For Now, Brandon Bass' Jump-Shooting Helping the Orlando Magic
by Evan Dunlap on Dec 2, 2010 9:00 AM EST
in Analysis
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PrintThrough the Orlando Magic's first 18 games, backup power forward Brandon Bass has provided fairly consistent scoring to go with improved rebounding and defense. Now in his sixth season, Bass is averaging career highs in minutes (20.7), scoring (9.7), and rebounding (5), and he's scored at least 7 points 13 times. On the team, only Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, and Rashard Lewis own higher scoring averages to date, and none is scoring more efficiently than Bass, as he leads the team with a 60.2 True Shooting mark.
A potential problem with Bass, though, is his reliance on the two-point jumper to create offense. Synergy Sports Technology data show him converting 33 of his 62 two-point jumpers, good for an elite rate of 53.2 percent. But subtract the two-point jumper from his arsenal this season, and he's shooting 28-of-56, or 50 percent. In other words, if he's not giving you those two-point jumpers, he's merely an average offensive player at best, as he doesn't finish well around the rim and has yet to develop a back-to-the-basket game.
"I practice the same shot every day, and I shoot a lot of 'em," Bass told the media in the Magic's locker room following their impressive win over the Miami Heat last week, in which he poured in 18 points on 9-of-12 shooting. And indeed, after each of the few practices I've attended since Orlando signed Bass last summer, Bass has stayed late to go through shooting drills with Magic assistant coaches. Every time, he goes through the same slow, unorthodox motion, with his guide hand atop the ball. And, though I haven't officially kept track, I'd estimate he converts upward of 80 percent of them in the near-empty gym.
Fortunately, Bass has worked hard in other areas to make it virtually impossible for coach Stan Van Gundy to leave him off the floor, so a regression on his jump-shooting percentages probably won't affect his standing in the rotation too much. The real question is how long Bass can maintain that torrid percentage on what is, for most players, the least efficient shot attempt of any kind.
There's good news to be found, though: in the 2007/08 season, with the Dallas Mavericks, Bass shot 67-of-122 (54.9 percent) on short jumpers and 44-of-86 (51.2 percent) on medium ones, so he's set a great precedent for himself with regard to converting efficiently over the course of a whole season. Additionally, his improvement in foul-drawing means he can still do damage offensively just by throwing his weight around in the paint area, looking for contact; 17.9 percent of his possessions have ended in a free-throw attempt, according to Synergy.
Nonetheless, his jump-shooting so far has proven key in the second-unit's ability to score, with Mickael Pietrus' 44.6 percent showing from beyond the arc the only other real offensive threat until J.J. Redick proves he's broken his horrid slump. If Bass' jumpers suddenly start drawing iron, Orlando could find itself in a spot of bother.
We should note too that Bass has a pretty singular offensive game: rarely does a volume scorer (one who averages 16 points or better per 36 minutes, for our purposes) reach the 60 percent True Shooting plateau without having the three-ball in his arsenal, as this list demonstrates.
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Is this place anti bass or something?
Bass can score with his back to the basket. He can hit the turnaround j. He also gets putback points off rebounds. The shot he is making is gold for teams like the magic. He is our version of Horace grant, who had the same shot in his arsenal and took it multiple times a game. I don’t understand why you would write an article like this after Bass has a great night once again off the bench. Is it a pride thing because you claimed tha Anderson was better even though he clearly is not? I am sorry, but this site is too good for petty stuff like that.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
I didn't get that from the writeup.
Perhaps there were some implied stats that I didn’t see, but all I saw was that he’s shooting at an elite rate of 53.2 % now but that would drop to an average rate of 50% if you take out his jumpers. It’s not clear to me how 53.2% can be elite but 50% is inefficient – that’s a pretty small difference, especially when you factor in the fact that they’re pretty much ALL 2-pointers. You also mentioned that he doesn’t finish at the rim and doesn’t have an effective back-to-the-basket game, but that’s a pretty subjective assertion (and, in this article, unsupported) so it’s hard to describe that as a “demonstration” of his ineffectiveness.
It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you or wanting to make this a “Leave Brandon Bass ALONE!!” kind of thing, it’s just that I don’t get out of the writeup what you seemed to want it to say. I paid attention, and I re-read the article several times… but no, I don’t see that you’ve demonstrated his offensive inefficiency. Asserted, yes. Demonstrated? Not very clearly. Maybe I’m stupid. Maybe the article doesn’t get its point across as well as we’d all like. Perhaps Bass isn’t really all that inefficient. I don’t claim to know. I sure am glad he’s been playing as well as he has, lately.
by loxodonta tuscaloosa on Dec 2, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
No, it isn't.
53.2% x 2 points is 1.064 points per possession.
50% x 2 points is 1 points per possession.
That’s a difference of 0.064 points per possession. Not 0.64 (or 0.62). You might want to switch calculators.
by loxodonta tuscaloosa on Dec 2, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not having any statistical information about the distribution of shooting percentages, I do not have any way to determine whether that is subjectively “elite” or “inefficient” as compared to league averages. So it may well be that 53.2% is elite and 50% is pedestrian – all I’m saying is that wasn’t obvious from what you wrote.
by loxodonta tuscaloosa on Dec 2, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
.06points per position sounds way more correct for a 3% difference.
The question is whether or not this undermines the premise of the article.
In my opinion even before re-thinking that number, 50% shooting when not taking open jumpers or foul shots is very very valuable. 50% 1 on1 basketball is basically what melo does.
0.064 ppp is correct; I may not know as much about (e.g.) the Princeton offense as I should to be able to talk intelligently about it, but math is my living.
Just for kicks, I decided to check the current stats for shooting percentages at basketball-reference.com . The total range covers from 1.000 (2 guys with four attempts between ‘em, all season) to 0.000 (bottom 18, about half of whom haven’t attempted a shot yet). However, the majority of players are clustered between 25% and 65% or so, with a median (not mean) value of 0.443 – half the players in the league shoot better than 4.3%, half shoot worse.
53.2% shooting would tie him with Grant Hill for 53rd in the league, good enough for 87th percentile which means 87% of the league shoots worse than the 53.2% of Bass. The 50% mark would rank him tied for 88th (79th percentile), which is still pretty good relative to the rest of the league. Notably, basketball-reference.com has BB at 51.3% currently, 75th place out of 415, or 82nd percentile.
Now, as I’ve mentioned, the word “elite” seems rather subjective. Is being in the top 13% elite? Top 18%? Top 21% I have to be honest, none of those sound average or pedestrian to me. Nor do they sound elite.
I wish I’d been able to do the same stats with the a minimum number of shots… hey, they’ll let me download in .csv! So much for getting anything done at work today…
by loxodonta tuscaloosa on Dec 2, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think Bass has been doing a hell of a job and this article did seem to come out of nowhere
Why do a whole write up about how bad a player COULD BE, why not write about how well he is doing or wit till your wonderful day when he prooves inefficient
Yeah, it would've been a cool article if it weren't for the "for now..."
Like, Bass sucks, but for now he’s doing a decent job… but it’s only a matter of time ’til he starts sucking again, be prepared for that.
That’s not really cool for a good guy, for a guy that’s helping the team and for someone that should be lauded for his current play.
I agree, that's exactly how I felt.
I’m a Ryan Anderson fan myself, having gone to Cal with him, but this article just had the wrong tone.
I’ve actually see this type of writing from both Evan and Eddy (on his site) where they’ll talk about Bass’s achievements this season, but always prephrase them with “for now” or “he hasn’t regressed… yet” type warnings.
I don’t understand it really. I had my own doubts for sure, but he’s proven that he’s put in the work this offseason, wants to get better, and most importantly, has been showing his results on the floor and helping the Magic win games.
When the big fella was whistled for his fourth personal foul midway through the third quarter, Stan Van Gundy left Clark Kent alone. And in a phone booth measuring 94 feet across, Dwight Howard used that vote of confidence to transform into his alter ego. - Chris Sheridan
by thermodynamic on Dec 2, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I mean it would be cool if the guy was lazy and didn't give a damn
Then it’s OK to say “for now” since he doesn’t give a damn and he’s just lucky to get the ball in the basket, being only a matter of time until his laziness and bad attitude take over again.
But that’s not the case.
For me, the "for now" has to do with the offensive efficiency
of the team not with Bass’ effort.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
.064 pp possession is still significant.
It is approx the difference between the LA Lakers (at 111.1 offensive efficiency and #1 in the stat and 104.7, which is the #13 Houston Rockets)
Going from 53.2% shooting to 50% shooting is enough to drop you from 44th to 79th, out of 358 shooters with more than 10 shots on the year. That’s significant, yes, but not hugely so. It’s still well above the league average of 44.8% in either case, by about one standard deviation (SDev=8.1% shooting).
by loxodonta tuscaloosa on Dec 2, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
So basically, check out your door loxodonta
And you better start benching more than 250 soon, OR ELSE
By the way, how much do you squat David, and how heavy are you (seriously now)?
I’m 6’2 270 and most closely resemble a cinder block. I’m not lean and mean or anything, but I’m solid everywhere.
If you’re that interested my facebook is facebook.com/polega
And there’s the most recent picture of me~ though I keep the beard more under control these days. Would you also like to know other things that don’t mater about my personal life like whether or not my GF is attractive or a picture of me holding this baby?
I don’t mind, I’ve never had anything to hide- I just don’t see what it has to do with the discussion.
Well I'm into dunking and squatting and training and all that
So that’s the reason I was wondering about your squat. You still haven’t answered it though :P
That's very kind of you
but not gonna happen. We may like the same team, but frankly your “fostering discussion” grates on my nerves pretty fast. You might have noticed that I’m not the only one… and you probably don’t care, I know. That’s unfortunate. Oh, well, can’t like everybody!
by loxodonta tuscaloosa on Dec 2, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeh its a reoccurring theme.
People generally dislike me until they can actually buy the Idea that I’m attempting to have rationality prevail- and even then they’d rather keep contested points to a minimum.
I’ve never shied away from discussion though, and its not something I aim to change .
Kobayashi never shied away from a hot dog, either. Are you in a contest?
by loxodonta tuscaloosa on Dec 2, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
60% ts is elite scoring but 50% when he’s not open isn’t?
thats ludicrous. 100 per 100 when not taking open shots is reliable enough to maintain a lead, and a percentage I wouldn’t expect out of anyone on this team besides howard, carter, and Jameer- who all happen to be starters.
In other words- getting 50% shooting from a covered player is a blessing and nothing you should sound gloomy over.
by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
50% TS is terrible.
And you know what? If Bass (or anybody) is getting 50% shots when he’s not open, you shouldn’t be praising him for doing a dumb thing less disastrously than he might. You should go after him for doing a dumb thing. Find the open man, already.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
End of shot clock?
and our second string likes to eat poop often.
You have to take into account when its occurring, and also whether its done to to protect a lead. Besides, he will never be 50% ts, his free throw shooting is too good. I’m saying 50% fg while while covered. This is valuable and worth using when the situation calls for it- like when we’re trying to maintain a lead or at the end of the shot clock- both are situations SVG uses Bass in so that ought to add some credence to what I"m saying.
I'd agree if that's what was happening.
We’ve all seen Bass chuck contested twos with plenty of time left on the clock. Those have been going in at a rate that, thus far, hasn’t hurt us much. But that doesn’t make them smart plays. And there’s no guarantee they’ll keep going in that that elevated rate.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Show me?
Sight a stat?
We’re supposed to just take what you say at face value? Last time you said this exact same thing about Melo, we found out he was shooting 25% of his shots at the end of the shot clock.
There is a reason behind this- offense try to run a play before they set someone up in isolation, which is the only case Brandon Bass isn’t taking open jump shots(and offensive put backs which is another issue.)
Wait a minute.
Did you just cite that time you were wrong about Anthony as evidence that you’re right about Bass?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Taking 25% of your shots in the last 5 seconds was me being right about Anthony- he is taking 1/4 of his shots with less than 5 seconds on the clock.
Assuming forcing up the shot removes 50% of its ability to go in, thats a 12% decreade in fg%. So a 55% shooter becomes a 43% shooter and so on.
Just because you didn’t understand I was right when Evan cited the stat showing it, doesn’t mean I was wrong.
Doesn't the fact that Carmelo takes 25% of his shots with less than 5 seconds left mean
That he takes 75% of his shots with more than five seconds left? I’m pretty sure that doesn’t support your side of the argument.
I get your point, but...
Evan, I understand where you’re going with this one, and that it’s not a put down on Bass, but a fairly objective assessment of his game and his limitations. But I must digress on one point: the strategic value of the two-pointer.
From a strictly efficiency point of view, the 3-pointer is great; it adds 1/3 more scoring for each shot attempt at a distance of 20 -22 feet. That is… IF the shots are falling. If the shots are falling it builds momentum quickly and dramatically. If your team is behind, this IS the shot that will bring you back faster.
Three point shooting is streaky, prone to long droughts. And the Magic are a great example of this problem. If the team is ahead, what you need is to KEEP THE LEAD. You need consistency in scoring, NOT bulk. Which is more accurate, a 15-footer, or a 22-footer? A good, consistent 15-foot shooter is more desirable than a hot/cold 22-foot one.
In the past; how many games did the Magic lost because we could NOT buy a bucket of ANY sort while the other team was mounting a great comeback? You don’t have to look too far back; just remember the game with Utah.
In a game like that one, and from a strategic point of view, I much prefer a Brandon Bass to a Rashard Lewis all night long! Anyone can have a bad game or two, and Bass WILL go through them too! But I sincerely doubt he’ll have 7-8 game droughts, like Lewis, or Redick regularly go through.
It’s like this: When Lewis or Redick shoot a trey; my heart misses a beat and I make and INSTANT prayer…
When Bass takes his shot, I NEVER flinch. And THAT, my friend, is what I call, Money in the Bank!
by manny55 on Dec 2, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
From a strategic point of view, you would be wrong to take Brandon Bass over Rashard Lewis.
Rashard is already up to his career average in 3pointers this season, after his horrific slump to start. JJ has shot it significantly better in the last 6 games or so.
Read betwen lines...
Of course, BOTH are back to their career averages… and that’s GREAT for the Team. I totally embrace this. We all want our Team to perform up to our potential…
Read again… I did NOT say I’d take Bass over Lewis at ANY given time, on ANY given night, or even season. What I said was I’d take Bass over Lewis on THAT specific strategic situation: Magic AHEAD; other team making a comeback.
Hey there!
You just stole my analysis!
You use semi-efficient 1 on 1 scorers to protect a lead because of they are consistently semi-efficient. For Bass, he’s in with the second unit, and any option besides him is nearly twice as horrific in any make your own shot type of way.
Sure Redick can shoot, but that does nothing unless his man was already off rotation.
There you go!
I think it’s in everybody’s mind too!
The thing is Bass seems to have learned ‘the Reddick lesson", that is, HOW to be a CONTRIBUTOR to the Team effort, even when the shots are NOT falling… can’t wait for Anderson to do the same!
That’s what I call the intangibles in sports; something that can’t quantified or explained by sheer numbers and statistics alone. Sports is FILLED with just such intangibles. It’s why the Mets beat the Orioles in ’69; how the Jets beat the heavily favored Colts; and on and on…
It’s why the Magic SHOULD have beat the Lakers in 2009, except that Van Gundy threw in an intangible of his own (you NEVER do that); he benched his point guard, flawed but fully integrated in a well-oiled machine, and added an unknown variable (an injured Nelson) into a volatile situation… and lost!
I forgot...
It’s the difference between THEORY and REALITY; paper and fact.
By the way; it’s also the reason WHY Miami will NOT win the NBA Championship this year.
I thought the reason Miami wouldn't win was because they have no frontcourt presence, no PG and no outside shooting?
Because all of that can be seen just fine on paper.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Bass' play this year is what was missing against Boston last year
and why we lost that series. Magic playing the way they are playing RIGHT NOW will not lose to Boston RIGHT NOW in a 7 game series. Let’s hope this holds up in the playoffs.
www.southsyde.com
Yep.
When Bass played against Boston last playoffs, he did look missing. Let’s hope he doesn’t go back to that.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
There was no offensive set that have our 4 a mid range jumper.
Surely you understand why that would have an effect on Bass’ presence.
I was talking more about his crappy rebounding and defense last year than anything else.
Thanks for changing the subject, though.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
It’s not changing the subject if you didn’t mention it in the first place. In fact its you I’d levy with that charge since realizing Bass efficiency may not actually be an effect of his offensive abilities but an effect of the offense ruins the basis of every argument you’ve made about bass improvement.
But tomato tomahto right?
I gotta say I don't get this post either...
Too much math for me.
I think Bass has been stellar, and whatever modern NBA analysts say about midrange Js…I’ll take Bass shooting that shot all day.
It does seem kinda like a dig on Bass when he's currently playing well
I could see posting this when he’s in a slump or not producing.
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Dec 2, 2010 9:50 AM EST reply actions
Ben or Evan
You very often come off unprofessional and snide in the comments sections of your articles. You drown your blog and arguments in stats so much I think you would be better off covering baseball (it partially blinds and distorts your view of the NBA game).
For this reason I feel Orlandomagicdaily.com is an extremely better site for Magic fans, as it’s an easier read, and makes more sense to the common fan of the game. I read both OPP and OMD, however the differences are night and day, especially in your maturity level on replies. However, just judging from your avatar pic, you don’t seem to come off as one of the more socially savvy individuals around and that could be one reason for your comments.
Go Magic! And I’ll probably be banned for this post.
www.southsyde.com
Judging from someone's avatar is a good way to figure out their social capacity. You must be a freaking genius with your 1980s video game picture.
Given what he has to deal with with the less intelligent commentors on this site, he shows incredible restraint.
So when you say “makes more sense to the common fan of the game”, do you mean “regurgitates myths about basketball that the statistics don’t actually reflect”? Or do you mean “avoids in-depth critical analysis entirely”?
I mean, if you’ve got a problem with people talking about what actually happens on the court, there are plenty of newspapers out there you might like.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Mark Jackson and Reggie Miller make more sense to the common fan too.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
your comment is so socially savvy that I feel bad for you
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Well, people do seem to be really into Orlandomagicdaily
I Count 24 posts on their main page for 18 articles. Yep, it must be compelling, thought-provoking reading to inspire such discussion. I’m surprised that anyone bothers to come to this site at all, when they are averaging .75 posts per article!
You’re right. It is incredibly fantastic. Somebody notify Halberstram-we have the next voice in sports journalism just a click away.
(My apologies to anyone who actually writes for Orlandomagicdaily, but if you don’t think gatorboi352’s post was asking for that level of sarcasm, you weren’t paying attention.)
"I'm a Rashard Lewis Apologist."
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
Well, that's not fair.
24 comments on 18 articles is easily 1.25 per.
(Added bonus: no David Polega. Why, that man could write 24 posts on one article. Probably one article about a talking fish or some such nonsense.)
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
OHH EM EFF GEE
LOLZ
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
ORL★NDO M★GIC
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Dec 2, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
and never leave the last word, cause we all know how important that is
I can’t say I don’t admire your patience there
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Eh.
It’s either do this or work. And while work has its advantages, it doesn’t have the excitement of seeing a guy try to incorporate clearly insane statements into his world view in real time. Think of it this way: this guy is flailing, he’s talking hiumself into things, and now he’s going to have to live by some of this stuff for years.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
You enjoy watching yourself struggle that much?
Because you don’t have a single standing argument Anderson belongs in your mouth?
You’re interpretation as always has no basis in reality, I’m quite happily explaining the position I’ve maintained the entire time. For me its easy, because I don’t make any absolute statements. Thats what you’re in the business of.
I think this write-up is off the mark.
There is more than enough data to give assurances that Bass’ jump-shooting averages will hold up. Additionally, he is pretty active in attacking the rim and creating fouls. Moreover, he shoots his free throws at an impressively high rate, which the write-up left off.
Yep it sure left it off. Oh wait I found it right here.
“Additionally, his improvement in foul-drawing means he can still do damage offensively just by throwing his weight around in the paint area, looking for contact; 17.9 percent of his possessions have ended in a free-throw attempt, according to Synergy.”
I think matt was referring to his actual free throw shooting percentage.
but could be wrong.
by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I see that. I see "free throw rate" and I don't think about %. Rate, to me, is about how frequently they are attempted, not converted.
He is at 88.3% so far this season, which is exceptional.
I agree, was just assuming that must have been his intention.
by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
All I'm saying is that if he stops making jumpers and stops drawing fouls--which he did for a bit two weeks ago--he's not doing anything on offense. That's it!
Anyone claiming bitterness about Bass can save it, too.
Whats wrong with converting 50% when not getting fouled and shooting open jumpers?
That will carry an offense through a dry spell no problem. Particularly since he only does that primarily when he’s in with back ups.
You see a negative there, I don’t.
Of course if any player stopped doing what they do best they’d be worse, but I still think you’re over playing how bad it is to score at a 50% rate when not taking open jump shots or drawing fouls.
by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
An eFG% of .500 is OK, but not elite. That’s Indiana Pacers or Memphis Grizzlies territory. It’s solid, but not elite. It’s a good thing that he’s shooting jumpers well at this point, but that is the only thing he does better than average on offense. If he starts doing it poorly, he will switch from an offensive asset to an offensive liability. It’s not a certain thing that will happen, but like Evan pointed out, it’s pretty much unheard of for a midrange jump shooter to maintain that sort of efficiency. Maybe Bass will be the first to do it, but it’s definitely something to keep an eye on as a potential weakness.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I’m not saying its a primary option or anything, just that it can be used to protect leads while the bench is in. If while your starters are out, you can maintain 50% eFG, you’re winning the game in most cases. There is value in being able to score at a 50% rate while being covered, it makes you a scoring option usable to protect leads when the offense can’t score.
by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Not trying to backtrack, but I misread – it should be 50% TS, since the shooting percentages weren’t taking into account his foul rate (oops). Looking at the Magic, the only player under a 50% TS is Duhon. Even the slumping Redick is at 50.6%.
Evan’s also wrong that Bass is leading the team at 60.2% TS – Malik Allen is leading at 66.7%. Obviously, he is not getting enough floor time, and Howard should be benched for this offensive dynamo. [/sarcasm]
Honor is no substitute for victory.
only 1 person said anything close to you hating Bass.
The rest has been analyzing what you actually said, and honestly wondering how you consider that side of the argument.
by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Ben whoops.. I mean Evan has a point
But without trumpeting the Bass horn too much, I think the other role players aren’t getting the same praise/scrutiny as he does. How about something on Q-Rich? or how horrible Gortat has been playing.
I’m just taking some simple logic here: because he’s sinking the jumpshot so well, maybe he doesn’t feel a need to bang down low?
Also he often gets the ball outside of the paint, meaning he’s in a triple threat position – pass, put it on the floor or shoot it. I’ve noticed defenders have been sagging off him so he’s making them pay.
Actually, Gortat’s only playing poorly compared to the 2008-09 season. Looking at the last three seasons:
Stat: 08-09/09-10/10-11
TS: .578/.563/.558
eFG: .570/.533/.526
ORB: 14.0/11.5/13.2
DRB: 26.3/24.3/23.6
TRB: 20.3/18.1/18.6
AST: 2.9/2.4/5.6
BLK: 4.8/4.8/4.0
TOV: 10.8/15.0/15.9
Gortat’s not shooting quite as well as last season, and his block rate’s down a smidgen, turnovers are up a smidgen, but he’s rebounding better and dishing assists more than twice as often. I think we’re disappointed because we thought his decline last season was due to fatigue, but it’s entirely possible the 08-09 season was a fluke instead.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I didn't intend for you to get angry
Honestly, you are coming off as a guy who expects to make posts and not be questioned about them. I am sorry, but that is not how it works anymore. I read your post clearly and determined that i disagreed and posted my thoughts. You are coming off as unprofessional because you are taking this too personal. Newsflash, lots of people here know about magic basketball besides just you. You are wrong about Bass and he will continue to prove that on the floor, regardless of what mathematical equation you come up with,
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
And i don't think you hate bass
I just think you are still trying to hold onto your old post that declared Anderson as the guy when he clearly is not.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
"Is this place anti bass or something?"
Was the first thing you wrote.
Sorry for him assuming you thought what you wrote.
/sarcasm.
by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Brandon Bass is helping the Magic win games.
I’m satisfied with that. He’s only a bench player! Our team doesn’t live and die by what Brandon Bass does.
On the flip…Evan has done a good job of breaking down—with evidence—how Bass is helping and why we should take it with a grain of salt.
by Hoop Dreams on Dec 2, 2010 11:16 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
I don’t understand why you take something Bass has done his entire career at the same rate with a grain of salt.
He was brought to Orlando as a knockdown mid range shooter, and that didn’t change when he was on the bench.
Really I have to wonder what Bass needs to do in for it not to be taken with a grain of salt- because apparently doing what he’s done his entire career does not meet the salinity standards of some people? /shrug
His current numbers are WELL above his career numbers.
He’s making jumpers at an unusually high rate, and he’s getting to the line more often. 17 games isn’t enough to suggest that this is a permanent change. Maybe it is — I hope it is. But if not, Bass is going to go back to his career pace of 55-56% TS, which is worse than the team average. And if that happens, we need to ask ourselves about his usage.
Of course, maybe it won’t happen. I hope it doesn’t.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I would be willing to bet
His jump shot % has remained the same.
The difference in Dallas or last year here was how he offense was having him operate. In dallas they were using him almost strictly as an on the block scorer and last year how many times did you see the offense give Bass anything even near a mid rang jumper within the design of the play?
Again, he’s been a knock down jump shooter his entire career. It is the reason the Magic signed him for pete’s sake. You will argue with anything.
You would lose your bet
In ‘08-09 with Dallas, he shot 59% on jumpshots outside the paint, rather than the 77% he’s shooting now, with an eFG% of .445.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
*sigh* Ignore the first part of that
59% of his shots were jumpshots, with an eFG% of .445. The stat block I was reading was aligned weird.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Wait so…
well nvm, I think you took my what I was saying incorrectly. I’m saying his makes on jump shots would be the same. The number of shots outside the paint while interesting information, isn’t what I was getting at.
We signed because he was a good mid range shooter, not he suddenly became one, thats the meat of it.
I dug a bit more, and managed to find the out-of-paint jump-shooting eFG% for all six years he’s been in the league:
05-06: .250
06-07: .208
07-08: .487
08-09: .445
09-10: .438
10-11: .481
Honor is no substitute for victory.
He is going to get these open looks for a long time
Why? You can not guard everything. This same thing happened with the 95 team. Dennis was a massive 3point threat. Penny and Anderson were also stretching the floor. The pick and roll down low to Shaquille was a huge threat also. Currently teams want to single cover Dwight and hug the perimeter (if they have the talent to). This is going to give Bass options off the pick and roll. If they take away his open shot, they are giving up something else, which is usually a real easy Jameer drive or pull up J. Giving Bass this shot is still the best option for opposing teams. Unfortunately for them, he is one of the best at making them and Mark Cuban said that also a few years back.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
by DOT COM on Dec 2, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
On the money...
There’s an allergy to two point jump shots around here. I get it, but let’s not put blinders on.
Our team is built on the 3-ball and Dwight’s dunks inside. Good strategy; these are the most efficient shots in basketball.
But what are we supposed to do when teams take those shots away?
You take what the defense gives, which is occasionally a long two. I’m glad we have a guy who is crazy good at those—even if it’s traditionally a low-percentage shot.
Things happen in the flow of the game, man. We need wrinkles to keep defenses on their toes.
He hit on my mom.
That’s why I’ll always hate him
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
ORL★NDO M★GIC
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Dec 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
But he hit on my girlfriend . . . uh-oh . . .
(I kid.)
"I'm a Rashard Lewis Apologist."
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
What evidence do you need?
Look at the bench and minutes Anderson has played. The post was preseason and stating that anderson was more effective in the lineup than Bass. Am I the only one who remembers this?
David you need to relax and understand that hating bass and rooting for anderson over bass are 2 different things.m
I stand by the fact that this team has desperatley needed a PF who can knock down the midrange shot. It is a shot that is going to be there night after night. I personally do not take it with a grain of salt.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
Relax?
I just quoted what you said and quipped that generally people perceive you as thinking what you write.
You’re response to that has nothing to do with that. You said, I don’t think you hate bass. But you’re subject line was asking if this blog was Anti-bass and went on to say he’s just trying to take his foot out of his mouth over Anderson. Giving a reason for Brandon Bass hate is still assuming he’s anti bass. And is the reason I quoted you- though I didn’t think quoting you and explaining exactly what you typed would require an extra post from me.
Oh ok i see now
You are the replymaster of this site. You will debate about anything just to have the last word. Your free time and strong OCD will not allow you to let an opportunity pass. I will now allow you to have the last word so you can recover from that ridiculously wordy and confusing post you made to me previously.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
He's a debate state champ, duhI
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
ORL★NDO M★GIC
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Dec 2, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
You could just admit you’re wrong and save the overtures.
My free time includes being a stay at home dad which allows me plenty of time to post during the day- though I’m not sure why having free time would ever be considered a bad thing anyway.
What do I need to admit that I am wrong about again ?
I will be happy to give you that E win you are so desperately yearning for (while changing diapers) if you could be more specific.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
I am an Anderson-kind-of-guy...
and even I have to admit that right NOW, Bass is the go-to-guy when you NEED a bucket… ANY bucket! (I still think Anderson is the future Lewis sub). Has anybody noticed how other teams start to double on him when he posts up? That’s a whole new level of respect, to me!
But Anderson will have to LEARN the JJ lesson, go through the same hell he went through. He’s going to get in shape, work on his shotcomings and BE READY to ba called upon at any given time. He HAS to be an instant producer in one way or another, just like JJ. That’s how Anderson will EARN his way back into the rotation.
Yeah, I'd like to think that JJ can be a good example for Ryan.
Although Ryan is more naturally gifted than JJ is, I think. But we already picked up his option, making it clear to him we see him as part of the future, just like we did with JJ. Ryan still played great basketball on a per-minute basis… he just had a bad short stretch there before falling out of the rotation. With the way Bass was playing (and Pietrus, who was in Ryan’s spot before that), it was a very short leash for Ryan. I do also believe he will be the future starter at PF though, barring any unforeseen player movement developments.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
All I needed was that third 'graph from the bottom.
With consistent minutes and opportunities, he’s performing exactly as his history would predict. Whether he regresses certainly remains to be scene; I guess my confusion with the piece is is this about Bass’s shot or the supposed inefficiency of the shot in general…
I really love what Bass brings to the team.
It really is no secret that the Magic do not like to use long 2-point jumpers, even 2k11 mentions it. So when planning to play them, teams will focus on limiting the 3 and the paint. We then have to opportunity to throw a changeup and put a guy out there who excels at shooting a face up 18 foot shot. Bass is just another piece teams have to adapt their defense for. In my opinion, Anderson is too much like we already have.
Just to be clear, I am probably being sarcastic.
Yep -- that's strategy.
Teams expect us to just take good shots. But if we willingly take bad shots, they won’t know HOW to react.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Call me crazy...
but i’ll take Bass shooting a wide open 18 footer over Anderson shooting a wide open three pointer
Just to be clear, I am probably being sarcastic.
You're crazy.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
Not right now! If Anderson can rebound from his slump... who knows
Just to be clear, I am probably being sarcastic.
Anderson will shoot at least 40% with an open 3.
Bass, even at this “elite” level with his mid-range jumper, is shooting 55%… Using math (yes, math, it has its uses), you can see that you have to shoot 60% from 2-point range to equal 40% from 3-point range. So Bass would have to take it to even another level if he wanted to get to the point where your statement holds water.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
Sometimes there is no 3...
Do we just give the ball back to the other team, then? This debate is getting wacky.
When we’re down to the final second in the quarter, do we expect guys NOT to shoot half-court shots because they’re inefficient?
He will?
Because he’s never done it. In fact Anderson has never shot over 37% form the line and is shooting 27% currently.
Get over it.
Even if he doesn't improve...
…a 37% three-pointer is equivalent to a 55% two-pointer.
And of course, Anderson’s shooting percentage on open threes is higher than his shooting percentage on all threes.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
And I’ve never seen bass miss an open jumper at the top of the key, so whats your point?
If we’re going to blindly track what we think someone would shoot on an open shot, then let me challenge Ryan Anderson to turning his 3 ball into a more effective option than Bass 90% OPEN 2 at the top of the key.
You’re a silly billy.
Yes.
Bass shoots 90%. That’s a shot which is maybe 60% for the best mid-range shooters in the game, but because you have waved your hand and made it so, Bass can suddenly shoot an in-game jumper better than he can shoot a free throw.
My analysis isn’t responsible for incorporating your crappy observational skills.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
But you can wave your hand and assume what Anderson does on open 3 pointers?
Show me a stat of him doing that with open 3 pointers.
While you’re at it, show me a stat that shows bass misses more than 10% of his open shots at the top of the key.
The sword cuts both ways silly billy.
He shot 37% overall last year.
40% is a reasonable, if not somewhat conservative, assumption for his shooting on the percentage of those threes which were open.
90% is totally laughable and obviously wrong.
That’s the main difference.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
You’re saying he’s consistently taking contested 3’s?
My heavens. The vast majority of his 3’s will not be contested or he wouldn’t be shooting them.
90% is no more far fetched, because if we could look at just his open mid range shots and not the one’s he’s taking 1on1 while being contested you should expected a huge jump in , and I’d be willing to bet he’s shooting at least 75 from that spot in particular.
The only thing laughable here is your man crush on ryan anderson.
Okay. Let's break this down rationally.
One question to begin.
What percentage of Bass’ mid-range jumpers would you say are contested, and what percentage would you say are open?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I can’t say, plain human observation doesn’t allow it.
But neither can you, which is sort of my point. I only know I am very shocked when Bass misses an open mid range shot, more so than when anyone else on the team misses from anywhere.
Thats subjective, so I’d rather not argue it, but its hard to avoid it when you suddenly give Ryan Anderson a 13% increase behind the line.
A 3.7% increase.
Where are you getting 13% from?
My basic reasoning was that if 2/3 of Anderson’s threes are open, and he shoots 40% on the open ones and 30% on the contested ones, that comes out to 36.7% shooting (just 0.4% above his career average).
You try it now! Show me a breakdown in which Bass shoots 90% on open jumpers, and ends up with his actual FG% on jumpers.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Well he’s shooting 27% on the season- thats step 1 that your mssing.
Assuming 36% already is giving him 9% points he has not shown this season.
40% is even further, and its still all together just a guess.
You want me to try and break down how bass shoots 90% on open jumpers? When bass shoots an open jumper, it goes in. Hows that for a break down- hand it holds no less water than your make believe guess either.
Either show me stats are don’t pretend things change when Anderson, or Bass for that matter, is open.
Why would anderson ever shoot a constested 3? If he did it, he’d be put right back on the bench and out of the rotation.
Oh wait… that already happened.
Okay.
What percentage of Bass’ jumpers are open?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I’d say 30-40.
But its a guess.
The person who knows best these 2 forwards already moved Ryan Anderson to third string out of the rotation.
Arguing this like thats not an intelligent opinion assumes to much of yourself or too little of VanGundy.
Okay.
So let’s say he’s shooting 35% open field goals at 90%. We know his overall average on jumpers is 53%. (This is somewhat higher than his career average, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.)
Which means 65% of his jumpers are contested, and he’s shooting them at 34.5%.
You okay with that?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
If its after the play develops, with the second string creating absolutely nothing else. Of course.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Bass is shooting 34.5% on contested jumpers(its a contested jumper.) When he’s in with the first string he takes what the offense gives him and nothing more. With the second string when offensive plays fizzle, I got nothing against it.
How can you assume Anderson will hit at that rate right now?
Using what they have done this season, Bass is much more efficient shooter than Anderson (.513 eFG compared to .474). Take into consideration that Bass is playing with confidence and Anderson is not… my statement that I’d take Bass’ 18 footer over Anderson’s three holds plenty of validity.
Just to be clear, I am probably being sarcastic.
This season isn't a large enough sample size to take it as a baseline for Anderson.
Heck, it’s not even a large enough sample size for Bass yet.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Do you think if Anderson has 10 open threes in the detroit game Friday, that he will connect on 4 of them?
At the same time, if Bass has 10 open 18 footers in the same game, do you think he will make 6?
I’m not saying Ryan will be this bad the whole season, he is just in a funk right now.
Just to be clear, I am probably being sarcastic.
Yes and maybe, in that order.
“Funks” don’t exist. There’s ample evidence to suggest that the outcome of one shot has no bearingg on the success of the next shot.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Say what you want, but shots are not independent events in my opinion
Confidence has a lot of bearing on ones game. Basketball is a game of trends, and for the present, Anderson is in a down trend, Bass is in an up trend, and I’ll take Bass’ shot over Anderson’s shot at this moment.
Just to be clear, I am probably being sarcastic.
Well, your opinion is wrong.
You can have all the opinions you want, but the actual numbers say you are wrong. I’m not trying to attack you, I’m just stating the truth. This isn’t a debatable point, okay?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
You're being too condescending and dismissive, 3.3 seconds.
The independence of basketball shots remains an open empirical question: http://www.insidescience.org/research/the_science_of_streaky_shooting
The scholarly article finding shot interdependence has a superior research design to the study finding shot independence, but the work here is too premature for a definitive answer.
I’d separately urge commentators to be less glib statistically. For example, the concept of the “most efficient” shot in basketball needs to be heavily caveated; the optimal strategy may be a mix of more and less efficient shots. Game theory on this point is instructive.
by gift of the magi on Dec 3, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
50% isn't consistent.
50% is a 33% three-pointer. 50% is a possession wasted.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
But Dwight Howard shooting 57% on 2’s is MVP status?
So Dwight can convert 57%, lead the league in fg% and its amazing. But if Bass shoots 53% its something awful Ryan Anderson could do better than lobbing threes?
You should just give Ryan a call, and tell him you’ll leave your mouth open for him.
Dwight draws way more fouls than Bass.
So there’s that.
And yes, if Bass was a 53% shooter from the field, he’d be efficient. But he’s not, so oh well.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
FG% does not take into account fouled attempts.
And Brandon Bass is shooting 51.3% of the field. So its that 1.7% that changes everything?
You’re grasping at straws here, and to be honest- I think you ran out of straws a few posts ago and are now just grasping.
Bass isn't a 51.3% shooter from the field.
This whole damn post in the first place was about how that’s a fluke.
And TS% takes into account free throw attempts. Also threes. That’s why it’s a much better stat than FG%.
And really — I’m the one grasping at straws? Not the guy who posited that Bass has the mystical ability to float the ball into the basket 90% of the time?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I said that as an argument response to you making up some number for ryan anderson behind the arc when he is 27% on the season.
As for the true shooting assertion : " Bass, as he leads the team with a 60.2 True Shooting mark."
Did ya miss that?
It’s cool man, sticking up for your man. But just admit thats all it is so you can be done with this.
Anderson was 37% last year.
In my opinion, he’s a 36-37% shooter overall. I have multiple years of evidence suggesting that that’s how good he is. You have 22 shots. Not 22 made shots, 22 attempts.
Tell me that’s a statistically significant sample size, and we can all laugh at you and call it a day.
Similarly, I have multiple years of evidence suggesting that Bass is not a 60% TS guy. If you want to cherry-pick one month that says you’re right over several years that say you’re wrong, that’s your business. But don’t expect everyone to leap up and say “yes, Bass is obviously good now!” Because there have been way flukier months in the past, and there will be in the future.
Let’s see Bass keep up this pace for at least half a season. It’s not impossible that he’s changed, but it’s entirely possible that he hasn’t.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Great, an opinion. Wupt -d-doo. He is 27% this season.
No one is saying Bass was always a 60% ts guy, but we are saying he is damn near automatic from mid range. Thats the point you disagree with and keep getting away from by trying to mangle the argument into a world of pure statistics which do not include bass’ open jump shooting percentages.
I honestly don’t know how to argue with someone who sights as evidence statistics that have literally nothing to do with the issue at hand.
So what is the issue at hand?
You trying to act as though 22 FG attempts are somehow evidence that a player has lost the ability to shoot?
(If this is true, Kobe’s Finals Game 7 should have struck fear into the hearts of Lakers fans — they had 24 whole attempts’ worth of evidence that Kobe was a 25% FG shooter now.)
Or you ignoring the actual numbers which say Bass has made 53% of his jumpers overall? That’s not a bad percentage, but it’s a few percentage points higher than his career average. All we’re saying is that that’s likely to revert to something a few percent lower.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Why wouldn’t you expect a small percentage increase for a player when the offense is redesigned to give him shots in his comfort zone?
This is the heart of your illogical frustration, you have no ability to perceive what is going on the court and think every player only does what his career average is.
We shouldn’t even bother playing games, because we could just add up the players career averages and figure out who would win.
Oh wait… There is a real world- where players improve, defenses shift, offenses have more or less spacing, and confidence actually plays a role in player performance.
I know its a place you don’t like to mention, or acknowledge exists, but it is there.
Anyone at this point who still thinks Anderson *over* Bass needs to step out of November 2009 and join the rest of us
www.southsyde.com
Which Bass?
The horrible Bass of last year?
The flukey Bass of this year?
Or the projected Bass of the future — a solid defender who’s a decent but not efficient scorer, a poor passer and a liability on the defensive boards?
Because I’ll take Anderson over the first one, and might take him over the third depending on team needs. I’ll definitely take the second Bass, except that there’s a good chance the second Bass isn’t real.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Wow, you're getting flustered, aren't you?
First there was that claim that Bass is a 90% shooter (all the time, yeah) (sometimes), which is implausible even for you. And now you’re getting abusive. Cute!
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
When I see you flawlessly interpreting stats to make Bass appear as awful as possible and yet Anderson is some sort of untouchable consistency GOAT- for me to presume a giant man crush.
What other explanation could there be? It seems Bass would need to go 15/20 every night with 15 rebound to boot before you’d accept him.
Unfortunately not even Dwight’s that good so I have to go with the old man crush conclusion.
What the hell are you talking about?
First your reasoning fell apart, now it’s your basic syntax.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
love is in the air
You can tell what I was trying to say. I’m typing 1 handed with a baby in my arm, let it go grammar police.
synopsis for you:
If “BASS AWFUL YUCK” and “ANDERSON GOOD YUM YUM” then you = man crush on Anderson.
Hows that for syntax? You’ve run out of reasonable argument to make yet continue to make them- so I’m left to assume man crush, its the only reasonable conclusion.
you guys crack me up
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Dec 2, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Bass has playing very well.
He’s still susceptible to plain dumb plays (and I mean, some of the dumbest plays I’ve ever seen an NBA player make), but right now his positives outweigh those negative plays. Yeah, if he hits a slump from that shot, then his value might take a hit on the floor, but… He’s been doing such a good job of drawing FT’s that I think if defenses take it away, he can still help out the 2nd unit. Certainly not a starter still, and I’d like to think the last 10 games have shown that the Magic’s best starting line-up is still the 4-out/1-in.
Also, kudos for using “torrid”, “horrid”, and “spot of bother” in the same article.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
Well all this ignores his Defense as well, which is a big part of the reason for his minutes as well.
Alas the article is only about his shooting, but even without it he’s a valuable 1on1 defender for guys Lewis wouldn’t have a chance at holding his ground against.
I said, and correct me if my copy-paste is wrong...
“but right now his positives outweigh those negative plays”. One of those positives is his improved defense. He’s now adequate with his team defense, and he’s still a good one-on-one defender, which wasn’t an issue to me last year.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
That quote was pretty ambiguous, and as such I thought you meant strictly offensively as thats all you talked about aside from your 1 line that includes defense but didn’t include any defensive word in it.
Besides, my argument is that even after the “right now” you’re referring to you, in the situation Bass’ shot stops being so automatic, I say his defensive value keeps him on the court.
And that's a decent argument.
Personally, I say his crappy rebounding and status as a passing liability take him off the court. (Especially because ball movement in the second unit has been so awful.) But I could see an argument for his defense making him valuable.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
This is totally random...but tell me what you guys think about these 2 separate trades before the deadline..
Washington gets:
Brandon Bass, Daniel Orton
Magic gets:
Andray Blatche
and
Denver gets:
Vince Carter, R. Anderson
Magic gets:
Carmelo Anthony
That gives us:
Jameer Duhon J.Will
JJ Pietrus
Carmelo Quentin
Shard/Blatche Blatche/Shard M. Allen
Dwight Gortat
And why would you want Blatche over Bass? I’m clearly not a Bass fan, but Bass is roughly 15,000 times better than Blatche.
Blatche has all of Bass’ weak points (mediocre defensive rebounding, poor passing, mental lapses) without any of his strengths. He’s an incredibly inefficient scorer, especially for a big man, and one of the league’s worst defenders.
As far as your Carter and Anderson for Anthony idea, why exactly would the Nuggets do that? For a rebuilding team like the post-Anthony Nuggets, Carter’s only value would be as a (kind of) expiring contract. Anthony has an actual expiring contract. So basically your deal breaks down to:
Denver gets Anderson and pays $4 million next year to buy out Carter
Orlando gets Anthony
As much as I like Anderson, do you really think that’s the best deal the Nuggets could get?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
I've watched Blatche play for the last couple of years..
and to be honest, I really don’t think he’s as bad as what you’ve described. He kind of reminds me of a bigger Lamar Odom. He’s hella atheletic for 6’11/250 llbs., can handle the ball and averages somewhere around 16 and 8…I figure with Stan being the defensive guru that he is, Blatche will become a better one on one defender in no time. In regards to him fitting in with the team defense..it’ll probably take time for him to learn all the schemes, but that would be the case for any new player we’d aquire. Don’t get me wrong by any means, I absolutely LOVE B.Bass (have since seeing him play in Dallas), I’m just thinking we may need a little more height against the trees in LA and Boston come playoff time..but I could be wrong..just putting it out there to see what y’all think..
He's got a 50.6% career TS percentage.
If he were averaging 50.6% this year, he’d be tied for 214th out of 311 players in the league. He’d be tied with JJ Redick (November 2010 slumping JJ Redick, remember?) and Brandon Jennings.
Of course, he’s not. He’s averaging 47.8% this year. 259th in the league. Players around 47.8% include Keith Bogans, Ron Artest, Demarcus Cousins and Brian Cook.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Look I know you don’t like me and whatever because you say I get on your case.
But the answer your looking for… Read it.
Whichever side you agree with, there is A TON of information in these posts, and reading them would only serve you well.
mostly I'm just boggling at the sheer amount of wank
and NOT taking sides. But um, thanks for the advice.
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Dec 2, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
a lot of information about manlove, writting while holding a baby
never giving up an argument, never admit you’re wrong and general blog pollution. Good times.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
by 44792212 on Dec 2, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
sad I missed the manlove bits :-/
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Dec 2, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd. And I think I might have a crush on you for responses like that.
Probably not, though.
"I'm a Rashard Lewis Apologist."
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
Don't mind him. He's just passive-aggressive
Honor is no substitute for victory.
A bunch of nothing, in all honesty.
Internet bullying, yelling into each other’s mouths.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
Yeah there was no discussion of true shooting, bass and anderons’s shooting percentages, No discussion on reasons behind bass’ improvement, no discussion on differing shot viabilities…
Take all the negative ya like. But if you care to look, there is a ton of info.
No, there really isn't.
At least not anything that wasn’t already highlighted in articles before. There was a bunch of useless text that is trying to be passed off as information by people that have nothing better to do with their time than have irrational internet arguments.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
and this post is something totally different.
Look at all the insight in your last 3 posts.
but whatever, sour grapes.
It's no fun any more.
I believe there comes a time in a man’s life when he has to step back and say, “what am I doing with my time? I’m arguing with an idiot.”
For me, that time just came when this Polega guy decided to pass off 22 shot attempts as “evidence” that Ryan Anderson was suddenly a 27% three-point shooter.
I mean, I always thought he was either a troll, a lunatic, or a moron. And I’m sure he’s made other equally awful things in the past. (Heck, the assertion that Bass shoots 90% on open jumpers is a pretty good candidate as well.) But for me, that’s the straw that did that one thing straws do.
This guy is too aggressive to be this dumb, and I’m too easily sucked into arguments with idiots.
So I’ve kind of decided that, as long as he’s around, I’m not posting on this site any more. It just winds me up for no real gain. OPP didn’t used to be like this, and maybe some day it won’t be again.
But the site as it stands now is just wasting my time. I’ll admit, that’s probably mostly because I’m too argumentative. But for now, I’m done. I have things to do with my life.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 4:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Just set a one post limit in any response to him...
or plyka… or matty b… or anyone of these other mouth-breathers. That’s what I try to do.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
Ohhh I got a mention! "flattered"
Thanks Nerdsworth :) I make reasonable point but have a bad habit of “going off” on someone when they misunderstand what I’ve written or when then don’t see the larger picture. I’m trying to work on my anger issues :) By the way I got my masters degree in English from the University of North Carolina after following in my fathers footsteps. He was and English professor there. Mybig sister is also a UNC English master. History of writers in the family. Oh and my mother always taught me to never breathe through mouth because it makes you look foolish. I think your calling out people based on their photos. The two you mentioned are the two who happen to look like big badass beasts and arn’t afraid to show their actual image. Jealousy perhaps. I can’t help that I’m smart, athletic, beautiful and often confused for a UFC fighter. Shame on you for holding that against me :) Smooches!
by Matty B on Dec 3, 2010 10:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I love you most of all DJ Magic Mark.
I’ll hope you’ll read my comment just a few below this one but I still wanted to sent you a personal, friendly hello. I hope you are having a great day so far today. Are you? I sure hope so. So what’s new? Play any Black Ops recently? What’s your kill/death %? I’d sure love to get a few shots at ya in that game. Anyway, just wanted to have some friendly chit chat with ya. Peace be with you my Brother. Hope your day of comment bashing goes well. You’ve got many battles ahead of you. Me though, I’ve decided to become totally peaceful on here. Oh sure I’ll debate some stuff. But all without any attempt at sarcasm or wit. Instead strictly focusing on the topic of the Magic and the issue at hand. See you soon and I look forward to your next highly negative and combative rambling. Later Cuz!
Really? Thanks! See, we're on the road to being buds!!!
Man I’m feeling so peaceful today despite my lack of sleep. Even my hangover has subsided a bit. All good things.. and now, best of all. I think I might have a chance of being buddies with MagicMark!!! We’ll take is slow down worry. I’ll write with slightly less high and mighty narcissism and you’ll agree with or debate the point I was trying to make rather then one particular work or sentence that you didn’t like. This is gonna be great!
I don’t know why but today seems like it’s gonna be a great daaaaaaaaaay.
There’s something in the air that makes me feel like things are gonna go my way.
The birds are chirping tweetaly deet, the sun is shining briiiiiiiight.
There’s a skip in my step, a pep in my pep… and I don’t know whyyyyyyyyy!
Damn it I misspelled several words in that one!!!
I thought I was doing better but I failed you. I’m sorry.
Haha This registers about a 13.5 out of 10 on the Unintentional Comedy Scale.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
or maybe you're just really bad at writing sarcasm?
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Dec 3, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I acutally don't write with any really touch of sarcasm. Just smartassosity.
Anyway dear Squidgirl, I have no quarrels with you. In fact, I want us to wipe the slate clean and start fresh. I feel we can become great friends and have fun and peaceful conversations on here. Your post tend to have very little to do with the Magic and you often jump in on stuff that had nothing to do with you (see above) but I’m fine with that. I can work with that. But I do hope that our differences can one day lead to a successful relationship. I’d like to start that now. I’m turning over a new leaf. I’m now the kind and peaceful Matty B. Let us join hands in celebration of the Magic rather then but heads over such silliness. So to you dear Squidgirl, diligently propped up in front of your computer. Forever snacking away and hating on poor J.J. I wish you a joyful and successful day in whatever it is that you do… or don’t do. Ta ta for now. I’m off the Magic team shop at the Amway to get one of those new black jerseys. I Reddick one hopefully. Let me know if you want to borrow it. XOXO
That's Unintentional Comedy Scale, licensed for use on the OPP by Redfield.
"I'm a Rashard Lewis Apologist."
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
Of course that was intended to be self centered. You will have to forgive my errors though. I'm coming off a bender last night. Woke up in my car in my driveway!
I was a fun successful night though. You know I love you all and of course I was trying to be stuck up and smart ass and silly in this post. But I do go out on Thursday nights and drink a bit too much at my favorite bar. So things that I post on Friday morning will tend to be very, VERY off in one way or another. I was just thrilled to see my name brought up in a comment on a day when I had no participation in posting anything. I’ve clearly made an impact for better of for worse. What I’d like to do though is clear the air and start fresh with some of you. Especially MagicMark, who seams to be in the middle of every attack and battle on here. I’m sure that if I knew you that I’d hate you, but I don’t know you. We are warriors of words who battle on a website blog. You are my brother in battle. You are awful and constantly miss the point of not only my comments but just about everyone’s comments. But that doesn’t mean we can’t work on our relationship. We can mend this. Ok I’ll admit I’m still drunk and being stupid but I do love you all… so very, very much. Especially you DJ MagicMark. You are a King among Kings.
That's too bad.
I’ll admit that I have to bite my tongue a lot to deal with some of this, but I’ve learned a fair amount from reading this site. The key, I think, is to realize that some people like to hear themselves talk, and that they are looking for an argument. Then the joy comes from not giving them that.
But some of these arguments come down to a kind-of faith versus science discussion, or maybe qualitative versus quantitative is a better way to characterize it, and in that sort of argument no-one can win. Because you are not arguing from the same frame of reality.
Anyway, that’s my view of it. And, anyone is welcome to disagree. But, don’t expect a response: I is too wiley to get drawn into an argument over it :)
And, for what it is worth, some of what I’ve learned is from your comments – so I’m sorry to see you go.
"I'm a Rashard Lewis Apologist."
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
Since you have opened a serious discussion, let me share my views, however misplaced it could be in the forum.
In modern research, the deficiencies of both quantitative and qualitative methods have been acknowledged, hence the mixed method has come into existence with the intention to maximize the strengths while mitigate the weaknesses of both methods. The problem is, most people would try to pass on “search” for “research”. In a fine research a balanced combination of both methods would be employed. The end objective is for researchers to “add to the body of knowledge” which requires open-mindedness in not claiming that one has the final word on the subject matter.
by Matt1325 on Dec 3, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd. Beautifully said.
I don’t know your discipline, but in mine this is a constant problem. There are incredibly petty battles over who has the right methodology, often to the detriment of the entire question.
I saw real parallels to that in some of the discussions of this site (not neccesarily in this thread) so I threw those terms out there as a sort-of analogy. (I didn’t mean, however, to associate either quantitative or qualitative investigation with faith/science.)
Personally, I’ve studied in both camps, and now try to approach research questions from whichever perspective seems to yeild the most promising results, mixing when I can.
Thanks for your views; and (this is probably a first for any OPP thread) I agree wholeheartedly.
"I'm a Rashard Lewis Apologist."
I also have it, on my own authority, that I am an expert on this stuff.
My discipline is social science in general, and business in particular.
The struggle is commonplace on methods, but it is getting better. While a few years back no one could expect to have a scientific article published in any credible journal on methods other than quantitative, the trend is evolving particularly with regard to mixed method. The issue – front and center – is finding the appropriate balance between the methods relative to the subject, as you have eluded to be striving for.
Oe better yet,
“How did I get here?”
- David Byrne of Talking Heads
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
ORL★NDO M★GIC
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Dec 3, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Being confused with a UFC fighter
is considered a compliment?
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
ORL★NDO M★GIC
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Dec 3, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And this year's Award for most childish reaction to the internet:
3.3 Seconds!
There were other nominees, but it was hard to beat “I don’t like the way the argument I won’t give up on is going so I quit the website.”
There will be no trophy, but false premise of infamy set for his opponent did apparently have its effect on the blog master, whose rat looking face could only have looked more rat like while proceeding with his ban.
Come on! I for one would object to your decision. It would be a shame to let the blog miss out on your logical and informed posts.
I had the misfortune to be engaged – or attacked – in meaningless debates, as well. The trick is to have the discipline of cutting it off at your own choosing. I admit that I am gullible to be sucked into silly arguments, as well but I am trying to discipline myself not to (i.e., I have set the rule that if I receive any negative response to this post, I am not going to respond).
Anyone hear this column get called out 1080 by Dennis Neumann?
He just said something like. “I read one internet column today where they tried to criticize Bass’s shooting. People have no idea what they are talking about online.” Maybe someone else will have a better word for word interpretation, but they mocked this article hard and sounded annoyed and surprised that anyone would call out Bass right now.
Add me to the list.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
So let me get this straight...
It’s not fair to wonder aloud whether a player will continue to play above reasonable expectations coming into the year? So it’s not fair to wonder if Kevin Love can maintain 14.9 boards a game? Or if Darko will maintain his spot as the leading shot-blocker in the NBA?
It’s a perfectly legit question, and one that any sane person can understand. No one is rooting against Brandon Bass, no one. There are doubters, but no one on this blog dislikes him, thinks he’s lazy, or doesn’t want to see him succeed.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Dec 2, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, if it is any consolation, we will get to see which side is right after the year is up...
Just to be clear, I am probably being sarcastic.
Who cares?
I want to see the Magic holding a trophy at the end of the year, that’s all. I don’t care if it requires everyone to jump on the Rashard protein shake training diet. I want to see the Magic win a title. I don’t care if Dwight wins MVP, if Jameer is an All-Star, if Bass gets more PT than Anderson, if Pietrus steps out of bounds every game, if Duhon never shoots another shot in a game.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Obviously everyone commenting on this post cares because they cannot stop commenting on it...
It is a fight no one is going to win. I am sick of showing up and getting my head bitten off for having a damn opinion.
Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson are special in their own ways. OK?
There is about 5 posters that will bite your head off for saying anything deviant than status quo. get used to it, there’s only 5 of them.
Don’t get frustrated- its still just conversation.
yes that's exactly it
WE ARE HIVE MIND. WE ARE BORG. PREPARED TO BE ASSIMILATED.
Keep fighting the good fight, Dave.
I'm a girl.
by TheGiantSquid on Dec 2, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Playing the internet martyr is serious business, don't you know?
He’s being persecuted for his beliefs by stat nerds!!!
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
bass has helped this team win games period.
we all know from last year on this web site(witch i think is great) there are people who don,t like bass over ryan for some reason. bass is what this team needs to beat a boston or la.
That's the biggest fallacy out there.
What this team needs is better execution than we had in the ECF and for Dwight and Jameer to play like they did in games 4 and 5. If we’re relying on either Bass or Anderson to beat Boston or LA… we’ll end up in the same damn spot as before.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Dec 2, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Your comment on the better execution is right on the money, but why take such a narrow view in discounting the effects of role players?
If a fat player like Glen Davis could contribute to BOS why reject the idea that Bass or Anderson could contribute in their own ways by whatever strength they bring fore.
he doesn't reject the idea, he just tries to focus on the most important things
or at least that is what I understood.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
44792212 had it right.
Of course it will require, to be cliche, a total team effort to beat Boston and LA. But what I feel the team absolutely needs to win are the two factors I brought up. It won’t be Gortat’s rebounding, or Pietrus’ D, or Q’s 3’s, or our back-up PF play. Those will help, but we certainly won’t win without Dwight and Jameer carrying us, and honestly all of those other factors listed before fall in with better execution.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
This has to be one of the longest non-game thread ever here in OPP...
and while some of it is interesting fact-checking and numbers, a lot of it is, well… how to put it? Yeah, you know what I mean.
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
Caracas, Venezuela.
by North of the South on Dec 2, 2010 7:18 PM EST reply actions
I don't remember it reaching the "lows" of this one.
Hopefully it’s just a 1-time incident, and people can go back to normal after this. I mean, seriously we are all rooting for the same team, and the team is winning. We are winning while using Bass? Fine. If we start to struggle, then SVG will make some adjustments, maybe bring Ryan again. I don’t get why the “Anderson vs. Bass”, or the “lets trade half the team” debates need to end in people calling names to each other. Ah, the nature of the Internet.
Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.
Caracas, Venezuela.
by North of the South on Dec 2, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
200+ comments about a role player? Wow.
The silly Anderson v. Bass debate is childish.
It’s a shame that the OPP community is slowly getting less articulate by the day. There’s way too many immature and uninformed commenters ruining the rich discussions that used to be commonplace here. It is what it is.
I write for Magic Basketball and have a Twitter account.
by erivera7 on Dec 2, 2010 8:10 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Comment section are completely dilluted.
Articles are still fantastic, I just avoid commenting.
...the Seminole guy from the other site.
Yeah, good point.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Exactly.
This downward spiral really sucks, but I still really appreciate Evan’s work.
by Zach Zimmerman on Dec 3, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Too true. Rec'd.
Evan is patient to let it go like this.
Polega, you’re a big antagonist in this (you’re not alone, but you’re the most prolific as of late). It is not that you argue, but that you are argumentative. And you refuse to budge from any of your opinions despite being confronted with facts to the contrary. We get that you are a Bass apologist, but you don’t gotta be so rude about it.
Mark & 3.3 tend to get riled up when Polega gets obstinate.
Evan Dunlap seems very committed to letting discussions roll on here so that he is not accused of bias or of shutting down users who disagree with his opinions by the power of banning. He’s very patient. But there is a limit.
Please don't simply ignore the stats when making your case, 'cause "...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Stats Education::
Advanced Stats 101 @ MBN | Basketball Reference | Basketball Prospectus | 82games
by magicfaninTN on Dec 2, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Have to disagree
Mark & 3.3 are equally as argumentative and not nearly as polite as David.
So very true!
Those two make me cranky by misreading comnents and then getting nit picky over what they don’t understand. I have no issue with someone disagreeing with what I say. I love a debate. But when your reading comprehension is poor and you look to battle everyone you become a pest. My problem is that when they get that way with me I tend to get so pumped up for the counter attack that I become a bit of a high and mighty ass. I’m working on that issue. But certain people spark my beast mode side and those two are two of my least favorites. Wouldn’t be that way if the could just be slightly less jerky with their comments. Could ya do that fellas? No? Didn’t think so.
by Matty B on Dec 3, 2010 10:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You could cut it out.
No? Didn’t think so.
That’s just inflammatory and therefore unnecessary. Nobody makes you respond the way you do. Your choice. Own it.
Please don't simply ignore the stats when making your case, 'cause "...your eyes lie to you sometimes..."
Stats Education::
Advanced Stats 101 @ MBN | Basketball Reference | Basketball Prospectus | 82games
by magicfaninTN on Dec 4, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Just a few observations
Don’t really post much, but am a daily reader.
1. I don’t think OPP means any disrespect to Bass, but I can see how the tone comes across negative- especially considering the timing. Hypothetically, we could look at Dwight’s PPG success so far this year, and say, “Guess what, he’s going to come back to normal soon scoring only 18 points per game.” But, if you’re looking for something to come across negative, it will be. If you’re looking for it to be objective, then it will come across that way. Grain of salt people, appreciate the work that’s being done here. It’s fantastic.
2. Stats are powerful, and we’re finally getting to a point where they are being used to in daily conversation- which is awesome. But, you can’t ignore what your eyes show you on the court, either. Stats only show what has been accomplished (or not accomplished) in the past. They can’t take into account the power players control over their performance. JJ Redick has improved every single year he’s been on the floor. Same with Dwight Howard. No reason Brandon Bass cannot either- and even if his jump shot reverts back to his career norms, he can (and I suspect will) be a valuable member of this basketball team.
3. Guys, we’re 14-4. Coming off the best game we’ve played since the Atlanta series in May. We’re coming into the toughest month of our season with the combination of road games and that XMas-week homestand. We’re about to see what we’re made of this month, but let’s enjoy the team and remember we’re rooting for the same guys, regardless of personal preference on player rotations.
by CaneGrad05 on Dec 2, 2010 9:40 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
Great post.
When the big fella was whistled for his fourth personal foul midway through the third quarter, Stan Van Gundy left Clark Kent alone. And in a phone booth measuring 94 feet across, Dwight Howard used that vote of confidence to transform into his alter ego. - Chris Sheridan
by thermodynamic on Dec 2, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Good post.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
Thank you.
who would of thought we would be arguably the greatest of all time
around here we developed such a sound down here
but duplicate it off the steel it can only be found here
5th Rec.
And I would like to double-rec it because you’re a Canes grad.
You can follow me on Twitter. Also run the @Amway_Get_Loud account.
http://twitter.com/JShannonhouse3
http://twitter.com/Amway_Get_Loud
+1
And I didn’t rec it because you’re a um grad.
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
ORL★NDO M★GIC
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Dec 3, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly what I'm thinking
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Dec 3, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
All players go through shooting slumps. Brandon Bass will eventually, too. When that happens, I don’t see how he is going to positively impact the offense unless he crashes the boards like a mad man. Even then, he would only be clogging the lane more. When a stretch four stops shooting the ball well, he will generally still demand enough respect to stretch the defense anyway. Because Bass doesn’t really stretch the defense in the first place, when he isn’t hitting jumpers, he isn’t really doing a ton on the offensive end. I really do love what Bass is doing for the team right now. But I have been around basketball enough to know that his hot hand might be temporary. If that is the case, I do worry about how the Magic’s offense will be impacted. A slight dip in individual offensive production in an intricate offensive system can cause a significantly larger dip in team offensive production.
It's cohesive
This blog is becoming very hostile
As a newcomer like myself, there are times I wanted to share my opinion but always hold back on fear of getting my head bitten. Everybody has their own opinion which no one seems to respect. People will try to prove you wrong in which ever way possible based on their own belief contradicting to others opinion.
We are all routing for the same team I hope ya’ll remember that.
Lets Go Magic.
Surprised to see so many negative comments about this post
I scanned over all the comments as quickly as I could, as it would have taken a couple hours to read every comment word for word.
I thought Evan had mostly positive things to say about Bass in his post. He never said that Bass will definitely regress; he was just saying what if Bass regresses or starts missing his mid-range jumpers.
As Magic fans, even those who prefer Ryan Anderson over Bass, I believe we’re all happy that Bass is doing so well and contributing to the team’s 13-4 start.
Let’s hope it can continue; Ryan’s time will come.
"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 3, 2010 12:23 AM EST reply actions
Whoops... the Magic are 14-4, of course
"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 3, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Tied for 1st in the East, 2nd in the league, yo!
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
yes, i agree mike
"Pietrus is a Guadeloupan God." - TheNole9Yards
"I don't want a massage I want a FACIAL!"
--stay strong, Stacey King.
Thanks swishh!
"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 3, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
So this is the post that broke the camels back
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Dec 3, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions
I just got that "AB" stands for "Anthony Bowie".
This has nothing to do with the rest of this article.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
by slickw143 on Dec 3, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the most infamous triple double in magic history
old school magic fans remember
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Dec 3, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Old school Orlando fans also remember going to Anthony Bowie's Magic Basketball Camp
-SEMINOLES-;;-►
ORL★NDO M★GIC
by Blood, Sugar, Sex, ORLANDO Magic on Dec 3, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
He is still available for appearances at weddings
I wish I were kidding.
Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.
He's like a PE coach at a local school now hah.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
I still don't consider it a triple double, and neither did the opposing coach.
Was it Doug Collins who wouldn’t shake his hand after? Can’t remember exactly.
"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07
yup
the pistons stayed on the other side of the court and didn’t even guard the magic of the last play when he got the assist
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Dec 3, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
didn't Doug left the court early and Bowie tried to talk to him but he was
all “@ you, don’t talk to me” ?
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
I loved it when Doug Collins called Magic games though
Even last year, he brought up AB’s triple double during a telecast (AB the player, I mean . . . not the 3QC commenter).
Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.
it was he break between calling games and saying how he wished he was LBJ
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Doug Collins is mega boring and always politically correct
I remember when Shannon Brown blocked West with his head over the rim and Collins was like “oh, great job by referee Bill Spooner with the goaltending call” and all that.
That was the blow that ended it all for me.
Don't you miss his crying?
He cries a lot for a coach. I mean, actual-tears-crying.
You can have a sig?
The dude is passionate about the game
I remember back when he kissed Otis Thorpe on the lips after Otis hit a game winner.
Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.
oops, it was Terry Mills that Doug Collins kissed
I couldn’t find video footage though.
Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.
Yeah, it's hard to find anything
I have found out it was Pistons @ Bucks on January 28, 1997, but that’s it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=170128015
There must be a photo or SOMETHING somewhere.
You can have a sig?
Yeah; Collins was so ticked off
"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions
by Mike from Illinois on Dec 3, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
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