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Around SBN: Where Do The Lakers Go From Here?

Matt Barnes' amazing stat line from Friday night

In the LA Lakers' 112-95 win in Minnesota Friday night, former Magic SF Matt Barnes had a sensational stat line of 24 points on 7 of 7 FG shooting, including 5 of 5 on three pointers and 5 of 5 FT shooting for a freakish eFG% of 135.7% and TS% of 130.4%.  He also added 7 rebounds and 6 assists and 2 steals.  According to ESPN, this was only the third time in the last 25 years that a player has scored 20+ points along with 5+ rebounds and 5+ assists on 100% FG shooting in a game.  The other two players to accomplish that were Charles Barkley and Gary Payton.

Even though it's early in the season, I wanted to compare Barnes' season statistics with the Lakers to the Magic's Quentin Richardson, who the Magic signed to take Barnes' place at SF.  Barnes, in 21.3 minutes a game, is averaging 9.4 ppg, 5.8 rebounds, and 2.4 assists and is shooting 50% from the field, including 46.7% on three pointers with a TS% of 60.7%.  Richardson, in 21.4 minutes a game, is averaging 6.5 ppg, 4.5 rebounds, and 1.3 assists and is shooting 35.6% from the field, including 27.7% on three pointers with a TS% of 46.4%.

Many Magic fans were really disappointed to see Barnes leave the Magic because of the toughness and energy he brought to the team, but the signing of Richardson was supposed to be better for the Magic offense because Q can stretch the floor a lot better with his shooting than Barnes.  So far this season, that has not proven to be the case, and there is no question Barnes is doing much better for the Lakers than Q is for the Magic, but with Richardson's 15 points on Thursday against Phoenix, hopefully that's a sign of better things to come for Q, as there's still a long way to go in the season.

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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I would be happier about Barnaby if he didn't make those comments about the Magic recently.

I miss his “hard cutting” ways a bit but if we’re going to give Duhon some time, I guess Q-Rich deserves that too. Matt, also has, as usual, more TOs than Q.

Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.

by 44792212 on Nov 20, 2010 11:27 AM EST reply actions  

what comments did he make about the Magic?

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Nov 22, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions  

something like the Magic need him but they wouldn't give him the $ and now they pay for it.

It was after the heat game, I believe. I supose it was a tweet just to piss Otis a bit.

Don't mind my spelling. I'm a Typo Master.

by 44792212 on Nov 22, 2010 2:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Jokes on Matt then

Otis probably doesn’t know how to twitter.

Proudly mocking the Disciples of Panic (some Magic fans) since October 29, 2010.

by funny80sguy on Nov 22, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

No Otis knows how.

He just says stupid stuff when he does tweet.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 24, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Otis is NOT on Twitter. There is an "Otis Smith" but it isn't him.

You can follow me on Twitter. Also run the @Amway_Get_Loud account.

http://twitter.com/JShannonhouse3

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by JeffShann3 on Nov 24, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

If he wanted the Magic to pay him

He shouldn’t have opted out of his contract.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Barnes is playing on a much better offensive team than Richardson

And beware the problem with small sample sizes. If Barnes shoots 47% on threes the whole season, it’ll be a miracle.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 20, 2010 6:52 PM EST reply actions  

I don't expect his 61% TS% to hold up for too long, either

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Nov 20, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

With Pau Gasol playing like he’s the best player in the league, it’s hard to rule out anything from the support around him.

I thought the MVP this year was between Durant and Howard.

Now I believe its between Gasol, Paul, and Howard- with Howard behind because of how shaky the magic have looked by comparison to those 2 teams.

by David Polega on Nov 22, 2010 1:21 AM EST reply actions  

Al Horford

And Russel Westbrook have been fantastic early in the season, but they probably don’t have the right reputation to be considered. So far, those three are the big three.

Can’t see Gasol getting it because Kobe’s there, so unless Durant pulls his finger out, it’s probably between Paul and Howard right now.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 22, 2010 6:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Gasol stands out right now more than anyone I believe- But I also think he’s been the best player on that team for at least 2 years.

Stat wise every night he puts up some crazy monster line, like last night 10/10 28 pts, 9 rebounds, 5 assist, 4 blocks,1 foul, 1 turn over.

That’s pretty hard to ignore, and if he just plays like he’s been playing even before that game I don’t know how they keep the mvp voters off him.

by David Polega on Nov 22, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

The media is wrong, and I wouldn’t care except the MVP should mean something.

MVP =/= Flashiest guard. MVP = guys that dominate the court when their on it, both defensively and offensively. Prime shaq, Garnett, Jordan, Gasol, Howard, prime kobe, olujawon. Those were legit candidates. If you need both, Gasol, Chris Paul, Howard are the only names that should be mentioned if we’e looking at this season.

by David Polega on Nov 22, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the argument from the media would be...

Pau is, like you both have mentioned, playing alongside Kobe. Does Kobe’s presence on the court increase Pau’s effectiveness? Undoubtedly. Does Pau’s presence increase Kobe’s effectiveness? Absolutely. The most important thing I think to look at when trying to judge an MVP choice is dominance first, and in a close 2nd, how good would the team be if that particular player wasn’t on the team (or if you want, how good is the team if the player was injured). This second factor is crucial because I believe that helps decide the “value” portion of the award.

Now, I don’t think Pau will win it because I think it is too difficult to determine the value of a player to the team when there are 2 extremely talented players playing together (Kobe + Pau – LA; LeBron + Wade – Miami) Which is why I think the award will come down to 4 people this year:

Kevin Durant – Always will be in the discussion with his scoring ability. While Russell Westbrook is talented, I don’t think he would be considered strong enough to take away from Durant’s presence on the court (ala Kobe + Pau)

Chris Paul – Has his team playing extremely well right now and is a dual-threat PG on Offensive and Defensive end. No real talent outside David West in NO.

Dwight Howard – Offensive improvement, obviously. Still the most dominant on defense in the league. No real “second superstar” quality players, but low minutes due to blowouts/foul trouble might fudge the numbers, detracting from his box scores. Dumb reasoning? Absolutely, but the writers will use it. and so everyone understands my feelings on the “no 2nd stud” thing, Jameer has been playing like an All-Star again & VC has the highest FG% of his career so far, so it’s not like he’s playing with chumps.

Rajon Rondo – Has had an incredibly hot start, dropping dimes like a narc in Jamaica Queens in the 80’s. He is by far the most important part in the Celtics offense and is really a catalyst for them on D. His FG % is at .500 right now and his 3pt shooting is actually the best of his career so far. (only 33% though). Rondo most assuredly suffers from T-MAS disease, or the Too Many All Stars disease to be considered an MVP candidate by most writers.

Obviously this is too early in the season to tell who is winning this race, but based on record I would put CP3 in 1st, Dwight 2nd, Rondo 3rd and Durant 4th.

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by JeffShann3 on Nov 22, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Pau Gasol is the best player on a 2 time champion team.

His stat lines make Dwight’s look silly.

He’s playing off his natural position at center because Bynum is out. He’s a natural 4.

Saying he shouldn’t get consideration for any reason is ridiculous.

by David Polega on Nov 22, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

If you read my post, I didn't say I agreed with that. Why do you feel the need to be so argumentative all of the time?

Is it because you were a debate champion or whatever the hell you said in a recent post? I was merely pointing out WHY he MOST LIKELY wouldn’t be considered.

You can follow me on Twitter. Also run the @Amway_Get_Loud account.

http://twitter.com/JShannonhouse3

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by JeffShann3 on Nov 22, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m just saying why their wrong if they did vote that way.

Predicting what they will do is beyond my psychic power, has nothing to do with being argumentative.

by David Polega on Nov 22, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing with Gasol

Is he’s playing with Kobe. It’s hard to win an MVP when you’re playing right alongside another guy who people also think could win the MVP. For every voter who notices Gasol balling, there’s another one who’s going to give credit for Lakers wins to Bryant.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2010 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Derrick Rose of the Bulls deserves to be mentioned as an MVP candidate

Everyone has mentioned well-deserving names, and I can’t think of any reason why Rose should not be mentioned with them. The dude is playing some serious basketball… averaging 25.2 ppg on 48% shooting and a TS% of 54.6% along with 8.1 assists and a PER of 22.6, while helping lead the team to a 7-4 record despite a tough early-season schedule and the absence of Carlos Boozer.

His outside shooting has improved significantly from his rookie year, which has always been the knock against him. His 3 PT% is already eight points higher than last season. The scary thing is he just turned 22 years old in October.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Nov 22, 2010 7:21 PM EST reply actions  

I’d agree if he had half the impact on the defensive end that these other guys do. Dwight, Gasol, Paul, James- Those guys are far and away more valuable than rose- you can’t even really make the comparison.

Rose is great, an all star, but he’s not quite chris paul. I think he will be better than Williams or Paul in 2 years, but right now he’s still calibrating his game rhythm. He’s explosive, dynamic, shooting the long ball and mid range ball well- and when he starts putting all that into the flor of the game*which is funny to say considering his 8apg) he might be the second coming up there in chicago. But not yet- Right now he’s just brute forcing the competition superior talent, which is great but its not the same all over the court effect the other mentioned candidates have.

by David Polega on Nov 22, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree... Rose is not in the category of Chris Paul yet

As impressive as Rose’s numbers are this year, Paul had had five outstanding seasons and is entering his sixth year, while this is only DRose’s third year.

Paul is shooting only one percentage point higher than DRose this season, but CP3 is shooting 12 percentage points higher from three point range, and 13 percentage points higher at the FT line, so he has a much better TS% than Rose. Paul is also significantly better than DRose defensively.

If Rose can improve the next two or three years as much as he has since between his rookie year and now, he very well could be as good as any PG in the league in another couple years, but I won’t be surprised to see him finish somewhere in the top 10 in the MVP race this season.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Nov 23, 2010 1:58 AM EST up reply actions  

He'll have to learn how to pass

His biggest problem in the MVP race is that he’s not a good enough creator to compensate for the fact he’s a (relatively) inefficient scorer compared to someone like Paul, because he’s a weak outside shooter. He needs a higher volume of possessions to get his stats, and he’s not as good defensively.

Right now he’s not even the best scoring oriented PG in the league – that’s Russell Westbrook. Sure, Westbrook doesn’t have the shoe deal, but he’s performing at a higher level – slightly better scoring and passing on less possessions, and he’s a much better defender.

I’d have Steve Nash as the MVP (again) before Rose, right now.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

It's most valuable player

Not best player. Not that I necessarily agree with Nash’s award, but you’re judging it on the wrong criteria.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Nash shouldn’t have gotten the first one, but I think he deserved the second. Duncan didn’t get it the first year because he missed 20% of the season, and the second year his stats weren’t as good (Nash outscored Duncan, and Nash averaged 10.5 assists when he got the second MVP).

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Nov 23, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

As I understand it Shaq was still PLAYING then. And unquestioned was more valuable than nash.

by David Polega on Nov 23, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Shaq played 59 games in 2005/6

It would have been an absolute farce to give it to him. I know you’re a massive Shaq fanboy, but look at reality, not some imaginary world.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 24, 2010 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I would have gone

Garnett in ’05, Nowitzki in ’06.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 24, 2010 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah forgot what garnett did that season, was pretty intense.

The one year I was a wolves a fan, lo.

by David Polega on Nov 24, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Rose has improved noticeably on his outside shooting since his rookie year

He has worked really hard on it, and his three point percentage has improved by almost 8 points since last season.

I think Russell Westbrook is a really good PG who has improved significantly, but there is no way I would say he’s performing at a higher level than DRose.

Westbrook’s stats so far this season: 22.5 ppg on 43.6% shooting, including 23.5% on threes; 8.2 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 1.9 steals and a PER of 24.7.

Rose’s stats so far this season: 25.2 ppg on 48% shooting, including 34.1% on threes; 8.5 assists (he has to learn how to pass, you say?), 3.6 rebounds, 1.1 steals and a PER of 22.6.

I think Rose’s assist mark is impressive when one considers that he doesn’t have a superstar teammmate like Westbrook has Kevin Durant. Rose is averaging slightly more assists per game than Westbrook despite that. Rose’s scoring and assist average per 36 minutes is also higher than Westbrook’s (24.0 ppg, 8.1 assists compared to 22.5 ppg and 7.9 assists for Westbrook).

Yes, Westbrook is the better defender, and a better free throw shooter than DRose. Rose is only shooting 74% from the FT line compared to the outstanding 90% that Westbrook is shooting. If Rose can get his FT% up to and over 80%, and there’s no reason to believe he won’t, his TS% will be that much better. As it is, Westbrook has a 55.8 TS% compared to 54.6% for Rose. Rose has a much better eFG% than Westbrook, 51.1% compared to 44.4% for Westbrook.

As you point out, Rose isn’t in the category of Chris Paul yet; but in another two or three years I believe he will be, as long as he keeps improving and stays consistent.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Nov 23, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Durant's been (relatively) crap, though

Westbrook doing his thing despite Durant dropping back to earth. Rose gets his numbers because he uses a lot of possessions, as I said – only Kobe’s more of a ballhog in the entire league than him of guys getting big minutes. Although Westbrook’s up there as well.

He’s getting better at passing, sure, but he’s always going to be compared to Chris Paul and Deron Williams at the position, and right now he’s a worse defender, worse playmaker and less efficient scorer than either of those guys. He’s putting up similar stats to Westbrook, sure, but without the defense, and by using more possessions. And OK, he has a higher FG% but Westbrook swings that right back by getting to the line and converting – Westbrook’s TS% is significantly higher.

You could argue that right now Noah’s more important to the Bulls than Rose, but nobody on the Thunder is playing better than Westbrook.

Bottom line – I don’t rate him on the level of Williams and Paul. I don’t rate Westbrook on the level of those two guys either, mind. It’s hard to be the MVP when you’re not even close to the best player at your position. I don’t think he’s ever going to be the playmaker those two are – you either see the court like they do or you don’t; Rose doesn’t – so unless he pulls an Iverson style scoring season out from somewhere (possible if he keeps improving his three ball, but he’s already dominating the ball as much as he realistically can and he just doesn’t seem to like going inside and getting contact, so I’d say the chances aren’t high he explodes for a 30 PPG season) I just don’t see him reaching the level of those guys.

Amazing fun to watch, but not an MVP.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 24, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions  

You could not argue Noah is more important than rose.

Have you watched a bulls game? Here’s how it goes- Derrick rose gets the ball- then he dribbles to any place he feels like while getting doubled and either makes the pass that turns into the assist, gets the assist himself, or scores. Whether its the most efficient offense that could be run in the nba isn’t the question- its what Chicago has. And Derrick Rose is doing it, he’s much better than Westbrook offensively. Westbrook isn’t the only offensive focus of his team, no one is going to make a “jordan rules” for westbrook. If you play the bulls this playoffs, you better have something similar for rose.

I don’t think rose is anywhere near mvp either, but its because of Gasol, Howard and Paul.

by David Polega on Nov 24, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Rose really did a great job breaking down the Lakers' defense Tuesday night

I don’t understand how anyone can say that Rose doesn’t like going inside and drawing contact. Against the Lakers, he was able to dribble down the lane on many possessions through the Lakers’ defense and the Lakers were helpless to stop him, and he either laid the ball in or passed the ball off. Heck, on one play, Rose even drove down the lane and laid the ball in over Pau Gasol, who didn’t even try to jump to block the shot because he didn’t want to be “posterized” by DRose.

David, you make some really good points regarding Rose, especially when you compared him to Westbrook and said that Westbrook isn’t the only offensive focus on his team, because other teams are so wary of Durant, even though Durant isn’t having a good shooting year so far. Rose often gets double teamed by the opposition because he is so dangerous, while none of the other Bulls’ players warrant a double team. How often does Westbrook get doubled by the opposition?

I really like Joakim Noah as a player and he is an important player for the Bulls (the Bulls wisely signed Noah to a contract extension and will not include him in any trade), but there is no way in heck he is more important to the Bulls than Rose. When the Magic play the Bulls next week, as a Magic fan, I’m going to be far more concerned about the Nelson/Rose matchup at PG than I am about the Howard/Noah matchup.

It’ll be interesting to see how Rose can play with Carlos Boozer when Boozer makes his season debut from his broken thumb in a week or two, because Boozer is such a strong pick-and-roll player. It should make Rose even better as a playmaker, and opposing defenders won’t be so quick to double on Rose as they are now because Boozer is such a threat down low.

Eltharion, you’re a pretty smart guy and I respect your opinion about Westbrook; there’s no question he’s having an outstanding year and he has some statistics on his side that are better than DRose, but I still believe Rose is the better player with the stats that are on his side that I’ve cited in my previous posts.

Rose and Westbrook are nearly identical in age, 22 years old, separated by only a month. They both will be very exciting to watch for the next 10-15 years.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Nov 24, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think their main motivation to draft boozer was watching team usa ride the rose/durant pick and roll all the way through the tournament.

Obviously they can’t get durant, but the next most consistent scorer like that is carlos boozer- who can probably set a much better screen than durant anyway so it might make up for the offensive gap.

They’ll be a fun team to watch and are my pick to face the magic in the east, before the magic meet the spurs in the finals. Hopefully we don’t hit chicago sooner cuz the later in playoffs we are the more wore down rose will be.

by David Polega on Nov 24, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

While I’d agree we’ll take the bulls, it won’t be that simple. Rose will draw fouls on howard, Noah will play frustrating D on Howard and fight him for every rebound, and I don’t know if you noticed- he’s making alot of jump shots this year.

This completely ignores boozer and deng as well.

I"m excited, can’t wait till playoffs I’m foaming over it.

by David Polega on Nov 25, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm really looking forward to the game next week

That will be a really tough test for the Magic on the road, and I’m anxious to see how they will try to control Rose. Carlos Boozer may try to make his season debut also then, depending on how his thumb feels in the next few days.

"Bear Down, Chicago Bears"...
Chicago Blackhawks... 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Champions
Orlando Magic... 2009 NBA Eastern Conference Champions

by Mike from Illinois on Nov 25, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

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