Ryan Anderson Still Not a Part of the Orlando Magic's Rotation
by Evan Dunlap on Nov 26, 2010 8:01 AM EST
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PrintWith a poor opening 94 seconds against the Utah Jazz more than two weeks ago, Orlando Magic forward Ryan Anderson fell out of coach Stan Van Gundy's playing rotation, and has appeared in just two of Orlando's seven games since then.
What did Anderson do wrong in that game? He turned the ball over twice on the wing, with ace Jazz defender Andrei Kirilenko applying pressure on both occasions. And between the two turnovers, he allowed Utah forward Paul Millsap to sink an easy jumper over him. In the post-game press conference that night, Van Gundy said he did not like Anderson's "approach."
Wednesday night, following the Magic's 104-95 victory over the Miami Heat, I briefly caught up with Van Gundy and asked him to specify what he meant by the word "approach" as it pertained to Anderson's performance against Utah. He politely declined, in so many words.
"You know what? That happened a long time ago," Van Gundy said, making his way off the podium in the Amway Center Interview Room. "And I don't want to keep piling it on him. He's trying to deal with getting ready to play the next time."
Anderson had already been on thin ice with Van Gundy, so to speak, prior to the Jazz game. Van Gundy pulled him permanently in the first quarter against the New Jersey Nets five days earlier, then benched him for the entirety of Orlando's win against the Charlotte Bobcats one day after the Nets game. From rotation player to situational starter to the end of the bench. Ryan Anderson's 2010/11 season, folks.
Two weeks ago, when it became clear that he'd be relegated to mop-up minutes for the foreseeable future, Anderson expressed his displeasure. Via Zach McCann of the Orlando Sentinel:
"It’s a tough situation. I’m not going to lie to you and say that I’m happy," Anderson said. "It’s something that we’re trying to become the best team we can, and we have to get some consistency for guys."
On a per-minute basis, Anderson ranks second on the team in scoring and third in rebounding, yet the team has performed poorly with him on the floor so far this season. With Brandon Bass providing fairly consistent productivity at backup power forward, it seems likely that we won't see Anderson back in the rotation anytime soon.
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Purely speculation...
SVG is a bright guy, so his choice of the word “approach” was probably not an accident. Possibilities? Utah is a very physical team and Ryan didn’t seem to be ready for the pace/physicality of the game. Kind of like a rookie QB in the NFL. He also seems to be the laid-back California type, perhaps not demonstrating in warm-ups, practice, etc the killer instinct that SVG cherishes. With Bass he “appears” to be a buzzsaw, with Ryan it’s a bit more nuanced. SVG perhaps wanted him to put his foot down on the neck of the position (and minutes), to not feel too comfortable, and just “kill” anyone on the other team trying to take away his minutes. It’s kind of hard to explain, but I hope you get my drift. SVG wanted him to play like a man possessed and like somebody was threatening his family, or something like that…
Double Standard
So why do others of the rotation get a bye? Lewis, Pietrus, Redick and Duhon have been much worse as their small sample size PER’s indicate. On another note, why has Bass been getting inconsistent minutes? He has a great PER and always brings a fierce tenacity. Seems SVG will continue to stick to the same gameplan as he has the last several years as he’s unable or unwillingly to change.
I’m hoping that Anderson continues to speak out as it seemed to work for Pietrus. He’d be a certain decent to big minute guy on practically any other team so he should keep the pressure on SVG for minutes.
Since when has Bass gotten inconsistent minutes???
He is almost always the first person off the bench in every game, and has played 20-28 minutes unless he gets into foul trouble.
This IS a new gameplan for SVG...
And quite honestly Ryan seems too timid sometimes which is total opposite of Bass. And if Anderson can’t get physical with Gerald Wallace and a Bobcats frontline or AK47 and a Jazz frontline…what can he possibly bring against Gasol/Odom with the lakers or Garnett and the other 10 centers and power forwards on the Celtics? You know bass is gonna ware them down with his energy on at least one side of the floor. They figured Rashard out at the 4, what makes Ryan so different???
by Memphissleek on Nov 26, 2010 12:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
One would hope Van Gundy has at least explained it to Anderson.
If Anderson doesn’t know what Van Gundy is looking for, then how is he supposed to improve? And if Van Gundy has basically said that there’s no way he’ll be back in the rotation, even with improvement, then that’s hardly motivational.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Nov 26, 2010 11:15 AM EST reply actions
Ryan Anderson is tradebait
I am not sure why this site likes Ryan Anderson so much. It is very clear that Bass is the better fit due to his energy and consistent ability to nail the open 12 footer. Bass is the closest thing we have to Horace Grant, who was the best PF in Magic history.
I remember reading a piece about how RA is better then Bass here over the summer. It made me laugh because you can not always nail it with stats. At a certain point, you just have to forget about numbers and watch the games and see how the team is evolving. We do not need more 3 point shooters. You only need 2-3 great 3 ballers on the court at once. We have that in JJ/Vince Rashard and JAmeer. All those guys can make the 3 pointer. Feast or famine from the PF position has killed the Magic. Having a guy like Bass who is almost a lock from midrange is exactly what we need to keep us in games. I understand why you would prefer Anderson in the preseason, but I personally knew Bass was the better fit, he just needed to learn the system and work harder (which he did).
The final piece will be the wing who can score off of dribble penetration. Once again, a high % shot. Basically, we need a Nick Anderson type. A guy who shoots the 3 decently, and scores off the dribble. Yes, I am going old school with my references, but that was the greatest Magic team of all time because they could score from all areas of the floor. If SVG was coaching that team instead of Hill, we would have won a title.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
Except players can be measured by stats. Last season, Ryan Anderson was a vastly better player than Brandon Bass.
This season, Bass is playing incredibly well, while Anderson has not played well at all. What we’re seeing is likely the worst Ryan can play, as well as the best that Bass can likely play. Ryan Anderson has a higher ceiling than Brandon Bass, and anyone with any amount of basketball knowledge knows this. Right now, Bass is playing too well to not get as many minutes as he is getting. I personally don’t care who plays because as long as we are winning games, I am happy.
I agree, but..
Stats can not predict the future as well as people think. That was my point. While Ryno was more effective last year, it was obvious to me that Bass would not only fit the Magic, but change the scheme for the better. Ryno is a smart guy, figured out the system fast and was more effective on the court. But Bass was out there not really knowing his role yet. So it is very hard to compare stats in that situation. It seems that some players need 2 years to learn the SVG system (JJ, Bass for example).
We do not need to play both. I would rather rotate D12, bass and Gortat and get more physical bigs for depth over the summer. The more guys you play the less they improve over the season. I wish Orton would get better because he would be quite nice to have in a year or two coming off the bench.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
Why not play both? Anderson is capable of becoming a good player. He isn't the second coming of Rashard Lewis or anything, but he will be a quality player one day.
There are only so many minutes to give out, and Bass is doing so much in the minutes he is getting that Stan cannot possibly reduce them, just for the sake of playing someone who hasn’t gotten many minutes. If Ryan improves in practice, or plays well in the minutes he gets in games, I am sure Stan will give him another shot.
yea ive been sayin that all summer
bass is what we need..we already have too many 3 point shooters. we need a guy who brings toughness and energy, and can nail the mid-range jumper/drive
but i dont see why we cant play both?
i agree bass is a better fit but anderson is still good and very young
Inconsistent minutes typically leads to inconsistent play. Ryan started his first couple games out playing very well, and then the minutes got scarce and his play suffered.
Bass was/is playing too well to not play as many minutes as he has. It is a good problem to have, but unfortunately there are consequences – and Ryan is the odd man out right now.
I agree. Bass gets better as he plays more minutes (besides the Spurs game and some silly TOs).
The problem will be that the day our opponetnts decide to put more pressure on Brandon, we’ll probably gonna need Ryan, who is a different cover because of his range. So Ryan is gonna have to produce after spending a lot of time with J-Will in the bench. Magicman775 might have a point too in that SVG felt that he needed a Bass type of player last year.
On the other hand, 3.3 might have a point too. I aslo feel like with Brandon on the flour we got away from our 3 point game which, when it works, is quite efficient but I don’t know. It’s not the change that worries me, is that our offensive efficiency is n° 13 in the league right now, compared to n° 2 at the end of last year (and I ain’t saying it’s all Bass’ fault).
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
I'm sure it will. Cause when our offense goes into one of those black holes,
well, it’s kinda scary. Defense will win you a championship but you still need to put the ball in the basket to win a game.
Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.
Good offense still beats good defense
When the defense will start putting more pressure on Brandon, he needs to go to the basket or pass. He’s working on the passing already (still very raw on that) but hey, I appreciate him for trying, he doesn’t want to be a black hole on offense.
How do you know?
Clearly, putting the PF in the middle of the floor at 15 feet or so complicates the passing lanes, and makes it easier for his defender to double-team the center.
To me, the question isn’t “does having a non-three-point shooter on the floor interfere with the team’s three-point game?” The only question is “how much”?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
That’s too bad. Anderson was an excellent backup behind Dwight Howard last season
by Jeffrey Thompson on Nov 26, 2010 2:31 PM EST reply actions
its not the 94 seconds. ryan just is not what the magic need to win a championship period. i think stan sees that now.
the fact is bass just needed some time in svg system to get comfortable.i like ryan but if we are going to match up with boston we need bass in there not ryan. said this last year.
i was wrong huh .go check and see the games we beat boston in the playoffs.
it was bass getting minutes not ryan. we see the rout svg is taking and i,m sure he knows a little more than me and you.bass is the key to a ring this year not ryan.
yup
obviously nelson and dwight carried us to those wins against boston in the playoffs, but Bass helped out in those games more than Anderson
less athletically gifted athletes cannot have a higher ceiling than another athlete who is athletically superior.
Unless one assumes only one of them can improve, the one with more athletic ability has a bigger upside because his physical attributes give him more possible advantages to use in his game.
Outside of athletic ability, there is no objective way to determine potential.
by David Polega on Nov 26, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Which provides
and easy area for experience to improve.
Where as Anderson would find it far more difficult to improve inwhat Bass does.
by David Polega on Nov 27, 2010 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think Anderson wants to improve the "inefficient mid-range jumpshot" part of his game.
Anderson shoots one of two shots – 3 pointers, or shots at the rim. The two most efficient shots in the game (outside of freethrows).
Will Bass' athleticism help him to shoot the three-ball?
by Evan Dunlap on Nov 26, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Now think how broad the scope is the other direction:
Is Anderson gonna 1on1 muscle to the rim and draw a foul on a dunk?
Which is more likely?
Look you can predict based on athleticism what a player can be capable of, other metrics can’t help but be subjective because you can’t guess a future skill set, only whether the athleticism is there to do it or not.
by David Polega on Nov 27, 2010 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
If Anderson's athletic ability is the problem...
…why is he a vastly better rebounder than Bass?
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Rebounding is a good part instinctual.
Charles Barkley was 6’6" and he was an amazing rebounder – so contrary to popular belief “Size isn’t everything”.
Charles barkley was also huge.
The round mound of rebound as they called him.
Size isn’t everything, but there is no 6’5 centers, ya dig?
Size does matter.
by David Polega on Nov 27, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Ryan outplayed Bass in the playoffs last year too.
Even if you don’t think this year is an open question (I understand enough people value counting stats over percentages, and enough people value offensive rebounding over defensive rebounding, to disagree with me on this year’s performances), there’s no question Ryan was the better player right through the playoffs. (Small sample size, of course.)
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
RA last season compared to Bass this season
Small sample size for Bass and 25% increase in PT compared to RA last season.
*Anderson/Bass
PER TS% EFG% ORB DRB TRB
18.1/19.9 .574/.598 .536/.510 9.2/13 16.2/16.7 12.8/14.9
*Anderson/Bass
AST STL BLK TOV USG ORT DRT
7.1/10.8 1.4/1.2 1.1/1.3 11.7/13.3 24.5/20.8 112/120 103/100
Basic stats were 7.7 PPG on 6.2 FGA for Anderson and Bass at 9.5 PPG on 6.5 FGA.
The stat that stands out most to me is RA’s usage. His USG last season was third highest on the team and his 27.0 this season is second only to Dwight’s 29.1. Jameer is at 24, VC at 22 and Rashard under 19. Pau Gasol has a 22.1 USG this season for perspective. I’m not trying to knock RA, quite the opposite but he has to get his usage way down. So far Bass has been able to produce more than RA did last season with over 15% less usage. I have no preference on who gets PT, only that whomever it is produces. Bass has been an amazing story so far this season and I’m happy for him. Was it off-season work effort or simply becoming more acclimated that turned it around for Bass?
"It can be done, you can just crush somebody" -svg
by Warlando on Nov 28, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec.
Stats + rational conclusion = good conversation.
by David Polega on Nov 28, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
To answer
It’s stan that’s using Bass different. He adjusted his offense to allow for Bass’ talents rather than trying to make him fit in a hole he struggles to adjust to.
In general, Coaches offense will change based on the talent he has to work with- and the reason why is obvious. In order to get the most out of your players, you need to put them where they would play best.
by David Polega on Nov 29, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Well, yes and no.
For example, I want to dock Bass for his offensive rebounding. He crashes the offensive boards, which hurts the team’s transition D. But the stats you’re looking at actually give him credit for this reckless play. (And camouflage his lousy defensive rebounding.)
And I’m still convinced our increasing reliance on the Horns (and other sets which put multiple players inside the paint) is behind some of these three-point shooting struggles.
Now, all of this is a series of asterisks if Bass keeps shooting the way he’s been shooting, and doesn’t forget how to play defense again. I don’t believe he can keep up this pace on the former. Good luck if he manages it, though.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
Anderson will be fine.
He needs to get a little tougher. Get into the gym work out, and go over tapes with the coaches. Some asked before why does/did Rashard keep playing? Uh he makes $20 million dollars, that is why. Anyways Ryan will be fine.
Ryan's only 22; he needs to work as hard as he can in practice and stay patient
Eventually good things will happen for him.
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by Mike from Illinois on Nov 26, 2010 3:57 PM EST reply actions
I agree
i think he is the future…but this year, we need Bass more than Anderson
This could very well be true.
I agree that Anderson has a higher ceiling, and I’m still not sold on Bass as a long term player for us. However, Bass might be of more value and use this year. What could happen is Ryan spends this year learning, developing more, working out more, and then one of them could be a very attractive trade asset this summer, packaged with Vince (who could then be bought out for $4 mill). Or maybe not with all the labor uncertainty.
I love LeBron. No really, I love Jameer.
This makes the most sense. Both Bass and Anderson have their limitations.
Neither one of them is comparable to Horace Grant, in my view. Bass would be hard pushed to extend his shooting range, and Anderson could become stronger but not faster or more athletic. I doubt that either could turn into a starting quality player on an elite team, but they each could round up into very fitting role players. As of now, the team needs more defense than offense; advantage Bass. I agree that eventually, the way the team is structured there is not enough room for both, hence one would be a trade bait.
Additionally, I doubt that coach Van Gundy – who is a players’ coach – would leave Ryan in limbo with no hope. I am certain that he has explained the team’s needs and requirements at present time to Ryan, and has emphasized the improvement in defense as the key factor. Coaching staff watch players in practice, and as Ryan shows signs of defensive improvement in practice, he would get the chance to get back in rotation, and most probably this is what has been conveyed to him.
by Matt1325 on Nov 26, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“I agree that eventually, the way the team is structured there is not enough room for both…”
Really? Lewis’ contract ends in 2012.
Of course, Ryan’s contract also ends in 2012.
But if Bass keeps up this shooting pace, and Ryan sticks around/gets the time to prove he is the player he can be, I think there’s definitely room for both.
You mess with the 4-out/1-in, you get the Horns.
JJ was in his boat not too long ago and Bass was in it last year.....
He’s young and if he learns from those two players he will work on his game and where SVG wants him to improve, then when his time comes hopefully for him he can take advantage of it, because like I said JJ and Bass did and look at them now. Very improved players from when they first joined! It was inevitable that some one was gonna be odd man out, but its a deep team so be ready when you’re time is called cause its about match ups and defense!
That’s the best way to look at it. I just dont want the organization mortgaging their future for winning today. The Cs and Lakers are very good and even trading for a Melo or Paul doesn’t guarantee a championship.
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