The Number's Game

by Souwantmyname on Jul 17, 2009 4:58 PM EDT

Now that the Orlando Magic have recently become a luxury tax paying team it is time for them to make some tough decisions. Currently the Magic have 10 players on the roster whose contracts add up to around 78 million dollars. This means the magic are 8 million dollars over the luxury tax threshold which in turn would cost the Magic 16 million dollars next year.

Winning does come at a price but is said price too high? The obvious concern is if the Orlando Magic can afford to pay the tax (something that they have NEVER done in franchise history). The NBA finals playoff run no doubt helped the Magic's bankroll but the tax adds a new dimension to economic pressure. The Magic will have to generate enough revenue to not only pay the players, coaches, organization and the 16 million dollar tax but we also have to pay for a brand new stadium.The pressure to win will be immense for all involved in the organization.

However, pressure is not a bad thing. It drives people to perform better than even they thought possible. So maybe this is what it will take to push the Magic into the upper echelon on great NBA franchises.

I also keep thinking that 16 million is such a daunting figure for a "small" market team and franchise to manage. That is when I started thinking of ways for the Magic to minimize the "sticker shock." I looked at the magic's roster to see who I feel would be the most expendable. I came up with JJ Redick and Anthony Johnson. Combined they are making around 5 million dollars. Taking the tax into account that means the Magic are paying 10 million for those 2 players. Needless to say I don't think they are that valuable to the Magic.

From what I see the Magic have 2 options.

#1 Trade these players to a team with cap space and receive no salary in return. We would probably have to switch or give 2nd round picks to them as well

#2 Trade these players to a team for a number of players with inexpensive contracts. So as to fulfill the league required 13 man roster. This is where it gets tricky. My research shows only a couple teams have the pieces necessary for this to work out.

Toronto Raptors- Pops Mensah Bonsu, Quincy Douby and Roko Leni Ukic = 3 million (Magic save 2 million)

Golden State Warriors- Marco Belinelli, Anthony Morrow and Acie Law = 4 million (save 1 million)

Miami Heat- Chris Quinn, Jamario Moon, Joel Anthony, Yakhouba Diawara = 4 million (save 1 million)

Their are other teams out there where it may be possible but these are the best bets IMO. Of course the Magic won't be getting equivalent talent if a trade were to take space. They would more than likely get young talent (which is good since we didn't have a draft this year) and NBA veteran re-treads.

If Otis can save the Magic 10 million dollars next year than I think its worth ;) a look

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

Tweet Comment 71 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

J.J. and A.J. figure to be in the rotation this year, and trading them for low-end players would be a lateral move at best

And a moderate step back at worst.

Although Anthony Morrow would be a fantastic addition to this team.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."

by Evan Dunlap on Jul 17, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions

I would love it if we could work out a trade with GS but that would seem unlikely

My ideal scenario is to trade them both to a team with alot of cap so as to just them completely off the books and then go after 1 genuine NBA player that can play PG and some SG. Then fill out the roster with minimum players

by Souwantmyname on Jul 17, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions

Agree

by pianolady on Jul 17, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions

What?

The Surfdog

by Surfdog on Jul 19, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions

I THINK SHE SAID AGREE......

i do not however….agree

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 19, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Stop doubling contracts to reflect the luxury tax

Can we just stop doubling people’s contracts when talking about the impact of the luxury tax? JJ & AJ do not cost us an extra $5mil. It is not just these two contracts that put us into the tax. The tax is the result of the cumulative total of the team’s contracts.

By your logic, you’d have to double everybody’s contract and decide if they were worth it. I.e. Dwight would cost $30M, Shard $36M, etc. And your payroll total then would not be $78M, but $156M. And, at that point we can see the logic of this type of calculation break down.

Each player does not cost the team two times their contract. Rather, each player costs the percentage of their contract out of the total payroll times the teams tax total.

So for the present 10 players, JJ costs his $2.8M salary divided by the $78M team salary multiplied by the $8M luxury tax penalty and then add his $2.8M salary back into that figure to get the total amount the Magic pay for JJ.

So that’s 3.5% x $8M = a little under $300K in penalty + $2.8M of his original salary, which equals $3.09M.

To review:
JJ total cost to the Magic for 2009-10 is: $3.09M
JJ costs the Magic under $300K in luxury tax.

Now, isn’t that a little different than saying JJ costs the Magic two times his salary?

by magicfaninTN on Jul 17, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs

THANK YOU TN

you took the words right out of my mouth…..and the numbers out of my head……its good to know that someone has mathematical competency to intelligently calculate the “cost per player” percentage…… nice

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Excellent post.

Welcome to 3QC, btw!

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks

by magicfaninTN on Jul 18, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

No problem.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

That has been bugging me for ages

But I couldn’t be bothered doing the math. Great post.

by eltharion_doa on Jul 21, 2009 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions

The point is these 2 players are expendable and if they were to be traded it would save the Magic 10 million dollars

yes or no

by Souwantmyname on Jul 17, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions

no...

Saving money is not worth losing both players in your #1 scenario, IMO.

The trades in #2 could be debated about how much they’d help the team (if at all), but most seem pretty unlikely for the other team to pull the trigger on. Again, IMO.

And I wasn’t arguing with cost saving as a good idea. And, please accept my apology for using your post to finally reach my limit on people doubling salaries of players already on the roster to talk about the luxury tax. :)

by magicfaninTN on Jul 17, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions

No you were completely right about the players salaries

I just was trying to point out that the magic could reduce the luxury tax by 10 million if they were to be traded.

Were good and I’m sorry if I sounded hostile back there. I appreciate your mathematical breakdown too. Numbers like that hurt my head. Do you do taxes???? :)

by Souwantmyname on Jul 17, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions

no disrespect in my previous post......

i understand your point…..

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Trading Johnson and Redick wouldn't solve the problem.

The team would still be in the tax.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes they would be but they would only be 2 or 3 million in the tax not 8+

by Souwantmyname on Jul 18, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Who gives a damn if they're in the tax?

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."

by Evan Dunlap on Jul 18, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Exactly.

It’s not our money. I didn’t know we had to be fiscally responsible as observers.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions

not me..

Just win…

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jul 18, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

It's all good.....

:-)

Heh. I only do my own taxes and I need software to help with that. I’m no accountant.

by magicfaninTN on Jul 18, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Not necessarily...

Because, their contracts don’t equal up to how much we are over the cap. Plus, we would have to replace them with somebody. As well, both of their contracts are expiring, but we would more than likely be replacing them with longer term contracts, which means we’ll be paying the tax on those for several years. Also, they both are vets who know the system. It would cost us more to replace them at all levels. they are some of the reason we are considered a “Stacked” team right now.

by pianolady on Jul 17, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions

I don't think O-tiz is worried about da money

'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12

by Eyriq the Red on Jul 17, 2009 8:11 PM EDT reply actions

If he were, Brandon Bass and Marcin Gortat would be elsewhere.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."

by Evan Dunlap on Jul 17, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

thank you………at this point the rich devos is ALL IN………..

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions

all in !

by derekk on Jul 18, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions

He may not be but I certainly am

I’m just throwing out solutions that I think are reasonable

by Souwantmyname on Jul 17, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions

why..........

are you concerned with “da money” that you are referring to…..really……i mean i want to know….. you may have a legitimate reason………

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions

No one needs to be concerned about money right now.

It’s blatantly obvious that the Magic are willing to invest to win. Stop worrying about finances.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I just don't think we are going to be using JJ or AJ at all this year

I feel like were gonna end up playing Lewis at the 3 and have Pietrus as the 6th man. He’s going to get huge minutes at the 2 and 3.. Signing Watson also makes AJ and JJ obsolete since he is an athletic scoring PG

by Souwantmyname on Jul 18, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

A.J. and J.J. are the primary backups at their position

And there’s a greater chance of J.J. starting at the 2 than there is of Lewis starting at the 3. This is from a trusted team source.

They’re not expendable.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."

by Evan Dunlap on Jul 18, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions

If it was from Otis then I don't believe a word

by Souwantmyname on Jul 18, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Not Otis, no

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."

by Evan Dunlap on Jul 18, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions

We also need to take into account neither one will be on the Magic next year

I would like to turn them into young players this year

by Souwantmyname on Jul 18, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Why don't you think they'll stick around?

A.J. might move on or even retire, but the Magic could try to keep J.J. based on what he does this year.

I, frankly, don’t understand your obsession with unloading the only 2 backups the Magic have at the guard positions, especially if the motivation is saving money.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."

by Evan Dunlap on Jul 18, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Right now they are the only 2 backups we have

If we get Watson and actually play Lewis at the 3, Pietrus will be the primary backup to VC.

Watson/Pietrus > JJ/Dad

by Souwantmyname on Jul 18, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Johnson and Redick would still play, though.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

i have always wished redick could transition to a backup point........

he has a decent handle, has become more of a facilitator and can shoot well…. he has become a better defender…..i know hes not quick enough for most of the points in the league…but maybe some backups……

just a thought….

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Not a bad idea.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions

i'd rather see jj learn to play backup center than backup PG

backup PGs can’t be scared to dribble the basketball. jj at PG would be a disaster with a capital TO. of any player in the league under 6’8", i think he is one of the least comfortable handling the rock. apologies, i’m jj bashing again! i’d resolved to try to stop, but these jj posts are like waving a red cape in front of a bull.

by pinthatd12 on Jul 18, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions

JJ and Adam Morrison should just share a flight to Europe

by Souwantmyname on Jul 18, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions

hear hear

by pinthatd12 on Jul 18, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions

hes better than you think..........watch.........

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions

am i detecting a little scarcasm?

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions

You don't know that.

.. unless he tries and works on it.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 19, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Otis read my post LOL

I said we needed to target 1 PG/SG and deal Redick and Johnson…. CJ Watson is exactly what we needed for us to deal away JJ and Dad

by Souwantmyname on Jul 17, 2009 8:57 PM EDT reply actions

Even if Watson comes aboard, it's hard to envision the Magic trading anyone

I doubt Otis is actively shopping A.J. or J.J. They’re solid rotation players, and cost-cutting is not a concern right now.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."

by Evan Dunlap on Jul 17, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions

A.J. and J.J. are staying with us.

And we need them.
BOTH of them.

by Dzogi on Jul 18, 2009 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Agree.

The Surfdog

by Surfdog on Jul 19, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions

What?

The Surfdog

just havin’ fun dude….

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 19, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Good for u.

The Surfdog

by Surfdog on Jul 19, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL

by pianolady on Jul 20, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Cost cutting

For teams spending this much $$$ all that matters is championships. If the magic do not win one in the next year or two, i’m willing to be that the management will be quite fed up with the huge payroll and start making financial cuts. When teams spend this much moola they need to be rewarded with championships.

I’m just lucky that the lakers won this year. Otherwise Odom would be gone fo sho, we probably wouldn’t have Artest and Ariza would most likely be gone. Since we won, i fully expect Buss to give Odom his 9-10m and bring him back for another run at a ring —that’ll be Kobe’s 5th baby.

by plyka on Jul 18, 2009 6:03 AM EDT reply actions

kobe bryant has won his last championship...........

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 18, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm not sure.

I think Kobe has a chance to win one more with the Lakers, given the current roster assembled.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 18, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Fo sho

by Dzogi on Jul 18, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

haha

Well he has won 4 already, good enough for all but the elite of the elite. Nevertheless, I fully expect Kobe to have 5-6 rings by the time he is finished. With this team around him, the entire core is right at their prime. A basketball player’s prime is 27-32, although the very elite players tend to have that pushed out a little further. For instance everyone agrees that Jordan’s prime was in his late 20’s and early to mid 30’s. He won his last championship at 37 I believe. Phil Jackson said it best —-in regards to elite players like Jordan/Pippen/Kobe, he said that these players tend to get better the older they get as long as they hold on to 90% of their athleticism. That’s because they learn the complications of basketball and how to make the players around them play far better than they actually are.

Kobe is 30. Gasol is 28. Odom is 29. Artest is 29. Bynum is 21. This core group of players has 3-4 more runs, at least. They can easily pull out 2 more. I think if we get Odom back, with the addition of Artest (the best perimeter defensive player in the entire NBA, see analysis here:http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/07/09/breaking-down-37/), we must be considered as the favorites going into next year.

But then again, we fans of Kobe know people like you hwyatt3 —we have even give you a name: Kobe hater. There are Kobe haters everywhere. They lie in bushes and grassy knoles in wait, to pounce and claim how bad Kobe is, that he will never win again, etc. He has proven Kobe haters wrong again and again, and this time won’t be any different.

by plyka on Jul 18, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think anyone will deny that, if Odom returns, the Lakers aren't the favorites.

.. because they will be, and I already said that many, many times here.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 19, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh btw the Magic fans hate Kobe not because of his ability or 4 his questionable liasons

but because he throws elbows on our players and doesn’t get called for it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUo-uy4sYuQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT2VPTSJk50&feature=fvw

by Souwantmyname on Jul 19, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Not a hater! But.....

I do agree that Kobe, LBJ and a couple more of the NBA poster children do get away with a lot. One reason that it is so hard to stop them and they are able to put up such great numbers is because defenders cann’t get up on them and put any kind of defensive pressure without getting a foul/ touch foul!! D-12 gets clobbered almost every time he catches the ball, I will say that D-12 is getting to the line more and more but there is a lot fouls against him that are not getting called because he is large and in charge compaired to most. Fouls need to be the same for every player and called at both ends of the court.
Great example shown on souwantmyname previous post!! ABOVE this one!!

by bumper64 on Jul 19, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Kobe haters...

Man that’s original

That’s the best you can come up with??? You should call them the KoBeaters, way more original

by Souwantmyname on Jul 19, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Enough.

Just drop the subject, please.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 19, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions

game 4 of the finbals

that’s all I got to say to people who claim that the refs help out kobe or the lakers. in the last quarter and overtime the magic shot like 18 free throws and the lakers shot none. in fact the magic didn’t even get a foul called against them until a minute left to go in the game. that is just ridiculous. the nba wanted the magic to win that game. no doubt. not because they love the magic but just because they love money.

by plyka on Jul 19, 2009 8:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

The Finals are over and done with. Move on.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jul 19, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions

i do agree with that assessment.....they gave us plenty of opportunities................

……just for the record…..i don’t like kobe because he is a rapist……statatutory or otherwise…… plus he’s just kind of a egotistical jerk…… i do have to say though that he has put more effort into his off court character the last few years….and he has proven to be a good team mate…… i still don’t like him though

Just one man's opinion...

....."running mac games as if your name was Scott Skiles"....

by hwyatt3 on Jul 19, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions