Dwight Howard's Technical Fouls Concern Orlando Magic
by Evan Dunlap on Dec 31, 2010 2:28 AM EST
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PrintOrlando Magic center Dwight Howard earned his league-leading 12th technical foul in Thursday night's 112-103 victory against the New York Knicks, bringing him within four technicals of drawing a league-mandated, one-game suspension. And for every two technicals he picks up after his 16th, he will have to sit an additional game. Orlando is but 33 games into its season, and its franchise player/MVP candidate is perilously close to missing at least one game for something utterly preventable.
Less than two minutes into the game against the Knicks, Howard fumbled a ball out of bounds and said something to warrant a technical call. After the game, coach Stan Van Gundy said Howard was upset at himself and yelled "Damn!" in frustration. He also reiterated his stance that NBA officials "are looking to see [Howard's] reaction [after they make a call against him]", a comment sure to draw a fine from the league.
And then Van Gundy went further.
"Other guys get away with this stuff [....] I guess 'damn' is a technical and 'bull----' is OK, based on what I saw tonight."
Moments later, in Orlando's locker room, Howard offered his take: "It's tough. You just gotta play through it." He managed to avoid much further substantial commentary on the issue by respectfully reminding the media they watch the games as well and can form their own opinions about them.
Regardless of why Howard has the officials' attention, or whether they target him unfairly, the fact remains that Howard needs to rein in the histrionics that have him racking up the technicals at such a rapid rate. Howard is averaging one technical per every 91.3 minutes played, a staggering number. However, he's well of Rasheed Wallace's record-setting 2000/01 pace, when the combustible veteran drew 41 technical fouls in 2940 minutes, or one every 71.7 minutes.
Gilbert Arenas, a new teammate of Howard's, offered an interesting assessment of Howard's attitude with the officials.
"I think sometimes he looks to get the techs but he plays like he's not looking to get the techs," said Arenas with a laugh. He composed himself and then added, "but like I told him, he has 12, and I think four more, that's when we're going to start having problems. Because that's when it starts affecting the team."
Arenas said Howard "is always gonna say something" after he picks up a "frustration foul," usually at the offensive end. He's tried to tell Howard to stop pushing off opponents with one hand once he has two feet in the paint. Knicks forward Danilo Gallinari, among the many players in the league who can't possibly hope to guard Howard one-on-one, drew two such push-off fouls on Howard under the rim when Howard needlessly shoved him.
Van Gundy acknowledged the seriousness of Howard's technical-foul situation, but nonetheless put the onus on Howard to correct the problem. "He knows what's at stake," Van Gundy said. "It's not something that's going to cause me to lose sleep. I think that's a situation he's going to have to handle [....] I'm going to worry about our defense and getting us more organized offensively and things like that."
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Gil giving Dwight lessons on frustration..
is like Whitney Houston saying “crack is wack”. Let’s just hope they aren’t playing cards on the plane together anytime soon.
I’m kidding.
ORL★NDO, our time will come.
by magic12ball on Dec 31, 2010 3:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Man this many Techs and its not even 2011 yet lol!
Guess Dwight was telling the truth about being serious. Techs Don’t Lie
Great players rarely lose their temper
They never allow their emotions to dictate the game and affect their team. If Dwight wants to become one of the greats of the game he has to learn to control his emotions.
I meant that in the sense of if any of the great players
are/were playing in the league today with all the BS T’s being handed out, they wouldn’t accumulate the rate that Dwight is going at. They wouldn’t try and “provoke” the refs.
Dwight already has what, 13 T’s right now? As the article has stated and you should all know by now that if he doesn’t stop it may hurt us in the playoff rankings. Hence, home court advantage.
People really think Dwight provokes refs and opponents?
Crazy
by CaliFlorida on Dec 31, 2010 3:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You know he's getting techs for a reason.
Whether or not they are fair, its still being called. That alone shows you he’s doing something wrong.
So the Ts are warranted because they are called?
That makes very little sense.
by CaliFlorida on Dec 31, 2010 11:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Warranted? No
But giving the refs an excuse to call them no matter how biased they maybe towards Dwight isn’t smart.
Just like how it isn’t smart to go out publicly to say Dwight gets less favoritism by the refs. In fact, that’s probably one of the reasons why the refs will be more inclined to T him up.
Ya, Shaq never tried to punch Brad Miller in the back of the head
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Dec 31, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Kobe and Ledouche do it every game
who would of thought we would be arguably the greatest of all time
around here we developed such a sound down here
but duplicate it off the steel it can only be found here
I hope Dwight gets 4 techs in the next...
…7 games. #16@ Minn. And then he has to sit out the Boston game. It’s the only way to teach sometimes-take away what’s most dear to them. If he has to sit out against Minn//Char/GS, it’s not going to impress upon him enough. Sometimes you have to treat children like children. I do sometimes think he acts immaturely. Is he immature-don’t know him. But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…
When you arrive at a fork in the road, take it. (Otis took it!)
Yogi Berra
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
I just don’t see it. I don’t see Dwight acting outlandishly, don’t see him chasing after refs like Kobe, lebron, Paul pierce etc. Don’t see him showing up other players like Garnett. Definitely don’t see him acting immature like someone like rasheed Wallace. I don’t see the problem as utterly preventable b/c it is utterly inexplicable.
by CaliFlorida on Dec 31, 2010 7:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It's not just you
However, when you can take what would be a marginal “delay of game call” and call a technical foul with impunity, it’s going to look crazy no matter what.
Y'know, for kids.
I think it could be safe to say
that in the same way, NBA changed its rules in the past to deal with players like Barkley, Shaq, even letting J-Will get his in a time where the league was desperate for some “flash”, this “respect of the game” crap has something to do with Dwight. Stern migth be affraid that Dwight could be dominating enough to make NBA less competitive or something. Or maybe it’s just me. Either way, it is getting ridiculous.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
The tech's arent even half of it
How many of Dwight’s foul are silly non-calls that change the course of the game for us. It seems like he gets 3 a game
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 31, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Gilbert said something like that after the Knicks game.
I didn’t have my recorder rolling—I don’t think anyone did—but he said basically Howard doesn’t get his money’s worth on a lot of his fouls.
Sounds like Gilbert's not afraid to call it like it is . . .
Maybe the Magic should ask him to talk to Dwight about his techs and stupid fouls?
lol
R.I.P. Peaches . . . Your love for the Magic was only eclipsed by your love for untimely turnovers.
"Stern might be afraid that Dwight dominating enough to make the NBA less competitive"
pretty sure Stern will pull strings in his favor especially now that the 3-me-egos are on the same team in miami.
I highly doubt that
Every since Jordan, Stern has done everything in his power to turn the focus of the NBA to the perimeter players. I don’t know if he thinks that since MJ was popular only players like him can be money makers for the NBA, but he does govern that way.
Y'know, for kids.
Does the suspension rule extend into the playoffs?
Fill in the blanks: Sacramento ⇒ Spurs ⇒ Orlando ⇒ …… ⇒ Suns ⇒ …… | Pistons ⇒ Jazz | Bucks ⇒ N/A ⇒ Bucks | …… | Celtics
You get 7 in the playoffs before suspension.
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
Hello, handsome, is that a ten-gallon hat or are you just enjoying the show?
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Dec 31, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
SVG's quote is most enlightening.
Why is him saying “Damn!” a T?
I’m very seriously asking why that warrants one when saying “Bull——!” isn’t.
http://borntohustleroses.blogspot.com/
Because Dwight gets more attention from officials due to the amount of fouls/situations he is involved in.
Him complaining on nearly every play probably doesn’t help him much either.
And always acting innocent.
He seriously acts like he did nothing wrong and seems genuinely shocked that he is being called for a foul.
I'm a girl too.
Haters gonna hate.
the reason being is he gets hit a lot without anything being called
and then either he swings his arm (which he does frequently, and should be called a foul most of the time) and the guy flies away like they were shot by a rocket, or he gets called for touch fouls
This is exactly the problem...
Guys are being allowed to to take cheap shots at him while defending him…blatantly hack him when its obvious that they aren’t even going for the ball..hang on his arms to stop him from going up to get a rebound, and as soon as he tries to get guys off of him..he gets hit with the the foul. And because he’s big..the NBA just expects him to deal with it on a nightly basis. I’m sorry..but that is absurd. There is a discrepancy in the way games are called with in the post with other teams and the with the Magic..its is very obvious that that guys are much more physically aggressive with Dwight and are allowed to be. A great example of this was in last years playoff series against the Celtics (I don’t remember which game it was..but I’m sure you guys remember) when KG took 4 or 5 “karate chops” at Dwight’s arms while play had stopped. These “karate chops” were even replayed in slow motion on televison with the referees looking right at what KG was doing..he wasn’t hit with a tech (when he obviously should’ve been thrown out of the game), he wasn’t fined, and he wasn’t suspended…I’m just saying..it’s not fair.
by shaymac on Dec 31, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Now..do u guys think that Dwight would've been able to take "karate chops" at KG's arms and not be thrown out of the games, suspended, or fined???
I DON’T THINK SO..
Considering KG's bones are made of glass....
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 31, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Right on shay
And its just a catch 22- He reacts because it’s BS, the refs react because he reacts. If they want him to stop complaining, then call him fairly. He takes and takes it, but when he finally reacts to a man hanging on him, with a push or an elbow, he gets the whistle. And then he reacts, as most humans do, when they are treated unfairly. And now he has a ‘rep’ so he’s already on strike 2 with the refs before he opens his mouth. Guys like KG and Kobe do way more jawing with the refs, and they do get techs, but not like Howard does. And once Kobe or Lebron gets foul #5 it would take them bringing a chainsaw on the court to pick up #6- since no ref wants to be the 1 that sits a mega-star people paid to come see. But to me the NBA doesnt really care as much about respecting a small market team and their players than they do their glamour teams. If that seems too conspiracy theory and wacky I apologize- just my opinion
You're explanation of why Dwight is held to a double standard might be speculation.
But Dwight being held to a double standard compared to other superstars is a fact.
by CaliFlorida on Dec 31, 2010 11:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What is strange...
Is that there are worse reactions than what Dwight did to get his T within the same game. Also, one of the “respect for the game” bits was about prolonged complaining… Well, the game was only 2 minutes old and it was the first reaction he had.
Amare’s tech was even worse, and then he had about 4 other instances in the game where he had worse reactions than Dwight. Unbelievable.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Yeah, I want to see a video compilation
I want to see all of Dwight’s Ts this season put together with other plays from the same game (so you can’t use the “different ref” defense) to see the difference.
For example, I’m thinking of the Cleveland game and Verejao’s reaction that included beating himself in the head and yelling at a ref all the way to mid court.
Y'know, for kids.
I hope Verejao punches himself in the cheek accidentally now that he fractured it.
But honestly, the tech Amare got was more ridiculous than Dwight’s. I would’ve booed the hell out of the refs for calling that tech if I was at the game. I want to see players yell, “Get that s**t out of here!” after swatting something. He didn’t even do it in another player’s direction. Ugh terrible.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
The Refs know Dwight will react, so they wait for and it im with a Tec.
He has a reputation now, the only way to change that is for Dwight to say nothing.
You can hear Dwight yell “HEYYY” everytime he thinks he gets hit, which comes everytime he misses a shot or get the ball knocked out of his hands.
It sucks that he's getting targeted, which he is.
However, he does whine a lot, and he just needs to adapt. That’s the harsh reality of it. As Gilbert said (I can’t believe I’m agreeing with him on something), it’s going to start affecting the team soon. That’s when it becomes more than just a silly joke.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
yeah he does whine a little too much
Also someone needs to tell him that this clapping that’s he’s doing after bad calls only makes him look childish
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 31, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yup
It’s like when the guy called the 10-second FT violation. Dwight returned the ball directly to the baseline official. However, since he rolled it instead of throwing it, they blew a technical because they deemed it some kind of “reaction” instead of a crazy-weak delay of game call that it should have been at worst.
Y'know, for kids.
What's even better is that apparently LeBron was taking 12-13 seconds at the line too.
No call on him, of course.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
He whines less than Kobe, Lebron, Paul pierce, etc.
But gets T’d up way more. There’s a double standard.
by CaliFlorida on Dec 31, 2010 11:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He also throws things in the stands way less than Pierce.
Unless we count the film he does a fake fade-away with at the beginning of each game.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Just out of curiosity...
Sorry about that…. has any of the silly tech been rescinded?
Is Gil really the only person that's going to approach this situation correctly?
Even Van Gundy isn’t handling this issue correctly! He can’t continue feeding into Howard’s conspiracy theory mentality. That really doesn’t help, in fact it makes things worse. Gilbert seems to be the only person who is not afraid to point out that this is all on Dwight. The dumb offensive fouls that are clearly fouls, the frustration fouls where Dwight swings an elbow at a smaller guy who’s playing him hard like Gallinairi last night, the bitching after every single call whether it goes against Dwight or not. Dwight even complains after the guy guarding him gets called for the foul. He seems to be trying to explain to the refs what’s happening out there. Just shut the @#$% up!!! It doesn’t matter if he’s right and the ref is wrong. Just shut you’re worthless dumb mouth and move on. There’s not a ref in the league at this point that respect a single word that come out of Dwight’s mouth. I love Dwight for what he brings to the team but if I could have his voice box removed I’d pay for the operation myself.
The team, the coaches, teammates, fans and media have to stop with blaming the refs on this one. It’s gone way past the point of putting the blame on them. They are going to keep calling it the way their calling it. They will not change and they shouldn’t have to. Dwight needs to use an ounce of mental fortitude and focus on biting his lip at all times. No more of this “the refs are against me”, “the league is against me”, “I’m the only superstar that get’s treated this way” childish attitude. He needs to man up and fix the problem that HE and HE alone has created. And coaches and teammates need to man up and tell him that instead of feeding his childish “teacher doesn’t like me and that’s why I get bad grades” attitude. Man up Son!!!
Crushing weaker minds since 1978
Over 1 million served.
by Matty B on Dec 31, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yea we do. But I dont think its gonna happen.
It seems like this started happening after we beat the Cavs which killed the NBA’s dream of having LeBron and Kobe in the finals.Remember the finals commercial was made before the finals even started!
Crazy talk, conspiracy BS
The implication the Dwight Howard or the Orlando Magic are being singled out and treated unfairly by the refs is completely delusional and childish. Yes, of course the refs and by association the NBA, is clearly going out of it’s way to punish one of it’s most marketable young superstars. Please come back down to earth conspiracy theorists and see how insane that sounds. Dwight’s juvenile reactions when frustrated, his non stop mouth which in no doubt tops in the league and his thoughtless arm movements are the one and only cause of his foul woes. If he gets a bit of a short leash when complaining it’s because he’s brought it on himself through his actions. Why coninue defending him and feeding into the “Hold Dwight down” conspiracy when the easy and ONLY real answer is that he needs to change his ways. It will improve his mental focus and lower his level of frustration and in a short period of time the refs will ease up on him. It’s simple science.
Crushing weaker minds since 1978
Over 1 million served.
by Matty B on Dec 31, 2010 5:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Dwight has the worst calls against him in the league. He also gets the benefit of fewer whistles on the offensive end because even though he gets hit, it doesn't appear so.
There were 5 or 6 plays during hte first quarter yesterday where he was hit/hacked/shoved and nothing was called. He has a right to be frustrated. He can’t just keep taking the punishment and live with it. It isn’t right that he has to take all of it without getting fouls called on opposing players and he gets called for touch fouls. He isn’t really being “singled out” like most people think, but he gets far fewer “beneficial” whistles than any player in the league.
Keep banging one's head against the wall is not going to eliminate all the inequities of the world.
The issue has to be dealt with in a pragmatic manner. The point is not fairness or lack thereof. The point is what could be done to stop excessive damage to the team, and Dwight himself for an exemplary player he is.
I might just go the other way if im Dwight
If they’re going to call me for anything and everything anyway, 1 game when he’s just getting hacked to no end, if the refs wont do anything about it- take matters into your own hands. Im talking dropping an elbow like Karl Malone did Isiah back in the day- maybe if he breaks a couple of jaws with a meaningful elbow, people will just lay off for fear of their safety. At this point its like being able to punch the school bully and get away with it- there’s no reason not to if your the opponent- you hack him- they either call it and put a 55% FT shooter on the line, or.. they dont, and you can get a ticky tack foul called on him to boot.
Anyone who doesnt feel the NBA has the most rigged officiating in American sports is blind to the control Stern wields over this league. It’s practically the WWE with dunks.
The last line of your post is silly.
But the first part is at least debatable. The thing is, Shaq got into a fight with Charles Barkley and that never stopped players from fouling the hell out of him. This is the area that Dwight and Shaq are actually most similar… they do not get officiated like any other player in the NBA.
It’s not even that the refs won’t call the hits… a lot of times refs react to the way the body does to determine foul calls (exhibit a: 75% of the fouls that Paul Pierce draws are simply because he jerks his head and arms around whenever someone is close to him). Dwight and Shaq have been hit hard enough for them to be flagrant, but because they’re stronger (through their own work and natural ability) they apparently get the short end of the stick. A mere personal foul gets called. Often when someone hits either player hard enough for it to be a personal, it doesn’t look like anything, because they are so strong that they just power through it. A ref has to have the angle to see the players definitely hit them to call something. Dwight doesn’t help his cause with turning over the ball so much that sometimes when he’s stripped and fouled, a ref might think that’s just a normal Dwight TO.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
SERIOUSLY?? Dude..you're IMPOSSIBLE..
EVERYONE in the league complains..seemingly after EVERY call is made. The fact of the matter is..the refs have little leeway with Dwight is comparison to any other player in the league (by a LONG SHOT). If he even looks in the direction of a ref after they call a foul on him, you can see that they are ready to T him up…its RIDICULOUS. Yesterday, when the Magic played the Knicks for instance, there were many times during the course of the game where Amare’s reactions to fouls called upon him were demonstrative and showed up the refs..if they were using the same standards as they are when pertaining to Dwight…Amare should’ve recieved 4 or 5 techs during the game!! Standards are OBVIOUSLY different when it comes to Dwight (according to the referees)..and that is just plain WRONG….EVERYONE should be referreed the same way…just saying
If all's fair...
Dwight should have received a 2nd tech in that game for stupidly getting frustrated with Gallinari (spelling) and hitting him with an elbow to the head after play had stopped. The thought that refs are singling Dwight out more then any other player is madness. YES, other players complain too, but none as much as Dwight. You can tell me I’m wrong but just watch some games other then Magic games and you’ll see that Dwight has become the King of the Bitchers. All this debate is truly unnecessary though because the simple answer is this: The refs and not going to change, the rules are not going to change so the only option is that Dwight has to change. Is as simple as him just keeping his mouth shut. A simple task for any human with a functional mind. Dwight may not have the mental power to control his childlike whining and if that’s the case prepare to see him miss about 5 games this year do to suspension. The reasons and the rational really don’t matter, the only answer is SHUT UP DWIGHT. Oh and a little more control on those dumb frustration fouls. Think Dwight… which might hurt… but he’s got to think!
Crushing weaker minds since 1978
Over 1 million served.
I totally agree
I question the wisdom of Dwight complaining in-game, especially when knows the officials are paying him extra attention. Some of his techs don’t deserve to be called, sure, but for the majority his body language and demeanor show a lot of disrespect to the refs.
Lobbying for equal treatment is perfectly reasonable. But seriously Dwight… quit complaining and get on with the game. Since when has his whining ever yielded something positive for the team?
by simsherman on Dec 31, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No other superstar gets Ts for "body language"
If you think otherwise, you’re delusional.
by CaliFlorida on Dec 31, 2010 11:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is an oxymoron discussion which needs Dwight's attention - first and foremost - as well as any help which he could get.
From a pragmatic standpoint, the following arguments are senseless, if not outright foolish:
1 – Dwight is not treated the same way that some other superstars are treated. Let’s assume – for the sake of argument – that it is true. The league and the referees are not going to admit that they are treating players differently. Therefore, although complaints could be filed and techs could be rescinded – here and there – the battle is not going to be won.
2 – Support our man – We will support Dwight to the extent possible in fighting inequities, but our man has to man up, and control his emotions for the good of the team.
I have mentioned in an earlier post that Dwight’s Emotional Intelligence level needs to be improved, meaning that he should be able to control/channel his emotions in a positive way. EI is a rather novel concept finding its way from psychology to business. It is advisable that Magic retains the services of an EI specialist before this issue causes more hardship on the team.
Hey Matt,
Could you post a link to some of the EI research, if you have it? I only am familiar with Goleman’s work on the subject, and I didn’t know there were EI specialists who were already applying it to sports.
I jokingly said earlier that Dwight should get some self-help books, thinking mindful breath or some thinking like that, but it would be interesting to see if this EI idea has legs. At this point, the Magic need to try whatever works, and I don’t think $200 a foul is getting it done!
Thanks,
Red
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
I'm just saying: What if "being right" and "having the last post" as an anonymous personality on a sports blog aren't really big deals?
I have quite a bit of material - for and against - EI on my system but they are in PDF format collected from academic libraries.
You can use any library which you have access to for downloading the following material:
Fisher, C. & Ashkanasy, N. (2000). The emergence role of emotions in work life: An introduction. Journal of Organizational Behavior, 21, 123-128. This volume of the journal includes six articles on EI.
Locke, E. (2005). Why emotional intelligence is an invalid concept. Journal of Organizational Behavior, 26, 425-431. doi: 10.1002/job.318
Wall, R. (2007). Being smart only takes you so far. American Society for Training & Development, 64-68.
I am sure there are EI specialists – do not have to be sports related – since the issue of controlling/channeling emotions is not new in psychology. But yet I don’t claim to be an expert in the field of Organizational Behavior or Human Resource Management. In fact HRM is the field which I am least interested or practice in.
Thanks. I think I can get these through JSTOR, but otherwise I am sure my institution has databases! I appreciate it!
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
I'm just saying: What if "being right" and "having the last post" as an anonymous personality on a sports blog aren't really big deals?
The Magic have had more free throws attempted than their opponents in 19 games so far
…their opponents have had more free throws attempted in 13 games, while one game has seen an equal amount of free throws attempted.
Foul-wise, the Magic have been whistled for more fouls than their opponents in 11 games, while their opponents have been whistled for more fouls in 21 games, with one game an equal amount of fouls were called.
Chicago Bears... 2010 NFC North Champions... Go Bears!
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 31, 2010 8:04 PM EST reply actions
The one issue with analyzing those numbers is...
Most games, the opposing team is trying to foul Dwight almost every time he catches the ball. Opposing coaches talk about how they need to not let him get a shot off and put him on the line… and then they complain to the refs (and sometimes in post-game interviews) that their guys are collecting fouls.
One more note… one of Stan’s defensive philosophies is to avoid fouling even moreso than most coaches (the Knicks game was not indicative of that, because we were hacking away in the second half). So who knows how that plays into those numbers as well.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
The only thing I know is all this is brings unwanted attention to the Magic.
I dont see how it can get better.The more Van Gundy and Howard get fined(thisyearandlastyear) for speaking against the refs the more they are gonna make a target out of us.
by era2008 on Jan 2, 2011 5:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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