2010 NBA All-Star Game Open Thread
Although Dwight Howard will start for the third consecutive year, and head coach Stan Van Gundy and his staff will make their first appearance on the sidelines since joining the Orlando Magic in 2007, this year's NBA All-Star Game won't have as much interest for Magic fans as last year's contest did. Rashard Lewis and Jameer Nelson joined Howard in Phoenix, giving the Magic three players in the event for the first time in history. Still, there's a chance to watch some of the greatest players in the world ply their trade in a game without any defense whatsoever. It should be fun. Comment away in this thread throughout the night.
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| February 14th, 2010 | ||
| Cowboys Stadium | ||
| 8:00 PM | ||
| TNT | ||
| Starters | ||
| Carmelo Anthony | G | Joe Johnson |
| Steve Nash | Dwyane Wade | |
| Tim Duncan | F | Kevin Garnett |
| Dirk Nowitzki | LeBron James | |
| Amar'e Stoudemire | C | Dwight Howard |
| Reserves | ||
| Chauncey Billups | G | Rajon Rondo |
| Jason Kidd | Derrick Rose | |
| Deron Williams | ||
| Kevin Durant | F | Chris Bosh |
| Pau Gasol | Paul Pierce | |
| Zach Randolph | Gerald Wallace | |
| Chris Kaman | C | Al Horford |
| David Lee | ||
| Injured/Excused - Will Not Play | ||
| Kobe Bryant | Allen Iverson | |
| Chris Paul | ||
| Brandon Roy | ||
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Comments
C'mon East.
Give me a 5% chance at winning those Mavs tickets!
I hate Varejao.
Haha, Reading Bullets Forever
on the Caron Deal is funny.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Love Usher,
See NFL- If you had that for the Superbowl Halftime, Our life would be 10X beter.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Usher was looking like he was about ready to pass out.
How old is he again?
I hate Varejao.
The east had a much more better appearance.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Nash looked hilarious coming out
http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog
by CubFanRaysaddict on Feb 14, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
sorry to say this to you (you probably know it) but that community is weak in general, though I probably am spoiled by OPP, DRB and TomahawkNation. His comment where you responded ‘Really, Grammar’ is priceless.
http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog
by CubFanRaysaddict on Feb 14, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
I know, I warned him- had to.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Niko gave me my first (and only) SBN warning
what does he expect he tells people he manages a gyro restaurant, after that Sandy Kazmir incident. Not picking on Niko just busting his chops here, he’s always been nicer to me than I probably deserve.
http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog
by CubFanRaysaddict on Feb 14, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Im going to leave my opinions
out of that, incident.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Oh that's fine
I wasn’t trying to get that out of you, just sharing my badge of honor lol.
http://citrusjuicing.com/ An SRQ focused-Tampa Bay area sports blog
by CubFanRaysaddict on Feb 14, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
To tell the truth though,
I am thinking of redoing the User guide this month, a short-sweetened version of it.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
And know i banned him.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Just like in the regular season, no one will let Dwight get to the rim without a foul.
THIS IS AN EXHIBITION GAME, PEOPLE!!! QUIT FOULING HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
Darn... I missed the Howard three pointer
I got tired of watching all the pre-game festivities so I shut the TV off. I thought they would never end.
D12 leads the East with 11 points after one quarter.
"Everyone is passionate about the Magic and that's great, but the key is keeping things in perspective and staying realistic." - erivera7
by Mike from Illinois on Feb 14, 2010 9:15 PM EST reply actions
He's been there the whole quarter though,
so has Pierce and Wade- I think.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Also,
In case you Missed it, It was a swish
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
LOL'N
Shakira.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
I enjoyed it thoroughly
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 14, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
You couldn't be more off-based with that comment.
The East reserves were far from trash. Each of them were deserving All-Stars (Rose was questionable, IMO).
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Rose has 19 and 5.7 assists even after that slow start with the ankle injury.
I think he deserved his spot. Smith deserved the spot over Horford though.
I hate Varejao.
lol
For sure.
But Exhibition basketball is trash.
IMHO.
So the irrational side of that comment could be attributed to that.
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
Last night's game wasn't trash. Far from it.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I wish Dwight would take something seriously
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
none of them were taking it seriously
they were all laughing and joking around.
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 14, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
So I saw.... but I'm with Adonal in thinking he should start acting more professional at the arena
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 14, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
it's the all star game
nothing serious about it
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 14, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
they're really nice, but I didn't mind the two tone ones that much
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 14, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
the two tone was a horrible idea
b/c you couldn’t tell them apart from certain angles.
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Feb 14, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Pierce Fail.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Really-
Dwight, James, Wade, Smith- Best Slam Dunk Combo ever.
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
Not even close...
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 14, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
In Modern Day
Official head of the Eric Berry bandwagon.
Buc'em- Your source for everything buccaneer.
2000 with Vince, T-Mac, Steve Francis and Stack
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 14, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
People forget how good T-Mac and Francis were in that contest.
They would’ve won in most years. Just not in Vince’s year.
I hate Varejao.
Yep, and all four were All-Stars
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 15, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Shaq or LeBron.
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 15, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Not to mention he was the unquestioned centerpiece on his team.
Throughout the entire decade. Pretty impressive.
I hate Varejao.
Duncan 99-09, Shaq 00-09
The real "Masters of Panic" are commenting on this blog.
by ben_gleicher on Feb 15, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see how you could include Lebron in the conversation.
I would think that considering the other candidates (except Nash) all had multiple champioships and Bron has only been to one Finals and was swept, he can’t be in the discussion.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
You can't
Its just Nike has pushed the King agenda down all of our throats you would think he accomplished what Tim Duncan did in the decade
BTW I have to say Timmy D is the best PF of all time.
So best player of Decade is his by a mile…
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
You are right.
I don’t know how I would ever come up with that conclusion
Guess that’s why I don’t have a blog like this.
LOL
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
To be clear though
David Robinson was the PF from 97-03 while Duncan was the Center?
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
I think Robinson was the center, Duncan was the PF
Towards the end, though, Robinson was definitely wearing down – 02-03, he only played 64 games, and only averaged 26 minutes. Duncan played 81 games and averaged 39 minutes. Kevin Willis and Mengke Bateer were the other centers, but they combined for only 886 minutes total, so Duncan was playing a good amount of center when Robinson was off the floor.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
How I personally feel
It does not matter, I am not one to care who is playing the what number at any given time. I mean I understand Barkley was a 4 and Malone was a 4, But Really in both their primes they were 1’s as in number 1 option.
My Boss is an Spurs fan, Its terrible but everywhere I go it lists Duncan as at least a PF.
Its annoying… So I was totally misinformed when I stated he was a PF.
It said it in Wikipiedia so I believed it.
Trust fail.
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
The next time it comes up, ask your Boss who San Antonio’s starting center is (assuming you have a good enough relationship to pull it off). It’s either 6’11" Duncan or 6’9" McDyess, because they’re the two bigs that start the game. Timmy has a bit of a “stretch 5” role, but he plays at center.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
LOL Thats the thing
He is one of those Bosses, Who if he said, Man Bird watching is the Best, he would look at you and your job would depend on you agreeing with him.
and I would say he played C for most of this decade, 03-present to be accurate?
Eh, Point is I love timmy and not the spurs.
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
Because basketball is a team game, and LeBron's teams have been awful.
Personally, I wouldn’t say LeBron because he wasn’t even in the league for large parts of the decade. (He’s got anh inside line on the best player of this coming decade, though.)
But this here is a silly argument — “LeBron” hasn’t failed to win a championship. LeBron, Mo Williams, Ilgauskas, Delonte West, Varejao and around fifteen other people in various combinations have collectively failed to win a championship.
And to put the failure on LeBron is ridiculous, given that he’s the only above-average starter on that whole team. That’s 40 minutes of LeBron and 200 combined minutes of mediocrity — you can’t expect one-sixth of the team to somehow outweigh the other five-sixths. It’s amazing the question even comes up — it’s amazing that the Cavaliers are even a contender. Usually, one-star teams are like the Heat: pretty good some years, mediocre other years. They don’t win 66 games, that’s for sure. And at least the Heat usually have a couple additional scorers out there.
I mean, seriously. Name a championship team this decade on which any of the other Cavaliers would have been even the third-best guy.
Then consider last year’s conference finals, a series in which LeBron did everything it was possible for one man to do on a basketball court, and his team and coach let him down.
And then try to drag team performance into individual questions? Hmph.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
I don't see how you can ignore the fact that he hasn't elevated the level of play of the team around him to a championship level.
That is part of what defines a player as the best ever for any span of time, whether it’s 10 years, 25 years, 50 years, or all-time. Most players in any sport fall short of being in said conversation if they can’t win a championship, and that includes team sports. Is Dan Marino at the head of the conversation for best player of his generation? Is Charles Barkley considered the greatest player of his generation, or Patrick Ewing? Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule, but they are very rare. To say that winning a championship is not a very important factor is such a debate is ridiculous IMO.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
A) He HAS done that, and b) that's not entirely on him.
I don’t see how the Cavs are not playing at “a championship level”. Just because they haven’t won the last one or two series doesn’t mean they’re not a championship-caliber team. Playoff series are coin flips — I know it’s fun to act as though they’re the Ultimate Determinant of True Basketball Talent, as t but when you get down to it, they’re just some basketball games. Better teams lose to worse teams all the time in the regular season, and equally good teams tend to split wind and losses evenly, and what does it mean? Exactly.
Playoffs — and this is not just basketball — are one part skill, one part matching up well against the 3-4 equally good teams that are almost always out there, and one part being lucky enough to win the games that happen to occur at the end of the season. By definition, a 60+-win team is “championship caliber”. If they weren’t, how did they win all those games?
Your examples don’t work here. Barkley and Ewing aren’t considered the greatest players of their generation because better players were out there — better by purely individual metrics. Jordan, et al. Dan Marino wasn’t considered the greatest player of his generation because Joe Montana was better. Who right now is better than LeBron?
Maybe you could make an argument for Kobe a couple years back… but if you’re doing that, you’re going to have to imply that Kobe — Kobe Bryant, mind you — does more to “make his teammates better” than LeBron does. Is that really a claim you’re willing to make? Or is it more relevant to point out that Kobe has one of the league’s top post scorers to work with, and he’s playing for one of the greatest coaches in NBA history, whereas LeBron has Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Mike Brown?
And again, I think you’re underestimating how bad the rest of the Cavaliers are. That team literally has nobody, and they never have. Again, which player on the Cavs would’ve been a top-3 guy on a championship team this decade?
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
Two more questions, then I'm done.
1. Imagine the Cavs minus LeBron. We’re talking a rotation of O’Neal, Ilgauskas, Varejao, Hickson, Anthony Parker, Delonte West, Mo Williams and Daniel Gibson. How many games does that team win?
(Feel free to substitute any of the Cavs’ rosters from previous seasons.)
2. Consider the following team. O’Neal, Ilgauskas, Varejao, Hickson, Anthony Parker, Delonte West, Mo Williams, Daniel Gibson… and Michael Jordan circa 1992. Is that team a lock for the NBA title?
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
The only thing Jordan had over Lebron was Scotty Pippen, at least in the first run of championships,
The rest of the roster is comparable if not better than what Jordan had in the 1990-1993 run. It was a bunch of role players that fit into the system and didn’t require a bunch of shots but could hit them when asked. Sound familiar? On the 1993 squad, Horace Grant (the best of the bunch), Bill Cartwright, Stacey King, Scott Williams, BJ Armstrong, Will Perdue, John Paxson, Trent Tucker, Rodney McCray, Corey Williams, Darrell Walker. You put LeBron on that same roster and you think they win a championship?
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
Pippen, Grant and that supporting cast = 35-40 wins or so.
Pippen is around five levels of magnitude better than anything the Cavs have. (And I’m saying this as a guy who thinks Pippen’s massively overrated.) Grant is also very solid. That’s two above-average starters to none — and one of them is a Hall of Famer.
I really think the Cavs minus LeBron would struggle to win more than 15. They have one player who’s capable of averaging more than 12 points a game, and even he isn’t a 20-PPG guy. (He’s also a point guard who can’t run an offense… LeBron has to do that too.)
Even if you give them 20, that’s a 45-win swing. And there’s no way the players you named win less than 20.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
Oh, and of course The Zen Master as his coach instead of Mike Brown.
That’s a huge difference of course.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
Over the course of three years?
No doubt in my mind they win at least one. (Well, some doubt — there’s the whole coin-flip element.)
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
I have my doubts...with that roster. Yet MJ won three in a row with basically that roster (with some tweaks here and there).
What is this whole coin flip thing argument? Nevermind, I don’t care at this point. I’m done arguing at this point. You would think I’d made an attack on your mothers with how hard you are arguing for Lebron.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
even with one championship, I don't think LeBron's career to date trumps Duncan's body of work this decade. He's already spotted him 3 seasons and 3 championships.
Yeah, I said Duncan was my choice.
But he was acting like LeBron was a ridiculous notion, which I don’t think he is. It all depends on what you value — the fact that Duncan’s been at least a top-10 guy in the league for the entire decade swayed me. Conversely, the fact that LeBron didn’t even get into the league until 2003 was a major argument against him. At the same time, LeBron’s peak has been higher than Duncan’s peak, so if that’s what you’re valuing, go ahead.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
It is ridiculous when compared to the resumes of Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant.
He might be in the conversation, but he’s an afterthought IMO.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
If you don't take team success into account...
He’s not that much of an afterthought. He’s already had some of the best all-around seasons of all-time. And even taking team success into consideration, he resurrected a franchise that was dead in the water and brought it to the Finals with hot garbage as his running mates.
Duncan is the player of the decade, but you have to give LeBron some respect for what he’s done, especially at a young age. Don’t let the media hype twist you around.
I hate Varejao.
Were the Magic not in a similar situation when they drafted Dwight Howard?
Their careers (as far as team success) have rivaled each other, yet we don’t consider Dwight to be anywhere near the conversation. I’m not sure what you mean by “Don’t let the media hype twist you around.” The media loves the mad and thinks he walks on water. If anything, I’m going against the majority here.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
That's what I'm saying.
Don’t let the the media hyping him up to bejeezus and back cloud the fact that he is doing things on a basketball court that few people have ever been able to do. And Dwight hasn’t been as consistent or productive to be honest to be compared to LeBron.
Wade’s the only one who I think can compare from this generation of players just because he already led a team to a title with not much more help than what LeBron’s got the past 2 years (he just had a declining Shaq). Problem is he’s been injured, while LeBron hasn’t. Again, consistent, high-level production.
I hate Varejao.
How is that comparable?
That’s the problem with using “team success” as a measuring stick.
Dwight has done what he does with multiple All-Stars on his team, a strong bench, and a great coach. (And by being the best defender and rebounder in the league right now.)
LeBron has done what he does with 2-3 fourth and fifth starters, a lousy bench, a mediocre coach… and by being the most unstoppable scorer of his era, and arguably the greatest passing forward of all time. (I’m only saying “arguably” because it’s not a couple years from now.)
I love Dwight, he’s a great player, but there’s no comparison. You know there’s no comparison.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
I think you are undervaluing the level of talent on the Cavs roster.
Are they as good as what Otis Smith has surrounded Dwight with? No. Is Otis Smith a better GM that Danny Ferry? Hell YES! Is Mike Brown is the same league of coaching as SVG? As Will Smith regularly says, Oh Hell Naw!!! But you cannot take out the team success element out of the equation. It simply doesn’t work that way.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
Yes, it does.
We’re talking about individual talent. We’re not talking about team quality. You still haven’t named a team that’s actually won a championship, and on which any Cavalier other than LeBron would’ve been a top-3 guy.
And as far as team quality goes, do you really think last year’s Lakers were somehow inherently better than the Magic, or the Cavs, or Boston? Because if so, that’s silly. They’re just the team that happened to win the games.
Play that series ten times, juggle the matchups, and every one of those teams would win the title at least once. (Except maybe Boston, and even that’s only on account of Garnett’s injury.) Heck, Denver might even have gotten in there one time. There’s a huge random element in the playoff system.
The fact is, LeBron has taken a team that is just about exactly as good as the ‘09-10 Nets — you can draw the lines directly from one team to the other, if you’d like. Devin Harris = Mo Williams + passing – durability. Brook Lopez > Old Shaq/Ilgauskas by a large margin. Varejao > whoever the Nets are playing at the 4 by about the same margin. Douglas-Roberts and Lee are… equal to Parker and Delonte West? A little better, even?
Anyway, LeBron’s taken that team and he’s pretty much single-handedly turned them into a title-caliber team. He hasn’t turned them into a lock for the title… that would require a second star at the very least. He has a couple of fourth starters and some bench players. But as far as I’m concerned, who even cares? We’re talking about a 50-win swing here.
And yeah, the Spurs in their prime were probably a notch or two above the Cavaliers now. Because their second-best player was way better, their third-best player (whether it was Robinson or Ginobili) was better, their fourth-best player was better… and so on and so on. It’s unfair to LeBron to penalize him because he’s managed to land on a badly-built team. Do you expect him to somehow will the rest of the players into becoming good at basketball? He’s a basketball player, not a wizards. A lot of the stuff that happens on that court has nothing to do with him, and to blame him for it is ridiculous.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
Dwight isn't on the level of LeBron.
You (or anyone else) would be a fool if you believed that, to be frank.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I never said he was. I was just comparing the franchises at the time they were drafted to point out that...
that bringing a franchise out of the pit into the elite shouldn’t really be the measuring stick by which LeBron is judged. Obviously LeBron is a more dynamic player than Dwight, but they were both equally important to the success of their franchises. That was my point. Don’t come spouting off about how LeBron is the best of the decade because of what he did with the Cavs when in the same timeframe, another player did the same thing with their franchise and isn’t in the discussion. I know LeBron is a better individual player…
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
Obviously, that spouting comment wasn't meant for Eddy.
Reply fail.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
LeBron did what he did despite his management.
Dwight has done what he’s done with the help of his management. Your dislike for LeBron is clouding your judgement, sir.
I hate Varejao.
Its not a dislike of LeBron. I've never said I didn't like him.
I just don’t think he belongs in this particular conversation. He obviously is going to be at the head of the conversation for the current decade, just not the last. He doesn’t have the resume to be included with the likes of Kobe or TD. That’s been the basis for my argument the entire time!
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
He has large parts of that resume.
Has Duncan ever won a scoring title? Is Kobe gifted as a primary ball-handler? Has either one of them ever been on a championship-caliber team that didn’t contain another obvious All-Star?
I mean, they all have strengths and weaknesses as candidates. Duncan is a notch below several other candidates as a scorer. Kobe’s teams have floundered when he’s been called on to carry them without a dominant big man. LeBron only played two-thirds of the decade.
To say “LeBron’s not a legitimate candidate because here are the ways these people are better candidates” is missing the point. You could do that about anyone. (This decade. Last decade, you’re pretty much stuck with the three seasons Jordan didn’t play, and that’s about it.)
And honestly, if you’re looking for a deal-breaker, “LeBron’s teammates are bad at basketball” isn’t exactly the strongest argument you could tie yourself to.
I’d say anyone who was the best by SOME reasonable set of criteria is by definition a reasonable candidate. Likewise, anyone who was the best player in the league for a substantial portion of the decade is in the discussion for best player of the decade. That seems obvious to me — just as it seems obvious to me that LeBron has been the league’s best player for at least the last couple years. He’s not even the candidate I’d vote for. But he’s a real candidate.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
It's still a peak/consistency thing.
Duncan and Kobe have had good careers, but neither one is ever going to be one of the top 5 players of all time. They’re borderline top-10 at best. Whereas LeBron… isn’t there yet, but the career he’s putting together could lead him in that direction. (Especially if he ever plays on a team with anyone good whatsoever.)
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
LeBron, when it's all said and done, has a chance to be the best ever.
Not saying he will be, just saying there’s a chance. I’m more than aware that James has to start winning titles before we’re talking about GOAT.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
This isn't a measure of who is going to be the best of all-time amongst the players we are discussing.
This started out as a conversation about who was the best over the course of 10 years, 2000-2009. That’s it! Look at the resumes of the three players in question and it’s not even close. I never argued against LeBron’s potential or that he was a great player. My argument has always been around what he did in the timeframe that we are measuring these players by. Why is this so hard to understand?
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
Okay -- who had the best season this decade?
I’d say the best two or three seasons (in terms of individual performance, which is ultimately all that matters) were LeBron’s.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
Who cares who had the best statistical single season during a 10 year span?
That isn’t the measure of a great player over the course of a long period of time. I don’t understand how this adds to your argument.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
The best season, maybe not.
But the best season, and the second-best season, and the third-best season? That suggests to me that this guy performed at a higher level than any other player, and it wasn’t a fluke either.
It’s certainly a better argument than “Tim Duncan is better than LeBron because Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili are better than Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas”.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
The best player of the decade is Duncan. End of story.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Better player?
Timmy D or Shaq? I Shaq is a bigger physical force.
but, Timmy D has been incredible.
TD Career 25.1 PER – 4 Rings
Shaq Career 26.5 PER-4 Rings
FEED THE BEAST!!!
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Thing with Timmy is that he's going to last longer than Shaq since he doesn't rely on physical strength
I mean, Shaq was still tremendous at 33 (2005/06 season, when they won the championship), but Timmy’s that age now and he’s better, ever so slightly. Lower usage, higher efficiency, better defense.
I do believe we’ll remember Shaq as a better player at his peak than Duncan was at his, but Duncan’s overall body of work will prove to be more impressive.
The question isn't is if LeBron will win a championship. The question is when.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
If he doesn't win one this year and then decides to leave for a Knicks or Nets franchise, it may never happen IMO.
That “when/of” argument still doesn’t justify his inclusion in the conversation of best of the decade IMO.
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
The Knicks and Nets are both better supporting casts than his current one.
Well… maybe not the Nets. (And of course the Knicks aren’t keeping any of their players.) But it’s close.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
I wasn't even talking about that.
I was just making a general statement about LeBron.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
But that has to be taken into consideration if you are going to make such a statement, no?
NBA Championship or bust in '09-10!!!! GO MAGIC!!!!
Wherever LeBron goes this off-season, he's going to win a title on that team.
I normally don’t make statements in absolutes but it will happen with James.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Agreed
Outside of a catastrophic injury Lebron will win one.
Once he is surrounded with a good team, he will starting winning rings.
Example-Kobe plays with 2 players over 7 feet with a PER over 20 and 6’10 guy with 16.1 PER, and Ron Artest who plays great D.
FEED THE BEAST!!!
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Put LeBron on that team and it's lights out.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I work with Spurs fans
Who have convinced me Duncan is a PF. I contend he was a Center. And they don’t want him considered a Center because he is just another great among Greats.
Well I came to accept it. After months of resisting it.
I truly believed him to be a PF.
This is refreshing to see someone with credibility contend he is NOT a PF.
Because I will be send them to this thread to read it and weep.
vindication of a Monday morning of an issue that has burned for about 7 months now is SWEET!
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
Thanks Ben
If anything we all agree Timmy is one of the Best ever.
"Who wants to buy some DVD's?"~Big Z
Yeah, that's my reasoning for favoring Duncan.
If you consider him a center, he’s the best center of the decade. Shaq was right up there for the first half of the decade, but he’s declined. Duncan’s still going for 20, 10 and 2. And while Duncan was never quite the offensive force Shaq in his prime was, he was always the stronger defender. I’d put Shaq as a whole fifth of all time, behind Wilt, Russell, Kareem and Olajuwon… this might not be fair to some of the earlier centers out there, but there it is. Duncan would be in that range as well.
But if he’s a power forward, he very well may be the greatest one ever. Now, granted, that’s partially due to a lack of competition… you don’t have a Kareem out there at PF, let alone a Wilt or a Russell. You have… Karl Malone? Charles Barkley? Bob Pettit? Garnett? All great players, but not quite equal to the top centers. Duncan’s right up there with any of them, and quite possibly ahead.
And really, he’s the only one from this decade who you could say that about. Kobe’s not close to Jordan. Neither Nash or Kidd is the equal of Magic, Stockton or Oscar. LeBron has a good shot at surpassing Bird, but he hasn’t done it yet. (And really, he’s the only one you could even say that about… maybe Chris Paul, if everything breaks right for him, but even that’s a bit of a stretch.)
So Duncan gets my vote as well.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
I really am into the puke territory when I think of Duncan
His body and everything he does gives me the “PUKE OUT” sensation. He’s just ugly to look at when playing basketball, no matter what the angle of view is.
I don't know what you're talking about.
His game isn’t like Gerald Wallace where it’s really unorthodox and haphazard. It’s just precise.
I hate Varejao.
And he wins.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
And this isn't a "favorite player of the decade" question anyway.
If that’s the question, Nash wins hands down. (Well, if we’re bringing team bias into it, I might feel obligated to vote for Howard… naaahhhh. I have every excuse to vote for Steve Nash, and I’m going to take it.)
I mean, I can’t say I get excited about Duncan’s game exactly, certainly not in the way I get excited about Nash’s game. But I certainly enjoy watching him.
Then again, the Stockton/Malone Jazz are one of my favorite teams of all time. I still contend they were robbed in ’98.
(Actually, I contend they were robbed in ’97 too, it was just more blatant in ’98.)
So what do I know about aesthetics?
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
They were robbed when they were held to less than 60 points in a Finals game?
Jordan might’ve pushed off Russell on the final shot, but c’mon, those Bulls teams were better, and Jordan was better. Dude went off while on the verge of collapsing.
I hate Varejao.
Aside from that game...
…the Jazz should’ve won every one of the other five. I’m not talking about that one shot — I’m talking about three 5-point losses that should’ve been 10-point wins. The officiating was laughably biased from Game 1 through the duration.
Have you seen any of those games recently? Watch them again… it’s blatant. The stuff Rodman got away with alone… and that’s not even taking Pippen into account, or the multiple dubious 24-second calls… even the 24-second clock calls were tilted toward the Bulls. It was ridiculous.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
Oh yes, I remember that Finals series.
It was the first time I felt that the NBA was “rigged”. Ever since then it’s become obvious to me that the NBA favors the big teams… but that can be said of almost every professional sports league.
The shot-clock violation calls, yes, those were bad. Even in that 6th game there was at least 1 denied three-pointer because clock had expired, which wasn’t the case, that costed the Jazz the game and the series.
Bulls deserved their championship in 97, but they had lots of “help” in 98. It was like they had to have Jordan retire as a champion. Then of course Jordan ruined their plan by coming out of retirement a second time a joining the Wizards. lulz.
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
by North of the South on Feb 16, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yes he does, playing ugly basketball
I just can’t stand that. It makes you realize ugly basketball = winning basketball and I can’t stand that.

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