Vince Carter or Hedo Turkoglu? No question indeed.
by SimpleTruth on Jul 5, 2009 2:39 AM EDT
49 comments
What does Hedo contribute to the Orlando Magic better that Vince Carter cannot? When Boston and LA defenses overload the Orlando Magic... Hedo's size, passing ability neutralizes this defensive strategy and allows him to pass/swing the ball to an open man quite easily. If teams do not overload, he has the ability to get into the lane and produce a high percentage shot. This is pretty much the reason why Hedo Turkoglu becomes a great mismatch for teams especially during the fourth quarter.
Compared to Hedo, Vince Carter is more athletic, faster, a better shooter, passes better and can even excel shutting his opponent down as evidenced by his ability to shut down Kobe Bryant. When motivated Vince Carter can become an excellent defender. Orlando did best on slowing down Kobe Bryant. Vince Carter shall only improve their defenses against other two guards in the league. Sure, Vince Carter makes the Magic a more 'traditional' team... and he must rely on his athletic and ball handling ability to create his own shots. Like Kobe, Hedo Turkoglu has the ability to be one of the best defenders and has to pick his spots, play smart and save energy to make clutch plays down the stretch.
Yes, Vince Carter has long been considered a much greater talent than Hedo Turkoglu and joining the talented Magic will and shall allow him to focus on defense, making smarter decisions with the ball and allow himself to create higher percentage shots. Vince Carter has been the focal point of defense in Toronto and New Jersey. Playing in Orlando shall give him the space and relieved pressure to produce efficiently.
So, back to my point... Orlando loses the mismatch they once had... but they gain one of the league's most talented swingmen. His lack of great teammates can allow us to forget how great a talent he truly is. Due to his consistency and defense, he has always been a better player than Jason Richardson, Tracy McGrady, Richard Hamilton, the current Ray Allen and an injury prone Manu Ginobili. .
The only 2 guards who are better than he are in this order... Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant and Brandon Roy. Joe Johnson only has a 'slight' edge over Vince. The Magic are obtaining the 5th best 2 guard in the NBA. Hedo Turkoglu? Clearly NOT the 5th best player at the 3. He is dwarfed by Lebron, Carmelo, Durant, Granger, Iguodala and Pierce. At "best" he is the 7th best Small Forward in the league. Also, if he traded roles with Ron Artest... I highly doubt Hedo Turkoglu can lead the Rockets to 7 games against the Lakers sans Yao Ming. He couldn't even lead the Magic to 6 against the Lakers. Hence... he is the 8th best small forward in the league.
Hedo Turkoglu will be quickly forgotten with Vince Carter onboard. Orlando's only true threat is their thinning depth (which can easily be fixed with a few NBA salary exceptions) and health issues. Other than that, they are still clearly better than the Cleveland Cavaliers (plus Shaq). Since Jameer Nelson shall be a force to be reckoned with, Dwight shall improve his protection of the ball and hopefully his free throws, and like Lamar... Rasheed shall not disappear in clutch situations, then again he has Jameer and Vince who can better create shots with their ball handling skills and just needs to be open.
All these combined, barring a blockbuster trade or major free agent pickups by Cleveland or Boston. Orlando shall return to the finals once again.
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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One point -- on the poll.
We really need a backup at the 3 more than at the 2… Redick is presumably our backup SG, so we’re set there.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
trade redick
redick hasn’t shown anything worth of any PT, we could get the mismatch again next year for a draft pick let’s say drafting monroe or brackins
and maybe we can set sights on eventually changing PG nelson will always be injured
I agree...
Yes, Orlando has Redick. He does make threes. He was surprising defensively against Kobe.
However, he missed more threes than expected.. made bad passes and bad decisions at KEY moments. In the long haul… Orlando needs another long athletic player who can play the 2 or 3.
Players like Trevor Ariza, Mickael Pietrus and Courtney Lee are examples of role players who have length and athleticism put to good use.
I don't think Redick is worth as much on the market as you seem to think.
He’s a decent backup, but pretty clearly not much more than that. Nobody is going to give us a first-round pick for him — maybe a second-rounder. And we’d probably have to take on a contract. Anyway, we don’t have a single backup wingman on the roster, so why would you not just hang onto a guy who you know can play that position and not cause us any problems?
And what is with this current rash of people thinking it’s at all a feasible idea to trade Nelson? (Okay… two. And I’m not checking, but you might be the other guy again.) Nelson is not leaving this team — he’s an All-Star, and the leader of the Magic. I don’t work for the team, and I can’t make any guarantees, but I’m making a guarantee here: there is zero chance we’re trading Nelson.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
Enough with the trade Nelson talk.
.. you sound like a troll.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I really don't like either move.
JJ’s contract is solid and Jameer is an all-star. I wish Orlando would have drafted one of the MANY PG’s that went in this draft. I really think PMills was the player to trade for. We should have swapped our 2nd next year. we need to find a long term solution at back-up PG.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Maybe we take one of Portland's four PGs off their hands in 12 months time
Maybe we take a more talented guard in next year’s draft. Maybe we find a bolter from the D-League (I know nothing about Pargo!). Who knows?
Right now, second backup PG is at best our third “need” behind a backup C and backup SF. I don’t think trading away a second round pick next season would have got us a long term lock at backup PG, maybe at best a project with potential, so I don’t see the point.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 6, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he has a chance .. hopefully he gets more PT in the next few days.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Going back to the fanpost,
Who wants to pay Vince Carter for only 2 seasons at 33-37mil to play with the Magic?
COMPARED TO
Who wants to pay Hedo Turkoglu, 30, (Bless him tho) for 5 seasons at 50-55mil to play with the Magic?
You forgot to mention V.C. is 32 will make 16.5mil at 34
And there is another 4mil. left at age 35 on 3yrd. year guaranteed.
The Surfdog
Doesnt change the fact its almost 15mil less than Hedo's new contract and 3 seasons less!
No thanks, but you watch the Raptors in 4,5 years and let me know how Turk is doing.
Getting splinters
He’ll be like 75% of Grant Hill’s production this year – 10/3/3 off the bench. For $13m…
by eltharion_doa on Jul 8, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't bet on it. He wishes he was makin 13mil. More like 10.5mil.
But i know you like V.C. for 16.5mil or 6mil. more at the age of 34. And all this talk about saving 15mil. is baloney. It is going to end up costing the franchise a lot more than 15mil. to replace Hedo and it will be questionable at best that the replacement will be a better fit.
The Surfdog
And by the way.
Everybody seems to forget that you lost Lee,Alston and Battie in the deal who have yet to be replaced and whan it’s all said and done How Much Will That Cost and will we be a better team for it?
The Surfdog
in reply to both, we wont know until VC is better replacement than Hedo, but aot ofppl fel pretty comfortable he is way better, and in a few months we will know, answer settled.
and again, we didnt have alston as depth, he was a starter and AJ wasa backup and there was no Nelson.
and again, Anderson will be better than Battie by end of season fro playoffs, if not now alrdy.
and again, MP stole Clee minutes for playoffs ultimately proving right in our faces he is the best option. we will miss his 10-20 playoff min.s :( No biggie, esp. if a Barnes is signed or something to mostly replace that. You woulda had a better argument saying what about C lee in 2-3 seasons tho..
Well better players aren't necessarily a better fit but agreed it is possible.
AT 16.5MIL A YEAR i hope it works. IMO. Hedo did work and 10mil. was not out of line now or in the future given he is 2yrs. younger than V.C. and should have some longevity since he has been injury free and pretty durable so i think he will last. Now i have been reading good things about Anderson from Coach Frank which leads me to believe he will be a good fit. Alston would have been great insurance if he would have accepted the backup role because if elson goes down it will be back to sq. 1. Lee was injured with a busted sinus cavity and had to work his way back in but he is far from done. Just getting started and would have been a major asset. Anyway the cost of replacing these players in money and ability will take its toll.
The Surfdog
Doubt it.
Don’t underestimate salary flexibility. Ever. That’s what separates franchises that are a flash in the pan and franchises that are consistent contenders.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Well if we can replace those players with better players that fit o.k.
But if not 2 steps back 1 step forward. To me the most consistent franchises keep there core together for years. The team that stays together plays well together. Example Jerry Sloan teams.
The Surfdog
How many championships do the Utah Jazz have?
None….but at least they kept the same core/coach together for a long time. That is not necessarily indicative of success. I don’t think that is the Magic’s plan either….they are in win-now mode. The Magic have been a loser franchise since Shaq left and they see an opportunity to change that. They gave up a great young player in Courtney Lee and are now stacking (declining) veteran talent like VC and Barnes, a-la Boston a couple years ago. The Magic have a great couple year window of opportunity here and they intend to everything they can to capitalize.
If the Magic are going to win it all, they need to do it while Howard is still a physical beast, because his talent is nowhere near as good as his stats currently are. As he loses his lift, he is not going to get better (as Shaq did). His game is predicated on power and athleticism and so far, he has not developed the skills that are going to be necessary to be dominant once he stops kissing the shot clock.
"I’m tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok." ~Shaq
by Max_in_Missouri on Jul 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The third year isn't guaranteed.
It’s a team option and I doubt Otis Smith picks it up.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I read that 4mil. of it was.in the 3rd.
IN any event when that contract is up in 2 or 3 who u gonna sign and for how much. Keep in mind salaries are going up not down. Players nowdays want job security and are not so ready to sign with a team that’s gonna dump them in a year or two unless there old. IN 4yrs. Hedo will be 34 same age as Vince in 2 and will be making 6mil. less a year. Watch the Magic in 2yrs. when he’s 34 and let me know if you got your 16.5mil. worth.
The Surfdog
The Magic will be able to replace Vince Carter.
I’m not worried about that ..
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
MJ won at 36
VC isn’t MJ but he’s still a heck of a lot better than most players in the league at 32
VC or Hedo...No question, however. The real question is....
Is will the next two years with VC be better than the next two with Hedo, Lee, Alston, and Battie. Would’ve loved to see what we could’ve gotten at next Feb.‘s trade deadline for the package of Alston & Battie without giving up Lee. With that being said there is no way we could’ve given Hedo a 5 year deal at any price. Unfortunately the NBA is the type of league where you muct cater to your franchise guy. With that in mind we must have the flexibility to not only resign him when the time comes, but also sign or resign who ever he wants at that time. Not signing Hedo to a 5 year deal, gives us that flexibility. If the next 2 years go well for VC, I am sure he wouldn’t mind signing for a lot less $ as a 34 yr old and a chance to keep playing for a hometown winner. THat will allow us to potentially go after CP3 and other FA’s the summer of 2012.
We wouldnt have alston or battie if we were making room for Turk. and the other would be let go possibly after 1 more season. So now you’re getting into Hedo, Lee for VC, RA and I love it. Not too mention Peaches has alrdy shown he’s the real SG in the playoffs. Dont hate on me, C.Lee is going to be awesome down the line but right now Peaches is better.
And yes, helping make sure you fit what your fanchise player needs around him to win is a great option and the Magic have that flexibility soon.
And yes, I do dream of CP3 joining the Magic with Dwight one day haha. I think that would possibly be the most dangerous duo, altho Vince Carter and Dwight Howard should net a ’ship or two :)
that's why it's a dream
CP3 is the best point guard in the league, Dwight is the best big man in the league
salaries and rules aside… New Orleans will not trade CP3 for Jameer and Rashard combined
with salaries to keep in mind… when Chris Paul becomes a potential agent… Orlando have SET 46 million dollars on the book, that means… until then… they have to trade Rashard Lewis for an expiring contract and choose not to extend vince carter’s contract… which once again means.. to obtain that dream of CP3 in Orlando the either A… have to be very lucky with grabbing an awesome draft pick to trade… when i mean awesome… as in Monta/Gilbert Arenas/Manu/TonyParker lucky way down the draft… which is highly highly highly highly unlikely especially since it is hard to develop players with such awesome starters already or 2…. literally destroy the entire roster… ie trade everyone out to build on two cornerstones…
which leaves CP3, Dwight Howard, whomever they receive frmo the Jameer trade and maybe Mickael Pietrus…
now my question is… is that worth it? if they want to do that… they have to do that NOW (and hope for the best that CP3 and Dwight do not get injured) with the way to play is very likely… very risky… but in my opinion they are the best players in the league (sorry dwyane, sorry lebron)
hence i doubt Orlando brass will risk it
Where Jameer Nelson loves the half court pick and rolls and picking his best spots for shots and passe, CP3 is quite similar in that but about 10 times more better lol
We all love Chris Paul
I think everyone in the NBA drools over the kid.
Realistically, he ain’t playing for us any time soon, or probably ever.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 8, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Just one of the 3 with D12 is enough.
A fun debate would be which of the 3 would be best. And right now, I say CP3.
As bizarre as it sounds, if he can stay healthy, I'd take Wade
Wade’s a gambler on defense, but he’s a smart gambler, and D12’s enough of a backstop to let him make those gambles. He’s a better overall defender than Paul, and is MUCH better at drawing fouls on the offensive end, which will give teams fewer fouls to throw at Dwight. I like Paul, but I think DWade would be more of a boost to the Magic.
Then again, while we’re dreaming, why not also ask for young John Stockton? :P
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
I'll take Paul, I'll take Wade, I don't care. Hah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The Magic wouldn't have the money ..
.. you can try that in NBA 2K9, but that’s about it.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
There’s that Orlando basketball savvy that the world appreciates so much, lol
"I’m tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok." ~Shaq
by Max_in_Missouri on Jul 28, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The author wrote
The author wrote: Orlando did best on slowing down Kobe Bryant
I hope you’re not talking about the finals? The guy averaged 32.4 points per game and 7.4 assists per game, not to mention 5.6 rebounds, 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks per game. That’s slowing down Kobe the best? I think that there has only been 2 other players in NBA finals history to average more than 30 points 5 assists and 5 rebounds —Michael Jordan and Jerry West.
Kobe's numbers were best in the Conference Finals. Not the Finals, actually.
.. when you take a look at his statistics across the board.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
You say VC is a better shooter than Hedo??
Hmmmmm dunno about that one buddy
"I’m tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok." ~Shaq
by Max_in_Missouri on Jul 28, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions
He is, and it's .. pretty obvious when looking at the statistics.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
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