Gilbert Arenas Struggles to Adjust to Orlando Magic
by Evan Dunlap on Jan 20, 2011 8:02 AM EST
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None of the players the Orlando Magic acquired on December 18th have as high a profile as Gilbert Arenas, yet none has disappointed more since joining the team. Following last night's 1-of-4 shooting performance against the Philadelphia 76ers, in which he played a team-low 13 minutes, Arenas' field-goal shooting with Orlando stands at an icy 35.6 percent. But the low success rate hasn't deterred Arenas from shooting once every 2.4 minutes.
Arenas appeared to have turned a corner three weeks ago, when he authored three consecutive efficient, double-digit scoring performances, combining for 43 points on 17-of-36 shooting, with 8 three-pointers. In the eight games since, however, he's shot 20-of-61 (32.8 percent) from the floor, and 7-of-26 (26.9 percent) from three-point range.
The slump extends beyond merely his shooting. In the same eight games, Arenas has tallied 22 assists to 14 turnovers, which simply isn't acceptable for a backup point guard, even in an offense like Orlando's, which doesn't result in many assists.
Perhaps "slump" isn't the best word to use, though; perhaps this is simply how Arenas will play from here on out. That's a grim possibility, but one worth considering, given his iffy-to-outright-awful shot selection and utter lack of elevation on his jumper. Arenas' 32-of-83 (38.6 percent) mark on two-point baskets since joining the Magic tells a pretty compelling story here. Simply boosting that figure to 43.7 percent, which he notched prior to last season's suspension, would be a small victory. But it'd also be far too low to justify the sheer frequency with which he shoots.
Coach Stan Van Gundy took responsiblilty for Arenas' rough patch after the Magic victory last night:
And he and I have to, I think, sit down and talk and try to get a better understanding of each other and what’s going on, because right now I think Gil’s not playing with a great deal of enthusiasm. I don’t think he’s enjoying playing. And I think the way I’m coaching him is a big reason.
Whatever the reason for Arenas' decline to sub-D-League productivity, it's clear that Orlando needs him to shape up before the season's out. Meeting with Van Gundy and getting into the weight room, which he neglected during his suspension, may help. A healthy Arenas, or one who simply makes better decisions, would give the Magic yet another offensive weapon with which to attack the East's other stout defenses.
And apologies if this post reminds you of something I've written before, as I'd like to avoid redundancy as much as possible here. But Arenas' slow go of it in Orlando to date, in conjunction with his high salary and health concerns, make him a target for scrutiny.
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His drives are also an awful sight.
But we really need this guy to get better.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
We needed to put Anderson and Bass in.
Don’t know how Rashard would have felt making 20 mil on the bench. had to clear space for those two.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Who cares how Rashard would've felt?
I’m more concerned how Dwight will feel down the road if the Magic remain saddled with Arenas contract, which is significantly more oppressive than even Rashard’s.
Locker room distraction
Rashard is a trooper and I doubt he would have done that, but can’t have a locker room distraction. Look at Denver.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Look, if we're going to have a ridiculously bad contract sitting on the bench and coming in for backup minutes,
I’d much rather it be Lewis. His contract is shorter, and he’s not playing nearly as awfully as Arenas (Rashard looked great during the winning streak, and he’s played pretty well with increased usage in Washington). Who says Rashard couldn’t be Anderson’s backup? It’d be nice to have any frontcourt depth at all instead of FOUR point guards.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
So who was going to tell Rashard to be a backup?
He has already sacrificed a lot for this team. This team asked him to change postitions, take less shots, learn to play defense, keep taking diminished roles, answer questions about a contract the Magic front office offered. What more could they have asked out of the guy. And seriously nobody complained about Gil during the winning streak. Again, where you can play Anderson and Bass if you still have Lewis? The whole point of getting rid of Lewis was to get those two more minutes because they are better players.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Uh, SVG was going to tell him?
Lewis is the ultimate team player. All he wanted to do was to do whatever was best for the team, which is why he did all of the other things without question. What’s one more thing?
Bass would be the backup C. I completely disagree that he needs more minutes. I wish he got less minutes and totally swapped out of the starting lineup.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Bass Produces more than Rashard in about 10 minutes less.
Look I like Rashard but his time was done here. If you hate Bass than that is fine. But stats wise and eye ball wise, he is better than Rashard right now. Is more efficient and a better rebounder. Rashard is playing good because he is getting more shot attempts. What suggests that Bass should not have more minutes? Aside from your hatred of him.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
The fact that he's looking to establish his shot to the detriment of the rest of the starting unit?
Also his failures on defense? Also the fact that his shot isn’t falling, despite him grinding the offensive flow to a halt in order to shoot? He’s 17-52 (32.7%) over this skid, starting from the New Orleans game. Look, the starting group is playing poorly right now. The 1st quarter is a nightmare for the Magic right now. To me, all signs point to Bass. Either that, or everyone else is individually terrible, and we all know that is not the case.
And I’m sorry, but nothing you’re going to say is going to convince me that the Arenas/Lewis trade is a success. Arenas has been bad, is bad, and will continue to be bad. Who was complaining about him during the winning streak? Me. I was.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
lewis was bad as well.
This team has stunk in first halves since the trade. You are blaiming Bass because you hate him. Yes he has struggled over the last 6 games or so. Guess what, everyone except Dwight, Ryan Anderson, and mostly Jason Richardson are playing good. That is it. Everyone else is struggling. To blame Bass makes no sense. And Lewis was absolutely horrific. Don’t know what Magic games you were watching. At least Gil stinks as a backup and we don’t lost games because of him.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I don't hate Bass, and I have never said that I do. Don't put words in my mouth.
I stand by the fact that if the Magic are forced to have an overwhelmingly overpaid player coming off the bench, I would rather it be Lewis than Arenas, and Lewis’s contract is shorter.
Fin.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Lewis wasn't "absolutely horrific".
He had a vanishing role in the offense with the continued insistence on Vince being aggressive and Dwight demanding more touches. He had brought his 3-point shooting percentage up to about 40% after a slow start (just like JJ). And he was a better defender than Bass or Ryan.
The point was and still is that we could’ve waited to see if Hedo’s chemistry with Dwight might not have been the only thing that could’ve remained. He and Rashard played well together too, and there was literally no urgency to make that Arenas trade since no other GM in their right mind wanted him. Otis made the move because he’s friends with Arenas, and that’s the worst way to run a professional sports team.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 20, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Truth.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
Between Bass playing the 5 as a backup to Dwight, and Lewis’ ability to play 3 off the bench, there would have been minutes for him. And if he was bad for the team or complained, then we know the Wizards deal is always there.
Hope Arenas can turn it around, because right now acquiring him might be going down as the stupidest thing Smith has ever done.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 20, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...that trade so far is not looking good at all...
I hope Arenas can turn it around too….he looks confused out there…
"I got WAY too many cars in my driveway.."
Orlando Native(By way of Parramore)
I wrote this in the midseason review post, but it seems more appropriate here.
These are some of Duhon’s per-36 stats for this season, with Arenas’s stats in (parentheses). The stats are updated to reflect the Philly game.
Assists: 5.4 (Arenas – 6.6)
Turnovers: 3.2 (3.9)
FG%: 43.2 (35.6)
3FG%: 32.4 (31.7)
TS%: 50.7 (44.8)
Offensive rating: 90 (90)
Defense rating: 107 (101)
Again, Arenas is a little better about assists, but he’s also worse about turnovers and shooting. Even worse, Arenas’s inability to drive is grinding the offense to a halt. In the Philly game, the offense looked just as bad during Arenas’s 13 minutes as if it had been Duhon running the team. It is simply not a difference in skill level that is worth nearly $15 million more per season for this and the next three seasons.
The common excuses for Arenas apologists are that he just needs to get healthy, or that he’s just adjusting to the Magic offense, or that he should start(?!), or that his high ceiling justifies patience. Guess what?
He’s been here for 16 games now. That’s 20% of the season. He should not be looking this bad at this point. His inability to adjust by now is unacceptable. It’s not a small sample size anymore; it’s just terrible.
His knees are ruined for life. He will never be the same health-wise. He is never going to be healthy enough to be the player that he was, or apparently anywhere even in the same zip code. His ceiling is no longer high. Frighteningly, Evan is right. This isn’t a “slump”. His ceiling probably is what we’re seeing now, which is awful.
…and I don’t even want to talk about his defense.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 8:52 AM EST reply actions
I don't agree
Arenas has had some good games this year with Washington, and a couple with Orlando (22 and 11 dimes off the bench). He has shown glimpses of being able to play well still.
If you read the article on Orlando Sentinel, it seems that Arenas is having a hard time learning SVG’s expectations from the PG position. I believe his recent struggles are more from the fact that he is still adjusting to SVG’s playbook and expectations, and less from the fact that he is washed up and done. The guy still has game, just give him some time to get used to what SVG wants.
by supermantotherescue on Jan 20, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Just when I was wondering...
if it was possible that he was even more of a liability than Duhon on 100x the salary.
We have Clark Kent and Superman on the same team!
Ryno's back and doing his thing!
Turkish Jordan is back and looking like a stud again!
Meer being Stan's extension on the court!
Don't worry guys, he's a cool dude. Otis told me so.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Gil isn't right...
He gets absolutely NO spring or lift. Did you see him get that layup blocked by Lou Williams last night?
He needs to spend time on the treadmill and in the weight room. He also needs to spend time learning the offense.
He has a lot of work to do. bbm covers eyes face
I view Gil like this..
The other guys from the trade are certainly playing great, and luckily we still have Jameer.
Since we’re not counting on him to start or carry the offensive load, I view Gil as a potential bonus sitting there on the bench…if he finds a spark by the playoffs, great, another guy who could go off on a given night…if not, the team has backcourt depth moreso than anywhere on the floor, so I can live with things if he doesn’t work out.
That said, nobody wants a high priced backup point guard playing this poorly, and I understand that. Does it make me inclined to say we’d be better off with Rashard? No. A hidden benefit of that trade was simply freeing up minutes for Ryan Anderson, who has been alot more productive than Rashard in Orlando this season. With the other trades I don’t think the team misses him. I’d rather have the potential, no matter how slim, of a rejuvenated Gil than to still have Rashard around.
Yeah.... except that trading Marcin away but keeping Rashard still would have opened up more minutes for Ryan regardless of this trade
by gatorboi352 on Jan 20, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
marginal minutes.. not a lot.. certainly not the level he's getting now, which is basically 6th man minutes
At worse him and Bass still have to fight it out for the backup spot. I really don’t like Ryan in the C position, it’s only makeshift for him.
But going back to GIl – certainly he’s regressed in both ends, and it looks physical-related. He’s barely elevating in layups, which seems to be persuading him to settle for jump shots. But I think both SVG and Gil know how much is at stake here, if he’s on fire… the team will put everyone on the East on notice. You can almost sense it in their words, it’s struggle street for him, SVG isn’t getting what he wants from his backup PG (as has been the case all year).
Bass would've played the back-up C minutes.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Look at it this way
25 minutes for Anderson at PF
10 minutes for Bass at C
15 minutes for Bass at PF
8 minutes for Lewis at PF
13 minutes for Lewis at SF (with the second unit as a backup to Turk)
There were enough minutes for everyone.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 20, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
The minutes he'd take at SF would mean less minutes for JRich. Which probably means Stan would leave him on the 2 for longer.
Meaning less minutes for JJ as well. Everyone’s affected. Hedo also gets less productivity since he won’t be playing the 4.
And Stan’s not the kind of coach to split the minutes by the detail. He goes with who’s playing good defense and has the hot hand.
I don't think Hedo is a good matchup at the 4 so I'm OK with that
And Lewis would give us another guy to get hot and play some D. Not that wing depth is exactly our problem, admittedly.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 21, 2011 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
Gil needs to get hot the second half of the season.
And then we need to trade him and his bloated contract away. Put ourselves in the best possible position financially this off-season.
lol
There’s only one GM in the league who’ll trade for Arenas.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 20, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
*facepalm*
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 21, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
He needs to get in shape..
Thats it.. he doesnt look athletic at all to me, and seems out of it when he is on the floor.. he cant shoot, cant drive, and cant defend. Most of that is because he has lost his athleticism because of not putting in the time to get back in shape.
The good thing about Stan is he does not care
He will yank anyone real quick, and thats exactly what’s going on here.
by gatorboi352 on Jan 20, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
He looks FAT
I don’t think it’s as much the knee as much as not being overweight.
I think it's the knees.
He seems to run in mostly straight lines without much ability to make quick, start and stop type cuts.
It's just our luck.
We must always have at least one player who is incredibly overpaid but plays like garbage. I was always a defender of Lewis for the most part, but Arenas really has to show me something because he’s turning into a black hole out there.
Luckily, we have another half of a season to play to see if things improve. Stan’s a good coach and I think they’ll fix something, but he can’t work miracles.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
I trust it will get better too. I completely accept that it's growing pains right now adjusting to SVG's system.
If Arenas can get a handle on that and cut the turnovers, I think he has a lot to offer as a backup pg who can push the pace and initiate really good ball movement. That was my first impression of him right after the trade when SVG was just letting the new guys play.
But Arenas will still have an absurdly horrendous contract, which in my mind should be mentioned every time his name comes up in any conversation. It’s an embarrassment.
I think he is actually thinking too much out there.
Like SVG said he was just playing free before. I think SVG might need to bite his toungue when Gil is on the court and just not look at all. Just let him run and push the ball up the court. Put a blind fold on, and just let Gil be Gil.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
by Mateo9399 on Jan 20, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100% this is the majority of the problem, but I also think it's 100% the wrong tack to take
You’re right. He’s definitely playing not to screw up right now. He’s totally in his head.
However, backing off now means you get an undisciplined guy that plays outside the system. That might be easier today and it might make Gil feel better for a while, but it plants a cancer on the rest of the team.
I firmly believe you stick with it. You may change your tone as needed and adjust confrontations to accommodate a player’s personality, but you still have to get him to buy into the system and play within it. I think that Stan has the ability to do that. Gil can’t be a BIGGER head case than Rafer Alston and he figured it out.
By sticking with it, it’s difficult on Gil for a while but far better for him and the team in the long run. And given the length of his contract, the long run is important.
Y'know, for kids.
This, plus one more thing.
In a video on the Sentinal blog, Arenas mentions that he’s used to playing 40 mins, where he can find his groove and pick his spots for when to be aggressive…but now he doesn’t get nearly as many minutes, so he’s got to get used to having to just go out and be aggressive from the get go.
I think those are tough mental hurdles to overcome, becoming comfortable in the system and going from bench to full-speed in less minutes, but neither are impossible. There’s no “switch” for it, and it will take time and effort. Let’s hope he’s up to the task.
I also would like to see him get to the weightroom a bit. strengthening his legs/knees would only help him build confidence about what he can do on the floor physically (help him feel better about being aggressive) and any increase in elevation on his jumpshot could really help his shooting.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 20, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
but remember Alston played for SVG before in Miami, so he was able to get used to our system much faster
by supermantotherescue on Jan 20, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, definitely
I don’t expect Arenas to learn as quickly in Orlando as Rafer did because he doesn’t have that background. I meant more in the grand scheme of things, between Miami and Orlando, Alston got there.
It should also be noted that Rafer was the starter when he arrived after Jameer’s injury so he had the confidence of minutes and more time on the floor to learn. (And please don’t read that to mean I think Arenas should start – I don’t – but it’s ANOTHER factor in the difference between the 2 learning curves).
Y'know, for kids.
Yup
It’s definitely a lot harder for Gilbert to learn the system, especially when he doesn’t know how many minutes he will play on a given night.
Lots of pressure, but it seems like Gilbert has the personality to be able to overcome it and start producing in the near future (hopefully)
by supermantotherescue on Jan 21, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I am never going to be excited about the Arenas trade with that contract.
Unless he starts having close to the impact that Rashard had his first two years here in Orlando, then it’s still a bad move from a management standpoint in my view. Freeing up time for Anderson and Bass, whatever. Right now we have Bass playing back-up C minutes, so he could’ve done that with Rashard and Ryan splitting the 4 minutes.
I’m just really worried about the future of the team, because I still can’t see the team as presently constructed winning a title. Lucrative, long-term contracts on players that are not worth it.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Bass still wouldnt have the minutes he earned.
He would basically play Gortat’s 15 minutes. Again Bass and Anderson have earned to play about 30 minutes each. With Rashard here that would never have happened.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Also this quote is interesting.
“This isn’t an easy adjustment for anyone,‘’ Van Gundy said. "When Rafer (Alston) came in (two seasons ago), he knew I was an A-hole. He was used to it. When Gil first came, he was playing well, and we weren’t putting a lot on him. He was playing free. But the more we put on him, the harder it’s been. I’m not saying it’s my fault, but it’s my responsibility to help make it work.’’
I find it amusing that Van Gundy thinks Arenas problems are because Stan is an “A-hole”.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
We need to find out what shoes he wore for the Cleveland game.
"It's difficult to win when you're outscored in every quarter." -Bill Walton
by betterthanburke on Jan 20, 2011 12:16 PM EST reply actions
He wore the "Playing the Worst Team In The League" shoes.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 12:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think he was just making a joke...
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 20, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Arenas is ok as a backup PG.
And to think a couple of weeks ago, some were saying SVG should consider promoting Arenas to the starting lineup.
I hope his play improves, but in the meantime I’ll secretly wonder what if Otis had kept Rashard, so we could’ve seen Hedo+Rashard play together again.
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
Caracas, Venezuela.
by North of the South on Jan 20, 2011 1:51 PM EST reply actions
He had to find a way for more minutes for Bass and Anderson.
They are better players as of right now than Rashard Lewis.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Why couldn't Bass play back-up center?
He hasn’t exactly thrived in the starting unit. And as North of the South said, it’s possible that Rashard playing w/ Hedo again could’ve helped him out. He often seemed lost in the offense with Vince as the second option.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
He's been a black hole the entire time.
It’s been well known that I don’t like Bass. I just don’t think he’s a smart player at all, and I’m tired of seeing him set picks while someone is trying to deliver a post entry pass into Dwight, or post up next to Dwight, or muscle up bad shots instead of passing. Mr. Dunlap posted something a few weeks back asking if his torrid long 2-point jumper shooting would remain efficient enough to warrant heavy minutes. Well, he’s fallen back down to Earth and the answer to me is no. The dude still has problems with team defensive schemes, and I don’t know how much better he will ever be when he drops statements about how he prefers guarding centers because it means he doesn’t have to move around as much.
I would’ve rather traded Bass to a team that could use a mindless ox with a good jump shot than traded Rashard away for a worse contract and a worse player.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 20, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with this.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
So you are saying you are letting personal bias get into your opinion.
Well than that is your opinion. Anderson looks better because he shoots 3’s. Bass shoots 2’s. Hence if they make the same amount of shots, Anderson will have more points. Bass is not playing bad. He had a double double last night. He is still shooting around 50% if I am not mistaken. Instead of letting personal bias get in your watch the games and make sound judgement based off stats and what you see. Bass is not a mindless ox. That is just stupid. He is a hard worker. Does a lot of dirty work. And gives 100% effort. Yes he makes mistakes, but you know Ryan Anderson jacks up 30’ 3’s with Dwight wide open in front of him. Again take your emotion out of it and see that have their strenghts and weaknesses. Trading Rashard was a good move.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Trading Rashard for Arenas was not a good move.
Trading him for someone with at the very worst as bad of a contract could have been good. But for someone with an even worse contract? No, that is not good management.
As far as my personal opinion, yeah, I don’t like dumb players. And Bass is a dumb basketball player. He does not grasp complex team schemes offensively or defensively, and he has absolutely no idea what to do with the ball other than shoot it when it gets passed to him. These are things that I’ve noticed while watching games, and looking at stats. He’s improved as far as rebounding this year, and that’s great. But he has this idea wrapped up in his head that he’s the #1 option when he’s the #5 option out of our starting line-up, and now his efficiency that he had earlier this year is proving to be unsustainable. This is on top of his documented defensive rotation issues.
Every player makes mistakes. However, it’s a matter of limiting those mistakes, and not making the same mistakes over and over again that makes a player valuable. Comparing Anderson’s tendency to sometimes shoot an open 3 instead of pass it to Dwight (which is honestly just as efficient of a shot as Dwight inside) to Bass’ continuing rotation issues or his ongoing issues fitting in with the offense is silly.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Jan 20, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then why was SVG playing him ahead of Anderson??
I will defer to SVG instead of fans. Obviously you hate Bass. So there is no point in arguing or debating with you. You have your opinion. I will go with my eyes and season stats for Bass.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
So for 30 games he was a beast
And now he struggles for 10 games and he sucks? He is injured right Fans will be fans I guess.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Go back to ED's article about Bass maintaining those numbers.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Mateo, is your last name Polega?
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 20, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
He's nothing like that dude.
I will say though that I think Stan was trying to get the team acquainted with the whole “traditional” line-up, which was why Bass was getting so much PT. I reckon part of that was people higher up than Stan helping suggest it since, y’know, we’re paying this guy money to do more than be the 12th man on the team like he was last year.
Also, he was playing well earlier this season. He’s regressed a lot lately though, almost to Bass from last year, which again brings into question if this is the real Bass or if the first 20ish games featured the real Bass.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Wow
I prefer Ryan Anderson to Bass so no I’m not Polega. But the way he was talking about Bass, had to defend him. He went put the work and made himself a better player. Without him we lose Boston on Christmas. We are fortunate to have two studs at PF. They play different styles. But both are effective. Mindless ox??? Come on man. He obviously is smart enough to play basketball and get paid for it unlike us “intelligent” people who work 8-5 everyday.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I have absolutely no idea how intelligent he is off the court.
But on the court, he is not an intelligent player. I don’t see how anyone can make the claim that he is. He basically is just a very strong, very athletic player with an inflated sense of his own value who makes the same mistakes that I see players make during pick-up games at the local park.
He is a good, hard worker. But so was Pat Burke, and I don’t miss him at all on the team. I want someone who doesn’t try to set screens next to players who are trying to deliver entry passes to Dwight.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Appreciate you taking the Polega jab in stride and good humor.
You were just starting to lean heavily in the defend-Bass direction. Sorry if I offended.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 20, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with athletic ability
If it did, Stephen Hawking would be the GOAT…
by eltharion_doa on Jan 20, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Final point I forgot to mention.
I would’ve rather traded Bass for a better back-up PG than Arenas with a comparable contract to Bass than taking Gilbert’s horrible contract. A back-up big man would’ve then been something Otis could’ve pursued from there (which is what we still need now anyways, so that doesn’t change anything).
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
So you hate Bass so much that you want to trade a big for a small?
Step back from the ledge and stop Bass hating. The guy is not a mindless ox, and he played a big role in us winning 9 straight. He is also quite inexpensive.
Ideally he and RA split minutes in half, and we are looking pretty good. We just need one more big. We lose Bass, we would have needed 2 more bigs and that trade is probably not out there.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
I prefer Lewis to Bass.
We traded Lewis, a 6’10" player, for Arenas, a 6’3" player. So I guess Otis “hated” Lewis so much he traded a big for an even more expensive small? And Bass played a role in us winning 9 straight, while Lewis played a role in us starting 15-4. What’s your point? Think through things here.
We would’ve been left with a big rotation of Dwight, Rashard, Anderson, and Clark/Allen/Whoever We Pick Up Via Trade Or Waivers/Buy-Out, with a PG rotation of Jameer and Someone Moderately Priced That’s Better Than Arenas And Duhon. I prefer that to this salary cap trainwreck we have currently, but that’s just me.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
No, I agree
I don’t think Orlando has got the best it could out of the trade, and I think Smith getting Arenas is the biggest part of that.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 20, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
oh, so with Rashard who was aging at a rapid pace and signed to make more and more money..
Thats not a salary cap trainwreck? Really? I’ll take Gil all day at point over Raw Lew, who was absolutely terrible. It’s so funny how people overreact over Gil when we all knew he would not be in top form for a few months minimum.
You prefer Lewis to Bass. A guy who makes the max versus a physical player who has had a better season at a fraction of the cost. Yet that is not a salary cap trainwreck…lol..ok. I’m still amazed someone took Lewis to be honest.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
It shouldn't take "a few months minimum" for an nba player to get into game shape, especially not two months in to the season.
Ok so maybe Bass was outpeforming Lewis while they were both here, but now instead of getting virtually no production from Lewis, we are getting basically no production from Arenas, whose contract is worse and for a year longer.
he looked in shape enough
when he played against the Magic last…
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
Oddly enough his +/- stat looks great
Arenas leads Orlando in the +/- stat. With him on the court Orlando gets a 0.259 point lead per minute. When Nelson is on the court that number drops to 0.086. Of course this doesn´t mean Arenas is playing better than Nelson, which he isn’t. But it’s interesting that despite his poor numbers he isn’t hurting the team.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22010&split=9&team=Magic
I'm inclined to believe that this is because Nelson is saddled with starting with Bass,
whereas Arenas benefits from playing with Anderson much of the time.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
He was playing with a hot Redick and RA coming around. Meer was playing with an adjusting Richardson and a Declining Bass.
Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are special in their own ways. OK?
yeap, that's a sound theory.
Still, Gil´s +/- is better than Anderson´s or Reddick´s lol! Probably +/- is not exactly the most accurate stat to measure game impact, Dwight is around 0.119.
+/- is a very noisy individual stat
Not great for evaluating individual players in limited minutes over a few games. It works much better for lineups, but I wouldn’t look at individual +/- to give you much insight into Gilbert’s play this year.
by Swami Digital on Jan 20, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
We obviously need to edit his player profile, making him a Shooting Guard, thus increasing his overall rating to an 86.
Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are special in their own ways. OK?
My take:
Gil felt that he had something to prove when he came in to the league, and boy did he. But then he was able to get 20 on an off-night, using his creativity to score from crazy angles and contortions. But now, he is unable to do that (the knees, fitness, etc) so he’s got to change again- into a wily veteran who can pick his spots.
This will take some time. Fitness first. Basketball IQ and learning the system second. Come Easter, he’ll show flashes of his old self, but alas, he’s not able to sustain it over more than about 20 minutes.
When you arrive at a fork in the road, take it. (Otis took it!)
Yogi Berra
Do you really think he'll do this, though? Change into a wiley veteran who can pick his spots?
Not everyone has the maturity to do what MJ/Kobe did, and add an entire new repetoire of low-post fade-away moves to their bag of tricks because other moves are becoming more difficult.
I think you are right on track about his early career, but I am not sure that Gil has the work ethic, etc., to get done what he needs to at this point.
All of the best sigs are taken.
Gilbert says he needs more minutes, which in a way makes sense,
but he does have to produce a bit in order to get them.And try to look like he’s playing some D.
I would still give him a little time and I don’t even wanna hear about Duhon.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Agree
We kept playing Carter, Lewis and Q Rich for ages when they were playing lame. If we get this guy going it would be HUGE for this team. Gil said he was sort of nervous thinking in making no mistakes rather than focusing on his game. It is harder to shoot when you know that if you miss you are taken out of the game. They should guarantee him at least 20 mins per game for 10 games, and see what he can do. We did it for Q Rich, we should do it for him.
by Leandro. on Jan 20, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yup
Arenas still has shown glimpses of being a pretty good player..here’s a look at games that stand out from this year
Nov 13 vs. Chicago: 11/22, 7 threes, 30 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists
Nov 16 vs. Toronto: 7/14, 3 threes, 20 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists
Nov 21 vs. Detroit: 9/18, 1 threes, 19 points, 4 rebounds, 16 assists
Nov 25 vs. Atlanta: 7/18, 4 threes, 21 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assists
Nov 27 vs. Orlando: 9/23, 1 three, 31 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists
Nov 29 vs. Miami: 9/21, 3 threes, 23 points, 5 rebounds, 7 assists
Dec 28 vs. Cleveland: 8/15, 5 threes, 22 points, 6 rebounds, 11 assists
If he could perform that well earlier in the season, he should be able to put up those numbers for us. He just has to learn the system and learn to be more aggressive since he won’t be playing 40 minutes a game like he did in Washington
by supermantotherescue on Jan 21, 2011 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
I will say again
Gilbert doesn’t necessarily just need more time in the Magic system, but more time and confidence on the court. I think he can play well for us, I just don’t see how we can get to that point. We have Nelson, Gilbert, Redick, and Richardson as our guards. That is tough to take minutes from that group if you are Arenas. Redick has been great, Richardson is playing well (at least offensively), and Nelson is Nelson. My concern is will Gilbert be better than the guy he ends up taking minutes from outside of backup PG minutes?
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Volume shooter much?
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Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
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I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
Right on point, Evan
I’m not good on stats, but I DO appreciate them and learn a lot from them. Everything I see about Arenas sends warning signals to all corners of the World!
I believe in trends, and what I see is indeed grim. Arenas started slow, then seemed to find his grove and thrive within the Magic system. However, he peaked a few games back and now is definitely DOWN! If a player is improving, that player trends UP, or reaches a plateau, but surely does NOT trend DOWN…
With each passing game, Arenas looks more and more pasive, hesitant, even indiferent. His shot lacks height; his shot selection getting worse by the minute; and even easy layups are now a common failure. He still has great hands and can swipe balls out of anyone, but his lateral movement is shot, so he can’t chase ANYONE around, which in turn creates defensive HOLES that someone else HAS to coverup… no wonder Howard is going so much to the front court to cover guys! His “presence” is affecting the Magic defense too!
To me, is obvious that Arenas is a bust. It’s not only a matter of physical form, or lack of; it’s also MENTAL. It requires humility; the ability to recognize ones limitations; but it also requires discipline and commitment to do WHATEVER is necesary to FIT IN; to fill the NEEDS of his present Team. This is very hard for ANY player; much more so for someone of his caliber and AGE! I do not see these qualities in Arenas…
Now, the question remains… what do we DO about it? Unless something TANGIBLE comes out of the “conversation” between Stan and Arenas, the Magic have to consider some HARD questions…
Since no one else has mentioned this, I’ll go right to it: Do we involve Arenas in some kind of deal involving other players and teams; can this even be DONE at this stage of the season?
Up not down anyone. Holes has mental whatever. Fit in needs. Do tangible do. Done!
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
Hello, handsome, is that a ten-gallon hat or are you just enjoying the show?
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Jan 21, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Micromanaged Offense
Do any of you think Stan calls too many our offense plays from the sideline? Not looking to get attacked by anyone on here, just something i noticed.
No, because it's organization (with variety) that wins in the playoffs.
We saw how glorified street ball worked out with the Warriors and the Nelson-coached Mavs. And we saw how clumsy and predictable offense worked out for the Cavs. And we saw how a bunch of isolation plays worked out for Atlanta. I’m glad SVG is so involved in creating a system for success.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 20, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I think SVG just needs to let Gil run wild
Again it is what he is best at. Letting him do his thing worked when first got here. I agree with you, it is not like he would be closing games anyways. I also think that street ball works…..if you have a dominant defender to make up for the defensive lapses of everyone else. Wouldn’t you know, Orlando has the best defender in the whole world at this moment. So run and gun can work, if you have Dwight Howard. I mean it is all the Lakers did during the 80’s. I don’t get why it doesn’t work. None of those teams had a Dwight Howard type player.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
While I don't really agree with this (if only because it can't work the teams prepare in the playoffs)...
You need to remember that the 2nd unit “street ball” play you are advocating wouldn’t actually have D12 back there erasing mistakes for the vast majority of the time.
Y'know, for kids.
imo we are in a win now mode and that is not a good thing.
it makes otis think we have to fix it right now.in the end it will be our down fall. 2 years ago before we got carter me and a lot of people were saying wait (how ever long it took)for a real all star wing man.we had all other spots covered but a great wing to pair with dwight.now we keep making moves for older or broken washed up players.their is no quick fix now. we will have to wait and see how these guys play in the post season.i’m not sure we make it out of the second round tho i hope i’m proven wrong.
Who were they gonna get??
Wade, LeBron, and Bosh were always going to play together. Melo wants to be in New York. Durant is never leaving. Pierce is in Boston. Roy may never be the same. Houston apparently won’t trade Martin. List is running out of names. Jason Richardson is arguably a top 5 at worst top 10 shooting guard. Otis Smit paired him with Dwight. Turk is the guy who waves the wand and makes everything function. Everyone Keeps saying don’t go for the quick fix. Well the baby bulls before Rose never did anything. Portland may have to blow up their team. They never made it out of second round. The Magic were three wins from winning a title, how could we expect them to wait. The magic went for it all last year. Didn’t work. They are going for it all again this year. Will it work? Well there is 40 more regular season games and the playoffs to find out.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
well whatever the case back in the day
now we have to be in win now mode. Dwight is soon to be a free agent, and there are going to probably be two dynasty teams formed in the near future that will be increasingly difficult to beat in the post season. I am of course referring to Miami and likely New York in the future with Amare, Melo, and possibly Paul. So I would say now is the time to be in win mode, in another year or so, Miami will have fortified it’s non superstar positions with good role players (unless the cap rules change and a hard cap is put in place). But imagine Miami adding a few Bass type players or Gortats. A mid level exception is going to fill a major need for them and if they can use the bi-annual they can fill a backup role as well. They are already one of the best teams in the east and are only going to get better. I agree with your sentiment, but that sentiment went out the window as soon as the Heat formed their crappy all star team.
I am made of bits of real panther so you know I'm good.
Is Gil the new Vince?
Hearing the same stuff that’s being said about Arenas that was being said about Carter… I don’t think anyone misses Vince now that he’s gone.
To be objective, I do understand that he needs some time to adjust, and honestly, all we need for Gilbert to be is more efficient than he currently is, and to be able to run the offense decently when Jameer goes to the bench. We don’t need him to take over games or be a crazy offensive threat.
I hope the talk with Stan and with some added time his production will improve.
Carter was way more efficient than Arenas has been
With the Magic this season, Carter had a TS% of 55.7%, and last season had a TS% of 55.2%, which includes the very inefficient first three months Carter had last season.
Compare that to Arenas, who has a TS% of 44.8% with the Magic and a TS% of 50.5% with the Wizards before the trade.
I do agree with your second paragraph, though. I really hope somehow Gil can turn things around.
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by Mike from Illinois on Jan 20, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't miss Vince
I think he got a massively unfair load of unjustified criticism when he was here. Jason Richardson is putting up similar numbers, with worse defense, and doesn’t get anywhere near the vitriol Carter got.
Arenas has been bad, but he’s still better than Duhon who just looked unable to function in Orlando’s offense.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 20, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
I miss Vince.
I respect what he did for us, and I appreciated what he brought. Really the only knock on him in my book was the Boston series last year, but a lot of that team were responsible for that lackluster effort. That team took one on the chin and we learned that they had a glass jaw. It took too long to tape them up though so we were stuck in too big a hole to climb out of.
I am made of bits of real panther so you know I'm good.
I don't know what the big deal about our backup PG is.
Yes he makes money. He hasnt lost us any games. And he has been getting the ball to Redick and Anderson. He is having to adjust to a new style of play completely. SVG told him to run, and we get the SA game from him. he needs to run.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
He's making $60 million while we have him.
And he hasn’t won us any games except the Cleveland game. He’s a more aggressive Duhon with a bigger name on a worse contract right now.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Nobody would care about our backup PG
If he had a year left, or was being paid $4m a year.
But he’s a millstone around the neck of the franchise for 3 and a half years, and he’s giving us next to nothing. That’s a problem.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 20, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
albatross is such a better word. lol. Agree on everything!
Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are special in their own ways. OK?
This is a bad trade.
It’s fair to say Arenas needs more time to learn the system, but the fact that he is not in shape and needs to get to the gym at this time of the season, com’on, he is a professional player and should be ready to play and contribute to your team before pre-season.
As suggested above, Lewis’ could still be able to play 4 and some backup 3. Anderson and Bass can always get enough playing time. Everyone has good and bad games, but at this moment, I still don’t believe, taking into account all apects of the game, they are better players than Lewis.
okay, say your right
I don’t necessarily agree or disagree, but really what is your point? Should we fire Otis? What is done is done, disagreeing with it at first is okay, but it really is time to move on. It is irrelevant to play hindsight now, let’s hear how you think the Magic can improve now, rather than worry about what is already done.
I am made of bits of real panther so you know I'm good.
"Should we fire Otis?"
Well, not yet, but how many more chances does he have?
by eltharion_doa on Jan 21, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
It is never irrelevant to hold someone accountable for their mistakes.
And Otis has made mistakes, and Arenas could be the kind of mistake that haunts this organization for years. And if anyone makes a mistake of that gravity, he or she should be fired.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 21, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
A ?
Do any of you think we would have been better off not getting vince that year and kept our team together still having lewis on the bad contract though.I’m just asking do yall believe that moves HAD to be made?
I believe moves did neeed to be made.
For whatever reason, the team we started the year with had lost its Mojo. Pietrus had become uncoachable and jacked up threes (and has been benched by the Suns). Gortat wanted more minutes. Lewis was totally burned out and Vince was no longer half amazing. Bass and Anderson needed more minutes and the Magic needed better 3-point shooters. Moves had to be made. The last puzzle is Arenas and if he can get his “mind right”. He is playing scared and hopefully a heart-to-heart with Stan will lead to better play by Gil.
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
Hello, handsome, is that a ten-gallon hat or are you just enjoying the show?
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Jan 21, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I think he is referring all the way back to after the 2009 season - when we brought in VC.
But I have come to agree with your assessment (on the rest of your post) for the most part.
All of the best sigs are taken.
Love what you just said. Nailed it all on the money.
Another word that comes to mind was “comfortable”. No sense of urgency. We knew we were gonna win 50 games and then win in the first round. I think that last part is key. The heart-to-heart talk. If Gil can just relax. Seriously against San Antonio he played so free. Don’t try and structure him. Just let him do his thing. Kind of like Turk. When he is free and not worried about mistakes he will be fine.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
May have caught a break in trading Lewis
Rashard Lewis is complaining of tendonitis in his right knee after a 3 for 11 shooting performance, including 0 for 5 from three-point range, in Wednesday’s 100-87 loss to the Bucks.
Lewis said he brought the nagging injury with him from Orlando when he got swapped for Gilbert Arenas last month.
"It just hasn’t been getting no better since I been here," said Lewis. "I’ve been doing a lot of rehab and treatment. I got an MRI on it. It just seems like it’s been acting up. Some nights it’s fine, and then some nights I seem to just be dragging it along out there."
Lewis has averaged 13.4 points, 7.3 rebounds and 3.2 assists per game since joining the Wizards, but had just eight points, four rebounds and two assists against the Bucks.
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/wizards/2011/01/lewis-battling-right-knee-tendonitis#ixzz1BhGw9qhf
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
Hello, handsome, is that a ten-gallon hat or are you just enjoying the show?
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Jan 21, 2011 1:47 PM EST reply actions
That sucks.
Looking back, the few games he’s missed for Orlando the past few years (besides the suspension) were because of tendonitis in the knee also. Don’t know if it’s the same knee or what, but he’s played a lot of games now in his career. Might officially be hitting that high-school-to-NBA-player wall.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Arenas vs Nelson
Jameer Nelson is by far a better option at point then Gilbert Arenas. Jameer is quick and can penetrate the defense. He has the ability to drive to the hoop and score or dish it to Howard or one of the Magic’s many 3 point shooters if the defense collapses on him. Bottom line… Nelson is a great play maker. Areans is slow. He never even tries to penetrate the defense. The whole team looks flat when he is on the floor because Arenas isn’t making plays. It looks as if Arenas just doesn’t want to be playing basketball at all. I’d like to see a Team stat breakdown of when Arenas is vs when Nelson is in if that exists some where. While I loved the trade with the suns… I didn’t really like the Arenas for Lewis trade when it happened because I like Nelson so much. It pissed me off even more when I heard rumblings about the possibility of Nelson being traded for another big man. Don’t get me wrong I think Arenas has the potential to be a star player in the NBA, which he has proven in the past, but potential doesn’t mean anything if you don’t put in the work. In his current form I think Arenas would make a great back up for when Nelson needs a rest and a better back up option than Chris Duhan. Arenas is averaging just over 21 min per game compared to Nelson’s 30. I’d like to see that 9 min difference increase as the season goes on.
Heck… I’d like to see Hedo take the point a few times during a game.
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One thing I don't get is why some of us were ok with Rashard's contract
saying it wasn’t his fault and everything but keep bringing up the fact the Gil is overpaid. Forget the money guys, we have to live with that aspect of the trade. Let’s just hope that he’ll find ways to earn them.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
well in defense of Lewis's defense
he kind of earned that forgiveness on our championship (almost) year. Some of those dagger threes were epic and will never be forgotten by this fan. That and the sound of the Magic announcers yelling “Cold blooded” as Lewis hits another three. Loved what he did for our team so he gets leniency. Gilbert was in the same boat in Washington where people were defending him due to his past accomplishments for their team. It is the nature of the beast. That being said, you are correct, people need to live with it as there is no sense speculating what could have been. Lewis is gone, Gilbert is here, here is hoping that we will have “forgiveness” for Gilbert soon enough…
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
I think some people are unhappy that we traded for a longer-term bad contract
In addition to trading a big for a small, which is generally considered A Bad Thing.
Bob.
Bingo.
I don’t get why some of the people who killed Lewis for his contract are so patient with Gilbert.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Is overpaid
I do think it’s Otis’ problem for taking a problem (too much salary to under-performing players) and making it worse (taking on more salary for less production).
by eltharion_doa on Jan 21, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
It's funny that when the trades first went down, everybody was jumpy about defending the genius behind it.
Many were not willing to listen to the logic against – at least – parts of the trade. There were those who argued that fans have no say in what GMs decide to do, and better go along with it or risk being non-supporters of the team. Now that the dust has settled and the excitement has worn out, at least there is a chance to discuss some of the realities on hand. Assuming that the purpose of trade with PHO was not Hedo, but J-Rich, and that in many assessments would come close to a wash with Vince, while PHO wanted to dump Hedo, the question becomes why did we need to give up the best back-up center in the league and our best perimeter defender? Now setting the PHO trade aside, as others have pointed out, what was the rush in trading for Arenas?
I don’t buy into what is done is done and this discussion is irrelevant. It is relevant not only in the sense of simple outcome of this season but also in the sense of long term financial obligations strapping the team for years to come affecting – in particular – the re-signing of the franchise player.
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