Orlando Magic Free-Agency Rumors, Day Two: Magic Turn Attention to C.J. Watson after Steve Blake Signs with the Lakers
by Evan Dunlap on Jul 2, 2010 6:51 PM EDT
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PrintPerhaps the Orlando Magic's patient approach to the free-agency period worked against them in one instance, as backup point guard target Steve Blake has reached a four-year deal to sign with the L.A. Lakers. With Blake no longer available, Alex Kennedy says the Magic "are expected to zero in on C.J. Watson," a restricted free agent, to fill their backup point guard role.
No word on what they plan to offer Watson, but my speculation is that it might take the full mid-level exception to pry him from the Warriors.
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Yeah, that would worry me
2-3 million tops.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
yea but the thing about that is i think the warriors would match it…anything pass 4 million and i think he comes to orlando
Not worth prying then. Too much $$$.
Don’t think we should play GSW’s reindeer games this summer.
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
Ugh! Why does CJ Watson have to be restricted year after year?
To add insult to injury, the Warriors have possibly the most PG-happy coach in NBA history.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
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Well...
There are other options, at least. Watson in no way is worth the full MLE.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 2, 2010 9:38 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed.
That’s why I’ve given up hope of Watson coming here. Ridnour is at the top of my list but he may command too much money.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Who?
Ridnour, Blake or Watson
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 2, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That's crazy.
A guy like Ridnour is worth at least $4-5 million a year, at least to the Magic. I seriously, seriously hope Otis makes this happen.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Our mid-level is/should go to JJ
at least the majority of it
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
You don't resign players w/ your exceptions, I don't think
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 2, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
We need to find a capable PG with our biannual exception
maybe Dooling
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
And if he does, that's a great deal.
Dooling’s not a guy you want to count on for major minutes, but as a third-string PG/SG, he’s quite solid indeed.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Might end up overpaying for CJ
bc after him, there’s no one who deserves to be on our team.
Would you guys welcome back
Mike Miller? Dude can shoot.
I wouldn't object, but he'd probably command too much money for us to offer him.
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
It'd be probably worth the trade exemption from Turk, but he's probably going to get overpaid by some team.
Good Guys Don't use the reply button
by stanleygoober on Jul 3, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I like players like Mike Miller, Linas Kleiza, and Anthony Morrow if JJ gets a ridiculous front loaded MLE/+ offer and Magic just can’t match or must s/t.
by derekk on Jul 3, 2010 2:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess Blake to LA makes sense.
I hope Otis will make a move soon. It would be disappointing to end up with a back up that doesn’t deserve the money or is not of the level we expected. Please don’t end up with Jordan Farmar (I think he’s rumored to the Pacers) or any other Laker.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Definetly worth mid-level
But you just know some team will overpay for him. Love to have him on the team.
"To my Hustlers, heres some motivation: He who has begun is half done, why you waiting?"-NaS
Certified Kristin Kreuk obsessive.
That's a badass move by the Lakers
Blake’s perfect, a massive upgrade over what they had.
Watson’s worth about half the MLE. Don’t think we should pay him more than that. If Ridnour can’t get $4m a season, there’s no way in hell Watson should.
What about Shannon Brown?
He’s an explosive combo guard. I think he could flourish here.
And all the basher’s comments start now…..
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
awful defensively
and he couldnt get off the bench over a 35 year old derek fisher
If we keep Vince then we don't necessarily need a distributor at the point.
If he can create his own shot (i.e. get to the basket) he would be able to abuse most PGs. And team defense is easy with D12. He makes everyone look good. And I gotta say, all these statistics look good on paper, but if that was all that mattered, we would have played Cleveland in the ECF because we had the second best record. Oh and they would have won because they had a better record than the Lakers. There is no stat for what players are asked to do within their offense and defense. I think team chemistry goes a long way. Rant over. And the second wave of basher’s comments start now…
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
Yes, he can "create his own shot".
The problem it is, it is a bad low-percentage shot. It is not a shot we want anyone taking.
Did you see Vince last year? I know the plan was for him to be a major distributor, but he did not do it. Maybe he will be better this year, but we can’t count on it. (Anyway, do you really think the Magic want to stagger the lineup so that either their starting PG or their starting SG is on the court at all times?)
And the Lakers did not win the title because of Shannon Brown (or Derek Fisher, or Jordan Farmar, or Luke Walton, or Adam Morrison, or whoever.) They won the title because of their good players, and because they happened to have some good games near the end of the season. (And, let’s face it, the lack of really strong teams in the West probably helped their chances.)
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
My point exactly.
They won because of chemistry, a streak at the right time, Kobe and Phil. No not because of Brown. But really. What were his responsibilities in the triangle? I think he did what was asked of him.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
I should hope 42% shooting on mostly drives to the basket wasn't what was asked of him.
Who would ask for that?
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
He's a great jumper.
Not so good at basketball, though. A slasher like Brown really should be averaging better than 42.7% shooting, or more than more than 8 points in 20 minutes a game, or both. And yeah, he doesn’t defend or pass, and his three-point shot barely exists. Barely.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Steve Blake is a Laker................
Steve Blake just agree verbally with the LA Lakers to a 4 year/ 16 M deal.
If he didn't accept a backup role for us last offseason...
why would he take one this year?
I'm a dude!
Orlando Pinstriped Post: Where game threads turn into online chat rooms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlLyVuMf7U
Terrible
44.3% True Shooting, 8.2 PER, 16.5% Turnover rate last season. With the Magic, those numbers were 50.9, 15.6, and 13.2, respectively. He’s done.
I’m for it, but it’d have to be a much more mature Alston than whatever problem he was in with Miami and also a lot cheaper because he was not wanted by us at 5 mil. So maybe, Alston states his commitment to be a backup to Meer and then offers to take BAE-ish money, then I can see it and would like it to happen.
by derekk on Jul 3, 2010 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just curious, would you factor in playing for NJ into his stats last season?
If not, why not?
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
He was awful with both teams. And I omitted his AST rate because there weren't many assists to be had on that team.
Still, he did little to inspire confidence.
Re-sign JJ and sign JJ.........
The first priority of Orlando should be re-signed JJ Redick again, then sign JJ Barea (from Dallas) via free agency so The Magic can have 4x’s JJ in the team, it would be funny to see JJ and JJ playing together. Your thoughts.
Is Barea a FA??? If so, I would really grab him. He’s still semi-young and peaking and I love his game. He can shoot and be very aggressive. He wouldn’t always just take it up the floor and pass it from the top of the key to someone next to him, he will attack and make something happen.
by derekk on Jul 3, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, he's not
Mavs used their team option and brought him back.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 3, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Lakers have Fisher’s bird rights so I expect something done there soon, but if it doesn’t happen for whatever reason, I think Fisher would make a helluva impact backing up Meer. He’s slower now but will do well with fewer minutes, understands team defensive schemes better than anyone else in the league, is big and cam defend the bigger PGs who like to use stregnth and post ups, can shoot 3’s very well and still make a drive as we seen in the playoffs, is a distributor and veteran savvy player. It’d be a homerun move to get him for 2, maybe 3 years as far as support moves go. But again, I’m expecting Lakers to resign him too so we’ll have to see.
by derekk on Jul 3, 2010 2:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Fisher hasn't been able to run an offense or shoot the ball in years.
2.5 assists in 27 minutes a game this season, 38% from the field, 34% for three. And his defense, it goes without saying, is lousy. He does nothing well at this point.
I know there’s this weird tendency to overrate him because he’s lucky enough to play for a good team, but he’s been done for several years. Remember how Jameer repeatedly attacked him and won us those games in 2008-09? Lakers have been winning despite Fisher’s horrible basketball, not because of Fisher’s horrible basketball.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
this
all fisher is asked to do is hit one or two clutch shots in the postseason (which he has done) but that is it
exactly
the one thing the stats don’t show is his knack for always seeming to hit a huge shot when it matters most. But he’s 35, so let’s get real.
Yeah, the stats don't show that.
Stats don’t show imaginary things.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I wouldn’t have him on the top of my backup PG wishlist, nor sign him for more than 2, maybe 3 years, but I think Fisher is an excellent PG with a high IQ and champion experience, and he is a clutch shooter, its undeniable. He’s slow, but he understands team D and would still defend bigger guards better than Jameer. He always did a terrific job with the spacing on defense, he’d always bother Dwight on postups without Dwight seeing a chance to pass to his shooter that Fisher lagged off. It’s very realistic to see Fisher get the down-the-stretch minutes over Steve Blake in another Lakers-Magic series, so in a zero sum game, no nore Fisher is a good move.
"Clutch shooter" isn't a real thing, though.
Every study of basketball shooting percentages shows the same thing: “clutch” situation shooting percentage (as compared to overall percentages) isn’t consistent in any way. There’s no correlation between players’ “clutch” shooting stats in one year and their “clutch” shooting stats in the next year — it’s totally random, and the effect disappears as soon as sample size increases to statistically significant levels.
(Anyway, if you had a point guard in there who was shooting better than 38/34%, your “clutch” situation would be a comfortable win in the first place.)
And yeah, the Lakers have made stupid decisions about Fisher for years, so they’ll probably keep doing that. It certainly plays right into our hands, if we can get that far. Of course, in previous years, all their backup points have been just as bad as Fisher, so it’s no difference. But if there’s any chance the Lakers keeping Fisher is going to cut into Blake’s playing time, hey, go right on ahead. Blake’s way better at approximately everything, so if the Magic can keep a lousy guy like Fisher on the floor for LA, good work.
And don’t talk to me about Fisher’s defense. Did you see what Jameer regularly did to him, especially late in games? He’s a liability on D, a huge one. Maybe he can defend “bigger guards” (whatever that means) better than Jameer, but:
a) he’s too slow to even defend Jameer, who’s a gifted offensive player but far from the fastest point in the league,
b) Jameer isn’t a defensive liability (please don’t argue on this — the stats are pretty clear on this matter), and
c) what is this obsession with the backup PG’s defense? The backup PG mostly plays opposite the other team’s backup PG. You don’t play guys because of the 6 minutes or whatever when they’re facing a specific opponent, you don’t play guys to defend the other team’s backups, and (most importantly) you don’t disrupt the consistency of your rotation, especially not to bench your All-Stars for a guy who averages an assist per quarter, and whose age and shooting percentage are rapidly approaching each other.
At point guard, no less.
(Though Fisher can’t run an offense, so maybe he’s okay?)
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Eh, I think you’re starting to convince me, but at the same time, there’s got to be somethings you’re underrating here too, this is a guy the Lakers trusted to start and play down the stretch, and he has the rings.
Yeah, especially if you're sarcastically saying something that's right.
Players have bad games on all teams, even winning ones. Bad players have bad games consistently. If you put a bad player on a winning team, odds are he’ll have bad games, and the team will win. It’s nothing unusual.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I already told you, as much as I read and appreciate your analysis, I’d rather be a naïve who believes in “playoff time”, “clutch shooters” and plays that get me off my seat compare to great stats.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Well, if you don't want to have the discussion, don't get into the discussion.
That’s always been the part I don’t get. If you want to remain deliberately ignorant of what’s going on, more power to you. But you then have to acknowledge that, instead of behaving as though your uninformed opinion is still equally valid.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
The point of being here is take part of any discusion, in any way.
I know my english sucks but naïve and ignorant isn’t quite the same thing. This is site for Magic fans, not only analysts. I like reading people backin’ points with stats (and I do it myself when I have the time) but most times as a fan is more about the feeling I get from the games. You can make a case about Fisher beeing a bad player by looking at his stats but I sure think LA are more than glad to have him around. There are many ex. and I’m sure you remember some (watching certain games not only looking at their stats) but there is no way in hell I’m gonna defend Fish in a Magic blog. And I never behave as my opinin is “valid” whatever that means, I’m just here to discuss about a topic I enjoy with guys that share the same interest.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Nope.
They’re a good team that has some bad players. They have Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Artest, and Odom — a core that is tough to match up against. They also have some players who aren’t as good.
Fisher doesn’t need to run the offense because Kobe runs it. (And because the Lakers play an offense that doesn’t route the ball through one player, and because their reliance on isos/post scoring/players making their own shots means there’s not as much orchestration of moves anyway.)
Fisher doesn’t need to score because the Lakers have a bunch of scorers.
And Fisher’s defensive struggles are camouflaged by the fact that he plays alongside one of the league’s best backcourt defenders in Kobe, and in front of a fearsome collection of big men. All he needs to do is stay in front of his man long enough to slow that man down.
When you’re saying Fisher is “a guy the Lakers trusted to start and play down the stretch,” that raises the question: what else were the Lakers going to do? Farmar wasn’t challenging for the job…
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Hell no..
Fisher can’t back the escalade out of his garage. He’s done, 35 and getting slower. I’d rather see Dooling in uniform.
The Magic needs another big man that is able to contribute and play along side Howard. Not more guards.
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Jul 4, 2010 12:03 AM EDT reply actions
Let's see...
PF/C under contract: Lewis, Anderson, Bass, Howard, Gortat, Orton
G under contract: Jameer, Vince
I think we could use a couple guards.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Jul 4, 2010 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
As of now, though, we're relying on MP at the 3
Sure, we can shuffle guys around, but even going for the most guard-heavy, big-light roster gets you three guards (Nelson, VC, MP), two SF (Lewis, Robinson), and five bigs (Anderson, Bass, Howard, Gortat, Orton). Neither you nor I believe that’s what SVG wants from his lineup, and the guard FA group is probably a bit deeper than the SF FA group, so I’d prefer to consider MP a SF at this point.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
we need a lot
I was over confident ast year going into the season, this year i went ahead and spent the 3 grand to get season tikets, they better be worth it
Watson played as many games as Nelson only 1 less minute per game and got to the free throw line 50 times more than Nelson did last year in a back up role on a team over loaded with guards.
oh man Vareajo is bleeding! SO WHAT! BLOOD CLENSES THE SOUL-JVG
Yep.
That’s generally what happens when driving to the basket is your only tangible skill. Shame he’s worse at everything else.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Indeed
but he’s better at that skill than any one else currently on the Magic. I think that would work for a second unit that struggles mightily to create it’s own shots. I thought J. Will was at his best the first half of the season when he was attacking defenses. Watson doesn’t possess J. Will’s passing ability but much like when Jameer, Barnes, Vince, etc. attacked the basket, even if it was a missed layup Dwight had great offensive board opportunities with the defender having to rotate which also opened up lobs.
The Magic seemed at their best when they executed an array of offensive attacks, constantly showing different looks. I know you don’t like Watson but he’s young, explosive and fearless. I think that style of player would work well in the Magic’s second unit with Dwight on the floor. We had one of the best passing PG’s as our back up last season but it’s still up to the players to get open. J.J. can get open at will but MP & RA aren’t really guys that can do that and they’re best at spot up shooting off the second and third passes anyway. I think Watson & J.J. are both capable of initiating the first pass pretty consistently.
"It can be done, you can just crush somebody"
J-Will isn't "one of the best passing PGs" any more.
He was a solid passer for a backup in the first half of the season, but by the end of the season, he was hopeless. Not because he wasn’t driving through the lane (he rarely did that in the first half, and I don’t think that decreased as the season wore on), but because he was worn out by the rigors of an NBA season. He didn’t get the assists because he wasn’t making the passes.
(Remember J-Will’s history: he was always a guy with great court vision but unreliable passing technique. Late in the season, when that technique went further out with age and fatigue, he couldn’t do anything.)
Here’s the deal, though: if J-Will wasn’t a good enough distributor to create shots for the second unit, why would the Magic be interested in getting a worse one? Wouldn’t they be better off getting a better one — a guy like Ridnour, for example? If a guy like Watson, a guy with roughly the same passing skills as JJ,could play the point… why wouldn’t the Magic just get JJ to play the point? The fact that this was never even considered suggests that the Magic know a point guard with JJ’s skill level isn’t enough.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
I'm really surprised Ridnour hasn't been snapped up yet
I thought he’d be one of the first second tier guys to go.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 5, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
What 2nd tier guys are gone?
All the signings I’ve heard confirmed are 3rd and below. (Warrick, Blake, Darko, etc)
Okay, okay, J. Johnson is second tier and is gone. You’ve got a point there.
LR is arguably the best available PG in the FA class. He can wait it out. Money will still be there. Too much cash in the market relative to players available. Somebody will pay him.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
by magicfaninTN on Jul 5, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he means Blake.
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Why? He wrote "Ridnour."
And the comment to which he is responding includes a mention of Ridnour, not Blake. fwiw.
_____________________________
"...your eyes lie to you sometimes..." ~SVG on the place and value of advanced metrics/stats
Ah...
…I assumed that when he was saying Ridnour wasn’t “one of the first second tier guys”, he meant that Blake WAS one of the first second-tier guys.
Of course, I was thinking “second—tier” as meaning “borderline starting PGs”…
never mind…
I call him LeBron Jim for short.
Gay
Gooden, Salmons, Amir Johnson, Frye.
If you’d told be a month ago Amir Johnson would beat Luke Ridnour to a $35m contract, I’d have thought you were smoking crack.
Maybe he is just waiting it out, but still.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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