestly dont believe that we can contend without JJ. I am pretty sure we can contend without another big man.
If you are paying close attention to most of the past recent games, Dwight is making a concerted effort to stay out of foul trouble (technical fouls are a different story). I think that as of right now, he has only fouled out of one game. I see shots and uncontested layups that easily could be blocked but because the potential of a foul is there, he allows it to slide to avoid a foul.
I am not saying that this is a legitimate reason on why we shouldn’t trade JJ but it is something to think about. JJ is vital to our team success. He reminds me of Steve Kerr with the Bulls back in the day…with just better ability to get to the hoop.
Yo! I am Twitter!! @McLeanCromer Follow me!
Magic Fan...all day, every day, even on Sunday!
I totally disagree, we cannot contend without another big man
But i do feel that losing JJ or J-rich would be to much of a price to pay for Dwights backup, come playoff time we need to have someone to give our guys a rest during the day to day grind. We dont need to trade any rotational player for this but it does need to happen, just not in any rush, I do feel if Brandon does neeed surgery he should just get it now though. Either that or we should give him a week off.
We can contend without another GOOD big man.
I mean, not saying we should deliberately try to get a mediocre or bad backup center.
But I’d rather take a slight hit on backup center quality (10-15 minutes a game) than lose the 25-30 minutes of strong production we get from JJ.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
We could do worse.
We could also do better, but still.
I’d rather have Tree Rollins than Jarron Collins.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Trading JJ would be CRAZY
Redick is a massive part of this team and in my opinion is the most important player coming off the Magic’s bench so why the hell would you trade him for a big man who will play 10 mins. A big body who can rebound will surfice, we have plenty of other scorers.
Blue and White Ignite..... BOOM!
Trading JJ makes no financial sense - given that BYC thing (which I have little idea about, but all I know is that his first year trade value is only half)
Plus I’m just about to buy his jersey I don’t want that to go to waste!
As usual, with little research – the national media just picks out the “weak link” in terms of reputation in the Magic lineup. I think we’re still 2-3 weeks away from another signing.
JJ trade talk is silly
For all of the reasons mentioned above (youth, trade veto, BYC, etc.). The national writers are just digging. Plus, who cares what other execs say the Magic need to trade. Of course, they’d love to have JJ, so they say publically, no trades unless JJ is included. Watch those same teams excitedly dump contracts in late February and March.
Moreover, the Magic would not trade JJ unless they resign J Rich (or another top tier SG). J Rich is in the last year of his contract and Gil is much better at PG than SG. The only true SG the Magic have signed for next year is JJ. Can’t see the Magic putting themselves in a position to have to sign J Rich (likely at $20 a year) because they don’t have another true SG on the roster.
The fact that Richardson is on loan is even more proof that we have to go for broke this year.
We don’t know if he’ll be back.
The idea that we’re going to pay our #3/4 option $20 mill is crazy, though. He’s not a max player. Don’t think Otis is going to make that mistake again.
I don’t want to trade JJ, but we’re obviously really thin up front and really deep in the back. We need to balance that out. It might not make sense from the perspective of BYC, but he’s the only valuable piece in that back court (assuming we’re not moving Nelson).
Would It Still Be Possible
to re-sign Richardson even though we are over the cap?
by supermantotherescue on Jan 5, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I thought someone
Said we would have his bird rights. I have no idea if that is true or not. If we do we could match. But they could also work out an extension before the free agency period either way I believe.
$20 a year?
Bargain!
Not sure it would pass the CBA, though.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
Any way it goes we still need a big man
So we get 1 in free agency or we trade for one. And if thats the case Duhon and sumbody else got to go.
One of these front courts is not like the other...
Spurs: Duncan/Splitter/Blair/McDyess/Bonner
Lakers: Bynum/Gasol/Odom/Ratliff
Mavericks: Chandler/Haywood/Dirk/Ajinca
Celtics: Shaq/Garnett/Perkins/Davis/O’Neal
Magic: Howard/Bass/Anderson/Clark/Allen
Assuming this isn’t the Heat’s year, our front court is weak next to any of these teams vying for the championship (you could make the case that we’re about even with San Antonio). Replacement level won’t get it done for this year.
I love JJ and his perfectly coiffed hair, but if he can bring back a starting-caliber big (one who can preferably play some 4) then I think we have to pull the trigger.
Before the trade I could see where we could build for the future. Now it looks like Otis has gone all in and we need to view the next move with that in mind.
Are you sure? Bynum might be as good as Dwight...
I mean, that’s what some Lakers fans have said before, so it must be true.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
This
Yes we do not have depth at the center spot. But when you have the best center in the world right now, you can’t worry about who his backup is. Just get someone that can play about 5 minutes. Seriously. Dwight is gonna play about 44 minutes in the playoffs anyways. He is 25. If he was 35 I would worry about his backup, not while he is 25. Besides if he goes down we are screwed anyways.
The problem with Dwight is fouls
Not minutes. If he can stay on the court, there’s no problem. If he gets a suspension, or gets three quick fouls, suddenly you’re looking at Bass vs Perkins and Shaq for 10-15 minutes in a playoff game, and that could get ugly. Maybe it won’t. But it could.
I don’t think trading Redick is the right solution, but I don’t think blindly assuming that Dwight will be fine is helpful either. We know Dwight has foul trouble. We know Dwight has tech trouble. We know Dwight’s got suspensions in the past for flagrants. Do we really want to gamble the title on him being able to stay on the court? If he’s injured – whatever, we’re done. But if we lose a couple of games to the Celtics or the Bulls in the playoffs because Dwight was sitting or suspended or whatever, when we could have got a better backup than our starting PF, then we’ll rightly be second guessing Smith.
We need to sign a good backup. Not a great one – he doesn’t need to be Camby’s quality – but someone better than Clark or Allen is definitely necessary, I think.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:49 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Yep.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 6, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm curious as to why no mention was made of J-Rich as tade bait?
He’s a good player with a comparable salary and an expiring contract. Am I missing something obvious here?
R.I.P. Peaches . . . Your love for the Magic was only eclipsed by your love for untimely turnovers.
...and has done very well in that role thus far.
We’re not dealing him for the same reason we’re not dealing JJ: because we are going to keep playing him.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Of course I get that we want his scoring but I thought the point of the OP was that we won't be able to get a quality big man without giving up a quality rotation player . . .
So I don’t get why JJ would be mentioned but not J-Rich, especially when we could very well lose J-Rich for nothing this summer?
I like what I’ve seen from J-rich so far but I would think getting a big man of Camby’s quality for him would warrant consideration. Also, if JJ can sustain his current level of play, it could somewhat mitigate the loss of J-Rich.
R.I.P. Peaches . . . Your love for the Magic was only eclipsed by your love for untimely turnovers.
We don't need a "quality" big man.
We just need someone better than Malik Allen or Mikki Moore.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
"quality" is a subjective term . . .
in this context it meant a significant “contributor”.
R.I.P. Peaches . . . Your love for the Magic was only eclipsed by your love for untimely turnovers.
"Contributor" is just as subjective.
I think we just need someone who’s a competent rebounder and won’t tank the interior defense while Dwight is out. There are guys who can do that who can come cheap. Basically, something similar to what PJ Brown did for the Celtics in their title run.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
The D part is the most important.
On the offense the team just has to forget there is no Dwight and do not try to continue to play inside out. I remember that last Malik Allen game, when he was getting way more looks that he should have had, lol.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Brian Skinner (and his mult-colored beard) and Steve Novak
were waived this morning.
Guess they both categorize as warm-bodies.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
Although Skinner did average 4PTS/4REB/1BLK in 16 minutes during 08-09.
Can’t be worse than Malik Allen, can he?
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
by GonzoBallSHU on Jan 5, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
If this is what we're stuck with, I'd rather have Mensah-Bonsu.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
But he's not a backup center. Skinner is at least taller and fatter.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
by GonzoBallSHU on Jan 5, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Even though Otis and SVG deny it
We could use a goon to throw his body around and make nice hard fouls.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
by GonzoBallSHU on Jan 5, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Well, what we mostly need at backup C is a rebounder.
I guess not as much as we used to, given that Ryan is our backup PF, and he’s effective on the boards. But still.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Yeah, I don't think Skinner/Bonsu/Novak could qualify as an effective rebounder at this point in their careers.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
by GonzoBallSHU on Jan 5, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Mensah-Bonsu has rebounded everywhere he's played, though.
Check out his stats. 8.8 minutes per game, 3.1 rebounds. Granted, that’s only 54 games over 4 seasons, but that’s enough to suggest to me that he’s at least solid on the boards.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Shorter, actually.
Skinner lists at 6’9" to Mensah-Bonsu’s 6’10". Yeah, he weighs more, but that’s not muscle.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Ah. Bonsu is listed as 6'9 at NBA.com
Skinner is 20lbs heavier. I don’t care what it is, it’s a body.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
by GonzoBallSHU on Jan 5, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hm, maybe Mensah-Bonsu shrunk?
I distinctly recall him being 6’10", 225.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Draft Express lists them
Mensah-Bonsu as 6’7.5" w/o shoes, 6’9" w/ shoes
Skinner as 6’9" (it’s on the w/o shoes column, but I think it’s just his official height)
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Fair enough.
The size difference is probably insignificant. But I would say that Mensah-Bonsu is probably the better athlete at this point in his career.
(On account of not being 34.)
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Jrich would be traded for Camby, not jj
It makes no sense to trade JJ when you only get half his value in a trade.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
Trading JJ for Camby could make sense both short term and long term
Short term adding Camby and subtracting JJ from the 8 man rotation would provide more balance; 4 players for the wing|4 players for the paint.
Long term it cuts three multi-year salaries (JJ|Q|Duhon for Camby) while adding only one shot term salary, clearing cap space. It also eases any decision about resigning J-Rich as without JJ on the team there is a glaring hole at the two.
Both rotations are great, but replacing JJ with Camby has a nice feel to it.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
Exactly...
J Rich would likely command $20 over many years. Can’t see us having Gil, Howard, Turk, and J Rich at such high salaries. Turk and Gil are untradeable and Howard is untouchable, so J. Rich is most likely gone after this year title or not.
So, I guess I should anticipate us taking a step back next year...
We’re not going to be able to find a player of J-Rich’s caliber at shooting guard for us…So it’s all or nothing this year.
Unless Otis does trade him
For a less pricey SG and a backup C.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
Richardson won't get max money
He’ll probably get roughly what Turk got, maybe a little more. 5 years, $55-60m
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:52 AM EST up reply actions
" It also eases any decision about resigning J-Rich as without JJ on the team there is a glaring hole at the two."
Point of note, we hold J-Rich’s Bird Rights. He leaves if we choose to let him leave.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jan 5, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
That is good to know
Something tells me he is going to like sunny Orlando with that no state tax thingy. Especially with the lockout coming. But you never know.
Something tells me
He is going to like a large pile of money, regardless of where it comes from.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:53 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, yeah, good point about it not be equal to being a restricted free agent, I shouldn't have framed it in those terms.
One would hope that since we can match or exceed any market offer due to holding his bird rights that he’d agree, but not having it quite in stone does leave trading JJ on shakier ground.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jan 5, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
i bet my house that otis is not even considering trading jj.
not an option otis is not stupid.
Too low..
He is only 29 years old (soon to be 30), already makes almost $15 mil a year, and is arguably better now than he was when he signed his last contract. Of course, the new CBA could make all of this moot as who knows what the parameters will be.
Well, he was overpaid in his last contract.
I can guarantee you he’s not getting the maximum this summer. I’d say someone will give him $7-8 million a year, maybe as many as $10 if the Magic go far with him… I mean, if he’s seen as a catalyst for a long Orlando playoff run, he could get a deal like the one Turkoglu got.
But he’s never REALLY looked like a max player… he’s been a 20-PPG scorer, but never had the kind of all-around game to transcend that level. And at his age, he’s not going to suddenly find another gear. He’s going to be a useful second/third option with unremarkable defense and passing, and players like that get somewhere in the high seven digits.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
He is not a max player.
Actually even less than Rashard was. Rashard allowed Dwight to operate and create mismatches. Jason Richardson is just Courtney Lee HD. Not that I am dissing him or anything. He is a phenominal scorer and is very good at everything else. After watching him he is very underrated on defense. See what happens when coaches enforce defense on their teams?
Rashard was also a legit 20+ PPG scorer when we got him.
Whereas Richardson never quite reached that plateau.
(Also, Rashard was a few years younger when he signed with Orlando.)
I like Richardson too, and hope he fits in on the Magic — but I don’t think he’s going to get the max from them or anyone else.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Rashard was a beast
Like you said he was already a legit 20+scorer and basically he and Ray Allen lead Seattle to the WCF. But I agree, don’t think Richardson gets the max.
He'll easily get more than $8m
He was a top ten in the league SG with the Suns. $10m is his floor, and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone offers him $14m a year.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:54 AM EST up reply actions
When was he that with the Suns?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
This season
19.7 PER, 57% TS, 22 points per 36 minutes with Phoenix.
To put that in context, at the moment Hollinger has Joe Johnson as the 10th rated SG in the league with 17.23 PER and 51% TS.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 8, 2011 3:54 AM EST up reply actions
Only team
Would be the Bulls as they DESPERATELY need a 2 guard. I could see them overpaying for him. Really don’t know why Joe Johnson didnt got Chicago. Rose, Johnson, Boozer, and Noah is a really good building block. Oh yeah he cares more about the money than winning. Gotta love that memory thing.
Any real 2 guard on that team
Would be scary. Even Courtney Lee. A good slasher and spot up shooter while also playing lock down defense. Scary.
Still don't see where the Bulls are going to get scoring efficiency from.
That is not a team built to take smart shots. Of course, after a certain point, that’s a secondary concern….
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Well if they get Richardson
He is pretty efficient. Plus you would have to take into consideration Derrick Rose playing with a good 2 guard would make both of them better. I liked Rose a lot when he was in college(even though the NCAA says he didn’t lead his team to the title game, my eyes tell me he did), but there is something I do not like about him right now. One stat that will stick with me is the Celtics game, the Celtics outscored the Bulls by 20 or 30 points when both Rondo and Rose were on the court. I think Rose is very good but not sure what bothers me about him.
What is with the Chicago dreams
who cares how good or not Chicago is, Chicago deserves to never win another playoff game again imo. I would even enjoy a so called curse on them for the way they ended the dynasty.
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
Just having a healthy non Magic basketball conversation
Also it affects the Magic in that Jason Richardson could go there after the season. This needs to talk more than just Orlando Magic. Conversations and discussions about other teams is good.
Reinsdorf is the only one left from that.
And it wasn’t his idea for things to end. That was Crumbs Krause.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
It's Rose's 49.6% eFG% and 53.7% TS% that needs to improve
…he needs to be more efficient in those areas, but he’s improved so much in other facets of his game… his 8.5 assists per game, 4.6 rebounds per game, and 1.1 steals per game are all career highs, and his three point percentage is 13 points higher than last year’s and is near 40%, which is more than respectable.
Oddly enough, his two point shooting and efficiency have gone down, but he does so much in other areas to help the team win; I will be surprised if he does not finish in the top 10 in MVP voting after the season considering that he’s done so much to help the Bulls win games while Carlos Boozer was injured and now Joakim Noah.
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC North Champions... Go Bears!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 5, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Prepared to be surprised
Rose has been very good, but so have Paul, Wade, James, Dirk, Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Amare, Deron Williams and Durant.
I think he’ll finish…12th in the MVP voting, unless he picks things up in the second half, which of course he’s perfectly capable of doing.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:59 AM EST up reply actions
He'll be higher because of the media darling aspect.
People like Derrick Rose. They do.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
They do
But I don’t think any of the other guys I mentioned are exactly hated by the media. People like Rose, but they like a lot of players…
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think he will finish top 10
Due to ESPN’s love for him. Maybe that is why I do not like him. Or the Thunder either. I love ESPN but sometimes they love certain things a little too much and they hype up the wrong things sometimes. I love NBAtv and TNT’s coverage as well. I think they are a little bit more honest than ESPN.
They don't have the cap space for Richardson
They’re committed to $64.5m next season.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 3:56 AM EST up reply actions
Does Q-Rich really have no trade value?
He’s got a decent contract, and plenty of teams need a wing rotation player. I could see him going to New York, Chicago, Denver, New Jersey, Dallas. I’m sure all of those teams would like a bigger name, but seems to me we ought to be able to get something in exchange for him.
As for my vote
I say no to trading anyone that is part of the rotation at this time. Unless it is coupled with the untradeables on the bench and returns value to the rotation position lost.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
I think that we can all agree on this.
We have 8 rotation guys… they’re all doing more for us than a hypothetical backup C would do. (even a really good one.) So I don’t see why we’d need to lose any of them just to get a lesser player.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Yes
Remember Brandon Bass and Anderson could cover the spot for about 4 minutes a piece in the playoffs. Well I think they could. Most teams go to a 8 man rotation as it is in the playoffs anyways. Dwight is gonna be averaging about 42-44 minutes a game anyways. Barring foul trouble. And if we play the Knicks I would be even more confident of those two vs the Knicks. I actually could live with them vs the Heat or Bulls as well. Its the Celtics that concern me. Although, Boston may have a bunch of bigs you can only play two at a time and since KG will be playing a lot, 4 guys for one spot. And it is not like they wouldn’t want Perkins on Dwight. The other problem is if they have to play the Lakers should they make it to the Finals. They could put Odom, Bynum and Gasol at the same time. That is what is scary. Or a unit of Kobe, Artest, Odom, Bynum and Gasol. Try scoring on that.
That's not a real thing.
A team is a team — there’s no evidence for any kind of “playoff effect” where a team suddenly and consistently becomes better during certain parts of the season.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
The Celtics were still a good defensive team last year even when they were losing.
The Lakers have dropped close to 15 spots in defensive efficiency from last year to this year, which coupled with a very very easy schedule should be cause for concern. Their schedule is one of the more difficult ones remaining.
Lucky for them
That Phoenix Suns blew their WCF team up, then made stupid trades to fix it, then made another trade that blew it up even more. They will win that division and get home court. I think that is all that matters for them. And the Celtics basically played in a crappy division allowing themselves to get healthy for the playoffs. So I do believe that all you have to do is get to the playoffs and know what to do. There is stat or scientific method to it, but you can see it.
Yeah that is what I meant
Sorry. No way they get home court through out the playoffs. Although the second seed seems possible with Dallas losing Caron Butler for the season. I thought they were the best team in the West when they were healthy.
Celtics also dealt with injuries all last season.
But even aside from that, they had a good stretch in April and May. I’m not saying teams don’t have good and bad stretches. I’m saying that a team whose good stretch happens to coincide with the playoffs one year won’t necessarily get lucky in that regard EVERY year, or vice versa.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
The Celtics have consistently performed in the playoffs the last three years.
To say they don’t play with an added edge or with more focus on execution in the playoffs is to completely disregard the mental aspect of the game, which is a mistake.
Players don’t play as hard when they’re blowing out a team at the end of the game most of the time. Players don’t play as hard in the regular season as they do in the playoffs. Those are real things. When a lot of games are close, basically coin flips, things such as diving for loose balls (i.e. Rondo against J-Will in last year’s playoffs) matter over the course of the game. Extra possessions, fighting harder over screens, working harder on defensive rotations… Urgency inspires people to either excel or fail in all walks of life.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
They mostly have a great freakin' team, whether we like it or not.
And guys, aren’t you tired of the "playoff effect" conversation ? we must have had it a 1000 since I’ve been here. There are plenty of “myths” surrounding that time of year but no one underpalys the pressure, the urgency and the challenges of the situation. Exept of course good old Stan in some interviews.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
I'll be done with it when people stop citing it as though it were a real thing.
If someone showed up and said “the Magic would win more if Stan Van Gundy kept a four-leaf clover in his pocket,” would there be a point where YOU were like, “okay, I don’t agree, but you have your clover theory, and that’s certainly a way of looking at the game”?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
That's why the Celtics win so many championships!
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
I'm just saying: What if "being right" and "having the last post" as an anonymous personality on a sports blog aren't really big deals?
So a team's mental approach to a game does not change and has no bearing?
That’s essentially what you’re saying. The Celtics play better on the big stage. Some players do that, some don’t. It applies to every professional field where intense pressure is involved. This isn’t some made up hocus pocus here.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Except that it is.
“Clutch” in every field disappears when subjected to statistical analysis — there’s no statistically significant correlation between a player/team being “clutch” in one scenario and their being “clutch” in the next one.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
But even if it's not statisticaly sound, what is so
wrong about calling for ex. a guy like Jason Terry “clutch” ? I mean they do give him a ton of shots in the forth quarter and he makes them. It’s not like his % is different but he is one of the top options of his team at the end of games and the guy comes off the bench. And the last 8 min of a game are usually quite important, why not having a word to describe that situation ?
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Good luck with that then.
And to be clear, no way I’m telling you to stop, just seems like “Groundhog Day” every time this comes up. I’m part of the people you changed the view on the subject but as I told you before, some “myths” make the game even better to watch and this is an argument where there is some truth in both sides. As I told you about a year ago, why don’t you make a fan post about it ?
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Don't forget Allen and Orton, both should be healthy in the Playoffs.
While the Magic certainly wouldn’t want either playing heavy minutes, if they were to break up the backup C position for probably 8-10 mins (in the playoffs)…that’s only 2-3 mins for each person in that position.
Not even taking into account the idea that they could be pulled if things are going wrong…it’s hard to imagine that any of those 4 in the C position would cost the Magic the entire game in a span of a couple minutes at the end/start of a couple quarters.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 5, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
We would score on that unit.
All day. Whoever covered Nelson would get blown by every time, and that should cause defensive rotations. On that note, whoever our SG is would blow by Artest as well. Artest is a good defender, but not against players much quicker than him. Besides which, the true issue for the Magic isn’t exactly matchups, it is how to score efficiently when their bread and butter play (draw double teams on Dwight) isn’t available. Now with Turk, Nelson, and Arenas all able to drive and pass to shooters, it really opens up the realm of possibility. Nelson was our only guy that could do that with any success last year in the playoffs. We now have 3 potentials that can burden that load, and one that is close to that in J Rich in respects to just being able to attack the basket.
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
True
But we would have to go with a smaller fast unit, leaving us suspect at rebounding. Although I guess if we get to the Finals the whole reboundingthing will either have worked itself out or Dwight was averaging 25 rbs a game. Lol. That is a good point about the speed. But that is still a long tall team.
Yeah, their length killed Boston in Game 7 last year.
It felt like the Lakers got an offensive board on every missed shot in the first half to keep them in the game.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Well, he's probably a better scorer already.
Murphy was never really a VOLUME three-point shooter.
It’s going to be tough for him to match Murphy’s rebounding, though.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
If I were to give Anderson starter's minutes
I think he would be better than Murphy. But I could be wrong. Also not trying to bring up a sore subject, but with the recent trades, I think it would actually be better to start Anderson over Bass. What do you think? He is like a younger version of Rashard and a better rebounder.
That is what I was mainly thinking
Then John Schumann shows a stat were our starting lineup has been outscored by 77 points or something like that. Is it weird that our backup unit is better than our starting lineup right now?
Its on NBA.com
The title was something like there is more to come or something like that. I post it later tonight.
Hard to say, really.
I mean, we all know how I feel about Anderson vs. Bass in general.
But if they’re going to play roughly equal roles, which seems to be the case, which one should start? I’m actually leaning toward Bass. I feel like Anderson’s superior rebounding is more important when Dwight’s not on the floor, and I’d rather have Nelson and Turk to offset Bass’ passing problems.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I don't, was mainly talking about Ryan.
Though E.D. wrote after the GSW game that he would consider starting Ryan or having Hedo from the bench in order to make a the starting five stronger. But I don’t know if it’s not just something that will come on its own.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Yeah
I mean you could make an argument that our lineup is probably Jameer, JJ, Turk, Ryno, and Dwight. I think. Although if Gil keeps playing good(dude if you get the percentage up you would be an uber beast) either he or Jameer at the point is acceptable.
Maybe it’s just a case of Hedo getting more used to Bass in the offense. I’m surpised by the bad D though. I don’t mind having a bench that can win us the games. From Schuhmann article “Of their new five-man units, the one with the next most minutes together (35) is Nelson, J.J. Redick, Jason Richardson, Turkoglu and Howard. That unit has been outscored by 12.3 points per 100 possessions, mostly because it’s been beyond awful defensively, allowing 128.4.”
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Anderson's per-minute stats are at least comparable to Murphy at the same age
Per 36 minutes at age 21:
Anderson: 19.3 PTS, 8.0 REB
Murphy: 11.9 PTS, 8.0 REB
At age 22:
Anderson: 17.8 PTS, 8.7 REB
Murphy: 13.2 PTS, 8.3 REB
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Alas
I think the Pacers will make the playoffs. They’re just better than anyone below them apart from maybe the Bucks.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 4:01 AM EST up reply actions
I agree but don't we need at least an injury insurance?
or we could deal with that if it would (lnock on wood) ever happened ?
Either way, I’m on the “don’t trade JJ” camp.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Injury insurance is nice
But if he gets injured, Gortat or no Gortat, we are screwed right up the turnpike anyways.
True
But if Dwight does get injured can he at least wait till next season so we can try and win the lottery again?? Be like the Spurs. Just kidding.
Yeah, but I would like Kyrie Irving on our team!
Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are special in their own ways. OK?
All reports seem to say that he is going stay one more year.
Injured ankle and the potential lockout. Well I have seen those reports.
Exactly, so if Dwight was hurt next season, we would be a lottery team for the 2012 draft
Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are special in their own ways. OK?
It really depends on what the definition of a "warm body" is. If we are willing to take just a "serviceable" big man, the question is how high or low we regard that warm body description?
Let’s not forget that – for whatever its worth – we matched Gortat’s offer to get somebody at that level to back-up Dwight. By saying that we need only a less quality big man to back him up, aren’t we admitting that move was not warranted?
On a separate not, we cannot disregard that we need an insurance policy for the center position when Dwight is in foul trouble – or simply out of commission – the way Gortat performed in the last two seasons. Granted that Dwight is young and – has been – injury free, but we cannot treat our superstar as a work-horse rather than a show-horse, which he is.
In conclusion, the aforementioned makes trading Gortat that much more problematic. But considering where we are now, I cannot think of trading J.J. – although never say never – except for a player of long-term value, since that is what J.J. is.
Matching Gortat
Was to keep an asset and not let it walk for nothing. They ended up getting Jason Richardson and Earl “EARL CLARK?!?!?!?!?!?” Clark out of him. And Turk returned home. Plus the corpse that was Vince Carter.
Huh? Teams don't match offers just to keep assets because they are ballooning their payroll while doing that.
Make no mistake that we kept Gortat because he performed well when we did not have the services of Dwight. Keeping an asset was an after thought and by no means to be traded without due diligence for a replacement. And I appreciate if you refer to a former player – who did the best that he could while here – with proper deference.
I disagree
while we kept Gortat because of his ability, I do believe that the intention was never to keep him the entire length of his contract. However I do agree with not bad mouthing Carter, I thought he did a good job here and I was sorry it didn’t work out.
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
Yes and no.
I really thoiught he could have got Hilton Armstrong from Washington. That is the yes part. No as in when you have the best center in the world you need to surround him with talent, not worry about his backup. If he goes down we were screwed anyways, Gortat or no Gortat. For an illustration, the Colts don’t worry about Peyton Mannings’ backup. They put as many players next to him as possible. That is almost the same scenario we are in. Got to put good pieces around Dwight.
I refer you to the following quote from my original post.
“Granted that Dwight is young and – has been – injury free, but we cannot treat our superstar as a work-horse rather than a show-horse, which he is”.
You and MagicMark have this tendency of taking parts of my posts, and in the process miss the broader picture which I am trying to present.
I did agree with you
Yes it would have been nice to grab a replacement, I was just saying that in grand scheme of things I believe it was more important to worry about the firepower next to Dwight in stead of having an elite backup. I have the opposite view. He is 25. He is a workhorse. That was my view. But I understand yours.
Otis Smith
Basically said that he kept Gortat because he was not going to let an asset go and get nothing in return. Word for word those exact things. I actually don’t believe Vince did the best he could while he was here. I thought Pietrus did, Gortat did, and Rashard did. Love all three and will remember all that they did. However I will not, nor will I ever be convinced, that Vince Carter tried the best. Too many times he casually walked through games. I defended him up until the ECF. I can not trust a player who says “I got your guys backs” and doesn’t deliver. Says it again, and does not deliver again. If you want to believe that, that is ok. I will not.
Well that is your opinion
But unless you know of him deliberately not trying to deliver, I will just take it for what it is. We wanted something he couldn’t give us, a go to scorer.
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
Don't the person
Supposedly came off as a nice guy. Did good stuff for New Jersey while they were rebuilding. I just believe that maybe all the losing sapped some fire from him. I wanted him to be more Kobeish than a second round pick out of Marshall just trying to fit in. Maybe he needed to be more confrontational. I don’t know.
He tries being a big scorer.
That lasted two and a half months, and it was a disaster. Then he played within himself, and was a very efficient scorer for an entire season.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
He was he who was
He’s not Kobe, he’s never been Kobe, he’ll never be Kobe. You may as well criticise Nelson for not being Steve Nash or Turk for not being LeBron James.
I never got the feeling Carter wasn’t trying. He just wasn’t good enough to succeed. I don’t get the need to assassinate guys’ characters because of poor performance.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 4:05 AM EST up reply actions
As a side note
Anyone notice are defense is actually our defense has forced every team except Cleveland to shoot less than their normal percentage? Just saying, our defense is gonna be fine.
I would normally agree with you
Normally. However, they have played some pretty good competition. Seriously. Hawks, Mavs, Spurs, and Celtics in one week. The first two on a back to back. By the All Star break don’t be surprised if this is the number one defensive team yet again.
I would be very surprised
Not that they aren’t capable, just in that short of time to make up that many points on some really good defensive teams like Boston would be amazingly difficult.
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
I will be shocked
If they get back to being the #1 defensive team. But as long as they stay top 5 like they were before the trade (and they haven’t dropped yet, which is encouraging) I will be very happy.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 6, 2011 4:07 AM EST up reply actions
I could lose either J Rich or JJ or Bass or Ryan if it was big who would play PF and C, equaling JJ’s minutes (like 26) and unique contribution (TS%, Passing, so, someone down low with very high Blks, Rebs, versatility). Luis Scola is a kind of big man like that who comes to mind, who I think could be an amazing PF and backup C with Dwight. He is a vet already but doesnt seem slowing and has fewer nba seasons than age suggests, and yet still seems good to go for some more seasons with 20+ minutes (unlike Camby maybe) and has amazing versatility as a post player.
I think our chance at getting Luis Scola
May have left when we trade Gortat. Although even at that I don’t see Houston trading us Scola and Martin for Gortat and Carter. Although I could be wrong. Not their GM.
difficult but...
what about troy murphy? 1 year 11 million… not sure though who we can trade for him but salary wise, jrich. stretches the floor if he plays PF, a good rebounder if he plays C and hes not getting playing time.
He's not a center.
We need a center.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Orlando Pinstriped Post
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
