Orlando Magic & Retired Jerseys: Preview
by erivera7 on Aug 10, 2009 8:00 AM EDT
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With the off-season moving along at a steady crawl, I've been able to divulge on a project I've been wanting to work on for a while. A few months ago, the Third Quarter Collapse community had a stirring debate about the Orlando Magic retiring jerseys. As everyone is aware, the organization has yet to retire a player's jersey. However, this hasn't stopped the fan-base from wondering when Orlando will finally immortalize one of its own players (like Nick Anderson, in the picture above) by hanging his number in the rafters.
I decided to approach the topic from a different point of view, atypical of what people have done in trying to rationalize which individuals deserved to be honored. With the help of Jon Nichols of Basketball-Statistics and Neil Paine of Basketball-Reference, I wanted to take a look at the statistical production of a few Magic players and compare them to individuals in the NBA that have had their jerseys retired. Rather than reveal which players I examined, I'll go ahead and leave people guessing until tomorrow. I figured it'd be good to build up the suspense.
So, stay tuned tomorrow for Part I of my mini-series featuring ???
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I wonder how much those missed free throws in the Finals have to do with it.
Poor Nick Anderson is the Bill Buckner of Orlando.
"Fun fact: Larry Hughes, who couldn’t stay healthy if all his human parts were replaced with bionic implants, is out for the next four weeks with a bruised leg. Do you think that Willis Reed ever reads about all these players missing time with bruises and sprained fingers and throws up in his mouth a little?"
From looking at MagicPride's stats, the people I'd look at (in no particular order):
Nick Anderson
Horace Grant
Penny Hardaway
Scott Skiles
Dennis Scott
Darrell Armstrong
I don’t think more than 3, maybe 4 of those should be retired at the most, but they’re the ones that I think you could consider.
Non-retired players that might merit consideration in a few years:
Shaq
Tracy McGrady
Hedo Turkoglu
I personally doubt all three, but again, they have the stats to be considered. Dwight definitely will have his retired (barring something really bizarre happening), but it’ll be more than a few years.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Who should be considered.
N.Anderson, D.Scott, S.Skiles (no particular order)
Shaq one day…maybe…but he keeps trashing the franchise (regardless of all the franchise records he has). Guys whose numbers get retired usually keep a good relationship with the franchise retiring their number. Shaq has been far from that.
In the end, a lot of it is fan and public perception.
E, is there a way to track players’ relationships with the franchise (ie, how they left the team, whether they live in the city of the team, work for the team post retirement, etc)
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
In the end, a lot of it is fan and public perception.
That’s the key. You can’t automatically retire jerseys of players just because they meet some statistical cut-off, or else McGrady #1 would be hanging from the rafters. Judging by length of service, individual and team accomplishments, and popularity, #25 #10 and maybe #4 (Skiles) (no disrespect to Seikaly) are worth considering. I personally wouldn’t retire anyone’s jersey unless he played on a Championship team, but maybe that’s just me.
A “Ring of Honor” kind of thing would be a better idea for these guys any way.
Ring of Honor
That’s a better idea. That helps separate those players like Dwight (if he wins multiple championships and becomes of the league’s greatest) and players that accomplished great individual or team records with franchise (Skiles, D.Scott) and were fan favorites (Armstrong). That’s what the University of Miami football does with all the players that have come out of there and I only think like one number is retired. And it still isnt a cakewalk to get in The U’s Ring of Honor.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
Yep,but even then,#25 would be first up there.
Yeah,Mcgrady holds records for most points in ONE game,half,FTs,but Nick holds most of the FRANCHISE records overall,which is more important here.
Statistically,Nick has the priority. Screw those FTs.
I'm going to do the best I can do discuss the players' relationship with the franchise.
If I do, it’ll be very briefly because I don’t want that to completely overshadow the analysis.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Skiles.
Have the BoSox retired Buckner’s Jersey yet?
No to Nick Anderson.
That would be worse than the heat retiring Jordan and Marino’s Jersey.
I believe the cool Kids would call it a Jersey retire FAIL.
by Will Said Skills Pay the Billz? on Aug 10, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions
I completely disagree.
That wouldn’t be worse.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
LOL ok not worse
But those F*ing FREE THROWS!!!!
by Will Said Skills Pay the Billz? on Aug 10, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It's in the past.
Anderson did more good than bad during his time with the Magic.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Agreed
But it still hurts a plenty
by Will Said Skills Pay the Billz? on Aug 10, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Pat Garrity`s jersey ....................
After nine plus years with the magic Pat Garrity should be also considered to have his jersey retired for the Magic team……………………..
Especially considering the Magic got Garrity instead of Marion in the Penny trade...
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
Are you serious?
I hope you’re kidding.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Yeah I'm totally kidding.
Though I have always thought the Magic should of tried a little harder to get The Matrix in the Penny trade instead of settling for Garrity. Water under the bridge though…
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
I guess he was.
But, for the record…I do not think the Magic should retire Pat Garrity’s number. No one should. Lol.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
That's revisionist thinking, though.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
looking forward to the 2nd installment of Ben Q's piece
and i’ll just say that personally i don’t think there is anyone that deserves to have their jersey retired. you can make a case for nick, given his 10 seasons with the team and his solid play. he was the best player on some of those bad early teams, but he was never an all-star, he never won a championship with the team, he didn’t play his whole career here, and he is the key part of the worst sequence in team history. great guy, but he shouldn’t have his number retired. i think it’s a ceremony that should have great meaning and not be handed out just to have something to celebrate. ideally, it is a combination of all 4 of the following factors (i) longevity with the team, (ii) performing at a very high (all-star) level for at least a couple years, (iii) part of team success and (iv) likeable personality and community contribution.
everyone else that has been mentioned (penny, shaq, ho grant, DA, bo, tmac, skiles, dscott, hedo, etc.) are all part of our history, but none of them deserves to have his jersey retired.
(knocking on wood) dwight is a mortal lock to have his # retired for all the obvious reasons. jameer has a decent chance of earning that right, and rashard has an outside chance. rashard and jameer would be helped greatly by winning a championship.
I'm going to be writing all the posts, just a heads up.
I do think that after I’m done with the write-ups, people will change their tunes about a Magic player or two.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
oops, sorry, e. thought i saw ben on this one. must've mixed them up.
anyway, definitely looking forward to your further thoughts on it. as long as you don’t start advocating for the Big Egomaniac i’ll keep an open mind!
I'm not going to be advocating for or against a player.
All I will try to do is put the data out there and let everyone come to their respective conclusions.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
"Performing at an all-star level for a couple years" as a criterion will eliminate almost everyone
The sum total of Orlando’s multi-year All-Stars?
Shaq
Penny
Grant Hill
T-Mac
Dwight
Since McGrady, O’Neal, and Howard are still active players, their numbers shouldn’t be retired. I don’t think anyone would support retiring Hill’s number as a Magic player, and I personally don’t see Penny Hardaway getting his number retired, because he hasn’t been able to stay in the public’s awareness.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
agreed, and i think it SHOULD eliminate almost everyone
i could see exceptions to this rule, but only when all the other stars align appropriately. for example, say nick had made his ft’s, played well in the rest of the series and the magic had won the championship (and maybe gone to the finals the next year b/f everything broke down), then i’d think he’d be a guy you could make a good case for — b/c of his longevity here, his strong play, the team success, and his popularity — even though he wouldn’t have been an all-star. as it stands, i think he has too many strikes against him.
I would argue that Anderson's as significant to the Magic as Brad Davis was to the Mavericks
The first draft pick by the expansion team, had longevity, and (in Anderson’s case) is still involved with the team after finishing his playing career.
Not to be insulting to the dead, but he’s more deserving than Drazen Petrovic.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
You're on point, sir.
In fact, I will indeed use Brad Davis in my write-up.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
you know, in addition to nick, you might also be able to make a case for penny
to illustrate, let’s look at penny vs. shaq…
penny — with the magic for 6 years, all-nba FIRST team twice, 4 all-star games, won a gold medal while with the magic, was traded away (didn’t choose to leave), has not (to my knowledge) trashed the organization in any way.
shaq — with the magic for 4 years, all-nba second team once, 4 all-star games, had already announced that he was going to the Lakers b/f he won his gold medal, left loudly and voluntarily, has subsequently trashed the city of orlando, the coach of the team and it’s newer (better) superstar.
i’d CLEARLY honor penny over shaq. the more i think about it, i may also pick him over Nick. still not sure i’d retire his number, but you can make a decent case.
I hear what you're saying .
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
we are 1-8 in the finals and only 20 years old
Lets quit reaching….
by Will Said Skills Pay the Billz? on Aug 10, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions
Reaching for what? A case can be made for several Magic players to have their jersey retired.
That’s the entire purpose of his exercise, to open people’s minds to the possibility.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
It appears as though some people have already made up their minds.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
Lame. I'm only one person, but maybe I can change that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I'm down on the concept E
you’ve just spoiled us, so now I don’t say how excited I am as often.
But when I saw this I was very excited, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
I'm excited to write about it.
Good way to stir discussion, at the very least.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
And I'm excited to read about it.
Hey, I’m open to hearing what you have to say, and arguing (politely) and debating is fun. I just think that by considering retiring some of these jersey, we’re diluting the idea of what a retired jersey really means.
Eye of the beholder.
In the end, it’s a somewhat subjective process. I don’t think the idea of retiring a player’s jersey dilutes the honor, if there is enough evidence to back up the claim.
All in all, it’s something fun to talk about. I surely don’t expect everyone to agree, which is fine, as long as the conversation is engaging and fun-spirited, as well.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Success!!!
This is good peoples here! Perhaps my hiatus from all that is Magic since the loss has given me a more cynical attitude towards me Beloved Magic.
I still Say Skiles.
he was Cold.
by Will Said Skills Pay the Billz? on Aug 10, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
His number already belongs to "The Fans"
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
Too many burned bridges....
The problem with this franchise is that the players who should be considered to have there jersery retired left on rather ugly terms (Shaq, Penny, 3-D, Darrell, T-Mac).
I would hope the franchise mends this in some and the fans (still a bit green compared to most fanbases) learned to remember the good times. But it’ll be hard to. For example what if the Magic decide to retire the # 1 Jersey in honor of T-Mac and Penny (which has been done before in the NFL-See the Detroit Lions with # 20). It would be pretty akward to have that ceremony on a number of levels, but at the same time I cannot think of 2 more well known players who played in there prime and were popular while in Orlando.
Same deal with Shaq.
I guess you can reward Darrell and Dennis Scott, but are they REALLY that retirement worthy? And consider how bitter there exits from Orlando were, would they want to comeback?
One person I have no problem with retiring his jersey is Nick Anderson. I mean come on, he was the face of this franchise in the early years and was here for the first 10 years of his existence.
All this talk about him not being remembered because of 4 missed throws is frankly retarded and anyone who thinks that’s all his legacy is clearly only just started watching Basketball and is just going by running jokes. I don’t see how you can be an Orlando Magic fan and say no to Nick and it’s not like that game is all that his career was about. He had a damn good run here.
I would suggest doing some sort of franchise hall of fame ceremony where you retire/honor certain teams. For instance the 1995 squad or the 1999-2000 Heart and Hustle squad. Both gave the franchise a lot of positive media exposure and won the hearts of fans not just here but around the league.
"My features are that of a god, its not a facade these rappers wanna be NaS"- Nasir Jones QB's Finest
Kristin Kreuk is teh love.
Still miss em: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvgVn0gg1E
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