Guest Post: John Schuhmann on Vince Carter's Recent Postseason History
by Evan Dunlap on Apr 19, 2010 12:01 PM EDT
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As I mentioned in this roundup of sorts the other day, Orlando Magic guard Vince Carter has a lot at stake in this postseason, his first ever with a contending team. Fairly or unfairly, he has a reputation for wilting under pressure in big games; ESPN.com's Bill Simmons loves to pile on Carter, and did so most recently in this column.
Carter's played great since February, but his Magic playoff debut could scarcely have gone worse: he shot just 4-of-19 from the field, fouled out, and drew some criticism from coach Stan Van Gundy after Orlando's 98-89 win over the Charlotte Bobcats. "I would still like to see him attacking more. I didn't think he was really in a mindset to attack today," he said of Carter.
I'm not as familiar with Carter's days as a New Jersey Net as John Schuhmann is, so I sought his opinion on Carter's playoff performances there. The New Jersey-based Schuhmann is a regular contributor to NBA.com and covered the Nets' playoff series from press row in 2006 and 2007. Here's what he generously contributed between posts about this year's Boston Celtics / Miami Heat series.
I would say that Carter's postseason performances with the Nets were a mixed bag. It wasn't nearly as bad as Simmons makes it out to be, nor was he Mr. Clutch. He had some good games and he had some bad games.
Basically, he played well against the weaker teams (Indiana in '06, Toronto in '07), and not so well against the better teams (Miami in '05 and '06, Cleveland in '07). Obviously, he didn't have as much help as he has in Orlando, so those better teams were able to focus their defense on him.
The rest of Schuhmann's response follows the jump.
In 2005, he was huge down the stretch of the season to just get the Nets to the playoffs. He was asked to carry the load in the Miami series, because [Richard] Jefferson was banged up and that team had absolutely no depth (their sixth man was Travis Best, who never played in the league again). He took a ton of shots in that series and missed most of them, with Miami loading up on him and keeping him out of the paint. As far as clutchness is concerned, he hit a shot at the buzzer to send Game 3 into a second OT, but it hit the rim and bounced high in the air before it dropped it. He didn't exactly drain it.
I thought he played pretty well in the two series in '06 (six-game win over Indiana, five-game loss to Miami).
[Jason] Kidd was a monster in the '07 postseason (averaged a triple-double over all 12 games) and the Nets gave Cleveland a pretty good series. VC caught some flack for kicking it out to [Bostjan] Nachbar for a game-winner at the end of one of the games in Toronto, but it was the right play if I recall correctly. Of course, the Nets went to Jefferson instead on the final play of Game 6 against Toronto, and he delivered.
VC disappeared in Game 6 against Cleveland in NJ: 11 points, 4-11 shooting, 5 turnovers. It ended up being a 16-point win for the Cavs, but it was a one-point game early in the fourth. In Game 4, he fumbled the ball out of bounds on the final play with the Nets down two. So his last postseason definitely did not end well.
A million thanks to John for taking the time to write this up for us. You can check out his NBA.com archive here and follow him on Twitter here.
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I think the reason Carter infuriates so many people (Including Simmons) is that he’s always milking injuries and you can never tell if he’s giving his full effort. He’s also never been a great defender. Old habits die hard, so the majority of people (see: Non-Magic fans) expect Vince Carter to fold in the playoffs for the Magic.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Nets fans love him, I don't know why Simmons thinks they don't.
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by ben_gleicher on Apr 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
this is completely true
raptors fans are mixed on him its true, and most hate him, but if you were to bash vince on a nets site, almost everyone would be at your throat. he was beloved in new jersey
by nickswarriors16 on Apr 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
By everyone - the fans, the coaches, the front office, the media. Adored.
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by ben_gleicher on Apr 19, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Bill Simmons has his own bias.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Vince seems to be no different
than Pierce when milking those injuries. Pierce was in a freaking wheelchair! But I guess Pierce gets to the line so maybe thats why he doesn’t get the same criticism.
"It's all part of the plan." Jeff Moorad and The Joker in the Dark Knight.
"Just because you went to the Finals last year, you can’t go out on the floor and expect teams to lay down. We got no heart. You can only make so many excuses. Everybody has to come and play hard, not just one or two guys."-Matt Barnes
This is the first season since 2004 where Vince has "milked" injuries
There hasn’t been criticism for a while. I guess people just wait for bad luck to happen and jump all over it.
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by ben_gleicher on Apr 19, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not worried... yet.
Obviously, we cannot go deep into the playoffs IF Vince plays like he did lastnight. But like I’ve said before, “IF” = 0. Being the optimist that I am, I agree with SVG in that a lot of the shots Vince missed lastnight will normally go in. Just one of those nights. And bouncing back from a game like that is infinitely easier with the knowledge that your team didn’t lose because of it [which was not the case with Carter’s prior Playoff series]. I’d like to point out that he did in fact attack the basket on occasion lastnight, but those seem to be disregarded as being relatively few if the shots from the outside don’t fall. Still would like to see him drive a little more, but overall it wasn’t that far from what should be expected from him.
Preemption
“what should be expected from him” was not intended as a negative remark, before anyone assumes :)
Geez
It’s people piling on him that made him go outside of what he has been doing so great since February, play within the offense. Carter needs to just attack and take the wide open jumpers. The Bobcats are a tough defensive team and when your shots are off then it is going to be a long night. I just don’t want to see Carter feel like he has to shoot himself out of it next time, just play the game and don’t force it.
At least it wasn't written by a Toronto writer.
Overall, I think Schuhmann’s analysis is fair. We’re not going to rely on Carter carrying us like he had to carry the Nets and Raptors. Hopefully, this was nothing more than Game 1 jitters for Vince. I expect to see a better game from him in Game 2.
Vince had one bad series with New Jersey. One.
It was 2007 conference semi-finals vs. Cleveland. Krstic was done for the year, MIKKI MOORE was doing his best to fill the void, and Jason Collins was their center. Needless to say, the Nets were offensively challenged, going up against the best defensive/defensive rebounding team in the NBA. They came in with the mindset to lock down Vince, doubling at every opportunity, swarming him, getting the ball out of his hands. It worked. He shot horribly for the series, although he still averaged 7.5 boards and 6.7 assists.
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Simmons has lost it...
He compared giving Durant, Westbrook, Harden, etc. playoff minutes to some contestant on “American idol.” WTF?!? Seriously, WTF?!?
"One thing about knowing that you're dying is that it keeps reminding you you're alive so it's no time to pass up a party."
- Warren Zevon
by Wally Balls 407 on Apr 19, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
Panicking about Carter's game yesterday, is like panicking that D12 will be poor offensively all playoffs.
The Magic won, and 2 of the other stars were able to pick up the load. That’s the great thing, we can have 2 starters have an off-night and the others can save the game. Even the bench can come out and win a game for the Magic.
I did feel that Carter was a little too trigger happy yesterday (long jumpshots with lots of time left in the shot-clock) but I think it was in part because he wanted to deliver for the team, and maybe put too much pressure on himself. He will bounce back from it next game.
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
by North of the South on Apr 19, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
I couldn't agree more
In reality, for Vince, it was “just one of those games”. I seriously doubt this will occur again- at least in this series. He might take a game or two to adjust in the next rounds of the playoffs.
Magic fan since 99-00
Not panicking
Just wish D12 didn’t make the same mistakes over and over again, but you can’t have everything.
Dwight is going have to make his move to the basket much quicker, because they are doubling on the catch.
FEED THE BEAST!!!
Twitter Account
The only prayer for the rest of the league is he continues to live up the their impression of him
Because if he gets it back together. Their will be a parade in Orlando.
"Morning yall up early w/ the babies watchn Dora. Seems Lamar can't keep my name out his mouth maby I need 2 put my sons shitty diaper n it"~Matt Barnes
Hoping Vince is able to contribute
and not be “the guy”. Jameer and Lewis are the keys to winning.
But Carters’ shot chart looks like he was allergic to the key. 2 shots in the paint?!
"It's all part of the plan." Jeff Moorad and The Joker in the Dark Knight.
"Just because you went to the Finals last year, you can’t go out on the floor and expect teams to lay down. We got no heart. You can only make so many excuses. Everybody has to come and play hard, not just one or two guys."-Matt Barnes
In all fairness, Charlotte defended him a lot better than they did Jameer.
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by ben_gleicher on Apr 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with the statement...
Fairly or unfairly, he has a reputation for wilting under pressure in big games
I think that Bill Simmons is the only one who thinks that. One man’s opinion doesn’t create a reputation. Besides the Cavs series, when they focused soley on taking Vince out of the game, when has anyone accused him of wilting in big games? Other than his first playoff series against the Knicks in 2000 and that one, what can you back that statement up with?
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There are a lot of ignorant people out there.
Case in point: All the people still going “The Magic miss Hedo”.
I hate Varejao.
lol that guy is a crackpot.
I agree that perhaps it may seem like we need to rely on Vince to be our clutch person, but he forget one very important part of our team, our bench. JJ has proven more than once that he can be a clutch shooter. And what was with all his blathering about chemistry. He clearly doesn’t follow the Magic very closely if he doesn’t know whether they have chemistry or not. I honestly don’t see a closer team in the NBA. What other team has a dunk-in where one member of the team lifts up another to dunk. RA and JJ are besties (hello! they’re dating sisters). Jameer and Dwight act like brothers. All the white guys hang out and most of the older guys have families and stuff. So, I’m not entirely sure what research this guy has done (although it appears that he has done none) but he is way off base in my opinion.
I'm a girl too.
How many teams can pull of to have one player calling a team mate a "crib midget" and it be considered friendly?
heheheh
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
by North of the South on Apr 19, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Cant wait to see how VC plays thru these playoffs. I think he really had to carry the teams in his postseasons. He didnt play great yesterday, but he had a 3 yr layoff so cut the man a break. Ill take a mixed review of his postseason play, because his averages were amazing, hes already shown great meshing with the team in the 2nd half of reg. season, and the Magic never really ever had a go to guy to begin with! Plus, VC truly is a great shooter too, so he will bounce back.
This Guy is crazy..
He’s saying that Lewis numbers decreased because turk isn’t here anymore.. obviously this guy isn’t watching magic games and just relays on stat numbers.. The magic needs to prove this guy wrong cause he’s freaking annoying.. And what the heck vc had an off-game give him a break it’s his first playoff appearance in two years..
we don't light the stars, we simply fade with them..
Really, were judging him on his post season history?
He’s only played one game here and when he played with the raptors and the nets he was surrounded by mediocre teams. Lets judge him after we win the championship
VC
He will bounce back, but he needs to drive the basketball.
He definitely missed some shots, he normally makes. He had some great looks, perfect time to have a bad game. I think VC turns his swag on and has a killer post-season. His looks are just too good.
FEED THE BEAST!!!
Twitter Account
Vince Carter fan here.
Hi Ben, let me first just say it’s awesome to have such a high quality site as this providing almost everything you can find on the internet concerning about the Magic. I’ve been constantly on this site, looking for information, and I always find just what I’m looking for. I finally made an account so I can post my thanks! An awesome site, just to say the least.
I’m more of a forums type of guy(always on magicrealgm) and I am also a moderator for vincecarteronline.net (yes a fansite dedicated to Vince Carter. VC fanboys dream home. haha. It’s been around for about 8 years, and a great site that I’m proud to help with.)
Anyways, I’ve followed Vince Carter his entire career, dating back to his days in UNC, and he’s not only been my favorite player, but my hero.
Believe me, if you could measure the criticism Vince has had in his entire year to food, then there would be no such thing as world hunger.
Nets fan love VC because he ressurrected his career back in NJ and matured during his time with the Nets, but the criticism never went away. As we all know, Vince has frustrated us many times this season, but overall I think most of us fans(VC and Magic alike) agree that Vince has been good for this team, and that he could be the piece that can get us over the hump and help lead Dwight and the Magic to a title.
Obviously in yesterdays game Vince had a horrible game, he drove to the rim early, but didn’t get many calls and took some bad shots. I guarantee you Vince does not go 4-19 each game.
It’s fine what John is doing talking about his past postseason experiences, but he’s with an ENTIRELY different team now, and one game will not defy how he will do in the playoffs.
I’m used to all the hate that VC gets, but I truly believe that once the playoffs are over, he will finally silence the critics.
"Vince is ready for the playoffs."-Otis Smith
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-bianchi-magic-vince-carter-0418-20100417,0,3743310.column?page=2
by R.M. on Apr 19, 2010 10:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I have been watching Vince for pretty much all his career, since 2003 I think...
But as I live in Romania the only games I could watch were the ones on TV that were broadcasted at 6AM (I watched some in 2001 vs. the Sixers) but I was a kid then. Then the NBA went away from the television and I could only get games on DC++ and later on, from the torrents or catching up streams on the internet. Impossible on dial up by the way.
The problem with him is that he really is soft… nobody can argue on that. Besides the occasional dunk he just shies away from contact and if he would actually penetrate it’s almost certain he would get injured. He’s just not strong enough anymore to take on the playoff physical intensity so he has to rely on his jumper.
I was listening to Simmons on his podcast with McHale talking about how he thought Vince was going to be the reason Orlando fails
The thing that trip me out was he said “In crunch time, where else are they gonna go to? And he wont show up”
And I was like
“Uhm hello?!!! Lewis? Barnes? Nelson? Even Dwight?!!” This team is deep man, I think it showed that in the first game. Even if VC struggles theres other to pick up the slack.
Im more worried about us not being able to stop the Cavs with their own matchups than if Vince shows up or not
"To my Hustlers, heres some motivation: He who has begun is half done, why you waiting?"-NaS
Certified Kristin Kreuk obsessive.
Well Bill Simmons is a very busy man Ben.
If he’s not sitting their losing his mind over Rasheed chucking up 3 point bricks for the Celts or writing love letters for the Zombie Sonics, he’s gotta catch up on his marathon of MTV Real World Road Rules Challenge and American Idol.
Little things like seeing him being proven wrong, just arent on his schedule lol
"To my Hustlers, heres some motivation: He who has begun is half done, why you waiting?"-NaS
Certified Kristin Kreuk obsessive.
by Wasabi Steak on Apr 20, 2010 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I love Bill Simmons as a writer.
His Book of Basketball is really entertaining and a good read. But yeah, I don’t get this. I mean, he posts the “clutch” stats from this year, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it looked like Vince has a significantly higher PP48 than Hedo did last year. He then asks “Who believes this?” Well, I dunno, anyone who can see the damn stat, Bill. Unless he just made that up and used the graphic as some kind of weird experiment to see if anyone actually would believe it. I don’t know.
I’ve never seen someone use a statistic that supports the opposing view to somehow prove your own point. Mind-boooooggling.
I hate Varejao.
Yeah, I mean, Hedo was 35% in the "clutch" last year. Vince is at 40% this year.
Vince also is getting to the line more in the clutch. Hedo was much better in 2008. Besides the game-winner in Philly and the shot that put us up one before LeBron’s “legendary” shot in game 2, I don’t recall Hedo being our Mr. Clutch last year in the post-season. Rashard was. And if they think that Jameer and Vince can’t create shots like Hedo, I mean… I don’t know what to say.
Also, Jameer and Rashard’s clutch numbers from last year were insane. Both shooting over 50%?
I hate Varejao.
Well, Jameer was over 50% all season last year.
But you’ll note how close to the season averages ALL of those numbers are. The Magic don’t change their offensive approach late in games nearly as much as some teams… we did see Vince running the offense a bit early this year, but these days, they trust the offense that got them there.
Bass is a kind of fish.
100%
Why was Rashard on the press conferences with Dwight Howard last year? Second most important person on the team. Also I like Simmons, but in basketball he tends to put too much emotion into it. Take emotion out and you see that the Cavs roster really sucks. Seriously. They have a bunch of guys who have never been to the playoffs. And when they get there, they shrink. Mo Williams is Jameer Nelson’s caddy. What has Antwan Jamison done is his career? Antwaan Jamison was a third banana in Washington and they couldn’t get past Cleveland. Now he is the “missing” piece? I am so glad Danny Ferry thought the Amar’e Stoudemire was a bad “fit”. Imagine LeBron and Amar’e running the pick and roll? Yikes. With Rashard Lewis we knew he could play second fiddle on a great team. He and Ray Lewis won 60 games in Seattle. By themselves. The proof was in the pudding. Take emotion out of it and just look at the rosters.
nah jamison can ball.
and lebron is god on legs. he gets at least 4-5 freebie free throws a game vs us every time. that is like god starting the game 0 to -5 at tip off.
by thomaswhigham on Apr 22, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
shard was the beast vs cleveland, he put daggers in them from the corner, and did it again this year
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