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Around SBN: Defend That, Digger! The Overrated/underrated edition

Los Angeles Lakers 101, Orlando Magic 96 (OT): The Morning After

  • Courtney Lee's Magic moment comes up short as Orlando loses Game 2 to the Los Angeles Lakers
    Brian Schmitz looks back on a tough loss for the Orlando Magic against the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 2 of the NBA Finals.

    Turkoglu did just about everything to get the win, playing more roles than Lakers courtside jester Jack Nicholson. He played point guard, clutch performer, passer supreme and defensive hero. He blocked Kobe Bryant's shot from behind in the last second and officials huddled to put .6 seconds on the clock.

    With the Lakers expecting the alley-oop to go to Howard, Lee broke free but missed the bunny. [...]

    "I tried to get it up as quick as I possibly could, but it rolled off the rim," Lee said. "Me and Turk connected, but the shot didn't fall. I don't think we lost the game just because I missed a layup, but we could have won it, yeah." 
  • ALLEY-OOPS
    Mike Bianchi writes about Kobe Bryant's work ethic and how its influenced Dwight Howard in a positive way. 

  • Magic must rally at home after Game 2 OT loss to Lakers
    George Diaz asserts that the Magic have to conjure up its biggest comeback in the playoffs this year, starting in Game 3 tomorrow, if the team wants to beat the Lakers and win the title.   

  • Orlando Magic look to fill their presence in the paint in Game 2
    Kyle Hightower states Orlando was able to rebound and score in the paint better than Los Angeles, but the team couldn't take care of the ball.

    Sunday the Magic were successful in flipping both numbers to their side, holding a 44-35 rebounding edge and 30-28 advantage in the paint.

    But unfortunately there is another beaming number that will likely have Van Gundy scratching his head for the next few days: 20 turnovers.

    "It crushed us in the end," Van Gundy said.
  • Hunting for shots
    Hightower talks about the good play of Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu. 

  • Not all Central Floridians feel the magic of the NBA Finals
    Apparently, there are people in Orlando that don't care that the Magic are in the NBA Finals (to which I say, shame on them). One person, quoted by the Sentinel, even went as far to say the team didn't deserve to play for a title. 

  • Lakers Move Closer to Another Title
    Tim Povtak of NBA FanHouse recaps last night's game between the Magic and the Lakers. 

  • No Point in Orlando's Game 2 Loss
    Matt Steinmetz of NBA FanHouse gathers Orlando head coach Stan Van Gundy's rationale for playing with no point guard in the fourth quarter. 

    "I will say this: I'm not sure I've got another lineup to throw out there that you haven't seen now," Van Gundy said. "Unless I'm going to play like Dwight (Howard), Marcin (Gortat), Tony (Battie), Rashard (Lewis) and Hedo. I don't have another one right now.

    "We played with no point guard, we played conventionally, we had Rashard at the three, we played Hedo at the one, two and three. We played Rashard at the three and four. We played big, we played with no point guard. What do they say, just keep throwing stuff at the wall and hope something sticks."

    Van Gundy said that what prompted his point guard-less offense was a simple matter of trying to find some scoring. Alston went 1-for-8 from the field and Nelson finished just 1-for-3.

    "I thought Rafer was playing well, but they're just leaving him on every post-up, and we couldn't get the ball in the basket," Van Gundy said. "So we're just searching for someone to make a shot. That was the only thing. We were just trying to see if we could get somebody out there who would make shots off the double-team and pick-and-rolls."

    When asked how he thought the Magic played when they played without a point guard, he responded: "You can decide how effective it was."
  • Courtney Lee's Layup Doesn't Go Down

    "He missed it," Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy said. "I don't know what else to say. Hedo made a great pass, and we missed it. I don't really know. I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt. I just don't know what else to say about it. It was a great pass, it was right there, and he missed it." [...]

    Said Bryant: "Honestly, it was just a brilliant play. It was just a very, very smart play that he drew up. He knew my eye was more on the shooters coming up. Just a hell of a play by a hell of a coach."
  • Lakers Have Magic on Defensive
    Sean Deveney of The Baseline asserts that it was the Lakers' defense that allowed the team to win the game in overtime against the Magic. 

  • A Career-Defining Moment, Missed
    Henry Abbott of TrueHoop elaborates on how Courtney Lee had a chance to make a once-in-a-lifetime shot. 

  • Orlando's Heavy Rotation
    Kevin Arnovitz of TrueHoop analyzes the Magic's rotation in the NBA Finals.

    Stan Van Gundy entered the NBA Finals with a full menu of options at point guard, shooting guard, and small forward. With Jameer Nelson's return from injury, Van Gundy now has, count 'em, four legitimate options at the point: Rafer Alston, Hedo Turkoglu, Anthony Johnson, and Nelson. On the wings, Van Gundy can mix and match Turkoglu with Courtney Lee, Mickael Pietrus, and J.J. Redick. Rashard Lewis even saw some time at the three Sunday night when Van Gundy went with his twin tower offense.

    Van Gundy has an embarrassment of riches, and that flexibility has been one of the Magic's principal strengths throughout the playoffs. In each series, he's calibrated his rotation based on matchups. When Lee returned to action in Game 3 of the Boston series, for instance, Van Gundy went with Redick on Ray Allen, preferring to hold Lee back to chase Eddie House. The decision seemed unorthodox at the time, but like most of Van Gundy's decisions this postseason, it panned out. Allen never got going, and the Magic shut down House after he torched them in the first two games of the series.

    The Magic's stacked, versatile roster has been a blessing for Van Gundy -- but two games into the Finals, it's proving to be a curse. [...]

    Truth be told, an inch or two here and there could've given the Magic the win, and Van Gundy might have been heralded a genius for his tactics. There are sensible arguments on the pro and con sides of all of these issues. 
  • Lakers survive
    Chris Sheridan of ESPN.com looks back at the final play in regulation.
    NBA supervisor of officials Bernie Fryer told ESPN.com that if Gasol's hand had shaken the basket, caused the stanchion to move or touched the rim while the ball was on the rim, the correct call would have been goaltending.

    But since none of those things happened, according to Fryer, "It was a cut-and-dried no-call." [...] Turkoglu's pass looked perfect, hitting Lee in flight after a pick had freed him from Bryant's defense. But Lee was sailing slightly beyond the backboard as he caught the ball, and in his attempt to get the ball back to the basket, he spun it a little too hard off the backboard. The ball banged off the rim right to Howard, who jumped, caught it and dunked it, but after the buzzer. No basket, and the game went into overtime. The Magic came up short in OT, falling behind 2-0 in the NBA Finals.

    "I was just trying to catch the ball and put it in," Lee said. "I don't know if I was wide open or not. I was just looking at the ball when it was in the air and was trying to go get it and complete the play.

    "You sit and groan about it just for that moment, but you still have another five minutes to go out there and play. We didn't lose the game just because I missed the layup."
  • Courtney Lee's Magic moment falls shot as Lakers lead Finals 2-0
    Ian Thomsen of Sports Illustrated highlights the key moments in Game 2.
  • Magic issues, Odom's value, Kobe's shooting
    Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated provides three observations from yesterday's matchup.
  • Magic moment ends with miss
    Johnny Ludden of Yahoo! Sports chimes on in the game.
    The Magic’s chances at winning these Finals might be done, too. They jetted home with the comfort of knowing the next three games will be played in Orlando, but history offers no comfort: Of the past 12 teams to lose Games 1 and 2 of the Finals on the road, only one has rallied to win the series.

    The Magic have proven their resilience time and again during these playoffs. They trailed against the Philadelphia 76ers in the first round. They trailed the Boston Celtics in the second. They weathered LeBron James’ miracle shot in the East finals.

    But down 2-0, against these Lakers? That might be asking too much, especially when the Magic also know they wasted a terrific chance to even the series.
  • Behind the Box Score, where the Magic wouldn't go away
    Kelly Dwyer of Ball Don't Lie offers his thoughts.
    Part of this can be blamed on, "hey, they're playing a great team; things will go up and down." But we've also seen the Magic go long stretches without turning the ball over, without Los Angeles' defensive effort waning. We've seen them destroy the Lakers on the boards. Assuming the Lakers are the constant, here, which we think is the case, the gulf in greatness to great-less falls on the Magic.

    Not that Stan Van Gundy isn't trying to change the shape of things. He went most of the fourth quarter and a good chunk of overtime with no point guard, which seems odd on the surface but barely registers overall when you consider the fact that Derek Fisher has essentially become a wing player (even Trevor Ariza spends more time up top on offense and defense) in this series, and Hedo Turkoglu does most of the offensive initiation for the Magic.

    So why force-feed minutes to players who weren't shooting well? As Van Gundy mentioned after the game, the Lakers weren't even guarding Rafer Alston, who missed seven of eight shots, while Jameer Nelson (1-3 shooting, 2-4 free throws) just isn't there yet.

    The replacements weren't much better in terms of shooting, as J.J. Redick(notes) missed seven of nine shots, but it was clear that Derek Fisher did have to stick with Redick in a way that helped Orlando's offense, even as he was missing shots. Though Alston tried, Fisher didn't stick with him. Didn't have to.

    Dwyer echoes my sentiments about the guard play for the Magic (which I stated numerous times in the game thread yesterday).

  • Adonal Foyle on Courtney Lee
    Instead of bashing Courtney Lee, how about praising the kid?

    Courtney Lee is an unusuable NBA rookie. Very few late first-round picks start. Fewer still play in the NBA Finals. Almost none do both.

    Lee is a 40% 3-point shooter, efficient in transition and going to the hole. He seldom turns the ball over. And on defense, he often gets very tough assignments, including plenty of time guarding the likes of LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. 
  • L.A. HELD HOMECOURT; LET’S DO THE SAME
    Dwight Howard posts on his official blog, today.

    Tough, tough loss last night cause we really thought we let the Lakers off the hook and should have won that game. It was there for us so many times, but we couldn’t grab it because we didn’t execute and turned the ball over too many times. [...]

    My boy C-Lee had a layup right at the rim, but just missed it. That was a tough blow for us, but it shouldn’t have ever come down to that. We don’t turn the ball over as much as we did and we don’t even need the lob play there in that situation.
  • We Might Have to Admit the West Is Still Better
    Bethlehem Shoals of The Baseline delves on the topic of East v. West.

    There was no question that Orlando earned this Finals trip fair and square. Give or take a little LeBron, they were the toast of the East once they got healthy and generally playoff-oriented (which explains those Boston and Philly problems). And then, give or take a little LeBron, they trounced Cleveland, who on record alone was the best team in the entire NBA. Celtics, we love you, but even when KG was around, you weren't Boston, and you had problems with Orlando. [...]

    But we have to be realistic here. The logic that our belief in the East's improvement -- or at least its consolidation up top -- had rested upon was spotty at best. When it comes down to it, conference imbalance had been going on for years. And this series might be a cruel reminder that all we thought was progress was, in fact, a step backward. Change, as Marx and Obama always told us, must begin from the bottom and work its way up. So it must be in the East, if things are really ever going to change.
  • So Close
    UPDATE: Bradford Doolittle of Basketball Prospectus tosses in his analysis.

    Orlando actually shot the ball much better in the first half than it did in its epic brickfest in Game One. The problem was Orlando just couldn't take care of the ball. The Magic committed 20 turnovers in the game and the vast majority of those miscues involved Dwight Howard. Howard committed seven turnovers, many of them as he tried to pass out of double teams. Several other turnovers came as Orlando tried to force entry passes into Howard to initiate its offense. The Lakers were determined to prevent that from happening. Pau Gasol was effective at poking the ball loose from Howard with his Plasticman arms while Bryant, Derek Fisher and Lamar Odom caused havoc with their double teams. The two-man game with Howard picking high for Turkoglu was totally ineffective, with L.A. usually blitzing Turkoglu and the Lakers' weak-side defenders sagging to prevent Howard from rolling to the basket. The Magic was slow to reverse the ball and wasn't getting the open looks to which it is accustomed.

    Still, the Magic could have put the game away had they shot better from the foul line. Orlando was 20-for-27, but missed five in a row during one crucial stretch of the fourth quarter. The Lakers, meanwhile, hit 14 straight free throws and went 24-for-28 for the game. The difference is huge in a game that close and it's a heck of a reason to lose a game in the NBA Finals.
  • Magic Blog: David Steele

    UPDATE 2: David Steele discusses Game 2. 

  • Boxscore Breakdown: Finals, Game 2
    UPDATE 3: Neil Paine of Basketball-Reference breaks down the box score for Game 2 and takes a look at the advanced statistics. 

  • Orlando Magic backcourt continues to struggle
    UPDATE 4: John Hollinger of ESPN.com believes that the backcourt play for Orlando may cost them a championship.

    It's par for the course for these Finals so far. Through two games, the one constant has been the inability of Orlando's guards to make shots, and it appears it may cost them a championship.

    Orlando's five guards -- Lee, Rafer Alston, Jameer Nelson, J.J. Redick and Mickael Pietrus -- shot only 6-for-26 from the floor on Sunday, including 1-for-12 in their alleged specialty of 3-point shooting. This was the same group that went 14-for-43 in Game 1's blowout defeat; in total, the five players who manned the two guard spots head home to Orlando shooting a composite 29 percent for the series.

    I would agree with Hollinger. The Magic backcourt has been bad in the NBA Finals, so far, and it's been a fatal blow for a team who expected to have an advantage at the point guard spot coming into the series. 

  • The World of What Might Have Been
    UPDATE 5: Rob Mahoney of Hardwood Paroxysm shares his thoughts.

    What I do know is this: if I’m given one play and one clipboard with the fate of the universe hanging in the balance, Stan Van Gundy might get the call.  He’s demanding, he’s sometimes petty or childish, and he’s hardly charismatic, but he may be the most talented in-game coach we have in the league today.  If Lee hits that layup, today would be SVG Appreciation Day, and since he didn’t, I’m here to make it just that anyway. [...]

    Some are of the opinion that the title is already won, and they’re entitled. But Orlando showed in Game 2 that they have the ability to recover after being beaten. If they can swipe Game 3 from behind, this may yet be a series worth noting. The Magic still have a lot to work with for a team down 0-2, and some of the credit for that goes to Hedo and his save. The fact that Orlando drowned in its cess pool of turnovers would be all that remains of a pretty fun Magic team. But they’re alive (though not well) because of the fight they showed in Game 2. It would be misguided to say that what we saw last night was the beginning of a real push for the Magic, but it was definitely a step up from the romp in Game 1. It’s an odd air surrounding a team that almost certainly coughed up a win, which is probably fitting for a Magic team that is nothing if not odd.
  • Magic Turnovers and Poor Transition Defense Doom Them in Game 2
    UPDATE 6: Coach Bruchu notes what hurt Orlando in the loss yesterday.

  • For a Lakers perspective on Game 2, check out Forum Blue And Gold, Lakers Blog, Silver Screen and Roll.

Make sure to check out this post every few hours for updates.

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Seems like the players and SVG believe the missed lay-up was a lot easier than most on here.

You did leave out one quote from C.Lee:

“If I make the play,” Courtney Lee said, “it’s over.”

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the missed lay-up was very makeable

C. Lee miss-timed his jump. He jump out instead of up and he still had a great look. It was a pretty routine lay-up. It was a great pass. He just blew it. I just hope he doesn’t let it eat him up. If you call it a lay-up the degree of difficulty isn’t that high. The circumstances were high, but the difficulty of the shot was not.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's be sure about the "goatend"

from all angles, while Gasol appears to touch the rim, he does NOT move the rim, backboard, or stanchion with his touching. According to NBA rules, unless one of those above things happens, or if a player touches the ball through the hoop, it’s NOT a goaltending call.

Now, let’s all remember Dwight Howard’s BLATANT goaltend on the Gasol reverse dunk in the first half. Once done with that, remove foot from mouth, then debate.

by tandur on Jun 8, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I do love.

How Phil complians about moving screens and all the sudden every time the magic run a high screen it is a foul call. Come on..

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The initial contact by Dwight is fine.

It’s when he thrusts out his outside hip (closes to the defensive player) that constitutes a moving pick. He was only called on it once on Howard (I think there was another call on Gorat, but his movement was different), so I’m not sure how you conclude it was every time.

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget they got Shard too.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

calls I love

The Hedo offensive foul for pushing off.
Kobe falls on his own foul
Fisher falls on his own foul.
Kobe runs in to Peitrus foul.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From your perspective.

1. Hedo cleared out with his forearm and hand. That’s an offensive foul.
2. Hedo pushed him up top. If he doesn’t touch him, you are right, there is no foul.
3. Peaches pushed him as they were going after the ball.
4. Should have been a no call. I wasn’t sure what the contact was.

Now we could conduct the same exercise on the other side of the ball, but it is frankly pointless. The refs ALWAYS blow some calls or see phantom calls. It’s part of the game.

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

funny

So easy to sound enlightened when your team is up 2-0.

Magic should be tied 1-1 despite all of the calls; we have no one to blame, but ourselves.

I still believe the calls in game 2 were extremely one sided.

Time for Orlando to make HISTORY!!

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Enough bickering about the freakin' goaltending call.

The Magic lost. The Lakers won. That’s it .. sheesh.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hello Pot.

I just don’t agree with your reading of the rules. I’ve conceded points where I agreed.

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's cool, bud.

.. just a heat of the moment-type discussion. It happens.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I only agree with 1 and 4

Fisher and Kobe straight up tripped, stay on your damn feet.

We didn't lose the games, we just ran out of time -- Bobby Layne

by detpistons3 on Jun 8, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well . . .

You are entitled to your opinion. I don’t think either play was decisive in the grand scheme of things. But as you noted, my squad is up 2-0, so I obviously have a different perspective on things.

Game 3 is going to be a barn burner. A must win for Orlando and I’m sure the crowd is going to be insane.

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah. This discussion has been butchered to death.

.. everyone has stated their opinion on the matters. Let’s just move on.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what a block by Hedo

*bursts into tears *

We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors.

by TheGiantSquid on Jun 8, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hedo is better than Dirk Nowitzki

Discuss.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jun 8, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ummm..

Not even in the same ball game.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dirk is way better then Hedo.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not on defense, for sure

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jun 8, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nope

but Dirk is a top 5 scorer. He is much more consistent then Hedo and better rebounder.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take Hedo for the playoffs

Come playoff time, Dirk may score a lot, but he will just kill your team on the defensive end of the court.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jun 8, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Hedo

And seeing as how he’s a free agent and my Pistons have a boatload of money, I may come to like him even more. But, he doesn’t compare to Dirk, even in the clutch. He only recently broke out into a great player, whereas Dirk has been great throughout his career. THe greatest thing about Dirk is his versatility, his ability to bang with Tim Duncan and shoot threes with Ray Allen is invaluable. Every opponent has to worry about how they’ll defend dirk in the post and on the perimeter. He causes matchup problems for every PF/C (Except Rasheed Wallace, and possibly Tim Duncan)

We didn't lose the games, we just ran out of time -- Bobby Layne

by detpistons3 on Jun 8, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just put a small forward on him

And you can slow him down a LOT.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jun 8, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rotflmao

Not even in the same league. Was Hedo even an All Star this year?? He can’t even bypass Nelson or Lewis as the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team!

When Hedo goes for 40 on any given night, simply because he can, we can discuss this. At best, Hedo is a decent 2nd or 3rd wheel.

Hedo always has been, since his Kings days, and always will be, a hack of a European player. When it’s all said and done, he’d be lucky to be considered as a Top 20 European NBA player of all time, and that’d be only due to the lack of overall quality numbers from the region.

Even know, injuries and all, I’d still give Peja Stojakovic the nod as a better player.

by tandur on Jun 8, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's a wash between Hedo and Peja, with maybe a slight tip to the latter player.

They both do certain things better than the other. Both are fine players in their own right.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

give me Hedo

Peja is injure prone and disappears in the playoffs.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the great summary

Brutal loss for the Magic! But they gotta feel good about their chances at home after coming so close in Game 2. Nothing to do but play one game at a time.

by lazNirv on Jun 8, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No problem.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This HAS to be the next "Create-A-Caption"

Ohh the possibilities!

We didn't lose the games, we just ran out of time -- Bobby Layne

by detpistons3 on Jun 8, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually a very sweet move by Pau on this play.

But yes, I could see some very funny captions for this one.

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dwight attempts to blow Gasol's garlic breath back in his face

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jun 8, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like Dwight is blowing Pau a kiss.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares about Goal tending and the officiating...

Unfortunately some calls have a huge impact on games/series. But if Howard could hit his free throws and the Lakers would not be throwing up bricks in game 2 then it should not come down to the officiating. This is the Finals and the better team will win. Regardless. On the Orlando side more blame needs to be put on Howard for not being able to hit free throws and on the Lakers side someone needs to tell Phil to stop double teaming by using LO and leaving Rashard Lewis open.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Jun 8, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not hitting his free-throws? Dwight went 7-9 from the line.

His problem was turnovers, not free-throws.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. Agreed.

.. too many times the Lakers forced deflections and turnovers by swiping at the ball.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Turnovers...freethrows ...

it still has nothing to do with goal-tending and the officiating.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Jun 8, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares?

The game is over and done with.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then why did you create a day after thread???

Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny

by pslakerfan on Jun 8, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because I've done so for .. the past, I don't know, couple weeks.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess my point is.............

And I am not trying to get banned, or deleted, or whatever, but you seem really, really quick to silence every discussion. Of course the game is over, but you know who cares. Everyone. That is why we are here. I understand dealing with situations that get out of hand, but I just think you are trying hard to keep every discussion from turning into anything resembling an argument.

Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny

by pslakerfan on Jun 9, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really. I'm trying to keep the discussion from ..

.. getting into cursing and name calling (which it’s gotten to that point a few times). I’ve said this countless times and I’ll say it again, even though I hate repeating myself. We welcome open-ended discussion, as long as the arguments are articulate and civil .. once that line is crossed, that’s where we have to draw the line.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 9, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is compleltely off topic from what everyone else is talking about...

But I find the article ridiculous saying this series has any impact on whether the East or West is better.

An Eastern Conference Team won the title in 04, 06 and 08 and I don’t think anyone was claiming the East was better. The East has almost pulled even with the West. IMO, the top 3 teams in the East were better than the top 3 in the West. Also, one thing that gets overlooked is the West had so many terrible teams. 6 of the 7 teams w/30 or fewer wins came from the West. So yeah you have a team like Chicago (41-41) or Detroit (39-43) make the playoffs in th East but that’s because they don’t have as many bottom feeders to beef up their record against.

Completely off topic I know, but I just think this Western Conference superiority thing is a little out of hand.

by Lee for three on Jun 8, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I dunno know.

Phoenix would have been the 4 seed in the East, but didn’t make the playoffs in the West. Which means 5 of the 8 playoff teams in the East would have been sitting at home. Frankly, I think the NBA needs to re-seed after the final regular season game, based on record. We would have had Cleveland and LA as 1 and 2 seeds followed by Boston, Orlando, Denver, San Antonio, Houston, Portland, Dallas, New Orleans, Utah, Atlanta, Miami and Philadelphia. Would have made for a much more interesting playoffs if you ask me.

Cleveland-Philadelphia
LA-Miami
Boston-Atlanta
Orlando-Utah
Denver-New Orleans (Was 2-7 in West)
San Antonio-Dallas (Was 3-6 in West)
Houston-Portland (Was 4-5 in West)

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correction.

Phoenix would have been the 5th seed in the East and 4 of the 8 would not have made the playoffs. Everything else should be correct (regarding seeding).

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think there's a lot of gray area.

There were more good teams in the West, but there were also a lot more bad teams. Yeah Phoenix finished with 46 wins…they also played in a division the two worst teams in the league. I think the records are a little skewed b/c those middle of the pack teams in the West got to feast on terrible teams while there was more balance in the East. The West overall is still slightly better…but I don’t think there is really a huge difference.

As far as your playoff format, I do think it could have made things more interesting (especially Kobe-Wade in round 1). Ultimately I don’t think it would have made much of a difference. The thing I like about the best-of-seven format is that the best teams usually advance.

by Lee for three on Jun 8, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The worse records from teams 2-9 in the West come from having to play each other, whereas, the good records from 1-3 in the east come from having to play weaker teams 4-15 in the east.

Put Atlanta in the West. They don’t make the playoffs due to having to play harder teams 1-9 rather than play joke teams 4-15 in the east. Cavaliers and Celtics were overrated teams as they got many of their wins against teams 4-15 in the east who are visibly inferior. Whereas west teams had to slug it out from 1-9.

by yao_the_great on Jun 9, 2009 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The West was more bottom-heavy, if that makes any sense.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True,

But the bottom heavy only account for a few of the easy wins. Ultimately if you look at the legitimacy of the majority of the teams, the teams 1-9 are legit in the west. I would say in the East teams 1-3 are legit. The suns are better than the Hawks any day (they got swept by the one man lebron show). So putting that in perspective, I think Blazers, Rockets, Nuggets, Spurs, Mavs, Hornets, all would have Orlando’s record had they played in the east.

by yao_the_great on Jun 9, 2009 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't disagree.

I was just making an observation, not an assertion.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 9, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

bad idea

if you’re going to reseed based on overall records for the entire league, then you must also do away with conferences and divisions, and also redo the entire schedule.

Currently, I’m not happy with the current schedule format, with 4 games against division and conference opponents, and 1-3 games against out-of-conference opponents. I would prefer to see 6-8 games against your division rivals. The emphasis on division rivalries is not strong enough in the NBA, as it is in the NFL. With more emphasis on division rivalries, winning the division becomes more important to other players, as it not only gives players bragging rights, but also a guaranteed Top 4 seed. It’s the reward for being the best in your region. The same goes for earning seeds 1-8 overall in a conference. You were the best teams in that region, and you get a reward for your efforts.

Phoenix missing the playoffs compared to teams like Philadelphia, Chicago, or Detroit, while annoying, is more the Suns fault than the NBA’s fault. The Suns knew what kind of competition they faced in their conference, and their inability to make the playoff roster is due to their own failings as a team and organization.

by tandur on Jun 8, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a murky issue. You're right .. there would need to be a complete overhaul of the system.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair point.

As for Phoenix missing the playoffs, I wasn’t suggesting that it was someone else’s fault other than the organization. Just that the West Top 8 were overall better than the East’s Top 8 (at least based on win percentages). Obviously a more thorough statistical analysis may prove my simplistic analysis faulty, but as a lay-fan, it works for me.

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope Magic fans aren't buying Bill Simmon's crap

He’s an entertaining writer, but his stuff is so biased, he makes Bill O’Reilly look objective.

He points out all the calls that the Lakers benefited from in exquisite detail, and yet not even a cursory mention of Dwight Howard sticking his hand through the ring to block Gasol’s shot, or that Hedo was the last to touch the ball on one of the last possessions in OT (they said it went off Kobe’s thight), or any of the questionable calls on Bynum. I’m personally not even complaining about those calls, but if you’re going to mention the officiating, it’d be best to report both sides of the story. Then again, Simmons isn’t a reporter, he’s an entertainer. And he does succeed in entertaining.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jun 8, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I had the same reaction.

He’s a Celtics fan and as such he hates all things Lakers.

by MambaFan on Jun 8, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anybody in the community takes him seriously.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take on Simmons

I actually think he’s really good when he takes off his homer cap. His articles on the NBA are some of my favorite reads. However most of his columns are Boston-centric or Boston-baised, which makes him difficult to put up with sometime.

by Lee for three on Jun 8, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simmons is one of the bright spots of ESPN

his whole gig is to be the comic-relief on the network, if you folks take him seriously, you need to lighten up.

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 8, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easy to say, but......

If he was a die-hard Magic hater his relief wouldn’t be so comic. Having said that, I agree with Lee, he is good when he takes off his homer cap. Unfortunately he can’t come to grips with the fact that people like his writing, but not what he has to say.

Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny

by pslakerfan on Jun 9, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why no Anthony Johnson?

I hate how the Nelson experiment has thrown our team off. SVG will always be questioned about it. But why not play AJ with how bad Alston has been playing?
He is a gutsy vet and has had big moments in these playoffs. I feel he is more clutch than Alston and can make all the shots especially at the basket unlike Rafer"can’t finish"Alston. I’m not saying play him starter minutes but why not try and let him play his role and see. SVG said he had exhausted all options. Has he played AJ? Is that not an option? The man looks hurt on the bench and I feel if he is given the chance the “old head” will come out dunking!

by O-Town MagiCane on Jun 8, 2009 7:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Game 2 for sure..

Problem is Raf plays very well at home, but if he starts to struggle I agree AJ should get his minutes. AJ would have knocked down some of those open looks. Raf is cold and hesitant to shoot.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 8, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't be surprised to see if he got minutes in Game 3.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 8, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm certain Dad will get some PT in Game 3.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 9, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

Skip has crossed the line, it is bad enough he hasn’t chipped in. He is now hurting the team. If you can’t knock down an open look, convert a lay-up, and you aren’t distributing to your teammates-What are you doing?

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Jun 9, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good question.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on Jun 9, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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