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Around SBN: Identifying The 19th-Best Team In Baseball

A Second Opinion On Scott Skiles

Photo is courtesy of the Orlando Magic.

A little over a week ago, to recap my 'retired jerseys' mini-series, I decided to utilize Benjamin Golliver's jersey retirement formula to figure out how each former Orlando Magic individual fared in the calculations. Since Scott Skiles was examined by request of the community, he wasn't included in the fun, until now. It would seem fitting to crunch the numbers and see how he would fare in a "test of worthiness."

 

So, without further ado.

 

Click after the jump for the results.

 

Star-divide

Introduction:

 

The majority of the calculations are no-brainers but in cases where awarding points isn't clear, I attached notes to explain my reasoning. If you're antsy or impatient [!!], feel free to skip to the bottom to see the point totals.

 

  1. Criterion One: Connection with the Franchise

    Ben explains:

    To determine how closely a player is connected with a franchise, one generally assesses 4 conditions:

    1. Did the player play his most important years with the team?

    2. Did the player play the majority of his career with the team?

    3. Was the player drafted by the team?

    4. Did the player retire with the team?

    Skiles - 3 points (meets conditions #1, #2, and #3)

    Notes: Even though Skiles was technically drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks in the 1986 NBA Draft, he was still an original member of the Orlando Magic via the 1989 Expansion Draft.


  2. Criterion Two: Success with the Franchise

    From Ben:

    Judging a player's relative success across generations can be tricky, but its clear two factors are important to consider: the maximum success his team's enjoyed and his role in creating that success.

    Ask yourself, "Can the story of the franchise's glory days be told without mentioning this player?"

    To weigh both the team's success and the player's role in that sucess, I gave 5 points to a star on a championship team, 5 points to a starter on championship team, 5 points to a star on a finalist team, 4 points to a role player on a finalist team and 4 points to a starter on a finalist team.

    Skiles - 2 points (courtesy)


    Notes: Skiles didn't meet any of the requirements, so he was given 2 courtesy points for bridging the gap between the start of the franchise and the Penny/Shaq era, where he played an important role in doing so.

     

  3. Criterion Three: Statistical Body of Work

    Golliver:

    Ask yourself, "How dominant (and for how long) was this player?"

    In assigning the points in this category, I took into account: league-leading tallies, franchise/league records, double-doubles, 10+ year careers, and anything else that truly jumps out of the box score/ stat sheet.

    Skiles - 3 points

    Notes: Similar to how I deciphered how many points Darrell Armstrong deserved, I gave a similar point total to Skiles due to the fact he had similar statistical accomplishments to Armstrong. Skiles had yearly leader board appearances in free throw percentage, and periodically, in three point percentage, assists per game, assists percentage, & total assists. Because Armstrong didn't have any franchise records, but Skiles did (and an NBA record), that is the reason why I awarded the latter with an additional .5 point.


  4. Criterion Four: Individual Awards

    Golliver:

    Ask, "What are the standout individual achievements on this player's resume and how do they compare to other franchise greats?"

    Skiles - 3 points

    Notes: Skiles received 1 point for winning the 1991 Most Improved Player Award, and received 2 points for setting the NBA record (which still stands, today) by getting 30 assists in one game against the Denver Nuggets during the 1990-1991 regular season. A special accomplishment deserves such recognition.


  5. Criterion Five: The Intangibles

    Golliver:

    This section takes into account the player's personality, contributions to the community and investment in the organization.

    Ask yourself, "Is the player a credit to the organization, the city and the league?"

    [....]

    While this category is certainly subjective, it is only 20% of the overall picture so haggling over a point up or down should not make or break a candidate's application.

    Skiles - 5 points

    Notes: Skiles was an original member of the Orlando Magic, a fan favorite, a local legend, and more. Skiles left the organization with no negative feelings or sentiments, and was justly honored by the team in 2006 with a night remembering his accomplishments as a former player of the franchise. Skiles hasn't been able to do much within the Central Florida community, but that is due to the fact he is currently a head coach in the NBA with the Milwaukee Bucks (ironically, the team that originally drafted him). 

Conclusion:

 

Scott Skiles - 16 points

 

Notes: Cutoff for "eligibility" is in the 15-17 range on the scale.

 

 

To putt Scott Skiles' number in perspective, conducting the same test, Darrell Armstrong was alloted 15 points. There's almost no argument that Armstrong was a better player than Skiles with the Magic, but the main reason why Skiles ended up with an additional point was due to one thing and one thing only - his 30 assists game, which remains a franchise record AND NBA record. That accomplishment, alone, garnered Skiles more points, subsequently tipping the scale in his favor. In the end, the difference in point totals is minute, but it's worth discussing why the difference.

 

In the end, Skiles is like Armstrong, a "fringe" candidate to have his jersey retired by Orlando. 

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2 points, out of 20 possible, for setting that record seems high to me

I don’t think Skiles merits retirement. Dude played well, and hard, but not for long enough here. And he didn’t play during the team’s most prosperous years.

by Evan Dunlap on Aug 29, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think it's high, because in the end, it doesn't remarkably change anything about his worthiness.

If it made a difference, then I’d agree, but it doesn’t, so I felt giving him 2 points for setting an NBA record which still stands today and will probably never be broken, given how the game is played, works for me.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Aug 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed, not jersey retiree material

I want to take back my yes vote now that my sentimental side got smart to the facts.

Thats me chilling with Nick Anderson

by The Magic made Lebron run off the court on Aug 29, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Scott Skiles

Wow, I can not believe that you are saying this about Scott Skiles. He was the TRUE FOUNDER of HEART & HUSSLE. He would get into Shaq’s face yelling “Come on! Let’s Go!!!” He did not care who the player was on his team, he inspired everyone. I wish that they would have gotten some quotes from Shaq about him. You did not have to worry about him taking a night off. You obviously did not see him play. There should be a bigger score for intangibles…he would have max’ed out. If you liked Darrell Armstrong, then you would have loved Scotty Skiles. If you met him out on the town he was as serious as he was on the court.

by John from Deltona on Aug 30, 2009 9:09 AM EDT reply actions  

I could have gotten more Shaq quotes, via his book.

O’Neal had a few positive things to say about Scottie.

As for his intangibles score, it IS maxed out. 5 points is the most a player can receive.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Aug 30, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I did like Darrell and Skiles

However retiring a jersey to the rafters is a sacred affair. The same way that I think we shouldnt raise division and conference banners.Darrell Armstrong and Scotty Skiles both are among my favorite players. They both meant alot to this young franchise. They both were good players in the league. In my opinion they both arent QUITE good enough to retire their jersey. Only Nick Anderson and Shaquille Oneal deserve to be in the conversation. And both of themare iffy for various reasons. In my opinion a franchise has to hold high standards so the honor means something. Otherwise you could end up with the likes of Olumide Oyedeji getting his gear in the rafters.

Thats me chilling with Nick Anderson

by The Magic made Lebron run off the court on Aug 30, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Epitome of Floor General

During the years that Scottie was here he made every single player that he was on the court with better……including Shaq and the big fella’ would support that.

I agree with DeltonaJohn that Scottie deserves more props on the intangibles. He was the Magic when he played with us. He and Nick Anderson were the two players that defined the team we were and still are today. Grit. Determination. Heart. Hustle.

He was awesome to watch, especially when he would outplay players with much more talent than he had. When we needed points he could usually get them…and then he would chew everyone else out for not doing their part. True Leader. Although his offense wasn’t exactly pretty and sometimes downright ugly….to see him play (especially live) the way I did that night he dished out 30 at the O-rena…………it was a thing of absolute beauty.

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles".....

by hwyatt3 on Aug 30, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Read my comment above.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Aug 30, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I give Scotty props

IMO Skiles is the standard to be measured against at point guard. He also brings the kind of professionalism and passion that is needed to be a contender.(which is why he has been a successful coach)This should be an example of how hard this group of players must work if they wish to earn that glory. Skiles is right at the edge but I think championship or leaguewide MVP type play with close misses at championship are the only reasons to retire anybodiy’s jersey. thats just me tho, I am a hard ass

Thats me chilling with Nick Anderson

by The Magic made Lebron run off the court on Aug 30, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

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