Los Angeles Lakers 101, Orlando Magic 96 (OT)
by Ben Q Rock on Jun 8, 2009 3:00 AM EDT
in 2008/2009 Recaps
173 comments
The Orlando Magic recovered from a slow start in Game 2 of the NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, but ultimately fell short in overtime by a 101-96 score. Rashard Lewis led all scorers with 34 points, and single-handedly kept Orlando in the game in the second period, scoring 18 of his team's 20 points to stake the Magic to a 5-point halftime deficit. Hedo Turkoglu, too, came up big with 22 points, 6 rebounds, and 4 assists. But the Magic made some costly, sloppy mistakes with the ball with the game--and let's be completely honest, the entire season--in the balance. To win the title, the Magic now have to win 4 out of 5 against a Lakers squad that has flustered its offense in these Finals.
| Team | Pace | Efficiency | eFG% | FT Rate | OReb% | TO Rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Magic | 97 | 99.1 | 48.1% | 25.3 | 24.4 | 20.7 |
| Lakers | 104.1 | 49.4% | 30.8 | 10.5 | 12.4 |
Orlando had a chance to win in regulation after a clutch defensive play by Turkoglu, as he blocked Kobe Bryant's would-be game-winning offering from behind, then signaled for timeout. Orlando had 0.6 seconds with which to work, and ultimately chose to ran a lob play, but not for the person one might expect. The Lakers, like everyone else, have seen footage of Dwight Howard's game-winning alley-oop flush against the San Antonio Spurs two seasons ago, which came on a lob pass from Turkoglu. Magic coach Stan Van Gundy anticipated Pau Gasol's walling off the paint, denying Howard access to the rim, so he drew up the lob for rookie guard Courtney Lee. Turkoglu's pass was mostly on point, but Lee could not convert the layup, and for that he is sure to take a beating from the media in the coming days. Pinning a loss on a player does the opponent a disservice by denying it agency in the game's outcome. The Lakers won this game every bit as much as Orlando lost it, but had Lee converted at the buzzer, it'd be his victory, and Van Gundy would look like a genius. But because the Magic went on to lose, Lee and Van Gundy are scapegoats for missing the shot and for playing a crunch-time backcourt of J.J. Redick and Rafer Alston in the NBA Finals, respectively. Pardon me for ranting here, but our desire to boil entire games down to one play, to pin their outcomes on a single individual, is uncalled for. Trite.
Enough of that. With regulation in the books, the Magic faced the iffy proposition of having to win in overtime on the road. As we know by the final score, things didn't turn out so well for them. They turned the ball over on their first two possessions, three times overall, and shot just 3-of-8 from the field. Y'all needle my co-writer Eddy for his frequently using the word "execution," but he has a point here. The Magic could not get things done in overtime, or for much of the game, against a long, smart Lakers defense which seems to have almost everything figured out.
It seems weird to say that when the Magic's two forwards combine for 56 points on 54.5% (eFG), but it's true. Los Angeles knows Orlando's offensive tendencies. It knows that Dwight Howard prefers to go right in the low post, it knows that Howard frequently brings the ball low enough to get stolen, and it knows that J.J. Redick is not looking for his shot at all. Howard committed 7 turnovers tonight, and to be precise, we should note that not all of them were ballhandling turnovers. And J.J. only coughed it up once, but that's deceptive, because it doesn't indicate the degree to which the Lakers were able to arrange their defense so as to cut off the passing lanes when he drove to the basket. He would have had a few layup chances had he kept driving, and looking to shoot, tonight. It's something that ABC's broadcast crew brought up throughout. And it's correct.
Every playoff loss stings. I almost wrote, "every loss," but clearly losing a mid-January game to a lottery team doesn't even approach what losing the second game of the NBA Finals to go down 2-0 feels like. If there's any consolation, it's that Orlando looked sharper tonight, and for longer stretches, than it did in Game 1. The final score and the length of the game reflect as much. But on this stage, little improvements don't mean much. Wins do. And Orlando is now in a 2-game hole with at most 5 games to play. It's not promising, but maybe tonight is a start. For instance, the Magic controlled the glass for most of the night, as Van Gundy revisited the rarely-seen Howard/Marcin Gortat pairing at center and power forward. Gortat managed just 3 boards in 15 minutes, so he wasn't his usually rebound-gobbling self. Still, their sheer size on the interior for some stretches, in my estimation, went a long way to helping Orlando muster a 9-rebound advantage on Los Angeles. Lewis did his part too, with 11 boards--5 offensive, which is 1 more than the Lakers managed as a team. It's going to take more than great rebounding to beat the Lakers, though. Actually, let's amend that statement: it's going to take more. Period. (Or, if you prefer, full stop).
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Not a consolation but even on espn they admit it
“Redick was forced into extended minutes because Pietrus was whistled for six fouls in 23 minutes — several of them questionable calls when he was defending Bryant one-on-one (although it should be noted that Pietrus refused to say anything negative afterward about any of the six fouls). "
Officials Did Not Decide It
I don’t think the officiating ultimately made a difference, though there were a lot of bogus calls both ways. Both fouls and free throw attempts were virtually even, and the Lakers got nailed by the officials just as badly, i.e., Bynum and Walton couldn’t breathe on a Magic player without drawing a foul, the Lakers were in the penalty in the 4th with almost 8 minutes to go, and there were plenty of phantom calls like Howard’s goal tend on Gasol through the basket and Kobe allegedly losing the ball of his knee in overtime, etc. Can’t blame this one on the refs.
Thank you for being rational
I felt the same way as you but obviously, I have a bias being a Laker fan. I probably wouldn’t be able to be quite so rational had the tables been turned, not until I got a night’s sleep anyway. Definitely alot of phantom calls both ways and I felt that some of the calls that the Lakers got late were make-up calls from earlier. Unfortunate, but at this time of the season, I’ll take anything we can get.
Some of the problem..
was that many of the no-calls/fouls on the magic were in pretty critical parts of the game.. Kobe tripping and falling on his ass was called a foul.. Whats up with guys who can go to the hole and fall over their own big feet getting the benefit of the whistle? Joke. What about courtney lee on an earlier play getting absolutely slammed in the arms – missing the shot, and a no call.. whoa.
It was a conspiracy.
The refs are out to get the Magic. Seriously, your team didn’t execute down the stretch when it mattered. You can’t blame the refs for turnovers or Skip To My Lou and Jameer Nelson give you absolutely nothing. Effort was there; execution wasn’t.
Oh and Hedo shoved Kobe up top which accelerated the fall (he slipped on a wet spot on the floor; it happens). There were a ton of no calls (Hedo clearing out with his right hand on drives to the basket) and missed calls in this game (goal tending by D12; Kobe dribbling ball off leg (was last touched by Magic not Lakers))—which has happened in every game I’ve ever watched.
Hedo clearing out with his right hand?
Um, did you notice the lakers guards are away to get away with full body-to-body checks on Hedo, causing him to leave his feet multiple times without a whistle? Meanwhile if Kobe is breathed on or Pietrus’ 5th foul, where he didn’t touch him and Howard blocked him, Kobe gets the whistle anyways? Please don’t say Hedo gets away with no-calls, LOL what a joke.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
He does. Hedo consistently uses his forearm and hand to clear out. They called it once, after much complaining by Ariza.
As for the 5th on Pietrus, I didn’t see the foul either. Bad call. Like many of the no call or bad calls in the game.
You don't have to see the foul there, it's Kobe.
He’s awarded those, if you breathe on him, it’s a foul, LBJ/Kobe = MJ treatment, sad, sad state and a black eye for the NBA.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
More often than not centers don't get it
in fact, they repeatedly get hacked, but since they draw so many fouls (rightfully) refs are hesitant to give them all of the calls they should get. They’re left to bang away on their own.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I think if anything the refs were biased towards the Magic
Several non-calls on Kobe. For most of the game the Magic led in free throw attempts by a great margin, only in the end did the Lakers make it up. I think the Refs gave the Magic most of the calls in the first half, then the Lakers got calls in the second half to “make up for it”. Of all the calls though, none is more obvious than Dwight Howard’s goal tend on Pau where he reaches his hand through the net.
Gotta love Laker fans
They can have the whole word and still feel insecure lol
"My features are that of a god, its not a facade these rappers wanna be NaS"- Nasir Jones QB's Finest
Kristin Kreuk is teh love.
Still miss em: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvgVn0gg1E
by Wasabi Steak on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
And how about that no-call Pau Gasol goal tend? This series should be 1-1, NBA is rigged.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't affect the rim.
Check the Daily Dime, the NBA already commented. But if we are asking about goal tending, what about D12’s block in the first quarter? That was CLEARLY a goal tending (unless D12 is allowed to stick his hand through the basket to block shots).
Whether or not it affects the rim isn't a part of the rule book, read it.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Take it up with the NBA.
NBA supervisor of officials Bernie Fryer told ESPN.com that if Gasol’s hand had shaken the basket, caused the stanchion to move or touched the rim while the ball was on the rim, the correct call would have been goaltending.
But since none of those things happened, according to Fryer, “It was a cut-and-dried no-call.”
Ah, NBA, changing the rules as they go along to satisfy Kobe
No surprise here.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at the rules for yourself:
Here are the rules for goaltending:
Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a “field goal attempt” or trying for a goal.
h. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.
The two clauses in question are c. and i. The ball clearly did not have a chance to score in the eyes of the official, and Gasol, though touched the rim did not vibrate it to cause it to make an unnatural bounce.
Therefore it is not a goaltend. Don’t be a sore lose DieSlow, use your brain – you’re making other Magic fans look bad.
Easy for him to say that now.
"One thing about knowing that you're dying is that it keeps reminding you you're alive so it's no time to pass up a party."
- Warren Zevon
by Wally Balls 407 on Jun 8, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, when the game is on the line, the rule book should be "cut and dry"
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I say play by the rule book, otherwise what is the point of having rules and officials?
If we’re just going to change them as we go along?
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Discretion.
I hear you. You are upset about the loss, but I wouldn’t focus on the refs or that last play in regulation. The Magic had 20 turnovers, resulting in 28 points for the Lakers. They outrebounded, they hit 10 3 pointers, Kobe was a non-factor most of the game and they lost. It was about execution. Not the refs.
I agree, Magic didn't execute from start to finish.
I believe Courtney Lee and the Refs did play a large role in deciding the outcome, however.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
It was about execution, not the refs.
Orlando lost the game, not the freakin’ officials.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Refs sucked both ways.
Bad calls all around. One team was not favored over the other. Let it go.
Yeah I figure the bad officiating balanced out so both teams had equal reason to be ticked off
The officiating is not an issue here.
YOU should read the rulebook
The NBA rulebook on goaltending states:
RULE NO. 11-BASKETBALL INTERFERENCE-GOALTENDING
Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a “field goal attempt” or trying for a goal.
h. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.
For part c, clearly the ball did not have a chance to score in the eyes of the official and for part i, which is the part in question, Gasol did not vibrate the rim so that it caused the ball to make an unnatural bounce, in fact it did not change the trajectory of the ball at all as he touched it before the ball was even heading towards the rim.
Don’t be hypocritical and ask others to read the rulebook when you yourself haven’t. It makes your fellow Magic fans look uneducated, which I’m sure they aren’t. It’s just you who is a sore loser.
If you want to compare no-calls throughout the course of the game to no-calls that decided the game we can do that
How about Pietrus’ 5th foul, where Kobe was allowed 2 free throws. He made both, therefore, that’s two points the Lakers should have never had, therefore, this game shouldn’t have gone to OT.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Sarcasm.
We can talk no-calls throughout the entire game, but when the game is on the line, you have to play by the rulebook, it is cut and dry.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, sorry, let me rephrase that to
“as time is expiring”
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
No Call.
That’s usually what happens in these situations. You aren’t happy with a no call. I wouldn’t be happy with a goal tending since Pau inadvertently touched the rim and otherwise didn’t alter the arc/bounce of the ball. Now if he had blocked the shot through the rim, I wouldn’t be disagreeing with you. The right call was a no call.
I'm saying, the rules are the rules.
For the last time, you can’t change the rulebook as we go. That’s what the offseason is for.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Derek Fisher = FLOPPER
Every time Dwight would set a high pick fish would purposely make contact, throw his head back and arms up, and stumble to the floor. I know he’s a vet and knows the tricks of the trade when it comes to drawing fouls but those were so bogus. And how about when he tripped over himself going after a loose ball and they called Peaches for his second. It’s even ridiculous that bums like fish get calls that we never EVER get.
"One thing about knowing that you're dying is that it keeps reminding you you're alive so it's no time to pass up a party."
- Warren Zevon
by Wally Balls 407 on Jun 8, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
You cats are really working yourselves up about fouls.
D12 sticks his hip out after contact. He does almost every time. And it’s a moving pick EVERY time. He was called once. So I suspect he’ll keep doing it.
As Peaches, he fouled him before he tripped (i.e., he caused him to lose balance). It happens when both players are going for the ball.
Are you high???
Dwight’s never moving on his picks. He even puts his arms straight up as to avoid as much contact as possible so I don’t know where you see him sticking his hip out at people.
"One thing about knowing that you're dying is that it keeps reminding you you're alive so it's no time to pass up a party."
- Warren Zevon
by Wally Balls 407 on Jun 8, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Not high at all.
If he moves his hip out as the defensive player is trying to go around the initial pick, that’s a moving pick.
It goes both ways.
Both teams get calls. It’s the nature of the beast.
The moving pick is like holding in football. It could be called on every play, but it isn’t unless it’s blatant.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Enough bickering about the officials.
Goodness. Talk about the players, not the refs.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
We're not Bobcat fans.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
^ Was a joke in regards to calling us "cats"
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
There was maybe one Pietrus foul...
that should have been a no call. For every egregious Pietrus call, there were 1 or 2 bumps and grinds the refs let Turk get away with on Kobe. Hedo doesn’t have the footspeed to stop Kobe unless he’s literally body checking him every few steps. The only time the refs gave him a blocking call was when he literally forced Bryant out of bounds. Howard got away with the worst goal tend of the playoffs. The refs missed a crucial possession call when Turk stripped Kobe and erroneously gave the ball to the Magic.
It’s amazing how Chris Sheridan can write a whole article about how Orlando got jipped on a no call that the NBA supported that DIDN’T affect the game at all (Pau Gasol “touching” the rim when Courtney Lee bricked the layup).
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
umm
How can you even bring up Pau Gasol’s possible goaltend at the end of regulation, but not even discuss Dwight Howard’s BLATANT goaltend earlier in the game on the Gasol reverse dunk? If that’s called, then this game never goes to overtime with the missed Lee layup.
There were missed calls on both ends. That's it .. let's just move on.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I call BS
To say that the refs are calling it for the magic is not borne out by the facts.
Game 1:
PF LA 23
PF Orl 21
FT LA 15 of 18
FT Orl 21 of 29
Game 2
PF LA 25
PF Orl 24
FT LA 24 of 28
FT Orl 20 of 27
So far in 2 games LA have been called for 48 fouls Orl for 43. Free throws – LA shot 39 of 46 Orl 41 of 56.
So the Lakers have been called for 5 more fouls total and Orl has shot 10 more free throws. If the Magic could actually make their free throws the series might be different.
It's not as easy simply pointing out foul totals and free-throw attempts. Too many variables.
I don’t want to discuss the officiating because it’s rather pointless, but it’s worth saying.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The officiating was bad either way, but to the Magic fans who think that it cost you the game
you guys are just being silly. Like i said in an earlier comment, it was NOT a goaltend. For it to be a goaltend it has to have an actual chance of going in, according to the official (which it clearly did not) and the player had to have vibrated the rim to cause the an unnatural bounce (which it clearly did not).
For the magic fans who think that it was a goaltend you should:
1. Read the rulebook parts c and i and
2. Look at this photo that wasn’t called by the officials for a goaltend:
I've stated this several times. That was a missed call and indeed, a goaltend.
.. and you’re right, the play at the end of the game didn’t cost Orlando a win.
But can we please drop it? This “debate” has been completely butchered to death.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
.. and please do not spam posts.
If you want to discuss things, that’s cool. But to post this picture several times in different posts throughout the sit isn’t a good way of getting your point across. We don’t tolerate spamming.
Thanks.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
If only Rashard had gotten some help in the first half...
He shot 8 of 12, including 4 of 6 on threes, for 20 points; the rest of the Magic combined to shoot 4 of 25 (16%!) in that first half.
Lewis, Turk, and Howard scored 73 of the 96 Magic points; that means the seven other Magic players who played barely averaged a little more than three points each.
D12, who played better defensively than he did in Game 1, is capable of doing so much better offensively; the seven turnovers by Dwight are especially troublesome.
Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom gave Kobe Bryant lots of help offensively, while Derek Fisher has been rock-steady at the point in the first two games.
Despite being down 2-0, the Magic should be encouraged that they came so close to winning Game 2 despite playing less than their best.
Playing in front of the home crowd should give the Magic a huge emotional boost the next three games.
"Why not us... why not now?"
by Mike from Illinois on Jun 8, 2009 3:52 AM EDT reply actions
The crowd needs to go ballistic .. Orlando needs the emotional boost, more than ever.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Exciting game
But I do not understand when nelson is obviously not in game shape and alston is playing like crap, svg does not play johnson. No neck has been very consistent all playoffs. Makes no sense to leave him on the bench.
I just do not think that the magic are big enough to beat the Lakers. The same problem denver had, not enough length. Laker bigs are too good and too long.
Good luck in Orlando, y’all need it.
I don't think it's a matter of length deciding the difference between the two teams.
It’s been lack of execution, poor guard play, and other factors that have doomed Orlando.
Not length. That hasn’t been much of an issue, especially for Lewis and Turkoglu. Dwight Howard is having his problems because Los Angeles is coming with the double-team (aided by the poor guard play).
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Fun game
Everyone knew that Orlando was going to shoot better, no matter how well the Lakers defended and boy did they shoot better. Those were some insane threes by Hedo and Lewis in the second half. Seriously scary stuff.
Honestly, this game was the kind of game I love to watch the most. I’m one of those sick, masochistic people who absolutely love seeing smart defense and both sides played (mostly) great defense. This definitely wasn’t one of those cases where bad offense made the offense look artificially great imo.
The fourth quarter was a thriller and I felt that the Lakers got the benefit of some calls towards the end. I also think that Orlando had gotten away with a few earlier but I would understand any Orlando fan feeling a bit bitter. Still, I feel that this game ultimately boiled down to missed opportunities by the Magic. Anytime they got on a little run, they’d make a critical turnover that would stem the flow, there was a stretch where they missed four straight free throws, and their guard play was absolutely dismal. In a game this close, that’s fatal.
Again, great great game. Should be interesting going to Orlando. The crowd should help them make a bit more of a push on their runs, although I recall seeing that Orlando actually performed worse offensively at home and made up for it defensively. The Lakers might have to rely on Kobe to carry their offensive if that’s the case; if Lamar keeps up his play (I can only hope) though, this could be a shorter series than I anticipated.
Yeah, Odom has been THE x-factor in the series.
I noted during my preview of the series .. when he goes, so go the Lakers.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The turnovers in the fourth and OT were killer
Hedo can play the point-forward position, but not for extended minutes. But for some reason, Van Gundy wanted Redick out there at the PG spot instead of Lee who could have helped Hedo shoulder the ball handling responsibilities.
Overall though this game was a much better representation of how good these teams are than Game 1 was.
And even though Orlando scored more and shot better, I will still argue LA played better defense last night than they did on Thursday.
by Lee for three on Jun 8, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
Not a fan of double posting but I had to get this out there. Why is it that when teams have low scoring quarters, this is attributed to teams not showing up and deemed ugly basketball? Just read the Daily Dime on ESPN, and reading them bag on both teams for putting up 15 during the first instead of applauding them for their excellent defense puts me in a sour mood.
Yeah, that's just a copout and a lazy assertion.
Despite the first quarter, the two teams still combined for 197 points.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The blame game going on around the Internet is making me so angry
Seriously, you can’t pin this on an individual—I’m pretty sure 20 turnovers leading to 20+ points was a TEAM effort. Ughh. (not sure the exact stat, sorry)
by Stan in a Van (Down by the River) on Jun 8, 2009 8:18 AM EDT reply actions
SVG is a genius.
He made some excellent adjustments (especially Rashard moving without the ball), but ultimately this game came down to execution. No one person is to blame, but there were several potential fastbreak situations (3 on 1) where the Magic came up empty because they were going for the 3-pointer instead of the layup or drawing contact (or both).
I expect Orlando to execute better at home. I also expect the Lakers (and especially Kobe Bryant) to play a lot better offensively (and rotate better defensively). Game 3 should be a barn burner.
Good thoughts.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
i'm in agreement with ben
in thinking that blaming this loss on courtney lee would be absolutely ignorant. and surely, the media will go on to do this.
this was a team effort; a team near-win, but ultimately, a team loss. and i’m damn proud of that team.
what i end up boiling it down to is that this is a first finals appearance for this squad. even though we have been through a ton of adversity, the lakers were still here last year, and still got dominated last year. this is important i think because it shows we have to take our punches…
that being said this series is far from over, and i truly believe that. with all of us at amway supporting our squad, i see us taking the first 2 of 3. the real question is, can they snag 3 in a row?
That's the question, can the Magic win 3 in a row at home?
I’m not so sure Orlando can, but if the the team wants to win the Finals .. it’ll have to.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
What a bummer
This finals reminds me of last year when one team was just hungrier…that team being the lakers this time around…although this game was very much in reach for the magic, just didnt execute down the stretch.
I dont see why anyone would pin the loss on courtney lee…that would be dumb, although what a heartbreaker he missed that shot
Execute. That's the key word.
.. and yeah, pinning the loss on C. Lee is a travesty. How about pinning it on THE TEAM? Ugh.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
What I am mad about is everyone is pinning the loss on Courtney lee… i mean, how many articles say ‘missed an easy layup’.. hello, you try catching a pass from halfcourt while in mid-air, lay it up and in with .6 seconds on the shot-clock of an nba finals game… the game was lost – and this is an accurate measurement – by 20 turnovers resulting in 28 points. period. I mean, Lee could have made the shot.. but dude, I know 98 percent of all nba players wouldnt have.
Well said, sir.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Given the stakes, yeah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Great write-up, as usual
of a very difficult game. None of this “I will blame some players, blame the refs, then find a sharp object to impale myself on” type of knee-jerk Simmons-lite stuff.
I defended Redick last night in the post-game thread, not because he didn’t make mistakes, but because I get frustrated at how incorrectly his role is perceived by even national media members who should know better. With that said, this analysis does point out perfectly what it is JJ needs to do and what his weakness is: he can be successful within a very narrow set of circumstances, in particular lots of playing time and confidence in his shot. He did well against Boston because Stan had confidence in him to start and wanted to play Courtney against House off the bench.
But against the Lakers, Orlando needs someone to play the Aaron Brooks role — disrupt the defense with slashing penetration and kick-outs, and be able to make elbow jumpers and drives when the defense cuts off your passing lanes. Rafer and Jameer haven’t been able to find their shot, and JJ tends to lose confidence when he misses his first few, and doesn’t take enough shots inside the 3 point line in the seams of the defense. As Ben (and Jeff Van Gundy on the broadcast) aptly observed, the Lakers knew after a while that JJ wasn’t looking for his shot and played him for the pass on the key turnover in OT.
Yeah, Redick gets a bad rap sometimes. It's a shame but perception is reality.
The point guard play has doomed the Magic so far in this series, which is a shame.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
NY Media blasting the officials for the Pau Gasol no-call goaltend
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
Also blasting Lee...
sure, it not JUST HIS fault that they lost, but it is HIS FAULT that he missed two game-winning layups to win the game.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, I think the numerous bad foul calls on Pietrus evened it out by then.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL.
You are a true die hard fan. Our no-calls and bad calls affected the game, your no calls and bad calls were irrelevant.
Kinda like how when our players trip, it's out of bounds on Orlando.
When LBJ or Kobe trips, it’s a foul on Orlando? Yeah.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
How manny effing times did ariza body check turk as he brought it up the court and the refs never called a single one????
by AB's triple double on Jun 8, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
That's what I said above in response to Mamba's "no-calls"
we can’t breathe on Kobe, but LA’s guards can absolutely body-check Turk, to the point where he’s forced to leave his feet and it’s not a foul?
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
None.
That’s a foul on Ariza. What you are thinking about is Hedo trying to get past Ariza and using his forearm and hand to try and clear him out. Most of the night, it was a no call, which was in your favor. They only called it once when he cleared out to make a shot.
No, I'm thinking of the guards coming to the perimeter to defend Hedo and body-checking him to try to jar the bar loose.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
and
how many times did Hedo get away with using his offarm to block and push Ariza away from him on the way up the court? That’s a foul, plain and simple. It got called only one time, after a fan got up and started screaming at the ref directly in front of him about the armbar. Hedo then proceeded to spin on the elbow and used his arm to push off (for the hundredth time), and FINALLY the ref makes the call.
Not sure what play you are referencing.
I didn’t see a play where Kobe simply tripped. I recall a play where his foot slipped and Hedo pushed him up top, but I’m guessing you didn’t see that.
Kobe and Fisher both flopped on similiar tripping calls
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Hah. You're both not going to agree on anything so why continue debating?
Seems rather pointless, in my opinion.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
True, but I guess that's the point of having a blog such as 3QC, to collapse controversial aspects of last night's game.
Not to come on here and say, OMG what a fun game to watch! No, we’re going to talk about what has us upset, that’s natural.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL @ "to collapse" meant to discuss...
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand, and that's perfectly fine ..
.. but call it even, and drop the issue.
I understand your frustrated over last night’s loss.
Debating officiating is .. I don’t even know what to compare it to. It’s the most fruitless thing to argue in sports because it’s such a subjective argument.
In my opinion, at least.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
That's fine, but people shouldn't be told what to do or what to discuss
on a blog that welcomes discussion from the Magic & sports community which played a large role in building this forum. It’s obviously the right of the owner of this blog to either close comments or put out rules that say don’t discuss this or that, but from my knowledge Ben has never done that. If people want to discuss officiating or whether or not Courtney Lee lost the game, they shouldn’t be told strictly, “that’s not the case,” and told to stop debating it. They pseudo-dictatorship like.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
that's pseudo-dictatorship like.
Mind you, nobody is cursing, being derogatory or the like, just engaging in discussions that you don’t believe in.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
When it gets to telling people "are they high" ..
.. that’s when the line is crossed. I don’t care if people debate and discuss, but name calling isn’t necessary. Be civil about it.
I’m not pointing the finger at you. I’m speaking in general.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Haha, I hope you aren't because I never said "are you high" to anyone in regards to anything.
I’ll engage in debate with a Lakers fan, but as long as they coming back at me with their points, I’m going to respectfully respond.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
That's fine.
Like I said above, I don’t like discussing officiating but it’s all my opinion at the end of the day. People differ. That’s okay.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I hear ya E.
A lot of people don’t like discussing it, such as yourself and Ben and other members on the board.
Others do feel it plays a large part in the game, I mean, look at New York radio this morning for instance, NY RADIO! of all places, Complaining that the refs stole the game from the Magic, so I’d say it is a prominent discussion people engage in after the fact, it’s part of Sports, the good-ole “what-if”
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
.. just because they’re talking about it doesn’t mean that they’re right. It’s pointless to talk about, imo.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
we're all so upset...
try to take it easy as much as you can.
it’s a great success to be in the finals,in the first place.
Yeah, savor the moment.
I know it sucks that the Magic are down 2-0 and the media is jumping on Orlando at every step of the way, but that’s just the way it goes.
At least the team is in the NBA Finals.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I agree.
It definitely sucks and I’m being very critical of the team and the players, but when it’s all said and done, I’m going to be very proud of this squad looking back on the season.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
It's been a hell of a year. Truly memorable.
.. even if the end result may not be what the fans like to see.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
dang
yall are in full throttle “glad to be here” mode. I’m not happy at all, I want a championship!!!!
One Freaken Second
by magic fanatic on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
So do I, but still need to savor the moment.
I want to see Orlando win as bad as anyone else.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I think it's OK for the fans to be in glad to be here mode
as long as the players aren’t.
by Lee for three on Jun 8, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Did anyone see after the game
Dwight and Hedo were walking along the sideline where Jack sits and Jack pulled both them over and was saying something to both of them. From the players body language it looked like words of encouragement not to mention Dwight was joking around with him before game 1. I don’t know if anyone else saw it but I thought it was really cool to see Jack do that. He’s a true fan and a blast to watch when he gets upset with the refs lol. He can do whatever he wants though b/c he’s had those seats for like 30 something years. Too bad we couldn’t catch a few of those breaks down the stretch (D12 slapping a poor pass right to Gasol under the hoop or C. Lee’s missed alley oop). Oh well, hopefully we can come out on a mission tomorrow night.
"One thing about knowing that you're dying is that it keeps reminding you you're alive so it's no time to pass up a party."
- Warren Zevon
Jack wants game 6 and 7.
And Magic will give him.
I noticed that too.
.. nice of Jack to do that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Am I alone in hoping to see AJ start, TLue backup?
Rafer 3s are hard to stomach. And Nelson is not even looking to shoot.
And while I thought JJ did a good job in the no PG line up, I really would like to see better ball handling especially the way Lakers are hounding Turk full court. Hats off to Turk tho, he never coughed it up.
How about Lue start and we'll let Gortat be the 2nd PG off the bench.
Throw a real wrench at Phil.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
another reason to put a ball handler in that line up
is to free Turk up and save him some energy to defend Kobe, which he did admirably.
In end-game scenarios, it's fine.
But yeah, Turkoglu can’t handle the ball and guard Kobe for an extended period. That’s asking too much from Hedo .. similar to what happened with the Cleveland Cavaliers and LBJ.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Might as well try Hedo defending Kobe
I mean, we’ve got nothing to lose at this point and Hedo played magnificent D on Kobe last night for a few minutes. I don’t buy into the lateral quickness, I’ll take Hedo’s lack of lateral quickness in comparison to JJ’s (LOL) for the trade-off that Hedo brings with his height and length.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The lateral quickness issue will be glaring the more minutes Hedo defends Kobe.
In any case, I think Turkoglu should guard Bryant if it comes to that situation.
As you said, the team has nothing to lose at this point.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Yeah, we have to start throwing mad wrenches, LA just has our number right now.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about the latter statement.
This isn’t Orlando v. Cleveland or Orlando v. Detroit. Note how I gave extreme examples on both sides of the issue. Lakers are just executing. Magic aren’t.
It’s simple. I mean .. I say it all the time but it comes down to execution. If Orlando just executed better, the team would have won last night. Despite everything.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Thats true in a sense
but execution is only possible when you have a good idea of what the other side is doing. To that extent, I think that the Lakers have “figured out” Orlando. They seem to know what tendencies certain players have and their game plan is centered on taking players out of their comfort levels.
On the other hand, I’m certain that Orlando has a pretty good idea of what the Lakers are going to do as well. So yeah, I agree execution, or the lack of it, is key.
Anthony Johnson
Ha. No but really, is he the only active player with no PT? I’m trying to think…
by Stan in a Van (Down by the River) on Jun 8, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Foyle
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Van Gundy has tried almost everything I can think of, aside from playing Dad.
.. in the end, the players have to execute and make shots. It’s that simple.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Lee can't be blamed for this loss
Not when there were too many missed FTs and too many turnovers down the stretch. Had we played cleaner and executed better, the result might be in our favor.
well put
Lee’s a rookie too. He sat most the game once he picked up fouls and then we draw up an in-bound alley-oop. Don’t get me wrong, excellent play selection but that’s a lot of weight on a kids shoulders and he did the best he could and that’s all I can ask for
"One thing about knowing that you're dying is that it keeps reminding you you're alive so it's no time to pass up a party."
- Warren Zevon
by Wally Balls 407 on Jun 8, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
Besides, I have a tougher time digesting the missed 3 by Reddick late in the game.
Hitting crazy alleyoop layup with 0.6sec left is not exactly in Lee’s job description, but hitting wide open 3s is in JJ’s. Not that I am blaming him, I am just saying, there are so many other things that went wrong that could have gone right before we get to the Lee layup.
As I stated in the game thread and on Twitter.
The Magic lost because of turnovers, lack of execution, poor guard play, etc.
Not because Lee made a near impossible attempt at the basket possible and almost make the layup.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
C'mon it wasn't near impossible
it wasn’t even contested, it’s actually somewhat common for players to go up from behind the back board as they’re leaving their feet and making the layup, banking it in. Sure Lee caught it in the air behind the backboard and had to come back around, but still, it was a manageable bucket that should have fallen. I’d like to hear what Lee said in regards to that play.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I have Lee's quotes in the TMA post. Just wait for that to hit in 30 minutes.
.. it was near impossible because of the angle he had to the basket (there’s a picture that captures that), combined with the fact he had 0.6 seconds on the clock to put a shot up. It had to be an instantaneous catch and shoot. No time to adjust, and Pau Gasol at the rim on top of all that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Lee's shot way more difficult than it looked
They’ve been showing the replay of that last-second layup from a diagonal angle under the basket. By the time Lee laid the ball up after he caught the pass, his head was already past the backboard. I would submit that he could only make that exact same shot (I’m talking same angle) less than five times out of ten. He was going full speed, and he had very little time to lay it in…not only that, he had to make it over Gasol and he only had 0.6 second to do it. There is no way that they should compare the play to the Nick Anderson FTs in 1995. Hopefully it doesn’t affect the kid’s career. He’s one of the reasons the Magic made it to the Finals.
by The Dude Abides on Jun 8, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions
Definitely was a difficult attempt.
It’s a testament to Lee’s athletic ability that he was able to make a play on the ball.
.. and yeah, to compare it to Nick Anderson’s four missed free-throws is the most asinine comparison I’ve ever heard in my young life. But hey, that’s the national media for you. Jump on a story and run with it!
Courtney will be fine.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The fact that we were able to overcome official bias and a "team of destiny" and almost win this game should be heartening
The pressure is on the Lakers. They have to win in Orlando to put us away. I can see us leaving Orlando up 3-2, and stealing Game 6.
We know something you don't know
And if we don't share then we don't grow
Unabomber set the whole world on fire
LOL, the pressure is not on the Lakers
as long as they win one of three (we’d be lucky if they only won one) in Orlando they’re in a great position.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
The pressure is on Orlando to hold court at home and make it a series. Los Angeles just needs to, at minimum, win a game. The Magic have to win three in a row to flip the script on the Lakers.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I can't believe we're down 2-0
I’m having such horrible flashbacks… :(
We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors.
I fully expect 'Meer to start the rest of the way.
I credit Rafer a lot, for bringing us as far as we got. We would have never made it to the Finals if we didn’t trade for him. With that said, this rotation can’t continue. Either ‘Meer needs to start and let Rafer get 12-16 minutes, or Rafer needs to start and get starters minutes, make up your mind SVG, this inconsistency isn’t working.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions
Really? That would surprise me.
I think Rafer will do better at home. Well, here’s hoping.
by Stan in a Van (Down by the River) on Jun 8, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Rafer. Does he frustrate the hell out of me? Yeah, but so does every other Magic player.
.. he can’t start. Not anymore. Like I said yesterday, at least play Jameer because he’s going to make shots, despite the numerous deficiencies he’s got going on defensively right now. Use Dad as back-up.
Fin.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Ouch, that would be craaaazy to take Rafer completely out of the mix.
Would definitely cause problems in the off-season and going into next year with our PG rotation.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't care at this point.
Rafer has done nothing to merit playing time and I know I’m being harsh because he deserves credit for taking the Magic to this point. But his inability to make shots is killing the team.
Lakers won’t even guard him, which has allowed them to double-down on Dwight Howard, etc.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Well he has done a lot to meritplaying time lol
Its just he has shaky shot selection. I would argue Dwight’s lack of aggression is a bigger problem
"My features are that of a god, its not a facade these rappers wanna be NaS"- Nasir Jones QB's Finest
Kristin Kreuk is teh love.
Still miss em: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvgVn0gg1E
by Wasabi Steak on Jun 8, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant in this series, not the playoffs.
Dwight’s lack of aggression is, in part, due to the point guard play.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
He has a fraigle mentality.
His comments after Game 1 made it clear that Jameer getting those minutes got into his head. I don’t know if he will snap out of it before Game 3. I hope not. : )
No words needed.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions
Lot's of good stuff on basketblog this morning, that being one image.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
That was a missed call, obviously
.. but enough about the goaltending talk. It’s getting a little out of hand.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I feel you
but the ball wasn’t going in regardless. He went up with too much momentum. It is what it is.
One Freaken Second
by magic fanatic on Jun 8, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Check your rule book.
Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a “field goal attempt” or trying for a goal.
h. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent’s basket, the offended team is awarded two points, if the attempt is from the two point zone and three points if it is from the three point zone. The crediting of the score and subsequent procedure is the same as if the awarded score has resulted from the ball having gone through the basket, except that the official shall hand the ball to a player of the team entitled to the throw-in. If the violation is at a team’s own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.
Pau touching the rim incidentally didn’t fall into ANY of the above categories since the ball didn’t bounce unnaturally as a result. The refs made the right call. Let it go.
Lol, you read the rule book:
Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player NEAR HIS OWN BASKET has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
h. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent’s basket, the offended team is awarded two points, if the attempt is from the two point zone and three points if it is from the three point zone. The crediting of the score and subsequent procedure is the same as if the awarded score has resulted from the ball having gone through the basket, except that the official shall hand the ball to a player of the team entitled to the throw-in. If the violation is at a team’s own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.
What your referencing discusses a potential offensive goal tending that the PLAYERS OWN BASKET. Newsflash: Pau wasn’t at HIS OWN BASKET.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the rule on goal tending.
I copied the rule so you could see that nothing Pau did was goal tending. The closest was( i) but the key was that he didn’t vibrate the rim to cause an unnatural bounce of the ball. That’s what the NBA said this morning, which you suggested was them changing the rule book. So that’s one for the NBA rule book/officials, 0 for DieSlowKeyshawn.
And Pau wasn’t touching the ring while the ball was using the basket ring, so (a) wasn’t an issue from the start.
Again, the rule you posted is in regards to offensive goaltending.
Pau was not as HIS OWN BASKET. Rewrite your scoring total :) thanks!
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that right?
Well please post the defensive goaltending rule then. I was under the impression that this rule applied to any interference (see the Penalty section discussing the penalty in either case). But obviously I could have copied the wrong language.
So please post the defensive goaltending rule, I’ll admit that I am wrong and we can drop this all together.
You're Completely Misreading the Rule
The “NEAR HIS OWN BASKET” language you are citing fall within the EXCEPTION to the rule that a player can’t touch the ball or rim when the ball is resting on the rim, and it only applies when he legally is in contact with the ball in the first place, i.e., if someone is dunking the ball they won’t call it as offensive interference if their hand happens to hit the rim while the ball is going through the hoop. Mamba is reading the rule correctly, and the NBA has already confirmed it. No goal tend on Gasol.
Him going up at the rim like that is going to cause a vibration
That much contact+momentum+strength is going to vibrate the backboard. Again, I don’t think the ball was going in but that was Definitely not a legal defensive move.
One Freaken Second
by magic fanatic on Jun 8, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
An Unnatural bounce.
That’s what has to happen. He didn’t pull down on the rim. He touched it. The shot went off the front of the iron because of the angle.
It's done. It's over with.
Magic still had a chance to win in overtime, and didn’t. Lakers did.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Magic had chances to win in the 4th and didn't get it done. They were playing from behind much of OT.
The non-goaltend didn’t strike me as controversial as the ball wasn’t affected.
I was just happy Pau didn’t break his hand, which was the first thing I thought about…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I wouldn't mind
we could us Gasol out of this series right now
One Freaken Second
by magic fanatic on Jun 8, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
So what about Dwight's goaltend?
It came earlier in the game so that one doesn’t matter? Hey, at least the refs were consistent with the call.
Or it got cancelled out by the fouls on Pietrus? Alright how bout the Hedo strip that they called out on Kobe when it was clearly on Hedo.
Cancelled out by Kobe’s trip? Ok, then how bout Pau’s clean block on Dwight that was called a foul.
Look it’s easy to point fingers and argue each call. The fact of the matter is, even if you think there was a bias towards the Lakers, it’s by no means an overwhelming bias. The reality is that the home team tends to get a few more calls. That’s why teams work so hard in the regular season to get home court advantage. Maybe that’s not how it should be, but that’s how it is.
Like I said here and elsewhere.
There were missed calls on both sides. Let’s just move on ..
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Wow...Didnt even look at that image
sigh.. :(
"My features are that of a god, its not a facade these rappers wanna be NaS"- Nasir Jones QB's Finest
Kristin Kreuk is teh love.
Still miss em: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvgVn0gg1E
PG production..
Our PG production this series has been terrible. At this point, I think AJ is better off the bench. Jameers struggles even getting the ball to the basket on 3 point attempts. AJ has provided a spark for this team several times this seaon. Right now Jameer looks lost and is turning the ball over on easy plays.
I have several things I want to say about D12’s offensive ability, but it is pointless you can’t change it overnight.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Time to tighten the belt and get MAD!!!
Forget game two: We did NOT execute down the stretch, plain and simple. C. Lee’s missed shots (2) late in the game are inconsequential; we missed too many free throws, mishandled too many balls, and our guards just didn’t play at all on offense.
The sad part is that with each game, I can see the Team improve; we have taken over rebounding, our big three ARE producing NEAR top performance, our defense HAS stepped up. Nelson IS getting better and better with each passing game. From now on, he should get longer playing time.
The question remains: Will he be able to come back to the point of impacting the game, before the series runs out?
Now, we face the music. We dig deep inside and play with ALL our hearts out; NO RESERVATIONS; NO REGRETS; LIVE OR DIE!
I agree
Our inexperience shows. We are making mistakes that we normally don’t make. SVG made great adjustments in Game 2, losing that game hurts.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
It happens.
.. just need to win Game 3 and go from there.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
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