Otis Smith Addresses Media Regarding Brandon Bass
by erivera7 on Jul 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT
in News
167 comments
With the news breaking earlier this afternoon that the Orlando Magic have come to an agreement with free agent Brandon Bass, I was able to ask general manager Otis Smith a number of questions and gather his thoughts on what the prospective signing means for the team, how it affects Ryan Anderson and Rashard Lewis, and more.
Is Rashard Lewis playing the 3 something Stan [Van Gundy] wants to see more of during the season?
It's his natural position. We just play him at the 4 and use it as an advantage and we will still do that so it's not like the guy is going away because he's not. He's still an effective force. We just get the ability to play both players when we have to.
Is Brandon someone you've liked for a few years, since he's entered the league?
He's someone I've liked for a couple of years. During the free agent scouting, he's a name that's constantly on our board, a guy that you look to add to your team to give you a little bit more punch.
Do you think he's a nice offensive fit? He's able to play the mid-range game with effectiveness.
Well, he fits around what we have in that he's a physical presence, he can rebound the ball, he can defend the bigger 4's, which is a plus. For us, at times, we struggled a little bit but I think he'll be able to do that.
How do you think this signing is going to affect Ryan Anderson, given that he's played well in the Summer League? Do you think this is going to affect the minutes he sees during the season?
Well, I think it's up to those guys. Those guys have to sort out their own minutes. I mean, what you do is get a core group of guys. I mean, they have to decide who plays and who don't and that's basically what they do here in practices. I don't think it will affect his playing time.
What do you think of Ryan Anderson's performance in the Summer League?
Ryan has been a good piece. A lot of people thought that he was a throw-in to [Vince] Carter, which is not true. When you're giving up a young piece in what we had in Courtney Lee, getting back a young piece in Ryan Anderson, who on our draft board, we had 1 and 2 and they kind of went 1 and 2 that way so getting him back is a plus for us.
Is Bass' youth something you find invaluable, given that you have a young core with Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, and others?
Oh, I think it helps when you're adding him to all of our other guys. We're still a relatively young team, despite A.J. [Johnson] when he's down a little bit or he's up a little bit and maybe Vince when he's up a little bit, so I think with those guys, I think we're still a relatively young team.
I know you stated that you wanted to find another point guard, a third guard to add to the team. Do you think there's anybody on the Summer League roster that could be that guy, like Russell Robinson or Levance Fields?
There's a couple of guys that have been playing that have looked well, both on our team and other teams that have looked good. The third point guard is out there, we'll look to add that to our roster in the near future.
In speaking with a source familiar with the team's plans, don't expect Brandon Bass to start for the Orlando Magic. It's evident, as I was told, that Orlando wants to continue to play Rashard Lewis at power forward, given that he's been able to play that position more than effectively the past two seasons. That should be noted.
As Otis Smith stated in his discussion with the media, Bass has played center with the Dallas Mavericks so that might be something he may continue to do with the Magic. If that happens, that would theoretically allow Lewis to play more in the post, given that Bass has the ability to play around the perimeter on offense.
Once the signing becomes official, Orlando will hold a media availability session or a press conference of some sort. Whenever that happens, 3QC will be there to cover the proceedings and speak with Brandon Bass about joining the Magic, etc.
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He's not going to start???
Now I really don’t like it… a 6’8 backup center.
In the words of Charlie Brown UUUUUUGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I put this in the other post
He has a higher PER as a Center than as a PF.
CHILL people
by fwedo on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL .. he's going to play. Relax.
.. just because he’s not starting doesn’t mean he isn’t going to see significant playing time.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noooooooo!!! Augh! We’re now the worst team in the history of the NBA because we added a great backup C/PF
heheh =)
by Rebounder on Jul 10, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be curious to see if SVG starts Bass against certain lineup's
And Pietrus in others. That’s the kind of flexibility that is valuable to have. It’s not like Pietrus or Bass can’t play or start.
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by pookeyguru on Jul 12, 2009 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 12, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather see Bass as the back-up center than start at the PF spot.
He can still get mins at the 4, but I’d much rather have a shooter like Lewis or Anderson at that spot.
by Lee for three on Jul 10, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
calm down.......
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"It's his natural position"
That seems to say a lot in terms of whether or not Bass starts. We will see, but with Anderson looking so good a three power forward rotation makes less sense than moving Lewis to the 3 and starting Bass with Anderson backing him up.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jul 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good pickup for the team
And he should start and switch Shard to the 3. Thats a solid frontcourt right there. Heck I’d put VC in the SG position with Jameer
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Still miss em: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvgVn0gg1E
by Wasabi Steak on Jul 10, 2009 8:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I could see Bass and Dwight as the best 4-5 duo of the league if they mesh good.
by derekk on Jul 10, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, that's a bit optimistic.
I think they can play off each other but best 4-5 duo in the league? Eh.
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"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easily
Of course Howard would do most of the heavy lifting. Bass’s playoff PER and other peripheral measures seem to scream that he is going to be a stud.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jul 11, 2009 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
by ramon060688 on Jul 10, 2009 8:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinkin Otis has a trick up his sleave if they do
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Jul 10, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
barnes
Isn’t Barnes a target of Dallas? Smokescreen? Then backdoor them and sign Barnes.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 10, 2009 10:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes isn't a target of Dallas.
.. at least, from what I’ve heard and read.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be a pretty shady move if they did because dallas just helped them get that trade exception. You'd think dallas would have done something to prevent that when they made the trade.
by ramon060688 on Jul 10, 2009 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes resign Gortat and trade him for better value!!!
Very smart move Otis
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NBA is a business.
.. that’s all I need to say about that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey E and Ben
anything happen recently that we picked up all these new guys?
It is welcome, of course, is this just an off-season thing that happens a lot? I don’t understand…
by fwedo on Jul 10, 2009 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Getting Bass early? Not so unusual. They had Pietrus early last year and Lewis the year before that.
by Ben Q Rock on Jul 10, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohhhh no, my bad Ben, haha
I meant new guys on the blog. People, posters, etc.
haha
by fwedo on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys have gone awhile without new blood haven't you
well I was mainly on the evil empire’s site ESPN until my friend told me about this site.. Pretty good site I have to say alot less belligerent hatred
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha evil empire ESPN! They made my comment featured with the story at the bottom too lmao!
by derekk on Jul 10, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, we've had a nice community since I've jumped on to help Ben run the site.
3QC’s growth has been slow but steady. I guess to answer your question, fwedo, .. I don’t know the answer, hah. You’d have to ask the new posters why they came to the site and what not.
The “belligerent” hatred is frowned upon here. This isn’t ESPN or just .. a random message board where people talk a bunch of nonsense. We have an articulate and knowledgeable community that is here to talk about basketball in a mature manner. That’s something that Ben and I have been trying to build and I think we’ve done a pretty good job of that. So, yeah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I would have rather had Matt Barnes and Zaza split the MLE.
But I understand the value of having someone like Bass.
A young, tough banging PF who can also shoot the elbow jumper. Only 23 and comes cheap.
But I think it’s underestimated how much tough Ryan can be.
I’ll trust SVG to come with a good team solution.
by thermodynamic on Jul 10, 2009 10:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
zaza is already signed.........
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dang. 16 million over 4 years.
That’s not a bad deal actually. Perhaps a bit much for a 10 minute backup center, and would not have allowed enough money leftover for Barnes. Oh well, who’s left?
by thermodynamic on Jul 11, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure, to be honest.
But I suggest reading my buddy Kevin Pelton’s thoughts about the centers in free agency.
http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=718
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not much to like there
Rasho seems to want to go to TO. Theo is probably too old to be effective. We could try our luck with young guys like Ryan Hollins or Aaron Gray. Or maybe Johan Petro. Right, E?
by bandrewg08 on Jul 11, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's tough. The market for big men is slim.
To be honest, I don’t like any of the guys you listed but I don’t know.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha I just added that last part
…cause I’ve noticed every time someone mentions Petro, you immediately reply with “Petro sucks”
But yeah, the backup C position is not looking good if we have to pick from this bunch. Here’s to hoping Bass can prove us wrong.
by bandrewg08 on Jul 11, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Link
Loved the breakdowns but Wafer is not undersized he’s 6’5 but I am obviously coveting him
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's technically undersized for his position.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's really that complicated
but then again I think Bass is a better player than most here do, so it makes more sense to me.
I don’t know that Otis Smith and SVG are even sure whether Lewis will start at the 3 or 4 next year, first of all. Lets assume he starts at the 4. I think Bass comes off the bench primarily as a PF. Lewis gets some minutes at SF. Which should give Bass a chance at a larger role, and also give Anderson an opportunity to get in the rotation. I don’t see why anyone needs to get left out, and I don’t personally think the plan is to play Bass at the 5 a whole lot.
Even if Barnes is signed, he can get minutes at the 2 and 3 in this offense and Redick won’t match up with every team anyways, leaving him completely out of the rotation at times.
I think it should work out great, and worst case scenario we have too much depth and some healthy competition
by magicss4242 on Jul 10, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It'll work out.
As for Otis and Stan, I’m pretty sure they know what they want to do with the starting lineup. The person I spoke to is very attached to the team’s situation, so I think everyone should expect Bass to come off the bench when the season starts. Things may change, obviously, once everything gets going but .. yeah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you are right
I was assuming SVG would ultimately like Lewis playing primarily SF, but where I think some doubt creeps in is if we have another legit starting PF. If Bass meshes well and fits well with the starting unit, I think they plan on playing Lewis at SF a lot with a little time at PF in some lineups throughout the game.
I don’t know though, maybe I’m wrong
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Bass is good enough to make us abandon the foundation our game is built on.
Then again, I don’t think Bass is good in general. So that could affect my opinion. :)
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
by 3.3seconds on Jul 11, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if you are right, I agree with you
I just think you are overplaying some of his stats in Dallas. But you make a solid argument and I don’t know Bass well enough to say you will be wrong.
I dont think I would say we would be abandoning our foundation by moving Lewis to the 3. I thought that if Tony Battie was a little younger we couldve executed our offense with him starting at the 4, and Bass’ range is similar to Battie’s. I think it’s preferable to have 3 pt shooters but not necessary to get the type of spacing SVG is looking for.
If Bass isn’t a very effective rebounder and defender, then Lewis should and will remain the starting 4.
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we have too many guys already that can play the 3 and not the 2
We need another guard
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Barnes to the rescue...
Cleveland is supposed to be making a run at Barnes, but I don’t think it makes much sense for him to go there. With Lebron (who almost never rests), Anthony Parker, Delonte West, and Daniel Gibson (who’s making about $4 million a year) I don’t see where there are any significant minutes for another combo G/F in their rotation.
I trust Otis will get Barnes into a Magic jersey. At 6-7 he can play the 2 behind Vince when JJ doesn’t matchup and/or when Shard is getting lots of minutes at SF, and can spell Pietrus at the SF if we’re playing Shard at the PF.
Seems like a WIN-WIN to me.
by ggrant on Jul 10, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Barnes quick enough for 2? I like him tho. Where did you hear CLE chasing Barnes?
Why is every top team chasing the same darn FA’s like its a ladder system getting lower and lower. Atleast GM Smith didnt participate like that and I think it helped ORL and shows the Magic FO really thought about who are good AND would fit good. When you’re only chasing 3-4 specific FAs instead of 10, thats what I feel.
by derekk on Jul 10, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my concern too
Barnes isn’t quick enough to defend the faster SG’s in the league. Neither is Carter/Pietrus or Redick for that matter!!!
I just got really concerned…..
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'There aren't many blazing "fast" SGs...
Eddie House, and Ben Gordon are really the only players that come to mind for me.
by ggrant on Jul 10, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well here are the guys that come to my mind
Kevin Martin, Jason Terry, Nate Robinson, Delonte West and last but perhaps the worst matchup for our guys Leandro Barbosa.
We all know that Nelson isn’t the best defensive PG in the league and to compound that all these guys play along with other PG’s. We need another SG with quickness to at least stay in front of these guys.
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'm thinking more about playoff matchups
Kevin Martin won’t be playing in the Finals. Neither will Barbosa.
Courtney Lee didn’t do that great a job against Delonte. Delonte scored almost everytime when he posted up, and truthfully missed A LOT of open shots.
Nate Robinson lit us up regardless (32 pts, 27 pts,19 pts, 5 pts) so we never had an answer for him.
by ggrant on Jul 10, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
man...your wheels spin pretty fast....huh, there tiger??
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of my best friends is a hardcore Cavs fan...
He’s from Cleveland.
I don’t visit the sites he does to get his information because I don’t want the “looserness” of the City of Cleveland to rub off on Orlando. LOL.
by ggrant on Jul 10, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
minutes breakdown prediction... current roster
DHo — 36 mins (36 at C)
Vince — 36 mins (36 at SG)
Rashard — 36 mins (24 at SF, 12 at PF)
Jameer — 34 mins (34 at PG)
Bass — 28 mins (12 at C, 16 at PF)
Pietrus — 24 mins (24 at SF)
Anderson — 20 mins (20 at PF)
AJ — 14 mins (14 at PF)
JJ — 12 mins (12 at SG)
Said differently:
C — Howard (36), Bass (12)
PF — Bass (16), Anderson (20), Lewis (12)
SF — Lewis (24), Pietrus (24)
SG — Vinsanity (36), JJ (12)
PG — Jameer (34), AJ (14)
If we sign a backup center, Bass loses some burn. If we sign a Barnes-like 2/3, Anderson and JJ lose some burn. Howard, Bass, Lewis, Vince and Jameer start, and Howard, Lewis, Pietrus, Vince and Jameer close.
by pinthatd12 on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh..............ok
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that looks good
except maybe a little less for Pietrus, Anderson and Redick, and throw Barnes in there
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
target
I know he was a target before they signed Anthony Parker. I doubt he still is.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 11, 2009 12:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not
I’m hoping the mood is that nobody wants to play there because nobody wants to commit 3-4 years when LeBron is probably going to bounce outta there.
by ggrant on Jul 11, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes
Can defend the quicker two guards. He is a good athlete, who plays solid perimeter defense.
If we can get Ratliff too, we will be in good shape.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Jul 11, 2009 12:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Ratliff would be a terrible pickup.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You keep saying that
But I don’t see how.
He’s the best blocker of any free agent C not named Chris Anderson and shoots better than guys like Dice or Nesterovic. OK, he’s an injury risk, he’s got absolutely no upside and his rebounding at this point is mediocre, but what’s the alternative?
For ten minutes a night, you’re not going to get anything better for one season.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The alternative? Richard Hendrix.
I rather the Magic sign a guy who can actually bring something to the table, as opposed to Ratliff how’s completely done, defensively. I mean, like .. freakin’ Dad dunked on him.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y'all musta forgot (in Roy Jones Jr. Voice)
Pops got hops!!!
by ggrant on Jul 11, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG I forgot how nasty that dunk really was!!
Ratliff really went after the ball too none of that ola’ stuff… I really don’t want ratliff now LOL
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Barnes was a capable defender at the 2 also
although I havent watched him extensively. He would be do fine against most SGs I think, or about as well as he does against most SF
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many guys that can play the 3 and not the 2?
Carter and Pietrus can both play the 2 and the 3. Redick is a strictly a 2. I don’t know where you’re getting that idea. All the Magic need is another wing player and the rotation is set that those positions.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My problem as discussed below is I think we'll have a problem guarding faster 2 guards
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pietrus can guard those guys. He's athletic enough.
.. that’s never been an issue with the team.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree
We tried to put Pietrus on Eddie House the 1st game vs. the celtics and he killed us. It wasn’t till we put Lee on him till we shut him out. Pietrus is fast for his size but doesn’t have the quickness
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know what?
if eddie house beats us, we don’t deserve to be in the finals. besides, if eddie’s at the 2, i want to see him try to cover vince on the other end.
by pinthatd12 on Jul 11, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is the quicker 2 guards are a problem for Pietrus
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hear you
that’s why above i have pietrus getting all his mins at the 3. the quick 2 will also give vince problems, but he’ll give them even more problems on the other end. i agree with you that wafer would be a great addition.
by pinthatd12 on Jul 11, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A valid point, but Eddie House is one guy.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bass at 6'7" 6'8"
I already know what the response to this post is going to be: height is over-rated. Nevertheless, do you actually think a 6’7" to 6’8" guy is going to be able to play the 5? I just can’t see him guarding either Bynum or Gasol at 6’8". I think that when you look at how expensive the “big men” went in this year’s free agency (think Anderson Verajow or however you spell the name, or Villineuava, or even Gortat), it says a lot that you guys got Bass for so cheap. This guy is 23 and to him, i bet, the most important thing is money. 4 years at 18 million tells me that other teams did not offer this guy much money and there is usually a reason for that.
Basically at 6’8" i cannot see him being able to guard either the 4 or the 5 of the elite teams. In the West we have San Antonio and the Lakers —can Bass cover Duncan or Antonio Mckdyess and keep them off the boards and rebound himself? Can he stop them for scoring over him? I don’t think so. On the Lakers you have Bynum/Gasol/Odom. I’m sorry but Bass will be eaten alive. You guys would be much better simply not playing Bass against the lakers. In the east you have Cle/Bos/Orl as the elite teams. In Cleveland you have Shaq and Z. Can Bass cover either of them? There is simply no way. In Boston you have Sheed/KG/Perkins. Again, i see no way that BAss can cover any of these people and definitely not out rebound them. And on the offense of side, can he score against them get offensive rebounds? I just don’t see it.
You guys would be better off not playing Bass against the elite teams and just going with Rashard at the 4 for most of the game.
by plyka on Jul 10, 2009 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Since when did the Magic need to worry about Bynum
I guarantee Bass could own that scrub. Gasol could shoot over him yes but we’d have Dwight on him if I got out of hand. Are you forgetting the Magic were the best defensive team in the league last year. You may not be used to it as a Laker fan but we have a thing called “team defense.”
Just keep outscoring the crappier teams in the league just get ready to lose to San Antonio in the WCF
by Souwantmyname on Jul 10, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, no need to pander.
Lakers won the Title, they deserve respect.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually heard different
I read that he was offered more money a couple of other places, but chose to come to Orlando due to the role that was discussed.
Strength plays a big role down there in the block. Gasol owned Shard simply because Rashard isn’t strong/athletic enough to guard him on the post.
Bass is stronger than Z. As strong as Sheed/KG/Perkins/Gasol. Nobody is Stronger than Shaq, but Shaq is old and slow too.
by ggrant on Jul 11, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you very much
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
other teams didn't have the money......in two years a lot of the "great" veteran PF's will be golfing
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Magic were able to sign Bass to a reasonable contract because the free agent market is tight.
It’s extremely tight, actually. David Lee is having a hard time out there. Is that an indictment on him as a player? No, that’s ridiculous. It just shows that teams are hesitant to commit a lot of money in this market.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millsap got paid though
So maybe teams think Lee is a product of the system???
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily, because his stats were good before D'Antoni.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bass isn't going to play 5 for much against the bigger sides, if at all
He’ll bang with Gasol at PF, maybe, but if we let Gasol set position in the post against anyone apart from Dwight, we’re in trouble. We have to defend him off the ball, and Bass has the strength to do that far more than Rashard.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, irrational people are the WORST
You wrote:
“Just keep outscoring the crappier teams in the league just get ready to lose to San Antonio in the WCF”
Did you forget that the lakers won the championship just a few short weeks ago against YOUR team in 5 GAMES on their home floor? How is that possible if all we do is outscore the crappier teams in the league? You’re not making any sense man.
by plyka on Jul 10, 2009 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not gonna get into a flame war with you
it’s just ridiculous you come onto another teams site to gloat and taunt. I guess we just need to be grateful a Lakers fan decided to grace us with his wisdom
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, please, please keep it chill.
The discussion has been good and disagreement is fine, but try not to single out anyone like that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ggrant,
Firstly, it is according to his agent that he turned down more money. I would believe Satan himself before agents of athletes, lol. Even if true it would have only been very very very marginal.
Regarding his play, you may be right. I’ve just never seen it. I’ve never seen a guy shorter than 6’8" guard elite big men in the league. If you really think that he can guard Gasol/KG/Sheed/Perkins/Bynum/Shaq/Z —-all who are around 7 feet or taller, with very long arms, some with incredible skill like Gasol/KG and to a lesser extent Sheed/Z and others with power like Shaq/Perkins/Bynum…i just cannot see it.
by plyka on Jul 11, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
two words.....big ben
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he's an undersized center but was a Defensive Player of the Year.
Jason Maxiell is a great name that’s brought up because he’s undersized, too, but can more than hold his own against big men. I’m sure there’s plenty of guys out there that can be listed.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but...
…Bass is not any of those guys. At least not yet.
by bandrewg08 on Jul 11, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was just in reply
To the fact that he said he’s never seen a 6’8" guy guard an elite big man.
Just proof that it’s been done before.
I wasn’t comparing Bass to either of those guys at all.
by ggrant on Jul 11, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he's not. But the point is that he can play the position.
If he couldn’t, I don’t think the team would have signed him.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bass can play defense against any 4 in the league
with Howard behind him
There’s no 4/5 combo scary enough offensively that Bass/Howard cant hold down the paint. Thats what it comes down to.
I agree that Bass is going to have a much better impact playing with Howard. I don’t see him ever being Howard’s primary backup unless we’re in a crunch
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why i was thinking
Bass has to play with Howard… I do not like him as a center
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He
has
a
high-
er
PER
as
a
C
than
a
PF
!!!!!!
by fwedo on Jul 11, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a backup
what does that matter? He has a 7’2 wing span and built like a brick house.
You are a new kid on my watch list. _ (i’m messing with you)
by fwedo on Jul 11, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that it accounts for minutes played and pace
but aren’t there a lot of factors that can’t be accounted for? Like how players may perform differently depending on the size of their role. Who the players teammates are. What system they play in. etc? Or am I wrong?
And how do they tell the difference between what stats they accumulate at different positions? They have a way of charting when they were in the game at different positions I assume. So then wouldn’t there be other factors that you cant account for in that formula like how let’s say when Bass played the 5 in Dallas the rotation he played with may have been different, and maybe the style of play even changed, then when he was in the rotation at the 4. Maybe the defensive plays change.
Or am I just completely not getting it?
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's more of a statistical accumulator than anything
So it doesn’t account for roles, strength of teammates/opposition or systems.
You can get it broken down by position, though.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well it seems like a great tool
but I’m not sure that I will take anything too concrete from it, like that Bass is a better center than PF. I think his rebounding numbers can improve a lot playing here too
Again maybe Im wrong and you guys have stats that prove this, but that’s what I think until I get to see him everyday
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PER's useful, but it's not the be all and end all
It’s way too down on players who are great defenders but don’t get steals and blocks – you can chase your guy around all day, give him no easy shots and be in his face constantly but until you get a steal or a block, you get nothing.
I’m not a big fan of Bass as much more than an emergency/small ball center, to be honest. Height isn’t everything but giving up 4-6" is a lot to continually make up, even for someone with a long arms.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never said he is definitively better
the point was to show you that the kid can hold his own in that position. Especially when his PER is higher in the position © that he played the most minutes during the season.
by fwedo on Jul 11, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PER is a good metric.
As eltharion_doa said, it’s not the end all, be all statistic. I think what’s key with advanced statistics is to look at a conglomerate of numbers. For instance, I always use adjusted plus/minus, net plus/minus, statistical plus/minus, WARP .. just, a bevy of numbers. The more, the better, because it levels out the deficiencies.
I only like to use PER to a.) compare players of the same position and b.) compare a player season to season. That’s the only uses that I see from that metric because it does have its flaws.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine I'll make sure to put pants on then
I agree there really aren’t to many backup center’s that Bass need worry about..
The problem I see coming are the big PF’s he’ll be playing against like KG, Sheed, Gasol, Dirk, Barnyarny lol… I dont think he can guard those guys so DH might have to. Leaving him to guard the big centers on those teams
It’s going to be a problem
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Better to have Bass take the PF and keep him out of the post, whilst leaving Dwight free to play help – either on the PF on the move, or against a pass out.
Dwight’s at his best defensively when he can whiff on his player to help out against the guy with the ball – you don’t want to tie him up with their best post player if you can help it. Obviously against teams with a dominant center you will, but otherwise, Dwight’s better against less threatening players.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would make the most sense
I see no reason why Bass can’t hold his own in the post at the 4 against anyone with Howard behind him. I think switching Bass off to the center would create more problems
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kg, sheed and wallace
are primarily perimeter players on offense. the key to covering them well is decent quickness. bass should match up with them just fine, athletically. just need stan to get him playing committed, smart, fundamental D.
by pinthatd12 on Jul 11, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense and Rebounding
Is all about positioning. Strength/Athleticism usually nets good positioning.
Bass has Strength and Athleticism.
by ggrant on Jul 11, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a Video
Of Bass playing Defense
by ggrant on Jul 11, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU
in this he blocks people taller than him.
ALSO as evidenced in the video and proven throughout watching more of him, what he does well as a big man reminds of of Okafor. Yes, Okafor is taller, but he is not as athletic as Bass. My point is that Bass and Okafor both jump at the perfect time to at least contest the shot.
Height means a fair amount, but if you have the basketball tools or skills to back up your play, what does it matter?
Look at Shaun Bradley folks. Then look at his contemporary Charles Barkley. Okay then.
by fwedo on Jul 11, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You pretty much nail it with your last sentence.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was really inspired by "Okay then."
Hah! =D
by Jwoey on Jul 11, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ggrant
but that’s why they play the games as they say, lol…
by plyka on Jul 11, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
fwedo
fwedo,
My apologies if i was rude. It’s never my intention.
by plyka on Jul 11, 2009 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bass D
i think bass will do a serviceable job against any of those guys (at least as well as anyone else on the market). quickness, strength and positioning are all as important as height on D. this is why maxiell (at 6’7" 260) has always done a pretty decent job on dwight, while Z (at 7’2") gets smoked by him.
by pinthatd12 on Jul 11, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good comparison.
Strength and wingspan can make up for height. Your analogy, honestly, is a great one.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eddie
sweet, that’s the first time you’ve ever agreed with me :)
by pinthatd12 on Jul 11, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jerry stackhouse was realeased today........anyone? bueler?
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I suspect he'd go back to the Mavericks.
.. but I’m not familiar with the situation, so I don’t know.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's headed back to Dallas
From Eddie Sefko, the Mavs’ beat writer for the Dallas Morning News, on Wednesday:
While the Mavericks tried Tuesday to iron out details of a trade for Shawn Marion that still looks shaky at best, Jerry Stackhouse faced the reality that if this isn’t the deal that sends him into free agency, it isn’t far away.
He’s come to grips with the idea that his time with the Mavericks is done. He had four solid seasons and one that was forgettable after last season was wrecked by a foot injury that kept him off the court.
by Ben Q Rock on Jul 11, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there you go.
Thanks, Ben.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Ben Q
what have you been hearing about Marcin Gortat … are the rumblings of him possibly being resigned true
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marcin himself thinks Otis will match, but in Dallas, Sefko (of the DMNews, see above) thinks Otis will not match
All I can say is that the Mavericks seem pretty darn confident about this thing. I’m not saying there is a deal here. But I think the fact that Donnie Nelson has known Otis Smith since the Golden State days may help the situation here.
They know they are going to have to do business down the road.
Bottom line: Gortat is going to be a Maverick. That’s the betting favorite right now.
Link.
by Ben Q Rock on Jul 11, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed re gortat
i’d bet 10 to 1 we don’t match. we can’t pay a pure 5/backup center $35mm. it just doesn’t make sense.
by pinthatd12 on Jul 11, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want Gortat on the team till the trade deadline
If we use him and the trade exception we could possibly get and Allstar in return. Just in time for the playoffs
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aw man
i really want to pull a fast one on Dallas and sign Gortat as well
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After reading this..
and some of the comments and I don’t understand how some of those people think that they “helped” us trade Turk. They needed Marion more than we needed that trade exception. LOL
by ggrant on Jul 11, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's the opinion out there on Brian Skinner?
Didn’t exercise his option with the Clips, he’s an unrestricted FA.
by thermodynamic on Jul 11, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If there hasn't been smoke, there hasn't been fire.
Meaning, the team isn’t looking at him.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see, thanks.
I feel going young with Hendrix is good too.
by thermodynamic on Jul 11, 2009 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also................Chris Mihm, Darius Miles and Mike Wilks,
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks", hwyatt3 said with confidence prior to the draft
Projection: White and Turner - each will have at least 3 to 5 TD's this year...watch!
by hwyatt3 on Jul 11, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mihm should get a look see imo
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
towel waivers
all these guys we’re talking about (other than barnes) stink. the key is to get guys with good attitudes who won’t complain about playing time, who won’t take dwight out to strip clubs, and who will waive their towels vigorously on the end of the bench when vince dunks and dwight throws isht into the second row. i.e. no d.miles, no marbury, no ricky davis, etc.
by pinthatd12 on Jul 11, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yeah none of those guys are gonna make the team....
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As they shouldn't.
The Magic are better off giving roster spots to young guys like Robinson and Hendrix.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As do I.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we sign Barnes
this will be the 2nd offseason in a row that Otis makes me happy
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 1:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer a better shooter, to be honest
Barnes is an inefficient player offensively.
Of course, there aren’t many efficient, sweet shooting SF’s left. Walter Szczerbiak’s about the only really good shooter left, and he’s absolutely useless at everything else. Jamario Moon can shoot too, but the Heat would match any offer for what’s left of our MLE that we could put to him.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be fine with Barnes but my 1st choice is Wafer
He has the edge in age, speed, potential and scoring. Barnes has defense and toughness. We need those 2 attributes but not as much as we need quickness and scoring
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i heard from a frined of mine whos a Portland fan
that Wafer is a real a-hole. He did something like stare down their owner after making a shot or trash talk him or something. He helped me in 3s during my fantasy season, but I dont like the things my friend was telling me about him
by magicss4242 on Jul 11, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also have read somewhere that attitude is a concern about Wafer
but I’d still sign him and dump him if it got to bad
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Otis Smith wouldn't sign Von Wafer.
.. he’s big about character.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Von Wafer's out of our price range
And they’re actually pretty similar, scoring wise. Wafer’s a significantly better three point shooter, though.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much do you think he's gonna be worth?!?!
He cant be more than 2 million a year and if that’s out of our price range then our free agency is over.
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
The MLE is $5.8m, give or take, and we just gave $4.1m, at least, to Bass (according to rumour which places the deal at “starting just above $4m”).
So we’ve perhaps, best case scenario, got $1.8m left – which might get Wafer, but I think someone will fall in love with his three ball and scoring and give him $2.5-3m.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know if we put a qualifying offer on Jeremy Richardson?
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure we didn't
He expect to be resigned by us by the end of summer, though.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My sources tell me he has a 1.03 million qualifying offer
I don’t think he’s worth that so if we don’t resign him that gives us around 2.8 million to work with. I’d be tight but who are we kidding were gonna pay some luxury tax this year
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha I just wanted to sound professional like Ben and erivera
just for a second
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had the offer, yes
But the Magic declined to accept it, so he’s an unrestricted FA.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 11, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok I just saw some highlights of Bass on youtube
And yes he looked great. Man he can certainly jump which quiets my fears on him being able to play other PF. He also looks very fast for his size in these videos which will let us have 2 big guys beating their guys on the break
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 1:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's athletic, a hard worker, hustles.
I’ve always liked him and I think everyone here will, too. Eventually.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jul 11, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgive my previous negativity
I’m still bumm’ed we lost Courtney Lee
by Souwantmyname on Jul 11, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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