Ron Artest to LAKERS?!?!?!
CBS Sports seems to think so . . .
It feels like the Magic are sitting still while other teams are making furious bids for the FAs out there!!! PLEASE tell me the Magic aren't resigned to fill the remaining roster spots with marginal players?!
I realize Otis is VERY MUCH a behind-the-scenes type of GM but it worries me that the Magic don't even seem to be mentioned as being in the running for the Major FAs that are left!
PLEASE OTIS at the very least bring us BASS!!!!!!!
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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118 comments
Comments
I feel your pain
I dont like standing still either but I trust Otis
"Blue and white...ignite...* BOOOOOM * !!!!! - Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic playoff jumbotron message)
by magic12ball on Jul 2, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully
Artest and Kobe did get along and it messes up the team Chemistry..
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2009 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah….locker room fights would be pretty cool =]
by Rebounder on Jul 2, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got Artest in that fight.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artest is a great addition for the Lakers.
.. he should bring some of the same things as Ariza.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 2, 2009 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that’s why you are so popular eddie. an unbiased perspective on everything. keep it going man. u should be blogging at silver screen and roll =)
by chaucer on Jul 2, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Artest
But Ariza was a better fit.
Ariza was a good cog in the Phil’s system that defended, ran the break, hustled, and could shoot the 3 consistently.
Artest can defend and hustle, but his 3pt shooting is erratic, doesn’t run the break, and requires more shots. He may be willing to change the last one for a championship run though.
by thermodynamic on Jul 6, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 pt shooting is erratic?
He shot close to 40% from three for the season even with all the "dribble dribble, fade-away 30 footer with the clock winding down " type shots he took.
by Worthy J. on Jul 6, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're correct.
Perhaps it would be more accurate if I said overall shooting. 40% from 3 is impressive, but many of those fadeaways came from midrange, and it shows. He also shot 40% overall.
by thermodynamic on Jul 6, 2009 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing IS for sure .. Artest is inefficient.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 6, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN is reporting it too...
Although ESPN say 3 yrs 18 million.
LA Times/CBS/Rotoworld are all saying 5 yr 32 million.
Sounds like no one has any ide whats going on and this could all be false.
Anyways, Ariza is going to Houston, so the Lakers and Rockets are just trading similar players, and CLE is not getting either. All in all, this works out pretty well for us.
by TragicMatt on Jul 2, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Where did you hear about Ariza to Hoston?
Cause that would be GREAT news to me!!!!
by blue-blood on Jul 2, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The signing isn't false, but no one has a clear handle on the specifics of the deal.
Regardless, Ron Artest is going to the Los Angeles Lakers. We know that much ..
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 2, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phil Jackson
Got his New Dennis rodman in Artest.. Phil has a keen ability have handling players who aren’t all there.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OTIS
DO SOMETHING!
"Blue and white...ignite...* BOOOOOM * !!!!! - Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic playoff jumbotron message)
by magic12ball on Jul 2, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah this is bad news bears
If Artest goes to LA, Ariza to Cleve and Wallace to Boston, then those three teams have all improved more than we have in the off-season. Not that Carter is a bad acquistition, but we have given the most up while these other teams are getting their big names by not giving up as much.
by Lee for three on Jul 2, 2009 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
More like, giving up nothing.
They’re all free agent acquisitions.
Ariza to Cleveland isn’t a guarantee. Expect Houston to make a play, as well as Toronto.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 2, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well technically
the Lakers gave up Ariza for Artest. Not directly, but if Ariza had taken the MLE then Artest doesn’t wind up in LA. I will feel a lot better knowing Ariza is headed for Houston instead of Cleveland.
by Lee for three on Jul 2, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In essence, yeah, but you know what I'm saying ..
.. I feel a lot better knowing Ariza is in Houston instead of Cleveland, too.
I figured he was going to land with the Rockets. Glad he did.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DITTO
Although I wasn’t 100% sold on what Ariza would do for the Cavs, he’d certainly would’ve made them somewhat better and I’m glad we won’t have to find out HOW much!
by blue-blood on Jul 5, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
orlando got more powerful as well, with carter.
by chaucer on Jul 2, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but there's still work to be done filling out the roster.
The starting lineup is solid .. the bench, well, that’s an unknown right now.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
so Ariza goes to HOU, BOS and CLE are still there. Im seriously wondering how Otis is going to bail us out on this one.
"Blue and white...ignite...* BOOOOOM * !!!!! - Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic playoff jumbotron message)
by magic12ball on Jul 2, 2009 8:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Magic starting lineup
Nelson
Carter
Pietrus
Lewis
Howard
Enough said. Dont freak out, Artest is a nice move but Magic are still the best.
by derekk on Jul 2, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay realistically
theres only 2 guys in that lineup that will rebound effectively, one of the guys isnt Lewis. There is no way in hell that you feel great about that line up. We have a long way to go to even be true title contenders again, I think we took 2 steps back since the Finals.
"Blue and white...ignite...* BOOOOOM * !!!!! - Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic playoff jumbotron message)
by magic12ball on Jul 2, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The lineup rebounds better than last year's team.
VC>Lee
Turk=Pietrus.
by TragicMatt on Jul 2, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol the defense and rebounding just improved slightly from last yrs starting lineup..
I cant believe ppl dont see that MP took most of C.Lee minutes in the playoffs. His starting was a formality to MP finishing the games. And now we lost Turk (bless him for his service to Magic) but got Vince Carter. Im thru explaining past this point. I’ll just wait till they mesh together by around the 25th game and look like the role of the title team of the season. I understand you’re opinions, but Im of strong belief likewise we’ll all forget about this, and I wont rub it in at all when Im right later on into the season, because I just want to see the Magic win their 1st title next season.
by derekk on Jul 2, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
u guys should go after odom. great rebounder.
by chaucer on Jul 2, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is too expensive for magic, they only can use a MLE, minor TEs, Sign and trades but its clear 7-9mil is a range Magic will not enter for just 1 player or else they’d just resign Turk I bet.
by derekk on Jul 2, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would be a nice fit, but too expensive of a price tag.
Otis is working with $5 million – $7 million, at the most.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"artest is a nice move but magic are still the best"
How can the magic “still” be the best if they lost just a few weeks ago to the Lakers in the NBA championship 4 to 1?
by plyka on Jul 2, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, i meant my opinion of the teams on paper now with the new additions. I tried my best to forget that, Lakers are reigning Champs until dethroned, but on paper, I love VC and the Magic most.
by derekk on Jul 3, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry but i had to say it since i’m a lakers guy.
by plyka on Jul 3, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, Magic will be a title contender next season ..
But to label the starting lineup the best in the league. It’s not a completely far-fetched opinion, but I can’t agree with it. There a number of teams that can lay claim to that “title” ..
.. even though it doesn’t mean much.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
give me Bass and Barnes..
We will be fine.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2009 8:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh
This should be an improvement in talent for the Lakers, but not a huge one. There’s no doubt that Artest, at this point, is an upgrade in talent over Ariza. However, Ariza is younger and more importantly, he has shown that he knows what his role is and thrives in it.
I don’t think the Lakers will have a problem managing Artest. Phil Jackson may be the best coach in the history of the league at managing “personalities” and Kobe is more than willing to fill the alpha dog role.
I’m sad that we weren’t able to resign Ariza but he had likely priced himself out of our range. Buss has always been willing to pay for stars but compensates by cheaping out on role players. Signing Artest for less than Ariza will likely go for was a no brainer for Buss.
by Worthy J. on Jul 2, 2009 9:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wont try to mask this. I thought it was a GREAT move.
I did say Artest would be a better relacement than Turk, one of the very few I think could better replace. Id say Lakers are favored even more now, but it’ll be fun to see the Magic rematch them in the Finals I suspect. And their weakest spot defensively remains PG for Nelson to blow up on, and Vince can somewhat match up with Kobe decently and make him work on both ends, as Dwight improves this summer (I hope) I can still see Magic winning the rematch. No shellshock of playing in Finals anymore for this team either.
by derekk on Jul 2, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah for all these acquisitions
don’t forget that a healthy Nelson will essentially be an acquistion for Orlando. What’s great about this deal for the Lakers is that it will give Kobe a chance to rest on defense and focus on offense. You can damn well bet Artest will be assigned to Lebron or Vince or Pierce in a potential Finals matchup. With Kobe being able to focus more energy on offense it will be scary.
I guess really the only downside for the Lakers in this trade is that they don’t get any younger. But I can understand how they want to focus on the short-term versus long term because by the time Ariza fully develops, Kobe will no longer be in his prime.
If us Orlando fans want to take something positive out of this…Cleveland, LA and Boston are so desperate to pull off these types of moves because they recognize they need to keep pace with Orlando.
Should be a very interesting year. No team outside of LA, San Antonio, Orlando, Boston or Cleveland has any chance at making the Finals next year, let alone a shot at winning it.
by Lee for three on Jul 2, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Magic have dodged some bullets with CV going Motown and Ariza to HOU. Not that it wouldnt have been over the top, but certainly woulda made CLE better.
And I dont see anymore FAs being as big as those two, maybe, maybe, maybe ’Sheed.
by derekk on Jul 2, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
prime years?
Kobe Bryant is 30 years old right now. He is in his prime. Pau Gasol is 28, Bynum is 21, Odom is 29, Artest is 29. The prime years for NBA players is 27-32. The lakers are a very young team, all in their prime. Expect us to compete for the championship for at least the next 4-5 years. Also, you guys like to point out that Nelson was not in ready shape. I’d like to point out that Bynum was a shell of his former self. Remember that he played his first game after coming back from injury right before the regular season ended. This guy was no where NEAR the level he was playing at before he was injured. Remember that this kid is 21 too. Once he gets his mobility back and continues to get better skill wise, this will more than make up for you guys getting nelson back.
by plyka on Jul 2, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nelson did not have any games before the Finals tho, but yes you’re right about Bynum too. Point taken. Thats why Nelson will be healthy and better next time, Dwight better, and getting VC in pretty much direct response to the Lakers, Cavs, Celtics, and other elites.
by derekk on Jul 2, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
either way
either way this NBA season is shaping up to be freakin awesome. Lakers vs Spurs in the West, with the Nuggest continuing to grow. And in the East, Shaq goes to Cleveland, VC to Orlando and Boston with a healthy KG. I’m a lakers fan, but i think that the east will be tougher —i have no idea who the best is going to be.
by plyka on Jul 2, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ill say Lakers are best in West but Spurs… becareful of them, they’re old but elite. Itll be a very fun season indeed :) I like my Magic for totally bias reasons lol. Tho its too hard to argue for any team w/o the season started.
by derekk on Jul 3, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lakers are the team to beat, in my opinion.
.. as long as Lamar Odom comes back, which I expect he will.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point I was making
is that getting Artest is right now what they hope Ariza will be in a few years. Would you rather have Artest now while Kobe is 30 or have a fully developed Ariza when Kobe is 33 or 34.
As far as Nelson vs. Bynum…it was a bigger deal for Orlando because Nelson shredded LA in the regular season and he is the type of point guard the Lakers struggle against. I’d take a 100% Nelson over a 100% Bynum any day of the week.
by Lee for three on Jul 3, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Ball Don't Lie totally trashed this.
by Kennedy K on Jul 2, 2009 9:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
KD really missed on this one
He’s usually better than most of the national media but he’s really letting his bias against Artest affect him. He’s forgotten that, unlike the Rockets, the Lakers have Phil and Kobe. Furthermore, Artest didn’t dribble out the clock and try to play point foward so much until it was clear that McGrady was done. Artest won’t be a big problem on the offense and he’s an upgrade on man to man coverage while providing the same stellar help defense as Ariza.
The fact that KD didn’t even mention how cheaply the Lakers got Artest (cheaper than they would’ve gotten Ariza) shows that his article is more of a knee jerk reaction.
by Worthy J. on Jul 2, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dwyer makes some valid points ..
.. but certainly adding Artest helps the Lakers. Statistically, he and Ariza were nearly identical in the regular season on offense, except Trevor was the more efficient of the two. However, Ron Ron definitely has the edge on defense. He’s an elite defender, and the statistics back up that claim.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statistically identical?
How so? Artest averaged 17.1 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.3 assists a game last year. Trevor was more efficient, as you said, except from the three point line and the free throw line. I’m not saying your wrong, I’m probably just not seeing it right now (I’m guessing your comparing per minute statistics?).
KD’s points are valid; however, he seems to think that the problems he stated are sure to occur. That was my problem with the article, along with the total disregard for the money side of the signing (come on 3 years/18 million doesn’t deserve a mention?).
On a different note, I think Artest does help the Lakers’ offense quite a bit. Not when the starters are in but when the bench is. A second quarter unit of Farmer (Brown)/ Artest (Sasha)/ Luke/ Odom/ Bynum is pretty nasty. Our bench mob finally get’s another creator who can get himself shots and give Kobe some more rest. Should be very interesting.
by Worthy J. on Jul 3, 2009 5:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not comparing per game statistics. I prefer per minute statistics.
.. because it’s a better way of assessing a player’s talent level. No one can dispute that (I mean, they can but it’d be fruitless), given there have been studies done to support that idea.
That’s what I mean by nearly identical. Ariza is able to produce efficiently without a high-usage rate. Artest is obviously going to average more points than his counterpart. Why? Look at his usage rate .. if Trevor had more playing time (24.4 MPG in regular season, 35.5 MPG in regular season for Ron) and had that usage rate, he would probably be able to equate Ron’s production a bit better (the per minute statistics do a nice job of showing that). I give Artest the edge defensively because, statistically, it’s not much of a contest. So, yeah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can stats take in to account WIDE open looks?
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 3, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that's what I figured.
The thing with per minute statistics though, is that players don’t always replicate their previous sucess when given more minutes. Furthermore, as Wmillion noted below, it doesn’t factor the types of shots Ariza was getting in a Lakers’ offense that was vastly superior to any offense Artest has ever played in.
That being said, you’re right, there’s definitely alot of concern with the fact that Artest has wanted/ needed the ball in his hands in the past. It’ll be up to the coaching staff to make sure that doesn’t happen again.
by Worthy J. on Jul 3, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say
if Phil can calm down D. Rodman, he can make it work with Artest.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 3, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rodman was selfless as a basketball player, though
Ron-Ron…isn’t.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 3, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be way off base here but I suspect . . .
Ariza’s going to go from budding star to above average player without LA’s bright lights or Kobe’s heavy-lifting around,
by blue-blood on Jul 5, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.
It remains to be seen .. whatever the case may be, the Artest v. Ariza debate is a classic matchup against usage vs. efficiency. As for Trevor’s ceiling, if he can develop a consistent jumper, the sky is the limit with him and I think that’s what Daryl Morey and the Houston Rockets are banking on – his continued development as a player.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 5, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger of ESPN:
“From here, however, it looks like the right move. Too many times teams stand pat after winning a title and watch things fall apart — Miami in the summer of 2006, for instance, or these very Lakers in the summer of 2002. L.A. realized it needed to rearm to keep up with Orlando and Cleveland, and today it upgraded one of the two positions where it didn’t already have a star.”
by derekk on Jul 2, 2009 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PG, SF, C
I count three positions where they didn’t already have a star. Unless you’re counting Gasol at Center and Odom at PF…but I’d still debate how much of a star Odom is.
by Lee for three on Jul 2, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gasol would be at C
Odom PF. That’s the crunch-time line-up and the line-up that get’s the most minutes. Odom is and All – Star level talent. Even when he’s not aggressive, he contributes positively (he almost always leads the team in +/- from what I remember) and when he is being aggressive, he’s one of the top 30 players in the league.
by Worthy J. on Jul 2, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
odom is probably one of the top 10 players in the league, or at least would be, if he were to bring it every night.
by chaucer on Jul 2, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Odom is definitely not a top 10 player ..
.. he has the tools, but again, issue is consistency.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow! After Odom completely came to play against you guys in the finals, you still don’t consider him a star? Obviously you only count offense and don’t even bother to tend with passing/defense/rebounding. Odom was one of the reasons why Dwight had a horrible finals, with his help defense. He was the reason that Rashard Lewis looked like a school boy for all but the second quarter of game 2. Odom is definitely a star. And at center we have Bynum. Obviously you haven’t seen the real Bynum. You guys just saw this 21 year old a few games after come back from knee injury. Wait until this 21 year old is fully healthy next year and then you’ll see if he is a star or not.
by plyka on Jul 2, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Odom's problem is consistency.
I think Lamar is more than capable of playing like an All-Star, but he doesn’t night in and night out. His adjusted plus/minus and net plus/minus numbers are excellent. His PER is nothing special ..
.. it’s tough to say.
I said many times that L.O. was the x-factor for the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals. It’s clear that when he goes, so goes the team .. and that was evident against the Orlando Magic.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Odom has star-talent
but I still don’t think he’s a star. For his career he averages 15 ppg, and his high for one season is 17.2. As far as the other facets of his game…Ariza is a better defender and energy guy than Odom. If you are counting Odom as a star you have to count Ariza as one. And Bynum is definitely not a star. He may be one someday, but he’s still got a ways to go.
I’m not trashing Odom or anything, but your definition of a “star” is way too broad for my liking.
For the record, the Magic players I would consider stars are Dwight Howard, Vince Carter and maybe Rashard Lewis. Not Jameer Nelson (yet) and not Hedo Turkoglu (good the past couple years but not a dominant player and not good enough for long enough).
by Lee for three on Jul 3, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Magic do have four legitimate All-Stars, though.
The numbers for each player back-up their worthiness to be considered as such.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is true
But a guy can be an all-star for a year or two. I think you need to bring it on a more consistent basis to be a “star” That’s why I don’t lump Nelson into that group. If he continues his progression and keeps this up for 3 more years then I think he can definitely be one.
by Lee for three on Jul 3, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't disagree.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
The magic do have 4 legitimate all stars.
1) Dwight
2) Lewis
3) Vincanity
4) Jameer
However i would take the lakers top 4 over the Magic top 4:
1) Kobe
2) Pau
3) Artest
4) Odom/Bynum
And the lakers still lead regarding the bench. Also the big question mark in my head is Jameer. Before his shooting accuracy increased incredibly last year, he was a NORMAL PG. Definitely not an all-star. Was his shooting really that good or was it a statistical abberation? Players can shoot the lights out for short periods of time and then revert back to the mean in the long run.
by plyka on Jul 6, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nelson will regress to the mean, but I doubt the drop-off will be drastic.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 6, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, counting Odom as a star would be a broad definition.
He’s a star in the “has All-Star talent” sense, not All-NBA sense. That being said, you’re vastly underestimating Odom’s defense. He’s one of the best, if not the best, help defenders on our team. He might not make as many huge game changing plays on that end as Ariza but he knows our system to the tee and his length and versatility is a large part of what allows us to use the strong-side trap as often as we do. His +/- bears this out – he does things for us that doesn’t show up on the box score.
Just think of him as a supremely more talented Luke Walton. There were alot of Laker fans bemoaning Walton’s general uselessness but the stats showed that when Luke was on the floor, the Lakers operated better. That’s because players like Luke and Odom are very good at things like making the first pass in an offensive sequence or shifting their position on defense to block a lane on defense. More importantly, they’re unselfish and willing to make the smart play, not the flashy one. Players like that are crucial to the triangle’s sucess.
by Worthy J. on Jul 3, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have no reason not to trust Otis
We know something you don't know
And if we don't share then we don't grow
Unabomber set the whole world on fire
by Orlando Rays on Jul 2, 2009 10:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh... I drove 9 hours today and just found out all this.
Hopefully it’ll be Ron circa ‘04 and he’ll destroy the whole organization.
"It's difficult to win when you're outscored in every quarter." -Bill Walton
by betterthanburke on Jul 2, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Doubt that'll happen.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love this board
because it’s so busy. I’m a big lakers fans and i first came here to check out the reaction to vincanity being signed by the magic. But now that we got Ron Artest, I just have to come back and post…i just feel so warm and nice inside, lol.
Firstly, I must say that i am SORRY to see Ariza go. Just remember how you guys felt about C Lee and you’ll realize how lakers fans felt about Ariza. Remember that this guy was sitting at the crap end of your bench getting ZERO playing time. He came to the lakers, matured into one of the finest role players in the league. He has been invited to the USA international basketball team by Colangelo. Just to give you insight into how great of a player he is. To see him go is very disapointing. I rate him as your worst trade since letting go Billups/Wallace.
However, Ron Artest is without a doubt a major UPGRADE. Remember that this guy, at his size, won the DEFENSIVE player of the year trophy. He is a hard worker and always comes to play. Signing for the MLE is an obvious statement by this guy that he is taking LESS money than he is truly worth. At age 29, he is still in his prime. A physical beast. When paired with the zen master and kobe/fisher, they will keep him in line.
He shot 40% from three range, and can great his own shot, even drive to the basket. Remember that Ariza was so good at hitting threes because they were all wide open. Artest has not had that luxury. Giving Artest wide open threes and his 3pt shooting % should actually INCREASE. Also, this gives us the toughness that we did lack last year. And who is going to play D on Lebron/Carmel/Paul Pierce and to a far lesser extent, your VC? Artest is one of the only guys in the league who is MORE powerful than Lebron. He is one guy who can D up Lebron and Carmelo.
Note: again, i am in no way putting VC in the same category as Lebron/Melo, not even close to Pierce. That’s why i said to a much lesser extent.
by plyka on Jul 2, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ariza
Was actually “so great” because he kept the ball moving, either inside or kicking back out to Kobe. He was a pretty average 3 baller during the regular season, he just got hot in the playoffs.
Artest has never, in his entire career, even with McGrady fit, kept the ball moving. Maybe Phil Jackson pulls this one off, maybe he doesn’t. It’s a gamble on a big talent who’s never ever looked likely to fit into the kind of system the Lakers run.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 3, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So... what 's the next move for US?
We solved the guard situation, but…
It seems to me the Magic NOW need that PF more than ever!
Who do we go after with a vengance?
ANYBODY…?
by manny55 on Jul 2, 2009 11:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60291/20090702/bass_camp_open_to_sign_and_trade_with_orlando/
Magic are going bargain bin hunting. But I think they are relatively set and will be OK. Plus they can go the SF route and bolster that SG/SF spots big time, theres more quality players now in those spots, and I like it more than a PF.
by derekk on Jul 3, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think u guys are in dire need of a true pf. lewis isn’t a great pf, if anything a good sf. he doesn’t rebound or defend very well. howard needs someone who can help him bang inside and grab some boards.
by chaucer on Jul 3, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Lewis is more than adequate defensively. Part of it has to do with having such fantastic help defense from Dwight, but he can hold his own. The Lakers were one of the very few teams who were able to take advantage of him offensively without having the favor returned at the other end of the court.
I think it would be silly to dilute the overall talent level of the starting lineup just because one team, on the other conference no less, matches up well against you. Now, if Orlando can get a quality PF for cheap, that’s a difference. A McDyess or Wallace would upgrade the team and would obviously be nice.
by Worthy J. on Jul 3, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*that's different
I wish SB Nation had an edit button :(
by Worthy J. on Jul 3, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
The suggestion that the Magic need a true power forward is asinine. Yes, Orlando needs a big man, but the team doesn’t need to change its roster dynamic. Rashard Lewis can play the power forward position, fine. The team just needs to pick up a 4 that can offer a different look, when the matchup presents itself. A guy like Antonio McDyess would be a perfect fit.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read my evaluation on Rashard Lewis, then come back to me and say he doesn't defend very well.
I doubt the perception will ever subside that Lewis is a bad defender, but HE’S NOT.
In fact, Rashard is an above-average defender ..
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if i were the magic, i’d go for odom even if it means paying the tax. winning isnt’ cheap.
by chaucer on Jul 3, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a laker fan, i can only hope we keep him.
by chaucer on Jul 3, 2009 12:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seriously
we need odom back desperately! With Odom and Artest (childhood buddies), plus a healthy Bynum, and of course Kobe/Pau…well, need i say more. This is like an all star team. I say we field that starting 5 for the west in next year’s all star game against the best the east has to offer, lol.
by plyka on Jul 3, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, like I said above, the Lakers will be the team to beat next season.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus nails it with his analysis.
http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=273
The issue for the Lakers won’t be defense, but offense with Ron Artest. He’s a high-usage, inefficient player, the antithesis of Trevor Ariza. That may be an issue for Los Angeles, because the triangle is predicated on ball movement. The ball doesn’t exactly move when Ron Ron is holding onto it and putting up shots.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One issue
I have with this is that the shot that Artest will get most of the time is an open three with his feet set. The triangle and playing with Kobe means that this shot is available all game long; if it isn’t, it means the opposition is giving up alot of ground in the paint which is even better for the Lakers. Virtually every three pointer I can remember Ariza taking last season was wide open. Artest shoots the three ball at a higher efficiency than Ariza on more attempts even counting the wild, fading-away shots from 30 feet that he takes. I’d say that when he shoots with his feet set, Artest is one of the best 3-point shooters in the league and a clear upgrade from Ariza.
Of course, Artest could decide to take it upon himself to be the man and try and create shots that aren’t there. Can anyone see Kobe and Phil letting that last longer than a game if he did try something like that?
by Worthy J. on Jul 3, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'll be interesting to see what happens to team dynamics . . .
If Ron Ron gets sticky fingers and doesn’t pass the ball enough.
by blue-blood on Jul 5, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, should be interesting.
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 5, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe the ball will be in his hands as often
He was effectively the second banana in the Houston offense after Yao left and because Houston had literally no one besides Yao that could create their own shot, Artest was forced into hero mode, which is enough to nuke any offense. He’s the third to fifth wheel in the Lakers’ offense depending on who is on the floor, and if what he’s mostly doing is taking corner threes with his feet set — which he’s fantastic at — then I’d expect his efficiency to increase significantly. Naturally, the question is whether the Lakers can get him to play within their system, but I’d trust Phil more than anyone in the league to deal with a headcase like Artest.
by Ben R on Jul 3, 2009 5:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
If Artest is able to accept his role, I don’t see why he won’t be a more efficient player as a result.
I don’t buy the counter-argument that Ron was inefficient because he was having to pick up the slack with Yao Ming out of the playoffs in the second round. I don’t buy that at all because Artest was an inefficient player the entire season, WITH Yao Ming beside him. Yes, Ron being a third-to-fifth option should help his efficiency, like I already said, but we’ll see. Artest has always been an inefficient player on offense.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but...
…last year was a bit of a worst-case scenario. (Well, no, 2005-06 with Sacramento was a worst-case scenario. But that was obviously a weird situation.) Artest has played for more than one dysfunctional team in his career… he came up on those awful post-Jordan Bulls squads, where I swear there was a season they shot less than 40% as a team.
And then the Rockets… I’m sorry, but Adelman is either the best coach in the world or the worst, because there is literally no way to make sense of that team. You’ve got McGrady flirting with sub-40% shooting, and insisting on playing the point half the time for undefined reasons, you had Alston (who I’m pretty sure is MARRIED to sub-40% shooting, so McGrady should keep his hands off), you have Artest, and then Ming’s accurate, he’d better be with that size, but then he’s injured half the time… even Battier shoots 41% these days…
The point is, it’s a crazy free-for-all of chucking. (You would think Chuck Hayes would be more involved with that, but he barely shoots at all. And then you have guys like Landry and Scola, who are actually super-efficient, so good work to them.) Nobody was keeping Artest’s tendencies in check on that team.
If I’m optimistic about Artest, I’m looking at his not-great-but-decent numbers with Sacramento (after that first season), and I’m looking at his three-point shooting. It’s improved steadily throughout his career, to the point where last year it was virtually identical to his total FG%. I feel like with discipline and his improved three-point shot, plus the Lakers’ efficient offensive setups, Artest could easily shoot 45%. And if they can wring 45% out of him, I’d have to call that a win for the Lakers.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
by 3.3seconds on Jul 6, 2009 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Artest having another inefficient season shooting-wise.
I already said that Ron is capable of shooting more efficiently, given that he’s with the Lakers, but nothing convinces me that will happen. Nothing. Crazy Pills has been inefficient his entire career.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 6, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know — he was a 44-45% shooter in Sacramento. (Again, disregarding that first season.) And Sacramento wasn’t exactly the most functional team either. I feel like you can throw his first six or so seasons out entirely as predictors, because they happened when he didn’t have a reliable three-point shot. I feel like whatever his ceiling is as a shooter, he’s likely to reach it in LA… and given that he has shot 45% for a season before, his ceiling kind of has to be there.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
by 3.3seconds on Jul 6, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You need to look at the eFG% and TS% ... they're below-average for his career.
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 6, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Artest will pass, move off the ball and take open shots
This might work.
If he plays like Ron Artest, this could take the Lakers back offensively.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 3, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
That’s the conundrum.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ariza is going to the Rockets
It’s a de facto trade.
There’s no way Ron-Ron survives the LA spotlight. The Rockets got the better of this.
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by Orlando Rays on Jul 3, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't he?
He’s a guy who craves the spotlight. He was born in NY, which is far tougher on their stars than LA. Artest already spent a large part of his offseasons in LA. Joe Torre likes it just fine here, Ron won’t have a problem as well.
It’s his on court issues that I’m more worried about.
by Worthy J. on Jul 3, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the spotlight won't be an issue for Artest.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 3, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be interested to see what happens to Ariza's numbers now that he'll be required to be one of the main men
instead of being a spark -type role player.
by blue-blood on Jul 5, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, for one thing...
He’d better cut off any illusions he has of being a three-point shooter. He was really inefficient last year — 31.9% — and that was on the team with arguably the best inside offense in the NBA, playing opponents who frequently weren’t thinking of him as an outside threat, if they were even thinking of him as a scorer at all. Everyone knows he has the three now, and there’s not nearly as much going on inside for the Rockets as there was for the Lakers. (Even if Yao makes some kind of miraculous recovery.) We could see a sub-30% percentage… the bad old days of post-Shaq Penny Hardaway all over again.
(And next to McGrady, who in 2007-08 was one of the few other players to shoot under 30% from three and keep getting the green light… well, if McGrady can stay healthy. That is one injured team.)
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
by 3.3seconds on Jul 6, 2009 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ariza can still improve from three.
.. there’s nothing that says he can’t.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 6, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.
I just tend to believe that players suddenly gaining a three-point shot is more the exception than the rule. I see Ariza’s 31% three-point shooting from last season, not as a major improvement, but as his old 25% three-point shooting + being really open at all times. Can he prove me wrong? Sure. I would imagine he’s focusing pretty heavily on improving his three-point shot this summer. But I’m skeptical.
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
by 3.3seconds on Jul 6, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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