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Some Trade Thoughts

Ok, so I gathered some trade thoughts and ideas below. It's a bit long, but I've bolded the trade targets and put them all in separate paragraphs. I hope you enjoy reading them and have some thoughts to share like which ones you liked, disliked, which ones could be improved, etc. 

Star-divide

  • "That Missing Defensive Swing Man/Glue Guy" 

According to an ESPN article by Chad Ford, 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100121

Shane Battier is rumored available for the right price, and it is assumed, by Ford and others, the Rockets are after a big man. Let's make the oh so obvious connection here now that we've all already made a billion times hehe. Gortat for Battier.

Now we know they want Gortat. GM Morey and the Rockets organization set up the email account for Rockets fans to email Gortat over the summer to help him convince to sign with Houston. We know Gortat signed with Dallas since then, the Magic matched the offer and kept him, and Gortat got unhappy over play time,

http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2009/12/3/1184733/schmitz-orlando-magic-center

declined a bit in advanced stats,

http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2009/11/25/1173292/whats-wrong-with-marcin-gortat

and while I think Gortat's unhappy situation has really affected him, he has had many moments and games reminding us he is still a high efficiency big man, and I believe he is rebounding from his poor start to the season,

http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2009/12/10/1194142/tracking-hustle-plays-in-the

Gortat's 1st year BYC rules complicate a trade and the Magic would like to utilize him for another playoffs push this year. After that, the Magic are widely assumed to look to deal him this summer because it's unrealistic to pay MLE money to a backup of Dwight. So I can't realistically think of many players that provide defense, leadership, toughness, and three's like Shane Battier. I'm already liking the idea of seeing him and Matt Barnes out there hustling 110% together. I don't like going from young to old in trades, but I have my exceptions (like here), and in my opinion, it would give Orlando the edge in trade power to ask for more like getting Chuck Hayes and a future pick also.

The Trade: 

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg8ww5w

1) Part of Turk TPE

for

Chuck Hayes 

2) Anthony Johnson*, Adonal Foyle* (consent needed) or some Free Agent on a minimum deal, Marcin Gortat

for

Shane Battier, Future first round pick 

*: AJ must be bought out so he can go back to Orlando, Foyle must be waived (HOU may do this anyways) so he can go back to Orlando.

Chuck Hayes doesn't have the physique of the tall Marcin Gortat, but he is active and scrappy, rebounds and defends well enough for the minutes he would get behind Dwight. A future, first round pick is always very nice. And the main piece, Battier, will do wonders for our defensive deficient Magic backcourt, fits in with his 3's and high character, and could possibly really improve the team chemistry.  

 

  • "Pullin' an OKC in New Orleans" 

Unfortunately for every team in the league (outside of New Orleans), Chris Paul is as untradeable and untouchable as they come. Fo'get about it, build a FA plan around him 3-4 years from now is about all anyone can hope for. Instead, what could possibly be of big interest to Orlando here is not Chris Paul, but his understudy, the lightning quick Darren Collison.

Before I get to the trade I want to talk about something else because I took what happened there and copied it in making this trade idea.

The Oklahoma City Thunder pulled off a great trade earlier this season. The Jazz agreed to trade Matt Harping and their excellent rookie PG Eric Maynor to the Thunder. The Thunder didn't need to match the salaries of Harpring and Maynor because they had the salary cap room to absorb them. They only sent the draft rights of a player overseas to the Jazz. A bit one-sided and with money in mind (like many trades today), the Jazz did it because they were extremely deep in luxury tax and were able to dump Harpring's 6.5 million contract to save a ton of money. Maynor was playing well for the Jazz, but the Jazz knew Deron Williams is the PG of the future and will always play big minutes every night so Maynor would only do so much for the Jazz in his small backup role. Maybe the Magic can do something eerily similar to this with the Hornets.

The Trade: 

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yk5mr9a

1) Turk TPE

for

Morris Peterson

2)  Anthony Johnson 

for

Darren Collison

The Hornets are closer to getting under the tax line than the Jazz, but would love to dump Peterson's contract which is even worse than Matt Harpring's contract. Peterson is due 5.8 million this year AND 6.2 million next year. The Turk TPE allows the Magic to take on Peterson for huge immediate and next year cap relief to the Hornets. The Hornets then acquire AJ at his 2 million expiring contract and could even attempt a buyout with AJ if he wants to play for someone else. Peterson is likely buried on the bench if he theoretically played for the Magic, but depth is always nice. 

The Magic really cover up their PG spot now and in the future with this move. This is a rookie who did very well when Chris Paul was out from an injury for about 3 weeks or so. He is a really quick guard who uses his speed to get anywhere on the floor to score and pass from. He has a great understanding of the game and has been rated as a good defender by David Thorpe from ESPN. He hasn't had a good 3P% during his rookie season, but he shot 52% from 3-land in college and shot the 3's well when he was starting. If he came to Orlando he would be an excellent backup PG for now, but he may be able to easily wrestle the starting job from Jameer Nelson soon if Nelson can't consistently deliver and Collison can keep improving and developing with the team (Dwight, Ryan, etc. etc.).

 

  • "Welcome Back!" 

New Jersey has a pretty bare bones team. There's only a few good starters and role players. They are aiming towards the 2010 FA Summer for salvation, but addressing one of their weakest spots right now could really help them play better for the rest of the season and look more attractive to FA's in the summer.

I don't know if the Nets have any interest in Brandon Bass, but they have no good big men outside of Brook and maybe Yi. I reason they would love to do this deal. The frontcourt rotation is horrible. Humphries, Battie, and Boone have not played well enough and are all likely gone this summer as they are all expiring contracts. Brandon Bass is much better than all three of those guys, and even Yi in my own opinion. Bass brings toughness, a hard worker ethic, and a lot of highly efficient offense. The Nets will address their weak frontcourt, Brook will have some big help finally, and Bass' offense will be greatly, greatly loved in the worst offensively rated team in the league, which should in turn relieve the pressure for the other players who must score. 

The Trade: 

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfpnss6

1)  Brandon Bass

for 

Trenton Hassell

2) Part of Turk TPE

for

Courtney Lee

It's very rare to re-trade a young player less than a full season into his new team, making this trade idea all the more unlikely. But NJ and Orlando could theoretically want this deal done.

For the Nets; in the NBA, quality big men are more valued than guards, especially when they are shooting 39% from the floor like CLee in what was supposed to be a better offensive season for him. Moving Hassell and Lee for Bass saves about 1.5 million this year for the Nets, and because they are still cost-cutting everything in the organization the Nets would like this. 

For the Magic, it's as simple as Rashard and Ryan. Two very good stretch forwards who make Bass only a situational player. SVG would've tried Rashard at SF by now with that monster slump going on, so I'm basically sure it will never happen and Bass will remain situational for a long time. It's tough to lose a big man for a guard, but the Magic already know how effective CLee can be for the team and that his defense and play within the system is great. He seemed to have a lot of potential within Orlando's system, as he started showing it in the 76ers playoffs series last season. Lee is still on a rookie scale contract which is huge, and incase JJ leaves for whatever reason as he is expiring this year. Picks and cash can be thrown around to accommodate the side that feels it deserves more, which could be Orlando potentially. 

 

  • "Getting in on the Mayhem"

Many sources have said the 76ers would like to move Samuel Dalembert and Elton Brand. Both have horrendous contracts, would give the 76ers huge cap relief/room if traded, but no one wants to bite. The 76ers are playing for the lottery right now. There is reportedly growing desperation in Philly to trade even Andre Iguodala with Dalembert for major cap relief and cap room for the beginning of a rebuilding/transition period. Marc Stein reports such sentiments:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12467/nets-pulling-brakes-on-harris-trade-talk

This following trade idea is tough to do, I suspect Young is close to untouchable to Philly. But, no one has shown serious interest on taking Dalembert even with Iguodala included (or can accommodate such a trade because of how much cap relief contracts is needed) . The only team linked so far that I know are the Rockets, by trading Tracy McGrady, and his mega expiring deal, for Samuel Dalembert and Andre Iguodala. But supposedly the Rockets are not liking the cap space lost this summer, and even scoff at Iguodala's long term contract a little bit. This is where the Magic enter. 

 

  • The 3-Way Trade:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjf6t2m

1) Magic essentially trade; 

Brandon Bass and Marcin Gortat

for 

Thaddeus Young and Chuck Hayes

 

Rockets essentially trade; 

Tracy McGrady and Chuck Hayes

for 

Andre Iguodala, Marcin Gortat, and Samuel Dalembert

 

76ers essentially trade;

Samuel Dalembert, Andre Iguodala, and Thaddeus Young

for 

Tracy McGrady and Brandon Bass

In short, 76ers get huge cap relief and Brandon Bass, a young promising big man. I suspect they may want more from Orlando or Houston. Orlando can upgrade the offer by adding cash or picks. If they wanted more, Orlando can upgrade it hugely by making a separate trade for Jason Kapono (2 years left on ugly MLE- like contract) using the Turk TPE, AND add a somewhat similar but younger player in JJ Redick (thru the 3-way trade) who has an expiring deal where the 76ers can let expire or utilize bird rights after using up their cap space first. 

Rockets lose cap space, but Andre Iguodala is an All Star level player.. Magic trade them Gortat for Hayes which helps ease them on doing the 76ers deal. Dalembert and Gortat make a great center combo. Then Yao returns next season where Gortat plays behind Yao but still sees a lot of minutes because Yao will rest his body whenever possible, and Dalembert will become center insurance and a big expiring trade chip for the market.

Magic add Thaddeus Young. He's 21 years old and he has a really bright future. He's down a little bit in stats this year, at the tune of an impressive 14.1 PPG, 5.3 RPG, and 33 3PT%. He plays at SF, can defend well, has a great inside and attacking game, and can shoot from long range. He also played very solid in the Magic-76ers series including when he hit a game winner layup in one of the games. All at 21 yrs old, this is why I don't know if Philly will part easily with him. I suspect it could maybe theoretically take absorbing Kapono's 2 yr contract and giving up JJ. 


  • "Just Makes Sense"

Portland has gone through a ton of injuries everywhere. Their two centers, Oden and Przybilla are out for the season. They wanted to acquire Paul Millsap over the summer to strengthen the frontcourt, but Utah matched. Then according to Bass' agent, Portland was on his shortlist to sign with (which signifies good interest from both sides), but he signed with Orlando instead.

http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2009/7/8/942061/weve-narrowed-it-down-to-about-two

A lot of people have made some connections that Portland would love to still acquire Bass. The most sensible thing for them is to trade Outlaw as he is an expiring contract and Portland has a plethora of younger wing men already according to some, but if I were the Magic, I wouldn't budge at all unless I could also get Nicolas Batum and/or Jerryd Bayless. Rudy Fernandez is another favorite target, but I don't like him with the players Orlando already has. Bayless can be a great bench force and possibly the PG of the future, but I personally don't like his potential fit with the team very much either, and I highly doubt Portland trades both Bayless and Batum for just Bass. 

 

  • The Trade:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yk9etlx 

1)  Brandon Bass

for

Nicolas Batum and Travis Outlaw

Travis Outlaw can score well I believe, but I don't think he'd be used too much. He is an expiring deal tho if that is so. 

Nicolas Batum is the real prize. He can truly defend well, replacing what Courtney Lee did and being another defender to have out there with Mickael Pietrus. He has a good 3 point % and plays his role on offense well. His length, athleticism and age of 21 bode well for improving much more in the future too. 


Those above trade ideas I would do in a heartbeat honestly, as well as the trade idea I made a while back for Tayshaun Prince;

    http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2009/12/21/1210950/trade-idea-for-the-magic
    Three shorter trade thoughts.
  • After the season is over, Gortat is able to be traded to Dallas. Perhaps something along the lines of Eduardo Najera and Rodrigue Beaubois gets a deal done. Beaubois is an excellent PG prospect, and already showed some great promise earlier in the season with his speed and knack of the game. If Beaubois is too much, JJ Barea may be a good replacement idea. 
  • Kevin Martin and Rudy Gay are some potential trade targets that could be had down the line this season. Do one of them fit the Magic and could be had with the Magic's assets?
  • Craziest idea, but I was giving it a thought. Vince Carter for Rip Hamilton. A straight up version is obviously one-sided because VC is better and has a shorter contract, but Rip's contract ends with Dwight's and Rashard's and other Magic players, so it's not risking that cap space, and I suspect the Magic can command almost any other piece(s) without adding much more, if anything to the deal; anything from like Tayshaun Prince, Will Bynum, Austin Daye, their 2011 pick which should be a great lottery pick, etc. Rip is a pretty dang good player still, he has championship experience, and adding Prince would make for a very, very interesting starting lineup. Two starting players from the earlier Pistons team that always beat the Magic!

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

4 recs  |  Comment 20 comments

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interesting idea

i dont really think otis would trade during this season but if i were otis i would get batum and beaubois. by then we could get a young wing defender and a young pg with a lot of potential. i also like to see carter get traded for tmac so that we may get joe johnson this summer

next season our line up would include
pg: jameer,williams,beaubois
sg: johnson,pietrus
sf: barnes,batum
pf: lewis,ryan
c: d12

with jj,aj and foyle’s contract expiring then we may find a back up C

in OTIS we TRUST...

by Hbkid on Jan 22, 2010 8:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Even if we dump Carter and Gortat for T-Mac....

we go into the summer over the cap (with ~$55M in guaranteed contracts), which means no big free agents are coming here without a S&T.

"Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith *** "To me, call it what you want, it doesn’t matter. We’re just not playing well." ~Stan Van Gundy *** "A team that hasn't won a thing, littered with players who haven't won jack, giving us the self-satisfied routine. Uh-oh." ~Kelly Dwyer

by magicfaninTN on Jan 22, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At the VERY LEAST

these are fun as hell to read derekk. Keep on keepin’ on.

by fwedo on Jan 22, 2010 9:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Great work. REC'd for thoughtfulness and thoroughness.

I agree with fwedo….fun to read. All those options seem, in one way or another, to be reasonable moves.

I can’t see the 3-way (HOU/PHI/ORL) working with Houston taking Gortat and Dalembert with Yao coming back next year. And, you’re right, there would need to be more sweetener for PHI to give up all three of those pieces….young players or picks need to be piled on.

"Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith *** "To me, call it what you want, it doesn’t matter. We’re just not playing well." ~Stan Van Gundy *** "A team that hasn't won a thing, littered with players who haven't won jack, giving us the self-satisfied routine. Uh-oh." ~Kelly Dwyer

by magicfaninTN on Jan 22, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Houston would never in a million years acquire Dalembert.

He’s the last thing the Rockets need or want.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 22, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very good post and all great trade ideas except for that Sixers/Magic/Rockets trade. Rockets make out like bandits in that one and the Magic get shafted…Young and Hayes practically cancel out Gortat and Bass. Battier with the Magic would be nice though.

Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Jan 22, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Trading Gortat and Bass for Young and Hayes would make Orlando worse, actually.

As good of a defender Hayes is, Young is awful and wouldn’t help the Magic in any fashion, form, or shape.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 22, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Young is a very hit or miss player in people’s eyes. I see the potential for him to be a star, that’s why I made the idea. Iguodala is just as intriguing tho, and as complicated to acquire.

by derekk on Jan 22, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Young has any chance at being a star.

He’s done nothing in the NBA that would suggest that.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 23, 2010 3:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for all the kind thoughts. I was hoping it would at the very least be an interesting little read.

I try to make them all very sensible ideas, but the 3 way is deftly not gonna be one. I don’t know how accurate that Rockets/Sixers rumor is, and if the Magic would want to get in on it for Thaddeus Young, a player whose potential I really like.
I hope the post was a little thought provoking, because it made me realize a few things that I could see, however small the chance, of possibly happening. Like Magic’s TPE can really relieve some tax burden team. And there was a ton of good rookies this past draft, especially rookie PGs from everywhere in the draft, and one of them have already been traded. Then some more obvious ones to many of us, Portland has no big men, Battier is the kind of glue guy that can fit on pretty much every team. Prince too, but he’s not healthy enough yet. And so forth;
Any other plausible connections of rumors, team situations, and players we can come up with that could sensibly link the Magic to a possible deal, you should fanpost it or share it with me. I love reading them, I know MagicfaninTN already made some great trade ideas and I came up with thoughts for variant deals from him to add on to his originals.
These are mainly trades that enhance the current Magic tho, not help them make a trade package for Star Player X. So I see a ton of problems there as trading Gortat or Bass could make a possible trade package for Star X less attractive, I just have hope that the current Magic will turn it around very well.
Hbkid, I love how you think. Move Gortat for our PG of the future, Beaubois, and Bass for Batum. I would easily do those. Doing the Darren Collison deal loses absolutely no one but AJ, but it’s hella expensive. If I could trade Gortat first right now, for Battier and Hayes, then do the NO deal. We’d have Battier and Darren Collison, with Hayes backing Dwight. Also very nice, tho BOTH Beaubois and Batum have the youth going for them. We don’t know how much more Battier has, but he’s having a just fine season so far thru today.

by derekk on Jan 22, 2010 4:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I know Battier is the no-stat glue guy

but he is aging and does have a season PER of 10. But his leadership might be what the team needs….if it could be handled by the guys already here.

"Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith *** "To me, call it what you want, it doesn’t matter. We’re just not playing well." ~Stan Van Gundy *** "A team that hasn't won a thing, littered with players who haven't won jack, giving us the self-satisfied routine. Uh-oh." ~Kelly Dwyer

by magicfaninTN on Jan 22, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I applaud you taking the time to flesh out your thoughts, even though I don't agree with some of them.

But that’s okay, the discussion is what ultimately matters and clearly you’ve sparked some.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 22, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very well-thought out and written post

I have faith that Otis Smith will do whatever’s best for the Magic when he makes a trade.

"Orlando Magic... 2009 Eastern Conference Champions"

by Mike from Illinois on Jan 22, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Bass for Batum AND Outlaw? Kevin Pritchard would never do that deal.

As for Thaddeus Young, I’m just going to be frank, he sucks. Chuck Hayes would help the Magic, though (but Daryl Morey would never give him up, so it’s a moot point in wondering if he’s available because he’s not).

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 22, 2010 9:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I only said Outlaw because he seems the most tradeable piece and I needed to make the math work only. If Portland can sign a horrible player from the FA market for 1.6 million and then be allowed to trade him before the deadline with Batum, the math would then work.
I also think you’re over-valuing Hayes alot. Sure, he has good advanced stats, but he’s 6’6, 26 yrs old in his prime, and with Yao completely out and less defensive big men everywhere else on the roster, Hayes is only getting 22 minutes!! If the Magic are amenable to a big man in the FA market with Bass and Foyle to play those center minutes, they should also be ok if they really needed to take Hayes out of the deal to make Houston agree. Plus, I bet Houston should really be adding a pick for the 1st round.
I love the idea of losing only AJ for Darren Collison. But there’s two big if’s, if NO is desperate enough, and if Orlando is rich enough.

by derekk on Jan 22, 2010 11:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

When I say Hayes is a good defender, I meant that more as what he can do given his size.

I don’t think the Hornets would give up Collison for Johnson.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 23, 2010 3:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I want to update that the Hornets made like 3 more trades and are now under the tax line. But none of their deals involved dumping Peterson, now one of their worst contracts. Also, Hornets had interest in signing Bass this summer, obviously being unsuccessful, and Collison has dropped 32 assists in two games so far with CP3 injured/out, tho the system is alil bit favored for the PG to rack up dimes I suspect. I would easily trade for this guy right now if I were Otis!

by derekk on Feb 2, 2010 12:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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