Orlando Magic Agree to Sign Chris Duhon for Four Years, $15 Million
by Evan Dunlap on Jul 6, 2010 10:13 AM EDT
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PrintThe Orlando Magic have signed free-agent point guard Chris Duhon to a four-year, $15-million contract, his agent informed Chad Ford of ESPN.com. The 28-year-old veteran of six NBA seasons has career averages of 7.7 points, 5.1 assists, and 39.3% shooting from the field.
As I wrote in my examination of free-agent point guards, Duhon excels as a pick-and-roll distributor, which should make him a solid fit in Orlando. However, a four-year commitment to a player of his caliber seems risky; certainly he's near his peak, and he's a guy who's missed more than 60% of his shots in his career.
That the Magic pursued him is no surprise. As I frequently mention, GM Otis Smith made signing Duhon his top priority during the summer of 2008, but Duhon accepted more money and the chance to start with the New York Knicks over playing a backup role to Jameer Nelson in Orlando. Smith's offer then was three years and $10 million.
The signing of Duhon--which comes exactly one day after Smith responded to a reporter's question about free agency by asking, "what's the rush?"--almost assuredly ends any chance the Magic continue pursuing restricted free-agent point guard C.J. Watson of Golden State, unless Smith sees him as more of a shooting guard. The move means the Magic's next order of business is to sign a small forward to replace Matt Barnes, whose chances of returning now stand near zero percent in the wake of this signing, given the Magic's limited financial resources.
Duhon, as with any other free agent, can't officially sign with a new team until July 8th.
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I wouldn't have like Duhon before I found out he was so effective at the PnR last yr
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
Does this mean J-Will is done?
And is Otis done?
"I just Rashard'ed my pants!!!!"
by Wally Balls 407 on Jul 6, 2010 10:17 AM EDT reply actions
Still need a 3rd PG.
Wait and see on JWill. FA is thin on PGs, he might get $$$ somewhere else. ???
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
by magicfaninTN on Jul 6, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Or simply the vet raise.
Just another option.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
by magicfaninTN on Jul 6, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Orlando probably wants to keep a vet for Jameer
so I think he’ll return if the price is right. He won’t get much anywhere else, anyway. Only worth the Vet minimum, if that.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
4 years is a lot.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Yeah, not feeling that contract...
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
4 years for a player that is 28 years old that isnt great or getting better
wow Otis… just wow
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think this that bad a signing for a servicable back up
Especially when you consider he would be playing in SVG’s system which worked well for other back up PGs.
Not that erroneous of a signing tbh
"To my Hustlers, heres some motivation: He who has begun is half done, why you waiting?"-NaS
Certified Kristin Kreuk obsessive.
1 year is a lot
oh man Vareajo is bleeding! SO WHAT! BLOOD CLENSES THE SOUL-JVG
by D-RAK on Jul 6, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
this
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Your quote is misspelled
It’s “cleanses”. Just sayin’. It’s your quote and all…so I thought you might want to know.
Much rather keep Matt Barnes than sign Chris Duhon. I don’t really like this, it isn’t much of an improvement.
What?
This doesn’t affect resigning Matt in any way, shape, or form.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes it does.
The Magic don’t have his Bird rights, and can only offer him the BAE (approximately $2 million) or what’s left over of the MLE (depending on Duhon’s contract terms, also in the neighborhood of $2 million). He made $1.6 million last year and wants a raise. The Magic can’t offer him one. He’s gone.
Oh...
Forgot aware we don’t have his Bird rights. :(
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
For all things he can't do...
Matt Barnes was our energy, hustle, D and 3. He adds a new element when on the court and between this and C-Lee being traded away last year, I want us to HANG ON to these types of players. I think they are severely needed on this team.
by LastActionZero on Jul 6, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I really want to keep him
Now that I’ve come to the realization that we don’t have his Bird rights, I highly doubt we will now. He’ll certainly get interest elsewhere, and probably for more than what O-town has to offer. I’d love to see him back though.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
He is a little batshit (as evidenced by his lunacy as it relates to Shaq’s wife and a dumb reality show) which is somewhat necessary on such an easy going team. One of the teams after him are the Lakers, if he joins that team I’ll be pissed.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
lol, that they do
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
say QueensBridge!
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Jul 6, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
he shot well from three in the playoffs
if i recall correctly
I'd like to see how JJ guards the big PG's that Jameer struggles so mightily against
but yeah guarding 3’s is out of the question
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
If Duhons contract has 8% raises
The Magic could still offer Barnes a contract starting at about $2.5 million.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 6, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it doesn't
Matt Barnes isn’t a PG, and we need a backup PG. You’re only looking at the money, and nobody outside the inner-circle knows what Otis is allowed to spend. Look at the positions. Smith’s job is to put together a championship roster. So don’t compare the Barnes contract with Duhon’s. Otis will deal with Barnes on another day. He will watch the market and his offers, and go from there. Duhon does take up cap space, but I don’t see it killing a Barnes deal (that would otherwise be possible). You can’t run a team without solid PG’s.
All Otis can offer is the leftover MLE of approx $2.4 million
there is no money in excess of that available under the salary cap.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 7, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Much of an improvement over what?
Over the mummified corpse of Jason Williams?
Don’t get me wrong, I wanted Barnes back too. But we needed, needed a major upgrade at backup PG, and we just got one.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
(Pout)
I wanted Childress for the full MLE…
It's better than the Kicks move
Paying a $100 million for a player that is a knee or an eye away from retirement and who’s leaving one of the best true passing PG’s in the NBA…
"I just Rashard'ed my pants!!!!"
by Wally Balls 407 on Jul 6, 2010 10:24 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, that move is destined to backfire
It reeks of them giving that huge deal to grandmama.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don't mind it
He’s a good backup, and I like the price we got him at. Good pick up.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 10:25 AM EDT reply actions
I don’t think this is a bad signing, because he is a better option than J-Will or AJ as a backup PG. Also, I think the Magic are taking a wait and see approach, because they know VC becomes more valuable when the big names in the FA class are signed, and the expiring contract would allow teams seeking a trade to position themselves for the 2011 FA class. If the Magic move VC they have a lot more freedom to make moves.
He didn't say we were going to make a move in 2011 FA
He said his contract is attractive to other teams looking to free cap space for next season if we were to trade him.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t talking about the Magic’s involvement in 2011 Free Agency – I was talking about the value of VC to another team this offseason and the $17 million in salary he would no longer eat up on the Magic.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I see that now.
I skimmed and then read the last line about having freedom to make moves after VC is gone. If we trade VC, we will likely be more or less set with our roster because there won’t be too many other pieces that we could afford to trade/lose.
No probs
They could move VC for some valuable assets and that would make a whole lot more sense than waiting for his contract to expire while being over the cap next offseason. I don’t quite know who would be the biggest targets for a trade involving VC until the big FA from this year sign.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe he will be traded at some point before his contract becomes guaranteed for the final year.
Only circumstance I don’t see that happening is if somehow he meshes extremely well and Orlando has an outstanding record at the midpoint of the season.
Which is entirely possible actually
I can easily seeing this current Magic squad matching (if not exceeding) last year’s record.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
With how horribly we played from late December to the end of January it is an absolute possibility.
Not to mention all of the 15+ point lead collapses we had (Dallas/Washington) off the top of my head.
Yeah that would be the only good reason to keep him and I’m not sure that is enough, because the midpoint of the regular season is not even remotely close to the most important time of the year.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
He will be waived or traded, yes.
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Jul 6, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Good move.
More info on PGs:
2010 Free Agency The Point Guards by Kevin Pelton at Basketball Prospectus
Can A Poor Shooting PG Run An Effective Pick And Roll? by Sebastian Pruiti
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
Duhon's P&R numbers make me wonder if Gortat's chance of staying just went up.
@BQR, any chance of picking Gortat’s P&R numbers off of synergy and comparing them to David Lee’s?
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
by magicfaninTN on Jul 6, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
As stated elsewere Gortat suddenly became a resonably paid Center this year LOL
with the “improvement” Orton needs to make he should be here for at least 1 more year
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
That’s good news. Add in the available shooters on the perimeter for Duhon to pass the ball to and it won’t matter so much if the defense goes under the screen to stop the drive to the basket.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Knowing Duhon can't shoot
A defense won’t have to. Just let him have the shot.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Fine.
He’s a .362 career 3pt shooter. Would be interested in his % for open looks coming off of a screen.
He only took 1.2 of his 6.7 fga/game between the rim and the 23 foot range.
1.6 fga/game at the rim at 48.1%
3.9 fga/game from 3 at 34.9%
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Maybe the magic have already decided to move shard too the 3, there won’t be enough min for barnes. Duhon is decent and keep the offense rolling I hope he plays better d than J-will.
by MagicNation on Jul 6, 2010 10:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
If they’ve decided to move Shard to 3 that’s a good thing imo…that means a move for a PF is down the line. But letting Barnes go for a backup like Duhon wouldn’t be a good thing.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
This move in no way says a single thing about Shard at the 3.
Big time speculating.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
by magicfaninTN on Jul 6, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely speculation. But it says something about resigning Barnes imo. And if Barnes comes back you are down a 3…I think that’s what MagicNation was referring to.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Agreed but...
it does make one wonder what we’ll be doing for SF if we don’t re-sign Matt Barnes.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Not crazy about that.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Same here
But it wasn’t like Barnes exactly gave us much production at the beginning of the season anyways.
Yeah once he got into a groove and was made a starter, he became a very efficient signing.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Yeah I flipped those...but thats what I meant.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
If I remember correctly Pietrus was floundering as a starter
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Tim Thomas, Devean George, Rasual Butler, Travis Outlaw, Quentin Richardson, Dorell Wright, Jarvis Hayes, Bobby Simmons, T-Mac, Louis Amundson, Kyle Korver.
Not saying any of those are realistic, but they’re about the best of the options. I mean there’s Josh Howard and Richard Jefferson too, but they’re not going near what we could offer them,
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Q-Rich could be a resonably interesting signee
Hit the 3 pretty well last year .397
Doesn’t turn the ball over
Not a great defender but pretty scrappy from what I’ve seen
Surprisingly good post game for his size
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd welcome Q-Rich with open arms...
but I’m not sure how much money he wants though.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
He made $9 million + last year
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 7, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the info.
Yeah, we won’t be able to offer what he’s looking for then.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
That was from an Isiah Thomas-approved contract though
If he is expecting to make that much again, I think he priced himself out of the NBA and any self-respecting European team. I’m thinking he is about worth 2 million to midlevel exception depending on the team.
I like him because he goofs on the Celtics every opportunity he gets. It is just a shame that he can rarely back up his words during the game.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
I like him, yep
Think he’ll get a bit more than we could give him, though.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
most people think that the reason we didnt win the championship was because Rashard is at the 4.
but they don’t realize that if he had played well in the Boston series, it would have given us a chance to advance.
Do "most people" think that?
I feel like a small but vocal contingent thinks that, and in order to make that case, they need to ignore the statistics.
Which most of them do, but still.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
CP3 to Orlando is probably now official dead. Likely Darren Collison, too.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
Vince still needs to be moved though.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Thats fine. And honestly during the regular season VC is fine. I was just blown away at how useless the guy was in the playoffs. And let’s be honest with ourselves…using this season as an example…no matter how good the regular season, that doesn’t mean shit come playoff time if your players don’t step up. I just dont have that faith in Vince.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
It wasn't a lack of effort from VC, he just didn't play well.
When we were getting obliterated by Boston in game 3, Vince was the only person who looked interested in playing the game for Orlando. He scored 12 points in the 2nd quarter, which semi kept us in the game. It was something like a 12 point deficit at halftime, and it would have been over 20 if he hadn’t tried, which was what ever other player in that game was doing (or not doing). He wasn’t the only reason we lost to Boston, and it seems like him and Rashard are the ones getting all the blame due to the size of their salaries. Obviously neither played up to their potential, but we only had one player off the bench give any sizable amount of contribution for the entire series (JJ). Two only have 2 players play DECENT in the same game over the course of a 6 games generally doesn’t lead to wins, and it didn’t because Paul Pierce was unconscious from the field.
Everything you just wrote can be summed up in what you wrote in the first sentence. He just didn’t play well. A guy commanding that much cap space and being relied on for closing games in the 4th, cannot just not play well in the playoffs. That’s why he needs to go. We are team that is championship ready we can’t afford to sit around and hope…we need to make moves that guarantee us a chance to win a title.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
have to disagree
VC didnt play well and he packed it in early. Lack of effort was a serious problem on defense. His off the ball defense was pathetic which led us to be constantly rotating while he was on the court and allowed his man to get good shots for himself or others. I do agree that one game he made a contribution on offense, but when you bring him in to be “the guy” and he shows up for a half of a game in the ECF, you’re probably not gonna win that one.
Really, does anyone, now or at the time, think that Boston was just a better team? (I definitely don’t) If not, then that means people didn’t show up. (plus some horrific officiating, but that is another rant)
by DoubleNickel on Jul 6, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
We got essentially NOTHING
from Vince, Rashard, Barnes, and the entire bench minus JJ. We were most likely the better team, but they were playing well. They got solid bench contributions from quite a few people in different games, and that is what won them the series.
True, but
Gortat, Barnes, Pietrus, J Will, etc are surely not counted on for major contributions every game. Even Rashard is not ever gonna be considered a primary play-maker. VC was supposed to replace Turk (and sold as an upgrade) and he really didnt come close to providing that role during the playoffs.
by DoubleNickel on Jul 6, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
VC was playing Hedo Turkoglu defense in the ECF
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I sure missed all those 1-12 and 2-13 games with 7 assists and 6 turnovers from Turkoglu
but yeah he is sure doing well in Toronto!
by MagicMark on Jul 6, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i know i didnt mind a 2-13 game from turk when he was going to the rim and dwight would flush his missed lay-ups. Better than VC dribbling out the shot clock and tossin up a fade away 3. Both have their flaws… obviously, and while Turk had the retarded look on his face, at least he seemed engaged and like he wanted to win.
How does this affect the (unlikely in the first place) trade?
We were going to have to sign a back-up PG regardless. Doubt the trade happens anyway, but why do you think this deal makes it dead?
FEAR THE MEER!
In the NBA bylaws, each team is only allow one "Chris" per team
I thought everyone knew this.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
by funny80sguy on Jul 6, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good one!
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Otis should have waited until 2011 when the CBA expires to do this deal.
Damn it, Otis.
FEAR THE MEER!
No
New Orleans getting rid of Morris Peterson does, though.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Not crazy for the price, but I like the idea of Duhon as a backup
Since Jameer will probably average about 30 minutes, Duhon would be good for the remaining 18. Also, Duhon would be an adequate starter in the short term when Jameer inevitably tweaks a shoulder or knee.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
price doesn't make a whole lot of sense
I don’t see this player as a 4 year for $15mil type player. Of course the Lakers signed Blake for 4 year 16 million and i wasn’t too happy with that, although that deal is much better than this one. What is wrong with signing someone to the Vet’s min when we are talking about backup duties? Bring up some young buck from the d-league or pay some scrub minimum money to play. That makes more sense.
What makes this deal horrible if true is that Barnes may not be coming back. This makes little to no sense. Barnes brought a toughness and tenacity to your team, something it is very lacking with nice-guy dwight leading your team, with side-kick smurf nelson. I liked Barnes and his futile attempts to getting Kobe riled up, or talking smack to whoever and whomever in the playoffs. Teams need that edge i think.
But all in all, i doubt the Magic season hangs in the balance on such tiny names as Duhon or Barnes. Much larger players wiill decide the Magic’s future, Dwight, VC, Rashard, NElson, ect.
Why do people think that Matt Barnes was the only physical player on the team?
Orlando knows what it needs to do to win basketball games. Toughness is pretty overrated by fans/media.
Matt Barnes was physical but not Artest physical
Artest limited Paul Pierce all series and won a game for him when he muscled his way to a last second off.rebound putback
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Market forces set Duhon's price.
MB’s toughness had no affect on Paul Pierce in the playoffs. So where’s the advantage? Barnes filled a good roll with the Magic, but he’s not essential….you say so yourself.
The Nelson “smurf” remarks are neither necessary nor helpful.
Hope you guys enjoy Blake.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 6, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Market price and the Magic’s need for a good p&r PG that doesn’t play ole defense. The PG defense was a real weakness at times for the Magic in the Boston series.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone watch him play against Rondo? I didn’t but the game logs don’t look too bad. Maybe that was a reason for signing him as well. I’m guessing Duhon is a better defender than Steve Blake too.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely!
Defense is Steve Blake’s biggest weakness.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Yeah that is why I wasn’t really keen on Blake. The back court D was problematic at times with VC and Jameer and the Magic didn’t have anyone to really throw into the game to play D at the PG position.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
Try again. Rondo was held well below his season averages in the Boston series. This is in line with Nelson’s historical performance, which shows him as an average to slightly above-average defender.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
In the ECF the reason Rondo’s numbers were down had something to do with his back problems and team Defense – not the PG defense in particular. However, the point is that the Defense on Nate Robinson was awful when he came into to play. So the defense on the PGs was not great, and the combo of JWill and Jameer wasn’t special, and I don’t even think that is a legit debate to say otherwise.
Come on 3
the reason Rondo ALWAYS struggles against Orlando is because of Dwight Howard not Jameer Nelson
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Howard not going to play for the Magic next year?
I don’t care who keeps the point guards in check. As long as the point guards are kept in check, that’s all that matters.
And yeah, I do believe Nelson is a factor in that. He’s not a physically imposing guy, but he plays smart and is always in the right place. That’s 75% of defense right there.
(I also believe Williams was a disaster on D, especially toward the end of the season. So you can have that.)
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
is paying around 3.75 mil/yr really that overpriced for a backup PG?
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
by stanleygoober on Jul 6, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Duhon's assist and pts. arent great at all
and he’s a backup with a 4 year contract… Those are my gripes
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll agree his points weren’t great, but he was tied for #21 among all PGs in assists per 48 minutes. Sounds crappy, no? How about Jason Williams, our backup last year? He was tied for #27 with Steve Blake. Luke Ridnour? Tied for #21 with Duhon.
Duhon was also #6 in AST/TO ratio. Jason Williams was #7. The guys better than Duhon are named Paul, Arroyo, Calderon, Kidd, and Bibby. Ridnour was #12, Nash #13, Blake #14.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
There's no doubting his passing
It’s his shooting that’s a black hole.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
not even his assist/points numbers make me not like the signing, Simply the years and now we need to find another person to fill the 3 spot
I guess my biggest gripe with this is can Duhon be a better/more helpful player to the Magic than Barnes would be again next year? Hard to compare when its starters minutes vs. backup minutes but I think Barnes is the more helpful player to the Magic.
And here is how I rationalize that. How much better would the team be with Barnes and a slightly worse/cheaper-than-Duhon backup PG vs. Duhon and a slightly worse/cheaper-than-MB SF? I think the Magic are better w/ the cheaper PG and Barnes, although we just tried that and it didn’t end the way we wanted it to. Although that isn’t the fault of either Barnes or Jdub, but more of the collective team.
PG is essential. SF is optional. Simple as that.
I agree I’d like to see Barnes (or someone like him) at SF next year, but ultimately, the SF position isn’t a huge deal. If your SF isn’t that good, maybe you have to play around him a bit on offense, and maybe he gives up a few too many points on D. Not good, but not disastrous.
But if your PG isn’t good, your entire offense sucks for as long as that PG is in the game. That’s doubly true for the Magic because they don’t have a non-PG guy who can run the offense, and triply true because they don’t rely on isolations.
Yeah, I know Duhon will only play 16 minutes a game or whatever. But the Magic cannot afford to spend a third of their game with their offense in utter disarray. Simple as that. Simple as that.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Realistically speaking there is no guarantee that Jameer will last an entire season so the backup needs to be able to contribute as a starter
i still dont get the length of that contract
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh.
You need 3 years to get Bird rights. Might as well throw the 4th on there, if that’s what it takes to complete the signing… the Magic are going to be contenders for at least that long, and it’s not like 32-year-old Duhon is likely to be a major drop-off.
And yeah, having a top-tier backup PG is especially crucial because of Jameer’s injury history.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Not to argue with you.
But some will find it a stretch to call Duhon a “top-tier” PG. Just sayin’.
Though I agree with the notion that Duhon could be serviceable in Orlando’s system if Jameer goes out for a few games.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 7, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
top tier backup is different from top tier pg
he is certainly one of the better backups in the league
That makes sense.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 7, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really
But it is for this particular backup PG. This is the contract I thought Luke Ridnour would get, and he’s much better than Duhon in general although not necessarily for this offense.
Maybe Ridnour’s going to get the full MLE from someone, I dunno.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I definetly would have liked Ridnour over Duhon
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 6, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If he gets the full MLE after the deals Duhon and Blake pulled down.
It will be based on the higher stats he had in a contract year and not on his career numbers.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Ridnour had a good year last year and made $6.5 million
The MLE may not be good enough.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 6, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
End of a previous contract.
Mike Miller made almost $10M last year, but that’s b/c of the player he was when he signed that contract, not the player he was when he concluded the contract. Can’t look at the end of a contract and assume that dollar amount is a player’s market worth (Rashard is a good example of this).
Ridnour’s value is more a function of [low] supply and [high] demand this year plus the fact that people sometimes forget to look beyond one-year statistical aberrations (sometimes known as contract years).
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Um
1. How is Blake for 4 years/16 million “much better” than Duhon for 4 years/15 million?
2. What’s wrong with singing backups for the vet minimum? Well, because you’d have no bench…?
3. Apparently “nice-guy” Dwight isn’t tough nor has any tenacity?
4. How are you trying to insult Jameer when LA has Derek Fisher, a guy who’d be a 15 minute per game bench player as your starting PG?
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Blake is a much better player
For a slightly higher price.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
"Much better" how?
They’re the same player.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Not at all
Blake’s a much better shooter and only a slightly worse playmaker. Duhon shot 37% from the field last year, for crying out loud. We’re going to be so, so frustrated with his bricks this season, trust me.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh.
What’s that, one extra missed shot a game? And that’s assuming that Duhon is inherently a bad shooter, and he didn’t just get bad shots because his team was awful.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
82 or so shots a season
Everything counts in the NBA, you don’t get freebies or to pick and choose when a bad player will cost you. On average, that’s 2 points less per game than if we had Blake – over a season, that might be 4 or 5 games difference. Duhon might get some of that back with defense and playmaking, but still. If we blow a playoff game by a couple of points and he went 1-5 when he was on the court, we’ll notice.
Duhon’s career TS% is .524, which is boosted by his outlier .569 effort the season before last in New York…a team about as bad as the one he stunk things up with this season. So I doubt it was his team causing him to shoot so badly this season – he’s just a lousy shooter. Only once in his career has he shot over 41%, and his average shooting in his career is 39%. He’s only once shot about .500 effective FG%; career his average is 48.5%.
I mean, you can explain away a lot of things but this is a guy who’s been in the league for six seasons and only shot adequately once. He’s just not a good shooter.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he's not a very good shooter.
But Blake’s no Steve Nash either. And I feel like, even if the Magic don’t play a single starter at any point when Blake’s on the court, he’s still just about the fourth option on offense. Anderson should shoot over him, Redick should shoot over him, Pietrus should shoot over him. And that’s assuming they don’t try to get Gortat involved in the offense… I’m really convinced he has some untapped ability in that area.
Okay, it’s also assuming Pietrus isn’t a starter. Whatever.
And when was Duhon on a team that wasn’t awful?
Bottom line to me is this: when Duhon shoots threes, he’s fairly effective. Well, on this team, a) he’ll probably be a little more effective on threes, because there are more legit threats alongside him, and b) there is basically no reason he will ever need to shoot a two. Cut out everything inside the arc, unless Duhon’s insanely open, and he’s a pretty effective scorer.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
The problem is
That out the pick and roll, the open two is exactly the shot he’ll be getting.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 8, 2010 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh.
I’m not especially concerned about that. The main concern for me, after his floor general abilities and his passing, is whether teams have to defend him on the perimeter. The open 2 on the pick-and-roll is tied for 4th with defense.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Or for the Magic offense...
…set the pick higher and shoot a 3.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 8, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
because signing a quality backup point guard is fail
obviously otis smith failed because he couldnt get chris paul
He does have a point, based off of his production last season
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Playing on a horrible team doesn't automatically make him a god-awful shooter
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
True enough but...
when the other guys on the floor aren’t good shooters or don’t command double teams. You won’t have as much space to shoot and you won’t have as many good looks.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
The good news is that his 3 point % is better than his overall FG %. The key for Duhon will be restraint and intelligence in his shot selection.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call that great news
Defenders will just key in on him on the perimeter, taking that away/making it much more difficult. Your 3P% should never be better than your FG%.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Two of the top three three-point shooters in the league did – Kyle Korver and Daniel Gibson. So did Jason Kidd.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I mean all-around players
Korver is a 3 point specialist and Gibson seemingly only takes 3 pointers.
and Kidd’s FG% and 3P% are only .002% different >_>
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
If defenders want to key on Duhon at the 3 point line that should open up some things on the interior.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said he was a good shooter
He is however a good passing point guard, and is above average at the pick and roll.
He is actually a pretty good fit for the Magic.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I live in NYC
I’ve been to a handful of games to know that this dude STINKS. Screw stats. He cant shoot, plays sparse “D” and injures easy. I believe the only thing he does decent is pass… Bad move, O.
every move is a bad move by Otis according to you
so what do you want him to do? he is just a GM, not a miracle worker.
by MagicMark on Jul 6, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Stop overpaying mediocre players
For a start.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
average of 3.75 million for a quality backup pass-first point guard isn't really overpaying.
He wasn’t going to get anything better for his money. Ridnour likely will be signed for the MLE, and paying 5+mil per year to a backup pg is REALLY not worth it.
Why not?
We pay Gortat more than that to play less minutes backing up Dwight. We play Pietrus around that to backup Barnes, a less important position than poin guard.
Anything more than 3 years and ten million is overcommitting to a career below average player like Duhon.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
tell us who is better for the same or less money?
Barnes is not on the team anymore, and Pietrus had a down year this year, after having a solid end to his first season + postseason.
Huh?
What does Matt Barnes leaving have to do with overpaying our backup PG?
If we’re going to pay someone, get someone good. If we’re not going to get someone good, don’t pay them like they are.
I’d rather have Jason Williams back than Duhon. He’s a worse defender, but a pretty similar playmaker and a vastly, vastly better shooter. He’d have been cheaper too.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You didn't get your wish. Sorry.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
No, seriously...
Really?
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
I like Otis.. Chillout.
I don’t have to agree with all of the moves he made… So what?
-Just like you don’t have to leave some negative comment when I post. Stop sweating me, Mark.
Based on your remarks here, it consistently appears that you disagree with EVERY front office move.
Get a better PG than Jameer (‘cause he can’t play defense).
Get rid of VC and Lewis.
Overpaid for Lewis.
Don’t sign Chris Duhon.
Don’t use the 4/1 offense.
Need to move Lewis to the 3.
They don’t play Bass enough.
Howard needs more help than being surrounded by 4 shooters.
I can’t find one single place you’ve left a comment showing you’re pleased with a FO decision. So Mark’s not sweating you, he has a point.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
I love the way you twist words...
“Get a better PG than Jameer (‘cause he can’t play defense)”
I love Nelson, check the posts.. Oh, you did. -But, His height and defense is hurting the team (defensively).
“Get rid of VC and Lewis.
Overpaid for Lewis”
If it would’ve got us someone good in return, yes! -And who foolishly thinks Lewis isn’t overpaid?? HA!!!
“Don’t sign Chris Duhon”
He sucks, IMHO… You like him, fine, go cop a jersey.
“Don’t use the 4/1 offense”
Don’t like it.. But what does playing an offense a certain way Otis’s fault??
“Need to move Lewis to the 3”
I’m with a more traditional offense. Again, what does playing an offense a certain way Otis’s fault??
“They don’t play Bass enough”
Otis got Bass to play PF… So I should blame Otis for his playing time??
Sorry, but get your facts straight… Please.
I find that post by MagicFanTN quoting REP96st funny. Mainly the last one.
“Howard needs more help than being surrounded by 4 shooters.”
would you like 6? maybe 11? how many do you think he needs? I’m just joking around btw, before you get too defensive about my comment. Just tryin to lighten the mood 2 this post. seems a little tense.
Well, here's the thing.
What if we had a PF with very broad shoulders? He could pick up Dwight, and Dwight could balance on his shoulders. He’d be unstoppable in the post, man. UNSTOPPABLE.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
The Magic get killed on the offensive boards by the "pogo stick" PF's in this league
and especially Varejao (god I hate that guy) Luckily Mike Brown was such a terrible coach that he didnt play him enough against us. But yeah despite DH greatness there are more than 13 rebounds in a game. I would like a Magic player to get a couple of those that get by Dwight
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
and only out rebounded the opponents by 3.23 Rebounds per game?
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 7, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure this is sarcasm.
But 3.23 rebounds per game is pretty significant. That is almost like having an extra guard position out there rebounding.
The Magic do not try for offensive rebounds
they hustle back on defense, which is the smartest play you can make in that situation.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 7, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention...
we had the best fast-break defense in the league last season.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Okay -- so your evidence is...
…watching “a handful of games”? From the stands? Where you probably weren’t even focusing on any one player?
Your evidence isn’t evidence, is what you’re saying?
Cool.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
But Duhon is the best playa eva!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTl-wOJvR2I&feature=related
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
im not exactly thrilled about whats going on this offseason.
i will wait to reserve judgement on the job Otis has done, but none of this is making sense right now. so much for the wait and see approach. vc is terrible and will not play any better next year. he is old and the hunger has long faded.
Breaking Magic News!
Otis negotiated for a “No Shoot” clause. We can relax now, Duhon will not be shooting the ball. He will run the pick and roll and be successful…
lol I don’t like this signing, he may be good in the pick and roll but if I’m opposing Defenses I guard the pass and go under the screen daring him to shoot. This is a questionable signing…Close to 4 mil for him…I’d rather go with a D-league player or a PG from the summer league.
by jonathan.rivera84 on Jul 6, 2010 11:21 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Not saying he is a great shooter, but his three point percentage suggests that would be a bad strategy if he is beyond the arc where you are allowing him to have space to shoot.
by Jay C. Besch on Jul 6, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a 36-37% 3-point shooter.
And that’s on the Knicks, a team with few if any other scoring threats.
So if he’s playing for the Magic, and then opposing teams are willing to give him the open three, what’s his three-point percentage then?
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
His career high 3 pt %
Was 39%. His low is 35%, which he hit twice in the last three seasons. His career average is 36%.
I guess it’s possible he’ll suddenly turn into a lights out three point shooter, but I think it unlikely. He’s a borderline efficient 3 point shooter, which is fine, but nothing more.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What I'm saying is,
If you have a guy who’s a 36-37% three-point shooter, you need to guard him closely on the perimeter. If you sag off him and let him have the open three, his percentage gets better than that.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Not necessarily with Duhon
Eddy’s evaluation of Duhon’s signing
According to Eddy, he actually shoots worse unguarded (32%) than guarded (46%). That may only be as a spot up shooter, and it’s probably on limited data, but the point is that Duhon’s not a guy you can just assume will be better in particular situations, because he’s such a wildly inconsistent and overall poor shooter that things just don’t add up.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
OK
But that doesn’t make Duhon a good shooter either.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
lakers and magic seem to be chasing after the same kind of players.
first pg, now both will look to wings. i think dorrell wright and matt barnes are probably the two best options out there, but who knows if they’ll be available, because a lot of marginal players are getting paid a lot of money.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Some of you who are not too high on this move....
…will find fuel for your fire in this balanced take on Duhon from Kelly Dwyer @ BDL. http://tinyurl.com/2clbejd
But let’s not all be negative for the sake of being negative. Let’s examine the move in light of:
(1) Duhon is our BACKUP pg.
(2) Who else was realistically available? Then compare.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Im not good with this salary stuff but
could we clear up enough cap room to get Melo next summer
No.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 6, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Too much money
Too long a deal.
Duhon’s one of the worst shooting PGs in the NBA (TS% @ .501 – Jason Williams, for all his inconsistency, clocked .555), he’s got average range, can’t finish in the lane, and make inconsistent decisions. Is he capable of playing backup PG? Yes. Is he capable of playing backup PG on a championship quality team? Eh…maybe. Is he worth this much? Hells no.
OK, he’s a very good playmaker and he’ll immediately become our best defender at the position and, OK, he can run the PnR but he can’t really do anything else and on a team that was one-dimensional last season, this smacks of putting too many eggs in a pretty small, unstable basket.
I think it’s Otis overreaching for a guy he personally likes without regard for fit. It’s Brandon Bass Mk. II, in other words.
Why make such a big deal about the backup PG and a contract for 3.75 mil/yr during this super-inflated free agency period?
That said, I’d still rather prefer using this contract for Ridnour.
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
by stanleygoober on Jul 6, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Why bother commenting?
If you don’t care at all?
This is the biggest move the Magic will make this summer, I think fans are entitled to have an opinion.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I got a comment for ya
MEH
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
by stanleygoober on Jul 6, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear GOD I pray you're wrong about this being our biggest move this summer . . .
If so, we are in DEEP $h Whever the top FA land the East is going to be MUCH stronger next year while we stay the same (at best) if not get slightly worse?
What about that juicy Trade Exemption Otis has? Is he really just going to let that go to waste?
SIGH . . .
Sigh . . . Now I need new AVATAR!
I think we've seen most of the movement there will be
James and Wade will stick; Bosh will join Wade in Miami.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, blue-blood, how I so have missed your panic rantings
Welcome back, bud.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
Ridnour likely getting more as the top FA PG.
If he’s not willing to sign, it doesn’t matter how much the Magic want him.
Who knows, Ridnour may be looking for a starting gig. That’s not available in ORL.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
DAMMIT!!! I REALLY wanted to see C.J. Watson in pinstripes . . .
and I think he REALLY wanted to play for us too. Why has it been imossible for us to get him?
GS obviously had a PG fetish but why couldn’t we have played a bit more fore a MUCH better player?
The fact that the deal will probably cost us Barnes pisses me off even more and reading that Kelly Dwyer article on Duhon only made it worse!
So far, not so good Otis . . . GRRRR >:(
Sigh . . . Now I need new AVATAR!
CJ Watson's not really much better
He might not be better at all. OK, he’s a better scorer, but that’s about it.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Just wait a few years.
Otis looked at Vince a few years before that trade.
Otis looked at Duhon two years ago in free agency.
Otis looked at Watson last year…..
lol
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
I dunno, I see Watson as a significant improvement over Duhon . . .
His stats are better in almost every category (except 3s), he’s younger (slightly) and he’s capable of having a big night every once in a while.
Also Duhon reminds me of Eric Snow and I HATE Eric Snow! LOL
Sigh . . . Now I need new AVATAR!
Yeah
But he plays a lot more minutes and dominates the ball a lot more, so of course his stats are better.
Look at the per-36 numbers and Watson’s only really any better at converting twos. Duhon’s a better passer, better free throw shooter, better three point shooter, way better defender etc.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Better FT shooter? I thought Watson was better (77% to 71%)?
Also didn’t Duhon play more minutes as well (31 mpg to 27.5 mpg)?
Sigh . . . Now I need new AVATAR!
Golden State players stats are inflated due to the system.
Nellie-ball is conducive to overinflated stats.
Yeah
I didn’t realise how long Duhon started for the Knicks this season.
I’d rather have the vastly better playmaker than a guy who can shoot. But then I’d rather have a good player than either of these two guys.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Paul
if Otis doesn’t get him he should be fired.
I like your line of thinking but you REALLY think we have a chance @ CP3?
Sigh . . . Now I need new AVATAR!
I thought so but the you shoula said . . .
Otis needs to sign the BIG 3 or be fired, lol.
Sigh . . . Now I need new AVATAR!
He isn't.
He was just being sarcastic.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Ridnour, Blake
Raymond Felton…
If you can’t get any of those guys then fine, get someone shit, but don’t pay him like he’s not – which is what we’ve done.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Blake has agreed to terms with the Lakers
and Ridnour is going to command a higher salary than Blake.
And Felton is looking for much more than the MLE.
Plus, I don’t think he’d want to be a backup which he would here.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Obviously
I’m talking about what we should do/have done, not what we did.
And again, the point is that you don’t overplay below average players, not that you don’t sign them. If we can’t get Blake, get Ridnour and if he’s too expensive get someone like Watson or Duhon, but don’t pay them more than they’re worth which is what we’ve done.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you know we didn't go after Ridnour and his manager said MLE or bust?
After Ridnour, Duhon is the best available option remaining. We might have signed him for one year too long, but even at the end of his contract he will only be 32 years old. Most people forget how good Orlando’s system makes people look, once they go elsewhere.
He's worth the MLE
Jason WIlliams is better than Duhon, I’m not going through the entirity of the NBA FA list to find other PGs better than Duhon but when you’re shooting 50% TS, your career shooting average is under 40% (!!!) and your PER last season was 10.7, it wouldn’t be hard to find someone better or at least cheaper.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Williams is a somewhat more accurate shooter than Duhon.
He’s also a much worse passer, an incompetent defender, and doesn’t have the stamina to play an NBA season.
And like it or not, $4 million a year is what an above-average backup costs these days. More, sometimes. Look at Gortat. Look at Pietrus. Look at Bass. You’ve got to admit Duhon’s better than Bass.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
that is a retarded argument 3
Bass and Duhon play different positions and have a huge disparity in MPG
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I’ll also admit the Bass signing was probably a mistake.
My point remains the same: $4-5 million (the MLE, or something close to it) is what an above-average backup costs right now, unless you can land one with a rookie contract. You won’t find a player who you can rely on to be comparable to Duhon for much less than $4 million — you just won’t.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
He's not a "much worse passer"
Don’t be ridiculous. Williams had 6.3 assists per 36 minutes last season, Duhon 6.6.
Duhon’s a better passer, but not outrageously so.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You're factoring the first half of the season in, though.
Williams fell off a cliff in the second half — he wasn’t physically capable of playing an entire NBA season. And I see no reason to believe that’s going to change.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Naturally
If you just go on the first half of the season, Williams is a better passer than Duhon.
After a season off, I don’t think it’s unusual that a player’s conditioning would deterioriate in the second half of a season. We see this all the time with rookies. To assume Williams will be as poor in the second half of a season after playing a whole season, compared to after sitting out a season, when he would hopefully have learnt how to adjust to carrying his body at this age, is a little silly, I think.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh.
Not in my opinion, if only because Williams’ play fell off VERY early. Like, before the All-Star break early. He didn’t even get close to getting through the season. He could get through twice as many games effectively next year, and still break down before the playoffs.
Of course, he did have to start a lot of games in the fall. So that might be a factor.
I will say that I wouldn’t ming having him as the third-string PG, if he’d be interested in that.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Jason Williams had a PER last year of 12.92
and he had an incredible first half of the season. He steadily got worse as the season went on. Williams also gave us absolutley zero production for the entire post-season. He has outlived his usefulness.
Obviously
Chris Duhon and his 10.7 PER is massive upgrade from Jason Williams and his 12.92 PER.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Williams' PER for the first half of the season was close to 16. He was ahead of Nelson for much of the year.
He finished the season with a PER 3 full points below Nelson. He has nothing left in the tank anymore.
I don't agree
I think the rigours of an NBA season caught him out after a year off, and that he’ll pick his game back up next season and pace himself.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
35 year olds dont pace themselves
they wear out, which is what happened
his minutes went DOWN because he was ineffective.
Really?
Rasheed Wallace didn’t pace himself this season?
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
because outliers dont exist
and he is now retiring
Wallace shot 28% from three for the season, before setting the world on fire throughout the first three rounds of the playoffs this year. 40%/48%/42% before 23% in the Finals.
I'm just saying
Derek Fisher does it every season as well. Shaq does too, although his hand injury kinda spiked that this season.
You learn what your body can do and when you can push yourself and how hard. You do if you’re smart, anyway. Maybe Williams isn’t smart, but just assuming he’s not seems a little presumptuous to me.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Derek Fisher just doesn't even attempt to play during the regular season.
Which was exactly what Rasheed Wallace did. They can’t magically expect to just play well every year, eventually they will hit a wall they can’t recover from.
This was also the first season of his career that JWill played all 82 games. Results are probably going to remain constant from here on out. (I would be extremely surprised if they didn’t)
Yeah
Eventually they will, but they haven’t yet, and I don’t think Wililams has either.
You seem to think you can take a year off from the NBA and come back without any conditioning penalty whatsoever. I just don’t think that’s remotely realistic. Williams didn’t suddenly hit one day in December and become magically old, he gradually got more tired over the season as his lack of NBA condition started to hurt him. That’s exactly what you’d expect from a veteran after a year off, and he’s something he should be able to manage with better conditioning, a year of NBA games under his belt and the experience of playing at this age.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't mean
He’s not overpaid.
$4.5m/ season is below average, but if a guy’s only worth the veteran’s exception, he’s still overpaid.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He's worth more than the veteran's exception.
Be reasonable.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Then I think it falls to you to present a reasonable salary package that you think the Magic should have put on the table and walked away from if Duhon said no.
Yes, the deal is a little rich. But it is not grossly overpaying (see also: Johnson, Joe).
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Ridnour, Blake
Raymond Felton…
If you can’t get any of those guys then fine, get someone shit, but don’t pay him like he’s not – which is what we’ve done.The three guys you named are superior scorers, but inferior playmakers. Offensively, I’d take Ridnour over Duhon, consider Blake roughly equivalent, and Felton last.
Points per shot:
Ridnour 1.24
Felton 1.14
Blake 1.12
Duhon 1.10Assists per 48 minutes:
Duhon 8.8
Ridnour 8.8
Blake 8.4
Felton 8.1AST/TO ratio:
Duhon 3.44
Ridnour 3.06
Blake 2.97
Felton 2.65
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Crud. That was supposed to be:
Ridnour, Blake
Raymond Felton…
If you can’t get any of those guys then fine, get someone shit, but don’t pay him like he’s not – which is what we’ve done.
The three guys you named are superior scorers, but inferior playmakers. Offensively, I’d take Ridnour over Duhon, consider Blake roughly equivalent, and Felton last.
Points per shot:
Ridnour 1.24
Felton 1.14
Blake 1.12
Duhon 1.10
Assists per 48 minutes:
Duhon 8.8
Ridnour 8.8
Blake 8.4
Felton 8.1
AST/TO ratio:
Duhon 3.44
Ridnour 3.06
Blake 2.97
Felton 2.65
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I know
The Magic’s offensive structure values a scorer over a playmaker, which is Jameer’s a borderline all star with us despite his low assist numbers.
Felton averaged 6.1 assists per 36 minutes last season, which is only slightly less than Duhon’s 6.6, and posted a 52.5% TS mark, better than Duhon’s 50.1%. Felton’s 3 point % was 38.5%, better than Duhon’s, though it may be an outlier as it was well above his career numbers. Felton managed 13.2 points per 36 minutes – Duhon managed 8.6 points/36, despite both playing starting roles (until Duhon got benched for being awful).
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure Otis reads OPP.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Or has the luxury of sitting around and dreaming about having the pieces to make impossible deals.
In Gene We Trust.
by MoveThoseChains on Jul 6, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
you telling me Cleveland has better trade pieces than Orlando?
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Otis is a failure of a GM because he cannot get one out of the 3 of the top 4 PFs in this years free agency class. HE IS HORRIBLE FIRE OTIS.
PANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANICPANIC
by MagicMark on Jul 6, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Does this make you the new Master of Panic?
I’m sure SVG would be glad to rid himself of that title and pass the belt to you.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
Why Can't We Have LeBron
and Wade. And how did Otis let Stats get away. Major fail. We’ll be lucky to ge Shaq!
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 6, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I would definitely panic about Otis' competence if he got Shaq
I guess SVG could try a Quadruple Tower lineup:
C- Shaq
PF- Orton
SF- Gortat
SG- Dwight
PG- Who cares? I want to see those 4 guys on the floor together.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
Duhon took a big pay cut to sign this deal, given the first year is likely $3.3 million
Season Team Lg Salary
2004-05 Chicago Bulls NBA $385,277
2005-06 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,800,000
2006-07 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,024,000
2007-08 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,248,000
2008-09 New York Knickerbockers NBA $5,585,000
2009-10 New York Knickerbockers NBA $6,031,800
Career (may be incomplete) $21,074,077
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 6, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
He's not good enough to get the MLE
And anyone who’d pay him a little more per year wouldn’t have given him a four year deal, nor be a championship contender.
He did about as well as he could have expected.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
$36m now
Not bad for sucking for a decade.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
3 guys getting the MLE. I feel like the team is paying too much for these role players. If we re-sign JJ, we are looking at about a 90 mil payroll, which would be tops in the league.
Duhon is a good backup PG and should fit in nicely with the team. I’m just wondering how many of the years in the contract are guaranteed.
Thanks Vince.
Eddy's Twitter post... :-(
erivera7 I … am not a fan of the Duhon signing, just taking a quick glance at the numbers. I’ll conduct analysis on him tomorrow at MBN.
I actually thought Duhon was pretty good in Chicago when he wasn't counted on to play major minutes.
He is not a starting caliber guard on a championship contender. But I think he can be decent for 16-18 minutes if he provides solid defense and play making.
Be reasonable people
I’m not advocating overpaying players, but in this free agent market you have to throw a little money around if you want to get anyone of quality. Duhon is taking a paycut to be a backup. If you look at the market, this is probably the best we could have done.
If this move makes you upset, you probably have unreasonable expectations. Duhon will be a servicable backup and will survive when Jameer misses 25 games this year due to injury.
One Freaken Second
by magic fanatic on Jul 6, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Could Be Better, Could Be Worse
This isnt overpaying Duhon. At 4 years its a little longer than I would like but oh well. Now if Otis and SVG could figure out a way to splice Jameer and Duhon together we would have one great point guard instead of a slightly above average (Jameer) and a completely average (Duhon) point. Jameer can shoot and finish at the rim, Duhon cannot. Duhon can pass and play decent individual D….Jameer cannot.
Keyon
Why not Keyon Dooling for an even lesser salary and less years? He brings energy, very solid defense, decent 3 point shooting, and knows the Magic’s system. This is a terrible signing IMO, and I do like Otis Smith. My fans who are Knicks’ fans say that this guy is terrible, and they’ve seen him play for the last two years. A ripple effect from this signing is that we also lose out on Matt Barnes. I just don’t get it, there must be more to come that we are unaware of, i.e. sliding Rashard to the three and/or sedning VC off for someone else.
Break the Curse
Dooling can't run an offense.
He’s never been able to.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Exactly how hard is our offense
-Dribble down the court
-Throw ball in to the post to Dwight Howard
-Dwight shoots
-If Howard is double teamed
-Pass ball around perimeter to the open shooter
Some complicated stuff right there
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a pick-and-roll offense. Heavily pick-and-roll. And it's not always easy to make the proper reads.
You’re oversimplifying it.
Point guard is ALWAYS a tough position.
Especially for a team like the Magic, which doesn’t rely heavily on isos, doesn’t invariably focus on any given player from night to night,, and doesn’t have a non-PG player who’s notable for his playmaking ability. (Unless Vince manages to recover that skill.) In my opinion, the Magic have the most complex offense of last year’s four contending teams.
The Magic’s point guard doesn’t always have to pass the ball, and he certainly doesn’t have to make a lot of fancy passes. (This is a good thing; fancy passes are risky.) But he is expected to call plays and conduct the team’s offensive sets and rotations, almost exclusively.
Given how many of the Magic’s plays involve manufacturing an open shot through fluid ball movement and spacing, rather than speed, brute force or the single pass, the PG’s “floor general” skills are crucial. (Perhaps even more so than his physical passing skills.) Nelson has those skills. Duhon, I believe, has those skills. Dooling has never been accused of having those skills.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
What did Kelly Dwyer say?
This is a good acquisition, for the Magic. A very, very good one, I’d say; and that’s coming from someone who has spent a good chunk of this decade ruing Duhon’s very presence and the strange hold he had on a very good (but very flawed) pro basketball coach and the resulting minutes allotment with a team located in the American Midwest. Chris can play, he can pick up plays very quickly, and he gives good effort.
Duhon and his big boy contract will pick up Stan Van Gundy’s offense, try to make the extra pass, work a bit of quickness in transition, and provide expert defense. That last part will be a huge upgrade on what Jason Williams gave the team last year; because while we appreciated J-Will’s effort in that area, he was still a step or three short in close outs or recovery times.
But he’s also a backup point guard, and often has the ability to work as one of this league’s best in that particular realm. He’s Chris Duhon, he’s below average, and he’ll be working for below the league average in terms of pay. Such a deal.
Duhon replaces two creaky old point guards fo about the same price. He’s not going to be the starter. He is going to play 15-18 minutes a game and do a good job running SVG’s offense and especially the pick and roll.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 6, 2010 2:54 PM EDT reply actions
Duhon's a done deal.
Unless we can get a sign and trade, we’ll have to work with what we’ve got
I actually really like the signing, picknroll master
If at first you don't succeed, try the ^&%^$% harder!!
B+
There’s a lot of things about Duhon I wasn’t paying attention too. I sort of read of his monster shotting slump at one point last year and was turned off. But he’s shot 37% from 3-land when in NYK these past two seasons, and he’s a very solid defender, something the Magic needed. In the playoffs, J Will did not do very much at all offensively but make a solid pass to another player above the 3 point line (VC, JJ mostly), I looked at that and said, ok, J Will is defering to VC, fair enough, but he did it way too much, when he could’ve been penetrating/PnR’ing and giving VC an open shot for once, and to make matters MUCH worse, J Will cannot defend particularly well. I was thinking, at worst, if our backup PG is going to be doing little offensively in the playoffs again this upcoming year, atleast make him stand on his own defensively, or be a good defender.
I see Duhon being like Rafer Alston here, as a better 3pt shooter, PnR handler tho, but a similar defender/role to Alston, a guy who will make solid decisions and cover his man defensively quite well. All of this, except in a 27yr old body and bigger body than the 30+ yr olds Alston, J Will, and AJ, and a much more defensive and PnR handling PG than FA’s like CJ, Ridnour, Blake. Its a bigger fit that I shouldve thought about more before making a quick decision in my personal judgment. Its not a sexy move, but I think it will help the Magic with chemistry and having a solid, defensive PG for once again. Duhon is ready to backup Nelson here, is still just 27, and the 4yr contract shows the rest of the Magic squad this is a chemistry move/roster move to grow/work with.
Also, Ben nailed his PG options list, Ridnour 1st but prolly gonna get paid 5mil+, and Duhon 2nd best option. Ben stated: “Duhon rates ahead of Blake in terms of playmaking efficiency, with the 8th-best Pure Point Rating in the NBA last season.” “Though similar to Blake in a lot of ways on offense, he’s like Blakezarro on the other side of the floor: an excellent individual defender (0.676 points per possession yielded in isolation settings) who struggles to execute team schemes. The increased emphasis on defense in Orlando may help him tighten up, however.” " Duhon rates well as a pick-and-roll player."
I voted for Duhon in Ben's FA PG primer thing a week ago.
I forgot why, but I think it was that Blakezarro comment about his defense that convinced me. I think you just coined his new nickname. Better than my “Another Point Guard Called Chris” idea.
FEAR THE MEER!
Wow lot of whining going on.
I think this was the comment to which I agree the most. Duhon is an upgread to J-Will and that is what most of us wanded even if some would prefer CJ or what not. 4 years for a 27 year old guy sounds about right specialy if he turns out to be a good fit (3 years would be a better option IMO too but it’s ok). Losing Barnes is something I would like for the team to avoid but we can’t always get the players we want. I hope they’ll be some good competion between him and Jameer, the kind that makes both better and can’t wait to see how he fits with the team.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
couple of things I noticed on this thread
1) holy cow there are a lot of comments, and
2) who the hell are half you people commenting???
Anyway, my dad’s in the hospital so I sent him a text about this signing. He thinks it’s a good deal and that Duhon will provide good backup to Jameer. Thinks talk of an overblown salary is an overreaction.
I'm a girl.
thanks
he had a blood clot in his leg but they’re treating it. He’s in good spirits, considering :)
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Jul 6, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Is he at ORMC?
My wife might be his nurse.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
my dad had a blood clot in his leg about a month ago
he got it from not moving around enough after his acl surgery. Hope everything goes well and dont be shy about getting dad to move around when he gets home
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
inactivity is what caused the clot
because my dad has two slipped discs and a pinched nerve in his back. He was supposed to be cleared for surgery on Tuesday but instead found himself in the hospital. He can’t move around, basically, and now he can’t have the surgery for forever b/c of the blood thinners he’s one. It’s a wonderful catch-22 and by wonderful I mean I want to kill things.
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Jul 7, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I know that feeling
I told my dad a couple times when he was laid up after his surgery that he needs to get up and move around but he gave me the pain discomfort excuse. Then bam blood clot which meant more pain and medical bills. Lets just say I wasnt very sympathetic the second time around
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Hope your dag is fine and will just walk out with a free save again
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Best wishes to your dad for a speedy recovery
I think Duhon will prove to be decent as the backup PG.
Orlando Magic... 2010 Eastern Conference Finalist
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions!!
by Mike from Illinois on Jul 6, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks :)
I don’t know much about his game, but I guess we’ll find out in a few months, eh?
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Jul 6, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a good shooter, but runs the pick and roll offense very well and is a good passer
He will be better on defense than J-Will, also.
Orlando Magic... 2010 Eastern Conference Finalist
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions!!
by Mike from Illinois on Jul 6, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Hope your dad gets better soon.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Hey gurl. Hope all is well w/ your dad!
I was thinking the same exact things! Some of these peeps are complete crackheads (I won’t call anyone out but, you know who you are).
I'm a girl too.
Haters gonna hate.
thanks hun :)
crazy people…
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Jul 6, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Best wishes for your dad. I know the fear, but be brave!
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 6, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take this.
I was really hoping for Ridnour, but Duhon is a smart PG who can run an offense, knows the pick-and-roll and shoots the three (even if he’s not an efficient scorer overall). He’s a very solid defender to boot. He does everything the team needs from their backup PG.
The bottom line is, he’s a huge upgrade over J-Will, he’ll ensure that we have a true PG out there 48 minutes a game, and he’s got experience as a starter in the event that Jameer misses some games. Good signing, good signing.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I agree!
Plus, we still have like $2 million left of the MLE.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
I Agree...too
He looks like he has a lot of heart…which I thinks that’s all we have been missing all along.
Patience is a Virtue
by Str8path-to-Title on Jul 6, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh. I don't think the Magic have been "missing" anything.
Except maybe some playmaking in the second unit. The Magic are a championship-caliber team. In the last two seasons’ playoffs, they’ve beat 2 championship-caliber teams, and lost to 2 championship-caliber teams. Seems about fair.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I'm not sure "heart" and Duhon have often gone together, to be frank.
He has something of a rep as a party boy. He’ll miss NYC.
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
by magicfaninTN on Jul 7, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, Redick had a similar reputation.
And who’s shown more dedication than Redick?
Barnes had a reputation for being flaky before he joined the Magic. And who’s been tougher than Barnes?
I don’t know what Duhon gets up to when he’s not playing basketball, but I somehow doubt he’s uncoachable. (He survived four years at Duke, didn’t he?) And if he can be motivated, SVG will motivate him.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Optimistic
I’m optimistic as I’m sure Duhon is about coming to Orlando. He will have a fresh start with a contender. I wonder how hard it must have been to play on a team that has publicly stated that they are just clearing rosters for cap space and don’t care about you. Also, I think Duhon will do better coming from a bad team to a good team and will have better shooters around him to set up.
some of you guys are funny,
all of you guys are talking as if otis spent the money out of your own pockets.
I for one love the deal. he is everything that jameer isnt, so they will complement each other well. he has good size for a pg, which means he wont get as much abused on defense as nelson did.
and secondly what the magic sorely needed is a playmaking pg. for all the great things jameer did, what this team is a playmaking pg to get guys like vc, shard and howard going.
they dont want jameer to look for his own shots, which kind of takes vc and rashard out of their offensive rythim. am i the only one who realized this but jameer never almost never passed the ball to vceven if he was open. so whenever vc scored was when the ball started in his hands, and with jameer calling plays, it started to be less and less as the season winded down also going into the playoffs. Vc was so much better when nelson was off the floor..
what duhon does is give the magic a different look, and i think the magic top 3 players right now, howard, vc and shard will benefit from this signing the most.
nelson is too scoring oriented and that hurts them. looking at all the great teams in the league they have pg who shoot and dont dominate the ball. rondo dominates it but always looks to pass it first.
Van gundy needs to nail it into nelson’s head to become a pass first and he has the ability to do it. the pistons only won their last championship after brown totally changed billups game from a scorer to a passer. and that is the main thing for the magic. vc and shard and also howard if people forgot had two awful games in the 3 first games against the celts.
also i think that otis has a plan, and he has done well in his tenure. the magic are now perenniel contenders, something you couldnt say two yrs ago, so he must be doing something right. and secondly, barnes was good, but the magic have pietrus who is better than barnes. people forget he amazing joob he did against lebron two yrs ago in the playoffs. barnes is good but has serious problems with mid range players like pierce and kobe. pierce ate his lunch in the playoffs and barnes couldnt adjust.
there is still hope for barnes to come back. i dont see a contender giving him more than the remaining available dollars of the magic’s remaining MLE.
also tthis could be a sign that rashard will be playing alot of 3 this year. i dont think, unless they get a different PF, like a haslem or a boozer, that he will start at 3, but that bass and anderson, who will be better will be playing more, and shard will slide at the 3 especially agaisnt teams like the celts and lakers, or teams that are too strong up front. people dont understand how great howard has been considering he is the only big on the floor all the time and he matches up agaisnt the other teams both bigs.
on vc,, unless you get a better player than him if you trade gis the magic are toast. yes he didnt play well against boston, but he still can pour 25 pts as easy as anyone in the league, and is the teams bets playmaker, better than nelson. i think with one year under his belt he will know his role more and be more comfortable with the players and SVg system. with vc its not his game thats the roblem its mental state. he’s too passive, meaning he doesnt demand the ball from his teammates, or steps on anybody’s toes. the guy has capabilities, but needs to be more assertive.
great signing by otis on duhon and im sure more is to come
Good post
have you been dringing?
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 6, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS THIS THIS
Thank you sir for articulating thoughts I could not.
Only 7 different teams have won a title since David Stern has been the commissioner
jeezus that is a fanpost
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
What nonsense
If it doesn’t matter what the Magic spend their money on, I assume you’d be OK with trading away Dwight Howard for Elton Brand?
I mean, it’s not your money, right?
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a backup
Totally fine with this signing…
Only 7 different teams have won a title since David Stern has been the commissioner
I can hear PA announcer Paul Porter now...
… “now entering the game for the Magic… Chris DUUUUUUUUUU-HONNN”
Orlando Magic... 2010 Eastern Conference Finalist
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions!!
by Mike from Illinois on Jul 6, 2010 10:00 PM EDT reply actions
Possible lineup/depth chart for next season
Nelson/Duhon
Carter/JJ
Lewis/Pietrus/Robinson
Anderson/Bass
Howard/Gortat/Orton
It gives us a big front court with Lewis 6’ 10" Anderson 6’10" Howard 6’11" and we can still slide lewis to the 4 sometimes. Bass gets more minutes and makes up for the rebounds we will lose since we lose barnes. Gotta re-sign JJ or we will have a weak bench.
Wat yall think???
Don't be surprised
to see VC at the 3 more with JJ at the 2.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 7, 2010 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions
There's really a lot of flex in that lineup
Looking at who should normally be in the rotation at a position (and who can play it situationally)
PG: Nelson/Duhon
SG: Carter/JJ (Pietrus)
SF: Pietrus/Robinson (Carter/Lewis)
PF: Lewis/Anderson/Bass (Gortat)
C: Howard/Gortat/Orton (Bass)
The sheer flexibility of this lineup is an advantage, since we can be three deep everywhere except PG, and four deep at the 3, 4, and 5.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
We are somewhat 2 deep if Lewis plays the 3
although I am skeptical if lewis can defend other 3’s
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 7, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope losing Barnes wont mean losing some player mouvement. (IF the roster stays that way)
Someone in that roster needs to fill the “cutting” part for the team cause IMO works very well in the Magic system. Just need one of those guys to be willing to run a little more (MP ?). A VC injury would be a problem too.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
People shouldn't be too bothered by Duhon's shooting percentage. We didn't bring him in to shoot the ball.
We signed him to reliably bring the ball up court and initiate the offense while getting our other great offensive weapons involved through pick and ‘n’ roll such. I think that’s all you need from a back up point guard.
Plus...
Jason Williams posted his best FG% (44.4) and 3-pt% (38.0) in a single season in his only year with the Magic. I’m sure our system can do wonders for Duhon too.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Exactly.
He’s not a scorer — all he really needs to be able to do is run the offense, pass the ball, shoot the occasional 3 to keep defenses honest, and play solid D (in roughly that order).
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
But
That’s not what point guards do in Orlando’s system. You have to have the shooting ability to keep defenses honest on the pick and roll, or else you can just collapse on the pick setter’s rotation to the basket, and ignore the ballhandler.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Good job playing catchup on the thread. ;-)
Prolific commenting. lol
_____________________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Williams got steadily worse as the season went on.
While it was slightly correlated to less minutes.
PPG by month.
Oct: 9.5/25.0min
Nov: 6.8/24.3min
Dec: 7.3/24.8min
Jan: 6.4/19.5 min
Feb: 5.7/18.5 min
Mar: 5.2/18.1min
Apr: 2.6/17.5min
What does that have to do
With Duhon being a lousy shooter in an offense designed for a good one?
by eltharion_doa on Jul 7, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I was kinda surprised by this.
Considering the debate happening in this thread – so are many people. I just realized he’s a Duke man, but he mightn’t have played a lot with JJ since he left in 2004.
I’m just hoping his team defense will be up to it, I’m not too worried about playmaking too much because JJ (hopefully he will return) will get some PG duties as well on the PnR.
Good luck to Duhon.
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