Orlando Magic News for July 22nd: Evaluating Magic Contracts, and the Man Who Gave Them Out
by Evan Dunlap on Jul 22, 2010 4:15 PM EDT
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Print- 2010 NBA free agency: Best and worst deals by position - ESPN
Tom Haberstroh of ESPN Insider says the Orlando Magic got "a veritable bargain" when they signed small forward Quentin Richardson, "a perfect fit for their four-out system," to a deal paying him less than $3 million per year. "It's a low-risk, solid-reward move that goes largely unnoticed in this free-agency climate," he says.
- Joe Johnson, Amar'e Stoudemire among worst deals of summer - Britt Robson - SI.com
But Britt Robson of Sports Illustrated isn't impressed with the four-year, $15 million contract the Magic gave Chris Duhon to back up Jameer Nelson at point guard, listing it among the summer's worst deals.
Duhon is a decent defender and takes care of the ball, but he hasn't shot better than 42.1 percent in his six seasons, with a career mark of 39.3 percent. That's not going to foster the spacing coach Stan Van Gundy prefers in his half-court sets.
Robson's overqualified for his job--seriously, he knows the game better than just about anyone else in the media--but I do think his failure to consider Duhon's exceptional passing ability makes his evaluation incomplete. But Duhon's poor shooting is indeed a concern.
- The Worth of J.J. Redick " Pine Rider
Pine Rider takes a look at J.J. Redick's contract in comparison to those of other complementary players around the league (via Ball Don't Lie)
- Ranking All 30 NBA GMs, Where Kahn's Incompetence Is Surpassed - SBNation.com
Mike Prada of SB Nation ranks Otis Smith as the league's 17th-best GM, citing his "spotty" drafting and tendency to overpay free agents. "It's hard to fail when you have Dwight Howard and an owner willing to spend," says Prada, though he praises Smith for showing "faith" in Jameer Nelson.
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Otis is clearly the 2nd best GM in the NBA
…right?
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 22, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Its hard to vote someone that high who is spending so much money. Would the best GM in the NBA outspend every team besides the lakers and not make it to finals?
Its a tough sell. The only 100% solid move that Magic have made is drafting Dwight Howard.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Getting a guard of Nelson's quality locked up for $8m or so a year
Was a home run too.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 22, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Right but your judged on results. All that money for 1 ECF championship doesn’t hold well against what like the spurs did with Duncan or even against what the thunder did last year considering what they spent.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That's irrelevant
You said he’d only made one solid move, which is nonsense. Even if you disagree with absolutely everything else Smith has done, the Jameer contract was perfect.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 22, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that meer in my opinion is the current hang up spot in our offense. He can’t make the inside pass to Howard of the pick and roll with even decent regularity because he’s too short.
And I said the only 100% solid move. That requires you doing “something” to improve the team by leaps and bounds or bringing in that one under the radar piece that brings you a championship.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The screen and roll would be much more efficient if he could throw over the top, its the reason we’re foaming over chis paul right now.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Paul's the same height as Nelson.
Also, Magic fans are excited about Chris Paul because he’s the best point guard on the planet.
Because he can hit the post player no matter what.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong
http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/02/can-a-poor-shooting-pg-run-an-effective-pick-and-roll/
Nelson is the 4th best at hitting the roll man, Paul is 6th. There would be no pick up with Paul, but not significant loss.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 23, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
yeh cuz i’m sure its just as easy to dump to okafor or chandler as it is to howard… Give Jameer Nelson a max contract please he is obviously better at the screen and roll then Chris Paul. You’re freakin’ ridiculous.
by David Polega on Jul 24, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And this is how the Master Debater deals with facts that contradict his assertions?
By falling back on attacking the person stating the facts and statistics? Your coach would be ashamed.
Surely you are saying to yourself “non sum qualis eram”.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 24, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The obviously frustrated implication is that you can’t look at statistics without considering the target man. Though I don’t actually believe you didn’t get that.
by David Polega on Jul 25, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
But at least I look at statistics before voicing my opinion.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 25, 2010 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If you misinterpret a fact there is nothing factual about what is being said. There is more to it like Paul is a betetr shooter so if given a gap on a screen drains it and a better driver so scores if the lane is there.
My point is passing to the inside man more often doesn’t make you better at doing it, particularly if one guy uses howard and another uses Okafor and David West.
by David Polega on Jul 26, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
you're asking for too much
the last two years there were three elite teams in the east with only two possible ECF titles to go between them. going 1 for 2 is not a failure.
by Half-man Half-gortat on Jul 22, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
that is just flat ridiculous
drafting courtney lee, dumping steve francis, signing nelson for less than felton now makes? those are less than 100% “solid” moves?
by Half-man Half-gortat on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The Magic had the 6th largest payroll last year, not the 2nd.
LAL $91,346,449
Dal $87,755,575
Cle $84,909,415
Bos $84,830,421
NYK $84,628,044
Orl $82,085,267
Get you facts straight.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 23, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
Lists Orlando’s salary at 89.855 Million and ranks them second.
Pretty neat that your # is 8 million short, now think real hard and I think you’ll understand what 8 million you left out.
Or otherwise put… get YOUR facts straight.
by David Polega on Jul 23, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
HoopsHype does not have good numbers for salaries
ShamSports is the best available authority. The numbers I listed were for the 2009-2010 season. The numbers you lifted from HoopsHype are sorta for 2010-2011, but are incomplete as well as being incorrect. The 2010-2011 salaries will only be a any meaning for this discussion after the 2011 playoff are over.
In other words, you do not have facts at all.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Two out of four draft picks have worked out.
That is better than most GM’s and downright good considering how low he has been picking.
Pine Rider
Apparently isn’t very good at math. Last time I checked Nelson’s getting paid $7.8m, which means Redick’s only being paid more than Richardson in our starting lineup.
Chump.
VINDICATION!!
OK, I ranked Otis as 26th or 27th. I was only 10 spots off. I think this guys being kind to him. Dare I say there are people on this message board that could do a better job. Maybe not me or you, but think about it. If you had a staff of scouts, Rich DeVos’ blank check book, a new arena coming, one of the best coaches in the league and THE best big man in the game, couldnt you get better players than what we have?
your village called.........they're looking for you
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Jul 22, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Magic Dancers Called
They need another bubble brained cheerleader.
The Magic dancers are probably more knowledgeable with the Orlando Magic organization and how the front office works then some of the more recent members on this blog.
ORL⚝NDO M⚝GIC
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
by Wally Balls 407 on Jul 23, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
that Otis Smith is just an average GM, and probably should be ranked somewhere between 21-25. To connect this assessment with other issues conveyed in this thread, I tend to agree that he overpaid Duhon (regardless of his competency level 3.5+ mil is too much for a back-up PG). Additionally, he miscalculated J.J.‘s projected value in the free agency market (he has this elementary idea to wait and see what the market offers) and had to overpay him since he could not afford to lose him. J.J. would have been happy with a 5-mil per year offer had he received it early, which was my idea all along. His blind faith in Jameer has cost the team quite a bit. Jameer is good but he probably would never repeat that all-star year, and he has often been dominated by bigger/stronger/faster PGs such as the prototypes of Kidd and Billups. I fully supported the trade for Vince after the ownership full-heartedly opened their check book, but has to be mindful of the future of the team by shopping Vince’s expiring contract to either: a) trade for a dominant SG; or b) think about a complementary PF for Dwight’s insurance policy (Amar’e or Boozer could have been good fits). Smith is not a visionary, not a good communicator, and not a multi-faceted thinker.
I agree with you in some respects
But an “average” GM is ranked around 17 or so. Where Otis failed and failed tremendously is a few of the decisions he has made with Free Agents. Giving Rashard all that money is unforgivable, and i think everyone can agree that it is one of the worst contracts ever given. Of course there have been bigger wastes of money, but that’s usually when a player is signed and they don’t play up to their potential. This error is forgivable since you can’t predict the future. With Rashard, he is playing up to his potential (at least before last year), and still it was a horrible contract. Isn’t Rashard the 2nd highest paid player in the league right now?
The other mistakes were Gortat/Bass/Duhon. How much money is tied up in these three? That is a Carlos Boozer or Amare, etc. A max player type at the PF. Bosh would have been perfect for this system actually and his max contract is around $16m per year.
His trade of Trevor Ariza for Cook? Seriously? Ariza turned into a full MLE type player, and perhaps was a key in the Magic losing to the Lakers in the NBA finals.
Basically, he tends to over pay free agents, and fails to think outside of the box. Pat Riley thought outside of the box. Mitch Kupchak with his drafting Bynum and trading for Pau, thought outside of the box. Otis needs to think outside of the box.
This Magic team is missing something. You have an underpaid stud in Dwight. Phil Jackson said if he had his choice of anyone not named Kobe, he would start with Dwight if he was building a team. That’s over Lebron, over Wade, over Durant, etc. You have Dwight, you have money, you have everything. Now, just make it happen. And it doesn’t happen by bringing a washed up loser like VC. It happens by getting an offensive low post presense.
A player like Pau would be so perfect. Bosh would have been perfect. An offensive player in the low post would balance out this team so much. This 4 out 1 whatever isn’t the way.
Unfortunately
The NBA isn’t fantasy land where you get to spend as much money as you want on anybody you want.
The Magic had no way of landing Stoudamire. I’m sure if the Suns wanted to take Gortat, Bass and Pietrus for Stoudamire Smith would have done it in a flash, but that’s not possbile. You may as well say Mitch Kupchak is an awful GM because he could have Chris Paul instead of Fisher, Walter and Vujacic.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 23, 2010 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Average
In NBA terms is 15th, not 21-25.
Otis is an average GM. 17th might be a little harsh given a couple of the chumps ahead of Smith, but he’s certainly not grossly out of place.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 23, 2010 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Average is not mid-point within a group-list
and a few of those in the top ten could still be considered avaerage. And what does NBA terms has to do with it? I just pointed out some of the recent faults, and plyka did a better listing of other perceived gaffes. I subjectively placed him in comparison with others, but nothing scientifically accurate. Place him wherever you want, and he still be avaerage in my book.
How is it "luck" when drafting a good player??
Don’t understand how this guy can continually say teams got lucky to draft certain guys so he won’t give them much credit. If we all remember the Magic had a decently tough decision between Okafor and Howard. If Otis goes with Okafor who knows where this team is right now. Same thing with a couple other guys he talks about. Probably a decent list I guess.
John Weisbrod was GM when Dwight was picked.
She-Mac wanted Okafur. Otis was a scout then I believe.
Otis is a decent GM. Of course being the Magic GM, and having a successful run of results tampers a bit with our opinion of him.
It’s about right, 17th. If I remember correctly he wasn’t GM when Dwight was drafted – so he can’t get too much credit for that.
If he wasn’t gm when Dwight was drafted I wouldn’t have a problem with being second to last behind danny ferry. When your Gifted a Championship centerpiece your job is to make a championship team.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
And Colangelo in Toronto.
That Turk deal was pure win, obviously.
I'm a girl too.
Haters gonna hate.
You have to not win a championship with a player that you should be able to win a championship with while spending twice as much to be worse in my critical opinion.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, Chris Bosh shouldn't have been able to win a championship?
He had a bunch of scrubs surrounding him. Bc the owners are cheapos that means that Colangelo is better than Otis?
I'm a girl too.
Haters gonna hate.
With what Toronto is spending? no. With what the magic have been spending? Yes.
by David Polega on Jul 22, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, LA, Boston, Dallas, Cleveland and the Knicks spent more that Orlando last year.
LA out spent the Magic by $9 million and won a chapionship. DeVos was just too cheap to buy the championship.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 23, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Saying he could have done worse doesn’t mean he did a great job. The roster as it stands would have a lot of trouble winning this year. I won’t say there isn’t a chance because I’m a fan, but to me it doesn’t look like odds are on our side I believed they were last year(I still think the calls were nonsense but i’ll leave it at that.)
And if this is the roster we have with the second highest salary in the league I am certainly not impressed when Howard was gifted to you.
by David Polega on Jul 23, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The Magic had the 6th highest payroll in the league. Lying about the payroll will not change it.
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
"I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them." - Alonzo Mourning after winning the DPOY award
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 25, 2010 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions
There is conlficting sources because of some sources include coach pay-roll, and money their paying bought off contracts etc.
At any rate even if we use your argument of 6th, they are the 6th best paid team in the league with an under paid howard the best center in the league. Still not acceptable to not win.
by David Polega on Jul 26, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
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