New Trade. Where the player is confirmed to be available.
by Mateo9399 on Jul 9, 2010 1:26 PM EDT
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OK. So no we will not get Chris Paul, Andre Iguodala, Carmelo Anthony or for that matter any other wing player. Time to come to terms with that. However a posible trade that makes sense to me, is to try and swap Carter for Al Jefferson and the rights to Ricky Rubio. Rubio will never ever, ever, never ever, play in the frozen lands of Minnesota. Now this trade allows Lewis to slide to the 3(yes he has a converted to a PF, but he has to move to the three IMHO.) Start Nelson, JJ(who is not going anywhere), Shard, Jefferson and Dwight. Jefferson may not play defense but Dwight covers defense for everyone on the team. In all honesty it just does not matter if anyone else plays defense. Jefferson could score and allow Dwight to do what Dwight does best: Defend and Rebound. and he will still get his 18-20 points. I know Jefferson has a history of injuries and I am not sure of his commitment, but playing with Dwight would do wonders for him.
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Lewis will get eaten alive by James in the 4 regular season games and the playoffs. Our best bet is the 4-1 offense. It’s likely James will be guarding Lewis on the perimeter and that leaves an opportunity for a mismatch in the post or elsewhere. Time for Stan to get creative and figure out ways to force a switch of Bosh onto Howard A LOT. Thats our biggest advantage right now. Al Jefferson would play right into the hands of the Heat. You allow James, Wade and Chalmers to stay at him on the 3 shooters and you let Bosh bang with Jefferson. Not the ideal way to beat that team if you ask me.
by jonathan.rivera84 on Jul 9, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions
Bosh and Bang in the same sentence?
Lewis destroyed him in the playoffs. Jefferson would make Bosh look like dust in the wind. Remember Bosh is a “lapdog”. You have to get over Lewis not being good on defense. Dwight will have his back. Defensive player of the year. LeBron is gonna get his no matter what. So is Dwade. You are gonna have to outscore them and try and have the role players do nothing. The Lakers win by having Big Bodies. The Celtics beat us by having big bodies. Lewis was eating Pierce alive in the playoffs on the offensive end and his length was a problem for Pierce on the defensive end. Hopefully we get either 1st or 2nd place in the east and have to play either the Bulls or Atlanta. I think the Celtics would still beat the Heat. Paul Pierce plays good defense on LeBron, KG would shut down Bosh and Tony Allen would play good defense Wade. You never know. But I think this trade makes sense.
Lewis will not even come close to bothering Lebron. No offense but that just doesn’t make sense. Dwight will be in foul trouble before you know it after Lebron drives right past Lewis, if not Dwight, Lewis will be in foul trouble.
Bosh is one of the best low post players in the league so yes he will bang against Lewis, he may not be hercules but he will get his and he historically has gotten his against the Magic.
Traditional lineup is not the way to beat that team IMO. Lakers are the best equipped to beat them defensively, Artest can guard Lebron, Bryant will have Wade and Gasol/Bynum/Odom can guard Bosh. Offensively the Heat are going to have the advantage. There’s no way that bringing in Jefferson and allowing the Heat to guard the Magic straight up and letting Dwight get his will beat them. It didn’t work for the Celtics, what makes you think it’ll work against 3 of the top 10 players in the league? 4-1 Offense with more defense on the wings is our best bet.
by jonathan.rivera84 on Jul 9, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Jefferson
Lets be frank. I think Jefferson is probably a better offensive player than Dwight. Also, you have to look at it as if the Magic and Heat will probably have the 2 best records in the East. Maybe the Bulls because of how easy their division is and the nastiness of the Southeast(Wade, LeBron, Dwight, Bosh, Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, and now John Wall all occupy this division. ALso Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace. Yeesh.) Like I said I want the 4-1 but we need scorers on the floor. You have to put the ball in the hoop. Dwight can do all the defense because he has already been doing it. Two years running. Matt Barnes is not a scorer. I would rather have Rashard at the 3 scoring than Matt Barnes making LeBron “work” but still get 30. Rashard also makes LeBron work on the other end instead of roaming. Dwight will get 20 no matter what because he shoots 60%. And he shoots 10 million free throws a game.
Johnson, Smith and Horford are Orlando’s doormats. Realistically, the heat are the only SE division rivals. I agree I’d rather not have Lebron lurking at the 3 but the drop off in defense and the drop off in offense for Lewis if he’s guarding Lebron will be counterproductive.
I like the Magic’s chances with the 4-1 and more perimeter defense.
by jonathan.rivera84 on Jul 9, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong wrong wrong
about Reshard making LeBron work on defense.. If anything LeBron cant roam like he usually does. Ray Allen and paul Pierce make guys work since they are both good iso players. We dont have any wing players who are good iso players
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 9, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Jefferson would clog the middle so bad
You would need a toilet plunger to make room for Dwight to make a move. Bringing in someone like Jefferson totally takes Dwight out of the offense reducing them both to 12 point scorers.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 9, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions
I read that the Spurs gonna resign him, how stupid would that be for him !
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Wrong Jefferson. Read the OP.
Please don't simply ignore the stats when making your case
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Oops, sorry, my bad, had just seen the news about RJ no wonder it didn't make sense in the first place !
That Richard Jefferson story is pretty funny though. Too much data today.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
It won't happen, but I'd love a sign and trade for Scola
The guy can get it done in the post, rebound, and shoot the ball. I don’t remember how his defense is, though.
Actually, it would be great if Fran came over. But he won’t. :/
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 9, 2010 2:44 PM EDT reply actions
Duncan and Robinson
Seemed to work fine for them. I know Duncan has an outside shot, but lets be realistic, we need to Defend and Rebound more than score. You put one on one block and the other on the other block. I would rather have a 4-1 offense but we dont have the 2-Guard or Small forward to make it work . We just don’t. Maybe JJ, he really played great in the playoffs, but we are not getting the elite wing player. So go big. And I refuse to believe we wont get anything for Vince Carter. He has to be moved. Swap him for anything at this point.
They also didn’t have to deal with the Big 3 in Boston. LeBron/Wade/Bosh is going to be a nightmare for coaches. Don’t forget Mike Miller…don’t be suprised to see LBJ or Wade at the point a lot. Matchup nightmare.
Magic’s offense has to force that Trio to double team Howard and if someone’s going to be left wide open I would rather it be rashard on the perimeter or Nelson, VC or JJ from 3 point…Not Jefferson. No way that Jefferson and Howard put up more than 50 points while Wade/James lock down our SG and SF spot.
by jonathan.rivera84 on Jul 9, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, we "need to" defend and rebound?
We were first in the league in rebounding last year, and second in defense. These are not our weaknesses, these are our strengths. What the Magic need, if anything, is more efficient scoring — and to retain the defense and rebounding we already have.
Which Jefferson doesn’t do — he’d be a major downgrade from Lewis on the defensive end. And anything he could accomplish on offense would be negated by the effect he’d have on Dwight’s offensive game.
Of course, all this is assuming Jefferson managed to stay healthy. That guy is injured all the time.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Agreed. Except that the Magic need better perimeter defenders, not necessarily more efficient scoring. JJ Redick is pretty efficient and VC became more efficient as the season went on. VC will not cut it with Pietrus against Lebron and Wade. They are going to get worked and only have JJ to rotate with. Not gonna beat that trio by outscoring them. Their defense is going to be ridiculous with just Wade and Lebron. Those are two of the top defenders at their respected positions.
by jonathan.rivera84 on Jul 9, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
They still don't have a post defender.
Yeah, Wade and James are good one-on-one guys, but if you can get past them, who’s at the basket? Chris Bosh?
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Who's going to get past them?
On a consistent basis?
by eltharion_doa on Jul 10, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Um, point guards? Big men?
Particularly gifted wing players? Someone who has accomplished a pick and roll, or moved without the ball successfully? They’re two men… they can guard two men. And if the opposing team makes them work to guard their two men, will they have enough energy to get back and run the offense?
All I’m saying is, I’d rather have an all-defensive caliber center than two all-defensive caliber wing players. Still a lot of holes in that defense.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Well
Big men won’t get past them, as they’re already be past them presumable – not many big men go on the dribble.
And hey, if your PG is good enough to drop 40 with Wade hanging off him, I reckon the Heat will just take those lumps. And drop 50 going the other way.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 10, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Pittman/Varnado/Anthony
= 765lbs & 18 fouls
Please don't simply ignore the stats when making your case
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 10, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, if Wade's guarding the point guard, that's one thing.
Still, my point is that there are going to be three below-average defenders on that team. Furthermore, that anyone who manages to get open and drive into the lane will not be met by a shot-blocking threat. And you can say what you want about strong individual defenders, but it’s not all binary one-on-one basketball.
Also, two of the team’s three scoring threats are also the team’s two primary passers, who are also the two leaders of the defense. This is the scenario you are describing. I know both of these players are in great physical condition, but if that’s the game plan, even they might get a bit winded…
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Well
I don’t think anyone’s saying this is going to be a lockdown Celtics style team defense.
But there’s going to be a good defensive guard, a good defensive wing – Wade and James will be able to match up 1 on 1 with most team’s two primary offensive options. Sure, they’re not going to stop the odd player going nova and they’re not going to shut down every possession, but they’re going to make it very hard for guys to score consistently, and any time you can force teams to their third and fourth offensive options on a majority of possessions, you’re probably going to be OK.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 10, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Except...
…that their two main conference rivals, the Magic and the Celtics, have very balanced offenses. And if the Bulls get a shooting guard of any talent at all, you can throw them in there too. A setup like this would indeed be devastating against a team that relies almost solely on one or two scorers. (The Lakers, for example?) But if you’re playing the Magic, you have to stop Dwight, Rashard, Vince AND Jameer. You’re going to drop one of them at some point. (And you don’t have anyone who can keep Dwight in check.)
Not saying it’s an insoluble problem… just saying it’s a problem.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Bosh can stop Rashard
I’d love to see his numbers against the Raptors over the last few seasons, but I can’t be bothered finding them. I suspect they’re below his averages.
Wade stops Jameer, James stops Carter. They can’t stop Dwight, no, but one guy isn’t going to beat you on his own. If you’re playing the Magic and letting Pietrus and Dwight do the scoring, you have to feel a lot better about your chances than most.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 10, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Shoulda looked before you wrote. Your suspicion doesn't hold.
Toronto / Season (09-10)
3 / 72 games
33.7 / 32.9 mpg
6.3-13.3 / 4.9-11.2 FGM-FGA
47.5 / 43.5 FG%
3.3-8.0 / 2.3-5.9 3PM-3PA
41.7 / 39.7 3P%
2.7-2.7 (100%) / 2.0-2.5 (80.6%) FTM-FTA
1.67 / 1.08 steals
0.00 / 0.39 blocks
1.0 / 1.5 TOs
3.3 / 2.5 PFs
1.3+2.3=3.7 / 0.9+3.6=4.4 OR+DR=TR
1.3 / 1.5 apg
18.7 /14.1 ppg
Yes, Bosh played all 3 games. Orlando was 2-1. Bosh came in right about his season averages versus Orlando, but that is slightly skewed by the 35 point, 16 rebound effort in the game without Rashard. Take that out and Orlando holds Bosh below his season averages.
Rashard versus Toronto in 07-08 & 08-09? Above his season averages.
FWIW. Not sure how this will translate to having Wade/James on the court, too, but don’t take Rashard out of the Orlando equation.
Please don't simply ignore the stats when making your case
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 11, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Only thing
That’s what Dwight needs to do. I know we do those great and I know we score great, but we need someone to score. If we keep Carter I still think we should
slide Lewis to the three an have him post people up. Remember there is only one Celtic team and one LeBron. I’m just throwing out suggestions. We are not getting an elite win player. We really aren’t. So why not try and go bigger an get our PG of the future??
Need a wing player...........
Need a wing player …….hey, there is a guy named T Mc-gravy, opps sorry I means T Mcgrady is a FA and available; should Orlando sign him before Miami?
He's only good for 5 minutes before he goes to the bench and ices his knees
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 9, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If 38% shooting is "good", I agree with you.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I didn't mean it like that
I mean ‘good’ as in useful/able to be on the court.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 10, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
im almost in agreement with this idea. we have to bolster our strengths vs miami, which for sure is the bigs, and possibly pg. we should strongly consider keeping gortat, at the very least to maintain dominance over any min levels center miami can roll out there.
the other area that might be a strength against miami us pg. however, miami could really complicate this by moving bron to the point and starting miller at the 3.
not sure carter for jefferson gets us rubio. not sure including gortat would either. and, not sure even if we get him, there would be any payoff immediately.
include cory brewer and id feel better about losing gortat!
by thejugs on Jul 10, 2010 12:20 AM EDT reply actions
You think LeBron would move to the point before Wade?
I feel like Wade’s clearly more suited to the position.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Yeah, makes no sense to have James at point
In a team with Wade in it. He brings the ball up for Miami as it is.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 10, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
if you say so…
im not the first person to think of using lebron like magic johnson!!!!
by thejugs on Jul 10, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
We're really debating which one runs the point better?!
That’s crazy. Either would be fine. That’s the trouble.
Please don't simply ignore the stats when making your case
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 10, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I don't mean in terms of running the offense.
I agree either one could do that. I mean in terms of slotting into the PG spot on the team — guarding, and being guarded by, the opposing team’s point guard. And I’m pretty sure that, if the Heat’s starting backcourt does end up being James-Miller-Wade, Wade will be matching up against the point guards.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Rubio
I’m not sure either, but he will never play in Minnesota. Ever. People go their to play for the Vikings and Twins. Not young basketball players, especially not young international players. Besides they hve Flynn and Webster. I’m just thinking of
ideas with players who are available.
Thejugs knows what's up
Hell yah man brewer an Jefferson perfect!!!!!!
Gotat is not the anwser he’s a good backup aaaaand that’s it. Bosh willl kill that man u guys remember what bosh did to him last year in like a 3 min span! He can go like now!!!!
by bigmoo on Jul 10, 2010 3:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We need to add somthing
This could b a good thing it seems like a deal that can get done unlike all the pipe dream trades I read on here! We need too do somthing cause what we have won’t cut it Wade kills us every time we just can’t stop him he get to the he’s good for about 3 fouls on d12 an now we can trap or help too much ( bosh can shoot ) they can go small an run with us with bosh at the 5 taking d12 away from basket an out there he can’t hold him! As of now we are F***** but what Jefferson will allow us to get bigger an he’s no punk he’ll bang this move will make us better it will give us a look we just don’t have right now. Cause if u telly think we can out score them your smoking huge crack rocks! Otis get it done bro please do somthing.
by bigmoo on Jul 10, 2010 3:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
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