Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel
Lets face it the top tier free agents are already committed elsewhere. Hedo to Toronto, Sheed to Boston and Kidd goes back to the Mavs. The Orlando Magic look to be taking a wait and see approach probably wanting the price tags for players to drop. Money is obviously an issue for the Magic since they are simply letting the Warlock walk out the door to the Mavs. Thus making Dallas the proud owners of the goofiest looking frontcourt in the NBA
The Magic are gonna need to find 2 proven NBA players in free agency which would give us a solid 8 man rotation. I am counting on JJ to be a solid contributor next year which I will most certainly regret. That being said I made a list of players that I feel have some real upside for bargain basement prices.
PG - Ronnie Price (UTA), Lindsey Hunter (CHI), Damon Jones (MIL)
SG - Von Wafer (HOU), Marquis Daniels (IND), Rodney Carney (MIN)
SF - Matt Barnes (PHX), Walter Herrmann (DET), Ime Udoka (SAN)
PF - Channing Frye (POR), Chris Wilcox (NY), Sean May (CHA)
C - Johan Petro (DEN), Zaza Pachulia (ATL), Chris Mihm (MEM)
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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I'm going to put my money behind Marquis Daniels
as the best player on that list behind the universally recognized Matt Barnes. I’d be perfectly happy to have either player.
Daniels filled in admirably for Mike Dunleavy this last year while he was injured. If we’re going to look at his stats, we need to be looking at last years stats, not his career stats, because he really came out of nowhere and turned a corner in his career.
I’m a fan of Walter Hermann as well, based on what he showed toward the end of 2006-07. He’s gotten no run since then, which has surprised me, but sometimes there’s a reason for these things. Largest hands on a living human being though. Not kidding…
you know what they say about guys with large hands....
they were large gloves
"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC
I am going with...
Gooden, whom you didnt mention, Barnes, Wilcox, Pachulia, Frye and Marquis.
"Blue and white...ignite...* BOOOOOM * !!!!! - Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic playoff jumbotron message)
My $0.02
Ronnie Price – Highly athletic, but couldn’t shoot a fish in a barrel. He’s almost a slasher PG, which could be useful, but I don’t like his lack of range.
Lindsey Hunter – No. Just flat out no. Think an older, worse Anthony Johnson. Dude is done.
Damon Jones – He doesn’t turn it over, and he is a decent 3 point shooter, but that’s it. Slow, can’t penetrate, doesn’t rebound, low assist rate, hideous FT%…again, much inferior to AJ.
Von Wafer – Kid’s got some upside. Not a great FT shooter, and his decision making still has me scratching my head at times, but as a backup 2 guard? I’d consider it.
Marquis Daniels – horrible 3 point shooter (but good slasher), gets assists only on days not ending in Y…I don’t hate him, but I don’t think he fits in Orlando
Rodney Carney – decent 3 point shooter, hit-or-miss FT shooter (68% for his career). Averages under 1 assist per 40 minutes. He can play defense, though, which is a plus. Just don’t expect too much offensive contribution.
Matt Barnes – Maybe. He’s a smaller Turkoglu, with decent shooting and good handles. I could see him working.
Walter Herrmann – I like him, but not in our system. He’s a set shooter who’s not great in motion, and he’s a defensive liability at the 3 (speed) and 4 (size). D12 mitigates that, but I’d rather have Barnes.
Ime Udoka – Meh. He’s in decline at age 31, and won’t shoot much over 30% from range, and he’s never been a good FT shooter. I think he’s under the barrel, not scraping the bottom.
Channing Frye – A young Tony Battie, but he doesn’t rebound as well and fouls more. Only worth getting if he’s dirt cheap.
Chris Wilcox – One of the few people who makes Howard look like a good free throw shooter. No range. He’s a slightly smaller, slightly weaker, not-as-good-defensively Howard. He’s great for a team that needs an inside presence and a pick-and-roller, but he’s another one I’m not sure fits us.
Sean May – Not unless he goes on The Biggest Loser. No insult intended (I’m a bit heavier than I should be too), but his weight is contributing to his injuries. He’s a defensive liability because he’s not mobile. If he can drop about 20 pounds, I like him.
Johan Petro – Very long shot. I mentioned him earlier, but after looking over some clips, I’m not sure he has any offensive potential.
Zaza Pachulia – I’d like to have him. The main downside might be cost – I’m sure a lot of other people would like to have him too. He’s also not a great defender, but he’d be adequate.
Chris Mihm – I’d take him. Again, a good but not great defender, and his scoring touch hasn’t completely recovered post-surgery, but he’d be a servicable back-up to Dwight.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Petro is terrible .. Pachulia is better than him.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
is it bad?
that we essentially need players at every position? that can’t be a good sign
"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC
I don't think we really need a PG or a PF...
Both would be nice, but aren’t “ZOMG we’re dead” requirements. We do need a SF and a C at a minimum, and personally I’d like to have a SG in case JJ reverts to form. We need four more players to meet the minimum roster, and we might as well look at who’s available at each position.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
i think
we need a pg more than a sg. I am just not fully comfortable with a declining AJ and this is someone who is a fan of him.
"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC
by Matt Bishoff on Jul 8, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
True, but I'm not sure how much AJ's really declining...
Other than his assist rate (thank you, point forward), his stats were pretty dang stable. His Pts/40 was higher last year than since 05-06, his Reb/40 highest since 04-05, and his turnover ratio has been 11.7 for the last three seasons. His TS% dropped, but his 3PT% was higher than any year except 07-08. It’s possible he’ll tank next year, but it looks like he’s hit a “reverse plateau” in his stats, where he’s not really getting any worse.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
I don't think A.J. will decline much, if at all.
.. he only needs to play roughly 15 minutes a night.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
No.
.. I’m not a fan of Gooden, by the way.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
hey
Who are you a fan of? For what we are willing to pay, there really isn’t much out there.. I know you like Dice, but we aren’t willing to give up the MLE.
So what are our options?
I am just thinking of guys who some what fit the mold.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Barnes would be okay. Ditto with Pachulia but I don't think he's a realistic signing.
I like Bass, obviously McDyess .. there’s a few players that intrigue me.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I would like to see Zaza and Barnes if they are cheap.
Gooden too, but Zaza has more toughness and attitude. He is not a fan of KG, and he doesnt hide it at all, thats good. Someone who will go down there and bang with KG, Perks, and Sheed with Dwight.
MLE is $5.6m or so
We could give Zaza $3.1m and Barnes $2.5m.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 9, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's all repeat this 100 times:
I am counting on JJ to be a solid contributor next year which I will most certainly regret.
Then it maybe won’t happen.
I'd like to see the Magic snag Von Wafer
If you don’t know who he is think Bizarro Courtney Lee. Extremely gifted on the offensive end but still works hard on the defensive end minimizing mistakes. I think he could be great for us as a key bench player or a starter. If we start him we can slide VC over to the 3 and still have Pietrus as our 6th man.
The Magic really need to jump on this since we lost our youth (Gortat,Lee) in this offseason. Von brings both youth and ability and probably for not much $
I'd be for it. Why haven't we been targeting a Starting SG?
I know we have VC pegged as the 2 and MP as the 3, but VC is taking over Hedo’s role as the point-forward type and has played the 3 before. By starting him at 3, we just need to find a decent defensive 2-guard to hold down the spot, like how Courtney did or even like how Denver used Dahntay Jones. This moves MP back to his playoffs super-sub role for both positions.
To me, Barnes is one of the few perfect SFs left for this team, but if he is gone, getting a guy like Wafer or Daniels might end up being a cheaper option AND somewhat mirror last year’s lineup.
interesting ideas i like. I like Wafer, but he is not a defender or passer I think. Magic can look at starting SGs now maybe..
Didn't get a chance to look at the FA's when I wrote that
But I took a look at the the Basketball Prospectus Rankings of FA’s that Ben put up (Thanks).
http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=715
Some names that intrigued me that could be had for less than MLE: Anthony Parker, Dahntay Jones himself, Quinton Ross, Gerald Green, and drum-roll please….. Keith Bogans.
I know these guys aren’t starting quality anymore, but I think all we need is a decent stop-gap starter that will allow MP to come off the bench and not have us rely on JJ so much. Personally, I would love to have Bogans back.
My take
Parker – can still hit that 3ball. Worth a 1-yr flier, maybe, but I’m not a huge fan.
Jones – for near the minimum, sure. He understands his (considerable) offensive limitations.
Ross – No objections.
Green – Nope. Flamed out everywhere he’s been.
Bogans – third time’s the charm!
I like Bogans
Although, if we could get Super Mario for cheap, I wouldn’t mind him either. He’s a good defensive guard who can block, steal, and rebound. His shooting isn’t good, but I could see having Mario and JJ as the backups, with JJ coming in when his lack of foot speed won’t be a liability, and Mario coming in when we need to shut down the other team’s SG.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Indeed.
From Basketbawful
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Not a fan
Needs to build up his bball IQ. Slow on defensive rotations and defense is probably going to be his calling card in the league.
"Dwight Howard couldn't score 40 points in a game if he was going against Yi Jianlian's chair." Bill Simmons chat 5/20
"I don't feel this team can beat us four times," Mo Williams 5/21
Terrible player.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
My top 3
How come no one likes Linas Kleiza? He seems like a perfect fit in our system. Hits the 3, can play the 3 or 4, good rebounder, good production off the bench.
Kleiza, CJ Watson, and Chris Mihm our my top 3 guys. Looks like Richardson is coming back and Hendrix from the summer league team.
"Dwight Howard couldn't score 40 points in a game if he was going against Yi Jianlian's chair." Bill Simmons chat 5/20
"I don't feel this team can beat us four times," Mo Williams 5/21
I like the player, I just don't think we can afford him.
He is great fit, but the money has to be right.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
I like him, just don't think it's a realistic signing.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Normally I'd agree
but it seems like, in this market, players are going for alot less than in the past. If Bass hasn’t gotten the full MLE like his agent said, then it seems plausible that Kleiza could be obtained for less than the MLE as well. Some thing like 10-11 million for 3 years wouldn’t be bad, imo.
AGREED
If we could add a bench player like that would be a good move. Depending on how Peitrus plays as a starter they could flip flop roles..
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Remember, despite some fouling issues MP later improved on, he was playing really well as a starter in the beginning of last season.
Oh I do..
I just wonder if he is Manu type, who over the long haul is a better player coming off the bench.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
The market is going to get tight.
Guys like David Lee and Paul Millsap are really going to get screwed, because of it. If they’re going to get screwed, then imagine second-tier & third-tier free agents. They’ll be bargain hunting, too.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Yup
Paul Millsap especially, what with Boozer not opting out. There are bargains to be had out there for smart front offices. I think this summer, we’ll see a clear divide between competent FO’s that realize the state of the market and pick up players on the cheap and the bad ones that will bid against themselves and overpay.
If we got Milsap
I would dance in the street. He is worth sliding Rashard down for.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
I'd disagree. I like Millsap but he would be a terrible fit.
.. his inability to spread the floor would really hamper the spacing SVG desires.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
WHY
I just don’t get it.. Why do you need 4 guys seating at the 3 point line? You can get spacing with 3 legit, 3 point threats.. Look at the magic teams with Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott. Milsap has nice mid range jumper you have to respect. If Dwight plays up to his ability he creates all the spacing we need. Plenty of open looks for our shooters, but our rebounding, and interior defense improves.
I think Stan is a good enough coach to get it done with 4 All-Stars and quality Power Forward.
Please explain to me how he hampers spacing? I need example of team with a Beast of big man and shooters like we have.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
It hampers the spacing because ..
.. Howard needs the entire paint to work with so the Magic can execute the pick and roll with him to its absolute maximum. If you have Millsap roaming around the paint, that stymies that play a bit, likewise with the 4-out, 1-in offensive set ..
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The pick and pop should work well with Milsap/Bass
Because they knock down the mid-range jumper. If you want to space the floor with a big man who can shoot the mid range that can work too. You put Milsap/Bass at the free throw extended, Shard at the top of the key, VC and Jameer will be on the wings..
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
I don't think we'll get him for that
He’ll be closer to $4m p.a. I suspect.
I like him fine, if we can get him for $10m/3y or less he’d be a fine pickup.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 9, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
“As a capable three-point shooter who can play either forward position, Linas Kleiza will have a job in the NBA for a very long time. He’s the kind of player who could fall through the cracks this year in free agency and end up a bargain, whether for the Nuggets or someone else if Denver is fearful of the luxury tax. Matt Barnes started 40 games in Phoenix and averaged double-figures for the first time in his career, but it wasn’t an especially strong campaign in terms of advanced stats. To boost his True Shooting Percentage, Barnes is going to have to start hitting three-pointers at a better clip, having made 29.3 percent and 34.3 percent the last two years in more than 500 combined attempts.” -Basketball Prospectus, which also liked Dahntay Jones and Ime Udoka.
Would love to see Magic snatch Kleiza, thatd be a steal right now w/ the market slowing down hitting reality.
Never know. As I always say, Otis likes to play things close to the vest.
You never truly know what he’s thinking or who he’s targeting.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I'd love to see Bogans back.
Yeah, he had that shooting slump early last season. Big deal. He’s a smart player and a tough defender, and he has a three-point shot to keep the defense honest. And those are the qualities that matter as you approach the end of the bench.
Beyond that… I’m okay with Barnes, as he’s a guy who can be plugged in to fill a lot of spots. I don’t think you mentioned anyone else I’d be especially interested in. I still say Mensah-Bonsu is a steal, but I don’t see him discussed anywhere, so maybe it’s a foregone conclusion he’s going back to Toronto?
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
Why start with bargains, there’s Lias Kleiza and Grant Hill still. And they’re potential starters instead too.
Reply: To why start with bargains
Because the Magic currently have 8 guys on the roster. O_O
by Souwantmyname on Jul 9, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding me?!?!
Keith Bogans is a terrible defender! He got owned by everyone we asked him to guard.. Do you not remember the game where Rudy Gay beat us cause we put our “stopper” on him. Get real people he was a terrible defender with a lousy outside shot.
I was jumping in the streets when we traded him away not because we got Lue but because we just got rid of a terrible player
by Souwantmyname on Jul 9, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Bogans wasn't terrible on defense.
.. simply average.
This season with Orlando ..
- adj. defensive plus/minus: +1.5
- opponent PER vs. SG’s: 16.2
- net defensive plus/minus: -0.5
- eFG% allowed: 45.2%
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Why so many Bogan's apologist
he was terrible there is no getting around it. The proof is by how many teams he keeps bouncing from year to year
I HATE BOGAN’S! I HATE ’EM!!! I HATE EM!!! I HATE ’EM!!!
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
He wasn't very good for us this year, no.
But he was better last year. In 06-07 and 07-08 combined, he was a 37% three-point shooter. And while he’s not the world’s best defender, he’s not a liability either. And I’m not advocating making him a starter or anything — I’m saying maybe we stow him alongside Redick. They’re both very hot-and-cold guys… one goes cold, you bring the other in as a backup. I wouldn’t pay much more than the minimum for him, but last year notwithstanding, he’s a decent 12th man.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
I agree
Why do people like Bogans, but shoot down much better players who are mentioned on this site.. I don’t get it. BOGANS does nothing good.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Dang it...
Looks like our bargain fa centers go down to 2… Petro is a young, 7’0 ft, mobile and can block some shots. He is a project that I think Ewing and the Magic should take on. Sign ‘em to alot of years though so another Gortat situation doesn’t arise
Petro sucks. The Magic are better off with Hendrix, who's young and has upside.
I know for a fact Orlando isn’t looking at Pe-terrible.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Eh
Don’t want to be paying a guy who can’t contribute.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 10, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You want the Magic to play Hendrix at center
didn’t you also want the Magic to sign Bass?? Man why do you want an undersized center so bad. They both would get rolled consistently playing C
A third-string center isn't a center. A third-string center is an insurance policy.
And Hendrix is an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than Bass — you don’t need to be THAT tall when you’re 265 lbs.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
Hendrix has the size and strength to play center.
That’s why it’s his position and it’s why he would do just fine backing up Dwight Howard.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I'll add that I've seen him play and I like what I see.
.. I take it not a lot of other people can say the same thing around here.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Hendrix.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
This wasn't addressed to me
but Ratliff has nothing left… While hendrix is very young and very cheap. Plus I heard he’s built like a house

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