Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Where Do The Lakers Go From Here?

Orlando Magic 107, Chicago Bulls 78

In a highly anticipated matchup of two of the East's top teams, the Orlando Magic made quick work of the Chicago Bulls, racing to a 24-point halftime lead and winning by a 107-78 final score. The Magic's starting backcourt of Jameer Nelson and Vince Carter shredded the Bulls' perimeter defense all night, scoring 24 and 22 points, respectively, with a series of aggressive, decisive moves to the basket. Carter scored 20 of those in the first half on 7-of-11 shooting before fading in the second, but did his best damage in the paint area, shooting 6-of-7 in the key against the Bulls' overmatched defensive trio of Keith Bogans, Ronnie Brewer, and Kyle Korver. In so doing, he surpassed John Stockton for 37th place on the NBA's all-time scoring list. Nelson, meanwhile, routinely abused Chicago MVP candidate Derrick Rose with his first step and hesitation dribble. When he couldn't manage to get a shot off, he found his teammates for scores, finishing with 9 assists. In contrast, Rose had 15 points and 4 assists. For one night, at least, Nelson soundly outplayed the former Rookie of the Year.

One could argue that, all factors considered, tonight represents the Magic's finest overall effort of the season. Stan Van Gundy thinks so, saying, "I think it's our best win of the year" in his post-game availability session, noting that the Magic excelled on both ends of the floor against a quality opponent.

Indeed, Orlando dominated in nearly every facet of the game tonight, with rebounding (44-21) the most obvious example. All-Star power forward Carlos Boozer, making his Bulls debut, and starting center Joakim Noah combined for 2 boards in 45 minutes. Taj Gibson and Luol Deng led Chicago with 4 rebounds each, while six Magic players met or exceeded that total. Additionally, the Magic connected on 23 of their 24 free-throw attempts, one of the most accurate high-volume showings in team history.

Star-divide

TeamPaceEfficiencyeFG%FT RateOReb%TO Rate
Magic86124.555.3%30.350.019.8
Bulls8493.145.1%19.718.916.7
Green denotes a stat better than the team's season average;
red denotes a stat worse than the team's season average.

The Magic's gameplan offensively was pretty clear: attack the Bulls' perimeter players off the dribble, looking for high-quality shot attempts in the paint. And boy, did they ever execute: Van Gundy said Orlando got into the painted area 29 times in the first half alone. But the Magic, as you might expect of a team leading by 24 points at intermission, came out of the break a bit lethargic and disorganized. They started rushing ill-advised jumpers from the perimeter, moving away from the drive-and-dish or drive-and-get-fouled style that propelled them in the first half. As a result, Chicago trimmed Orlando's lead to 16 on a few occasions. A jumper from Boozer gave the Bulls life at the 6:45 mark of the third quarter, but the Magic drilled three-pointers on two of their next three possessions to take command of the game for good, and sending some fans at United Center home early. The ones who stayed until the final buzzer booed the home team off the floor.

In a lot of ways, this effort is just what Orlando needed. Obviously, you prefer to win big, but this 29-point win more than triples the Magic's victory margin in its four road wins combined. They defeated the Charlotte Bobcats by 3; the Indiana Pacers by 4; and the Washington Wizards and New Jersey Nets by 1 point each. To finally win big on the road is a step forward for this team, I believe, which has struggled at times with its energy and engagement level outside the friendly, lavish confines of Amway Center.

If anything, Chicago ought to be happy it limited Dwight Howard to an inefficient 13 points in 34 minutes; Howard shot just 5-of-12 from the field, with the Bulls' defenders doing an admirable job of swarming him on the catch, making it difficult for him to jump straight up, and with his shoulders square, when attempting a hook shot. Fortunately, Carter and Nelson came through. So did Brandon Bass, who bulldozed his way to 17 points on 5-of-7 shooting. It's hard for me to describe a jump-shooting big like Bass as "bulldozing," but trust me: he did some excellent work inside tonight, getting to the line for seven free-throw attempts against a Bulls frontline that played much smaller than softer than its reputation would suggest possible.

That Orlando limited the Bulls to 78 points on 84 possessions doesn't surprise me too much, though. With Kyle Korver the team's only outside shooting threat, the Magic were free to pack the paint against a very compressed Bulls offense. It's clear that Chicago needs at least one more long-range shooter in order to keep the floor spread against defenses as stout and disciplined as the Magic's. You can see the potential for the Bulls' offense to be something pretty special, as they tallied 21 assists on their 30 field goals, and seven players registering at least two assists. They can move the ball well, but in my view, simply need to get better shots; adding a deep threat will help them with the latter task.

All in all, we might remember this game as one of the Magic's finest efforts of the year, the same way many Magic fans fondly recall Orlando's win over the L.A. Lakers at Staples Center in January 2009, and I mean that. It's very possible we won't see the Magic play this well against an opponent of this caliber for a while. Enjoy it, and hope it signals the start of a better approach to road games for Orlando.

Though the victory ultimately came pretty easily, the Magic had a tough time coming up with subs. J.J. Redick missed the game due to illness, and Mickael Pietrus left after just five minutes due to an upset stomach as well. As a result, Van Gundy had to play backup point guards Chris Duhon and Jason Williams at shooting guard. Quentin Richardson also logged time there, not that it makes much of a difference to the Magic's starting small forward, who likes to say "the wing is the wing." Richardson played 21 straight minutes between the two positions in the second half. Starting power forward Rashard Lewis banged his left knee in the second half and needed to leave the game. He didn't return. I expect we'll hear more about his condition tomorrow or Friday.

Comment 96 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

This is the type of game

I expect out of the Magic. Go into a division leading(not anymore) teams home after a back to back and dismantle them piece by piece. Somebody lit a fire under Vince tonight, because he was possessed in the first quarter. Jameer will be an All-Star. Literally destroyed Rose and also shut him down. Lewis is regaining form. Looking more and more like a true contender. Want to see them against Boston.

by Mateo9399 on Dec 1, 2010 11:38 PM EST reply actions  

From what I saw, Dwight caught rose on nearly ever possession as he went past Nelson.

This is what the magic defense is designed to do mind you, funnel everything to Dwight, but I’m just saying give the credit where it is due- to Dwight Howard.

D-rose’s defense has never been remarkable which is disappointing considering his speed and strength so expect Jameer to continuously get his numbers against rose.

Just give the defensive credit to where its due- the man ultimately stopping a nearly unstoppable driving point guard was Dwight Howard. Though I’m not saying Jameer should not get credit for playing within the defensive scheme, it is incorrect to say he locked down rose.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

Of course everything is funneled to Dwight. But Jameer never allowed him to make any adjustments. Either that or Derrick Rose does not have as high a basketball IQ to make any adjustments. Speaking of this, is Derrick slightly overrated. Yes he is a great scorer, his assists numbers are higher, but does anyone here gush over him the way that ESPN does??

by Mateo9399 on Dec 2, 2010 8:49 AM EST up reply actions  

How quickly would you trade Jameer + carter for Rose?

The answer is probably before you even finished reading the question, because Derrick Rose is that good.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Then you are impossible.

Bother watching Rose at all on Team USA? He is a pick and roll machine. Give him the slightest opening to drive and he’ll use it right up. Double him off the screen he does 1 of his super hops and finds the open man. They literally rode Derrick Rose’s PnR to win the tournament. You think they could have done that with meer? Heck no is the answer.

So what then makes Meer better for this team? His 3 point shooting?

I’d be willing to bet a 33% 3 point shooter where he is the only offensive option would do just fine in a system laced with shooters and Howard in the middle concerning his 3 point shot.

He also averages better assists than Meer in an offense with worse shooters and no Dwight Howard.

I don’t understand how anyone in their heart of hearts says Nelson is better for the magic. Fit my foot. Coaches adjust offenses to best fit and maximize their talents, not the other way around. Which is why I never cared if Ryan Anderson fit better than Bass, fit is a non issue unless its referring to specific 2 player chemistry.

And there is no way conceivable in my brain that Rose and Howard PnR would be absolutely wonderful.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

*there is no way conceivable in my brain that Rose and Howard PnR wouldn’t be absolutely wonderful.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Nelson averages more assists per minute – 8.5 per 36 to Rose’s 7.4. He also turns the ball over less – 3.1 to 3.4. All that without much drop-off in rebounding (0.2% difference in TRB), despite playing on a better rebounding team and being three inches shorter. Rose is an inferior shooter (he’s just now better than rookie Nelson for eFG%), inferior handler, inferior defender…will he be great someday? Probably. But he’s not what the Magic need.

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Dec 2, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

inferior handler?

Open your freaking eyes.

Stop reciting stats and watch a basketball game. Rose eats double teams, creates all the offense himself, and gets to the rim AT WILL.

Its weird the tendency to ignore point blank questions that end the discussion of who is better. Could you ride Jameer Nelson to win a world championship? No. But Derrick Rose had absolutely no problem with it.

Derrick Rose is a better basketball player, he’s keyed on defensively worse than Howard is- so of course his stats will look slightly sloppier than his actual talent. Explaining the turn over rate is easy as well, put Meer on the bulls and tell him to score 30 on the night with 8 assist with no shooters to kick to and no dominant inside presence- Meer would double in turn-overs and still probably not hit the mark.

Stats are a great tool, but only if you understand them in context.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

You watch a basketball game.

He willingly takes low-percentage shots, has little or no ability to recognize the open man as a passer, and doesn’t play defense. Driving is the only thing he’s above league-average at.

If you put Jameer on the Bulls and told him to score 30, he’d say, “why? Wouldn’t I be better off focusing on getting high-percentage shots for everyone?” Because Jameer is a basketball player.

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep. Derrick can create bad shots all day.

He can create them for himself, he can create them for his teammates. He can create more bad shots than anyone in the league.

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Hm...

I was about to say Raymond Felton but he actually plays kind of well lately with Amare on the pick and roll

by Raptorel on Dec 2, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah... no need to go after Felton.

Of the five Knicks who have played the most minutes this season, four of them (including Felton) are above 58% TS. The other one, Wilson Chandler, is at 54.9%.

Conversely, of the 10 Bulls who have played 100 or more minutes this season, only Joakim Noah (59%) and Kyle Korver (58.7%) are above 54%.

As a team, they’re at 53.1% for the season, tied with the Clippers and Philadelphia.

That is a terrible offense, and I don’t see how you can look at it without questioning the point guard’s skills at finding high-percentage shots for his team. Yes, they don’t have Boozer, but they’re sucking right now, no question about it.

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

you are impossible.

Derrick Rose is better than Meer. And his defense would look just as good as Meer’s if he could just funnel every guard that goes past him to dwight.

He creates good shots, bad shots and medium shots because HE is the offense. And more often than not he converts.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Rose’s defense would also look better if he could funnel his man to Noah. Shame he doesn’t have the court sense to do that.

And when he’s shooting, he “converts” less often than the league average, actually.

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he's that overrated.

He’s fun to watch and makes a lot of really athletic plays, so yeah, he gets ESPN love. But I think considering the lack of efficient offensive talent around him his whole career so far, he’s done pretty well for himself. He’s improved every year I felt, and with Boozer getting integrated into that team, I think his efficiency will increase. A Rose-Boozer PnR will be pretty tough to stop once they get comfortable with each other.

And yeah, inefficient or whatever, but 26 and 8 is 26 and 8 (or whatever he’s at now after last night’s game). Through the first 15 games, Deng was the only other option they had offensively, and it’s not like he’s a master at creating his own shot.

I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.

by slickw143 on Dec 2, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

David is right. Rose is better.

Can’t believe this turned into an argument. Meer is a solid point guard but Rose is so good and I really don’t think the dude is overrated at all. Look what he has done with the Bulls and look what the guy has to work with. I would take Rose over Meer anyday. Doesn’t mean that I don’t like Meer but my goodness Rose is good.

by blumad on Dec 2, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Now probably yes.

But, give Rose a 1 or 2 years and Rose will be better than Francis was. Francis probably rebounded better than Rose will ever. But, Rose will shoot a better %, and average more points and assists. Plus, just a little bit of defensive effort from Rose is twice as much as Francis ever gave on defense.

by blumad on Dec 2, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Francis was incredibile for a few years

Then exponentially started to fade away into nothingness… a shame, really.

by Raptorel on Dec 2, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

His offense hurts his team.

The shots he creates for teammates hurt his team.

I’m not saying he doesn’t have raw talent.

I’m saying that when your true shooting is under 54%, you shouldn’t be taking 20 shots a game. You are actively hurting your team’s chances to win with those shots. You are using possessions badly.

This is neither a difficult point, nor really a debatable one. When you are shooting below the league average, you’re losing ground with every shot you take.

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

Not when your team has no other legitimate option.

If he was with the Magic I’d agree, but when Rose is not in the Bulls cannot score. It’s like what happens here when Dwight is out but times 2.
 
When the defense looks at you, and only you and you can still put up 31 regularly- You’re not losing ground. You’re keeping the lead or getting the only ground the team has.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Except

that a lot of the reason “your team has no other legitimate option” is because you, the point guard, can’t manufacture open high-percentage shots for your teammates.

And all the other “non-legitimate options” put together are shooting around 1% worse than you, so what makes you so legitimate, eh?

I don’t think “he has to take those crappy shots because he can’t create non-crappy shots for anyone else” is all that strong a leg to stand on.

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Well its not like he has 0 assists, and "he has to take those crappy shots because he can’t create non-crappy shots for anyone else" regardless of how worthy of kick stand is the truth in a sense.

Your Idea that he doesn’t create shots for other is ridiculous. The Magic have assembled as many sharp shooters as possible on their roster and have Dwight Howard waiting in the middle any time a defender rotates.

The bulls? Asik, Noah, Deng, Gibson, Brewer, Korver. Michael Jordan himself would have had trouble getting these guys good shots. But you’d probably say all Jordan was good at was taking bad shots too right?

Its a freaking joke. even when he does kick the ball to an open shooter, they suck so horribly they don’t shoot it and it isn’t out of the ordinary for this to turn into Rose having to move all the way back out to near the half court line to get the ball back and try it again.

And what leg exactly are you standing on with meer? Quit arguing shot selection with me, thats a function of the designed offense. Look at their skillsets, look what Rose can do to defenses by himself.

In a world where we could trade Jameer for Rose we’d be a 72 win team, with hardly any doubt.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Rose can waste possessions against offenses by himself.

He shoots 53% TS, the opponent gets the ball, goes back and shoots more than that. This is very basic stuff… I don’t know how you are failing to understand it.

And you want to see what a real point guard can do for a player? Look at Hakim Warrick. 56% true shooting with Chicago last year, 62% with Phoenix this year.

You mean to tell me Steve Nash can turn Hakim Warrick into Amare Stoudemire, but when Derrick Rose turns Luol Deng into Trevor Ariza, that’s bnot partially on Rose? Not even kind of?

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Rose is the Bulls' best offensive player, so he is going to take the most shots

It is what it is.

He’s still averaging 8 assists per game, which isn’t exactly chopped liver.

Before Wednesday night’s blowout, he led his team to a 9-6 record despite playing a very difficult schedule without their top free agent signee Carlos Boozer.

Once Boozer gets comfortable in the Bulls’ offensive system, which will take awhile, Rose will be a more efficient scorer, and his TS% will go up.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't understand criticizing Rose...

For essentially not being Chris Paul. What other PG with the kind of dearth of offensive talent around him like Rose really creates a spectacular offense all by himself? Cut the kid some slack.

"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07

by slickw143 on Dec 2, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

"No other legitimate option"? Really?

Because last time I looked, Korver, Noah, Gibson, and Asik all had better eFG than Rose. I mean, I realize the idea of “pick and roll and pass to the roller” is difficult, but if Rose can’t do that with Noah or Asik, well, I’m not too optimistic on him doing it with Bass, Howard, or Gortat. If Rose has no legitimate options on offense, than Vince Carter isn’t a legitimate option (Korver’s shooting better), nor is Gortat (worse than Noah) or Bass (worse than Gibson from the floor).

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Dec 2, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Rose has had three games this season of double-figure assists

Games of 14 assists, and 13 assists twice, so the notion that he’s not doing enough to pass to his teammates doesn’t make any sense, IMO. The players have to get open and make the shot when they get the pass; it’s not DRose’s fault when they don’t.

One also needs to consider that Rose is playing under a new head coach with a new system and seven new teammates, including an injured Carlos Boozer, who just returned last night. The team chemistry should be much improved later in the season.

Can we wait to see how the season plays out instead of making rash judgements about such a talented young player after only 16 games.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Kyle Korver is one of the most one-dimensional players in the NBA.

He can shoot 3’s, yes, but he only plays 24 min/gm because he’s a liability in most other areas. For crying out loud, Thibodeau finds it prudent to start Bogans over him. Yeah, it would be great to get him more shots, but it would be great for him to be able to play 30+ min/gm since he’s the only deep threat that really scares defenses.

Noah and Gibson are more efficient, Noah moreso from the inside and Gibson from the mid-range. But just how wide open would they be without having the defense so keyed in on Rose? I think LeBron proved for a few years in Cleveland that when the D is so focused on one player, it can turn others into more successful players. Actually, I think dominant offensive players throughout history have been doing the same. I think Noah’s offensive game is slightly ahead of Varejao’s, while Gibson plays like a poor-man’s Horace Grant right now (I like both players mind you, but more for what they bring defensively and in rebounding).

Asik averages 2 shots a game. I am not going to comment on his “efficiency” over a 16 game season averaging 2 FGA’s.

I’m sorry, but I find myself impressed that the dude averages as many assists as he does with this rag tag group. They are not an offensive juggernaut, and as Mike pointed out above, they’re in a new system (that is, they’re in any system, since Del Negro was just like “hey, go play”). And let’s be honest here, Thibodeau wasn’t hired for his offensive genius.

"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07

by slickw143 on Dec 2, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

One bad game does not make Derrick Rose overrated

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

of course it does, Mike

Geez, don’t you know anything?

I'm a girl.

by TheGiantSquid on Dec 2, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Gosh, I guess not :-)

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Rose gets stats by running a very high usage rate

Part of that is because he’s basically the only guy on the Bulls who actually can score, but a lot of it is because he remains a highly inefficient player, possessions wise. He’ll fill the scoresheet, but he’ll kill your offense doing it.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 3, 2010 4:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait until their offense - and Rose - gets acclimated to Carlos Boozer

Boozer will take some of the pressure off Rose offensively, and Rose will be a more efficient scorer; his assist rate should go up also (not that 8 assists a game is bad to begin with).

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 3, 2010 4:52 AM EST up reply actions  

8 assists per game isn't bad as a raw number

But Rose is only assisting on 22.2% of the possessions he uses, compared to a genuine playmaker like Chris Paul (40.2%) or even a score first, playmaking capable guard like Nelson (31.5%).

Combine that with his lousy TS% (53.6%; with Paul going at 61.3% and Nelson at 58.2%) and you see why I think his inefficiency is a problem. It’s only his massive usage rate – second highest in the league – that is allowing him to post the big raw stats he’s putting up, and when you’re not using the ball efficiently, and not defending well either, that’s a problem for team dynamics, in my opinion.

Worth giving him a chance to get used to Boozer, of course.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 3, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

He's not Paul.

No one is, and I think only Nash is close in terms of making other players look better. Paul turns water into wine on a regular basis. If you put Rose on the Magic without having to be the only one to create offense, or on the Celtics where he could just orchestrate the offense, or on Utah with Millsap and Jefferson, or… Yeah.

I don’t think he’s one of the 5 best PG’s in the league right now, but I think he certainly will be by next year. I’m scared of what that team can do with Thibodeau’s defensive mind coupled with a Rose-Boozer PnR.

"We just want to chill" - Chris Bosh.
Proud Jameer and Rashard apologist since '07

by slickw143 on Dec 3, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

How about Rose's clutch plays against Phoenix last week

He hit the game-tying free throws in the final seconds of regulation to send the game into OT and then at the end of the first OT he made a reverse layup with 0.1 seconds remaining to send the game into the second OT, which the Bulls eventually won.

Agree with slick about Rose not being a top 5 PG yet (CP3, but he is close, and the future is limitless for how good he can be.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 3, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Better use of Vince tonight ...

I liked his offensive rebounding, drives and dunks in the first half. He still can’t buy a call when driving in the paint and that is one reason that in play-off time he is less effective.

It was such a huge win that one has to worry that the Bulls are bound to be better in the rematch and motivated as well.

Great victory tonight. Nelson was awesome in the 2nd half. Bass and Lewis hit big shots as well.

by consultant99 on Dec 1, 2010 11:46 PM EST reply actions  

Bass if playing real well.

Lewis is coming on strong. Not sure what was wrong before but he is coming along in the last few weeks.

by Mateo9399 on Dec 1, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Well the Magic isolated Vince and put him in post-ups

That’s the way he both scores and creates passes (and also gets assists for these passes).

by Raptorel on Dec 2, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Bulls D made the mistake of keying in way too much on Dwight.

It’s funny that Tom Thibodeau of all people was in charge of this gameplan… then again, for all Noah’s virtues as a defender, he’s simply not equipped to go one-on-one with a guy like Howard. (Kind of like Al Horford.)

The Bulls, like the Hawks, are a team that has had little or no success against the Magic lately, in part because they don’t have a physical defender who can take Dwight on, and in part because their offensive downfall (too many mid-range jumpers) is exactly the mistake the Magic excel at forcing teams into. This is just a match-up that favors the Magic, and while the team certainly deserves praise for their execution in making this a blowout, it’s difficult to imagine the Magic not beating the Bulls unless some serious stuff goes wrong.

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 12:03 AM EST reply actions  

Whats more...

After being all over Gasol the past week, defensively and in rebounds, Noah looked absolutely overmatched againt Howard. He got CERO rebounds in the game! Dwight simply blocked him out every which way he tried. CERO… ZILCH… NADA!

by manny55 on Dec 2, 2010 3:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I still think

Teams should wait to see if Dwight actually will destroy them before trying to double him. OK, if he starts going off against your guy, then start bringing the help, but at least make him earn it. The Bulls, like a lot of teams, started doubling him when he was outside the paint. Not smart.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 3, 2010 4:31 AM EST up reply actions  

That's true

Dwight has games when he looks like a bench warmer offensively, even with single coverage.

I’d take my chances with that.

by Raptorel on Dec 3, 2010 6:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Props to Jameer Nelson for outplaying Derrick Rose

Rose had his lowest scoring output of the season, his fewest field goals made of the season, and tied his lowest assist output of the season.

I was really worried that DRose would exploit Jameer on the offensive end, but Jameer was the one who did the exploiting.

I’m sure the Bulls will learn from this loss much like the Magic learned after their blowout loss to the Heat.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 12:23 AM EST reply actions  

Bulls'

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 12:23 AM EST reply actions  

Bulls' announcers had plenty of good things to say about Vince Carter

In the first half, radio play-by-play man Chuck Swirsky said that this is the best he’s seen Vince Carter look in three years against the Bulls, while color analyst Bill Wennington said that he hasn’t seen Carter this active in years.

They also discussed the rumored trade of Carter for Arenas, and they both said they don’t see how that would benefit the Magic, and that they shouldn’t make the trade.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Evan gaining recognition.

who would of thought we would be arguably the greatest of all time
around here we developed such a sound down here
but duplicate it off the steel it can only be found here

by 4QB on Dec 2, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, your on Washington Post

and I think NBA TV also got your story, they mentioned the Gilbert Arenas trade on their interview with Brian Smithz. And on that interview, Smithz agreed with Greg Anthony that ORL doesn’t have a leader, Dwight is not yet that guy. :(

by zakchi on Dec 2, 2010 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

lol

Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.

by 44792212 on Dec 2, 2010 3:12 AM EST up reply actions  

There is also a yahoo article about it where they pretty much just repeat Evan line for while talking about how the Wiz’s GM says there isn’t an ounce of truth and calls Arenas their best player.

Total BS imo, I believe they wanted Vince and we said no and offered up Lewis and the thing Fizzled.

John Wall/ Vince Carter Back court? Hell yea says the wizards, and I don’t care what gm says different.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Jameer Nelson and Dwight Howard

Have they heard of them? To me, Jameer is SVG on the court, just a lot quieter and Dwight is also leading this team. I just hate how people do not think Dwight is a leader. Listen if Jameer plays great, we will 99% of the time. Look at the Boston series. All four losses Jameer was not effective. It is the truth. All of us, myself included, can say Vince did this or didnt do that, blah, blah, but this team goes as far as Jameer and Dwight take us.

by Mateo9399 on Dec 2, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

in general when an analyst says something about intangibles, heart, or leadership- you should just ignore it. Some clown writing commentating has no idea what that means in a basketball sense, and probably not any real sense either.

I don’t have the exact stats, but its clear that it is at least 100% complete and total Bull Shizz.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I was thought about that when I heard Swirsky and Wennington talking about it

I’m thinking… they must have gotten that info from Evan’s report!

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 1:37 AM EST up reply actions  

The Bulls' 21 rebounds shattered the franchise record for fewest rebounds in a game

Their previous low was 25 rebounds against Miami in February of ’02.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Dec 2, 2010 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

Another shattered record

Is Dwight holding Noah the #2 rebounder in the league at 13.2, to zero rebounds in 25 minutes of play. I’ll go out on a limb and say that never happens to Noah again in his professional career.

That’s the type of ridiculousness Dwight is capable of. That game in Houston where he shot 100% FG, him being the first player in history to lead the league in FG% + Rebounds + Blocks and being the first player to lead in rebounds + blocks consecutive seasons. He’s the only current player who wins games with defense alone. I think Dwight or Westbrook will deserve the MVP this season.

"It can be done, you can just crush somebody" -svg

by Warlando on Dec 2, 2010 2:13 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, I think it's Dwight or Paul at this point.

Granted, I’m anti-Westbrook, but I just don’t see his FT rate holding up, and as soon as that dips, his accuracy is a liability.

Beyond that… I don’t see anyone from the Heat making it unless the team as a whole seriously gets their act together.

Kobe cancels out Gasol, while not doing enough to mount his own candidacy.

Celtics don’t have one definite solo star.

Durant hasn’t looked sharp this year. (And honestly, never did enough to be an MVP anyway. I love Durant, but when he’s not scoring, what is he about?)

Ginobili has been amazing, but even if he somehow maintains his pace, everyone thinks of him as a no. 3 guy, and he’s not posting the counting stats to overcome that.

Good news for Dwight is that he’s the only center in contention. (Unless you count Gasol.) With Paul and Westbrook, plus fringe guys like Rondo and Williams, PGs may cancel each other out.

Bad news for Dwight is that he’s got company for the blocks and steals titles. Kevin Love in particular is going to take some catching…

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 4:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah.

I didn’t mean he was completely one-dimensional.

Just saying that there are usually a few 25-30 PPG scorers out there, and usually one of them either runs his team’s offense, or is an All-League caliber defender.

I’m told Durant has become solid on D after a rough start, but he’s not going to get bonus points for either one of those things. If he wants an MVP, he is going to have to beat everyone else on scoring, because there are very few guys with 25-PPG potential whose non-scoring skills aren’t markedly better than his.

(Offhand, I can think of Carmelo, Granger and Dirk as guys who are arguably less well-rounded…)

You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.

by 3.3seconds on Dec 2, 2010 6:27 AM EST up reply actions  

if they Magic are gonna "underperform" for three games vs bad teams and then dominate

in such way a good opponent, I can live with that. Besides everything else, holiding Noah to zero rebounds is just ridiculous.

Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.

by 44792212 on Dec 2, 2010 3:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't say anything during the game not to jinx it

but I had a really good feeling about that game. For me it’s the continuation of the Spurs game and that Heat one was ok I guess. I agree that ulcer is not our friend but that was really a dominating preformance last night, worth of a couple of “meh” ones.

Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.

by 44792212 on Dec 2, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Anybody know why SVG "Rynoed" Jason Williams last night?

J-Will was in for less than a minute, and then he was taken out for good. It was odd since he didn’t seem to be injured or anthing (although he did fail to follow Korver through a screen).

Incidentally, from this point forward, I shall use the word “Rynoed” as a verb for any time that SVG yanks a player from the game within 120 seconds of putting them in. I’m hoping it will catch on.

Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.

by funny80sguy on Dec 2, 2010 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

He was debating with SVG on the sideline about how to properly rotate defensively. Obviously they didn’t agree and Van Gundy was trying to explain it to him but J-Will seemed pretty steadfast that he couldn’t have done it different so after a few seconds of this discussion Van Gundy just said fine and pulled him.

I don’t mind it, I’d rather him do that than pretend he knew what he had to fix and watch it happen all over again. Then again, I hardly mind anything Williams does, lol.

by David Polega on Dec 2, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

If anything, I just love how the Magic played Vince in the first half

For like the first time ever since the New Orleans 48 point outburst, they used him as a scorer. And Vince kind of sucks on the road, he didn’t in this game. They isolated and posted him up, and of course that’s part his merit and part the team’s/coaching merit, but it was so great to see. I wish they’d use him more like they’re supposed to be using him in the first place.

by Raptorel on Dec 2, 2010 6:16 PM EST reply actions  

I thought it was Vince going to the offense boards...

For me it was Vince going to the offensive boards instead of being the first player back on D. That was different. I assume that SVG does not want him hanging around the offensive glass; a waste of his jumping ability. Tonight was it Vince or was it part of Stan’s game plan; I am thinking the latter?

By the way on the first basket he tipped Howard’s miss twice scoring on the second. He was credited with one offensive board and taking two shot; I thought i and 1 or 2 and 2 would have been fairer.

So on the season Vince has 8 offensive rebounds – six in his last two games.

As far as being a key part of the Magic offense I don’t think so. Vince is one of many supporting cast members behind Howard. Just prior to his injury I think Vince TOUCHED the ball about six times in the first half against SA . Nelson either on his own or as part of SVG game plan goes long periods ignoring Vince. The reason the offense looked so much better with JJ in the starting line-up was Nelson actually passed to him. I gave up counting when Reddick had touched the ball 12 times in the first quarter.

I am a VC fan and I believe that he has not been used properly in Orlando. He has some great strengths even in his declining days. Playing him for his defense and as an outside decoy is not the way I would use him. Going to the offensive boards and working some plays with Howard (other than pass and clear out the key) would be a nice complement to Nelson’s drives and passing to Howard. In his Nets days he worked some great passes with Mickie Moore and Brooke Lopez; I have rarely seen a VC to Howard pass and dunk particularly this year.

by consultant99 on Dec 3, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I've said it ever since Vince was traded to Orlando

The 2-5 with Dwight is imperative… I’d practice that in different scenarios over and over and over if I were the Magic. And I don’t really like Nelson’s passing but truth be told, he’s passing it better lately and looking more for the teammates when he’s on the floor (when he’s off the floor he’s looking at the ball I suppose, or maybe the cheerleaders? Oh never mind :D).

Anyway, yeah, Vince played well with his centers from the Nets, especially on the high pick and roll (he does this with Howard as well but it usually results in Vince passing to the wing and then that player passes to Dwight in the post, instead of a direct pass from VC to Dwight). It’s weird.

And Vince has developed the tendency, lately, of going to the rim for the offensive rebound when Dwight is in the left high post. If you look at the Detroit game, he’s done that follow-up dunk on Dwight’s miss from the same positions. He usually goes to the right wing to space the floor for Dwight, but if he feels like D is going to shoot, he’s now going to the offensive boards because his defender usually doesn’t pay attention to him anymore and doesn’t box out.

by Raptorel on Dec 3, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Vstan_small
2012 NBA Draft Primer (★Magic Edition★)

Recent FanPosts

Vstan_small
Rocket Plan
Small
Please not again...
Small
Otis Smith, a fair comprehensive trial of all his trades.
Images_small
Dwightdreams: Superteam or Traditional Team
Small
Rumor - Dwight to Miami for Bosch/Wade
Avatar_small
Sign an Extension or be Traded ... Fallacy or Simplicity?
Small
IF you could build your own team? MR/MRS. GM
Small
Would this be a Beast in the East or not?
Images_small
Ryan Anderson: To Re-sign or Not
Orlando_magic_logoish_small
Deron Williams CAN sign a Max Deal with Orlando (Not a S&T)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Contact Us

General Twitter feed

Evan Dunlap, Managing Editor / Press Contact

Tiny Blogroll

Rather than include our complete blogroll in this space, we've decided to link to it instead. That way, you won't have to do as much scrolling. Enjoy.


Managing Editor

Minimalistchalksquare_small Evan Dunlap

Contributing Writer

Primaryosb-logo_small Mike from Illinois