Los Angeles Lakers 98, Orlando Magic 92
The Orlando Magic played excellent ball for long stretches tonight against the Los Angeles Lakers, battling back from a 13-point deficit only to allow the Lakers to score the first 15 points of the fourth quarter, and ultimately lost their third straight game by a score of 98-92. Dwight Howard shone in one of his best offensive performances of the season, scoring 24 points on 10-of-14 shooting with a mix of hooks, dunks, and even two surprising bank-shots. However, he managed just 2 field goal attempts in the second half as L.A. began double-teaming him, forcing him to become a playmaker. Rashard Lewis was the only other Magic player able to work himself into a rhythm, scoring 18 points on 11 shots. Meanwhile, the Lakers' reserve backcourt of Jordan Farmar and Shannon Brown ignited their comeback, with Brown leading the Lakers with a career-best 22 points. Reserve do-everything forward Lamar Odom pitched in with 9 points, a game-high 16 rebounds (6 offensive), and 5 assists. Orlando can console itself only with the knowledge that it showed flashes of championship-caliber defense. The Magic reach this season's halfway point 7 games off last season's pace and a half-game back of Atlanta for the Southeast Division lead.
| Team | Pace | Efficiency | eFG% | FT Rate | OReb% | TO Rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Magic | 89 | 103.5 | 50.6% | 11.0 | 20.9 | 14.6 |
| Lakers | 92 | 106.7 | 46.1% | 18.0 | 22.2 | 7.6 |
| Green denotes a stat better than the team's season average; red denotes a stat worse than the team's season average. | ||||||
After the game, Magic coach Stan Van Gundy had mixed feelings; John Denton of OrlandoMagic.com transcribed some of his comments here. He praised his team's resiliency in the first half, noting that his players had not demonstrated it recently. Facing a 13-point deficit against the defending champions, on the road, allowing three three-pointers in the game's first 7 minutes? Let's be serious for a moment: based on the Magic's play of late, you thought L.A. had already put the game away, hadn't you? Instead, Orlando rattled off a 7-0 run and closed the quarter trailing by only 8 points. Progress.
That momentum carried into the second and third periods, when Orlando played exceptional defense and wrested the lead from L.A. Howard keyed the second-quarter rally with 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting, with Ryan Anderson tossing in back-to-back treys to bring Orlando to within 5 at halftime. It's instructive to note that Howard did his damage against single-coverage... the very same coverage with which L.A. stymied him in last year's Finals. Again, progress.
But as Van Gundy said--going back to my earlier remark about mixed feelings--"it's not a very good feeling" when your team plays better than it has in a while and still comes up on the losing end. As was the case against Detroit in early November, Orlando could not counter its opponent's stable of small, quick, shoot-first guards. The Magic held Kobe Bryant to 11 points on 4-of-19 shooting--though he is, again, dealing with finger issues that have tanked his shooting touch--yet could not handle Brown or Farmar. And with Lakers coach Phil Jackson adjusting his defense of Howard at halftime, sending double-teams at him to force Orlando's other players to score, the Magic lost their most reliable offensive weapon. Just two second-half shot attempts for Howard, none until the 4:01 mark of the final period, and one of those attempts was a tip-in. Van Gundy said that, based on assistant coach Patrick Ewing's notes, Howard got "10 or 12" low-post touches in the second half, "which is a lot." He just couldn't get anything going against the double-teams. Part of that is L.A.'s defense, and part of that is an impatient Orlando offense, as I'll explain in a bit. Remember that Howard, as a center, cannot create offense for himself in the same way Bryant, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, or other perimeter-oriented stars can. He needs his teammates to deliver him the ball in position. Criticism of Howard for failing to establish position has been warranted at some times this year. Tonight isn't such an occasion, though.
Lewis stepped up after halftime with 11 points on 4-of-5 shooting to lead Orlando's run in the third period, which coincided with the Magic's best defensive stands of the season at the other end. In the third, the Lakers missed 17 of their 22 shots and scored 12 points, outscoring Lewis himself by the slimmest of margins. They also committed 2 shot-clock violations against a Magic team that took away all their offensive options.
The fourth quarter meltdown--and I don't want to take anything away from the Lakers here--was mostly self-inflicted. With a 5-point lead, the Magic were content to shoot three-pointers and ignore Howard on the inside. A more measured, patient approach would have, at the very least, eaten away at the game clock, which is a plus when holding a lead. Here's how the Magic's possessions went while L.A. went on its decisive, 15-0 run:
shot-clock violation as Jason Williams dished to Mickael Pietrus for a three-pointer too late;
missed Anderson transition three-pointer;
missed Williams three-pointer;
Anderson bad-pass turnover;
missed Anderson transition three-pointer
Howard offensive foul turnover as he pushed Pau Gasol making his move inside from the right block (Howard's lone turnover of the game);
missed Jameer Nelson layup;
Nelson bad-pass turnover;
Matt Barnes bad-pass turnover;
missed Lewis jumper;
You can see the Magic starting to get the right idea later in that sequence, with Howard's offensive foul and Nelson's missed layup indicative of a more aggressive approach. But really, Williams and Anderson's misfires in transition took Orlando out of the game and helped the Lakers' small guards push the tempo. The bad passes did, too. It was a perfect storm of factors that more-or-less decided the game.
I know Nelson doesn't come out looking too great in that play-by-play above, and he registered more shot attempts (14) than points (13) tonight, but this loss is hardly on his shoulders. For the most part, he made the right decisions, and he drove the ball aggressively too. He demonstrated the right mix of perimeter and interior shooting, and this sort of effort is what the Magic hope to see out of him going forward. They'd also like to see him draw fouls, as he didn't attempt a single free throw on Orlando's four-game road trip. Truthfully, though, some of the drives he made tonight would have resulted in free throws with a different officiating crew. That's not a criticism of the referees, who let both teams play fairly physically and called what was, in my opinion, a fair, consistent game.
Vince Carter continues to struggle. In his second game back from a mild left shoulder separation, he missed 8 of his 11 shots, and attempted 8 three-pointers. It's clear that the aching shoulder has made him think twice about going to the basket, where he might draw contact. And he did aggravate the shoulder injury trying to defend Ron Artest in the low post when Artest turned to face-up and banged into it. He's just not right, as has been the case for the last two months. If you're looking for positives, his 3-for-8 performance from long range made him 20-of-81 since December. He's approaching 25%! (Sorry. The snark eases the frustration.)
Orlando returns home for its next 2 games, but the schedule doesn't ease up. Likely lottery teams Indiana and Sacramento have played the Magic tough this year, and they're due to visit Amway Arena. After that? Visits to streaking Charlotte and Memphis, which are on concurrent 8-game home winning streaks. Then it's back to Orlando for games against Boston and Atlanta, which currently lead the Magic in the standings. That's... well, I don't know about "brutal," but the word "unkind" comes to mind. The Magic might be able to build off this game--Lewis said as much in the previously linked Denton story--but if they intend to, they'll have to do it in a hurry. The season's half over, and they need to hit their stride, lest they wind up choking on more of the dust Cleveland, Boston, and Atlanta have kicked up in the Eastern Conference race.
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83 comments
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Comments
VC should rest
His injuries(ankle and shoulder) are really bothering him..Stan should activate him after the all star break so that he will be back 100%..hi to OPP (im just new here), to Ben and E, my favorite writers..Hope these magic team would make it despite of all the chemistry struggles..GO MAGIC!
These magic team will be insane this postseason..believe me..
by jvictoria on Jan 19, 2010 4:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He should work at his athleticism AND LOSING FAT
He’s skinny fat right now. His body composition is basically fat + some muscle that he STILL HAS + great body structure for athleticism. He needs to work at getting muscle back on his body because he lost a lot and he is zombie-ing on the court.
AND YES, I know he doesn’t “look fat” but just trust me on this one.
by Raptorel on Jan 19, 2010 7:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
got it right..
eventhough im a carter fan, i noticed it since when he was in jersey that he had a hard time of running up and down in the court..when he was in toronto he was injury prone because he was always driving inside the paint and taking body shots, but when he was traded to jersey he changed his game to a perimeter type of player where he shoot alot of jumpshots instead of driving the ball in the paint..the good thing about that was he didnt miss many games because of injuries..i think vc lacks good conditioning and i hope he could completely recover from his injuries
These magic team will be insane this postseason..believe me..
by jvictoria on Jan 19, 2010 7:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah absolutely
I’m not sure if he can back right now… he doesn’t really care about that and nobody is there on his ears to tell him this.
He needs to get his strength up and go there in transition. His shot might also be affected by the loss of leg strength/overall strength.
by Raptorel on Jan 19, 2010 7:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Send Carter to Chicago to visit with Tim Grover until after the All-Star break.
"We'll figure it out. The sky's not falling." 'Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith
by magicfaninTN on Jan 19, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*err, the city of Chicago, not the team
unless the Bulls are willing to take him. :-)
"We'll figure it out. The sky's not falling." 'Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith
by magicfaninTN on Jan 19, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome! Glad to have you aboard.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crap.

"Swimming is not a sport. Swimming is a way to keep from drowning. That’s just common sense! "-George Carlin
by Diosnomeama on Jan 19, 2010 6:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't really feel that bad after seeing the Magic lose.
Because I feel that we played some great basketball against a very tough team. The Lakers’ defense was just suffocating. Especially in the first half, they forced us to play a different game than we’re used to — driving much more on the baseline, moving the ball around, getting Dwight to post up. And we were pretty successful at all of those things.
We fell behind big a couple of times but clawed our way back. We played with heart and hustle tonight. A 98-92 loss against this Lakers team, after having failed to show up against teams like the Pacers, is not the end of the world. We’ll regroup and hopefully use this as fuel for the fire.
by Zach Attack on Jan 19, 2010 7:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Los Angeles is 1st in defensive efficiency, for what it's worth.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm tired of defending VC
dude is washed up.
by Snyde on Jan 19, 2010 8:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I am slowing starting to hitch my wagon to this horse
I thought Vc would be instant upgrade…
"Memphis then used a pick-and-roll to get Conley free and he drove past Shaquille O'Neal for the go-ahead layup."
by BS Patrol on Jan 19, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Slowing=Slowly
Geesh
"Memphis then used a pick-and-roll to get Conley free and he drove past Shaquille O'Neal for the go-ahead layup."
by BS Patrol on Jan 19, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he looks done
I’m a Charger fan and it sucks watching one of your favorite players just get old and not effective anymore (LT). But as I watch Vince(Wince?), he just seems old and out of shape.
Did you Fisher blow right past him? Yeesh!
LT Style, Electric Glide
"It's all part of the plan." Jeff Moorad and The Joker in the Dark Knight.
"Just because you went to the Finals last year, you can’t go out on the floor and expect teams to lay down. We got no heart. You can only make so many excuses. Everybody has to come and play hard, not just one or two guys."-Matt Barnes
by L Magico on Jan 19, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and can someone explain to me why Stan refuses to play Bass against teams with size?
as i’m watching the lakers get 9 shot attempts on one possession because the only person on the floor for us that can pull down a board is dwight…i just wonder why in the hell we signed this guy? i mean, isnt that exact scenario supposed to be the reason we brought him in? its puzzling.
by Snyde on Jan 19, 2010 8:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
and
putting in bass would limit our guards to jack up forced 3s and feed it inside dwight.
by zakchi on Jan 19, 2010 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that stretch in the 4th quarter where we completely abandoned dwight had my blood pressure skyrocketing.
by Snyde on Jan 19, 2010 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel your pain...
The game started at 7:30 AM where I live…So instead of watching it at home, I was at work checking out the live play by play online…..
Watching that 4th quarter boxscore slowly grow to 15 – 0 without having the luxury of screaming “WTF is going on!!” was agonizing…..
Fact: I have never met a Magic player, cheerleader or fan in person...
by El-Samawaal on Jan 19, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
5:30 AM for me
Luckily, I decided to view the replay of the game in mid-day…
by Raptorel on Jan 19, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Playing Bass
would also serve to clog up the middle by allowing the Lakers to have a second man stay closer to Dwight at all times without fear of the 3 ball.
by Worthy J. on Jan 19, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In other words, it'd be a detriment for the Magic.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I'd go that far
since I haven’t seen Bass play alongside Dwight very much at all (and I don’t think anyone else has either given his miniscule playing time) but I can see the reasons why SVG wouldn’t play Bass in this case.
I do remember Bass having a few good games against the Lakers when he was with Dallas but that was in years past. Ironically, the best game plan against the Lakers used to be a quick scoring point guard + 3 point shooting big men to pull Bynum and Gasol from the paint (which is a big reason why Orlando won both regular season games last year and was my most feared opponent for the playoffs) but the Finals last year seems to have given the Lakers the experience to defend (relatively) effectively against the combination.
by Worthy J. on Jan 19, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the Magic didn't have that quick scoring point guard.
Since Jameer was a shell of the player he was in the two games in the regular season. Even still, the series was a lot closer than the 4-1 margin of victory would indicate. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in May and June this year.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's on the assumption
that the Magic will get there.
by altree on Jan 19, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't even talking about the Magic necessarily making things interesting.
I’m just saying things will be interesting in general. Right now, May and June is the LAST thing on my mind for this team.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Bass isn't a good defender or rebounder.
In fact, Anderson is better than him on both those aspects.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm too frustrated to go in-depth.
I guess here are a few quick hits:
-The Magic amaze me in their ability to go away from what works so quickly. Whether it be getting Dwight the ball or penetration leading to ball movement, it seems as soon as they find something that is effective, they do something else.
-I don’t think Stan is pushing the right buttons right now, whether it be the rotation or the attitude of the team.
-Vince… shakes head
-Jameer and Rashard are at least being more aggressive. Dwight was showing a lot in the first half, but I think at some point in the 2nd half, he needed to have a moment where he was yelling at teammates to get him the ball in the huddle.
-CJ Miles, Jared Dudley, Roy Hibbert, Shannon Brown. Those are a few guys with season or career highs against the Magic this year. I might be missing more. Honestly, what is going on?
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 9:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
good thoughts
I really only have 2 criticisms of Stan, otherwise, I think he’s doing the best with what he’s got.
One, he keeps giving Carter too much floor time when he’s hurt. This game showed Vince needs to sit until he’s well. I’m kind of glad he wasn’t able to pull out the game with wild 30ft 3s at the end ‘cause then the rest of the night’s poor performance would have been overlooked.
Second, he does not enforce getting the ball into Howard (rarely does Stan yank a player for stuff like that). It is like he’s letting the players figure it out by themselves instead of forcing it on them and maybe in the long run that will be more valuable.
And reinforced from last night’s game—-quick point guard penetration continues to be a problem. Not sure we can do much about it without a change in personnel.
"We'll figure it out. The sky's not falling." 'Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith
by magicfaninTN on Jan 19, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, we were roasted by the guards.
Although I felt that the quickness was more of a factor for the Lakers’ D putting pressure during that run. For the most part, it seemed that Brown and Farmar’s damage offensively was done by just hitting open jumpers. Why the pick and roll defense was leaving them wide open, I dunno, but they just had wide open shots.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This whole meme about Nelson being a bad defender is confusing.
His defensive rating for this year has been very, very good.
by Zach Attack on Jan 19, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Williams was killed by the backups mostly.
Nelson had a few shots buried over him, but he at least contested on most. He’s not a great defender, but as he gets quicker, his numbers should get better.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nelson is shorter than J-Will.
We’ll take some made shots here and there. The bigger problem is that Williams is old and creaky and can’t keep up with the quicker guards.
My issue with Nelson has to do with him sometimes getting off-balance and out of control when he faces really quick defenders like the Lakers were last night.
by Zach Attack on Jan 19, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jameer's numbers are getting better.
adjusted defensive plus/minus: +0.03
opponent PER: 18.2
net defensive plus/minus: +0.04
opponent eFG%: 48.3%
Remember, plus is bad. Minus is good.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Defensive Rating is a deceiving and inaccurate statistic to look at.
Defensive adjusted plus/minus, opponent PER, net defensive plus/minus, opponent eFG% are better metrics to look at when determining who’s good or bad on defense. Granted, those statistics aren’t perfect but they do a better job of capturing defensive play than Defensive Rating.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will not comment about last night's game.
I think we stand a good chance at beating Indiana tomorrow. Thoughts?
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
by KingJafi on Jan 19, 2010 10:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
We really could use the win for morale.
Either a blow-out palate cleanser or a grind-it-out, play-from-behind win would be great for this team….each for different reasons.
"We'll figure it out. The sky's not falling." 'Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith
by magicfaninTN on Jan 19, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a guarantee, by any means.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if Hibbert allows it..
still a fresh memory of how he dominated dwight. Hope it wont happen again.
by zakchi on Jan 19, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When the Lakers went on that insane run early in the fourth, I had to mute the game
I got sick of Doug Collins giving constant updates on how long the Lakers were on their run. Oddly, I became a lot calmer while watching the game and stopped yelling at the tv. I might start watching all of the games on mute now to maintain sanity (at least until the Magic finally figure out how to truly get out of this funk).
I just keep telling myself that this is a growing experience for the team that will only make them stronger towards the end of the season and playoffs.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
by funny80sguy on Jan 19, 2010 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
im starting to run out of excuses.
vince needs to be benched immediately. i swear all he does is come in, dominate the ball, and absolutely demolish any semblance of flow with his inexcusable shot-selection. the guy is garbage.
by Snyde on Jan 19, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
im just hoping its more an injury issue than a "dude had the most drastic drop-off from age 32 to 33 in league history".
because sadly, its looking like the latter.
by Snyde on Jan 19, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, Vince was obviously hurt last night, and had an elite defender like Ron Artest making life difficult for him.
I agree that VC needs to get it together immediately, though.
by Zach Attack on Jan 19, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't look any different than when he had other people on him the past month or so.
He missed a lot of open shots that Jameer got for him or shots he just forced without any rhythm. If not for those desperation heaves at the end, he would’ve been 1-9.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly.
at what point do we stop chalking up the 1-9’s to “but he’s hurt”? he gets “hurt” at every tiny instance of contact. and last i checked, since when does being hurt result in you taking out of rhythm, contested, and just downright horrible shots every time you get the ball? if he’s hurt, bench his ass until he’s better because what i’m watching is straight garbage.
by Snyde on Jan 19, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Carter has been having a bad season for his standards.
At some point, Van Gundy has to do what’s best for he team. I know it’s hard because Vince’s track record is impeccable, but at this point there needs to be a re-evaluation of his role.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I muted at exactly the same time.
It’s amazing what it does for your mental health!
by Stan in a Van (Down by the River) on Jan 19, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always watch Laker games on mute. No matter what.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
by KingJafi on Jan 19, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve actually been doing for years. I’d like to say since the 2000 Western Conference Finals. It is much easier on the mental sanity and doesn’t raise the stress level above what it should be at.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
by KingJafi on Jan 19, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We need to stop those quick pull up 3's
Those transition 3’s that were missed killed us.
by ggrant on Jan 19, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good game
just not good enough. The Lakers are the team to beat and Orlando couldn’t match their energy off the bench. They fought hard and Lewis and Nelson seemed ready to compete tonight, but the run in the 4th did us in.
I’m lovin Matt Barnes tho. High bball IQ and always active. But Vince? Man…
Will Petrie want to get rid of those high contracts and send us Martin and Nocioni for Vince and Bass?
LT Style, Electric Glide
"It's all part of the plan." Jeff Moorad and The Joker in the Dark Knight.
"Just because you went to the Finals last year, you can’t go out on the floor and expect teams to lay down. We got no heart. You can only make so many excuses. Everybody has to come and play hard, not just one or two guys."-Matt Barnes
by L Magico on Jan 19, 2010 1:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Barnes is playing great.
My only qualm is that I wish he would stop shooting 3’s all the time when we have Rashard and Vince on the floor.
by Zach Attack on Jan 19, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes is who teams will leave open with VC and Lewis on the floor.
I guess they do not pay attention to VC’s daily box scores.
by O-Town MagiCane on Jan 19, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt's percentages will continue to rise.
I don’t have an issue with him shooting threes since he doesn’t shoot a lot of them.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unlikely
I could see maybe Garcia , Nocioni and Beno, but no way (unfortunately) on the sharp-shooting, but fragile Martin. And those 3 would not be a good move for ORL.
"We'll figure it out. The sky's not falling." 'Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith
by magicfaninTN on Jan 19, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? Martin and Nocioni for Carter and Bass? Really? No offense, but Petrie isn't stupid.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really just throwing it out there
With Evans becoming so dominant, Martin is expendable. Throw in a 1st rounder and I think they consider it.
More appealing in the summer when they throw Gortat in there instead of Bass. Vince will have the expiring contract and they get a legit center. Hawes and Armstrong are not the answer.
LT Style, Electric Glide
"It's all part of the plan." Jeff Moorad and The Joker in the Dark Knight.
"Just because you went to the Finals last year, you can’t go out on the floor and expect teams to lay down. We got no heart. You can only make so many excuses. Everybody has to come and play hard, not just one or two guys."-Matt Barnes
by L Magico on Jan 19, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Should've gone to Nelson more.
And Dwight, probably — they weren’t forcing TOs from Dwight, and he was making his shots. But Nelson… it’s like they don’t remember last year. Nelson killed the Lakers last year when he was healthy. And he was effective this year, but… not enough shots.
Oh, well. Given the perilous state of the Magic at this point, a 6-point loss on the road is nothing to panic about. If we’re at 100% mentally, we win this game.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
by 3.3seconds on Jan 19, 2010 2:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
When Charles Barkley says Something
You know it’s blantantly obvious. Someone needs to fix this team’s mentality and think of the future rather than individual games.
Dwight needs to the ball to become dominant on the offensive end. And the Magic are not going to really win anything until Dwight is the focus of the offense.
Experience breads confidence. You can’t experience anything if you don’t get the chance, so in the words of Keyshawn Johnson, “Throw (Dwight) the damn ball.”
He's doing little shimmies. Jump hooks with the left hand, jump hooks with the right hand. - Brandon Roy on Greg Oden
by ECFIVESTER on Jan 19, 2010 2:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why does Dwight need to be the focus of the offense?
Just because he’s our best defender/rebounder doesn’t mean he needs to lead us in scoring — any more than you look at a guy who’s leading his team in scoring and say “this team won’t work until that guy is our best defender”.
Now, in this case, I agree Dwight could have used more shots. The Lakers were struggling to guard him. But you could say the same about Jameer or other players — they were getting high-percentage shots and should’ve had the ball more. And on another night, Dwight might NOT be the best choice.
It’s not a one-size-fits-all situation. That might work if you’re the Heat or the Cavs, where one guy is CLEARLY the most talented offensive player, and almost always the best option. But the Magic have a lot of guys, all of whom can post big numbers at any given time, but none of whom are the kind of huge-volume scorer you’re talking about. The Magic’s strength is flexibility, and they need to use that strength. Stop Dwyane Wade, and you stop the Heat. Stop Dwight Howard, and… Jameer kills you. Or Rashard. Or, heck, even Vince.
Of course, it’s not working like that at the moment. The rotation isn’t working like that, players aren’t getting their shots. But to insist that the Magic would somehow be a better team if we constantly forced shots for one guy is to ignore the nature of basketball and the talent levels on this team.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
by 3.3seconds on Jan 19, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still, Dwight Howard does need to be the focus of the offense.
Even if he doesn’t score, the offense should funnel through him to maximize the inside-out play that the Orlando Magic sometimes abandons. I agree, the Magic’s strength is its flexibility but Howard should be the focus; he’s the most efficient player on the team and it doesn’t make sense not to give him the ball (almost) every possession, despite his issues – at times – with free-throw shooting and turnovers.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most effective Scorer
Should always get the ball in scoring opportunities more than anyone else. It’s not like feeding the Dwight the ball more is going to take away massively from the other players on the team. Instead of missing long jumpers and threes, you’ll be taking higher precentage shots, from a proven effective scorer.
The logic is sound. But it will require the team to play as a team and always be looking for the best shot, with the highest percentage to score. Three pointers are a very low percentage. I’m not saying they should abandon the threes. Heck, that helps stretch the floor for Howard. What I am saying is that Dwight should be averaging somewhere around 15 to 16 shots per game, because that is 15 to 16 high percentage scoring opportunities, which is more effective.
Last year he averaged 14 a game, and we know where that got them. This year he’s hovering around 9. So yeah, get Dwight the ball, and yeah he should be the focal point on offense, and no I’m not saying your best defender has to be your best scorer too. What I am saying is your most effective scorer should be your highest scorer, and Dwight is the most effective scorer on the Magic.
He's doing little shimmies. Jump hooks with the left hand, jump hooks with the right hand. - Brandon Roy on Greg Oden
by ECFIVESTER on Jan 20, 2010 8:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with?
He's doing little shimmies. Jump hooks with the left hand, jump hooks with the right hand. - Brandon Roy on Greg Oden
by ECFIVESTER on Jan 20, 2010 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That Dwight needs the ball more.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad FINALLY some of you are starting to come around regarding Vincanity
I’m sorry to say though, it is NOT because he is “injured.” Vince is the type of player who loves EXCUSES. As long as he has an excuse for losing, he will lose without worry. This unfortunately, is the very definition of a loser. And that is what Vince is. He doesn’t have the heart, desire, work ethic to be a winner. Because to be a winner is very hard, not only on the body, but on the mind.
What has Vince shown throughout his career, and why did any of you think it would be different now? Vince Carter has been in the league for 12 years, he has only made the playoffs for 6 of those. He has NEVER made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs. The Nets went to the NBA finals 2 times in a row the year before Vince got there. From then on, they never made it anywhere. His “excuse” (or i should say his fan’s, or Magic fan’s excuse) is that his teams have been bad, he has never had a good big man, etc. I can go back and read all the excuses you guys were giving over the offseason, but that would be a waste of time since you guys KNOW the excuses. Go read the fanpost “is vince a loser” or something to that effect which was posted over the offseason.
No matter what excuses you guys gave him, the fact remains that he has never won. His teams were never a threat against the best. The reason he has never won is mental. Even though physically he was gifted with Kobe’s talent, mentally he is a retard. He doesn’t want to put himself on the line to be a winner. He doesn’t want the pressure which comes with being a winner. And he doesn’t want to put the work in that’s necessary to become a winner. This is even assuming he is honest enough with himself to understand what a winner is.
Even his game does not fit the MAgic. He is a volume shooter too lazy to play defense. You guys already have efficient shooters in Dwight Howard, and pre-vince (last year) in Rashard/Nelson. You HAD a player who could facilitate in Hedo.
Do I think the season is over for the Magic? No, i don’t. I still think that the Magic are the 2nd best team in the East behind Cleveland and ahead of Boston. I think the Magic MAY make it to the ECF. But this is in SPITE of Vince and not because of him. Vince is an upgrade over Hedo? Are you guys insane? Hedo would be an upgrade over Vince. But, even though i think you guys are 2nd in the East, i still think your chance at a championship is close to nil. You guys just don’t have the talent level to beat the Lakers or even the Cavs/Nuggets in a 7 game series.
by plyka on Jan 19, 2010 4:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The season isn't over, like you said.
As such, can’t give judgment on Vince Carter and the Orlando Magic until then. It’s convenient to say “I told you so” when the opinion is in your favor, but no one expected VC to play like he has this year. No one.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason Vince is having a bad year is his unforeseeable, inexplicable poor shooting. Unprecedented for him.
It has nothing to do with his attitude.
by Ben Q Rock on Jan 19, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure you can write a really basic program to respond, “You’re right,” to everything you say. I think that’s what you want.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I've been as down on Vince as anyone...
…but you’re wrong. You’re simply wrong about this. Vince was a relatively efficient shooter and a reliable distributor as recently as last season. He’s not incapable of playing smartly or making his shots. He just… hasn’t so far. He’s hogged the ball, and he’s taken low-percentage shots. But these are not things he’s consistently done throughout his career, at least not to the extent we’ve seen them so far this season. So there is demonstrably a chance for improvement.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
by 3.3seconds on Jan 19, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say the Magic have a superior overall talent to that of the Lakers
Starters + Bench for the Magic > Starters + Bench for the Lakers
Just my opinion.
If Vince can get over this slump (remember how he played against the Bucks this year… he looked great there (I’m aware it wasn’t the best defense in the world but you get the idea) … and as much as I know him… he CAN or has the POTENTIAL of unleashing unstoppable offensive prowess at times. Literally unstoppable because he can make circus and off-balance shots that defenders can’t do anything about. In fact, Iguodala said that Vince is the toughest player to guard in the NBA for exactly that reason.
The problem with Vince is that he lost a lot of athleticism and with that, the shooting touch got a little shaky, defenders can play him close on the shot because he’s not a slashing threat and so on.
If he’d work on his athleticism (PLEASE TELL ME SOMEONE WILL WORK WITH HIM ON THIS, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE) he’d get really good.
I really mean it – can someone that will interview him ask him about what he does to improve/maintain his athleticism? At least make him/the Magic organization think about this?
by Raptorel on Jan 19, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He looked great against Boston. Maybe the biggest reason we stayed in that game.
That was the last time he looked good though.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, then it's injury related
Let’s not forget the alley-oop windmill he did when he played in that alumni UNC game a few months ago
by Raptorel on Jan 19, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was not aware of that.
He hasn’t looked anything like that this year yet. Please please give us that Vince back.
by slickw143 on Jan 19, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
…you can always point to one or two games where a guy made a lot of shots… or one or two games where a guy missed a lot of shots. I wouldn’t say the Bucks game was a case of Carter getting better shots, it was a case of his low-percentage shots going in.
It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...
by 3.3seconds on Jan 19, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Vince's shot selection this year hasn't exactly been stellar.
Carter has had a knack for making difficult shots in the past but not so much, now, in the present.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A39cAGNIoks&feature=related
AND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2PUXGwNvGM&feature=related
It really sends shivers down my back so to speak…
by Raptorel on Jan 19, 2010 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
amazing..
i think he still have it..that’s why the magic need to rest him so that he could be back 100% and do those kind of things..i HOPE the slump and the ineffectiveness is due to those injuries
These magic team will be insane this postseason..believe me..
by jvictoria on Jan 19, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah when he injures himself
He gets into “auto-protection” mode… it’s like he’s made of glass.
Thing is – Vince is very confident in his shooting. That’s why he chucks up threes. He had several moments in which he’d gone like 6/6 or 7/7 from the three point line (see that game vs. Philadelphia from 2001 or the game vs. the Grizzlies where he made 9 3pt shots (but really started to shoot and miss in the second half, finishing 9/20)).
In a way, it’s good that he has that confidence for the clutch moments of the game. You can’t/mustn’t second-guess your shooting ability in clutch situations.
He’s just in a big slump decision/effort/shooting wise. Somebody from the Magic organization needs to shake him up.
by Raptorel on Jan 20, 2010 4:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to fathom...
Ben is right about Carter; everything was OK when he was shooting TONS of shots per game… AS LONG AS HE MADE THEM!
Like you said, the PROBLEM is he’s NOT making them… INEXPLICABLY!
If this is a fact, then Stan HAS to bench him… for his own good and the good of the Team.
Of course this brings ANOTHER problem; who to sub for him? Redick would be the OBVIOUS choice… except that he’s in a bit of a SLUMP himself!!! I know that the first two bad games, he was put in a bad spot as a starter (exactly the point), but he ALSO failed miserably coming from the bench on the Lakers game, JUST when we needed him the MOST!
The other choice is Pietrus… HARDLY more encouraging.
Right now I don’t know what the answer is…
What I DO know is…. we HAVE to START winning NOW, starting with the NEXT game home!
by manny55 on Jan 19, 2010 6:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Vince is not helping the Magic now
…even though I’m a big Carter fan, his poor offensive statistics don’t lie.
Carter’s best play against the Lakers was when he drove the lane, saw a few defenders there, and passed the ball to a wide-open Jameer for a three pointer, Carter’s only assist of the game. Why hasn’t VC been driving the lane more to create opportunities like that? I can only guess he doesn’t want to risk further injury to his shoulder, so he keeps attempting long outside shots, the great majority of which haven’t been going in.
I’m hoping as much as anyone that Vince can get his game turned around; but he can only get it turned around if he is healthy; first it was his ankle, now his shoulder. It’s a disservice to him and the team to have him playing right now with the way his shoulder is; he’s only hurting the team.
Right now, the Magic’s problems might begin with VC, but they certainly don’t end there. A healthy VC who can focus on driving the ball toward the basket causing other teams to foul and creating opportunities for other Magic teammates would go a long way in solving the Magic’s current offensive difficulties.
"Orlando Magic... 2009 Eastern Conference Champions"
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 19, 2010 7:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Problem is, unless Carter gets injured again, I doubt he sits and rests.
But you’re right, the numbers don’t lie. Vince isn’t playing very well and is being a detriment to Orlando.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking back, blame the bench. Blasting Carter might not be so appropriate.
You know if you look at the box score and the game flow (ie. popcornmachine.net), we lost this one from the bench. JWill (& the bench) looks like the goat more than Carter (who has been getting a lot of grief here, from me, too).
Yes, the game started bad for ORL and the Magic trailed at the half, but the 3rd quarter run was the starters. The 17-2 Laker run in the 4th was largely against the bench and it finally came to a halt when the full starting 5 for ORL returned to the floor, but by then they couldn’t recover and pull out a win, despite closing the game +5 (and maybe that lack of closing power was partly due to Carter on the floor to close the game).
The boxscore plus-minus supports this, too. As does Ben’s recounting of the offensive possessions for ORL when LA went on the run. Few TOs, but shots were not dropping (for Redick, Anderson, & JWill) and the ball was not going inside-out.
Maybe I’m missing something. Yes, Carter was stinking, but when he was in the game, ORL was winning. However, not saying he’s not the overall problem, but the lose to the Lakers might not be his fault.
Optimist "Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith
Pessimist "A team that hasn't won a thing, littered with players who haven't won jack, giving us the self-satisfied routine. Uh-oh." ~Kelly Dwyer
Realist: "To me, call it what you want, it doesn’t matter. We’re just not playing well." ~Stan Van Gundy
by magicfaninTN on Jan 20, 2010 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The bench did get outplayed, there's no doubt about it.
I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
by erivera7 on Jan 20, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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