If VC is out the year...
by jiggadpg00 on Nov 23, 2010 6:09 AM EST
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Printand if we couldn't get Carmelo Anthony in a trade...would you guys be willing to trade VC for Arenas? Or would you just let this season go to waste (as i don't think we have a chance of winning it all without VC)
I really hope VC isnt out the year, and it's just a minor injury...but if he is out the year, and if we couldn't get Melo, I'd be open to trading for Arenas. I believe that Washington would take Carter's expiring contract, as they are a rebuilding team, and want to groom John Wall without the distractions of Arenas.
I've been following Arenas this year, and the past week, he has been lighting it up statistically. I think he still has a lot of game left in the tank, and I believe that SVG can mold him into a more mature player. Plus he can handle the ball, and score 1 on 1.
On the negative side, obviously, are his enormous contract (even though I think Rashard's is still a little worse considering he doesn't do anything but score points), and his shady character (which I don't think will be that much of a problem in a winning environment like Orlando).
And as much as I'd love to get CP3, with the Hornets winning, I don't see him leaving town anymore...so in my eyes, Arenas is the best out there that we can get if we cannot get Melo or cp3
What do you guys think?
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well
he is 28 years old which means he’s in his prime and can still get better…plus I think he would be a great fit in the Magic system…he shoots the 3 pretty well, can create his own shots, and can distribute the ball (he had 16 dimes the other night)…I think he can still be a star in this league if he gets his act straight.. and I think playing for a contender will make him get his act straight..
but talent wise, I think he can be better than VC on a night-to-night basis
If Vince is out this year, the Magic will be fine.
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i dont agree
we won’t be able to win it all without VC..we might have a nice season record, but we won’t be able to beat miami, boston, or LA (and maybe even a couple other western teams) without vc
In my mind, an Arenas trade is a desperation trade-and those rarely go well.
"I'm a Rashard Lewis Apologist."
No
Do not give a rival in your division an expiring contract and give them flexibility to bring free agents in. Never understood that trade.
that is actually an incredibly valid point. There IS a bright side to Vince acting like he gets shot everytime he gets hurt!
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Or JJ's for that matter...
He’s been playing great, hitting his first three pointer of the season!
Shane Battier?
I was just reading Bill Simmons chat on ESPN and he mentioned OKC and Orlando as teams that might be willing to try and get Battier from Houston. With the Rockets starting 3-10, Daryl Morrey (sp?) might be willing to trade their assets for future help at weak positions. Yao will never be the same and the Rockets will only consider bringing him back with a extremely reduced salary, so would they do a swap of Gortat for Battier straight up? a terrific 3 pt shooter and big wing defender, he would be a perfect fit for our offense. The question is, how much would that REALLY help our team with having Q, MP, and Battier and then VC (if he is healthy) and JJ at the 2 spot, is that too crowded? Would that make our team too weak at the Center position behind Dwight?
I really liked the idea of bringing in Battier during the summer and thought it would be a good move, and I believe I even mentioned it as much in a few “trade scenario” posts during the dog days of summer.
Also, what about possibly making a bigger trade that could land us Battier and Kevin Martin? would that be a possibility? I am not sure, just somewhat thinking out loud (and typing my thoughts as they come to me). Salary wise, a Bass+VC deal for those 2 would work. Throw in $ and a pick, and that might be enough for the 3-10 Rockets. I am not sure what the impact of all of this would be, as I haven’t really digested it all, just wondering what you all think, really.
NOTE — the original thought of Gortat for Battier is contingent on VC not being seriously injured and the second trade thought would be if he is hurt, and at which point I am sure Bass + basically expiring VC deal wouldn’t be enough for Martin and Battier, but it would be a possible starting point.
Also, not saying we REALLY need to do anything, but this is the most likely scenarios I could come up with in terms of trading/needs/assets/willingness by both teams.
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its a smart thing to never listen to anything bill simmons says about the magic
we already have shane battier – his name is mickael pietrus
I didn't necessarily mean I was like, "Oh nice! Bill Simmons said ____ about the Magic! Alright! This MUST be what we should do!"
It merely reminded me of the guy that I liked in the offseason who would be a perfect fit here. And he is actually close with the Rockets GM so he does understand his thinking a little bit I think. Secondly, yes, I agree that Battier duplicates our man MP, however! Battier’s B-Ball IQ is 100% higher than MP, and I don’t think there is anyone that would doubt that. If anything it would relegate Q to the bench more I think (which is way I liked it more in the offseason before we got Q) I completely understand what you are saying though about it probably not being necessary.
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He (Battier) has a significantly higher salary than MP - with not much higher upside, and we would lose our backup center under the trade you proposed.
The dropoff from playing someone other than Gortat at backup C (Bass most likely) would not be worth the gain we would potentially get from having Battier play more minutes.
yeah, that was my biggest concern as well. Which is why I was leaning more towards the 2nd trade I mentioned
But that one would have a significantly less chance of getting done, Like 0%.
I wouldn’t call 2 mil. more a “significant” amount though.
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they are simply not any good with him this season, so that was the only reason why I even mentioned him. But I agree that they are unlikely to move him, just thought he'd be an interesting person to discuss b/c of what it would take to get him...
….or at least, my estimate of what it would take to get him. But he is the caliber player I feel the Magic have the ability to get, but not someone who’s a “stud”
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I think they would unload him
They have Courtney Lee already who makes $9 Mill less. They are not going to come back. A trade of Vince for Battier and Kevin Martin makes sense for both teams. Rashard for Arenas. I would trade Gortat if we at least got Jordan Hill back in the trade. All you guys who say it gets crowded? Ask the Lakers and Celtics how they do with all their mouths to feed. If you want to win a title, people suck it up and listen to the coach. This would allow Bass or Anderson to start at the four. And I believe Bass and Hill would be able to man the 5 to give Dwight a break. And get Daniel Orton healthy. Calm me crazy but that is not that bad. Everyone slightly wins. Rashard’s contract expires before Arenas. Also this does not sound too unrealistic.
Pretty ridiculous, frankly
Orton’s not ready, Arenas is a cancer (and Washington wouldn’t take Lewis) and there is absolutely no way in the world that the Rockets give up their only perimeter threat for an expiring contract. Sure, they have Courtney Lee, but that’s like saying someone should compact their Ferrari because they’ve got a Ford.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Lewis's contract comes off the books a year before Arenas contract.
Kevin Martin does not equal a Ferrari. If you said they get rid of their two year old Lexus because they bought a new Toyota, that makes more sense. If they are horrible with Kevin Martin it won’t really matter. Vince Carter is playing pretty good this year. Very efficient. Probably would be better in Houston if he was the featured player. Either way, the only reason I would trade him is because we know he is not coming back next year. Arenas is a headcase, but I think Dwight has matured and a combo of him and Jameer would keep him in check. Jameer, Martin, JJ, and Arenas would cover our backcourt, while Pietrus, Battier and Richardson covers our SF. Bass, Anderson, Dwight, Malik Allen, Orton and Hill would cover the front court.
Kevin Martin is a Ferrari
Compared to Courtney Lee. OK, maybe he’s not a top of the range Enzo, but he’s still in a different class to a Mondeo. (Do you have the Mondeo in the US?)
If the Wizards trade Arenas, they’ll want either an immediately expiring contract, or young talent, or draft picks, or some combination therein. There is precisely zero – not in the world, not on this planet, not in this lifetime – chance that they trade him for a contract which is almost as bad, and possibly still worse because it’s so much more expensive per year. They would absolutely laugh at a Lewis for Arenas deal.
And Jameer, Martin, JJ and Arenas would give us one of the most defensively weak baackcourts in the NBA. Arenas is barely sized as a point guard, let alone a two, and Martin is one of the worst defenders in the league. Redicks OK at fighting through screens but he’s not athletic enough to stop faster guards rather than pure shooters, and Nelson’s not great defensively either.
That lineup might be fun to watch, but it’d get absolutely shredded in the playoffs. No thanks, a million times over.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 24, 2010 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
Dwight covers everyone on defense
You can not say 100% they would not make the trade. None of us are GM’s. We don’t know anything. Just speculate. Would they take it? Who knows? I just would not give up an expiring contract to a division rival with a stud a PG. That is not good business in my opinion.
Yes, I can say 100% they will not make the trade
I’m not a GM, no, but there are some things sane people don’t do. I can also say with full confidence that New Orleans would 100% not trade Chris Paul for Chris Wilcox and Ben Gordon, for example. I’m sure I could give you about infinity million other scenarios that aren’t happening, such as Dwight for Elton Brand.
Sometimes trade scenarios are realistic. Sometimes they aren’t. Lewis for Arenas isn’t. Sorry.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 25, 2010 4:59 AM EST up reply actions
Battier's a much, much better defender than Pietrus
He’s a better team offensive player than MP too, although he doesn’t have MP’s explosive offensive capability, he’s not going to ruin the team’s offensive flow by taking repeated contested threes either.
If we could get Battier, I’d take him in a heartbeat. Not sure for what, though. Gortat’s just as important and we literally have nothing behind him.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
We can stop this theorizing now. VC has a sprained knee, and the MRI was negative.
He’s a gametime decision for the Heat game, but it’s not a serious injury.
by The BBQ Chicken Madness on Nov 24, 2010 8:04 AM EST reply actions
JJ is a better player per 48 minutes than VC
I think JJ now that he found his shooting touch against San Antonio is a better player than Carter at this point. Let Jameer create off the dribble and JJ rain the three’s. I think we’ll be fine through this stretch and disagree with the Arenas talk.
by UCF Knight and Red Sox on Nov 24, 2010 12:08 PM EST reply actions
The team will be fine, buts its not because of JJ
It’s because we have Dwight Howard. As long as Howard is still breathing, 4-1 will beat most teams even if we had to use our bench + howard.
by David Polega on Nov 24, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Have you bothered to check that out?
Try basketball-reference.com, stats per 36 minutes.
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