Can Dwight Howard and Marcin Gortat Coexist on Offense?
Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy's player rotations have come under scrutiny lately as he scrambles to find a suitable lineup to counter the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals. Kevin Arnovitz touched on the subject yesterday when writing about the Magic's flexibility at several positions possibly hindering them in the Finals, as he has yet to settle on a consistent rotation. Los Angeles presents unique problems for Orlando since, in Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, and Lamar Odom, it boasts three long, true big men who can neutralize Dwight Howard defensively and neutralize just about everyone on the glass. After getting hammered on the boards, 55-41, in Game 1 of the Finals, Van Gundy made the unusual decision to pair Howard and reserve center Marcin Gortat at the same time in Game 2, for 9:41 total. Howard remained the center, as he has for every minute he's ever played since 2005, while Gortat shifted to power forward.
The reason this development matters is because Howard and Gortat are inarguably the Magic's most effective bigs, with no disrespect intended toward Tony Battie or Adonal Foyle. However, due to conventional wisdom, Howard and Gortat rarely play together. To wit, conventional wisdom would seem to indicate that playing Howard and Gortat together would stifle the offense, as neither player has much shooting range, thus clogging the lane for would-be slashers and penetrators. It would also indicate that the improved defense and rebounding that lineup provides would not be sufficient enough to mitigate the challenges it would present to the offense.
For the record, Gortat did not seemed concerned about possibly sharing the floor with Howard when I talked to him about the subject after the Magic's win over the Cleveland Cavaliers in Game 6. To begin with, he didn't know if Van Gundy would even pair him with Howard because, "we still haven't had our first meeting about L.A.," he said. However, he did believe such a pairing would be a possibility "just in case in the future if we have a problem." When I asked him what difficulties sharing the floor with Howard presented, he said, "you gotta understand his jokes," before adding, "nothing's hard. You just gotta follow his game, understand his game, his mentality [....] he can take all the shots in the game, I'm gonna work on defense." In short, Gortat did not anticipate ever playing as a power forward alongside Howard in the Finals, nor did he anticipate that doing so would cause problems for the team or for him individually.
But back to framing this investigation. I decided to test that conventional wisdom, with the help of Popcorn-Machine and ESPN.com's play-by-play data. I went through the two games Howard and Gortat played together in the regular season, as well as the first two games of the Finals--they indeed shared the court in Game 1, but only for 8:53 of garbage time--to see if the conventional wisdom bore out. Can Howard and Gortat play meaningful minutes together and help the team? Follow the jump to read my conclusions.
Before going anywhere with this, I want to make clear that I did not evaluate the players' individual statistics while on the floor together. To me, it was more important to note how the team performed as a whole with the two bigs in the game. So no, I don't have individual breakdowns for either player here. Team performance is my focus.
With that issue clarified, let us address the offense. Here are the shooting statistics for Magic lineups featuring Howard and Gortat:
| FG | FGA | FG% | 3FG | 3FGA | 3FG% | FT | FTA | FT% | eFG% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 24 | 56 | 42.9% | 9 | 16 | 56.3% | 22 | 34 | 64.7% | 50.9% |
Indeed, the offense does not perform as well. Even a gigantic boost in three-point shooting can't mitigate the two-point shooting falling off a darn cliff, with the Magic connecting on a mere 15-of-40 of their two-point attempts in 41:29 of Howard/Gortat "Tall Ball" this season. Without looking at replay of the games, it's hard to confirm empirically, but the statistics appear to bear out the theory that the Magic can't get a clean two-point look with both players in the game, most likely due to the lane being clogged. Now, with Battie in Gortat's place, that dynamic changes, since Battie has a reliable 15-to-18-foot jump shot from either baseline or the top of the key. Gortat's jumper is... a work in progress... as evidenced by his garish airball from the right baseline in Game 2 of the Finals.
As expected, though, the rebounding with Howard and Gortat together improves tremendously. Here are those stats, again accounting for 4 games:
| ORebs | Chances | OReb% | Rebs | Chances | Reb% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 23 | 44 | 52.3% | 58 | 101 | 57.4% |
Orlando grabs better than half of its own misses with the big lineup in the game, the importance of which is magnified by their overall poor shooting with the same lineup. Overall rebounding also improves, but there is some bad news, as the Magic struggled on the defensive boards with this unit during the regular season:
| DRebs | Chances | DReb% |
|---|---|---|
| 35 | 57 | 61.4% |
I must admit this finding surprised me, since Howard and Gortat are both elite defensive rebounders individually: Howard ranked third in that category during the regular season, corralling 29.5% of opponents' missed shots himself, while Gortat ranked 14th with a figure of 26.3%. Something just doesn't connect on the defensive glass when the two players share the floor, a fact which manifested itself during the last regular-season game in which the Magic used the lineup, March 9th at Detroit. Even with Howard and Gortat on the floor, Orlando could not keep Detroit off its own glass in crunch time, yielding 4 offensive rebounds for 4 points. Not a killer statistic, no, but an offensive board from Antonio McDyess led to a game-tying three-ball from Tayshaun Prince which appeared to swing momentum in Detroit's favor.
Then again, that's just one game. And Orlando will not face the Pistons until next season. How did the Magic's big lineup fare against the Lakers specifically in these Finals?
| ORebs | Chances | OReb% | Rebs | Chances | Reb% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 11 | 22 | 50.0% | 26 | 44 | 59.0% |
| DRebs | Chances | DReb% |
|---|---|---|
| 15 | 22 | 68.1% |
As you can see, pretty flippin' well. 18:34 is a small sample size with which to work, and I haven't accounted for the Lakers' lineup during these stints on the floor. But it appears that Van Gundy can solve his rebounding woes if he plays Howard and Gortat at the same time. And if Orlando's guards ever wake up and hit shots, the pairing could be truly formidable offensively.
For anyone concerned about the defense, it appears not to be an issue. The Magic are +19 in the 41:29 the two bigs have shared the floor together, or +0.46 points per minute. No one's suggesting the crew play all 48 minutes--which would result, on paper, in a 22-point victory margin--but a few 3-to-5-minute stands here and there could certainly swing a game in Orando's favor. Whether or not it can swing 4 of the next 5 games that way remains to be seen. But if the data in the post illustrate anything, it's that the defense and rebounding a Howard/Gortat pairing provides indeed compensates for the poor offense that results.
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to answer the Q: yes,better then I thought. Well done.
But all the rebounding and the bigs won’t help us unless our guards start hitting shots.
I think that is the real Q: who should play on PG for magic tonight,and who should serve as a backup? My vote normally would be Nelson/Dad,but it gets complicated,cause Rafer tends to play excellent in O-rena (usual).
So?
I wonder if SVG did the Nelson expriment in LA
because it’s road game and doesn’t hurt as bad if we lose them? Now that we are home, SVG will go back to Rafer/AJ?
Or maybe Nelson needs the two games to get back into playing shape? It did take him (or the whole Magic team) two games to get going back in November, after a long offseason layoff.
It’s really hard to say. Two wildcards: Rafer’s confidence and Nelson’s shape. If they are both good, then play both, if one of them good, play that one and back up with AJ. Unfortunately, these things you can’t tell unless you play them, so I say stick with the Rafer/Nelson, and put AJ in if we still got issues, and hope it’s not too late.
SVG is sticking with the same rotation, tonight.
.. might see Anthony Johnson if things don’t change.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Hopefully not. I prefer him on the bench.
not to take anything from old Dad,it’s just that if we don’t need him,Raf/’Meer are doing fine.
dzogi
It is really that simple. It can work if the shooters hit open shots. We need the additional rebouding. We just need more out of guards.. A lot more.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Looks like we've got a Joey Crawford Special Tonight
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2009/6/9/903702/todays-referee-assignments
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Twin Towers are Back?
This could be huge for the future direction of this team. Everyone can pretty much agree that 4 three point shooters surrounding Dwight is over kill, so I don’t think knocking that done 1 will really affect our outside shooting.
The main question is how far away is Dwight from becoming completely unstoppable on offense? I think just a summer away, which if this is the case we won’t even have to worry about our 2 pt shooting taking a hit.
As for the immediate series at hand, it is awful nice getting that rebounding edge at critical times in the game, as if Stan can just flip a switch.
One last thing, I believe the defensive rebounding issue is partly Gortat boxing out quicker forwards and also partly just the inexperience of those two playing together.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
I don't agree that 4 three-point shooters surrounding Dwight is overkill. It's not.
.. it’s beautiful and it’s why the Magic are in their current position right now.
Orlando is better off without the “tall ball” alignment but it doesn’t hurt to use it situationally.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The fact that 3 point shooting goes up with the twin towers is what I'm referring to.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jun 9, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, word. Okay .. thanks for clarifying.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I think it depends on how Howard can figure out how to pass out the double team.
If Howard can’t figure out how to beat or pass out of the Lakers D, then it’s good to have Gortat in there to get offensive boards and to be an easier pass target for Howard.
I think it also matters on D because now Howard can challenge farther out without Magic losing too much on rebounding, although I noticed that Rashard did a good job staying behind to get rebounds in Game2 so helping Howard rebound on defense is not that big an issue. BTW, i think that’s the reason Magic had a hard time fast breaking, the players were concerned about getting out-rebounded in game 1 so they stayed back.
Another BTW, somwhat lost in the shuffle of Lee’s miss shot is what a great game Lewis had, not just in scoring. I hope he keeps it up, Magic really needs it.
Yeah,Lewis had a lifetime game. If he just can do it again,and again... x4
I think Howard does a good job passing out. It’s Lakers D that causes problems,they are moving so fast and clever. Our thanx to P. Jax LOL
I didn't do this. It should say:
I think that Howard does good job passing out. It is Laker’s D that’s causing problems for us,they are moving so fast & clever. I’ll mention P. Jax sometimes.
That's exactly why the Magic haven't been able to get out and run.
The team has had to sacrifice it’s transition offense to make sure it rebounds the ball.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
BenQ
Thanks for being objective. Not sure if it was your or ER who were initially opposed to this, but looks like you looked at the numebrs and made a decision. The only problem with this to me is foul trouble. If you get them both in foul trouble, the Magic are in HUGE trouble.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
It was E,and I was against TT,too.
As said above,the sample is too small to make a decision,but they seem ok for now.
I don’t think they’ll both get into the foul trouble,due to time spent on the floor,but it depends on SVG.
Well....that's
what has to be monitored closely.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Dwight can do a hell of a job there,and make our lives easier...
He sometimes gets called for a foul without any need or reason… Lack of expirience,i guess.
Lack of awareness, too.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I don't think they need to
As I said after Game 2…the best lineup for Orlando against LA is Lee-Pietrus-Turkoglu-Lewis-Howard.
Nothing against Lee because he has been a very solid defender, but he is struggling to defend the Lakers’ length. Move him to the 1-spot solves that problem and also keeps him on the floor to contribute offensively.
Nelson and Alston haven’t contributed anything so far, and if indications are the same early in Game 3, SVG needs to give this lineup major minutes. The combo of Lee and Turk can share PG responsibilities, since Hedo can’t do it by himself for extended minutes. It’s a good lineup in general, but for a team with LA’s length it’s an even better one to trot out there for a long period of time.
Agreed on lineup,although spot 1 is arguable.
Wow,i don’t envy SVG a bit. Nelson pretty much screwed him,now there are many options,and each one could spell disaster,but on the other hand each one could be a complete success. One should be a psychic to know what’s the best for us LOL
Yeah, would be nice to see that lineup out on the floor.
.. I’ve yet to see that combination against the Lakers for an extended amount of time, which is surprising.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
SB Nation has been acting a little weird today so don't worry about the posts.
You’re not alone ..
None of these findings surprise me. I think it was to be expected for the Magic to struggle offensively but to pick things up defending & rebounding. Common sense there. I, indeed, have been against the move playing the two players BUT, as I stated a few times during this series, I think Stan Van Gundy had to give the combination a try because of the matchups the Lakers present. It’s all about matchups. Nothing different here.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
It may appear that you're double-posting, but you're not.
Just ignore it, leave the post, and come back into the thread.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
.. well, he's running out of time.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Well said...
I think this will be C. Lee’s finest hour; also, Gortat WILL shine.
Those are two great lineups; the Twin Towers, plus the Lee-Pietrus combo, with Lee and Turk taking turns at the point. We need to SPEED things up and DRIVE… DRIVE… DRIVE!
Well see…

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