Otis??
by Bigsherm on Jul 8, 2009 11:02 PM EDT
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PrintAlright guys I want to know if everybody is like me right now worried!! Look Oits made a great move by us getting Vince and Ryan Anderson, but we also have lost a ton of role players. Look at Boston, Cleveland, and LA. They made some bold moves and really have not lost too much. I see DICE just went to the Spurs, Rasheed went to the Celtics, and where are our options now? Smith came out and said it the other day Big Baby is not on their radar. Other then Gooden and Bass there are not too many power forwards left out there. Guys are you with me or not us this? Otis you are killing me man we have to start acting before we get left in the dust!! I do not why our 4 all-stars are not out their recruiting like the big three. I would have thought watching Kobe and the Lake show hoisting the trophy on our court would make our team hungry, but instead we got Dwight playing with puppets and making a joke out missing those free throws!
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Seriously.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
WTF Otis!!!
I agree with you 100% Bigsherm. I am tired of seeing all these good players (best fits for us) going to other top teams!! One thing that the Magic should be asking is WHY do all these players pick other teams instead of Orlando to take them to the next level!! I thought money would not be a problem so that our team could win a champ. ring!! Looks like we might be watching from the sidelines/tv while these other 4-5 great teams that are stepping up are playing for the title. We go from a 1st or 2nd best team in the NBA to what looks like around 5th or 6th best!! GREAT MOVE MAGIC!! (Otis and crew).
If we don’t make some good moves SOON, Otis should be the next one that is traded!!!!!
I'm just going to say it, because I don't care ..
.. it’s easy to criticize Otis Smith when you have no idea of what’s happening behind the scenes. All your posts, since you’ve joined, have been criticisms directed towards him. For what? There’s thing called finances, there’s things called personalities, and a myriad of other variables that have to be taken into account when dealing with players. Wallace was never going to land here. Neither was McDyess. That’s the reality of the situation. Part of the issue was money, part of the issue was other things.
It makes no sense for the team to overpay for veteran’s that will last a year, maybe two, maximum. ‘Sheed has already admitted he has one, maybe two, years left in his career. I figure McDyess is in the same boat, too. So why would Otis offer the full MLE to either player for two or three years? That makes no sense. Look, I like both guys and I felt they would have been perfect fits for the team, but you have to be smart. The Magic have a young core. Time is on Orlando’s side. Will the franchise try to win it all this year? Of course, that’s why the Vince Carter trade was made. But at the same time, the organization is keeping an eye to the future because that’s what matters the most. Consistently winning.
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by erivera7 on Jul 9, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Personalities
I don’t think its about balancing personalities and other factors, its about the fact they went further than anyone ever expected and they couldn’t hold on to one of their key players. They adjusted on the fly and ended up with a good player in Carter but it cost them size and depth. Now the Magic are back to square one…they cant recruit players through free agency without overpaying or finding gems (which Turk was back in 2004). The Magic will only become contenders through the draft and trades. They didnt draft anyone and don’t have much trade value left. So Otis is trying, it’s just no one is biting. Cleveland, even with LeBron, is in the same boat. They’ve never signed a key free agent (Damon Jones doesn’t count) and resort to trades for everything. So its not some list of factors that Otis is balancing. If they sign Drew Gooden, who has earned a reputation as a cancer (and was one in Orlando), you’ll see that they don’t take personalities in consideration and are simply trying to keep up with expectations. And how long do you think Vince has to offer us?
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Two years
Which is realistically our window with Lewis anyway, before his (and the rest of the team) start to weigh our salary down with the back end of their deals.
This is a four All-Star team, to claim we’re back to square one is insanity. We’re two role players away from being right up there in the East, and we’ve got the most dominant big man in the league still improving.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 9, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
What I meant...
…by square one is that we are back to where we were before making it to the Finals. A very good team with a lot of potential that has to overachieve to gain national respect and facility in signing free agents. At that juncture, we still have to overpay for free agents as opposed to getting them at market value or for a bargain (because the player simply wants to win). There is absolutely no reason why the Lakers can get Ron Artest for less than market value and the Magic can’t do the same. Hence, there are other factors at play than the superstars on each team. Which is why I brought up Cleveland who also suffers the same way as Orlando. If I have to take a stab in the dark, guys dont want to play in places like Orlando or Cleveland. Please do not take that to mean I am compare city of Orlando to being on the same level as the city of Cleveland cause Orlando is definitely a much more appealing marketplace…the city just can’t shake its “small pond” reputation (ironic cause Shaq now plays in Cleveland). And if you want to talk San Antonio…well they have built a championship winning culture…and winning championships (not making it to the Finals) cures all. San Antonio couldn’t sign a free agent for their life in the 90s even with the Admiral. So they won by building through the draft and trades (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker…case in point). We’ll miss you Courtney.
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OK, I get you
I don’t think letting Hedo go has anything to do with us not getting free agents, though. We didn’t get Artest, Dice, or Wallace because we wouldn’t give the full MLE to one player. Not that I think we had any interest in Artest, mind.
We’re tight against what management will pay with Hedo or Vince – it’s just with Turk, we’re not-quite-as-tight against it, but for three years longer. Which means it’s that much harder to open another championship window after the Lewis one closes.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 9, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
The Magic didn't get Artest or whoever else because of the city.
That’s just a blind guess with no real support behind it, to be frank. I know why Orlando wasn’t able to land Wallace and McDyess. It definitely wasn’t the town that was the issue.
Neither player was going to come here, after I spoke to a few people.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
It's not that the Magic couldn't hold on.
.. it’s the fact the organization made a decision to acquire Vince Carter rather than re-sign Hedo Turkoglu. That was a calculated choice, made by the reality of Turk’s asking price.
Vince said it himself .. he feels he has a number of years left in the talk. For Orlando, all that matters is that he’s productive for the two year that he’s under contract. That’s all that really matters.
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Hence why I said...
…a stab in the dark. I don’t work for Magic management or am I in the media. But my original point was I don’t think they go through a list of factors, etc. Its not some calculated “moneyball” science. What I definitely know is that Wallace was on their radar (I don’t know about McDyess), and he chose to go elsewhere. Also, until the Magic win a title and become a winning franchise they won’t pull in free agents (without over paying) and to an extent retain them like the Pistons, Lakers, Spurs of the world. And that is beyond Otis’ control. By the way, is it possible for you guys to do a head to head Hedo/Vince comparison (unless you’ve already done it). I know that aren’t exactly the same players but Vince is replacing Turk in a sense and I would like to know how that stacks up. Thanks.
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A little while back, Ben wrote a post comparing Hedo and Vince a little bit.
http://www.thirdquartercollapse.com/2009/6/26/925899/orlando-magic-acquire-vince-carter
If that’s not enough, I’ll see what I can do with a post ..
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Awesome.
That’s what I was looking for. Thanks!
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No problem.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
....
Just wait until the season starts before deciding that Otis needs to be fired and our season is doomed. There’s a lot that goes into signing free agents and bringing the best players to our team and I have confidence that Otis is doing everything he can to fill out our roster with the best players available. I am disappointed with the way it seems we’re being left behind in the FA race but I’m waiting until our roster is filled out to make my final judgement call.
by Rebounder on Jul 9, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He's trying.
.. if people don’t think he is, then talk to me and I’ll tell you otherwise.
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Rebounder
I hear you!! Just another mad Magic fan blowing off steam about Otis and the non-activity that is being seen by the public that helps some what pay these big checks!!!!
Fingers are still CROSSED for saving this up in coming season!!
Just relax.
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
We have 5 spots to fill and only so much $ to spend
Have to be smart with our money. We’re better off splitting the MLE between two solid “need” players than overpaying for McDyess.
Only Rasheed would have been worth the full MLE, but even then we would have to fill out the roster with minimum salary guys.
Agreed. Great points.
.. everyone knows that I liked McDyess and Wallace, but again, it makes no sense overpaying them. They’re both near the end of their careers. That’s just not smart personnel maneuvering.
As you said, the Magic have a limited amount of money and roster spots to be filled. It takes time.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I believe that we'll be acquiring a pair of the 4...
….in my opinion, Otis is waiting to see what FAs will get anxious enough to sign on to a team with limited resource$.
Barnes, Gooden, Bass & Kleiza.
"Blue and white...ignite...* BOOOOOM * !!!!! - Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic playoff jumbotron message)
I think he's smart.
The market right now is getting really, really, really tight financially. As more and more teams spend and eliminate themselves as threats in free agency, that’s when I think Otis will strike and hunt for bargains.
That’s not a bad thing, either.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Apparently, not many people here have something called .. patience.
It’s a marathon, not a damn sprint.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Ok well patience.. I do not have them after my team was a lay up away and a free throw away from possibly winning a championship! Let’s see finances hmmm pay the damn luxury tax!! If you want to win you have go to play big sometimes. Look at Boston they are paying the luxury tax, but you know what they have the rings to back it up! Cleveland another example they are hungry the are putting all the tools necessary around him so he might have the chance to hoist a championship trophy. I have faith in Otis, but I think it is important that our team comes together and starts recruiting a bit as well.. I understand that he is letting these other guys sign all that other crap, but if you do not act soon Eviera the marathon will have come and gone!
Breathe... Count to ten..... ok, count to ten again....
Seriously dude. Way over the top. There’s fans and then there’s this guy. =)
We have all the options in the world now. That TPE just opened the potential door to darn near any player on any team that wants to either cut salary or end a bad relationship. How many good players in the NBA don’t like the situation they’re in right now? How many teams in the NBA are starving for money right now?
Finances? Boston and LA have been raking in the cash for decades. That’s why they can affor to pay more luxury tax than we can. You can be frustrated by that, but thems the rules. Just like the Yankees in baseball, there are going to be some teams that can just afford to spend more money.
I think Otis is playing the hand that he’s got about as well as it can be played right now. I’m impressed almost every time he does something. Next season is not lost. It hasn’t even begun. The Magic may not make the finals again. Would that be considered failure? Consider that most people didn’t expect them to make it out of the second round last year!
Let’s all smile, have a nice cool drink, and look forward to another year of great basketball in Orlando.
by farfromfl on Jul 9, 2009 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
just finished reading about the TPE and some cash!! Thats the first exciting thing I heard since the VC and RA. At least we now have something to work with in this marathon the team is running!!
Evivera7, I guess I need to follow your advice and show a little more patience!!
Question! Could the TPE be used to go after someone like a LO from the lakers!! Or is he still way out of our price range??
Can't use a TPE to sign a free agent. It has to be used in a trade.
And there is literally a greater chance of the Magic signing me to a 10-day contract than there is of the Lakers consenting to a sign-and-trade of Odom to the Magic.
by Evan Dunlap on Jul 9, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Odom's going to be overpaid anyway.
He’s not a volume scorer, he’s always relied on physical advantages which are likely to decline with age, his outside shooting is notoriously spotty, and his attention span has been suspect in the past. He’s a decent fourth starter type, and he’s on a team which needs a guy like him. But he’s also on a team that can pay a guy like him $8-10 million. We’re on a team that really can’t justify that expense for a fourth starter — if we could, we would’ve just brought back Hedo.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
wow, i see Odom is still getting the short end of the stick
Here is the reality:
The Lakers have ZERO and I mean ZERO chance of winning last year without Odom. This is coming for a die hard lakers fan. You are looking at everything from an offensive standpoint. I’m not. Looking at his entire game, he is a tremendous player. His defense was a necessary component to winning last year. Who do you think was responsible for the help defense which reduced Dwight Howard to only scoring 15 points per game in the finals, and shooting a very low (for him) 47% from the field? Who was responsible for covering your second best scorer Rashard Lewis? Rashard’s FG% dropped from 50% in the ECF to 40%. Lamar Odom’s defense and rebounding (9.1 per game in the playoffs, 10th place out of all playoff players, compared to Dwight’s 15 per game in the playoffs as #1).
But, if you want to talk offense with Lamar, we will. Lamar shot 54.2% from the field in the finals (higher than Dwight and Rashard) and 50% from 3pt line! During the playoffs he shot 52.4% from the field and 51.4% from 3pt line! He also averaged 1.4 blocks and 1.8 assists in the playoffs.
Look, Lamar is an all around versatile player who can do almost anything on the court. This guy’s defense/passing/rebounding are why i like him the most. But his offensive game is also very well rounded. Of course his 3pt shooting was much higher in the playoffs than in the regular season —however, he still shot 50% from the field in the regular season!
The numbers do not lie! Odom is the third most important player on the championship lakers. Without him, there is no chance that we win —-NONE.
He would do extremely well on any team. He can cover anyone from Dwight Howard to Rashard Lewis and Hedo on your team. In fact, I say he can guard ANY player on your team with success. His rebounding is absolutely excellent, especially if he is playing the 3, but even when he is playing the 4. I think that we beat your team this year for many reasons —who can discount Kobe --but rebounding was an essential key and Odom is the essential part of that stat.
I like Odom and I would agree that it would be tough for the Lakers to win without him.
Thing is, I think Los Angeles could ..
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Looking at it now...
Seems like the market for Odom isn’t that great currently so the Lakers have a lot of leverage now. From what I hear they are going to resign him though.
As they should.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I'm kinda torn on this topic
On the one hand, I realize a lot of this is out of Otis’ control. Despite the economic climate, teams are vastly overpaying for players and Otis is constrained by not having as much money to deal with as some of the other teams.
That being said, when he pulled this Carter trade, he had to realize that by doing so was essentially also saying good-bye to Hedo and Gortat. So while the actual deal was a 2-for-3, in many ways, it was a 2-for-5 financially. The problem lies in that while he had players on his radar screen, it was all purely guesswork as to who would sign.
I originally liked the Carter deal because I had faith we could fill out the bench with quality players. As those players are one by one getting snatched up by other teams, I am becoming more wary of the deal. Again, I realize when teams are throwing way too much money at a player, there is little Smith can do. I would have liked to have seen more progress made in filling some of those other needs before pulling the trigger on the trade.
I don't think the Carter trade equaled losing Gortat.
I think Gortat being a starting-quality center on a team that could only give him 12 minutes a game equaled losing Gortat. Given how badly the Howard-Gortat frontcourt generally worked out, he wasn’t going to get any significant minutes at PF next season… the guy’s a center, and good luck for him being a center in Dallas. If he plays there the way he played here, extrapolated to 30+ minutes, he’ll be a bargain.
I also feel like you can’t count Alston and Battie as players. Not that they’re not players, but Battie was insanely overpaid for a guy barely above replacement level, and Alston… well, he was probably paid pretty fairly. He’s an okay player. But like Gortat, he wasn’t going to get any playing time, and unlike Gortat, he posed a potential chemistry issue. Nothing against them, but odds are we gained more losing them than we would’ve gained keeping them — if some team had asked us, “all right, we’ll trade you nothing for Alston and Battie”, we would’ve done it. Guaranteed.
(Or think of it this way — over the luxury, players basically count double. That means we could pay two guys $6 million total, and we’d end up paying the same amount. You think we couldn’t find decent replacements for these two at $6 million total?)
Which leads us to the REAL end result: Lee and (hypothetical) Hedo for Carter, Anderson, and — let’s not forget — money. Look at these:
Carter $16 million, Anderson $1.3 million
Turkoglu $11 million (estimated), Battie $6.3 million, Alston $5.25 million, Lee $1.3 million
And that’s assuming that a) Hedo re-signs with us, and b) he does so for around the same amount Toronto is giving him. (Not a 100% certain assumption — you never know, maybe the Magic knew he wasn’t coming back anyway. In which case it’s Lee and the overpaid vets for Carter and Anderson… that’s a deal!)
Anyway, we freed up six and a half million dollars in salary here. (This season. It flips back in future seasons when Battie and Alston’s deals have expired. We’ll worry about it then.)
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
Gortat was gone, regardless of the deal.
.. the Vince Carter trade was made as a response to the prospects of losing Hedo Turkoglu.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I agree
I mean WTF Otis, at least keep it fair! You are embarrassing all your rivals and making a mockery of Parity!
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
I like Otis' (lack of) moves
I’d rather pick up two or three good players than one very good one and a bunch of scrubs.
He’s earnt our trust over the past two or three seasons, IMO. Apart from the Lewis contract, he seems to get things pretty right.
Did you forget about Brian Cook for Trevor Ariza???
He’s made some very bad moves on the Magic.. more good than bad however
by Souwantmyname on Jul 9, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That wasn't an awful move.
Mo Evans was better (for the Magic) than Ariza was at the time. Probably still, at least hypothetically — Ariza wouldn’t work in our system.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
It wasn't completely bad because he made up for it by getting Alston.
.. which in turn made acquiring Vince Carter a reality.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Meh
Ariza did well in a limited role for the Lakers, but he would have been stuck behind Hedo in our rotation and so not had the same impact.
It didn’t work out the way we’d all have liked, perhaps, but it’s not a terrible deal.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 10, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The TPE move is a blinder.
it’s better, in the long run, than anything we could have hoped for. With the cap being lowered again next year, people are going to want to dump salary. We garnered, essentially, a free player and extra cash from Dallas and T-Dot to pay out in case we have to go into the luxury tax.
We had $80m to spend on salaries, from what I hear. We’ve added some cash to top that up (say, $3-5m) I believe, with the cash and the figures of the TPE being touted, we have up to $13-15m to spend on getting this team filled out. We’re looking at youngsters and vets, both are cheap groups of FAs and, if we can,. probably get a solid vet or two, or a young stud at PF or SF for the TPE (which can be broken up).
We essentially got the best possible deal (besides S&T Hedo for Bosh!) and Otis has pulled an absolute blinder with this one.
Also, 4-way deal? When was the last time that bad boy happened?
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by big aaron on Jul 9, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Been a little while since a four-way dance went down.
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Otis interview??
Does anyone have a link that I can checkout that breaks down the Otis Smith interview that is on the nba.com/magic/2009_Orlando_Pro_Summer_League.html?? My speakers are wacked out and I could only get bits and pieces of this interview!!
Thanks!!
I don't think it's your speakers
I don’t get clear audio either. He also talks really monotone so that doesn’t help. Hopefully, Ben or Eddy can get a transcript. It was like a 6 minute interview.
Neither of us was able to catch Otis speak, sorry.
I was running around, talking to players and such .. I saw Smith, just didn’t get to talk to him.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
...
Thanks bandrewg08, I’m glad that it wasn’t just me thinking that I was loosing my hearing!! He is VERY monotone!!!
Time is on Orlando's side?
I’ve heard that one plenty of times in my life…not in regards to Orlando, but to any and all teams that have a young superstar. The reality of the matter is that championship windows are not open for long and come rarely. This is true for players and organizations. Just think back to 1995 when you last made the finals. How many of you (who were around back then) thought that you’d be back every year? I mean if you compare Shaq + a young Penny vs your current nucleus…well, i’m sorry but the current nuclues cannot hold a candle to Shaq+Penny. Even though I love Howard, a young shaq and Penny before injuries? We are talking about a Penny which people thought would be top 50 players of all time and Shaq who ended up being top 10 player of all time. Who do you have now? Howard/Rashard? Not even close.
What happened? Penny got hurt, chemistry died as pieces left, and the most important, Shaq was gone in 98. So just when you thought you were going to be in the finals EVERY year, you ended up going back to a lottery team.
I’m not saying that the same will happen with this Magic team. I’m just saying that championship caliber teams do not come around that often. You NEVER have time on your side. If you can wish a ring, you must take advantage and take advantage QUICKLY. VC is already in decline from his prime. Jameer and Howard are still here and young. Rashard is in his prime. What happens if Howard has a knee injury and loses his athletisicm? The guy you guys needed THIS year was Antonio Mcdysse. This guy, before his injury, was a Shawn Kemp clone. Shawn Kemp was known as the reign man because he could jump so high. Antonio could jump out of the gym! One of the most athletic guys i’ve ever seen play basketball. But then he ran into injuries and lost that athleticism. Luckily for him, he did not quit and improved his skills —rebounding/scoring/defense/etc. But i’m just saying, can you imagine a Howard that cannot jump out of the gym? He is completely raw. His dominance would be absolutely GONE and the Magic would be out of any hopes of championships.
Now luckily this is a rare possibility. However, not so rare is you losing Howard to free agency, just like you lost Shaq. Or losing Jameer/Rashard. Or losing VC to age, etc.
Championship caliber teams do not come together often. You guys should have given the MLE to Mckdysse! With him you had a chance to compete for a ring. Without him, or someone of his caliber, i don’t think so. At least not next year.
Otis needs to take advantage of what he has. Overpaying someone for a couple of million per year seems to be a little cost if the reward is a championship!
PS: I’m not a Magic fan. I’m a Lakers fan. Just giving my 2cents.
Why don't you worry about Kobe's age not VC's
Because the Lake Show is done when he is
by Souwantmyname on Jul 9, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Kobe is 30 and is highly skilled
Kobe, in my opinion, is the most skilled player i have ever seen. He doesn’t rely on his athleticism as much as he relies on his skills. Nevertheless, of course the lakers are done when Kobe is done. This is a GIVEN. No questions about it. However, when do you think that is? When will Kobe fall from MVP caliber? I think that Kobe has at least 3-4 more years of MVP quality left. That would make him 33-34. Michael Jordan, if memory serves, won his last Championship at 36-37! So it is possible that Kobe lasts just as long.
Again, MJ had incredible skill. Yet he relied on his athletisicm more than Kobe does, albeit slightly. Kobe cannot compare with someone like Lebron when you are talking about physical traits. Yet his skill and understanding of the game are unmatched. Skill wise —this means all the fundamentals like shooting/passing/dribbling/ etc. Everything you LEARN with practice. Kobe is better than Jordan. Jordan has the advantage with the mental side —albiet slightly —and the advantage physically.
All in all, I’m not worried about Kobe unless an injury happens.
The team did offer McDyess the full MLE. He just didn't come.
.. Otis wants to win, but he’s not going to risk the future. Not with Dwight.
I say that Orlando has time because the window of opportunity, really, is however long Howard is with the team. Having Jameer locked up helps, and clearly the team will have to eventually replace Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis, but I have complete trust in the organization’s ability to adjust on the fly.
Absolute, complete, unequivocal trust.
There’s a number of smart people in this organization and the stuff that happens behind the scenes would really surprise the average fan. The Magic know exactly what they’re doing. Seriously.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I’m actually glad Mcdyess didn’t take our offer. Granted he’s a good veteran player but I think we can get more value out of several players with the MLE spread out as opposed to spending it all on Mcdyess. Signing Bass and getting a solid swingman, possibly Barnes, would be to me better in the long run.
As someone who is also a Dolphins fan, I can relate
Dan Marino made it to a Super Bowl very early in his career. When he lost, most people shrugged it off, assuming a player of his caliber would naturally get back to the Super Bowl and also most likely win one.
Dwight’s a great centerpiece for the future and I’m going to love watching him play for many years. But just because we made the Finals this year, I’m not taking for granted that we’ll be back there again.
by Lee for three on Jul 10, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
And I just want to point out
I’m not trying to trash Otis at all. This seems to be a very divisive issue and I am standing firmly on the middle ground. It’s too early to pass final judgment because things aren’t done yet. But that goes both ways. It’s too early to dump on him for not bringing guys in, but it’s also too early to be exulting him.
With the way many of our top competitors have improved this off-season, if we are unable to bring in another quality player or two off the bench, it’s going to be hard to label this summer as a success. So if you are either fiercely pro-Otis or anti-Otis, you can’t put the free agency period into context yet until our 12-man roster has been finalized.
by Lee for three on Jul 10, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Good comment.
I think everyone just has to wait and see until September, when training camp begins.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Shaq left in the summer of 1996...
…when your team tampered with the signing rules and negotiated with him before July 1st. But you wouldn’t know that cause you started giving a crap (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say again)about the Lakers in the summer of 2000 after winning a title. Laker fans…you guys are worse than Red Sox fans. You go on this rant and can’t even get your damn facts straight. And worst of all, you don’t even know the year “your team” got one of their best players ever. I assuming you think they drafted Kobe in 98 as well. Yes the Lakers drafted Kobe, right? Why would a Laker fan be reading this blog anyways? Are you worried we’re bad mouthing the Lakers cause all the Magic fans are so envious and devasted? Get a life. Loved Kobe at the Michael Jackson memorial, he fit right in that event…just like he does with everything else. He can thank AEG for that.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
Shaq was always going to sign with LA
That’s not defending the Lakers, btw, that’s just pointing out that we’re talking about Shaq here. Shaq. Dude might as well be called the Big Mercenary.
by Worthy J. on Jul 10, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much.
Shaq to L.A. was inevitable. Didn’t help that the Sentinel posted that ridiculous poll asking whether or not O’Neal was worth the money .. oh well. It’s in the past. Let’s all just move on.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I didn't know
I didn’t know he offered the full MLE to Mcdyess. I guess he thought that the Spurs were just a better fit chemistry wise for him. He couldn’t possibly like the city San Antonion more than Orlando, lol.
Probably.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
You would know
And I would not know, lol…since i don’t follow the magic.
But it’s always great when you have a competent front office and organization. I’m lucky with the lakers as they are a premier organization with a very good owner and GM. As long as Orlando has a quality management team then I wouldn’t worry. I’m just saying that nothing is for certain and when you have an opportunity you better give it your all to make it happen!
You're right. Nothing is for certain and Lee made a great point with the Dan Marino comparison.
Going to the Finals is something that shouldn’t be taken for granted, because it might not happen again. I know for a fact Otis and the organization is doing everything it can to win now but also keep an eye to the future. That’s how you build a consistent, winning organization. That’s something the Magic value.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Well, the biggest factor is always going to be Dwight Howard.
First —is this guy going to get an offensive game or what? He needs one. The comparison is always made between Shaq and Dwight, but Shaq had a killer offensive game (ok, not killer, but you know what i mean). And also, Shaq was more dominant in that he was physically more gifted than Howard (that’s saying a lot). Of course I think Shaq is a top 10 of all time player, so that’s not saying anything bad about Dwight. But he really needs some skill on the offensive side. He needs to pick up some of Pau Gasol’s moves, lol. He would really be unstoppable if he could get the offense down. Obviously his game is different than Gasol, but maybe if he looked at how Charles Barkley did it on the offensive side of the ball.
Secondly, will you guys be able to keep Howard when he becomes a free agent? I don’t know the answer. I already brought up how Shaq left. Will Dwight stay in Orlando for the long term?
Dwight has an offensive game .. he's still improving.
.. and Howard is a much different person than O’Neal. I fully expect him to re-sign with the Orlando Magic.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Pretty sure a Sentinel poll
Would be overwhelmingly in favour of giving him max money, too.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Ponder this thought Laker fan...
The Lakers have had a star (except for those two years in the mid 90s before they pawned Shaq from the Magic) for my whole life. Had they not gotten Shaq, that team was in freefall. Without Shaq there wouldn’t of been Phil Jackson and Kobe probably wouldnt have developed properly (the guy as a rookie was so arrogant and uncontrolable, nothing’s changed really, that he’s hawking up airballs in the playoffs one after another). He truly benefitted from playing with seasoned veterans and a successful coach for the first 7 years of his career. Kobe coming to LA and not having Shaq would of been a completely different story. If you can’t admit that, than stop reading now. Anyways, let’s fast forward to the present…what do the Lakers do now for the future? Who replaces Kobe…what star do you pawn now or what team do you arm twist to steal their star through a trade? The Celtics had a decade of misery and the Lakers are bound to have one once Kobe’s gone. Only thing that will save them is DWade or LeBron honestly. Don’t think they’re ditching Kobe next summer for one of those guys. But with the breaks they catch, I wouldn’t be surprised if they somehow got one of them and kept Kobe. They need star power to succeed. In my 28 years I’ve seen two Laker lottery teams. In these next 10, I’m bound to see at least double that. And PS, I was around and paying attention when the Magic made it to the Finals in 1995. That was a smug comment for you to write…chances are there aren’t anymore bandwagon fans reading or posting on this blog. Plus they all stopped caring about the Magic two weeks ago.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, and Orlando Magic love...get it on Twitter : KingJafi29.
Alot of assumptions here
First off, you don’t know how Kobe would have fared. Neither do I. Seems like you think he wouldn’t be the player he is now but there are plenty of players who have played on crap teams to start that turned out great. Lebron, Jordan, Dwight were all players who came onto horrible teams (that’s why the teams got them in the first place) and turned out fine.
Another thing, every team in the league needs star power to succeed, if by success you mean championship contender. The Lakers’ situation is not a unique one. What will the Cavs do once Lebron leaves whether it be by free agency or retirement? Same with the Heat and Wade? Boston and their Big Three? Orlando and Dwight? Spurs and Duncan?
The only thing that makes LA unique is their history of prolonged success. The Lakers have been able to survive the fall of stars and continue making the playoffs year after year. Will the same happen after Kobe? Who knows? If it doesn’t and the Lakers become a lottery team for several years as you suggest, I, and all the other true fans, will continue to give them our support.
Hi KingJAfi
You have got some serious anger issues with the Lakers i see, lol. I suggest taking a deep breath and then you’ll realize that wishing ill will on others is not a good way to lead your life. Even if it is regarding something as inconsequential as basketball.
1) Lakers got shaq. Get over it man. It happened 13 years ago. I think that it’s time you let it go, lol.
Also, of course they would have been in “Free fall” as you call if they didn’t have shaq and Kobe wouldn’t have matured properly. Of course Kobe got “lucky” in the sense that he had a great crew of teammates and coaches to learn from. This is nothing new. It is what makes Kobe the player that he is.
2) I’m not sure where you get the nerve to call me a bandwagon fan with absolutely no evidence. In 1995 i was but a wee little freshman in highschool so i cared more about chasing hot ladies than i did about player trades in the NBA.
3) You contradict yourself. First by saying that the lakers will be nothing when Kobe leaves and then by basically saying that Kobe is worthless. All he does is chuck up airballs in the playoffs, huh? Have you looked at the statistics? He averaged 32.4 points, 5.6 rebounds and 7.4 ASSISTS in the finals. Only 1 other person has a better finals record than 32 points and 7 assists and that MJ. Only 2 other people have averaged 30+ points, 5+ rebounds and 5+ assists in the finals —-that’s MJ and Jerry West. Jordan and West is pretty good company for a loser who only chucks up airballs wouldn’t you say?
4) I’m reading this blog for entertainment purposes. After we won the championship this year i couldn’t just go cold turkey regarding basketball. I am still so pump up over our championship that i still need a basketball daily fix. Nevertheless, if it is against the rules for a non-magic fan to be apart of this board i will respect that. Just have one of the moderators tell me to “get lost.”
We're open to other fans posting on this site, as long as you're articulate and respectful.
I don’t want this discussion turning into a flame war, so just stop. This isn’t the venue for petty arguments.
Thanks.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
oh....and thanks for removing the w, t, and the f from the title of this thread.......really
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
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