Debunking Certain Myths About Vince Carter And Stan Van Gundy
Before I get into the premise of my post, I wanted to state that I was inspired by Kevin Broom's (of The Secret Weapon, a fantastic Washington Wizards-centric blog) excellent critique of a Fox Sports article that was written last week. Broom took the time to debunk a number of criticisms pointed towards Gilbert Arenas by the author of the article in question, Randy Hill. If you have a chance, check it out.
After reading what Hill wrote about Vince Carter and Stan Van Gundy, I felt compelled to respond in some manner because of the inaccuracies in the write-up. I'll try to be as concise as possible, but pardon me if I delve into the subject a bit.
Here's what Hill stated about Carter and Van Gundy:
With the versatile and underrated Hedo Turkoglu off to Toronto in free agency, Carter was acquired in a deal that could turn out to be a masterstroke or disaster in the petri dish.
Will Carter's ability to create scoring opportunities (usually for himself) provide late-game options when Dwight Howard is blanketed by defenders and his own free-throw genius? Or will this suspected coach-killer be the final nail in the Orlando run of Stan Van Gundy?
Click after the jump to see my response.
With the versatile and underrated Hedo Turkoglu off to Toronto in free agency, Carter was acquired in a deal that could turn out to be a masterstroke or disaster in the petri dish.
Let's begin with the first paragraph. It's hard to imagine how the acquisition of Vince Carter could turn out to be a disaster for the Orlando Magic, when you take a look at all the variables in question. It's already been stated that Vince is an upgrade over Hedo Turkoglu, offensively. Defensively, that's another story but rest assured, the issue surrounding the Carter's defensive capabilities isn't something that is too glaring. If it was, the topic would have been addressed at Third Quarter Collapse.
Apart from the infusion of talent, general manager Otis Smith executed the trade to acquire Carter because of the flexibility he provides, with regards to his contract. Hedo Turkoglu secured a five-year deal with the Toronto Raptors. It's evident that Smith didn't want to commit to that type of contract for a player, as unique of a talent he is, who arguably only had one "great" season in his tenure with the Magic - the year in which Turkoglu won the Most Improved Player Award. Rather than tie up resources to the Turkoglu, Smith opted to acquire a better player with a shorter contract (two years, with a team option for a third). Although Carter is indeed making more money than Turkoglu, the length of his contract is what stands out.
Orlando will eventually need to retool its roster and the fact that Carter's deal expires in two years (assuming the team doesn't pick up the third year) is crucial, because it allows the Magic to find a replacement while Dwight Howard is around. The alternative (Turkoglu is re-signed) makes things more difficult for Smith to retool on the fly, because of the cost in correlation to a player's declining production. In essence, Carter's contract is manageable. Turkoglu's contract is not manageable.
By acquiring Carter, Orlando gains a better player, more flexibility, etc. The only downside that can be drummed up is the possibility that the Magic don't win a title with Carter in the next two years, but that's a risk the franchise has to take. Even then, if Orlando doesn't win a championship with Carter, it shouldn't be considered a disaster. At least the organization is committed to doing whatever it takes to win and not acting like the Memphis Grizzlies (harsh, I know).
Will Carter's ability to create scoring opportunities (usually for himself) provide late-game options when Dwight Howard is blanketed by defenders and his own free-throw genius?
Normally, I don't criticize another person's writing because who am I to say that it's good or bad? However, this is an exception, because the quoted excerpt above is awful "analysis". It's already been elaborated upon, and proven, that Carter has the ability to create scoring opportunities for others like Turkoglu. People marveled at Turkoglu's ability to create off the dribble, yet don't bother to note that Carter had the same assist percentage AND a lower turnover percentage this past season.
It's insinuated that Carter is selfish on the court, when he's shown that he's not.
Need a example to further disprove that notion? Watch as Carter happily defers to his New Jersey Nets teammate, Devin Harris, for a game-winning shot last year.
Enough said.
Or will this suspected coach-killer be the final nail in the Orlando run of Stan Van Gundy?
The final question in the examination of Carter, and Van Gundy, is horrendous.
Unfortunately for Carter, he is chasing ghosts from his Toronto Raptors past, in which he was fed up with the franchise and wanted to -insert emphasis here- win.
Here's what Dave D'Alessandro of The Star-Ledger, in a discussion with 3QC, had to say a month ago:
Last thing first: Whether you think he "quit" on the Raptors is irrelevant, because a new team and challenge is likely to invigorate even the most melancholic of players--and Vince doesn't hide the fact that he was fed up in Toronto. Can happen to anybody, when the coach benches you in fourth quarters, as Sam Mitchell did throughout Nov/Dec of 2004. And he's long since rebuilt his image as a professional of the highest order. [...]
Kind of hard to summarize the 10 (mostly illustrious) seasons of Carter's career, other than to note that he has -- with very few slips -- brought honor and class and unmatched pyrotechnics to the league that values all three. OK, maybe you don't know this: Of all the superstars you might encounter in this ego-driven business, you might not meet another guy who is more accessible, approachable, affable, and agreeable. Some say that part of his personality lacks the competitiveness or edge he needs to be one of the greats. To which I say: I don't care. To be great in this league, you have to have two things: Consistency, and the ability to do it late. I'd put Vince in the "pretty damn good" category, and a likely Hall of Famer for helping save the league in the post-Jordan age. But I also admire him for not chasing an image, or trying to live up to the expectations, or seeing himself only through the eyes of others. He's very comfortable in his own skin, and for someone of his accomplishments, that's the best measure of the man.
I can vouch, in the limited time I've been able to interact and speak with Carter since his arrival to Orlando, that he's everything that D'Alessandro described.
Everything.
Does that sound like a coach-killer to you? The answer is no.
And since when was there a final nail in the coffin of Stan Van Gundy? It's a lazy and terrible assertion backed up with no claim or evidence. Apparently, a head coach that constructed a unit which led the NBA in defensive efficiency, guided a team to a second consecutive Southeast Division Title, an Eastern Conference Title, and a trip to the NBA Finals, oversaw the development of a point guard that evolved from a role player to an All-Star, all in the past season, is on the "hot seat".
It's hard for there to be a final nail in the coffin when a coffin (and the nail & the hammer) doesn't exist, in the first place, for an elite coach in the Association.
All in all, this is an example of a "veteran columnist" at a national media outlet that has no clue what he's talking about, with regards to the Orlando Magic. Surprised?
31 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nicely done. I like that you called him out.
But c’mon, making fun of the Grizzlies is like pistol whippin’ a blind kid.
"It's difficult to win when you're outscored in every quarter." -Bill Walton
Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
by The Dark on Aug 3, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can we once and for all...
…stop reading from uninformed members of the media that the Magic opted to acquire Vince Carter instead of resigning Hedo Turkoglu? When will it be clear that the Magic made the move when they realized Hedo wasn’t coming back? I guess when the move turns out in the favor of the Magic…because you know if the VC experiment doesn’t work these same people will be saying Otis gambled and lost.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
I don't read Fox Sports for my NBA fix.
Only reason why I referred to the article is because of how poorly written it was. As for pleasing the media, Otis Smith is in a near no-win situation. The only validation he’ll receive is if the Orlando Magic win a title in the next two years with Vince Carter on board. If not, then he’s going to be accused of being a loser.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Fox Sports taking its cue from Fox News I guess...
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Aug 3, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yup........Faux news
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Aug 3, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Right on. OS has no choice but to win a title.
Nice calling Randy Hill out too. I just wish call outs like this would happen much more and on a national scale. The national media that covers the NBA keeps getting worse. I mean I thought it couldn’t get worse than Stephen A., but it has.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
I rarely "call out" the national media because I don't feel like wasting my time.
This is the second time I’ve done it at 3QC.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Lazy journalism
It’s the only word to sum up Hill’s article. LAzy in the fact there was a millisecond where a small percentage of Orlando’s fanbase where pissed at Stan for the PG debacle in the finals. The media jumped on this and made it far bigger than it needed to be and Randy HIll clearly has no idea about the Magic or they way this team works. Most big-outlet contributors are exactly the same.
I like how you called him out and I hope you make sure this gets noticed by his employers and his writings debunked.
Check out some of my photos: My Flickr Account
LifeOfAGiant.com - Check out my blog. Photos, randomness, etc. GO!
Follow me on Twitter
I'm not trying to get the guy fired or anything, but I wanted to shed light on his "analysis".
.. which was poor. But as you said, this is typical for most national media outlets.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I'm just sayin' ...
… maybe his employers should piss-test him, since he’s clearly smoking something.
Check out some of my photos: My Flickr Account
LifeOfAGiant.com - Check out my blog. Photos, randomness, etc. GO!
Follow me on Twitter
This myth...
BUSTED!
Good job E. Flawless victory.
<img src=“”http://media.photobucket.com/image/flawless victory/ApaoloFight/flawless-victory-my-victory-it-is-f.jpg?o=1" target="_blank">
"/>
by fwedo on Aug 3, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL. Thanks.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
nothin new
Being overlooked, dissed and unfairly judged is a regular occurence when you are The Magic.
Thats me chilling with Nick Anderson
by The Magic made Lebron run off the court on Aug 3, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions
Another thing about the assertion that Carter is a coach killer is a bit odd...
…considering Carter had the same coach for his entire near five year stint in Jersey. Yes, he had his share of coaches with the Raptors, but as far as I know, it was really only the last season where there was an issue, and that was with Sam Mitchell after four consecutive disappointing seasons north of the border. I wasn’t paying too much attention to the turmoil of Carter and the Raptors, so maybe I’m missing something…
Let's observe a moment of silence for CLee, Skip to my Lou, Batman, and The Michael Jordan of Turkey...
Welcome Back Polish Hammer and Welcome Vinsanity, Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, and Matt Barnes!!
No you're right
Sam Mitchell was a terrible coach. Didn’t know what the hell he was doing. Raptors threw out Kevin O’Neill cause he sucked and replaced him with someone just as bad. That was during the “Rob Babcock” era (he makes Isiah look like Sam Presti.)
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Aug 3, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It's real simple.
Vince Carter was a product of his environment and his time with Toronto was an example of that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Really good points
Excellent work with this article.
Since I’m a Vince Carter fan for so much time, and I was impressed at the quality of the articles on this site, I have decided to make an account here.
I have seen roughly a couple hundreds of VC games (or maybe more) and I can tell you that you’re right on the money with this article.
Dave D’Alessandro said exactly what there was to be said.
Vince is such an underrated passer and three point shooter. VERY underrated. Like Rod Thorn said: “Now everybody will see how good Vince really is”.
Thanks for the kind words and for joining the community.
Welcome. Glad to have you onboard.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
By the way, here's some scouting reports
Scouting report on Vince from draftexpress :
One of my fave parts:
A great shot creator for himself and others, capable of making every pass, but excelling most in the pick-and-roll.
Is it November yet?
by Stan in a Van (Down by the River) on Aug 4, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much the antithesis of Hill's description.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Well, there's another thing SVG & VC can bond over...
…being purposely misunderstood by mainstream media! Articles like Hill’s just boggle my mind. I know it’s a long off season but daaang.
by Stan in a Van (Down by the River) on Aug 4, 2009 7:59 AM EDT reply actions
What Carter won't be able to shed is the image of not having made all out of his physical/athletic abilities. And not just in the mainstream media.
Otherwise he would be better than Kobe, maybe almost as good as MJ, which he is not. And that he too often didn’t give his all in Toronto and New Jersey is also hard to disprove. There are more than enough fans of those teams who often wanted the coach to taser him for not showing up with 100%. Don’t get me wrong, I like his addition to the Magic for what it could potentially improve, only the author has a point when he writes it could be “a masterstroke or disaster in the petri dish.”
FreeDarko (who love individual performers for their personality on the court) have captured this dilemma well in their Almanach chapter on VC (in a category aptly titled “Phenomenal Tumors”).
Going to his graduation the morning of the 2001 ECF semis game 7 against the Sixers, which was both admirable and made Raptors fans furious when he missed the decisive shot.
“While Michael Jordan lived to play basketball, Carter always seemed to embrace his calling reluctantly.”
Comparing him to his cousin T-Mac. “Carter, on the other hand, is distracted from basketball by something either more important or simply more real. His game is a glassy-eyed harlot, a beautiful black hole that threatens everything that makes the NBA so profound.[…] And that such overpowering, sublime play could be so empty is enough to cause any basketball lover a crisis of faith.”
You can still hope this VC quote becomes true:
“I’m going to make a lot of people eat their words – when it’s time”
"I'm addicted to polo y'all...respect my fresh" - Travis25Outlaw
Maybe VC realizez this is just a game
Maybe he doesn’t forget there are more important things in life than a ball bouncing off the ground.
It’s one thing to have a passion for something, it’s another to live “in your own little world”. Some of us just can’t enter that “zone” that MJ was more often than not “inside” when he played.
I personally – when I play – I sometimes get this thought through my mind that “wtf? I’m a grown man running after a ball… wtf is wrong with me”. Not often but you get the idea.
Or, he could just not give his all effort since the money would still come regardless of how well he plays. We also should take into account all his injuries throughout his career. That can make you penetrate less than before.
As for that missed shot against Philadelphia… I have no idea what relevance does it have that he was at his graduation in the morning. It’s not like he had a bad game. Missing a shot has nothing to do with anything, it has to do with inches and centimeters and luck/bad luck. To debate over that is stupid (I’m not talking about you, I’m talking about the people that blame him for that). I’m proud that he went to his graduation, that should tell some things.
I don't mind pieces that explore that aspect of VC's career
I understand that there is a long somewhat bitter history associated with VC by a lot of NBA fans. However, exploring that history and what it might mean (ie FreeDarko) and relying on it to just lazily throw out some stereotypes (the linked article) are vastly different in my opinion. Get what I mean?
However, I really don’t understand the SVG stigmas that seem to persist.
by Stan in a Van (Down by the River) on Aug 4, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the "shot" at SVG in Hill's article was extremely odd.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I disagree.
I don’t think Hill is accurate by saying that Vince Carter’s acquisition will either be success or failure.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by 











