Though Early, Gilbert Arenas' Offense with Orlando Magic a Cause for Concern
The Orlando Magic riding high once again this season, having ending winning streaks of 10 and 14 games in consecutive victories over the San Antonio Spurs and Boston Celtics, respectively. They accomplished the first feat with brilliant offense and the second with lock-down defense in the second half, which has coach Stan Van Gundy talking optimistically about the "potential" for the new-look crew going forward. But despite the wins, newcomers Gilbert Arenas, Jason Richardson, and Hedo Turkoglu have yet to really hit their strides offensively. Arenas, for all his brilliance in leading a second-quarter run against the Spurs, has taken 40 shots in 98 minutes, but at just a 27.5 percent clip. Richardson's at 37.2 percent form the floor, and Turkoglu is at 40 percent.
Going forward, though, Arenas figures to be the biggest concern for this team. Richardson's demonstrated over his career he's rather unlikely to continue shooting this poorly, and as Van Gundy finds ways to work him into the offense, he should be back to normal in no time; the same holds true for Turkoglu, who's at least managed to hit 38.9 percent of his three-pointers and dish 5.3 assists per game, looking like a natural fit as a playmaker in Van Gundy's system.
But Arenas? He can't continue to shoot so often at such a low percentage, even if his playmaking--he has 18 assists in 4 games--impresses. His overall track record indicates his percentages should improve slightly, but even before the trade, he shot 39.4 percent on the season. Last year, that figure was 38.1 percent. It's fair to wonder if he'll ever get back into the "acceptable" range for a volume-shooting guard. Former Sixth-Men of the Year Leandro Barbosa, Jamal Crawford, Manu Ginobili, and Jason Terry have demonstrated how valuable scoring guards can be off goods teams' benches, but neither shot as poorly as Arenas has for the last several seasons.
According to Synergy Sports Technology, Orlando's new backup point guard is just 9-of-30 on jumpers (7-of-22 off the dribble) with Orlando, and 1-of-6 in the immediate basket area, for example. His tendency to pop early 18-footers from near the top of the key is hurting Orlando's offense.
I see two potential solutions. The first is to stop shooting at such a high volume, and the second is to try passing more often. But given that the Magic made those trades to aid their offensive firepower, it would appear as though Arenas' directive is to shoot. Among the reasons Chris Duhon fell out of the rotation, for example, is he simply didn't shoot enough. The Magic need a more aggressive backup point guard than Duhon, and a scoring threat. Though Arenas thrice averaged better than 25 points per game in his career, his days as a top-shelf scorer are squarely behind him. It's time he adjusts his game to compensate.
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i have the feeling that he is very hesitant in our offense still
he isnt sure to shoot or not because of all the fire power we have he keeps second guessing himself
He's using a shooting possession about every 2 minutes he's in the game,
and he sure doesn’t look hesitant to shoot when he frustratingly puts up those contested 18-footers early in the shot clock. No, his issue is that he’s bad at shooting, and he’s been bad at shooting for years now, but people seem to keep expecting him to step out of a time machine…….and he has 4 more years left on his contract.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 27, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Have you been to the games?????
If you have than surely you have seen how hesitant he looks. I think he is he has to get accustomed to being wide open for the 18 foot jumpers. When howard sets a screen he totally frees Arenas for a jumper, he is wide open and I am more than sure that howards picks are much better than McGee’s. Pietrus had 25 last night, want him back to????? he is shooting much better than Arenas.
Pietrus has nothing to do with the fact that Arenas's knees are shot, robbing him of the ability to shoot consistently.
The last time Arenas even made 35% of his three-pointers was the 2006-2007 season, which was also the last season before his career derailed (note: it was still only 35.1%, which that is still not a good percentage in this offense, and he’s been significantly lower since).
Last season – the first that Gilbert Arenas managed to even play as many as 32 games since his career’s demise – the league average TS% was 53.4 for point guards and 54.1 for shooting guards. Arenas? A chilly 51.1.
This season, the league average TS% for point guards and shooting guards is 53.4 and 54.3 respectively. Arenas’s TS% is an atrocious 48.9, which includes his supposedly acceptable time in Washington this season.
Jason Richardson? 56.2 this season. Vince Carter? 55.7 this season. Rashard freakin’ Lewis? 52.2 (league average for PFs is 54.5) – below average for sure, but not the truly horribly level Gilbert Arenas is [under]achieving this season.
At this point, I have talked myself into the Phoenix trade, given that I much prefer JRichardson to Carter and that I believe the Magic will find some way to semi-replace Gortat. The Washington trade remains terrible.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 27, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Rashard just dropped a 21 and 12 last night.
Looks like he could still do some damage when he’s more involved in an offense.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
In a blowout loss
Yippee!
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 27, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
He was 7-15 with three 3's before the 4th quarter.
Facts… yippee!
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
To disregard everything else you said, because it's not worth addressing...
Yes, I’d rather have Pietrus than Arenas. He’s bigger, shoots better, a much better defender, and he’s much, MUCH cheaper. I can’t emphasize the last part enough.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Duhon is better than Rafer Alston.
I am better than Thabeet.
I hate Duhon with a passion
But he’s still better than Rafer freaking Alston.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
maybe we should bench him and put Duhon back in
not…….give it som time, it has been only 4 games and 1 practice, practice means a lot and his passing does to, also he pushes the ball unlike Duhon
Don't like the percentage
But I like the aggression. Remember I believe he said himself he is not in real gameshape yet. So I think he will be fine in about a week or so. Love the vision though. And he is trying really hard on defense. Had a big steal against San Antonio. All the talk about defense to me was always overrated. Stan still here? Yes. Dwight? Yes. Ok we are fine on defense.
by Mateo9399 on Dec 27, 2010 8:12 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Arenas at least has the size to deal with the big PG's that love tormenting Jameer
He should improve on that end now that he knows he has DH behind him
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 27, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
"Stan still here? Yes. Dwight? Yes. Ok we are fine on defense."
This this this!!!
The only Magic fan here that expects to WIN
Party Foul
you can’t “this” your OWN post
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 27, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Arenas
Actually has a lower PER than Duhon does through the first five games of his Magic career.
At least Duhon was scoring somewhat efficiently when he did shoot the ball. Gil’s TS% is a horrific 35.6% so far.
He needs to start hitting shots. His contract is bad enough without him wasting possessions missing field goals.
*First four games
Of Arenas’ career, that is.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
Duhon went through training camp with the magic
Arenas hasn’t had that luxury. Does anyone really think Duhon would be better creating a shot off the dribble to drive or pass it to an open shooter?
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Dec 27, 2010 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on your perspective, I guess
It’s not like Arenas isn’t fit so whilst the training camp argument might have some team cohesion effect, it’s hard to think Arenas shouldn’t be shooting the ball a lot better than he is.
Arenas is probably better at creating a shot off the dribble, but he might just be worse right now at actually putting that shot in the hoop. Let’s hope he improves, he needs to.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
True
But he is passing the ball really good. I think he will be fine when he settles in. I know he has been shooting bad, but let him get so time in here.
Mmm
He’s still not creating as well as Nelson, though.
My assumption, as I went to Basketball Reference to check on Duhon and Arenas, was that even though Arenas was playing like ass, he’d still be putting up better numbers than Duhon (who I’ve been ripping since the day Otis inked the contract).
I was pretty surprised to find out I was wrong.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
While his PER may not be as high...
He definitely doesn’t bring the entire offense to a screeching halt when he comes on the floor like Duhon does.
It’s surprising to me that his personal numbers through a few games is lower than Duhon, but the reason for that is because I don’t cringe when he’s on the floor. In fact, even if he isn’t making shots (but it’s better when he is, obviously) the rest of the team seems to play well when he’s out there.
Duhon is never going to nail a bounce pass in traffic down the lane to a cutting JJ for a layup. It’s still only 1 assist, but it’s a better assist than a crosscourt pass for a 15’ jumper. Also, teams would just dare Duhon to shoot. While they may also like Arenas to shoot, they have to be more concerned that he is going to get free for a pass or a closer shot.
Again, there is certainly room for improvement on efficiency, but there is more to his play than just the raw stats.
I hope the Magic got some name tags in one of these trades
If Arenas keeps shooting below 40%
People will be daring him to shoot soon enough.
The Nets were hanging off him tonight.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Gilbert
Lonngtime Wizards/Gilbert fan here; I have joined this blog since the trade. Gilbert’s problem as I see it (I have watched two of the games since the trade) is not so much that he has been hesitant about shooting jumpshots (althought that has indeed been the case to some extent – uou can see that he isn’t quite sure what to do in the offence) but that he hasn’t been taking the ball to the hole. In the past, on nightswhen his outside shot was off, he would get his points by driving and drawing fouls (e.g. that game against Orlando earlier this season). He hasn’t done much of that since coming to the Magic.
Off-topic...
Anyone seen the rumor that the Magic might be trying to send J-Rich to Charlotte for Diaw?
that would be absolutely horrible
I don’t like the fat version of Diaw. The version when he played well for the Suns, before he got his nice contract was good.
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Dec 27, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
dear god no
Hes our second best pickup besides Turk, he’s not going anywhere.
And on Arenas, he def needs to attack the hole more which is where he’s at his best. I’m sure SVG will be in his ear about that and we will see more penetration from him.
Can you supply a link?
That rumor doesn’t make any sense unless there are other players involved.
Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.
by funny80sguy on Dec 27, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I saw that
And that would be very, very, very stupid. Diaw is not a big. And Jason Richardson is a much better player. We actually need JRich because he is better than the other Richardson. Seriously I hope this trade does not happen. Would be dumb just to get another small forward. Would not make any sense.
Did anyone notice Gil's shoes in the picture above?
Aren’t those the same pair that Pippen first wore back in 96-96 with the Bulls?
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Dec 27, 2010 10:07 AM EST reply actions
I had those in High School..I was a HUGE Pippen fan
by Randall1178 on Dec 27, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Shoes
Gil doesn’t have a shoe contract – Adidas dropped him because of the gun incident – so he has been wearing different shoes each night this season….
I agree with pk24's post.
There is a high probability that Gilbert’s shooting percentage would improve when he settles in and gets more practice time. However, Gilbert’s true strength is driving the ball to the basket, making the layup, and draw fouls. I don’t have any numbers to validate my point, but it seems to me that in Magic’s uniform, Gilbert’s drives to the basket have not produced desirable results when they often ended in taking fade-away shots or missing layups. It is possible that – when acclimated to the system – he could pass out to open shooters if he is not able to get a good shot off himself.
The big question mark is whether or not his knees could afford such aggresive style, and for how many minutes per game?
Possible? Yes. Unlikely? Yes.
He loves shooting too much. He’s always been a high-volume shooter, and I doubt that’s ever going to change at this point.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 27, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe.
But don’t discount SVG and Otis from the equation. I think Arenas, at this point in his career, can learn to work within an offense rather than having to be the offense.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 27, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
We can only hope...
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
He has 8 FTAs to 40 FGAs with the Magic.
by Evan Dunlap on Dec 27, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Attempting 5.1 FTs per 36 minutes
Which would be his lowest mark since his second season if it holds.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I for one can live with Arenas as is
The shot isn’t falling, but I think it is good to see him shoot the ball as long as he continues to do the other things that are great benefits, like push the ball and make good passes to set up easy shots. I am hopeful that Arenas can improve his shooting percentage by a lot, the guy hasn’t played much in a couple years so I don’t see how we can judge what he can do with what he did do the past couple years. If he can stay healthy I think he will be able to find a groove. Even if he played at his current clip the rest of the year I wouldn’t mind, as he is still getting the offense in motion and creating shots. Really I am just excited to see people able to pass the ball again, I had forgotten since it seems only Redick and Jameer had the knack, and Jameer seems to have lost some touch or “plays it safe”, to lob that ball up anymore. Good to see Hedo and Gilbert aren’t bashful. As long as J Rich get his shot going and Gilbert and Hedo keep making passes to set up good shots, then I say well done. If we can get Gilbert to improve that percentage then awesome, if not, he is running the team exceptionally and keeping Jameer with fresh legs for fourth quarters. Win/Win.
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
by Eric9321 on Dec 27, 2010 10:28 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Financial concerns aside...
Since Duhon’s set such a low standard, I’m not really worried. I agree with E.D., it’s a concern, but I’ll give him until mid-January to reserve judgement. Same thing with Hedo.. I still remember the “good ol’ days” when he’d sleep through the game until the 4th quarter.
And are his knees really that shot as to the public’s perception? I haven’t really followed his career that long.
They were not
When he dropped 30 on us. Give him some to get the giddiness of being out of Washington. Either way he is much better than Duhon.
Not related to this, but did anyone see Rashards's numbers last night?
Good stuff
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Dec 27, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions
The Wizards fed him the ball
19 shots. He’s always been good enough to score a handful when he’s getting a lot of shots.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
And 12 rebounds
When did something likr this happen last time?
by isum on Dec 27, 2010 11:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
April 7, 2009
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 27, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
MP and Gortat din't do that bad either.
MP went for game high for the Suns (5-8 from range) but got the ball striped on the last posetion. Crazy forth quarter on that game.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
We all loved gil after the spurs win
Let’s not be so quick to judge. He does not know the offense and is RUNNING it. It takes more time then playing the wings.
I know his knees are not the same, but hopefully his issues are more about comfort and knowledge of the offense rather than permamnent injury.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
Exactly
Just like Jameer apparently lost his job after the Spurs game. Jameer is the starter and I like Gil off the bench. He just needs to settle in. You can tell just by his interviews that he is too giddy. Let him settle into Orlando, and get everything straight. SVG can coach him into a great bench player. Also nice to have some easy games coming up. We should be a good run here.
I've never had knees go-just back problems.
If your knees are hurt, does it affect your first step/explosiveness more?
Or does it affect your cutting/ability to change direction more?
Or is it different for every person? Or all of the above?
Just interested in how it changes Arenas game-doesn’t seem to affect his willingness to shoot, so I’m assuming it doesn’t hit the vert as palpably.
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
I'm just saying: What if "being right" and "having the last post" as an anonymous personality on a sports blog aren't really big deals?
I've had trouble with my knees since I was in my teens
It does all of those things. You can’t push off as hard, you can’t turn as hard, you can’t step off either foot as hard – basically the “push” you get out of your knee is weakened. You can’t jump as high either.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Question
With the J-Will situation, wouldn’t it be wise to keep Duhon as our 3rd pg being (knock on wood) Jameer is probably due for an injury?
by Memphissleek on Dec 27, 2010 11:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
My guess is that if JWill does have to retire you'll see Duhon as the 3rd string PG
Unless he is traded for a big and part of the return includes a worse backup PG.
I hope the Magic got some name tags in one of these trades
"a worse backup PG"
Hmmmmmm! Are there any one-armed PG’s?
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Dec 27, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I heard that there was an one-armed drummer back in the late 80s,
maybe Otis can gamble on that too.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Def Leppard . . . only the greatest heavy metal band ever
Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.
I know, but I didn't want to sound old or anything...
not sure about that best ever part though.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Numbers, wasn't there a discussion about arguing here not too long ago?
Just accept that I am right and we can move on. Besides we already dated ourselves by naming every Devo song a while back.
Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.
Yeah, I love Otis.
$4 million/yr 3rd string PG, and a $16 million/yr back-up PG.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Love your 20/20 hindsight.
Didn’t foresee JWill potentially-career-ending injury.
Didn’t foresee Arenas trade when Duhon was signed.
Didn’t foresee Duhon being a dud (though the signs were there in NY).
Arenas and Jameer still prone to missing games/injury risks.
Give Otis a break here. He’s not done with moves.
"...sometimes your eyes lie to you..." ~SVG | I'm on Twitter
by magicfaninTN on Dec 27, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Why would you acquir a $16 million back-up PG...
When you already whiffed on signing a $4 million back-up PG? Are you saying that the Duhon trade was a brilliant move at the time? Because there were a lot of people criticizing that move when it was made, just like people were criticizing a potential Arenas trade even before the season started.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
And with rumors floating around like the Diaw move...
I am scared of any future moves Otis makes. Acquiring an over-paid, no D back-up past his “prime” seems right up Otis’ alley lately.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
I still can’t talk myself into this Arenas trade. I was against acquiring him before the season when the rumor was floated. I was against it when the rumor re-surfaced. I was against it when the trade was made. I’m still against it now.
Even if Arenas turns into a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford quality player off the bench… $111 million!!! That’s the total of his contract. We complained about Rashard’s contract, but at least he was a starter, and his contract was shorter.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
We're not on the hook for all of that $111 million
We’re on the hook for the rest of it from now on, but thats about $35 million less than $111 million, when you factor in the part of this season he was in Washington.
I'm aware of how much we have left. $60 million after this season.
Point is, he was paid that much money by Washington to be a franchise player. He’s on a franchise contract. We’re talking about how excited we are for him to be a 6th man for us…
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
You can't view him by his contract.
The massive amount that he gets paid can’t be changed. It sucks but it is what it is. You have to look at his role on this team going forward, and right now he’s best suited being the 6th man and coming off the bench. Just because he’s the highest paid player on the team doesn’t mean he has to be in the starting lineup. In a perfect world where everyone’s role was related to the amount they got paid, then things would be different. Gil’s not the player he was when the wizards gave him that contract.
You can't view Arenas by his contract. But you can view Otis by it.
Also, people were doing the same thing to Rashard the entire time he was here, even when he was an All-Star (he should be averaging 25/gm, not 18!).
I don’t have nearly as much of a problem with Arenas himself as I do with Otis’ financial irresponsibility in acquiring him when Jameer is Stan’s guy, he’s co-captain of the team, and he’s someone Otis himself gave a decent contract to already.
I don’t understand how anyone can be excited about risking the future of the franchise on a guy who hasn’t been an impact player consistently in over 3 years. I don’t even care if it works, because I don’t believe in risking the franchise on a move that has basically a 10% chance of really working.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Looks like a lot of people are missing the point, which I outlined in a comment near the top.
Gilbert Arenas IS NOT GOOD AT SHOOTING THE BALL. And no amount of learning the offense or shooting less (not going to happen; everyone that liked this trade was excited that the 2nd unit was picking up a free-wheeling shooter anyway) is going to change this fact: when the ball leaves Arenas’s hands, it is overwhelmingly unlikely to end up in the basket. Period.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 27, 2010 1:17 PM EST reply actions
im sorry but
anyone who has put up 60+ points in a game in their career knows how to shoot. Knee problems or not, he will start draining more shots. So he won’t be JJ Redick, but deal, but give the guy atleast 2 practices to be overly critical.
His penetration is more of the reason we got him then his shooting btw.
So he had a great game once. Anthony Bowie had a triple double once.
His shooting has fallen off a cliff since his injuries. It was bad last year. It was bad in Washington this year. It’s bad in Orlando now. Again, learning a new offense has nothing to do with a years-long trend (catastrophe?) in standard shooting , 3 point %, eFG, and TS%.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 27, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
never forget AB's triple double!!!!!!!!!!!
"Evan!
Unban me from the OPP!"...........David Polega
by AB's triple double on Dec 27, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
T-Mac's scored a lot in the past
He can’t shoot for toffee any more either.
Sometimes your body just goes.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
The whole point with Arenas in Orlando
is that this will be a fresh start for him. Give him more time.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
Ahhhh... Evan!
Love the way you just allow this endless back-and-forth to go on and on…. How MANY paragraphs does it take to get a point accross?
I think we all GET IT… and each is entitled to their own opinion. Mine? Let time PROVE Arenas worth to us… a 4-game stretch is to small a sample to make a judgement. But, that’s just me…
You're missing the point.
There is no proof that he will be anywhere close to the value his contract suggests in the past 3+ years. How much time does he need?
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
On the one hand, you're right.
On the OTHER hand, MANNY55 has a LOT of LOVE for CAPS. TOUGH call.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 27, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Here is another fella who is too smart to be bombarded with these nonsensical exchange of views.
Somebody has to intervene and stop this absurd vicious circle. How about if we start right here by deciding not to post at all for 48 hours?
And what proof do you have...
… that he will not? The man just said that we should be patient, and that is the most objective assessment one can make at this point; everything else is just a mere speculation.
The past two years of his career?
That’s pretty good evidence.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I can't quite point my finger at which fallacy this would be...
… but it is a fallacy nonetheless. Two seasons in Washington are two seasons in Washington. He is in Orlando now, and he has played only four games for us so far. I’m just as concerned as everyone else here, but sometimes all the player need is a fresh start. And some time to settle in. Preferably more time than just four games, too.
A fresh start isn't going to repair his left knee.
Gilbert, like a lot of aging or hobbled players, must learn how to play within his limitations. He can still gun it if he wants, but try gunning it at the rim (if you can get there), or spotting up, instead of uncorking 20-footers…
I agree...
… but that does not mean that he will not make that adjustment and potentially justify his contract. My point is that his past two seasons at Washington prove nothing.
They prove that he is bad at shooting the ball.
Atrocious 48.9 TS% this season. Bad 51.1 last season. Only 15 games combined the two seasons before that. Changing teams can affect raw stats like points and assists, but it’s not going to magically make him better at shooting. His body is done, and no amount of patience or “fresh start” is going to change that. He is spent.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 28, 2010 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
Otis is gambling
Lewis had little value given he could no longer effectively play small forward and the Magic have two good young 4s, so Smith is hoping that converting Lewis into Arenas will give us an uptick in isolation scoring and backup playmaking, without costing us anything except money.
Only time will tell if Smith’s gamble pays off.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 28, 2010 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
Only time will tell if Smith’s gamble pays off.
Exactly. Only the time will tell. And that is all I was saying until the whole Washington thing came in the way.
I believe it was a terrible trade, and I have been completely consistent in that opinion.
I might’ve liked to have seen Lewis and Turk on a team together again. I certainly would’ve liked a shorter contract. Otis’s goal was clearly to get his protege onto this team, so in that aspect he knew what he was doing and succeeded. Otherwise, the trade is unexplainable and indefensible.
Otis Smith, what you've just done is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard of. At no point in your rambling, incoherent trades were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having witnessed it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by MoveThoseChains on Dec 28, 2010 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
It's not a fallacy at all
If you’re arguing that there is just as great a lack of evidence that Arenas will not shoot well in Orlando as there is that he will shoot well, you are incorrect. There is two years of Arenas’ play in Washington that indicates he is no longer an efficient shooter; there is absolutely no evidence that he still is.
Arenas may, of course, transcend that evidence and return to being an effective shooter. But you can’t pretend the evidence doesn’t exist and retain credibility.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 28, 2010 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
I wasn't arguing that he will ever be his old self, here in Orlando, or anywhere else for that matter.
I only said that we cannot make any definite statements solely based on his previous two seasons at Washington. At least not just yet. Surely, I should have say that his fiasco at Washington is “hardly an evidence of anything” rather than state that “his past two seasons at Washington prove nothing”, but I was hoping that my point would still come across. Apparently, it didn’t. So, yeah, I failed in that respect.
I don't mind aquiring Arenas...
… over Rashard. Both contracts are equally bad. The only thing I don’t understand is why couldn’t we use Rashard off the bench similarly as we’re using Arenas now. Apparently, the contract size is not an issue. Or at very least, it’s not an issue anymore. And I’m not saying that he would be more productive off the bench than Arenas is (God knows I didn’t like what Rashard was putting on the table), but I think that this is a fair question. Especially considering the fact that we’re in desperate need of size.
We're not sure if Rashard was willing to come off the bench, but Gil has stated that he prefers coming off the bench.
As stupid as it sounds, Rashard has been starting for a long time, and would probably take offense to a demotion on the same team. Gil’s changing scenery, and he knows he needs to biuld himself back up. Gil grew up a Magic fan, and is best friends with Otis, and is thankful for the second chance. Even if it means coming off the bench, Gil is much happier now in Orlando.
I think you're massively underestimating
Lewis’ willingness to sacrifice his own production in the name of the team’s effectiveness.
I suspect van Gundy started Lewis, when he did, because he thought it was the best option.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 28, 2010 2:15 AM EST up reply actions
I've been a Rashard supporter, especially when stating he took a back seat for the sake of the team winning.
I was just speculating that in my opinion a demotion to the bench would crush his confidence. The fact that Gil is coming to a new team, and has never built a seniority (for lack of a better word) here, makes it easier for him to begin his tenure with the magic on the bench.
Rafer alston
lets trade duhon for a back-up and sign Sikp to my lou
Might as well trade Dwight
Alston’s a zero. Might even be a negative.
by eltharion_doa on Dec 27, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Let us bring in Michael Jordan as well.
And Chuck, and Hakeem. Jordan is all about competing now he can do it against Kobe and LeBron.
I want Scott Skiles back : nevermind the Bucks, here's the Magic
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Dennis Scott!
he’s being wasted by NBATV
Excuse me while I whip this out.
by TheGiantSquid on Dec 28, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions

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