Discussing Vince Carter, Ryan Anderson, and the Orlando Magic with Dave D'Alessandro of The Star-Ledger
A few days after the Orlando Magic acquired Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson from the New Jersey Nets in exchange for Rafer Alston, Tony Battie, and Courtney Lee, I contacted Dave D'Alessandro to discuss the trade. Dave, who covers the Nets for The Star-Ledger, is regarded as one of the best local beat writers in the business. He was kind enough to answer some questions of mine via email.
Third Quarter Collapse: The two main concerns in Orlando about the trade both pertain to Vince Carter. In your estimation, can he competently fill the role Hedo Turkoglu had for the Magic as a secondary offensive facilitator/primary perimeter scoring threat? And is there any chance he'll quit on the Magic the way he did on the Raptors a few years ago? (I think this point is vastly overstated, largely because no one from the Nets organization will say anything negative about him).
Dave D'Alessandro: Last thing first: Whether you think he "quit" on the Raptors is irrelevant, because a new team and challenge is likely to invigorate even the most melancholic of players--and Vince doesn't hide the fact that he was fed up in Toronto. Can happen to anybody, when the coach benches you in fourth quarters, as Sam Mitchell did throughout Nov/Dec of 2004. And he's long since rebuilt his image as a professional of the highest order. As for part A: He won't play like Hedo, because he's not really like Hedo, other than the fact that they both are adept at screen/roll so they can run the mismatch (PG) into the post. But he's never had the opportunity that Hedo has had -- specifically with regard to playing alongside quality bigs. Think about it: Until Brook Lopez came along last year, the best big man Vince ever got to play with was a 34-year-old Antonio Davis. Being teamed with Dwight will not only give him a new lease on life, it will probably extend his career. Both have the skills to run the point, but Hedo is not in Carter's class as a scorer.
After the jump, Dave's thoughts on the Magic's prior efforts to acquire Carter, the Eastern Conference arms race, Ryan Anderson's potential, and more.
3QC: Otis Smith has not made a secret of his admiration of Carter. What, if anything, can you tell us about prior negotiations between the Nets and Magic regarding Carter? And what held those up?
D'Alessandro: Actually, I'd say Otis's admiration of Carter a very well-kept secret, because tagging him as "fool's gold" wasn't exactly a compliment. He uttered that famous phrase in Feb. of '07, when the Nets and Magic were discussing a deal sending Carter to Orlando. The Nets weren't sure they wanted to commit to VC long-term -- he was to be a free agent that summer -- so they thought they'd try to find a team that would bundle some useful young pieces. When they summoned the chutzpah to ask for Hedo, Darko and J.J., Smith unwisely scoffed publicly, "I wouldn't give up a 21-year-old big man for a 30-year-old guard. I don't think I'd give up on Darko that fast. I don't know that I'd give up on J.J. (Redick) that fast, or give up on Turk (Hedo Turkoglu). I'm not going to take a step back and fall for what I call fool's gold. It shines and it glitters, but it just doesn't stick or pass the test." In an admiring way, I guess.
3QC: Based on the timing of the deal, some pundits have speculated that the Magic only did it as a response to the Cleveland Cavaliers' acquiring Shaquille O'Neal. As I understand it, negotiations for Carter began before the Shaq trade, so it would seem as though it was a proactive, not reactive, move. Then again, based on Smith's comments about Courtney Lee being a sticking point in the trade, the truth could be that the O'Neal trade convinced Smith to take the plunge with Carter. Which assessment is most accurate?
D'Alessandro: Not sure if it matters, Ben. Even if you're a defending conference champ, if you're not moving forward and upgrading your roster wherever you can -- and that involves paying the price of doing business -- you're falling behind. How comfortable can any team be in the East, where five different teams have reached the show in five years? Even the Lakers know this, which is why Artest replaces Ariza and they go into every summer thinking not about back-to-backs, but Dynasty. And Demoral.
3QC: What are your thoughts on Ryan Anderson, in general? Does he have a bright future in this league?
D'Alessandro: Ryan: Great kid, quick study, well-bred, slight sense of entitlement, bright future, and his 3-point percentage should soar being the second pass out of those Dwight doubles in the post. Think a tougher, more determined, more versatile Pat Garrity, just not quite as pure. Remember, though, he's only 21. Once he learns team defense, and improves his lateral quickness, you'll have a player.
3QC: Finally, is there anything else we should know about either player? Certain good and bad habits? Anything we might be surprised to learn?
D'Alessandro: Kind of hard to summarize the 10 (mostly illustrious) seasons of Carter's career, other than to note that he has -- with very few slips -- brought honor and class and unmatched pyrotechnics to the league that values all three. OK, maybe you don't know this: Of all the superstars you might encounter in this ego-driven business, you might not meet another guy who is more accessible, approachable, affable, and agreeable. Some say that part of his personality lacks the competitiveness or edge he needs to be one of the greats. To which I say: I don't care. To be great in this league, you have to have two things: Consistency, and the ability to do it late. I'd put Vince in the "pretty damn good" category, and a likely Hall of Famer for helping save the league in the post-Jordan age. But I also admire him for not chasing an image, or trying to live up to the expectations, or seeing himself only through the eyes of others. He's very comfortable in his own skin, and for someone of his accomplishments, that's the best measure of the man.
Thanks once again to Dave for his time and consideration in answering our questions. Check out his Nets coverage for The Star-Ledger here.
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Comments
Wow!
Great read Ben. That Dave is very smart, to me atleast. It was very interesting to hear him talk about Vince and R.A. I loved the Hedo-Vince compare/contrast question and the when he talked about teams constantly improving themselves always.
He makes a valid point about constantly improving as a team.
You can never settle for anything, if you’re a franchise.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I saw the two words I most dreaded in that assessment of Anderson...
Pat Garrity. When I read Anderson’s talent assessment, Garrity popped into mind as a worst-case comparison.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Great interview
…Yes, the Pat Garrity comparison brings chills to every Magic fan (which raises the question, who’s more terrifying(ly bad)? Pat Garrity or Brian Cook?). Still, a tougher, more versatile Pat Garrity might not be so bad (although that description even applies to me, and I would be bad).
by gift of the magi on Jul 6, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions
Hah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
a better version of pat garrity
would probably do alright in our system if he learned how to play defense
Nah' mean, nah'm sayin
He'll learn, especially under Stan Van Gundy.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Garrity
Not to compare him to Ryan Anderson; for one thing, he could never rebound, whereas Anderson obviously can. But as bad as Garrity was during his last few seasons, after that injury, he was actually a pretty decent player before that. In his first 4 seasons with the Magic, he was an effective three-point shooter… made over 160 of them in two consecutive seasons.
Granted, his defense and rebounding were always weak points. (Though Anderson’s rebounding is already better! And I can’t imagine his defense is that bad…) And he probably never should have started. But I’ll take a guy with Garrity’s offensive game coming off the bench. Especially if, like Anderson, he supplements that three-point shot with the ability to get inside and do some stuff there. As worst-case scenarios go, I’ll take “a young Pat Garrity + rebounding” any day.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
Anderson's floor is a decent role player, his ceiling is higher.
David Thorpe thinks he’ll be a player. I’ll take his word for it ..
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Anderson vs Garrity
Since Anderson’s only played 1 year, this is a rookie comparison:
Stat – Anderson – Garrity
GP – 66 – 39
MPG – 19.9 – 13.8
FG% – 39.3 – 50.0
3P% – 36.5 – 38.9
FT% – 84.5 – 71.4
STL – 0.7 – 0.2
BLK – 0.3 – 0.1
REB – 4.7 – 2.0
TO – 1.0 – 0.5
AST – 0.8 – 0.5
PF – 2.4 – 1.6
Rookie Anderson’s not as good a shooter as Rookie Garrity, but he does dang near everything else better – more blocks (although still low), more rebounds, and more steals. He also turns the ball over more, and gets more fouls, but I like the potential there.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
by The Dark on Jul 6, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Hard to Compare..
when there’s so little data to look at. Plus, you probably should’ve adjusted the stats to contribution per min. since Anderson played more minutes than Garrity. Obviously his stats would be higher when he played more minutes.
Per 48 Minute numbers:
Anderson – Garrity:
Steals – 1.69 – 0.70
Blocks – 0.72 – 0.35
Rebounds – 11.34 – 6.96
Turnovers – 2.41 – 1.74
Assists – 1.93 – 1.74
Personal Fouls – 5.79 – 5.57
I’ll take Anderson ;)
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
by The Dark on Jul 6, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The comparison isn't close.
I don’t think people should take the Garrity comparison the wrong way .. it’s just a comparison.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Oh, I agree
It was just…creepy…that when I first looked at Anderson’s numbers and his assessment from a couple friends back up in Philly, my first thought was “Pat Garrity,” and then D’Alessandro used the same player as his parallel. Nothing against Garrity, but he was a very marginal NBA talent.
Personally, I’d put Garrity as the floor (or close to it) for what Anderson develops into. Particularly if he works on his conditioning and general athleticism, Anderson could be a strong bench player to a middling starter. I don’t think he’ll ever develop into a star player, but the dude did lead the PAC-10 in scoring in ‘07-’08. Mayo was second, Bayless was third, and Lopez fourth. He was also the third-leading rebounder, behind Brockman and Love. There’s definitely some upside there.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
I'm sure Ryan will continue to improve.
.. he seems eager to, when I spoke to him yesterday.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
d'alessandro
really is one of the best beat writers around. always quality stuff from him up here when reading from the ledger.
www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04
Yeah, Dave is one of the best.
.. I highly respect his work.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Great read!
Thanks for sharing Ben.
D’Alessandro and Fred Kerber are the two best beat writers for the Nets, and it was a pleasure to read what Dave had to say.
I have higher hopes for Ryan, although I was surprised that Dave noted he has a small sense of entitlement. That’s the first time that’s been mentioned in Net-land, very curious.
With Vince, he echoes, more eloquently than most, how many Nets fans and people in the organization feel about him. When he first came over, it was with bad blood with TO. He may have been immature then, but he has become one of THE class acts of the NBA.
He never complained about his situation, like Jason Kidd, and to a lesser extent, Richard Jefferson did. He embraced his role and did everything asked of him. When Devin Harris came, he had no problems giving him the spotlight and the shot attempts. He became a real leader on the Nets, and last year may have been the season where he most deserved an All-Star appearance for his leadership and almost leading the 30th place predicted Nets into the playoffs. His teammates loved him and I’m positive the Magic will as well.
I don't think the 'sense of entitlement' comment is anything to get wrapped up about.
I was able to speak with Ryan Anderson today and he was cordial, polite, and an open individual.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Yeah that's what I expected. Ryan's a good guy to have on a team.
BTW, your job is awesome. :)
by thermodynamic on Jul 7, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm grateful to be able to cover the Magic, definitely.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

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