Boston Celtics 109, Orlando Magic 106
The Orlando Magic hung pretty tight with the Boston Celtics in an exciting, nationally televised Martin Luther King Jr. Day affair, but Boston executed better down the stretch and came away with a 109-106 victory as a result. The Magic, who have lost three of their last four games by a combined 7 points, all on the road, got game-bests from Dwight Howard, with 33 points an 13 rebounds, but couldn't come up with enough stops against a balanced Celtics offense which had six players score in double-figures. Ray Allen scored half of his 26 points in the final period and accounted for all three of Boston's three-point makes, while Kevin Garnett returned after a nine-game absence to contribute 19 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, and 2 steals, including a game-clinching pick of Jameer Nelson's pocket with 15 seconds to play and Orlando trailing by just 3 points.
Orlando won't lose many games when it sinks 11 three-pointers at better than 40 percent, as it did tonight, but its lax defense cost it the game. Jason Richardson will certainly go under the microscope for his lapses, particularly in the fourth quarter. He plowed through a Garnett screen on a missed three-pointer by Allen, giving the veteran big man two free throws with 1:05 to play which proved to put Boston in control for good. On the Celtics' next possession, Richardson fouled Paul Pierce on a long two-point jumper attempt--which he canned, of course--to spot the Celtics an additional point, putting them up by three with 38 seconds left.
But as always, it's unfair to place the blame for a loss squarely on one player. Richardson will bear a lot of scrutiny, but he's hardly the only one who struggles to fight through Boston's screens trying to check Allen. Maybe J.J. Redick, who's more experienced defending Allen, will get the call next time, but Richardson's more explosive offense was needed late in a close game. Further, Richardson alone can't stop the Celtics' brilliant passing on the interior, which led to plenty of easy Boston buckets early on as it raced to a 15-6 lead in the game's first 4:51.
| Team | Pace | Efficiency | eFG% | FT Rate | OReb% | TO Rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Magic | 86 | 122.9 | 53.4% | 36.5 | 35.1 | 15.1 |
| Celtics | 84 | 129.9 | 62.1% | 31.4 | 22.2 | 14.3 |
| Green denotes a stat better than the team's season average; red denotes a stat worse than the team's season average. | ||||||
If you're Orlando, you can't feel too terribly about this loss, as you didn't learn too much new about your team. The positive--and I understand the Magic, who fancy themselves championship contenders, don't give a rip about "moral victories"--is you managed to take the East's top team at the NBA's halfway mark to the final minute in their building. The defense has to improve, sure, but you at least demonstrated you have enough offense, more than enough offense, to challenge Boston on a nightly basis. Howard keys that, as his 33 points against single coverage attests, but the Magic also had four more players score in double-figures. Efficiency is the greater issue. Richardson missed his first five shot attempts before warming up in a major way after halftime, going 5-of-9 from the floor to close the game for 14 points. Ryan Anderson and Brandon Bass, Orlando's power forwards, combined for 29 points on 9-of-15 shooting, with Anderson drilling his first four three-point tries to shoot Orlando back into the game in the second period.
The lack of perimeter offense, though, proved costly. Hedo Turkoglu shot 4-of-11, Gilbert Arenas went 2-of-6, and Redick connected just once in four tries from the field. Those three will need to get it going against Boston in the future, and there should be little doubt, based on their track records, that Turkoglu and Redick are at least up to the challenge.
Orlando may need to revise its approach on that end of the floor, particularly to start games. Turkoglu and Richardson got hot in the second half, and one wonders if they might have done more with additional chances before intermission. Bass tends to look for his shot all the time, really, but especially to start games. Though gifted as a scorer--it's his best skill, and the biggest reason he earns a healthy NBA paycheck--I think he needs to recognize he's the Magic's fifth option as a starter, with Howard, Richardson, Turkoglu, and Nelson serving as options 1 through 3-B, respectively. He used four shooting possessions in his first stint on the court, which spanned from tipoff to the 4:31 mark of the first period. To his credit, he tallied two assists as well, but he needs to look to pass more often, and settle for jumpers less often, when with the four starters. I'm fine with him letting it fly with the second unit, though.
It's interesting, then, that coach Stan Van Gundy played Anderson over Bass in the game's final period. Anderson grabbed three key offensive rebounds in that stretch, rewarding Van Gundy's trust, and one went to Richardson for a go-ahead three-pointer. The other two didn't turn out so well for Orlando. With the game knotted at 102, Anderson hauled in a long trey attempt from Richardson and tried to flip in a hook over Glen Davis' stout interior defense. Howard grabbed that miss, but Davis rejected his putback offering as Boston's defense converged. Here, Anderson should have reset the offense by kicking the ball out to Nelson or Turkoglu to run more clock, getting a better look.
The second was equally important, as he chased a Turkoglu miss into the right corner and swung the ball to Nelson, with Orlando trailing by three and 26 seconds to play. The Magic could have eaten almost all the clock to set up a tying three, or played for a two-pointer if it availed itself. We'll never know what might've happened, as Garnett poked the ball away from Nelson as Orlando's point guard tried dishing the ball to the top, sealing victory for the hosts.
But those plays only get more attention because they came in the clutch. Any combination of two made field goals or two defensive stops would have won this game for Orlando. I have a hard time getting too worked up about this loss, if I'm honest. We'll have a better idea of where the Magic stand in relation to the Celtics when they next meet February 6th. Until then, the Magic have to hammer out the kinks, especially defensively.
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Solid Recap
Like you, not too frustrated with the loss. Felt bad about it, but due to your write-up, made a wager on the C’s covering 1 point in the 1Q. Needless to say the folks in Vegas have not picked up on your article yet!
Overall, thought the Magic did a good job of getting open looks tonight that they failed to get last year in the playoffs. I think the only discouraging thing about this game was the first foul on Dwight being so egregious that it took him out of the game early. Yes, he was on the floor, but he was avoiding rotations and steering clear of post confrontations defensively to ensure he didn’t pick up #2.
One last point: this is not a Jameer-Gilbert flame in any way, but I’d love to know what Jameer’s 4th Q FT shooting looks like this year. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like he’s been very poor overall.
It's the same old story, though
Even if Nelson is shooting FTs badly, it’s hard to see Arenas doing any better given he’s only taking 2.4 FTs per 36 minutes since the trade, and hitting them at a Howard-esque 66.7%.
It’s like anything Nelson does poorly, Arenas can do worse.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 18, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
"4th Q FT shooting" isn't a stat.
There’s no correspondence between free throw shooting and quarter.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
It IS trackable.
But I doubt it varies at all from his career/season FT%.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 18, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Interestingly enough SI's kids page tracks it
Just can’t tell if these numbers are career (I think this is the case) or season.
http://www.sikids.com/basketball/nba/players/3837/splits.html
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 18, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Jameer is 65-80 FTs this year
including,
28-31 in December, and
12-14 in January.
So, probably not too off the mark in 4Qs lately.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 18, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. Those splits are so comprehensive.
And they are for the current season.
Here are some Jameer FT% breakdowns:
Total: 0.813
Wins: 0.809
Loss: 0.818
Blowouts: 0.882
Close Games: 0.775
1 possesion games: 0.732
Late & Close: 0.500
Leading 15+: 0.917
Leading 1-6: 0.727
Leading 1-3: 0.700
Tied: 0.400
Trailing 1-3: 1.000
Trailing 1-6: 1.000
Trailing 15+: 0.800
Q1: 0.857
Q2: 0.944
Q3: 0.765
Q4: 0.763
Last 3 min Q1: 1.000
Last 3 min Q2: 1.000
Last 3 min Q3: 0.667
Last 3 min Q4: 0.813
Y'know, for kids.
Evan just tweeted...
“SI for Kids has the nuttiest split stats I’ve ever seen. Oh, and Jameer Nelson is shooting 40% on FTs when game is tied. ”http://3.ly/pspd" target="_blank">http://3.ly/pspd"
You can follow me on Twitter. Also run the @Amway_Get_Loud account.
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thank you nostradamus
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Jan 18, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Judging by the last three years, Boston does beat Orlando in about 5
out of 12 games or so.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Guys are still learning the rotations
Unfortunately, that still seems to include Bass…
Bob.
Ouch.
lol
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 18, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson and Bass badly need to swap spots in the lineup.
Remember earlier this year when Anderson was the starter but always got the quick hook, leading to Bass playing the important minutes in the 4th quarter? They switched roles for this game.
Bass is simply a black hole on offense (nothing, including light and the ball, can escape his grasp), and neither his rebounding nor defense is better than Anderson’s. I’m at a loss to justify his starting spot. But as Evan says in the recap, it’s fine to shoot with the 2nd unit, and that is where Bass belongs. Lord knows I’d rather him be shooting than Arenas on that 2nd unit.
As soon as SVG makes this switch, 1st quarters will no longer be a nightmare for the Magic.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 18, 2011 12:07 AM EST reply actions
Could be the truth.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I'd be curious to see what the Magic can do with Ryan in the starting line up too but the down side would be that our bench scoring would take a big hit . . .
Then again if the starting 5 could actually you know, like build a lead, then it might not be an issue.
Ryan’s play lately has certainly been worthy of a starting spot though . . .
R.I.P. Peaches . . . Your love for the Magic was only eclipsed by your love for untimely turnovers.
Ryan's last 5 games:
14.2 pts, 7.6 boards (3.4 offensive), 1.4 blocks, 50% FG, 51% 3FG, and all in only 24.8 minutes.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Anderson and Bass; or Bass and Anderson
just seems like whoever comes off the bench plays better. So it doesn’t matter who starts, (and may not worth changing the starting line-up again). whoever plays better that game will have more playing time.
It's not a matter of "plays better".
It’s a matter of “never passes the ball, thereby disrupting the flow of the offense for the rest of the starting lineup.”
And I certainly hope it’s not a matter of “is constantly missing defensive rotations and leaving his man open”… but it was tonight. Serious, Bass, I thought you grew out of that this summer?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
by 3.3seconds on Jan 18, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's regressing before our very eyes.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Jan 18, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
'cept he had two 1Q assists in this game.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 18, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah.
And Ryan had two blocks against new Orleans, and again against Boston. I’m not going to start talking about him as a shot-blocker, though.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
That much having been said...
…Anderson started the game 5-6, then didn’t get another shot attempt until well into the fourth quarter. Maybe the Celtics started focusing in on him, but really? Not one?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Also, Hopefully that would give him rest and the ability to play center if needed.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
This game was weird.
There were 50 points for each team in the first half. Typically it seems like neither team gets 50 until late in the 3rd.
Anyways, it sucks to lose, but I knew this was going to happen. The Patriots lost, so that used up all of my good juju for the weekend. There was just no way both the Patriots and the Celtics would lose in the same weekend. Oh well, looking forward to the re-match.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
could have done better
that was a pretty great game. but a few problems. anderson was on fire and we didn’t get him the ball sometimes. that one three pointer by J-rich from about 35 ft away was unnecessary and allen was too open in the final minutes. the D was somewhat terrible. man that Win was sooooo close and yet so far. tough lost tonight. can’t wait for the rematch.
Waiting for buy-out season
No point making a move now if someone like Dalembert is going to become free.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 18, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Celtics are a better team
Orlando just ran out of luck at the end, the best team won. And they will improve more once Perk and Delonte West come back. Serious title contenders, GO CELTS.
The fact that the Celtics won...
… even with the Magic hitting ELEVEN three pointers just shows how tough the C’s are. Think about it… Do you actually believe Anderson will hit four three pointers in a row again?
By the way, look at the C’s stats. They are NUMBER ONE at FG percentage. The C’s hitting 60% of their shots shouldn’t be a shocker.
Good god, teams do not shoot 60% for a sustained amount of time.
Orlando has been shooting close to 44% on three pointers since the trade, so their performance there is not out of the ordinary.
Celts fans thinking you guys are going to shoot 60% from the field over a 7 game series are freaking delusional as hell.
Boston sports fans? Delusional as hell?
PERISH THE THOUGHT!
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Um, not really.
As a team they shoot 50%, 53% in eFG:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2011.html
The five man unit of Rondo-Allen-Piece-Garnett-O’neal has an eFG for .603 (Couldn’t find numbers for straight FG%, but if statistical trends hold, it’s generally 3-4 point lower, so we can assume about 56%.)
So ya… anything between 40-60% shooting is par for the course. So as stated, hitting 60% shouldn’t be a shocker.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Link for 5-man unit data:
Forgot to include it
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011BOS2.HTM
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Few problems with your post here.
First of all: That’s a 5 man unit, not the entire team. Second of all, that’s not taking into account the fact that the Magic are now 5th in the league in opponent eFG% at 47.95%. Thirdly, the overwhelming trend of the games between these two teams have been low-scoring slugfests. All of those point more to “aberration” than “par for the course”. Also, “anything between 40-60%”? That’s a huge variance there. Of course something in there is within the realm of possibility.
Finally… have fun with seeing how long that 5 man unit can stay healthy.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
No, I realize that.
I was just mentioning that since that 5-man unit saw the most court time in the game, them shooting 60% isn’t all that crazy, it’s really only slightly above their averages.
And all those numbers would have been higher if it weren’t for Robinson who had an awful shooting night.
Clearly, shooting 60% or over is a trend that probably wont hold true every time they play. But my point was, if statistical trends held, the correction would be in the 40s, since they shoot around 50% as a team.
To hold a FG% in the 50s, you have to have games that reach those high 50, 60s levels, there’s no way through this many games, your overall FG% would be that high otherwise. So, 60% games aren’t exactly never going to happen for them, and shouldn’t be a shock as people are putting it.
No, it wont happen every game, but it’s not an “aberration” as you put it.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Do you actually believe Anderson will hit four three pointers in a row again?
Yes. Not every game, but he’s a deadly shooter. If you were to make a list of PFs with three point range, you’d probably have Bonner, Harrington, and Love ahead of him. That’s it. Nobody else is comparable in efficiency and volume at the 4 spot.
Bob.
Well by that logic...
I’m sure the Magic will continue to shoot 60% from DEEP every time they play them.
They were what… 7/12 at the half?
Unsustainable numbers from deep, and the Celtics regularly shoot in the mid to high 50s every game, they lead the league in FG%, that’s what happens when you get good shots.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
11 for 27 sure is 60% isnt it.
I’m pretty sure its 40.7%, but I am not surprised that you couldn’t figure that out from reading the box score.
At half...
Is what I said, and that shooting was literally the only reason it was even a game at halftime. Without the 3-pt shooting they’d of went into the half down double digits, easily.
Howard was great in the second half, and they had a much more balanced attack. Just saying, it kept them in early, and allowed them to find their groove. Whereas any other night, they might have been ready to board the bus by halftime.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Magic were 6 of 13 on threes at the half
The road to the Super Bowl comes through Chicago... Go Bears... Bring on the cheeseheads from Green Bay!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 18, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yep.
One 3-point home win = irrefutable proof that blah blah blah.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
you know what?
fans of other teams that we lose to NEVER come into our blog and gloat. I’ve only ever seen Celtics fans do that, on multiple occasions. So what does that say about you?
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
it's happened EVERY year
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
why are you even posting over there
it’s like trying to talk sense to a bunch of thick-headed blowhards.
wait…
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Well, you're not exactly making a great case for Magic fans here.
With talk like that.
It makes you no better than some of the “blowhards” we have in Boston. Which there are plenty of, I won’t even try to deny it.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
lol okay
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you.
Discussing the game is one thing.
Coming in and saying “We’re better than you, blah, blah blah” is pretty asinine.
Sorry, the rest of them are out of my control.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Delante WHO???
Seriously… Delante West has NEVER been SEEN in any of the games with the Magic, even while in Cleveland; he’s NEVER played ANY significant role against us… GEEEZZZ!!!
Now Perk is another matter; he goes toe-to-toe with Howard. Still, Howard has improved offensively quite a bit since last year… and even THEN, Perk could NOT stop him!
No… I’m afraid the Celts will not improve much: AGE DOES NOT LIE!
Well, Delonte not playing against the Magic is kinda a pointless argument.
Point is, he’s going to help the team. Robinson is not a PG, he needs to be playing off the ball to catch and shoot, or come around screens and get to the rim. He’s just not a natural distributor. West is a far better natural PG and can run the second unit, allowing Robinson to focus on his scoring and opening him up.
Perk helps in rebounding, which killed the Celtics last night (11 offensive boards) Howard will still get his, he’s a great player. But another big body to bother him and make him work/tire clearly helps them.
Far as your last line goes… well, see ya in the playoffs (maybe.)
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Please excuse Manny55, he is our resident crazy uncle. He would probably be one of those
who venture over to your site when we win games.
You can follow me on Twitter. Also run the @Amway_Get_Loud account.
http://twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
Haha, noted.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
To be fair, though, West really hasn't played great against the Magic
His career stat line in 14 games against Orlando:
29.6 minutes, 11.8 points, .409 FG%, 3.4 REB, 3.7 AST, 0.9 STL, 1.6 TOV
He’ll be an upgrade over Robinson, certainly, but he’s not going to be a massive improvement, and he won’t get anywhere near those sort of minutes unless Rondo’s out.
Bob.
Completely agree.
Not arguing he’ll be “the difference maker” just that he makes the team better.
He’s an upgrade defensively and offensively for that second unit, and he’ll find better shots for other players, while allowing Robinson to focus on scoring. If he ends up a +6, I’m thrilled, for a limited minutes bench guy, what else can you ask for?
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
why is a boston fan on a Magic site?
luck huh? so we were lucky to beat boston on x-mas day by 16 and boston beating us by 3 tonight. get outta here. some our players are just struggling. that should be fixed by the next rematch. and them shooting 60% will be long gone.
yes beat a team
with many injured players (Rondo, Perk, Delonte etc) It doesn’ matter if you loose by 1 point or 20 a loss is a loss, your team will end 4 in the east if no injuries, nothing more.
by greenSanDiego on Jan 18, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
see you in playoff time to beat your team again
by greenSanDiego on Jan 18, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
And the worst thing you can do is feed a troll. They are like stray cats - just hang around forever if you give them something.
So don’t play, people.
All of the best sigs are taken.
Can't disagree.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Actually, no.
Generally, they give the ring to the team that wins some games. There’s a certain random aspect to it, in that the games that determine the title are the ones near the end of the season, but in the long run, the team that’s capable of winning a greater percentage of its games is also the team most likely to win the last ones.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
worried about bass
how much is that knee affecting bass? he just doesn’t seem like the guy that was doing pretty great at the start of the season. sure he was making shoots tonight. but overall he’s not as dominant as before. is he still gotta need surgery?
You can say what you want about the knee.
But the knee didn’t make him force those first—half shots of wander off Garnett repeatedly. And I certainly hope Bass didn’t injure his brain.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I for the life of me do not get coming onto another team's blog site
and talking trash. Seriously dude, get a life. And if there are any Magic “fans” that go on your site and talk trash, feel free to tell them to F off as well.
BTW, You didn’t play in the game, so please stop acting like you had something to do with this victory for the Celtics.
You can follow me on Twitter. Also run the @Amway_Get_Loud account.
http://twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
I enjoy it.
Having actual discussions with other teams fan bases, it’s nice to add another perspective and argue some point. Sadly, some people can’t tolerate a genuine discussion and it often escalates past discussing basketball very quickly.
Such is life.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
yes, Sizzlack and MagicMark seem to be having a very cival discussion
which is welcomed in my opinion. Now when people come over like greenSanDiego, well, yeah.
You can follow me on Twitter. Also run the @Amway_Get_Loud account.
http://twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
If you actually deserve to talk trash,
Please start when you have blown out a certain team not when you win by a measly 3 pts, doesn’t look good on you.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
but they're missing two players!!!1!eleven!
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
I can't honestly remember the last time Delonte West did anything significant, other than bang Lebron's mom.
by MagicMark on Jan 18, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
HDU he's a very important player! >>>>>:(
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Bang.
Rec’d.
-FLORIDA STATE SEMINOLES-;;-►
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Jan 18, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
Fair statement.
But he looked great in preseason, and had in impact in the few games he players this year, before he broke his wrist.
He’s a very talented player who can impact a game in a number of ways; running the offense, good shooter, plays great defense and can defend both guard positions well.
He was a starter a couple years ago in Cleveland, before he succumb to his personal issues (bipolar disorder) and was a very effective one at that.
So, whereas there’s a fair amount of risk involved in him, and certainly no guarantees, there’s no question he has the talent to help Boston, or any team for that matter.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
The one person that Delonte has somewhat trouble with
is his former St. Joe’s teammate Jameer. I don’t know if it is because they played so much together that they know each other’s weaknesses more than anyone, but Jameer usually gets the better of him (probably because he is just a better player)
Delonte though will be a big upgrade over Nate, as long as he has his mental issues under control like you mentioned.
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Agreed.
But Jameer vs. Delonte won’t see that much time.
It’ll be more Delonte vs. Arenas.
Rondo obviously plays the bulk of the minutes and matches Jameer up.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
you're right about that.
I was basically talking about the few minutes that they would be matched up with each other.
And because Doc doesn’t use his bench as much as Stan does (at least in the regular season) they won’t be on each other much.
It will be interesting to see Delonte vs. Gil. I don’t think Delonte will give Gil much trouble though. I am basing my thought on previous seasons with previous teams, but when Gil’s Wizards played Delonte’s Cavs, Gil played pretty damn good.
Of course that was several years and surgeries ago, so we will just have to wait and see.
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True.
Gil is a different player now than he was then.
But Delonte doesn’t get much credit for his defense, which is excellent. I fully believe he can bother any player at either guard position. I remember watching him in 06-07 when he was pretty much a lone bright spot on an awful team.
The guys got serious talent, he just hasn’t been able to really let it show yet due to… numerous personal problems.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
For the first time under Stan Van Gundy, the opposing team shot 60% in a game
Boston shot 42 of 70.
The previous highest opposing team shooting percentage under SVG was November of ’07 when Detroit shot 58.9% while scoring 116 points against the Magic.
The last time a team shot better than 60% against the Magic was January of ’06 when Toronto shot 63% while scoring 121 points.
The all-time record for the highest opposing team shooting percentage in a game against the Magic is 63.3% set in November of 1991 by the New York Knicks, who scored 128 points.
The road to the Super Bowl comes through Chicago... Go Bears... Bring on the cheeseheads from Green Bay!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 18, 2011 1:43 AM EST reply actions
your head must hurt from banging it against the wall so much
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
want to see Anderson in the lineup?
ooh I hope another Bass/Anderson debate starts up again!
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 18, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
I want to see Ryan in the starting lineup.
Stan has never been one to play favorites with his PF’s. Which ever one plays better, starts. Right now that’s Ryan. He fits much better with Hedo than Bass does anyway. Anderson is basically a better version of NBA Finals Rashard right now. You can’t deny that, look at his splits over the last 5 games or so.
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by JeffShann3 on Jan 18, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You also can't too excited over 5 games
Remember we won 9 straight with Bass starting and Ryno coming off the bench. Look the Magic just come out lackadasical. That apparently is the new status quo for the team. You can’t blame Bass when he shot over 50% last night. This team usually got off to slow starts during the Finals run as well. This team knows how good it can be, and doesn’t start playing until they are down 10-15 points. It’s on the players. SVG can only do what he can do. Players need to start out playing with urgency. Either way I am not too depressed over the mini slump. It was a long road trip. First one with the new guys. Unlike the other long road trip, this team was not getting dumped by 30 each game. If I am the rest of the league, I will scared $h!tle$$ once they figure how to play decent defense. The firepower on this team is just crazy, nasty, filthy, wicked unfair to everyone else. And Jason Richardson, read your scouting report next time, everyone knows what PP is gonna do on every play. Dribble, dribble, pump fake, lean into his defender. Rinse, lather, repeat.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I get that it is obviously an extremely small sample size
And you are right, the team looked great before this recent stumble with Bass at the 4. But they were still starting the 1st quarters out slowly and maybe Bass just needs a little bit of a wakeup call.
I also am not worried in the least about these last 3 losses. Combined 7 pts while playing the best record in the East, a very strong Oklahoma City team, and a New Orleans Hornets team that beat us in OT.
I just hate watching Ryan sit on the bench to start the 3rd quarter (the first 8 mins to be more accurate) while the dude single-handedly kept them in the game last night in the 2nd. I know that is just what Stan does with his rotations and it keeps everyone’s minutes the same, but I go with the hot hand and ride it out.
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I agree with you.
But Ryan Anderson didn’t show he could be a starter. But maybe he deserves another chance. Either way, the team just needs to stop coming out with no energy.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Care to explain why you think this:
But Ryan Anderson didn’t show he could be a starter.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 18, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
He had some opportunities earlier in the season.
Dreadful start against Milsap and was benched by SVG in like 30 seconds. Maybe that lingers in SVG’s mind.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
well........
bass and hedo have been struggling. Anderson is a big threat. but quite honestly i think no. it would be nice to give earl clark some playing time behind hedo but i really just see it happening yet and i don’t see why not.
Evan mentioned in the recap that the Magic won't lose many games when they make 11 threes at a 40% clip
…and he is right.
Against Boston Monday night, this was the 77th game under Stan Van Gundy that the Magic made at least 11 threes while shooting at least 40% from long range (11 of 27).
In those 77 games, the Magic are 65-12 (84.4%).
When the Magic shoot at least 48% from three point range while making at least eleven threes in a game under SVG, the Magic are 32-2.
Thanks to www.basketball-reference.com in helping me with my research.
The road to the Super Bowl comes through Chicago... Go Bears... Bring on the cheeseheads from Green Bay!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 18, 2011 1:54 AM EST reply actions
Correction... the Magic are 64-13 (83.1%) in those 77 games, not 65-12 as I erroneously wrote
The road to the Super Bowl comes through Chicago... Go Bears... Bring on the cheeseheads from Green Bay!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 18, 2011 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
If someone had told me before the game that Boston would shoot 60% from the field and 85% from the FT line...
…I would have predicted a 20+ point win by the Celtics, so kudos to the Magic for keeping the game close on offense.
The Magic outscored Boston on three pointers and free throws 60-31.
The Celtics outscored the Magic 78-46 on two pointers.
The Celtics shot at least 56% in every quarter. 1st) 60%… 2nd) 58.8%… 3rd) 64.7%… 4th) 56.3%.
In the first half, the Magic trio of Nelson, Richardson, and Turkoglu combined to score 5 points on 1 for 6 shooting. They were much better in the second half, scoring a combined 29 points on 11 for 24 shooting.
Arenas continues to struggle with his efficiency. He scored 7 points on 2 of 6 shooting while committing 3 turnovers in just under 16 minutes of play.
Meantime, Nelson scored 9 points on just 5 shots in 32 1/2 minutes with just two turnovers.
The road to the Super Bowl comes through Chicago... Go Bears... Bring on the cheeseheads from Green Bay!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 18, 2011 2:29 AM EST reply actions
Yeah.. nothing new here. We got big offensive guns, but our defense is still a bit lax.
We dared Boston to score a lot of points, unlike back in Christmas Day. And they responded.
But that’s 3 losses out of 4. It’s a mini-slump, and now this is when defense needs to continually improve.
If I was Stan, I’d consider starting JJ at the 2, JRich at the 3. Hedo and Bass come off the bench, whilst Ryan gives you a decent rebounder and 4 3-point threats once again in the starting lineup. He can be a bit streaky at times, but that’s what you get for being a downtown bomber.
Just against Boston
For that starting lineup, or generally? I like the Redick v Allen matchup, but I don’t really want to see it against faster, younger two guards.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 18, 2011 5:59 AM EST up reply actions
And by "Redick"
You mean “Riddick”, as C-Webb called him last night.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I would agree with that
but the problem then lies with how well J-Rich would match up with Pierce. Pierce obviously isn’t as quick as Allen, but as we saw with 1 min. to go last night it wasn’t exactly a good situation for us to have Jason Richardson on Paul Pierce. As poorly Hedo plays defense at times (sometimes I feel like he doesn’t even know what it is) he somehow bothers Pierce with his length, which was key for the first 3 3/4 quarters last night.
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I like this...
The magic are starting too slow; need to get HOT from the opening bell. Only way to do this is starting with HOT players; JJ and Anderson, with Richardson at the 3 gives us that power, with Nelson rounding the 3-point threat!
This is a small line up but a fast one! It would give us a tremendous advantage in that critical first Qt. Then, we can bring in Hedo and Bass, with Arenas to pad the lead. JJ will actually improve the D over Rich at the 2 position, while the Howard-Anderson tandem should clean up the boards…
I like this a lot.
Anderson really struggled as a starter
van Gundy may, understandably, be reluctant to change what has been working (until very recently).
by eltharion_doa on Jan 18, 2011 6:00 AM EST up reply actions
Is "as a starter" really a different kind of play, though?
I mean, if you said he struggled against opposing starters, that would be one argument. But no, he’s getting a lot of PT against starters, and doing just fine with it.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
My 2 Cents
I must admit, I used to believe that Brandon Bass should start over Anderson due to his ability to hit wide open mid-range jumpers, and his energy.
However, after watching Anderson the past couple weeks, I am starting to believe that he is the perefect starting 4, while Bass would be a perfect reserve player. As long as Anderson can keep hitting around 40% of his three pointers, and get offensive rebounds, he should start. The problem with Anderson before, as with many 3 point shooters, is that they are streaky. But Anderson seems like an ideal fit as our starting 4, as he has a similar game to Rashard Lewis, which bodes especially well for Hedo. (plus he can rebound MUCH better than Rashard).
Bass, on the other hand, is still a tremendous player. But he does have that shoot-first mentality that hinders our other starters. As a reserve, however, his shoot-first mentality will be welcomed, as he would be a spark off the bench that would keep the offense flowing even while our starters sit.
I am still a believer in Arenas (maybe its my overly optimistic Orlando Magic fanhood), but he still shows glimpses of being the same Gilbert as before. I really believe that with enough time, he will start to demand more minutes due to his play (hopefully sooner, rather than later).
by supermantotherescue on Jan 18, 2011 4:14 AM EST reply actions
Would someone please be so kind
And tell me of a link where its possible to read all the post game comments from all players/coach it would be highly appreciated. None of the sites are good in terms of how comprehensive they are with complete post game coverage and comments. Thanks so much!
Usually the Magic's nba site has videos, etc.
At least a good starting point for you.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Jan 18, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Been doing that for like 7 years.
They actually became worse then they were couple of years ago
The game recap from Yahoo! Sports usually has postgame comments from players and coaches
The road to the Super Bowl comes through Chicago... Go Bears... Bring on the cheeseheads from Green Bay!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 18, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I understand the past few losses were close but
It would be a mistake to think that these losses were because of offense. Whilst it made for an exciting game, the magic’s defense has been really poor. I’m concerned because it seems like during crunch time we can’t string together enough stops. Anyone else felt sorry for Richardson last night who had to run through a million screens to catch up with Ray Allen? Not to knock on his effort on that end, because he clearly was going at it really hard, but it has to improve.
That said, the overall effort from the magic last night was good. I think it’s past the period where we can say that the new players need time to “settle in”. The time to produce is now, no more excuses.
Brandon Bass should still start...
However, he should not be operating as the teams #1 scoring option when he’s out there. I appreciate his confidence in himself, but he’s trying to do way too much and it’s breaking the offense.
I don’t mind him taking open mid-range jumpers that come when the ball is moving and swinging from side to side. I do mind when he gets the ball (especially early in the shot clock) and is trying to take people off the dribble. That is not his strong suit and he’s breaking the offense. His off the dribble moves are terrible. Just pass the ball man.
I want Bass to go and watch some tape of Horace Grant.
That’s exactly what he needs to do, and what he’s most suited to do.
Good idea.
Is he anywhere as smart of a player as Horace was though? That’s the issue I’ve always had with him.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I honestly don't know if there are many players who were as smart as Ho.
That guy was awesome.
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Or Bo Outlaw
You’re out there to defend, be physical, rebound, and take opportunistic shots.
Bob.
Outlaw
Like Grant, had mad basketball smarts. Bass…doesn’t.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 18, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Defense wins games
Not chucking up copious amounts of threes.. We need to get ahead, and shut teams down. We can’t do it.. No movement off opponent screens. Turk just looking at Pierce shoot jumpers and no shot-contesting whatsoever.
I fear the playoffs will be the same as last year. Maybe even worse. Call it being negative, I call it No Defense whatsoever.
Seems we have the right philosophy in defending those screens
Awareness and execution has to be better and it doesn’t help that Boston is also a phenomenal passing team.
I still think that J Rich has to do a better job of reading and fighting through those screens and staying closer to Allen. He’s way too far behind, so when the big man has to step out, they’re out there way too long waiting for him to catch up. Then the opposing big man finds the open spot on the floor and it’s all downhill from there. Even if our defense rotates perfectly (which hasn’t been happening anyway) I think Boston’s size gives them an advantage.
We have to bother that pass first to Allen coming off those screens.
Considering most of the screens every Boston player sets are of the moving variety, it is pretty difficult to get through them.
60%+ screens by every player in the league are moving anyways, but they hardly ever call it at all.
Don't get me started on moving screens.
But even with that, JJ seems to have a better knack for picking a path over, under, and through those screens they set for Ray Allen. No one gets through them all the time, but when you compare Redick’s performance in that aspect to JRich, you appreciate it all the more.
Y'know, for kids.
You're right, I think, in that JJ would have been better suited to deal with Allen.
But JRick was more necessary from an offensive perspective. What we needed was a JJ Richick, or something like that.
All of the best sigs are taken.
It's something that needs to be taken into consideration
If and when the teams meet during the playoffs.
Ugh come on man...
That door swings both way.
I know you saw Howard hip check Pierce on that Turkoglu 3 with no whistle.
All teams do it, sometimes you get caught, sometimes you don’t.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Right...
Well this argument will go nowhere.
We’ll each recount only our incredibly biased view of the “facts” in any play we try to recall.
Either way, point still stands, in any games, anywhere in the NBA there are always picks which could be called “moving” it’s such a fine line with that call. Sometimes they’ll call it, sometimes they wont. It’s just the way it is.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
It's difficult to argue when Pierce is like top3 in the league in the "Spectacular Flops" category.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 18, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Lol, these new basketball metrics still mess me up, is "Spectacular Flops" a per minute metric or %rate metric. If so, where does Manu rank?
by LastActionZero on Jan 18, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
It's a "per game" metric, actually.
I believe Pierce, Manu, Varejao, Fisher, and maybe a combo of James & Kobe round out the top five.
Mind you, this isn’t the standard “flops” category, which is based soley on the raw number of flops per game. This is the advanced stat, which takes into account the “amount of contact”-to-“reaction to contact” ratio, as to pull up players that freak the hell out to minor contact. Pierce’s ability to sustain career ending injures for about 5 mins before coming back into the game earn him lots of bonus points.
Howard is also decently high on the “Spectacular Flops” list, due to his patent pending “touch-equals-yell” technology. However, his eSF (effective Spectacular Flops) percentage is really low, since he gets fouled on nearly every single play but it never gets called because he’s too strong to be effected by contact that would be a foul on someone who’s not a freak of nature.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 18, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I wish I could rec this 10 times.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I can't even be mad.
That was funny.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Greg Paulus is the all-time college leader
Bob.
One of the things that never gets called, and the reason why I'm not mad at JRich for pushing through.
I’m upset because he can’t let that stuff get to him and pushing KG is detrimental to the team, but honestly if I got roughed up like that on every play, I would be kicking/punching/kidney shot people as I made my way through screens. Make them think twice about it.
by LastActionZero on Jan 18, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Are those mutually exclusive?
Surely they shoot threes on one end of the court and play defense on the other? I don’t think there’s ever a point where a basketball player has to ask himself, “should I play defense, or shoot a three?”
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
This is still a big improvement from last year's group...Not too upset about this loss.
I still believe we’ll be able to make some adjustments especially on the defensive end as the season progresses.
I hate Pau Gasol!
Well I'm a bit upset..
I’m just seeing the constant LAX on defense. And I know we NEED to play defense if we’re gonna win a championship. We’re not gonna win in the playoffs just chucking up Threes.. It’s just not gonna happen.
We got off lucky.. They could have had Perkins on the floor to help with Howard. We could have got blown out. 2 man screens, 3 man screens, NO movement on our side.. That’s how you get 60% from the field.
I think it takes time to learn defense.
I mean you add Turkoglu, Jrich and Arenas to the team, coming from teams where defense is a word that just doesn’t exist to them. How can you expect them to jump right in and play lock down defense?
Thing is, Howard is so good defensively that he covers up for a lot of their problems, but there’s going to be lapses. These guys just do not have that “take no possession off” defensive mentality. How could they, two come from Phoenix, and one has done nothing in his entire career but try to put up gaudy stats on bad teams.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Also, Dwight seems to be backing off to avoid foul trouble
Dwight still plays super smart defense (in a way he is rarely given credit for – it’s always about his athleticism, etc.), but he’s clearly backed off attempting to block and contest a lot of shots to avoid foul trouble. In some games, like last night, it works. In other games he gets the fouls anyway. Nonetheless, it seems he’s not providing as much help side D.
Of course, it could be that the new guys aren’t working to funnel people the proper way to allow him to help. It still seems to have waned a little the past few weeks.
Y'know, for kids.
Well there's on real back up Center.
So you can understand if he’s not overly aggressive. He needs to say on the court.
But I agree with you, Dwight is a fantastic defender, and he doesn’t get a lot of credit for it besides his shot blocking/post defense.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Backup Center or not...it doesn't matter. Howard needs to stay on the court regardless.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 18, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Very true.
But no easy feat for a big man.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
RYNO!
Stellar rebounding performance by Mr. Anderson last night. I hope that continues…and did Garnett actually step over Jameer on the way to stealing that pass?..and how is a shot considered continuation when you go up for it, get fouled, then place two feet back on the floor to rejump for the shot?? I hate those b.s. calls the refs make when the shooter clearly makes all the contact, then re-shoots after he has established contact.
Garnett's wingspan is huge.
The only chance Jameer had to get that pass through was with a bounce pass.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
This.
I wasn’t too upset at the officiating this game because we FINALLY got calls that we NEVER get ever. However, I still don’t understand how you can pick your dribble up, get a defender in the air, jump into them, get the whistle, have both parties land on the ground, and THEN get a another shot and it’s continuation. The foul was already committed and called, and it’s the equivalent of giving a shooter a free shot at the basket for 2 points. It’s an atrocious call so late in the game (at any point really). Next time Dwight is fouled in he paint on a rebound and the ball is whistled dead, he should be able to get a free shot from wherever he is standing for continuation. That sounds perfectly fair.
by LastActionZero on Jan 18, 2011 10:26 AM EST reply actions
Weird doesn't even describe it. By the same token, every time KG blocks a shot attempt after the whistle, it should be Goaltending. We would have won by 10 points.
by LastActionZero on Jan 18, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Haha.
The Celtics would never win another game.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
It seems very strange that
Howard gets T’d up whenever he opens his mouth, but Garnett can basically scream and curse and intimidate everyone on the other team non-stop but doesnt get called for technicals. If Garnett got called like Howard got called, Garnett would only play 20 games a year.
Thats a whole other can of worms, man.
I appreciate KG barking and being intense, but please don’t tell me you will call Dwight for ticky tacky techincals when someone is grabbing him and he jerks his arm away and NOT call it for KG smacking the ball out of players hands, pushing other players, and (like last years playoffs) smacking dwight in the arm multiple times.
by LastActionZero on Jan 18, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Which is why I don't mind Dwight's "smiling and joking" at the end of the game
I know some had an issue with it, but that’s his way of leveling the playing field, so to speak. The guy that makes the first move rarely gets called, but the person who retaliates.
Then again, you never know what he was saying to Garnett. Most truth is told in jest.
Ugh. No kidding
Please tell me how KG has a total of 4 technical’s all year. If that isn’t proof of a ridiculous double standard I don’t know what is.
Y'know, for kids.
What I would loved to see SVG say after the game:
“I want to also say that I was really impressed with Dwight tonight. There was some chippiness out there, but he kept his cool, and showed some real maturity. We would have been in real trouble if he had gotten frustrated and started doing things like knocking the ball out of people’s hands, bumping people after the whistle, yelling at the refs constantly using lots of profanities, or even continuing to complain while on the bench. I think we’ve seen that kind of stuff get called for technicals pretty consistantly all year, so it was great to see him stay composed.”
Passive aggressive mocking is the best way to draw attention to the absurd double-standard the Magic face, and to avoid getting fined for it.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 18, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Not gonna happen. And to be perfectly fair, Dwight does it a lot now too.
If the foul is called though and it obviously isn’t continuation (which might generally encompass the Pierce shot last night) that is generally when they do that.
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I'd tend to agree, that I don't particularly like that play.
Even though Pierce makes a living at it.
However, according to the rules, it’s still the right call, if the defender is in the air, any contact is a defensive foul, without exception. You see it constantly in the NBA, guys like Bryant, Wade, etc have made their careers on that play.
But I’d agree with you, I think if the offensive player jumps into him, no matter if he left his feet or not, it shouldn’t be a foul.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Right, on all points
But the point is here he landed again. If that is a valid shot, it has to be a travel first. Being fouled and then traveling negates the continuation.
That’s what made it, let’s say, weird.
Y'know, for kids.
by EnnBee on Jan 18, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, he didn't move his pivot foot, before going up.
So it’s hard to call the foul, I think the logic would say, when Pierce went up for the shot, Jrich (even though he had landed) was on his shooting spot, and there is the contact, so you have to call it. You can’t route a player off a spot, or path, no matter what side of the ball we’re talking.
It’s a very fine line, but in watching most NBA games, an exact play like that is almost always called. So, at least they’re consistent, I guess.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I don't mind the rule
It just seemed like this particular time Pierce drew the foul on the pump fake and not on the shot. He drew the foul on the pump, totally re-established himself and took the shot after the contact.
The way to stop it...
…is that if you go up and the guy jumps into you for the foul, hammer the ever-loving-s#!t out of him on your way down. They want the contact? Give it to them. I will never feel sorry for a player – no matter who it is or what team they are on – if the defender caught in that position just falls on them all the way to the floor.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 18, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
you're right
because a lot of the time when the player commits the foul, they don’t continue the play because they are like damn, i just messed up, and they mentally check out of defending the “continuation” but if they just hacked the crap outta him on the way down, they wouldn’t let their mistake grow further.
by MasterofMagic on Jan 18, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
J-Rich just kept his hands up.
If he had the presence of mind to bring his hands down on top of Pierce as soon as he got the contact, then Pierce likely doesn’t make the continuation. Once the whistle blows, you can foul the heck out of someone to make sure that shot doesn’t go in.
I think it’s the “hope” that the foul won’t get called – and in fairness, sometimes it doesn’t. But when there is that much contact, it was clearly going to be called a foul. It’s obviously happening really fast, but players can have a feel for what is and isn’t enough contact to get the call…he should have recognized as soon as he left his feet that if he felt contact, it was going to be called. Especially against a guy like Pierce, who does that move all the time.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jan 18, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent point.
But in the coddled NBA landscape, where Stern feeds player pacifiers and shields his biased, gambling addicted officials…
They’ll probably call that a flagrant.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
See I agree with the rules, if the defender is in the air and the offensive player shoots WHILE being fouled, it's continuation.
However, someone please explain how an offensive player can jump into a player, get the foul THEN set his feet and shoot. I understand it happening at once in an instant, and although i don’t like it I completely get it, but AFTER the foul is committed and he just resets…….
by LastActionZero on Jan 18, 2011 10:39 AM EST reply actions
Totally agree
The rule is absurd, it is unfair that if someone intentionally jumps into a player he gets to shoot FTs.
but pierce got fouled
then he landed, and jumped again for a new shot. He got fouled on the initial jump, not the shot when he landed after the contact, then jumped again and sunk the “and one”
by MasterofMagic on Jan 18, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
You are right, that´s even worse!!
Just imagine if someone gets fouled, steps clearly out of bounds and shoot. No way anyone is counting that shot, why did they count this one? It was a dead ball.
What happend to Q rich?
Weren’t we told that his new role in the team was to be the “defensive ace” and that he would enter the game in order to slow down Pierce, Wade, Kobe, etc?
In all fairness...
Pierce was pretty under control for most of the night. Didn’t really need to “slow him down”
They shoot over 60%
We needed to slow down everyone! We certainly needed some help on D. I am not saying that Q is the answer, but he was supposed to be it a couple of weeks ago.
I mean, he scored 14 point in 38 Minutes
Granted he was 5 for 7, wasn’t like he was lighting us up.
Furthermore...
Most of our defensive problems were team defensive concepts, I didn’t see much bad isolation defense until J Rich fouled him on that elbow pump fake that you KNOW is coming.
I am just saying we had a bad deffensive game
and that Q was supposed to be one of our best defensive players. So if you can’t stop anyone, it makes no sense to bench your best perimeter defender. What happened with him, is he playing that bad during workouts? Isn’t he supposed to play precisely in this situations? Or everything we were told was a big fat lie and he isn’t such a good defender at all?
Too bad he can't put the ball in the hoop.
We would have ended up losing 89-86 if Q played good defense last night.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Well you are right...
But we were also told he would be an upgrade over Barnes because unlike him he was a “good scorer”. Total failure!
Still I think it would be interesting to play him limited minutes. San Antonio in the last minutes of a close game after a time out would play Bowen on D, and inmeditately after getting the ball would call for a timeout take out Bowen and play Steve Kerr. We don´t need Q to score 20 points, just make 2 or 3 stops when it matters. As you say, we weren´t likely to win it anyway, but I’d give it a try.
We weren't talking about every center on the Celtics roster, but thanks for commenting.
by MagicMark on Jan 18, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wait, when did Jermaine get fat?
I thought he was just old and lazy and fragile.
Bob.
His offense has been absolutely awful
Which is why he can’t get on the court, I suspect.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 18, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Back and forth game
but we just came up a little short at the end. It seems that the teams were just trading baskets the whole game. My observations:
-Great to see Anderson get his confidence back. But Bass is just more athletic than Anderson and seems to be a bit more tougher. The example from yesterday is KG swiping the ball out of Anderson’s hands after a foul call. Anderson did nothing. KG gets a foul on Bass and Bass gives him a shove. I know you don’t want to get into these mind games with KG, but you can not let him bully you around. I know you might say “Anderson lets his game do the talking”, but thats BS. For a team that we will probably face in the playoffs, no one can intimidated by him. Also, KG is an a$$.
-Richardson messed up at the end, but what a great acquistion. I’m loving his ability to create shots for himself and being a good teammate.
-Gilbert, please go to the basket.
Can’t wait for the next game between the 2 teams.
"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.
What's Anderson supposed to do?
Retaliate with what very well might end up being called a tech in a hotly contested game? Every point matters. That kind of behavior is what gets Dwight into trouble.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Yea I don't agree with that notion
That’s exactly what KG wants you to do. It’s the same thing that Rodman used to do. Get you so worried about showing him up that you’re more concetrated on defending your manhood than winning the game.
I am less enthused by what I saw
I thought I was watching a rerun of the old Suns team of past years, and it looked to me like Howard was trying to emulate the old Amare. Score points, no defense. I like that he hit his free throws, but to me it looked like he was playing overly cautious, no doubt to avoid foul trouble, but if he is playing offense and not defense, the Magic have no chance. Too many times Howard was caught in between assignments and when he was in position, he seemed to never want to contest the shot. If he plays defense like that, we will not win in the playoffs. Period. The only real defense Howard played was on offense in getting Shaq to foul as he wasn’t even stopping his man(Shaq, 5-7), let alone others’. I know, people will point to what he did well, and for anyone else in this league I would agree. But this is Dwight, he is the real MVP because he makes his team better on both ends. Granted his teammates defense was attrocious at times, but he has got to close down that paint somehow, I mean if Boston is scoring as many points as we are from 3 point range on a night when the long ball is falling, what is this game if Ryan doesn’t hit four 3’s in a row practically? A blowout early that is what. All that said, there is hope, but only if the defense gets a lot better. We made 8 more 3 pointers than them and lost by 3. If we don’t hit as many 3 pointers, and Perkins is defending Howard respectably, we will need stops, and this game was a(nother) clear message that we are not able to compete at that end of the floor yet. I am happy the offense was good, but in the playoffs, I still believe you need defense to win it all. If the other team scores on 6 out of 10 shots, we lose.
Well this sure is one big cluster cuss...
I agree but to look at it from a different point of view
Dwight probably was looking to stay in the game and not pick up quick fouls and become a non-factor in the game, as frequently happens when the teams meet. However, I agree that we need him more than ever to set up on the defensive end. All that talk about being a leader… he gotta be the one to show commitment if the new guys are going to fall in line.
I don't think Detroit would be interested in buying him out.
by Evan Dunlap on Jan 18, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Not to the Nets, anyway
I think the Nuggets will eventually suck it up and deal him to the Knicks.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 18, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
For free, plus the millions of dollars they'll have to pay him, but I get your point. Not having to give up assets like Chandler, Fields, Gallinari.
by Evan Dunlap on Jan 18, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think they want to trade for him at the current asking price
But I think a deal could happen at the trade deadline when the Nuggets realise they take a draft pick and Gallinari (or whoever) or get absolutely nothing.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 19, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Where are they going to play Gallinari when 'Melo arrives?
Plus they guarantee things. You never know what will happen in FA.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 19, 2011 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
Stretch 4 maybe?
The guys 6’10 I think.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Of course...
That requires Amare to play C.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

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