Magic obviously maneuvering for CP or Melo..
by dukenilnil on Dec 20, 2010 1:26 PM EST
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Remember these dates: 2/18/11 and 2/24/11
The recent moves by the Magic are not the final moves of the season, that part is obvious. What is the end game then?
Most observers think it's trading for a backup center now. I don't think that would work. The magic have no viable trade bait at this moment (key wording "this moment"). Most observers are saying trade JJ seeing GA and JR both potentially ahead of him at SG. 1 big problem - because the Magic matched JJ's offer, they cannot trade him this year without his permission. By all accounts, he loves Orlando and winning is important. I can only see him approving a trade if it's (a) to start and (b) on a championship caliber team. That pretty much removes him from trade talks.
The key to these deals, however, is Feb 18, 2011. Remember that date. That is the date that the players the Magic just acquired can be retraded in a package deal. The significance of that date is it's just a few days before the 2011 trade deadline. Coincidence? Doubtful. More than likely, the Magic rushed these deals through this past weekend to position themselves to be able to trade some or all of these players again this season before the trade deadline. There is no way the Magic keep JN, JR, GA, and JJ all year, but of all of these, JJ is the one who can say no to a trade.
Likely scenarios: JR and JN (and others Anderson/Bass) for CP and D. Anderson. This gives NO a replacement PG and a true starting SG if they want to resign JR, or significant cap room if they decide to let his contract expire. Then the Magic will be:
C/Duhon;
GA/JJ
Hedo/QR
Bass/Anderson
Howard/D. Anderson
Alternatively: JR and JN for Melo.
The point being, the Magic have positioned themselves to have valuable trade
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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i truly think so
because denver knows melo is leaving and the hornets dont know it now but chris paul is gonna hightail it outta there. I dont think he likes the idea of the nba buying his team and if they relocate them he’s surely gone
…put the crack pipe down.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Remember April 4th!
Taht’s when the Easter Bunny joins the Magic as back up center. The guy has MAJOR hops!
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Dec 20, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Keep telling yourself that
Denver wants good, young talent & bigs, none of which are Jameer and Richardson.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Dec 20, 2010 1:38 PM EST reply actions
While I love all the new activity on this site
You are out of your damn mind bro. You can not blow up a team twice in one season. No way. We are gonna trade for a big maybe, but forget Carmelo and Paul. Accept it and you will be fine. This is a good trade and should help the team. I don’t buy into the whole “it is going to take awhile to jell.” None of the guys, with exception of Gil, have ever been the number 1 on their team. And Gil will still be the number 1, except for the second unit. This is how meetings with the players will go. “Jason, pull the ball in the hoop and try and funnel your man into Bass or Dwight, think you can handle that? Yes? Good. God bless you.” “Turk, eat pizza before the game, run the pick and roll with Dwight, hit Jameer and Jason for open threes. Funnel your man into Bass or Dwight. Win 4th quarters for us again. Think you can handle that? Yes? Here is some pizza.” “Gil. Come off the bench. Pass the ball be a little more efficient. Don’t do anything that is too crazy. Play your man into Bass or Dwight. Think you can handle that? Yes? Good, now go worship your Lil’ Penny doll and have in the City Beautiful.” “You are??? Oh yeah Earl. Uh give Dwight and the boys some Gatorade when they are thirsty. Don’t get in trouble. Have fun on the bench with Duhon. Thanks.” Pretty simple huh??
I don't know why people keep assuming Arenas will be ahead of JJ in the 2 spot.
Arenas is a natural PG who plays much better when the ball is in his hands to create, and that’s a position and skill in which the current reserves are sorely lacking quality play right now. He’ll surely get some time at the 2, but I don’t see why people automatically assume that he’ll be the 1st-off-the-bench reserve for both the PG and SG position. He’ll get much more time at the 1 than at the 2, and I still think Redick will log more minutes than Arenas at SG.
I could certainly be wrong, considering the quality of play we see from Arenas. But I would think that the Magic will look to get “agent zero” level play from him at the PG position well before they will look to him to create scoring at the 2, since they already have a reliable scorer at that position coming off the bench.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 20, 2010 2:04 PM EST reply actions
That could be great for a couple minutes a game.
Give Gil a great spot up shooter. Also, if anyone remembers Kevin McHale, as in Hall of Famer Kevin McHale, came off the bench for the Celtics. Gilbert Arenas can come off the bench. I really like this trade. Our PF rotation is much, much, much better now. The only rotation that got weak was the Center position, but Malik Allen and Dwight can give Dwight a 15 minute break during the game. And Daniel Orton is just going to have to learn the system on the fly. We are getting a lot younger in this trade as well. Even Hedo is younger than everyone else in the trade.
Dwight is good enough to give Dwight a 15 minute break! Brilliant!!
Now if only I had perfected this cloning machine!
Backup Cs.
So many franchise Centers have had to play without solid backups. I’m not sure why Howard gets a pass and “needs” someone above average to give him a rest. This trade puts more pressure on Howard to be a more disiplined player, while also pulling some of the offensive load off him. This, I think, is a good thing. Let Howard focus more on defense and staying out of foul trouble than carrying the offensive load.
Orton and Allen should be able to split 12-15 mins apeice for Howard. The onus is completely on Howard to make sure the Magic don’t need them to play more minutes than that.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 20, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
The center is more important to the Magic because of the 1-in4-out offense.
With Dwiight out and Allen (or Bass) in, that sceme suffers. No other offense depends on the center as much as the Magic, nor can they since they do not have Dwight.
by Both_Teams_Played_ on Dec 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I think he overstated that.
He may end up going that way, but I think once things get going, it’ll end up being more like 5-10 min.
Having Arenas and Hedo on the floor together seems like a bad idea, since they both really need to be included to be effective. Unless they somehow mesh really well – and it becomes the Agent-Hedo Show – it seems like having them both out there will mean at least one of them is going to be a liability.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 20, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Unlikely
But… if Arenas turns out to be a monster & Hedo returns to form, Melo might say “I want to go there”. In which case we could always find someone interested in rebuilding (JR expiring) or looking for a good PG and willing to offer young talent we could trade for Melo. Yeah, those are a ton of ifs.
Hedo and Melo play the same position.
I would think that if the Magic tried for Melo now, either Hedo would be a part of the trade, or Q would be (and Hedo moves to the bench).
I can’t imagine SVG would want Hedo & Arenas coming off the bench together, since they both need the ball to be effective. Hedo in the starting lineup and Arenas coming off the bench mainly at PG makes much more sense.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 20, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Read before posting, please.
In the unlikely stated scenario Nelson would be gone, Arenas starting, and Turk coming off the bench. Turk and his contract are untradable, and Denver wouldn’t take Q.
Uh, I did read.
“Unlikely
But… if Arenas turns out to be a monster & Hedo returns to form, Melo might say "I want to go there". In which case we could always find someone interested in rebuilding (JR expiring) or looking for a good PG and willing to offer young talent we could trade for Melo. Yeah, those are a ton of ifs."
No where in there do you address the issue of Hedo, Melo, and Q all playing the same position – and how it would be resolved. You imply that Nelson could be involved in the trade, but you don’t address the fact that in that scenario the Magic would again end up with an under performing backup PG (Duhon).
But really…it’s not going to happen, so it’s really not worth wasting any more time talking about.
::shrug::
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Dec 20, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Uhhhhhhhh...
What now?
Obviously, this trade has made it very difficult for us to know exactly what is going on.
Still, I’m pretty sure that we’re not getting Melo or CP3.
Also
You do not have to have the best players at their position. You need a team that fits. And I think everything fits. Turk will give Pierce problems like he did before due to his length. Either way we are doing looking for a blockbuster trade. Hopefully a piece for Anthony Randolph to shore up the center position.
Also, JJ would totally 'ok' a trade if it means he starts or plays starters minutes.
http://borntohustleroses.blogspot.com/
Seems crazy, but I stand by the analysis
It seems most think I’m off my rocker. I agree it would be seemingly unprecendeted for a contending team to make that many big trades in one year. Nevertheless, none of the alternatives others mentioned here and elsewhere are viable and one can’t realistically expect the roster to stay as is, way too many guards/sf types w/ approximate salaries (from memory)
Current depth chart options:
PG: Nelson (8), GA (18), JWill (1), Duhon (4) or Nelson, Jwill, Duhon
SG: JRich (15), JJ (7) or Jrich, GA, JJ
SF: Hedo (10); Q Rich (2.5)
PF: Bass, Anderson
C: Dwight, Allen
Avg min. of top perimeter players: Nelson (30); GA (35); Jrich (32); JJ (24) = 121 (97 w/o JJ)
Total minutes available at PG/SG = 96
Thus, even before adding in JJ, the Magic are over the available minutes for PG/SG. That doesn’t even count JWill or Duhon as getting any minutes either. I don’t see Nelson, GA, or JRich (in a contract year), being happy taking only 25 minutes or less a game.
The fan says, play them the usual amount and just keep JJ, Jwill, and Duhon as insurance policies. One, good luck with chemistry that way. Second, are you going to give the Magic $12 million to not play JJ, Jwill, and Duhon?
The logical conclusion is, one of the top 4 players (in addition to Duhon or Jwill) needs to be moved. As stated before, JJ can veto any trade, so good luck with that unless it’s to a contending team. Plus, if you try to trade JJ, then you better be sure you can resign Jrich but that would be very expensive.
That leaves trading Nelson, Jrich, or GA. By all accounts, no one but the Magic want GA. That leaves trading Nelson or Jrich. Jrich has the most trade value being in the last year of a contract, so is the logical trade piece.
But why trade for Jrich, if you are just going to trade him straight up in a 1 player deal? you don’t, you repackage him in a multiplayer deal done the road. His contract is more valuable than VC on the trade market because it’s a true expiring deal.
Un. Likely.
Otis Smith seems convinced Arenas is comparable to CP3 or Melo, capable of returning to his former glory.
If Otis Smith manages to trade for CP3 or Carmelo using some combination of JR, JN, Anderson, and Bass
I will . . . ah, shoot, I am all out of ridiculous gestures that I could offer to make that I will never actually have to complete.
Now taking suggestions for stupid stuff that I could do if either of these players end up in Orlando (without DeVos opening up the checkbook to an extent that would make the Yankees blush.)
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
only one word i can say that can describe this
Delusional. People get it threw deep deep deep deep deep into the back of ur cerebellum, NO is not going to trade Chris Paul, and Denver is not going to trade Carmelo to a team he does not want to be in that would warrent them young players with minimal contracts and draft picks, oh and lets also not forget to mention a team that Carmelo himself says he would want to go to, does he want to go to Orlando maayyyyyyyyybbbeeeee does Orlando have the chips to get him NO!
Stop focusing on the improbable and focus on the most realistic trades, that way you dont set urself up for anger when you get a good trade that isnt glorified with a player that we wouldnt get in the first place.
According to Fanhouse.com and hoopshype.com the Magic are looking into eighter Tony Battie ewwwwwww or Ronny Turiaf and they have also been linked into wanting to trade Anthony Randolph.
I would love to see them trade Duhon (of which NY stated they are in need of a back up point guard for Raymond Felton) and Q RIch (to make salary work of course) and possible some picks for Ronny Turiaf and Anthony Randolph
for those of you not familiar with Anthony Randolph i have loved him since his rookie season in Gs here is a vid for you to drool over imagining him in Orlando blue
something like this is much more realistic than a trace for cp3......i have stated previously that i do not believe smith is done dealing.....i see another trade before a free agent signing
Just one mans opinion...
"We will pick 2 corners within the first 4 rounds" - 2009
"We will have 4 new linebackers via FA and the draft" - 2010
by MagicDolphin on Dec 22, 2010 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
...lol what?
Stop day dreaming, it’s not gonna happen. At this point we just need someone who can shadow Dwight Howard, so yes, more trades will happen, but as far as superstar trades go, that’s all done for us: Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu and Gilbert Arenas.
Seems crazy
But hey, who thought we were going to trade to get Hedo back? Possible but don’t hold your breath on it
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