Melo most likely out in DEN- Overreaction Trade Proposal 8/16
by Kevin Lin on Aug 16, 2010 6:11 PM EDT
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Here we go.. Lets say Denver decides to trade melo so they wont be left empty handed when he leaves over the summer. He obviously has alot more leverage then CP3. If that is the case, then Billups would be a pretty expensive piece for a team that wont make it past the first round. This is where the magic come in, two first round draft picks over the next three years, Jameer Nelson ( saves DEN 13 million over the next two years, Gortat ( on a great contract for a starting center), and Vince Carters ( expiring contract so that Denver still has flexibility next summer and this trade deadline). The magic would pick up Melo and Billups.
Starting lineups
Billups, Reddick/ Q-rich, Melo, Lewis, Howard
Discuss.
who says NO first?
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Orlando says No
Billups is old, and while he may be better than Jameer, isn’t worth it. Giving up the only person capable of productively playing backup C/PF isn’t attractive either, and Vince’s contract isn’t expiring. Getting Melo for a year and Chauncey may be better in the very immediate future, but in the long run? No thanks.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Aug 16, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions
Probably not.
Even on a team built around him, Melo is barely above the league average in scoring efficiency. He’s also not a plus passer or defender. He’s arguably the most overrated star in the league — he does a lot of stuff out there, but it’s not necessarily the kind of stuff that gives his team a competitive advantage.
Billups is good, of course, but he’s not clearly better than Jameer, especially at his age. And given Jameer’s familiarity with the system and role on this team, Jameer probably has the advantage even now.
And what exactly do we do with those 15 minutes a game at backup center? Go without any inside defendive presence?
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I think it would be a better team
I think with another superstar presence in the paint Melo would be more efficient. He is also a very good closer that (ill admit) SEEMS to be clutch in big games. We also know Billups has a very strong track record in the playoffs. He adds veteran leadership and can probably take over the PG duties easily on this team. I rather try to figure out what to do with 15 mins at backup center then to figure out our closer and playmaker.
The notion of a "closer" is a dumb one to begin with, though.
For 42 minutes of the game, the best thing is to be unpredictable — to balance the offense so that everyone can take a shot. So why this superstition that, in the last few minutes of games, you have to run the same iso over and over? It makes no sense, and I’d like to believe the Magic are smarter than that. (I know George Karl isn’t. Seriously, how does that guy still have a job?)
And I don’t think Billups is a markedly better playmaker than Nelson.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I dont think its dumb,
I’ve seen Vince Carter take too many fall away jumpers in crucial times last year enough to VALUE a guy like Carmelo that can draw contact and finish in the paint ( whether its the entire game or the end). When the defense tightens up, its helpful to have a guy like Melo that is strong enough to score in the paint. I love Jameer but he is a borderline All Star, whatever advantage there might be over Billups is less then the upgrade by having Carmelo Anthony. You guys are treating Melo like he is barely a top twenty guy in this league. He is a top ten guy.
There are a bunch of guys I prefer to Melo. I think the Nuggets' fast pace inflates his stats a bit, and he's not particularly efficient.
I’m not saying he’s chopped liver, but he is overrated.
I dont think he’s overrated. He actually performs well in the playoffs, and has won plenty of clutch/scoring battles against others with such a reputation: Kobe, LeBron. I don’t put him quite at LBJ, Durant, Wade, Kobe levels, but he’s the best after those 4 and plays good against them anyways. He’s that kind of “unstoppable” like them. And I like having the go to guy at SF, so VC can bounce and be replaced with a SG defender which is needed badly.
What kind of "unstoppable"?
The kind where he takes a lot of league-average shots? Given that the Magic have several players who are more efficient than the league average, I’d rather have someone a bit more stoppable, thanks.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Not many players (like 3?) can drop 30 on average and in pressure, closing situations where the other team has scouted and prepared, and still be these levels of high efficiency you say.
What am I saying about high efficiency?
I’m talking about a player who, if he got him, would instantly become the worst scoring option on the team.
Basketball trivia time! The Orlando Magic used 12 players during the 2009-10 season. How many of them posted an eFG% lower than Carmelo Anthony?
unless he, *gasp*, improves his efficiency here
which just about anyone who joins the team does
I don't believe that.
He was a low-efficiency scorer in the context of the Nuggets, who had many more accurate shooters, but that didn’t stop him from taking so many bad shots.
And I love Jameer, but is he really better at organizing an offense than Billups?
(Did Vince Carter become more efficient in the move from new jersey?)
Basketball trivia time! The Orlando Magic used 12 players during the 2009-10 season. How many of them posted an eFG% lower than Carmelo Anthony?
My point exactly.
He became less efficient, because he wanted to be a go-to scorer, and the Magic’s offense has no use for the whole concept of a “go-to scorer.”
Basketball trivia time! The Orlando Magic used 12 players during the 2009-10 season. How many of them posted an eFG% lower than Carmelo Anthony?
I'm not sure he's even a top-20 guy, actually.
He only does one thing, and a lot of guys are better at that one thing. For a guy who takes that many inside shots, he’s not even especially good at drawing contact. His stats are gaudy, but that’s about it…
Did I say “I want Vince Carter running isos at the end of the game”? I don’t want anyone doing that, and I think the statistics support the belief that it’s a bad plan. (Except in situations where forcing the ball toward your star is a good plan at any point during the game: Durant in OKC, LeBron in Cleveland, etc.)
The myth that “the defense tightens up” at specific points during the game is just that — a myth. It’s not even a myth that stands up to a lot of scrutiny; if the defense could just “tighten up” at any time, why would they only choose to do it for a few minutes a game? Sure, fatigue, whatever… but why couldn’t the backups do it? Why couldn’t teams do it for a minute or two to stop a run, or at the end of the second quarter, etc.?
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Carmelo is a top 10 guy. I'll stand by that.
Why does scoring decrease in the playoffs if defenses dont tighten up? Are you also saying that referees officiate games the same within the last 5 minutes?
Show me examples of successful teams that didnt have a player that can make plays for himself or for his teammates at the end of games.
John Hollinger debunked four nonsense playoff myths for ESPN the Magazine earlier this year.
If you’re an ESPN Insider subscriber, you can read it here.
The reality? Defenses don’t tighten up, experience doesn’t matter, the regular season meetings don’t matter, and officials don’t swallow their whistles.
Scoring decreases in the playoffs for two reasons.
Teams tend to play slightly fewer possessions/game, and the teams that made it to the postseason are (for the most part) above-average defensive teams.
These facts are related, of course… but they’re not specific to the postseason.
Consider the conference finals between the Magic and the Celtics, for example. Brutal, slow-paced, low-scoring basketball. Clearly an example of the playoff difference, right?
…well, um, consider the two teams’ regular-season meetings. (Particularly, for these purposes, the one where Vince Carter took it upon himself to dominate the ball near the end and almost cost us the game.)
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Denver says no
They’d want Ryan Anderson, a draft pick and cash as well. Plus, if they’re going to blow up their roster, moving Nene would probably interest them pretty highly as well.
It’s not a completely out of this world deal, but I think Denver will be working pretty hard to convince ’Melo to stay. It would still shock me if he walks away – the new CBA is going to slash his earning power, I suspect.
why would they move nene
he’s only 27 and can move over to his natural position which is PF..and with Gortat they obtain the starting C they have been looking for
If they're rebuilding--and if Anthony leaves, they have to--it makes no sense to keep a veteran at Nene's salary.
by Evan Dunlap on Aug 17, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Two more years.
So I could see them swapping him. Would Denver say no to Carter, Gortat, Bass, and like two first round picks???
Possible
Ben do you think that can happen? And one would the Magic do it considering that it seems that Carmelo wants to play in New York. You would be risking potentially taking on Nene’s contract(although it would be expiring that second year) and have Carmelo walk. On top of that Carmelo does not pass the ball. I think he is great scorer. And he can take over a game, but to me it would seem the Magic would be depending on JJ(assuming JJ would start) to “create” offense for everyone else. Unless Jameer increases his passing.
There is no way MELO would leave this team. IF he was traded here, he would sign the extension ASAP.
Not so sure.
Shaq was on a stacked Orlando team and left for LA. Why would Carmelo stay on a stacked Orlando team if his heart is in New York??? I am just saying. You can’t look at it from our perspective. Look at it from his. He is from Baltimore. He played at Syracuse. He is a northeast kind of guy. If I was him I would rather go to Orlando. Weather, no state tax, NO STATE TAX, Disney for the family, the chance to play LeBron and DWade four times a year for the division. But that is me. Not Carmelo.
I would do it. I wouldnt involve Nelson for Melo tho, unless it was Billups too, and I donno if Denver does that, Billups is a good vet to let lead a team rebulding. I think Jameer is better than Billups, but Id want to come out of it with either Nelson/Melo/Dwight, or Billups/Melo/Dwight. They might want to move another big contract instead/with of Billups, like Nene’s as Ben says, but I dont see how he fits, maybe he does fit tho very well?
In my opinion
This trade proposal must run this way:
Jameer Nelson,Vince Carter,Brandon Bass,Daniel Orton,+1 future first round draft pick,for Carmelo and Billups.
Stop Rosterbating!!!!
Never will this happen! I want vc to stay, but I like CP3 trade more too.
Do both
Get Anthony this summer, Paul next summer.
Victory is ours.
by eltharion_doa on Aug 26, 2010 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Does this help us?
He has ties to the Magic, so would he be more inclined to help out a former employer if he can’t convince Melo to stay in Denver?
``There’s no need to quit. There’s no need to say that we’re going down fighting because we’re not going down. You just have to think positive and if you think negative you are going to lose. Like I told the guys in the locker room, `If anybody has any doubt, we’re not going to win. But if everybody’s on the same page and believes we’re going to win, then we’re going to win it.’’’ -Dwight Howard
by BleedingBlueSince89 on Aug 26, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions
I love the Jameer comments...
I think he showed where he is in relation to Billup’s skill level: every time we lost ton the damn Pistons in the playoffs!
Go Magic/Bucs/Gators/Rays!
that makes sense
you should re-watch this year’s playoffs where jameer was the best point guard not named deron williams in the first two rounds
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