Looking for a wing sharpshooter
by The Dark on Feb 12, 2010 8:31 AM EST
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Since speculative trades are a significant hobby around here, and there's criticism about the offensive prowess of our small forwards, I decided to look briefly at who's a better long-range shooter than our current pair, and what it would take in purely contract-balancing terms to get each of those players. I don't have enough of an ear to the ground to know what various teams are looking for. Some guys are just flat out untradeable, though, so I won't even bother with star players on rival teams. They'll just get a "Next."
Mickael Pietrus, surprisingly enough, is the 13th-best three-point shooting small forward by shooting percentage. The better SFs are:
1. Jared Dudley, Phoenix. Dudley makes almost nothing by NBA standards. Money wise, we could either trade Ryan Anderson straight up or Anthony Johnson for Dudley and bench-warmer Taylor Griffin. The first wouldn't make sense for Orlando, the second wouldn't make sense for Phoenix.
2. Paul Pierce, Boston. Next.
3. Ryan Gomes, Minnesota. A decent player signed to a team that isn't going anywhere. Again looking money wise, Brandon Bass for Gomes would work. Given that they have Love, I don't know if it would be considered.
4. Ron Artest, Los Angeles. Next.
5. Peja Stojakovic, New Orleans. Good grief, he's overpaid. It would take something along the lines of Brandon Bass and Anthony Johnson and Mickael Pietrus to balance salaries.
6. Omri Casspi, Sacramento. I don't think the Kings are interested in trading him, but they have cap space that would allow a Casspi for Johnson trade to work.
7. Hedo Turkoglu, Toronto. Irony, thy name is Turk. Bass + Pietrus would fit salary-wise, but I can't see this happening. I'd laugh my head off while cussing out Otis if we took on his contract.
8. Carmelo Anthony, Denver. Next.
9. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City. Next.
10. Donte Greene, Sacramento. Seriously, Sacramento has two of the top ten long-range sharpshooting SFs. Greene's even less expensive than Casspi, and can also be had for Johnson's expiring contract.
11. Martell Webster, Portland. Brandon Bass' contract is roughly equivalent to Webster's, and he's more than just a sniper.
12. LeBron James, Cleveland. Um. Next, I guess, but we're out of guys that shoot from long range better than Pietrus.
Barnes is "only" 24th in the league at SF for three-point shooting. I won't go into trades for each of the players between Peaches and Matt Barnes, but they are:
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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Since 3pt % isn't the only measure of usefulness.
You’d need to add in at least the defensive numbers (like the on/off plus minus)…..especially since our wing defender comes from the SF position.
Frankly, looking at this list (where is Gallinari, PF?), I think you make a pretty good case that we’ll stand pat. Most teams would be happy to have two of the top 30.
"This is two good games in a row for Carter -- not a full blown trend yet, but if it becomes one the Magic just got a lot more scary." ~Kurt Helin
I was wondering the same thing, Gallinari should be listed.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
we need a combo guard or an sf who can draw fouls to get shaq out of the game
also we need to trade jameer nelson. heheheheheh
in OTIS we TRUST...
Let's let the Nelson stuff go, a'right?
Can’t have “in OTIS we TRUST” as your sig and keep busting on his personnel moves.
But I agree that a foul-drawing slasher to get opposing big men on the bench would be a huge asset for this team.
"This is two good games in a row for Carter -- not a full blown trend yet, but if it becomes one the Magic just got a lot more scary." ~Kurt Helin
by magicfaninTN on Feb 12, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Come on now. That's not helpful.
Talking about either a SF upgrade or showing that our existing SFs are reasonable for their price and output is certainly legit….especially as the trade deadline approaches.
If anything, the comment borders on useless. :|
"This is two good games in a row for Carter -- not a full blown trend yet, but if it becomes one the Magic just got a lot more scary." ~Kurt Helin
by magicfaninTN on Feb 12, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
It's not useless.
It’s a post to promote discussion.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
btw, Dark,
What is the source of your numbers? Where are you getting the 3pt % from and on what date of the season? Are you looking at career or season averages?
"This is two good games in a row for Carter -- not a full blown trend yet, but if it becomes one the Magic just got a lot more scary." ~Kurt Helin
I was pulling from ESPN, using today's season-to-date numbers
I didn’t want to use career numbers, since a player could be doing better or worse this year than historically
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
hmm. Let me see..
I think Rudy Gay would be a nice fit in Orlando in the future.
I think Orlando’s biggest need is to get younger at the back-up PG spot.
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You're always preaching Gay. I don't know why, he's nothing special and wouldn't be a good fit.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
You feel one way, I feel another.
I think he is good young player, you may disagree, but that is fine.
He is an efficent scorer, his defense is ok, but it will improve playing next D12- He isn’t a special player, but we can’t afford special players.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=TgguE
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He's not efficient, though.
His TS% and eFG% is average. His Offensive Rating is solid, but nothing to brag about. Gay looks good compared to Carter but I still wouldn’t recommend acquiring him. There’s better fits out there.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I would think Anthony Morrow might be a good fit.
But I don’t know if he can play D. It’s hard to tell one way or the other with a Golden State player.
I hate Varejao.
No, I do like Morrow.
He’s efficient and would be an ideal player for the Magic, strictly for his offense. I know the Warriors are awful defensively but some of Morrow’s defensive numbers are good.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Gotcha
You just think Bass has more value than Morrow. I just think Morrow is such a good fit and Bass at this point isn’t, that the deal makes sense.
The Magic can get something better for Bass than Morrow.
by erivera7 on Jan 30, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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I do think Bass has more value, but I see your point.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I don't get this.
What exactly could Bass do to become useful to us? I feel like, even if he learns the defense, he’s a worse scorer than Anderson (in our offense), a worse rebounder and a somewhat better defender. And if Bass hasn’t figured the Magic’s defense out in over half a season, you have to wonder if it’s even possible for him to learn it.
So the ideal Bass is… probably still not a rotation guy for the Magic. At best, that’s a question mark. And with Ryan Anderson having more room to grow as a player than Bass, the race isn’t going to look any better for Bass in the coming years. The guy is a fifth big man for us, plain and simple — and he’s making way too much money for a fifth big man.
As for Morrow — he’s the modern-day Steve Kerr. Doesn’t do much of anything else, but he’s got possibly the purest three-point shot in the league, and an amazingly quick release. I’d love to see him as a target for the inside-outside game… his man couldn’t stray off him at all. Meanwhile, he’s got a great contract. He’s only making $1 million next year.
I’m not saying we need him — JJ is doing the job that would be his quite nicely, thanks. But if we lose JJ, we could do a lot worse than Morrow in that role.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
I'm not talking about Bass fits with the Magic.
I’m saying that Orlando can get more in a trade for Bass than Morrow.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I don't think so.
I feel like Bass’ ceiling is as a 7th-8th man — a one-position backup, 15-20 minutes. Morrow is also a 7th-8th man — a one-position backup. Of course, Morrow is doing WELL at being a 7th-8th man. (Except that the Warriors are playing him more than that, but that’s the Warriors.) They have the same basic talent level, plus Bass isn’t living up to that level, plus he’s making a lot of money for a guy at that level.
This isn’t like Gortat. No team is going to look at Bass and think “hey, there’s our future starter!” That would’ve been a stretch before this season, and after he’s gotten completely edged out of the rotation in Orlando, his stock is substantially lower than that.
(Why? What level of player do you think Bass could command in return?)
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
Bass averaged 20 minutes per game for a 50-win team in each of the last 2 years, and played well in doing so
He’s worth a bit more than you think he is, though I give you credit for calling the signing a bad one, what was it, over a month before it happened?
depending
On who we can trade him for, the signing could be a good one. I do agree with 3.3 though, not sure Bass>Morrow.
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Maybe I just tend to like a little more rebounding from my big men — unless they can hit the three. And you can’t discount the Orlando defense thing — if I’m a coach considering trading for Bass, that’s a huge red flag that’s been exposed in the last few months.
But I don’t see how this contradicts what I’m saying. Bass played 18-20 minutes in Dallas — he wasn’t a starter, he wasn’t the sixth man, he was just after those guys in the rotation. And he worked in that context, but I don’t see any reason to believe he could handle an expanded role — even on a team like Dallas, where he fit in.
Whereas — would Morrow be effective for 18-20 minutes a game on a team that needed a SG to play 18-20 minutes a game? I imagine so. Now, I’ll also concede that SGs are a bit easier to find than PFs, but there are different kinds of SGs. Pure shooters of Morrow’s caliber are pretty rare.
Doesn’t matter — I don’t think we trade for Morrow specifically. I’m just saying.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
I love him. He's basically automatic from the outside.
As a specialist for 8-10 minutes a game, sure.
Well, let's get Otis the memo.
Trades in the NBA are that easy, right?
I hate Varejao.
I don't even think Gay is a realistic target.
The word seems to be that a team with loads of cap space that doesn’t get Wade, Bosh, James, Johnson, or any of the other top FAs will feel pressure to use that money somehow, and will overpay Gay as a result. As in, 8-figures for a guy who’s probably the 3rd or 4th option on a title team.
But if Memphis gets antsy they could try trading him now to make sure they get something for him. They won’t match an offer sheet like the one he’s likely to sign.
Can he defend? I would like that he’s a SF, leaving the backcourt open for a better defender than a VC or JJ.
No.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Eddy, what about Deng if he were available?
And learned to stop shooting long 2s.
"This is two good games in a row for Carter -- not a full blown trend yet, but if it becomes one the Magic just got a lot more scary." ~Kurt Helin
Not that you asked me, but I wouln't want to take on that long-term money.
I also think a natural 2-guard is more of a need than SF is.
I agree with Ben but I will say that Deng's defense would be an asset, theoretically.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Chicago wouldn't trade Deng for Kobe a few years ago.
So I don’t know what they would trade him for. Maybe they’ve changed their stance since then. Those crazy Bulls…
I hate Varejao.
Things may have changed. From Ken Berger:
In addition to peddling Kirk Hinrich, sources say the Bulls also are exploring interest in Luol Deng, who has four years and $51 million left after this season. Trading both of them – or packaging one of them with Thomas – would provide Chicago with enough cap space to score two max free agents this coming summer, effectively placing them on equal footing with the Heat in the 2010 chase.
emphasis mine. Link.
The day I see the Bulls finally pull the trigger on a big deal...
Will be the day I stop making fun of my best friend, who’s a die-hard Bulls fan. Trading Nocioni and garbage for Salmons and garbage doesn’t count. They could’ve made so many moves so many times.
I hate Varejao.
The Bulls are and have been cheap.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
donte greene
if the magic want a wing sharpshooter maybe he is a nice fit for the magic. greene can play the 2 and 3 position and he is 6’11
in OTIS we TRUST...
Greene is far from a sharpshooter.
Donte plays mostly at the 3, anyway, and Orlando has enough small forwards.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Let’s add the entire “BobCavs” starting 5 to our bench. They somehow own the Cavs lol. I think Gerald Wallace would be the only guy I’d trade pietrus or barnes for. He plays Lebron pretty well and he’s even taken it to Lebron this year.
by jonathan.rivera84 on Feb 14, 2010 4:16 PM EST reply actions
Wallace make $9.5 mil
compared to Pietrus at $5.3 or Barnes at $1.6.
Would you give Pietrus and Bass $4.0 mil) for Wallace?
by NC Magic Fan on Feb 16, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Of course we would.
But Charlotte never would.
"This is two good games in a row for Carter -- not a full blown trend yet, but if it becomes one the Magic just got a lot more scary." ~Kurt Helin
by magicfaninTN on Feb 16, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
No offense to the Predator but that's a little sad.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
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