Four-Way Trade May End Orlando Magic's Chances of Acquiring Chris Paul from the New Orleans Hornets
by Evan Dunlap on Aug 11, 2010 1:38 PM EDT
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PrintThe Orlando Magic's efforts to acquire Chris Paul from the New Orleans Hornets may soon take a major hit as the Hornets have traded Darren Collison, Paul's backup and a rookie sensation last season, to the Indiana Pacers as part of a four-team, five-player trade, which Chad Ford first reported. Additionally, the Hornets will take on Houston Rockets swingman Trevor Ariza, who would join Emeka Okafor as a Paul running-mate with a long-term contract. The Pacers will receive Hornets swingman James Posey as well.
To review, New Orleans has dumped one bad contract; taken on another, longer-term one; and rid itself of Paul's backup in one transaction. If that's not a sign that it's prepared to build around Paul--or that it's not prepared to trade him, depending on your point of view--I'm not sure what is.
Trade rumors have linked the Magic to Paul, the NBA's top point guard, throughout the summer and intensified when he reportedly listed the Magic as among his favorite potential destinations.
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Depressing news indeed . . .
I guess now we can only hope that these moves fail miserably and CP3 joins us in 2 years time?
One can only hope!
Sigh . . . Now I need new AVATAR!
Courtney Lee
you left out the part about former Magic player Courtney Lee being sent to the Rockets..I miss that guy
Maybe a line like “former Magic guard Courtney Lee was also dealt from New Jersey to Houston as part of the trade” at the end of the first paragraph wouldn’t hurt for all us CLee fans.
This now opens the door for CLee to resign with the Magic at some later point. I have a feeling that Otis would make a run at him the moment he became a restricted free agent. At this point, he will have been on 3 teams in 3 seasons….thus lessening his value.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
I have to agree
I miss that facemask too. I can’t see how his confidence hasn’t been damaged by all this trading. If he’s not careful he could become the next Drew Gooden.
Nah... Lee's smarter than Gooden.
Gooden’s failure to reach his potential was mostly the result of him not having the court awareness to play good team defense or make good shot selections. Lee is the kind of smart, hard-working player who will always max out his potential. Which made him a good fit on the Magic, and I believe it’ll make him a good fit in Houston, the home of guys like Shane Battier.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Again, the post is about Chris Paul. There's no need to mention Courtney Lee.
And no, I don’t think Lee’s coming back to Orlando. I don’t expect the Rockets to let him get away in free agency.
Now, if I were simply reporting the trade, I would have mentioned all the teams and players involved. But this post addresses the trade specifically as it impacts the Orlando Magic’s pursuit of Chris Paul. Courtney Lee going to Houston, Troy Murphy going to New Jersey, etc., don’t matter in that regard.
lol poor guy lee really should have made that layup
j/k that had nothing to do with him being traded I know but this sucks no cp3 after all. Good thing we All Still Love jameer
Not so sure
If the Magic split in LA, that series is radically different. The Magic go up 2-1. And they don’t give up the way they did in Game 5. They didnt quit, just more like their will was broken which is fine I can live with that, they were still heart broken over game 4. If they go 6 or 7 games I think they keep Lee. Seriously. However I actually prefer Ryan Anderson. A natural 4 who can shoot? And reports are that he has gone and done a JJ(get ripped and worked really hard in the offseason.) Two guards are everywhere.
That;'s true.
I’m pretty sure there are more decent shooting guards out there than there are decent players at any other position. Relatively loose height requirements, and you basically only have to do one thing. (As opposed to point guard, which doesn’t require height at all, but the skill requirements are much greater… there are maybe 5 good backup PGs out there, and a lot of teams don’t even have one good PG. Everyone’s got a decent SG, at least on the Courtney Lee level, and a lot of teams have a backup SG who could be a decent starter.)
But yeah… how many PFs with three-point shots are out there? On the NBA level, it has to be less than 10. If that’s a player you want, Anderson is at a premium.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Using 35% 3PT% and making at least 1 per game as the cut-off for being a PF with a 3pt shot, there are 7:
Rashard Lewis
Matt Bonner
Andres Nocioni
Troy Murphy
Danilo Gallinari
Ryan Anderson
Charlie Villanueva
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Describing some of those guys as "power forwards" is pretty questionable.
I don’t even mean Rashard.
Last I checked, Nocioni was a SF; he might have played PF this season because the Kings needed him to. But he’s 6’7", 225 pounds… he’ll be back to the 3 soon enough.
Gallinari’s a little taller, but at best, he’s a Rashard-type PF: 4.9 rebounds in 33.9 minutes a game. If he did play PF last year, I can’t imagine he will this year, with Stoudemire and Randolph coming in.
And Villanueva is kind of a tweener as well…
I mean, Anderson’s already the second-best rebounder on this list.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Yeah, I was trying to make to as broad as possible to avoid having anyone mentioned that I "forgot"
Nocioni was a “combo forward” last year. He was on the floor 35% of the time, with it split 20% SF and 15% PF
Gallinari was all over the place, with 5% at SG, 39% at SF, and 23% at PF.
Villanueva was definitely a PF, though. 4% SF, 39% PF, 2% C.
So, depending on how tightly someone wants to consider the criteria, there are between 4 and 7 PFs that are capable and willing from three-point range, and the Magic have two of them.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I think making 0.6 to 0.9 3-pointers is ok to add, because of some team offensive systems. But still, putting Gallinari on the SF list, all I got out of that list is that Troy Murphy, Rashard Lewis, and maybe Charlie Villanueva are better than Ryan Anderson (not taking into account contract size, age, potential, etc.).
Disagree
I think this makes it even more likely that Paul could be traded to the Magic. In any trade we could muster, you have to think Jameer is involved. And with Collison on the Hornets roster, it wouldn’t make sense for them to take on Jameer.
maybe NO is prepared to build around Jameer?
just sayin’
There are a ton of PG prospects in league-wide CP3 trade scenarios. NO mightve figured this helps that Collison/PG prospect/player problem, even tho its not Collison. A definite secondary reason tho, to the matter of fact, of building around CP3 before losing him. This move is a A+ if CP3 stays, and a F- if he leaves, because Collison is gonna be All Star good.
That Ariza guy is pretty good
Damn, it would be nice to have that guy on our team.
I wouldnt say he was bad, he was crazy good in piling up every statistical totals, plus he is always a defensive plus. He just was forcing shots on bad %’s by being one of top offensive options.
By the way, I love this move for Houston, it saves money from luxury, but on the floor: Yao is back, Kevin Martin will be gelling more, Brooks is already here and playing great offense. They defintely dont need for offense now, and Ariza was the most inefficient one. Add CLee to do what he did for Orlando.. Terrific move for them.
"Forcing shots on bad %'s" is part of what being "awful" means.
Love his D, but he has to know his role. Houston needed offense and turned to him, but he didn’t work out. He’s not a good offensive player.
Doesn't need to be with Paul
West and Thornton.
Hornets have plenty of scoring, now they have some solid defense too. This is a solid move by them.
by eltharion_doa on Aug 11, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
True...
but if you were New Orleans, wouldn’t you want better value for Collison than Trevor Ariza?
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
by GameManager on Aug 11, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They're in win-now mode
They have to take what they can get. Given the dead weight Posey adds to any deal, I’m not sure they can actually get better than an athletic wing defender on a decent contract.
by eltharion_doa on Aug 12, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He seemed pretty efficient with LA
Maybe Houston made him look awful by turning to him for offense and left him no choice to force shots on bad %‘s considering he isnt a good offensive player. He definitely shoved it in Hedo’s and all of our faces in Finals game 5 and I like him.
He was very efficient in the playoffs
He was pretty average otherwise.
by eltharion_doa on Aug 12, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he wasnt very efficient last year.
I would take him over Q-Rich in a hot second though.
Really?
He’s a major liability on offense and doesn’t shoot the 3. And that didn’t just arise last year — that’s always been the case. he’s probably a better defender than Richardson, but that’s the only area of the game where he’s got the advantage.
(I mean,, also, he’s making $7 million a year, several times what they’re paying Q. If we were going to take on that much salary, I would hope we could at least find a player who fits the team’s style…)
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Its very difficult to judge
Q-Rich may blow up in SVGs system playing next to Dwight. As some OPP members can attest to, I kinda have a bias toward the better athletes. Next to Dwight and defending LeBron or Wade, I would rather have Trevor. Just my opinion though.
I think Ariza is more versatile than you give credit for. But he never seemed to fit in Orlando’s system, and I agree with the Q/Ariza comparison.
Eh. he's a solid 4th-5th starter.
Like Matt Barnes without the outside shot. But when he signed with the Rockets, they treated him like he was a scoring option, and he couldn’t carry that weight. If some team puts him in the Matt Barnes role, lets him score 12 points a game and focus on D, he can be effective. But he’s been pigeonholed as something he’s not now, so there’s a good chance he’s going to be stuck pushing his inferior offensive game and lousy three-pointers for at least the next couple seasons.
(In all fairness, Ariza is a better passer than Q. I forgot to mention that.)
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
they only attempted to use him as the first option on offense was because he was the only person who could reliably score the ball other than their PG (cant think of his name)
he did immensely better after kevin martin arrived, and would have done well this year if he was the 4th option on offense
Maybe.
I guess we’ll see… I can’t see him getting more touches than Paul or West. (Or probably Marcus Thornton, even.) Stojakovic/Okafor/Ariza as the 4th through 6th scoring options is actually pretty decent.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Hmm, I think you’re right now, because the New Orleans team will probably let/need him go crazy with the shooting. If he doesnt shoot as much/bad, it could be a great move.
Why?
The Hornets have a strong PG who will regulate touches, and several players with a better track record of being more prolific scorers. I’ve actually gotten more optimistic about Ariza not being allowed to shoot the team out of games.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Well, we’ll have to see how much CP3 really controls the shots of others. Thornton is not just quite 2nd option in wing/guard offense, so I can maybe see Ariza taking too much shots again. But yea, CP3 is really good at everything basically, so its prolly a good move bc CP3 knows how to fit it all together. Also, I like the Belinelli trade too, he can defntly shoot well.
I'm hopeful that this will lay most things to rest
Now we can concentrate on the team we have which is pretty damn good as is. Easily a top 3 contender. Paul would have been awesome (don’t get me wrong), but not an ABSOLUTE necessity for a championship.
Even though I’m not a particular fan of the Pacers, it will be pretty exciting to see what Collison does in Indiana with Granger.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
"but not an ABSOLUTE necessity for a championship"
Yes. He. Is. We couldn’t beat the Celtics, now you want to try and beat the them and the Heat? Seriously? With just Dwight? Love the team, we will win 57+games, but you need superduper all-time greats to win in this league. We only have one. And unless he becomes Hakeem and Russel combined as in 35 ppg, 17 rpg, 3 blks, 2 stls, 5 assts then forget about a championship. Seriously.
*shrugs*
Don’t watch the games then since it is apparently a foregone conclusion that there is no chance.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
:o) . . . also, I apologize, that came out snarkier than I intended
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
Didn't take it like that at all
It is a bit depressing though. And I am a Yankees fan who had to live through ARod chocking and finally playing good in the playoffs. But I dont think Carter has it in him. I want to believe it but its just too much. Maybe we were just better letting Hedo leave and try and build off JJ/Lee and Barnes/Pietrus. I really think JJ would be great starting in our offense.
Yeah as a Yankees fan you had to live through Arod's hall of fame career.
I feel so bad for you. / snark.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Dammit, man, stop being so prideful.
You can admit that you were stunned and hurt by my unintentional snark. Really, it’s okay; we’re all friends here.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
by funny80sguy on Aug 12, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
We didn't beat the Celtics. "Didn't" isn't "couldn't".
Except that we did beat the Celtics in 2009. And in the regular season. And in the 2008-09 regular season.
So by your reasoning, the Celtics “couldn’t” have beaten the Magic in the playoffs this year.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Agreed
I believe for this season Paul will not be traded. I thought it was going to be weird if Nelson has his annual team bonding trip and he is still hearing rumors of being traded or gets traded in the middle of the week. Now that would be awkward. Hopefully, we can just move on from this. Now Carter on the other hand…
The trade actually helps all 4 teams involved. If Yao stays healthy, the Rockets will be really good.
"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.
Yea, I agree. We can move forward fully focused on Orlando Magic basketball.
And I also agree about Pacers, I like the Collison/Granger/Hibbert core, with Lance Stephenson, Paul George, Magnum Rolle draft picks that all played great in SL… I think the Pacers murdered the league with this trade.
No rebounding/inside presence, though.
I mean, the deal definitely makes the Pacers better — I think Collison’s overrated, but he’s still a solid PG and a good piece to build around. (And he’s still got three years of rookie contract left… so it’s not like they’re tied up in his contract. I mean, they’re a bit tied up in Posey’s contract, but eh.)
I also like the deal for Houston (Lee’s a better fit for their team than Ariza, and much cheaper), and while I don’t like Ariza and think the Hornets probably could’ve gotten more for Collison, I don’t suppose the Hornets had much choice but to keep Paul happy.
Don’t understand what the Nets get out of this — is there a draft pick involved? Murphy’s a good (if overpaid) player, but the Nets don’t have any plans that include him, and it’s not like Lee’s contract was some huge burden they needed to do something about.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I think losing Murhpy will hurt them abit inside, he is a great rebounder. I agree there, but theres also a lot of young guys here, and Murphy is not one of them (Especially when he gets you Collison in a trade). Hibbert provides some rebounding/inside presence while he improves, and Hansborough/Magnum will have the opportunities (I think they are currently buying out TJ Ford for roster space, for Magnum).
Agree completely with NO’s deal. But it would really suck if, hypothetically, they lost CP3, and Collison became an All Star lol.. But Ariza should never flop as Posey did for that team.
Also wondering what NJ was doing… Maybe they wanted cap space/trade flexibility.. Also, Derrick Favors is said to be a project player so maybe they actually want a vet PF to play there and give Favors room to grow without pressure. But really, I would already throw Favors in there… I just don’t know why they throw CLee away like that and especially after trading CDR to Milwaukee.
Hibbert doesn't have rebounding instincts.
He couldn’t rebound in college, and he can’t rebound in the NBA.
I’m a firm believer in the notion that rebounding is a mostly instinctive ability — I’ve seen coaching or strength training help a guy pull down 1-2 more boards a game, but I’ve never seen a poor rebounder become an actual good rebounder. Hibbert is a rebounding liability right now. Best-case scenario, he becomes not a liability. And even that may elude him.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Not that it matters for the Pacers.
I’m just saying they’re not ready for the playoffs yet… which I don’t think anyone is saying they are. (I don’t know that they’d be more than a 7th-8th seed, even if they had somehow managed to retain Murphy and get Collison.)
They’re rebuilding. One of the things they need to build is a presence on the boards. And they probably will — but until they do, their rebounding performance is going to be ugly. That’s all.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Maybe Hansborough? But he was so injury-riddled last year and is undersized/new.. maybe not actually.. never mind lol.
Hansborough is two inches taller than Bass
just saying
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"This dude is huge....I've got to go home and eat like five chickens and put a lot of weight on. It's going to take a couple months, but seriously." - Marcin Gortat about Shaq.
by NC Magic Fan on Aug 12, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
I think this is a cap space movie for the Nets. Murphy is an expiring contract and the Nets will probably delusionally push for Carmelo Anthony as they did with LeBron this offseason and watch it blow up in their faces. I agree with you that they should just play Derrick Favors since experience is the best teacher and since the Nets were so bad last season, they may as well watch their top draft pick grow.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Dwight played right off the bat too and it was invalueable for getting better. Tho he did average like 12pts/10rbs already I think, donno if Favors is able to pull that already.
Admittedly...
I didn’t see much of Favors at GT but from the scouting reports I’ve read, he’s much better on the defensive end than he is on the offensive. His offensive game is still very raw as he doesn’t have a polished low-post game or a consistent jumper. Although he’s about Dwight’s size when he (Dwight) entered the league, I don’t see Favors averaging 12/10 like Dwight did. Maybe 10/8 but regardless, I still think the Nets should start him from day 1.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Avery Johnson led a team with the best record in the league to a first-round exit.
It’ll be interesting to see what he does with a rebuilding project but I couldn’t be any happier that he isn’t the Magic’s HC.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
I don't see Favors averaging 12/10...
…in college.
Well, maybe he could just about reach that mark next year, but seriously, I’m down on Favors. You can say what you want about Georgia Tech’s system… if you have the ball enough as a PF to post 1 assist and 2.5 turnovers, you have it long enough to score more than 12.4 PPG. He’s a dunks and putbacks kind of guy.
Which can be cool when you’re physically dominant, a great rebounder or both. Favors was a decent rebounder in college, but he didn’t show anything which suggests greatness to me. Likewise his shot-blocking… he blocked a few shots, but I want to see a 6’10" 250-lb. college player average more than 8.4 rebounds and 2.1 blocks before I’m impressed. He had the physical advantage, but didn’t translate that to dominance.
Rebounding in particular isn’t about systems. It’s about whether you can rebound.
Troy Murphy can rebound, he has an offensive game, and he’s way better than Favors right now. Johnson’s call on whether to play Favors anyway, of course… it’s not like the Nets are contending for anything.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Johnson’s call on whether to play Favors anyway, of course… it’s not like the Nets are contending for anything.
That’s why I’m saying the Nets should start Favors. If you’re not going to be contending, why not start the young guy and let him grow? If the Nets were a top-tier team contending for a championship, then I’d start Murphy since he’s more experienced, is the better rebounder, and has a much better offensive game. But they’re not, they’re still going to be a lottery team next year which means they’ll get another high or fairly high pick, so why not let the young guy get some valuable game experience, especially for someone as raw as him? Favors could take a few years to develop, therefore, I imagine it would be better to start the refining process now when the team is still lottery-bound rather than wait a year and perhaps watch the team suck again.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
I don't agree.
It’s not fair to Murphy to sit him for a clearly inferior player. You don’t trade for a guy to insult him like that. And you don’t tank.
I mean, I don’t think it’s even going to be a question, because I don’t think Favors is going to be even marginally competent at the start of the season. Maybe he’ll be good some day, but right now, starting him is just going to frustrate him and turn the fans against him.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
In the Orlando summer league, Favors looked overwhelmed, unprepared and outclassed in every aspect of the game. He had one solid game against Boston, recording 23 points and 11 rebounds in 28 minutes, but over the first four games of the summer he averaged just 7.5 points and 5.75 rebounds, while also averaging just under four turnovers and more than six fouls per game.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"This dude is huge....I've got to go home and eat like five chickens and put a lot of weight on. It's going to take a couple months, but seriously." - Marcin Gortat about Shaq.
by NC Magic Fan on Aug 13, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
“Avery Johnson thinks” are three words that just do not belong in the same sentence. Although I am glad he got a new position, since he irritated me as an analyst.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
He does have an irritating voice. Sort of like fingernails on a chalk board.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"This dude is huge....I've got to go home and eat like five chickens and put a lot of weight on. It's going to take a couple months, but seriously." - Marcin Gortat about Shaq.
by NC Magic Fan on Aug 12, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
F#$*#&$*#&$*#&$#*!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, I didnt have my hopes up. ()$%)(#)$(#&$(#&(#((!*(%#))()$#!!!!!!!
Done
No way does New Orleans trade Darren Collison and say WOW WE GOT JAMEER NELSON!!!! I love him, but come on. Collison was young and dirt cheap. Even though Jameer is cheap. All this signals to me is that Chris Paul will be heading to New York. Effing A Diddy. That new GM is an idiot. You trade your second best player for the 7th best player on a championship team? Seriously? REALLY???? They got zero value for Collison. I am sure the Magic would have taken on Posey or Okafor’s contract for Paul. This is just a bad trade. Fantastic for Indiana. Stupendous. Collison, Granger, and Hibbert could be a playoff team. This offseason is a failure for the Magic. FAILURE. Very disappointed.
How is this offseason a failure?
Out of curiosity, if you had heard a rumor that the Magic could have had Brandon Roy and cap filler for Vince Carter, and the trade didn’t happen because it was only a rumor, would you declare the offseason a failure?
We don’t know if there was any validity to the rumors.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
Not Just Paul
They were not able to flip Vince Carter’s contract for anything. That and possibly trading some assets for a better wing player should have been tried. If nobody didnt want to fine. But that is still considered a failure. The Knicks had a failure off an offseason. They got a lot better and actually have talent but they did not get LeBron which was their goal. No LeBron=Failure. Now that trade of Lee to Golden State actually netted them a whole bunch of talent, but still it is not equal to LeBron. Magic were not able to upgrade any position. There I am not sure if we had a good offseason. Unless Vince dedicated himself to the gym and comes in super ripped drops 20 5 5 again, this season will end in the semi-finals.
Did Chicago become a tremendous team?
I know they’ve improved, but this is the same Magic team that shat on Atlanta & Charlotte in consecutive playoff series. I don’t think the Magic have gotten that BAD since.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Howard obliterates Noah every single time they play against each other.
He also manages to get Derrick Rose to injure his wrist quite frequently too.
Chicago is nowhere close to being as good as Orlando, even with Thibodeau as their coach.
I dont think they were seriously looking to move VC this summer, unless something unbelievable fell into their lap.
Now, this February if the team isn’t clicking like it was at the end of the season and VC is last Jan. VC, then he will be moved. Guaranteed.
You can follow my amazing Tweets on Twitter. Also run the @O_Rena_Chants account.
Who was available for Carter?
Between his contract and his age, Carter is better than anyone who anyone would’ve traded for Carter. We would’ve been stupid to trade him for a downgrade… but a downgrade would’ve been he only thing we could get for him. We had a championship-caliber team last year… there’s always an element of chance in the playoffs, though. Better to retain that championship-caliber team and roll the dice again than blow it up out of frustration.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Mateo...do you know...
everything we tried? Perhaps we did try. You are a the type that confuses activity for accomplishment…
This was never going to happen. Hopefully this ends speculation.
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
I never thought Nawlinz was gonna trade CP3 and that it was mostly fun for dreamers who wanted to imagine D12/CP3 together.
A fun dream, but not reality. Nawlinz doesn’t have to, and probably won’t, trade CP3 until it becomes very clear that it’s their best option.
What I know is that Chris Paul, as talented as he is, is not necessarily going to be the catalyst of a championship team for the Magic. Especially in a matchup against the Heat (if you’re assuming they are the team to beat).
What I also know is that the Magic have to alter their attack to become better balanced (shoot more mid range shots—cue efficiency experts—I’ve heard the argument, I disagree and that’s that) against the best defensive teams. Even though mid range shots are less efficient than 3 balls by a large number, a clean open shot is far better than a contested long shot. Every time. Numbers, on theory, work well here. Reality is a different story. If the Magic are to beat anybody, they are going to have to add some nuance to their offensive game, and that starts with Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Dwight Howard, and Rashard Lewis.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
you shouldnt let one bad playoff series against a great defense make you think that we are a bad offensive team.
we were top 5 in most offensive categories last year
Most of us that have been around OPP any lenth of time have established positions
on traditional lineups versus efficient basketball, just as positions have been taken on visual versus statistical and bass versus Anderson. I think it is time someone took the time and trouble to work up a “bingo lingo” so we can just say “T17” for “we will never win without a traditional line up” or “S12” for "midrange jumpers are inefficient.
Who will take the challenge?
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"This dude is huge....I've got to go home and eat like five chickens and put a lot of weight on. It's going to take a couple months, but seriously." - Marcin Gortat about Shaq.
by NC Magic Fan on Aug 11, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
except we typically get open three point shots, not contested ones
Except typical offense didn’t work against LA in the Finals or against Boston. I’m not saying that Orlando can’t beat any team in the League (including Miami) except LA/Boston.
But, IMO, to beat either LA or Boston, the Magic is going to have to diversify their offense. This isn’t about stat heads vs observation “purists”. This is about basketball and simple logic. There is a lot of space on the court, and Boston was giving Orlando that mid range shot all series long. Orlando isn’t geared towards taking advantage of it, and Boston knew it. If Orlando doesn’t balance their offense better in the future, they will never win a ring. Simple as that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I know that.
But if the Magic don’t figure out how to take those shots and make them, they’ll continue to lose.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And mid range shots aren't the most inefficient shots in the NBA game.
Long 2’s are.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah we disagree.
Which is no biggie, but this is one area of numbers analysis that really hurts in comparison to actual visual analysis IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But here's the thing.
That wasn’t an issue for the Magic vs. the Lakers in the regular season (either year). And while Boston has generally frustrated the Magic during the regular season, the Magic have frustrated Boston right back, and usually won.
I feel like you’ve got two years of evidence in one direction, and two weeks of evidence in the other, and you’re writing the two years off as a fluke.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Nope.
The Magic are one of the 4 best teams in the NBA. But, IMO, and I remind this is MY opinion, to be the best team in the NBA you have to be able to take all comers in all matchup’s. Right now, the Magic are not quite there. I wish they were, but life is quite often not fair.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They're not there. Except when they are, of course.
Since November ’08, the Magic are 4-5 vs. LA and 12-9 vs. Boston.
I don’t think there is a definitive “best team”…
I guess I’d be forced to say the Lakers if I had to guess. But the 2010 Finals were about as close to a tie as you could get. (Not to mention 2008.)
And I don’t believe there’s a lot of evidence suggesting the Lakers can beat a Magic team featuring a healthy Jameer Nelson. (It’s happened once in the last two years. Shannon Brown scored 22 points on 8-12 shooting, the Lakers attempted 7 more free throws than the Magic, and LA won by 6.)
Long story short: I’m not sold on anyone as clearly better than everyone else. Maybe I will be soon. But even then, upsets are possible, right?
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Yep... we should let the season play out and see what happens
Orlando Magic... 2010 Eastern Conference Finalist
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions!!
by Mike from Illinois on Aug 13, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Heresy! No one can beat the heat.
without lemonade and a silver umbrella..
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"This dude is huge....I've got to go home and eat like five chickens and put a lot of weight on. It's going to take a couple months, but seriously." - Marcin Gortat about Shaq.
by NC Magic Fan on Aug 13, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
"best team" is irrelevant
it is all about who plays the best in a 2 month period from april to june. we played badly against Boston, and lost. It doesn’t necessarily mean they had the better team, they were just better at that point in time.
Yeah... Boston surprised just about everyone in getting to the Finals
Everything really came together for them as a team in the playoffs.
Orlando Magic... 2010 Eastern Conference Finalist
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions!!
by Mike from Illinois on Aug 13, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Magic team as it currently stands is still an outstanding team
Will it be good enough to win the Eastern Conference though?
Time will tell.
Orlando Magic... 2010 Eastern Conference Finalist
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions!!
by Mike from Illinois on Aug 11, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions
WIth Carmelo will win the championship
Nuggets trade=billups,anthony, JR smith,afflalo, and birdman
for magic=nelson,carter,reddick,robinson,gortat and orton
The air is thin in Denver
But not that thin.
An unrelated fact
Of all the current stars in the NBA, Carmelo Anthony is the one I would have the most trouble rooting for. Not my least favorite — that would be Kobe. But if (for example) Kobe got traded to the Magic, It’s probably just about be able to warm up to him. (Not that I’d want to have to try. Fortunately, this would never happen.) There’s a lot of reasons not to like Kobe, but he’s at least interesting to watch.
But Carmelo… eeeurgh. What about him is even kind of likable? You’ve got the game (not that interesting/kind of overrated/ball-hog), the charisma (nonexistent as far as I know), the background (Baltimore gang connections, etc.)…
I guess I kind of like Syracuse. I’m from New York, so I have a pro-NY bias in general. Danny Schayes was from Syracuse. Yeah, if I was forcing myself to like Carmelo Anthony, it’d probably have to start there.
Please, nobody force me to like Carmelo Anthony.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
He is the overall best scorer out of his class. Can score anyway he wants and if you watched denver games youd see he delivers on point passes in the lane… thats what you would root for
He can score any way he wants... except efficiently.
Career TS% of .544, EFG% of .478. Above league averages, but only barely.
Which is not to say he’s not a good offensive player… it’s impressive to get slightly-above-average shots at such volume. But in the end, it’’s still a lot of slightly-above-average shots. A lot of people can get those.
Meanwhile, LeBron is up around 60% true shooting… so is Durant. So’s Paul Pierce. (And that’s just the SFs.) That’s a full 7% (or so) above the league average. That’s the kind of scoring that makes a difference… the kind of scoring that opens up leads, and doesn’t just fill spaces on the score sheet. The gap between the quality of Durant’s shots and the quality of Carmelo’s last year was equal to the gap between Carmelo and Trevor Ariza.
As for his passing… 3.1 assists, 3.0 turnovers. Not disastrous… he does have the ball a lot. But anecdotal evidence aside, he’s just about average as a passer.
I’m not going to overstate anything here. Anthony certainly does the Nuggets more good than harm. But he doesn’t do them any massive good in any one category. He doesn’t swing games by making any unusual use of his shooting possessions. He doesn’t manage the offense, and he doesn’t play plus defense.
Of course, it’s possible he could score more efficiently on a team where he was asked to do less. But given that he doesn’t really have a very good three-point shot, he’s fighting an uphill battle…
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Don't think we ever had a realistic chance to get Paul anyway
I could never really see the Hornets trading him. Not with two years left on his deal.
So Courtney Lee is in his 3rd team in 3 seasons
Not a very good sign for the young guy. He’s been unlucky
He's a below average NBA player
He’s never going to be a regular starter on a good team.
by eltharion_doa on Aug 12, 2010 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
which is why Jameer played more than Rafer in the Finals. let’s not rehash SVG planning and decisions during that series…definitely not his finest hour…
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Somehow I don't think Jameer or Rafer's name is Courtney Lee
I could be wrong though, please enlighten me.
Pretty sure we promptly traded him
Anyone can get lucky every now and then, but Lee’s just not very good.
by eltharion_doa on Aug 12, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh.
He’s an above-average defender, solid passer, not a big volume scorer but a reasonably efficient one. He’s never going to be a star, but as a fourth-fifth starter on a good team, why not?
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Because
He’s always going to be the guy you’re looking to replace for someone better. He might stick for a season on a good team as a starter, but the next season you’re going to be thinking “who can I get that’s better for the MLE?”
by eltharion_doa on Aug 13, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Assuming he doesn’t get better, he’s more likely to stick as a sixth man.
I continue to believe that his lack of shortcomings means he’s going to someday be more valuable to his incumbent team than everyone else, on account of knowing the system and being a good locker-room presence. Kind of like JJ. (JJ’s a bit better than Lee in my opinion, but eh, cvlose enough.)
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
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