As New Information Surfaces, Rumors Linking Chris Paul to the Orlando Magic Begin to Calm
by Evan Dunlap on Jul 25, 2010 8:00 PM EDT
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PrintNot long after it started, the rumor that Chris Paul wants the New Orleans Hornets to trade him to the Orlando Magic appears to be dying. To be clear, there's little dispute that Paul wants to come to Orlando. What's becoming more evident as the days progress, however, is the likelihood of the Hornets dealing him anywhere is remote.
For instance, Josh Robbins of the Orlando Sentinel published this story in this morning's paper, quoting Magic coach Stan Van Gundy as saying the Paul-to-the-Magic rumors are "much ado about nothing."
Later today, Tim Povtak reported that the Magic are likely reluctant to take back the contract of Emeka Okafor--which the Hornets would like to unload in any deal for Paul--even if the deal ultimately nets them the league's top point guard:
Unless the Magic could find a third team to take Okafor – and the four-years, $52 million left on his contract -- his inclusion would hinder any potential trade talks.
If the Magic had Okafor on the roster, it would give them four contracts at or near the NBA maximum, crippling them deep in the luxury tax for many years.
For example, their payroll through the 2012-13 would include Rashard Lewis ($23 million), Dwight Howard ($19 million), Paul ($17 million) and Okafor ($13 million).
The issue isn't that Okafor's a bad player; he's actually quite good, especially defensively. But adding his salary would mean the Magic would have $32 million tied up in two centers who can't play together. It's a valid concern.
There's also the issue of how much leverage Paul has, which is to say he has none. Because he does not have a no-trade clause, and because he won't become a free agent for two more seasons, he is at New Orleans' mercy. An NBA source I consulted reiterated that point, and also advised against listening to anything William "Worldwide Wes" Wesley, believed to be guiding Paul behind the scenes, says. The source also expressed his belief that the Hornets' new GM, Dell Demps, will find a way to clear salary to make staying in New Orleans more palatable to Paul. Demps cut his teeth in the San Antonio Spurs' well-regarded organization, "most recently as vice president of basketball operations," according to the Associated Press report of the Hornets' hiring him.
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Why wouldn't we take back Okafor's contract?
If we traded a combo of these players:
Jameer (8 mill), Gortat (5.8 mill), VC (16 mill), and Ryan Anderson (1.4 mill) or Bass (4 mill)
for CP3 (13.5 mill) and Okafor (11 mill), we would have the same salary as we do right now…maybe even a little less…there’s no reason not to take Okafor’s contract financially.. the only reason would be cause he’d be a bad fit in our system, but if we can pay Gortat 6 mill to be a backup, I think we can pay Okafor 11 mill if it means CP3
No i didn't
other than VC, we have those other 4 guys signed for 2+ years.
Crunching numbers in the head
is not the best thing to do. Here are the details, although I prefer to have them in an Excel spreadsheet:
Year 1 – We can reasonably match the numbers.
Year 2 – Only a maximum of 4 mil will be owed to Vince if his services is not desired. Off the books: 13 mil.
Year 3 – Vince’s salary is off the book but Okafor’s 13 mil exists. We also have to think of resigning Paul. Off the books: 13 mil.
Year 4 – Vince’s salary is off the book but Okafor’s 13 mil still exists. Off the books: 13 mil.
Having all that said, I am not too hard on excise tax, should the other business opportunities warrant extra expense. Here are the issues:
a – Consider that MIA is best beatable in the first year of LeBron, Wade and Bosh together.
b – We will have Vince next season, and probably not the season after except if a different deal is cut with him.
c – Paul may bring championship, and with it generation of extra revenues.
So what is required is a good projection of potential revenues in conjunction with extra expenses imposed. Since I am not privy to projected revenue, I cannot make a judgment call on this.
Ok...
What will the current roster’s contract situation be in 2 years, assuming no changes?
I know it’s unrealistic, but just out of curiosity…
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Jul 25, 2010 8:26 PM EDT reply actions
Assuming no changes, in two years:
Lewis $22,699,551 (unguaranteed)
Howard $19,536,360 (early termination option)
Nelson $7,600,000 (player option)
Gortat $7,528,960
Redick $6,000,000
Bass $4,000,000 (player option)
Anderson $3,234,470 (qualifying offer)
Orton $1,182,600 (team option)
If the Magic dropped Lewis’ unguaranteed contract, they’d be at $45,577,920 with Nelson, Redick, no SF, Anderson/Bass, and Howard/Gortat/Orton. I’m assuming no cap hit involved with cutting Lewis; I don’t know if he has a buyout, or how much it is if he has it.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
They can't drop Lewis. $10 million is fully guaranteed, with performance incentives determining the rest.
by Evan Dunlap on Jul 26, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It other words, it's not like Dampier's (fully unguaranteed) or Carter's ($4 million guaranteed, becomes fully guaranteed if still on the roster at a certain date)
by Evan Dunlap on Jul 26, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. I wasn’t sure how unguaranteed the contract was, if that makes sense. That’s the one thing I wish Sham would include – the cost of buyouts.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
He generally sticks it in the tooltips
If you hover over the name of the guy whose contract you’re interested in, information about when the deal was signed, length and value, and termination/buyout clauses will pop up.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 26, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
for now im not going to read into any of this Chris Paul trade stuff
None of the rumors matter until after Paul has that meeting with the Hornets. The Hornets could persuade him to stay or Paul could decide he indefinitely wants out.
Junk
If this trade does not happen, then there are gonna be some very pissed people. Jameer will be, because no one is coming out and defending him. Dwight for not bringing in another uber-elite player. And Magic fans for not bringing him in. Not to mention Gortat who would have the chance to start. If you are gonna be in the luxury tax might as well go all the way. Because as is, our team does not come out of the east. And if you let Carter’s contract expire, we still wont be able to sign anyone. I don’t see an elite wing player signing for the mid-level exception, if it still exists after the new CBA. I will have lost all faith in the management if Chris Paul does not come or if Vince Carter’s contract is not used for something. This trade has to happen.
I love Jameer
Jameer will be, because no one is coming out and defending him.
It is Chris freaking Paul we’re talking about. I love Nelson. Love him. Will be thrilled if he stays here, but if you have a chance to get the best PG in the league you go for it. I have to believe Nelson understands this as well. It is NOT a knock against him, it’s just that.. It’s Chris freaking Paul!
I agree
I am just saying. He would be a little upset. The dude has a big chip on his shoulder as it is. This would amplify it even more.
Yeah, if anything I think he'll be motivated by it.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
Only some unrealistic thinking people thought paul could be traded here. no disrespect meant.
imo we would have to dump to much for him anyway.Our bench may be our only hope at getting through the celtics and heat and everyone wants to trade it away.
Otis/SVG playing hard to get?
Just another view: Could just be nothing more than positioning themselves to make Paul’s agent find a team to take Okafor if CP3 want to come to Orlando.
Will be glad when CP3 drama is over.
Please don't simply ignore the stats when making your case
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
BQR doesn't want chris paul...always discouraging any excitement regarding this subject
thanks ben for ruining the fun
A person I spoke with earlier about this subject specifically after I read your post says....
he doesn’t believe Paul will be moved this year unless things go even further south rather quickly early into the season, however, this person who you BQR and myself speak to regularly I believe but will not mention his name as I don’t know how much of this he would want me to talk about, says the Magic would basically sell the farm to get Paul. His contention is that Povtak is wrong about what the Magic would be willing to take on in order to get CP3, but as I said, he doesn’t think he will be moved. This person is a very credible source for those of you that question what I am saying, and if Ben can figure out whom I am speaking of, he can verify that.
Thats cuz selling the Barn and Keeping the Tractor means you have a lot of money and a Tractor and thats just cool.
No but really, Whatever pieces the magic have left after a trade teamed up with best pg and the best center in the league is going to make the Rings pour. It’s the Two positions in basketball that produce the most rings on the same frickin team, and the magic have enough depth to lose their starting roster and not lose much since we all know shard isn’t going anywhere.
by David Polega on Jul 26, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
sorry, but PG doesn't produce any rings
when was the last time the best player on a championship team was its PG? Magic with the Lakers after Kareem was old/gone is the last time. Most people on this blog weren’t even born then.
Or Tony Parker, the 2006 NBA Finals MVP.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Sorry, 2007, was looking at the year the season started.
I need more coffee…
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Duncan was the unquestionable leader on that dynasty
No way that Parker is better than Duncan in the 06-07 season.
Regarding Billups, this is a case which actually has some merit. I would say that technically Billups was the best or at least tied for the best player on the team. The problem with this is that it is just a technicality. The Piston team was a team by committee. There were 4 or 5 players who were just as important as Billups was.
What i’m saying is that when has a super elite PG led his team to a championship ring? I mean, a super star that is the best on his team? Parker comes no where near superstar level and Billups is a good player, but no one would consider him a top 7 or 10 player in the league.
Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, etc etc etc. Super star PG’s that led their team to a title? I think the last was Magic Johnson.
Isaiah Thomas
but even that Pistons team was built on back-breaking defense.
I was going to say Isiah, but you're right.
The problem is that a large amount of the champions in the last 20 years have been dominated by Phil’s triangle teams, where the PG isn’t as important. Most of the other teams that won have had very good PG’s. Houston had Cassell, SA had Parker, Detroit had Billups, Boston had a young Rondo. In all of these instances, the PG wasn’t the best player, but who cares? They were still important to their team, and with Dwight on the team, Paul might not be the best player anyways.
How many times since Magic and Kareem’s early days have the best center and PG been teamed together? None, as far as I know, so I’d still be confident with our title hopes if that was the case.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
For that matter, when’s the last time a championship team had a clearly best player that wasn’t an SG? Boston didn’t have a clearly best player, Detroit had a tandem of Billups and Rip. It’s possible the last team with a top-tier player not an SG to win the championship was Jordan’s Bulls, when they were starting Jordan-Harper-Pippen-Rodman-Wennington/Longley.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5956
Here it is broken down. Player with the highest PER on the team was the one picked as their best player. The 2 spot is kind of convoluted because of the “jordan effect” on the spot but you’ll see small forwards win nothing and without the Jordan Effect, your best player being a sg wins you less than your highest per player being a pg.
Centers outpace EVERYBODY.
by David Polega on Jul 26, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
“Now, the picture becomes clearer: in order to be successful in the playoffs, you traditionally need to be built around either a dominant center or a great point guard. "
That part is the portion that directly pertains to what we’re talking about and he’s got the stats there for ya.
by David Polega on Jul 26, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just posted a fan shot that looks at stars and championships.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 28, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Unless Paul demands a trade and becomes a public distraction to the team
and then the Hornets have no choice but to trade him.
by inquisitiveman on Jul 26, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
The most realistic article on the Paul issue since the rumor is right here and it would have himi
going to the Mavs ….or possibly Blazers .
by inquisitiveman on Jul 26, 2010 12:44 AM EDT reply actions
Dont really see how Chandler (been there done that) Ajinca, Stevenson and Butler plus Roddy B
would be better/more attractive than a Carter, Nelson, Gortat, picks, cash and possibly Anderson trade. especially if the Hornets could find a 3rd team to deal and have the Magic send Jameer right away somewhere else for a backup PG and a solid wing scorer.
over 30 mil in expiring contracts alone is enough attraction plus taking on both
okafor AND poseys’ contracts is enticing. Roddy B is very good. Probably the next T. Parker but better shooter. they would have to wait two months(mid Sept) though since Chandler and Anjica can’t be packaged until then.
from what I have seen so far from Roddy, he doesn't look like Mr. Longoria. What is so great about 30 mil off your books when you're hemmoraging money b/c you can't put any fans in the stands?
Or even win a few games? Carter can sell tickets, Gortat is good, Anderson will be very very good, and whomever they can get for Nelson would help. They might not win a championship but they could still make the playoffs w/ the Orlando pieces, expiring contracts don’t win you games, that is all I mean by what I am saying, nothing against you, just wanna make that clear. But thank you for presenting a legit position and a unbiased point of view. I appreciate someone who doesn’t go to the trade machine to rob the other team.
It really depends on what the Hornets want, if they want to save some $ and get a few
young prospects, the Blazers actually might be the team. If they only want to save $, then the Mavs would be it. If they want some players that can get them up and running right now, Orlando would be the fit. From what i’ve read over the past few weeks, the Hornets are supposedly losing $, so they were trying to save $, but who knows. I guess we’ll find out in the coming weeks what they really intend to do.
by inquisitiveman on Jul 26, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Getting a 3rd team is cool, but i see a difficulty in that team wanting to take on
Okafor’s contract, let alone, Posey.
I hate LeBron.
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Jul 26, 2010 2:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's fun to read all the rumors and speculation
…but that’s all it is. Rarely does something ever happen in situations like this.
Kind of reminds me of three years ago when Kobe Bryant was unhappy with the Lakers and was telling people close to him he wanted to be traded to the Bulls.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3082513
Orlando Magic... 2010 Eastern Conference Finalist
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions!!
by Mike from Illinois on Jul 26, 2010 2:20 AM EDT reply actions
If they hadn't gotten Gasol, he most likely would've been traded
Kobe wants to win, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he did everything he could to get out of LA had they not gotten Gasol.
by inquisitiveman on Jul 26, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Kobe would've found a way to get out of LA had Gasol not been traded there
I doubt he would be patient with the way his attitude was to winning at all costs.
by inquisitiveman on Jul 26, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Difference.
The Lakers are bigger than Kobe Bryant. Chris Paul is bigger than the New Orleans Hornets. Lakers won before Kobe, and will after Kobe. They are the Lakers. They held all the cars. The Hornets…are the Hornets.
okafor is toxic waste
This idea that a third team needs to be found to take okafor’s contract doesn’t make any sense. Taking Okafor+his contract is a huge negative. Why would any team join a three way trade in which they will have to swallow the huge negative cost (okafor) while giving another team, in this case the Magic, all the benefit (paul)? Why not take the cost and also reap the benefits by taking Paul? If anyone takes Okafor without taking Paul, then they willl be looking to get rid of a crappy player / bad contract themselves.
+1
if we want paul and and the magic taking in okafor for the deal to push through, i think we should take the risk. i do hope and wish that these SPECULATIONS come to fruition but i highly doubt it. at least not before the season starts. my take is they see how they can improve in the early part of the season and if they do have to trade it will be at the deadline. this lessens the time the new team and CP3 will have to jell. but again, as they say, it wont cost us anything to dream…
i truly believe that the magic could
get CP3 if they really wanted to…but i just don’t think the Magic want to spend that much money and take on that much risk….and i actually think that it’s a smart decision. This won’t make me popular in the room, but i would not do what the Magic would need to do to get Paul. Especially this CP3 who has just come off serious knee injury and major surgury.
Yeah, I don't get where this "serious knee injury" comes in.
He tore his meniscus. It’s not a big deal at all. It’s not like he tore his ACL or something.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
everyone's harping on how bad Gortat's contract is for a backup
Okafor’s is twice as bad. The issue is we already have one bad contract (Rashard). They’re good players, but aren’t bang for their buck.
RANDOM QUESTION
does anybody know where I can find Dwight Howard’s weight-training program? Like his full workout routine (arms, shoulders, back, legs), not just a couple of exercises he does…much appreciated
try this...
i dont think i can do this but if it works for you, let me know.
http://magazine.stack.com/TheIssue/Article/5078/Strength_Training_With_Dwight_Howard.aspx
I want Chris Paul but I agree this is rampant speculation....
as we all already know….I mean they are probably not going to give in to CP3 so it wont matter anyway. It would be nice but for right now, we have to go with what we got and thats a pretty good basketball team with d12 holding down the middle. Honestly, I dont think “Miami Thrice” is gonna be all that impressive but still all the while pretty fun to watch….but we will have to wait and see.. actually, I am more interested in seeing the Amway Center finally completed..
"He is fast, but what I like about him is he looks like one of those track guys that actually knows how to run the ball and has good vision and patience. He is not just running at top speed. He knows when to use his speed, and he has some power and toughness, too.'' Barry Sanders about CJ2K
Dwight Howard >The Justice League of America
by Bonafidebrother on Jul 26, 2010 9:00 AM EDT reply actions
How bad could Paul make it for the Hornets?
Just out of curiousity, how far could Paul push things? Could he threaten not to suit up this season and follow through? Say he’s injured when he really isn’t? I’m assuming teams can sue for breach of contract, but, come on…that’s a lose/lose for everyone, and Paul is still the best point guard in the universe. Eventually he’ll play elsewhere and be a hero, while the Hornets would probably collapse.
Anyway…technically/realistically, what could happen here?
Basically Vince Carter in Toronto
Mk. II. Come out and half arse it.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 26, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The Amway Center is Going to Sell Out Next Season Anyway
In my opinion, though, you take whatever bad contracts you have to get Paul and Dwight together to ensure the Magics continued success. We’re screwed on the cap for the next few years no matter what. The presence of Paul though makes Dwight more likely to stay when his contract is up and visa versa. Paul and Howard all but guarantees we are contenders for about the next decade. My ONLY CONCERN with Chris Paul is his health. Jameer has his own health issues, but right now our team success isnt based on any one guy (other than Howard). We’ve gotten by with Jameer missing huge chunks of a season. To get Paul we will have to sacrifice at least some of our depth and if he goes down our season will go with him. If we dont get Paul or work out a deal for another all star in the next season or 2, when Dwights contract is up, we will have nothing to entice him to stay other than the loyalty card. Or a championship, but those are harder to come by.
This is a players' league
and players could push their weight especially if they are willing to leave some money on the table. There is no point for a team to keep a disgruntled star player. What happens is that they will try to make the player happy by giving in to some concessions. If that doesn’t work out, they will agree to trade him but not always the way he wants. Having that said teams do not want to be marked for mistreating players because that would affect their future success in signing up good players. In Kobe’s case, they gave in to his demands for bringing in quality players (Gasol). NO will probably try the same with Paul to see what he wants, and try to make him happy.
A nightmare scenario
The Knicks could potentially pull this off. Now they would be left with like 4 guys on the roster, but if I am Knicks fan who cares??? http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
This trade would be a straight salary dump, however if I am the Hornets, it is kind of hard to turn down. It would set me ok. my lineup would be:
Collison/Douglas
Thornton/Azubike
Chandler/Wright/Peja
West/Galinari
Randolph/Turiaff/Gray
The more I look at that, the more I get scared. Seriously. That is young inexpensive talent. With the right coach. That is not that bad. Just have Randolph eat some gumbo. Put some meat on that boy and you could grow into something special. As I type this I cringe.
most of those players cannot be traded until the middle of december, because they were just signed as FA's
dont think going to 4 players in hte middle of a season is exactly feesible
Nope
Only Raymond Felton can not. The others can not be traded back to Golden State. A bunch of them came in the David Lee Trade. Azibuke, Turiaff, Randolph, Galinari, Toney Douglas, Chandler and the carcass that was Eddiy Curry can be traded for Chris Paul and Omeka Okafor. New York would pull that trade in a half a second. And if you are New Orleans might not want to turn that salary dumps plus some young talent. That trade for David Lee netted the Knicks some pretty good players when you actually look at it. Almost a good thing LeBron went to Miami instead of New York.
I'll be very interested from a character standpoint to see what happens next.
Paul has always struck me as a classy player and has tried to live up to his obligations. If he ends up pouting for the year to force a trade, that will make me worry about getting him on the Magic despite his amazing talent. I’m not as much of a “win at all costs” guy. I like to have players that I love to root for. It’s just no fun otherwise.
That being said, I’m hoping Paul respectfully asks for a trade but allows the Hornets to make their decision without him forcing the issue. Then when they decide to keep him, I want to see him play to the best of his ability. I think he’ll do the right thing.
Of course he could just do what’s right “for him and his family” as if he had a choice in the matter.
The intensity has to go up, up! Not down...UP! -Stan Van Gundy
World Wide Wes needs to settle down.
It’s kind of amazing what a man can do with some balls and a well-read copy of the 48 Laws of Power.
I think Paul will end up playing out this season
Next summer, if he politely informs the Hornets he has no intention of re-signing with them the year after, they essentially have to trade him.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 26, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
CP3 Twitter
via twitter @oneandonlycp3: “The meeting went well. It was great to get an opportunity to sit down with Coach Williams, President Weber and our new General Manager Dell Demps. I expressed my desire to win and I like what they said about the direction that they want to take the team. I have been a Hornet my entire career and I hope to represent the city of New Orleans and state of Louisiana for many years to come.”
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 26, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions
does anyone really believe that CP3 has NO LEVERAGE? what happens if he sits training camp out or comes back with a bad attitude?
by thejugs on Jul 26, 2010 5:06 PM EDT reply actions
What if he is willing to leave some money on the table, as I mentioned in my earlier post?
Star players have a lot of leverage in the league. When a star player is disgusted enough to put his money where his mouth is, he could have plenty of leverage. This line is not dead yet, but far from it. It all depends on whether or not NO is willing to go over the luxury tax and bring some quality players to New Orleans. That is if any left.
NBA contracts are guaranteed
He can’t leave any money “on the table”. He’s going to get paid the last two years of his deal, at least, no matter what he does.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 27, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
By LEAVING SOME MONEY ON THE TABLE
I meant to refuse to play even if he gets penalized by the league.
If he refuses to play, he will not be paid. He is not that dumb!
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 28, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
They still have him contracted for two seasons, whether he plays or not
If he’s going to misbehave, it’ll be in a Carter/McGrady/Bosh “not are and play badly” way.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 29, 2010 4:27 AM EDT up reply actions
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