Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Todd Haley Is The Steelers Next Offensive Coordinator

A Possible Role Reversal Between Vince Carter and J.J. Redick?

Orlando Pinstriped Post Photo / Bruce Maddox

After the Orlando Magic were able to snap a 4-game losing streak by defeating the Atlanta Hawks by the score of 113-81 on Saturday night, head coach Stan Van Gundy is considering moving Vince Carter to the bench so that he can become the team's sixth-man. The idea may seem odd, given that Carter - aside from a stint here and there as a reserve - has always been a starter in the NBA. But given that Carter has been mired in the worst shooting slump of his career, coupled with the fact that the Magic have struggled meshing its four All-Stars together in the starting lineup this season, Van Gundy is contemplating making a change. A change that may switch J.J. Redick's role from a reserve to a starter. If there's an opportunity to experiment with this type of move, the time is now. 

 

As has been mentioned before, Redick has been having a career-year with Orlando. By now, everyone should be aware that Redick has been a very efficient offensive player this season. But people may not realize that Redick is helping the Magic out in other areas on offense, too, ranking fifth on the team in assist percentage (12.9%) and first in turnover percentage (8.1%). In essence, Redick has done a good job of passing and taking care of the basketball. Because of this, Redick has become a bit of a playmaker on the offensive side of the ball. Perhaps the most noticeable evolution in Redick's game on offense these past few years is his ability to create (and score) off the dribble. Redick can no longer be strictly considered a spot-up shooter, even though that's ultimately his forte, because he's not. Redick is more than that. Can't forget about the intangibles, either, as Redick has been one of the few individuals for Orlando to give a consistent effort nearly every game. That's important. 

 

Likewise, Redick is no longer the defensive liability he used to be. This isn't to say that he's a great defender because he's not, and Redick admitted that to me after practice a while back, but he can hold his own. 

 

With Carter, his time back in Florida has been up and down so far. Carter has had his moments in a Magic uniform, where he's hit clutch baskets and stepped up in the fourth quarter when the team needed him to. But for the most part, Carter hasn't produced anywhere near the level that many expected he would before the year started. To further complicate matters, it appears that Carter has had a tad bit of an adverse affect on the offensive side of the ball on the other All-Stars (Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson) on the roster. Not a dramatic one, but enough where things have been thrown off-kitler just a smidgen. The distribution on offense among the Orlando starters isn't as balanced as it was this past season when Hedo Turkoglu was around. The difference is that Carter has dominated the basketball (as he always has in his career) and players like Howard, Lewis, and Nelson haven't been able to adjust quickly enough. Which is why Van Gundy is trying to find the right combination that will achieve the proper balance for the Magic.

 

2008-2009 FGA USG%
Dwight Howard 12.4 26.1
Rashard Lewis 13.8 22.0
Jameer Nelson 12.6 23.2
Hedo Turkoglu 13.3 23.0
2009-2010 FGA USG%
Vince Carter 15.2 28.1
Dwight Howard 9.0 22.5
Rashard Lewis 11.7 20.2
Jameer Nelson 11.0 22.2

 

If there's good news, it's that Carter has been fine on defense. 

 

So, is a Carter-for-Redick switcheroo the solution to Orlando's woes when its four All-Stars start together?

 

Click after the jump for the answer. 

 

Star-divide

Maybe. 

 

The issue isn't whether or not Redick is good enough to start, he is. The issue is whether or not Redick fits better with the starters than Carter. 

 

As has been mentioned before, the crux of the problem with Carter starting - at this point - is that he's taking shots away from Howard, Nelson, and Lewis. Offensively, this wouldn't be a problem if Carter was producing in an efficient manner but he hasn't. Exacerbating the problem is the fact that efficient scorers like Howard, Lewis, and Nelson (when he's playing up to his standards) aren't getting the basketball enough, which is hurting the team's productivity on offense since less efficiency is being replaced with more inefficiency. 

 

If Redick were to start, the issues on the offensive side of the ball probably won't exist. Redick's usage rate (17.4%) is considerably lower than Carter's (28.1%), which means that shots can be redistributed among Howard, Lewis, and Nelson. And as has been stated many times before, Redick is an efficient player so naturally the offense, as a whole, should become more efficient with his presence on the court. Also offensively, Redick doesn't need the ball in his hands like Carter, which allows Howard, Lewis, and Nelson more opportunities to be playmakers. To sum it up, the offense for Orlando could become a more balanced attack like it was last year if Redick starts. 

 

As for Carter, he could be the playmaker off the bench if he were to become the Magic's sixth-man. Aside from Ryan Anderson (and Brandon Bass, to a lesser extent), there's no other reserve for Orlando that needs shots. As such, Carter can play like he normally does and if the second unit is in need of a go-to player while the starters are resting, he can fill that role. Carter can also, at times, feast on opposing second units. Never a bad thing.

 

Moving Carter to the bench wouldn't necessarily mean that Van Gundy is demoting him. More like reassigning him. More often than not, Carter is going to be finishing games for the Magic whether he is a starter or a reserve. 

 

What might change is how the Orlando Magic get to the finish line. 

Comment 55 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

just a thought

why wouldnt it wokr with them both in the starting lineup? carters played plenty of small forward in his career, and jjs clearly earned a starting spot. what would be the issue with that?

by nickswarriors16 on Jan 11, 2010 12:04 PM EST reply actions  

Carter can't defend small forwards; he can, but not well.

Plus, moving Vince to small forward would take a wing defender out of the starting lineup.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm probably Vince's biggest homer here, and even I like the idea of bringing him off the bench.

Let’s be honest, it works. Look at the Hawks with Jamal Crawford, the Spurs with Manu Ginobili, or the Mavericks with Jason Terry. You can bring a 20 point scorer off the bench for 30-32 minutes and be successful. The Spurs won three championships with the formula. Starting your best players isn’t necessarily the best way to win.

I think it’s worth a trial. What’s the worst thing that can happen? Vince is comfortable doing whatever it takes to win.

It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."

by ben_gleicher on Jan 11, 2010 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

I agree.

VC can be X factor off the bench like the guys you named. I even think of example- the Lakers and Odom, they actually play better when Odom is on the court, but he plays better off the bench, and overall results are better with him coming off the bench..

I love the 2nd Unit- JWill, VC, Pietrus, RA, and Gortat. That is kind of unit that can grow or maintain a lead or even start a come back. On that unit VC, can bomb away..

Swapping VC and JJ is genuis.

FEED THE BEAST!!!
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Jan 11, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm on board too. I think it very likely give the Magic a much better chance of winning right now.

And they do need to keep pace in the east. Can’t be waiting for things to click at this point, especially between Dwight and Vince. The #1 focus needs to be getting Dwight in the position to dominate as much as possible. He’s the difference maker. Plus, it gives Carter a chance to pace himself some and go into the playoffs at full charge. I’ve obviously been impressed with Redick this year, and I think he deserves some legit run against starters. That would be good for him and the Magic long term, when evaluating his contract. His attitude and hustle might be the spark the team needs now — in addition to the more tangible assets mentioned in the write up. Ultimately, the Magic need Vince to be there in high pressure situations when defenses are locked down and the Magic can’t get a bucket from their conventional offense. He doesn’t need to start (certainly not right now) in order to give you that.

by CaliFlorida on Jan 11, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess its worth a shot

but I never thought when we traded for him that having him come off the bench would be considered.

I don’t what else SVG can do tho.

"It's all part of the plan." Jeff Moorad and The Joker in the Dark Knight.

"I don't feel this team can beat us four times," Mo Williams 5/21

by L Magico on Jan 11, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions  

I guess nobody thought about..

The fact that he is takes a ton of shots – and a large percentage of his shots are circus shots. He doesn’t have the legs to get to the basket and take high percentage shots anymore. His game has turned from slams and layups to 10 foot fall-aways and 3 point attempts. Sometimes I cringe when he gets the ball, because you know he is going to shoot it, and lately, miss it. Sure its great that he can get 20 points. However, when he has to take 20 shots to get it – this means its taking away shot attempts from everyone else. I cant think of anything else we can do at this point…

by i2ambler on Jan 11, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

We have a few games to see how JJ performs as a starter...

He will have to do good in Sacramento and Denver, but I think how JJ (and the team) performs against the Lakers will indicate who the starting 2 spot will go to…

Fact: I have never met a Magic player, cheerleader or fan in person...

by El-Samawaal on Jan 11, 2010 12:52 PM EST reply actions  

Redick will have a nice test in front of him these next few games. No doubt.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

The Magic offered Hedo a 4 year, $36 million contract.

With the 4th year being a team option. I think Turk was a better fit, sure, however the problem was the contract he wanted and moving forward with the franchise. In all likelihood, Turk the Lovable, Inconsistent Tall Wing would’ve become Turk the Expiring Contract by the time the 4th or 5th year rolled around.

Vince was playing pretty well in November and early December, despite the ankle soreness. Even if this whole Vince thing doesn’t work, he’s a big expiring contract next year. Otis has to think about not just “right now”. That’s partly why he insisted Anderson be included in that trade, so even when Lewis starts to really slow down, we’ll still have a stretch four to go along with Dwight.

by slickw143 on Jan 11, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget Turk's streaks of poor shooting he had last year.

And with meer not driving to the basket as efficiently as last year, Vince can still do that well. Turk awkward drives to the rim will not be missed.

Good Guys Don't use the reply button

by stanleygoober on Jan 11, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

You were laughing at me when I said Vince should come off the bench

And now Van Gundy comes in, says the same thing as me and everybody is like “yeah, great idea!”.

I’m telling you guys, I remember quite a few games with Vince coming off the bench while in New Jersey and it worked great. Sure, I was thinking “man, he’s got to start… he’s too good to come off the bench” but in reality, it doesn’t really matter. What matters are the minutes you play. There is some bonus for some players coming off the bench in that you get to see the flow of the game a bit from the outside in the start. Some players hate it because they get into the game “cold” and play worse.

I think Vince is the 1st kind of guy, the one that benefits coming off the bench. He also usually plays with a little more energy off the bench and he has been damn lethargic the last few games as a starter, bringing his usual “whatever” attitude.

They really should try it.

by Raptorel on Jan 11, 2010 2:00 PM EST reply actions  

What matters are the minutes you play. That's correct.

Which is why the title of starter or reserve is ultimately irrelevant because it doesn’t really matter.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

It's worth a try.

I also thought that Jameer should’ve come off the bench the first couple of games after he came back from his injury, to build up his confidence and whatnot.

The team did ok with Redick as a starter, when Carter got injured earlier this season.

I hope SVG takes a (rare for him) risk, and experiment with Carter as a sixth man, see how it works.

Magic Fan since the 1992-1993 Season.

by North of the South on Jan 11, 2010 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

I wonder how would Vince play with Williams

And what I mean by that is the fact that J-Will likes to push the ball on the fast break, while Vince always likes to trail. Similar things happened with J-Kidd and Vince in New Jersey.

Usually, Kidd would go on the fast break and score for himself or dish it to Jefferson for the slam. If these options would not present themselves, then he would found Vince trailing for the three (because, regardless of what you think, Vince is too slow/too lazy to run on the fastbreak).

A similar situation would happen here: Pietrus would be Jefferson, J-Will would be J-Kidd and Vince … well… Vince. Yes yes yes, don’t compare, but it’s very similar actually. VERY similar.

I repeat – I think it could work very, very well.

by Raptorel on Jan 11, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Shard

there was no question about the offense until Shard came back( and Ryan became a smaller part of it), then Jameer goes down and Vince goes in a slump, then jameer comes back and Shard isint playing well. V.C. is in a shootong slump but i dont think he’s the problem.

I remember Otis saying last year " chemistry- you dont know how to get it, you just know when you dont have it."

I know what Bo dont know.

by D-RAK on Jan 11, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions  

No one is saying Carter is a problem.

People are just trying to figure out how to best utilize him so that the Magic succeed.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

i guess its worth a try but i think we should give vince a chance to come out of his slump

We traded because we didnt have a Kobe, a lebron, a pierce. We needed that go to guy and vince is ours. Yes he is not producing right now but we need him in order to have the edge over these top teams that have their go to guys and vince is capable of being great in our system.

by Vanek on Jan 11, 2010 3:22 PM EST reply actions  

Absolutely he's capable. But it doesn't hurt to try this thing

It’s not like showing off Vince like “look, he’s the problem”. It’s just another kind of lineup with JJ in it (JJ hustles much more and brings energy).

Again, from what I know (and I’ve seen a very high % of all the Nets games Vince played in, stayed informed etc) – he doesn’t have a problem with coming off the bench. In fact, his problem is he’s so altruist. He likes to pass and involve other people in the game. That is a problem because he’s not dominant anymore (although it’s a good approach sometimes).

All in all, I really like the idea, I have to reiterate it.

by Raptorel on Jan 11, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

What difference does it make for him to come out of his slump starting or coming off the bench?

There is no difference.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I like this idea

I like this idea of Carter coming of the bench. However there is another one that could come off the bench – Nelson. Just a thought but we would miss his dribbles.

by far-way on Jan 11, 2010 5:00 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah I think Orlando plays better with J-Will

The question is – can he maintain this level? Can his body stand the pressure?

by Raptorel on Jan 11, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we saw towards the end of his tenure starting during Nelson's absence...

That the answer is no. Williams, at this juncture of his career, can’t play starter minutes for an extended period of time. He’s a much better player as a change of pace guy being matched up against second units.

Nelson is the one guy out of the 4 “stars” who has at least brought consistent effort (although he’s been as inconsistent on the court as the rest of the starters). I think we’ll see what happens now with Vince being out for a bit and having 4 people in the starting line-up who are comfortable and familiar with each other.

by slickw143 on Jan 11, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

No, Williams can't maintain his level of play as a starter.

Jason is 34 years old; he’s not a youngster anymore.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

None of this talk would be happening if the starters were making shots.

The number one issue for the Magic is that their shooters are missing shots they normally make. I don’t think that Vince is missing threes because Jameer is in the lineup or that Rashard’s mid-range jumper has abandoned him because Vince passed him the ball instead of Hedo. They’re missing open shots… Who know’s whats wrong there.

THE SECOND BIGGEST ISSUE is that their perimeter players aren’t moving the ball with the exception of J.J. Redick.

Look at the decline in assist rate this season for Orlando’s perimeter players:

09-10 Assist Rate compared to 08-09 Assist Rate

Mickael Pietrus: -56%
Matt Barnes: -31%
Rashard Lewis: -26%
Vince Carter: -23%
Ryan Anderson -13%

Redick, Howard, and Nelson have improved only slightly.

This shows that the ball is just not moving.

It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."

by ben_gleicher on Jan 11, 2010 6:20 PM EST reply actions  

Pietrus is definitely the biggest culprit in stopping ball movement.

He’s like a black hole most of the time, no matter how close a defender is to him. Gortat is the only player with a lower assist % on the team than Pietrus. Vince does pass it, but just not nearly enough. He doesn’t have the separation he used to get due to his decline in athleticism.

Redick, Nelson, and Williams are the only ones passing consistently right now (despite what people think, Nelson actually has the highest assist % on the team, yes, even higher than the “pass first” PG, J-Will). Dwight was doing a lot better early on, but lately he’s been either pressing to get his own FG attempts, or forcing passes into places that lead to turnovers.

by slickw143 on Jan 11, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think people pile on Pietrus too much. He's a role player. What do you want from him?

He’s there to play defense, be a spot up shooter, and slash to the basket when he can. His biggest downside to me is that he is prone to some silly and frustrating mistakes. But I don’t know many other people I’d want over him to fill his role on the team.

by CaliFlorida on Jan 11, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

The assist percentage tells that tale pretty well.

Out of all of the teammate FG’s made while he was on the floor, Pietrus has assisted on 3% of them. That’s down from 8% last year. To put it in perspective, Dwight is at 7.7%, Ryan Anderson is at 8.3%, Redick is at 12.9%, and Nelson is at 30.5%. I think we can agree that Pietrus is capable of giving out more assists with his penetration than he’s shown this year.

As you said, he’s in there to play defense, be a spot up shooter, and slash to the basket when he can. When he’s doing those, he’s a great role player. Nowhere in there did you say “shoot three’s with a hand in his face”, or “do a pump fake, take two dribbles to your left, and shoot a contested 20 foot fadeaway”. That doesn’t even include the stepping out of bounds spotting up for 3’s.

by slickw143 on Jan 11, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't mind him shooting with a hand in his face.

Pretty sure there’s not generally available stats for that, but we’ve seen him hit some big contested shots before. He is a solid 3 pt shooter and in SVG’s offense that means fire away. If he’s throwing it off his foot, that’s just him being mistake prone. And I don’t care about his assist deficiency, that’s not his role at all. Him not creating isn’t the same as him killing possessions by not moving the ball. He isn’t really a ‘black hole.’ Pump fakes and two dribbles to your left is what role players do, by the way.

by CaliFlorida on Jan 12, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

According to Synergy Sports, Carter shoots better guarded than unguarded.

Typically it’s the other way around for most players in the NBA.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 12, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Redick's a role player.

And he doesn’t shoot nearly as many contested shots as Pietrus.

by slickw143 on Jan 12, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Pietrus' usage rate is 17.3%, which is low.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Starting Redick Makes Sense But How Will Vince Be Able To Handle It

But Then Again Maybe The Problem Is With The Point Guard, The Celtics Have 3 Allstars As Well And Havent Had Much Offensive Problems.

by Andeezy on Jan 11, 2010 7:22 PM EST reply actions  

The Celtics and Magic are two different teams.

Can’t really compare them.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 12, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Vince Carter = huge disappointment for Magic fans

In the offseason when Vince was signed, I think most rational people saw it for what it was, a MISTAKE.

1) Vince Carter has never been a winner. Never making it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, he has never shown the determination, work ethic or all around “intangibles” of a winner. It takes a strong mind to be a winner. You take RISKS by putting yourself on the line. It is much easier to be a loser, especially with EXCUSES. “He has never had a good team,” is obviously the most used and abused of these excuses.

2) Vince is OLD now. He no longer has those spry legs that allow him to get to the rim at will.

3) Vince is NOT worth his contract. Why else would a team give him away for basically nothing and add in Ryan Anderson just so someone would take him off their hands? The Nets do not look out for the well being of the Magic. The Nets do what is in their OWN self interest, and finding someone to take Vince off their hands, at that ridiculous salary, was a god send.

4) Vince is incredibly innefficient. His FG% for his entire career has been in the low to mid 40% range, even in his “prime” (or lack thereof i should say). This inefficiency, plus his ego which tells him that he is an elite player, is a horrible mixture, especially for a team which has other options. Remember, there are only a limited number of possessions each game. Someone like Vince flurishes on a horrible team because he is taking possessions away from even worse players.

5) Heart. Vince lacks heart. I guess this is the same as #1, but it is so important i gave it another run.

Of course Magic fans cannot admit to this. They were sooo gun ho over the offseason, yelling down any critic with ad hominem attacks, that now it is far too late to admit they were wrong. They will stick to their mantra of “otis is a genious, anything he does is by default correct.” Even though he is the one who gave Rashard Lewis the most ridiculous contract in the NBA, signed Gortat for a joke of a contract and brought over Bass who also has a bad contract. Gortat/Bass are going to be impossible to get rid of, and they play ZERO minutes on a team which they do not mesh well with. Rashard cannot be gotten rid of, even though he does fit well with the Magic. All in all, Otis made mistake after mistake, yet Magic fans cannot come to grips with it.

by plyka on Jan 11, 2010 9:41 PM EST reply actions  

Feel better now?

Otis has not been without detractors among the fan base, even here at OPP. Sure, we’re prone to homerism. Fans sometimes do that. My supposition is that you were reading somewhere besides OPP this summer. While I remember mixed response, I don’t recall this community broadly responding to assessments of the risk of bringing Vince aboard with ad hominem attacks.

But I think your arguments are laced with plenty of 20/20 hindsight. Vince to Orlando had some question marks/risks, yes. So would have re-signing Hedo. Vince put up good numbers last season and was expected to compete at that level this season, too. The Nets did not just give Vince away because he was done, but b/c they found a taker that helped their 2010 FA plan. Time will tell if your assessment of Bass and Gortat is accurate (I don’t agree with you, btw). Otis, like many GMs, ends up with some good and some not so good moves. And, as with Bass and Gortat, there is still a future to see if such moves—even the one for Vince—were, after all, good ones.

"We'll figure it out. The sky's not falling." 'Has anybody ever won the championship in December?' ~Otis Smith

by magicfaninTN on Jan 11, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Also, Marcin's not nearly playing zero minutes

He’s averaging 13.2 minutes per game. Backup centers averaging more minutes than Gortat? Zaza Pachulia, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and Kwame Brown. Who back up the undersized Horford, supersized O’Neal, and youth-deficient Wallace. Yes, there are others, but most of them have filled in as starters for injured players. Both Bass and Gortat will be trade assets.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Jan 11, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Our team is just starting to come toghether

I would have to say that we were among the top of the pick on offseasons pick ups chosen by many analysts. Vince will be our go to guy and Bass and Gortat will bring muscle when we need it. Dont try to call the Magic out for a badd offseason and call out our players because we lost a few games , we still have one of the best records in the league without even playing close to our potential.

by Vanek on Jan 11, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Look who's back. I'll play.

In the off-season when Vince Carter was signed, the majority of the people that analyzed the move said it was a smart one. Not necessarily because Carter was the better player than Turkoglu (he is), but because it allowed the Magic to commit to a short-term contract (2 years with Vince) as opposed to a long-term contract (5 years with Hedo). You have to look at the big picture of things and not necessarily the short-term ramifications of the move. This was a decision with an eye towards the future but you’re caught up in now.

- Carter has never been much of a winner because, quite frankly, he hasn’t been on many winning teams. Is that Vince’s fault? No.
- Vince is old, yes. I don’t think any sane individual would admit otherwise.
- Vince isn’t worth his contract, no, but 2 years at $33 million is more manageable than 5 years at $60 million. Everyone knows that Hedo’s deal became a toxic asset the moment the ink dried on his contract.
- Vince has been inefficient, yes, but not for his career. Carter’s career Offensive Rating of 109 is just a hair above-average. Ego? By any chance, have you interviewed Vince? Guess what? I have and not once did I get a sense that he believes he’s still an elite player. Carter realizes where he’s at in his career, which is why he stated to me that he doesn’t care about numbers anymore. Just wins. So much for that ego, eh?
- Vince lacks heart. Unfortunately, this is unquantifiable.

Magic fans are realistic and I find it humorous that you, once again, stop by OPP when Carter is struggling. It’s easy to kick a guy when he’s down, point to your finger at fans, and say in a long-winded manner that “I’m right.” Too bad there’s a couple more months in the year. No verdict can be made one way or the other until the season is over. Until then, no one is right or wrong. Patience isn’t your strong suit, apparently.

As for Rashard Lewis, is he overpaid? Yes, but there are worse contracts in the NBA. Signed Gortat to a joke of a contract? Did you know that, technically, the Magic didn’t sign him to the contract Marcin currently has? The Dallas Mavericks did. Is Gortat not playing to his potential this year? Of course, but he’s starting to round back into form and playing more like the starting-caliber center that he is. Once again, no patience.

Brandon Bass has a bad contract? Really? A player with a 17.1 PER, 2-year adjusted plus/minus of 1.88, and more, at the price of $4 million looks like a bargain to me. But your jaded opinion would beg to differ.

Otis made mistake after mistake? Well, looks like he’s been a walking disaster in putting together an elite team that’s set up to contend for championships for the next five years. Otis isn’t perfect and he’s made bad moves here and there (as has every general manager in the NBA) but he’s well-regarded as one of the best in the business. Or one of the worst in the business, according to your flawless and sterling opinion.

To sum it up, almost everything you said was incorrect.

I apologize if my response was a bit curt or rude, by the way.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 11, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

I'll add to the not a winner part. Here's some of the Hall of Fame talent Vince Carter has had.

 Negele Knight, Sean Marks, the mummified corpse of Kevin Willis, Dee Brown, ancient Muggsy Bogues , Keon Clark, Tyrone Corbin, the list goes on. Go ahead and throw in Jason Kidd if you want, he’s never won a championship either. Do you consider him an inefficient loser? Winning championships in pro sports is a perfect storm of talent, luck, and match ups(see Cleveland ’09, numerous others). As for the rest of your arguments, I believe Mr. Rivera has done a far better job of putting you in your place than I ever could.

Loco por volver a verte, estoy aqui sentado y solito.
Mi corazon ya no responde, porque ya no estoy contigo.

by Diosnomeama on Jan 12, 2010 3:52 AM EST up reply actions  

By record, the best Raptors team Vince was on was 2000-01 (47-35)

The starting five?
After trading away Action Jackson and Big Nasty Williamson, the starting five was Alvin Williams, Vince Carter, rookie Morris Peterson, Antonio Davis, and Charles Oakley. The ages of the starters? 26, 24, 23, 32, and 37. Their key backups were Dell Curry and Keon Clark. This wasn’t a franchise built to win. It was an eclectic collection of young talents, a handful of flawed role players, and a couple aging big men. Stockton had more talent in Malone than Carter had in his entire supporting cast.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Jan 12, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree, even though my first sentence makes it sound like I don't.

It’s one of the risks of being awake at an ungodly hour.

Loco por volver a verte, estoy aqui sentado y solito.
Mi corazon ya no responde, porque ya no estoy contigo.

by Diosnomeama on Jan 12, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I figured you were - I was lending further supporting evidence

The defense rests, Your Honor ;)

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Jan 12, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, enough said.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 12, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Minimalistchalksquare_small
Please Welcome Mike from Illinois to the OPP Writing Team
Images_small
Post-Game Recap: Magic 109, Wizards 103
Logo2_small
The Dwight Saga
Images_small
Post-Game Recap: 76ers 74, Magic 69

Recent FanPosts

Small
Peter Vecsey on Howard and Kobe conversation
Small
Dwight Howard and scoring volatility
Small
VOTE!!: Rondo, JO, Allen, 2 picks for D12 & Nelson
Aazpkmicmaanray_jpg_large_small
Poll: Who has the worse contract?
Small
Oh Jameer, Jameer, where hast thou gone?
Images_small
Nelson for Calderon?
Stantheman_small
Stupid Dwight Howard Trade Posts

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Contact Us

General Twitter feed

Evan Dunlap, Managing Editor / Press Contact

Tiny Blogroll

Rather than include our complete blogroll in this space, we've decided to link to it instead. That way, you won't have to do as much scrolling. Enjoy.


Managing Editor

Minimalistchalksquare_small Evan Dunlap

Contributing Writer

Images_small Mike from Illinois